Recently, there has been some discussion on Lovefraud about the relationship between antisocial behavior and sociopathy as a disorder. It has been argued that antisocial behaviors are learned by some people and so not all people who are antisocial are sociopaths. The idea is that behavior that is learned may not reflect a person’s underlying personality, and can therefore be unlearned. Many people also believe that personality features such as low empathy indicate sociopathy more than does antisocial behavior.
The above issues are important because if pervasive antisocial behavior is reflective of a deeply rooted personality profile as opposed to “social learning” then there are many more “sociopaths” than if there are a large number of antisocials who are really nice loving people underneath all that nasty behavior.
In the past three months there also has been discussion here about sex differences in violent and antisocial tendencies. These two discussions often become one discussion because there are some who believe our society teaches males to be violent and antisocial and that again “social learning” (as opposed to personality features) accounts for sex differences in antisocial behavior.
I am teaching a university course in “The Psychology of Gender” this semester. Due to the lack of good unbiased texts for the class, I am teaching from original research papers. In that context I discovered one of the most amazing books I have ever read. That book is Sex Differences in Antisocial Behavior, by Dr. Terrie Moffitt and colleagues. Anyone who wants to understand sociopaths/psychopaths should read that book. It is well worth the $20.00 – $25.00 price.
The book is not an opinion driven textbook. It is a report of years of very thorough research — The Dunedin multidisciplinary health and development study which prospectively followed about 1500 men and women born between 4/1/1972 and 3/31/1973 in Dunedin, a provincial capital city on New Zealand’s South Island. The book covers the first 21 years of their lives. These individuals have been studied at age 32 and that data is reported in other sources. I obtained all those other sources and will share them with you.
The study collected comprehensive health data on all subjects; antisocial behavior was just one aspect of the research. They collected information every year or two by interviewing parents and teachers; and as the subjects got old enough they completed self-reports and brought friends and romantic partners in for interview. The researchers also accessed government and school records. The assessment tools used were well established valid instruments. They answered the following questions which also have implications for the etiology of antisocial behavior (ASB):
• Do males show increased ASB in all circumstances and in every antisocial activity?
• Are there sex differences in the developmental course of antisocial behavior?
• What is responsible for observed sex differences?
• Does ASB have different consequences for men and women?
In the next few weeks I will summarize and discuss their results in the context of other recent research. If we accept the 1 percent figure for PCL-R psychopathy in their population, we would expect about 15 psychopaths. Antisocial personality disorder has about a 4 percent prevalence rate so we would expect 60 sociopaths based on that figure. Keep that in mind as I go through the findings.
To give you an idea of this comprehensive study here is an outline of the assessments made:
• Teacher reports done at 5, 7, 9, 11 and 13 (Rutter Child Scale)
• Self-reports were done at ages 11, 13, 15, 18, 21 (items included age appropriate antisocial and illegal acts).
• At ages 18 and 21 Study members were asked to nominate a friend or family member who knew them well to answer 4 items (problems with aggression, doing things against the law, alcohol, drug use).
Results
• The smallest sex difference was seen at age 15.
• Sex effect sizes ranged from d=.15 to d=.48 and indicated a small to moderate sex difference.
• The largest age difference in antisocial behavior was at age 21.
• Official records revealed a significant difference between males and females for every variable examined.
• Drug and alcohol use was most similar, but was still more common in males.
When they pooled the data on antisocial behavior they got results similar to those reported by psychopathy researchers including Dr. Robert Hare. These researchers say that “psychopaths” are responsible for a disproportionate amount of violent and property crime in our society. In the Dunedin study most juveniles had broken the law but only a small number of juveniles were responsible for the majority of offending for both males and females. 50% of 64,062 “offenses” in 21 y/o males were reported by only 41 men (8%). 50% of the 23,613 offenses in women were reported by only 27 women (6%). The most active females were less prolific than their male counterparts.
There are several take-home messages given by the researchers:
• Males’ antisocial behavior is more often serious and is more likely to be sanctioned.
• Throughout the first two decades of life males consistently emerge as more antisocial than females with two exceptions.
• Males and females are most similar at age 15.
• Males and females are most similar in alcohol and drug use patterns.
To summarize then the Dunedin study identified a group of antisocial males and females whose pattern of antisocial behavior, beginning early in life resembles that of “psychopaths.” Most psychopathy researchers say that the disorder begins in childhood. The number of antisocial males and females identified by the researchers is very close to the number predicted, but was larger than expected. The researchers also collected personality profiles of all participants, data on intimate partner violence perpetration and data on whether subjects qualified for the diagnosis of conduct disorder. Kids with conduct disorder are considered to be “psychopaths in the making.” I will share those results with you in the next weeks.
Dear Meg,
The trick is to focus on what you STILL HAVE and not what you have lost. After my husband’s death I was a basket case. I focused on the loss of not only my husband by my “life” with him as well. We were so happy and I had everything in the world I wanted, but when he died, I lost that—-and I fell apart thinking of the LOSS. I didn’t focus at all on what I still had. Ditto with the P-attack, I lost it ALL, even had to leave my home with no assurance I would be able to move back here for YEARS. I even had to leave Fat and Hairy behind because I couldn’t care for them after I ran, no place to put them and no money to buy or rent one.
The time I was gone from here was so devestating and I was dependent on someone else to let me park my RV on their land. I know that feeling of not being able to totally take care of yourself and being responsible for yourself is very anxiety producing. BUT YOU CAN get out of this spot, it will just take time, like it did for me. Hang in there sweetie. You are stronger than you know. And, you STILL HAVE YOU!!!!!
akitameg…we’re all praying you get “through” this and beyond…stronger. The therapy and medication will help.
I look forward to the time when you sing again…with strength, peace, and joy! You’re not alone. God bless you.
And Oxy and learnEDthelesson, too.
Meg – Your job, your reputation, your singing skills, they aren’t YOU, no more than your clothes are a part of your body. If your clothes are soiled, it’s time to clean them, mend them, or find some new clothes. You are worth something as a human being without all that. Once you get emotionally and physically healthier with the help of medication and therapy you’ll have more energy to devote to making those other things better too. Baby steps.
Midnight,
You are a smart cookie! Good analogy!!! So TRUE!!!
Thank you, Oxy.
thanks Midnight and Jim and Oxy and LoL
Baby steps. Really tiny baby steps….
learnthelesson,
I’m glad your mother has proved to have such beautiful qualities.
You all have been through so much hell with your P/N/S mates that I can barely imagine. I feel very lucky to have gotten rid of my P roommate so quickly even though he was still trying to get manipulate me into his bed.
One of the most disturbing things that happened when he still lived with me was my attempt to extricate myself from the push-pull emotional attachment he’d sucked me into. I still hadn’t slept with him and he was trying to make me jealous with other women. I called an old boyfriend, a guy who considered himself a master Pick Up Artist. I asked him if we could get together that Sunday and he told me that he was very busy going on so many dates that he just didn’t have time for me what with all of his dates and his busy life and did he mention he went on a lot of dates? But I could see him at a party if I wanted to be “friends”. Please don’t think that I am minimizing what you go through with these subhumans, but in my opinion you can’t reasonably expect a psychopath to displahy empathy, kindness and consideration. After all he is a psychopath.
Now, my ex is not a P and while perhaps a bit narcissistic never showed any signs of a personality disorder. However he CHOSE of his own free will to fashion his behavior with women after that of psychopaths! His favorite book is that psychopath training manual “The Art of Seduction”!
I now feel confident that I can (usually) spot a psychopath if I look hard enough but I’m worried that a man with enough empathy and emotion not to give off the “psychopath warning signs” but not enough to treat women humanely will slip by without my noticing. There’s a man at work who loves to flirt with all the girls, and since I love to flirt with all the boys you’d I’d usually be quite happy to flirt at the watercooler, but now I’m worried that he might be setting me up to fall in love to feed his ego or trawling for an affair. He’s far more functional and responsible than my P roommate ever was and seems like a decent guy but I’m paranoid.
Penelope,
They PRETEND to have empathy, they HAVE NONE. They learn the physical and verbal responses to “emotions” but they are incapa ble of feeling much besides glee and rage or anger.
Learning to spot the “red flags” is the key to being able to detect them and to hone your “P-dar” skills. I suggest that you read the back archives ARTICLES (leave the blogs on those articles for now) but go through thearchives and read them ALL. The thing is that KNOWLEDGE=POWER and the more you know about them and the signs they do give off, “red flags” we call them, the better able to spot them that you are.
First off one of the things is that when you first meet them they “love bomb” you—theyare soooooo good and too good tobe true. You think you have met your soul mate. Love opera? Well, guess what he does too. Love rodeo? Well guess what he does too. Love sex? Oh my gosh does he EVER love sex, and you are the sexiest woman he has ever met. He just can’t contain himself. YOU ARE PERFECT!
Then, when you are hooked, and not before, you start to see the feet of clay and you become “not quite so perfect” etc.
But no sense in me retyping all this stuff, you go back and read them all. The education you will get there will be PRICELESS, ABOVE PRICE!!!! More valuable than gold in a depression.
Penelope,
The gentle art of flirtation is one of life’s joys. Have a good time with the flirtation. The witty exchanges and kind humor are a time honored way of gaging whether the gentleman is fit company.
Don’t hurry it. If it goes nowhere, you’ve both had fun. If it eventually leads to a date, well that’s nice too. Flirtation should make you both feel good, and doesn’t have to go anywhere.
I enjoy flirting, although I find gentlemen of 70+ years are much better at it than the younger crowd!