Recently, there has been some discussion on Lovefraud about the relationship between antisocial behavior and sociopathy as a disorder. It has been argued that antisocial behaviors are learned by some people and so not all people who are antisocial are sociopaths. The idea is that behavior that is learned may not reflect a person’s underlying personality, and can therefore be unlearned. Many people also believe that personality features such as low empathy indicate sociopathy more than does antisocial behavior.
The above issues are important because if pervasive antisocial behavior is reflective of a deeply rooted personality profile as opposed to “social learning” then there are many more “sociopaths” than if there are a large number of antisocials who are really nice loving people underneath all that nasty behavior.
In the past three months there also has been discussion here about sex differences in violent and antisocial tendencies. These two discussions often become one discussion because there are some who believe our society teaches males to be violent and antisocial and that again “social learning” (as opposed to personality features) accounts for sex differences in antisocial behavior.
I am teaching a university course in “The Psychology of Gender” this semester. Due to the lack of good unbiased texts for the class, I am teaching from original research papers. In that context I discovered one of the most amazing books I have ever read. That book is Sex Differences in Antisocial Behavior, by Dr. Terrie Moffitt and colleagues. Anyone who wants to understand sociopaths/psychopaths should read that book. It is well worth the $20.00 – $25.00 price.
The book is not an opinion driven textbook. It is a report of years of very thorough research — The Dunedin multidisciplinary health and development study which prospectively followed about 1500 men and women born between 4/1/1972 and 3/31/1973 in Dunedin, a provincial capital city on New Zealand’s South Island. The book covers the first 21 years of their lives. These individuals have been studied at age 32 and that data is reported in other sources. I obtained all those other sources and will share them with you.
The study collected comprehensive health data on all subjects; antisocial behavior was just one aspect of the research. They collected information every year or two by interviewing parents and teachers; and as the subjects got old enough they completed self-reports and brought friends and romantic partners in for interview. The researchers also accessed government and school records. The assessment tools used were well established valid instruments. They answered the following questions which also have implications for the etiology of antisocial behavior (ASB):
• Do males show increased ASB in all circumstances and in every antisocial activity?
• Are there sex differences in the developmental course of antisocial behavior?
• What is responsible for observed sex differences?
• Does ASB have different consequences for men and women?
In the next few weeks I will summarize and discuss their results in the context of other recent research. If we accept the 1 percent figure for PCL-R psychopathy in their population, we would expect about 15 psychopaths. Antisocial personality disorder has about a 4 percent prevalence rate so we would expect 60 sociopaths based on that figure. Keep that in mind as I go through the findings.
To give you an idea of this comprehensive study here is an outline of the assessments made:
• Teacher reports done at 5, 7, 9, 11 and 13 (Rutter Child Scale)
• Self-reports were done at ages 11, 13, 15, 18, 21 (items included age appropriate antisocial and illegal acts).
• At ages 18 and 21 Study members were asked to nominate a friend or family member who knew them well to answer 4 items (problems with aggression, doing things against the law, alcohol, drug use).
Results
• The smallest sex difference was seen at age 15.
• Sex effect sizes ranged from d=.15 to d=.48 and indicated a small to moderate sex difference.
• The largest age difference in antisocial behavior was at age 21.
• Official records revealed a significant difference between males and females for every variable examined.
• Drug and alcohol use was most similar, but was still more common in males.
When they pooled the data on antisocial behavior they got results similar to those reported by psychopathy researchers including Dr. Robert Hare. These researchers say that “psychopaths” are responsible for a disproportionate amount of violent and property crime in our society. In the Dunedin study most juveniles had broken the law but only a small number of juveniles were responsible for the majority of offending for both males and females. 50% of 64,062 “offenses” in 21 y/o males were reported by only 41 men (8%). 50% of the 23,613 offenses in women were reported by only 27 women (6%). The most active females were less prolific than their male counterparts.
There are several take-home messages given by the researchers:
• Males’ antisocial behavior is more often serious and is more likely to be sanctioned.
• Throughout the first two decades of life males consistently emerge as more antisocial than females with two exceptions.
• Males and females are most similar at age 15.
• Males and females are most similar in alcohol and drug use patterns.
To summarize then the Dunedin study identified a group of antisocial males and females whose pattern of antisocial behavior, beginning early in life resembles that of “psychopaths.” Most psychopathy researchers say that the disorder begins in childhood. The number of antisocial males and females identified by the researchers is very close to the number predicted, but was larger than expected. The researchers also collected personality profiles of all participants, data on intimate partner violence perpetration and data on whether subjects qualified for the diagnosis of conduct disorder. Kids with conduct disorder are considered to be “psychopaths in the making.” I will share those results with you in the next weeks.
BloggerT7165: Look at the Debbie LaFave case. She’s not doing prison time … and they should have locked her up and thrown away the key.
Another one that got off with the exuse of bi-polar … and the poor, poor pitiful me … look how beautiful I am saga …
Her interview is running on TV today … made me sick looking at her with her arrogant answers … then she makes a big ordeal about how she was frisked in jail … aka like a gonological exam … she kept the interviewer on this part of the process … so her audience could get fully aroused as she explained this so called violation?
My bet is the American public has seen the last of her antics … and her big ego.
Rune – None of my posts were directed at or in response to anything you have posted and my apologies if it seemed like they were. I have not thought of you as having any particular agenda and enjoy reading your posts. I am looking for the evidence based truth and scientific consensus on these issues and know that as more information becomes available over time that theories can and do change and so does my thoughts on the matter. DV and child sexual abuse used to be thought of as “rare” with even some researchers making statements in the past that it is 1 in a million when we now know the truth is much different. The same applies to female offenders and the knowledge base is slowly growing there as well.
Wini – Yep that is one example of many. Oprah had a case on her show on March 3rd about Danni and how it was the worst case of child abuse they had ever seen. Her abuse was so bad that she was diagnosed with “environmental autism,”. Yet her mother got zero prison time for doing this to her daughter. The whole story about Danni is here http://www.tampabay.com/features/humaninterest/article750838.ece
BloggerT: I am glad that we can ally on the side of questioning and researching and looking for truth.
I feel that so much of this is yet to be established as real “truth,” yet so much folklore is thrown up as being valid — we need to be very careful.
At the same time, I have been reluctant to come forward in support of my 6’2″ friend over his 5’0″ ex-wife, but I have seen the pointless manipulation first-hand. And I’m sure I know how the DV charge got filed in the first case — when he wasn’t present and it wasn’t even her house! A psyochopathic personality can manipulate just about anything into anything!
How do you feel about my suggestion of lumping all manipulative disorders together?
BloggerT: Was that the little girl that was treated as an infant? I saw that. I am so grateful for the parents who adopted her and work with her development. They are definitely ANGELS on earth.
Incredible story.
Yes, there was something wrong with the bio mother but Oprah didn’t get into that … maybe she will in a follow up story.
Peace.
Rune – I think that your suggestion puts me in mind of what Oxy has said in the past about them being Toxic. I also agree with you that we need to be very careful as to what the “truth” really is.
Some of my concerns run down the subjectivity and bias lines. What is anti-social to one person may not be seen as that to another or because of the context involved. For example killing other human beings. Usually this is seen as being very anti-social yet a combat soldier is purposely taught to do exactly that and they are not psychopathic or anti-social. Heck toss in a large dose of self-confidence and ego and you get a fighter pilot who chalks up the number of “kills” even. And you have to be that way to be a good fighter pilot yet they are not anti-social or psychopathic yet they still purposely kill other humans.
Things like that are some of the things I think about when I read research into this.
I personally have a hard time trying to convey the difference between the psychopathic inmate and the one that is not. I think of it to myself as the lack of empathy and indifference. Truly the psychopathic one acts like the horrific crime he committed is no different than he ate a ham sandwich. And the truly psychopathic one is psychopathic across time and circumstances where others may be awful to some but truly show feelings, empathy, remorse, caring, etc for others.
Wini – Yes I think that was the one. The original story from the paper got into and spoke with/interviewed the mother and is at the end of the article. Such a sad case and they talked about how she(danni) is just now starting to learn right from wrong.
Rune, I agree with you about lumping them all together but I bet it won’t happen. The symptoms and life styles over lap so much that it is difficult to draw a line around the ones that apply and the ones that don’t.
There IS a definite gender bias, even in assigning custody of the children to the mother unless the father can prove her unfit.
My college buddy got custody of his 2 sons from his P x-wife simply because she threw a fit in court and he also had his ducks in a row. The older son, who witnessed much of her antics, now that he is 18, does not see his mother voluntarily. The 13 year old spends ever other weekend with her.
The gender bias and the high cost of attorneys (no slam at you Matt) but your average person, especially if they have been financially victimized by the P, can’t afford adequate counsel’s fees. $150-300 per HOUR. There is little or no legal aid available for people who cannot afford it, so if you are divorcing a P, it is bound to be expensive because they cause so much trouble and are not willing to compromise.
I agree that there ARE women who participate in child sexual abuse, I KNOW ONE…uncharged, unconvicted…but guilty as sin! I know one more that I strongly suspect, again, no proof that would stand up in court.
My opinion, for what it is worth, is that ALL child sexual abusers are psychopaths. They are also impossible to “reform” as well, at least that is my understanding from reading Dr. Anna Salter’s works, and that is her opinion as well. She is one of the top recognized experts on pedophilia.
Her books will curl your hair! I almost wish I hadn’t read them, as this is a subect I am very passionate about, the molestation of children. It is also one of THE most difficult to prove in court and get prosecuted.
The women and men who cry “molestation” as a false accusation are just as bad, frankly, in m opinion. Lives are ruined and cannot be fixed by these false charges. You cannot UN-ring a bell. It will haunt these people forever. Personally, I don’t think anyone who was not personality disordered WOULD falsely accuse someone just for spite.
The take home lesson for us all is that ALL TOXIC people, whatever their clinical diagnosis, or even in the absence of one, should be avoided. RED FLAGS when observed, should be enough of a signal that we avoid that person from then on in. When dealing with any person who is TOXIC you would treat them with the caution you would handling a rattlesnake.
Psychopathic behavior is very “democratic” it does not discriminate by race, religion, country of origin, age, gender, sexual orientation, education or occupation, marital status, or socio-economic status. What could be more deocratic than that? LOL
BloggerT7165: And what is DCF’s responsibility in bringing the bio mom to justice?
It’s all about money. The courts don’t want to incarcerate this woman cause she’ll be a drain on the tax payers housing another inmate?
Who knows … but, it’s all about money … even your other blog about war etc. (war is the biggest money maker around) killing others … which all goes against what God wants for us.
Peace.
I am guessing that this is also the same Dr Moffit who completed this older study about domestic violence:
http://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/170018.pdf
One of their findings caused them to receive a lot of flak from some groups when they said:
About 27 percent of women and 34 percent of men among the Dunedin study members reported they had been physically abused by their partner. About 37 percent of women and 22 percent of men said they had perpetrated the violence.
O.K my friend BloggerT7165 you gave away the ending of the story!
Yes females perpetrate intimate partner violence as much if not more than men. This was a major finding of the Dunedin study. It is important to discuss the other correlates of IPV… tune in next week.
Biased reports on the part of anyone cannot explain any of the Dunedin findings. Remember their findings are based on multiple informants.
I agree with Dr. Moffit who asks, “Why is intimate partner violence the one exception to the men show more antisocial behavior rule?” (Though I think she is wrong because I think more women than men also perpetrate child abuse.)
Dr. Moffitt says (and I agree) that understanding what in the nature of intimate relationships is responsible for this will help to explain ASB in general.
My class and I came up with some answers…
The sex differences in ASB are moderate level differences. That means there is a boat load of very antisocial women out there. The research on sex differences is only important on a macro level. Understanding them will help us understand ASB. Sex differences do not really help us understand individuals in that saying, “He is antisocial because he is male,” is not valid any more than blaming antisociality on feminitiy is valid.