By | March 13, 2008 40 Comments

Signs of a sociopath in Eliot Spitzer

In 2002, Time Magazine named Eliot Spitzer, when he was New York State Attorney General, “Crusader of the Year,” due to his relentless pursuit of corporate crime. He went after the giants of Wall Street, extracting large fines for illegal and unethical behavior.

That’s why his very public downfall has drawn so much interest. And that’s why, now he’s resigned as governor of New York in disgrace, the stories of his aggressiveness, his bullying, and his apparent belief that the rules did not apply to him, are so widespread.

When I first heard that Spitzer was implicated in a prostitution ring, I figured that if anyone had the dirt, it would be the New York Post. How right I was. Frederic U. Dicker, the state editor for the Post, wrote about Spitzer in an article entitled, Bully gets his comeuppance. Here’s how it started:

“A disgraced Gov. Spitzer has been publicly and privately described for more than a year by New York’s top political figures as a ruthless, sanctimonious, amoral man whose righteous public persona was regularly contradicted by the realities of how he conducted his political life.”


But it got better. Eliot Spitzer described himself as a “f***ing steamroller” to Assembly Minority Leader James Tedisco. Dicker wrote that Tedesco—a muscular, one-time star college athlete—confided to an associate, “This guy scares me.”

The New York State Senate majority leader, Joseph Bruno, who had been targeted by Spitzer, was quoted as saying, “There’s something wrong with Spitzer, something wrong in his head.” Bruno also said, according to Dicker, “he’s a liar, he’s a hypocrite and he cannot ever be trusted.”

Then Dicker wrote, “Even friends described Spitzer as a man whose mood can swing in seconds, as a once pleasant cast undergoes a frightening Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde-like transformation after a perceived personal slight or policy disagreement.”

This was beginning to sound like all of the stories told on Lovefraud. Eliot Spitzer was beginning to sound like a sociopath.

Accusing the titans

Spitzer made his name prosecuting corruption on Wall Street. But as I continued to research Spitzer, I found a telling incident. In April, 2005, Eliot Spitzer went on ABC-TV’s Sunday morning news show and accused Maurice “Hank” Greenberg, the former chairman of AIG, an insurance giant, of misleading the public about the company’s dealings. “The evidence is overwhelming that these transactions were created for the purpose of deceiving the market. We call that fraud,” Spitzer said. “It is deceptive. It is wrong. It is illegal.”

Shortly after that, John C. Whitehead, the former chairman of Goldman Sachs, wrote an op/ed piece for the Wall Street Journal entitled Mr. Spitzer has gone too far.

“Something has gone seriously awry when a state attorney general can go on television and charge one of America’s best CEOs and most generous philanthropists with fraud before any charges have been brought, before the possible defendant has even had a chance to know what he personally is alleged to have done, and while the investigation is still under way,” he wrote. Whitehead accused Spitzer of damaging Greenberg’s reputation.

After reading the op-ed piece, Eliot Spitzer phoned John Whitehead. Whitehead was so shocked by what Spitzer said that he wrote it down: “Mr. Whitehead, it’s now a war between us and you’ve fired the first shot,” Spitzer said, according to Whitehead. “I will be coming after you. You will pay the price. This is only the beginning and you will pay dearly for what you have done. You will wish you had never written that letter.”

Whitehead was astounded. “No one had ever talked to me like that before,” he said. “It was a little scary.”

After his very public statements on television, Spitzer never brought criminal charges against Hank Greenberg.

What was he thinking?

When news of Spitzer and the prostitution scandal broke, the question all the pundits were asking was, why would Spitzer do such a thing? What was he thinking?

The Associated Press put out an article that asked exactly that question entitled, Why do smart people do dumb things?

A variety of psychologists and political analysts speculated: Does risky behavior precede the powerful job? Or does something about being in power cause the behavior?

“There’s the psychology of the exception,” said Leon Hoffman, former chairman of the American Psychoanalytic Association’s public information committee. “People in power sometimes feel they can do things that us, mere mortals, are forbidden to do. There’s a sense, as with adolescents, that ‘I won’t get caught.'”

The consensus in the article seemed to be that power corrupts. No one mentioned that the corrupt seek power, especially when they have a personality disorder.

Talking heads on Larry King

Just to see what else people were saying about Spitzer, I watched Larry King Live last night—something I don’t usually do. His guests included New York State Senator Joseph Bruno, Dina Matos McGreevey (wife of the New Jersey governor who also resigned in disgrace over a sex scandal), Dr. Drew Pinsky, a cop who busted prostitution rings, a TV newscaster, and a former sex worker.

I found the comments of Dr. Drew, as he is know, most interesting. Dr. Drew, who is an internist specializing in addiction medicine, hosts a radio talk show called Loveline, and is the host of Celebrity Rehab on VH1. Explaining how people are able to live double lives, hiding unbelievable things from the people closest to them, Dr. Drew said:

“What I see— and I think is the case here with Governor Spitzer—they tend to have difficulty experiencing other people’s feelings. They tend to be very aggressive and sometimes even ruthless, as he was in his case. And they really are out for their own sake.

“And when they get the power that they’re looking for, oftentimes they sort of feel special and excepted from the kinds of things that they’re expecting of everybody else and they minimize it, decide that it’s okay for them, and they just sort of rationalize it and off they go.”

Okay, he didn’t use the term sociopath, or psychopath, but that seemed to me to be what he was describing.

Then Larry King asked Dr. Drew, “What is the governor going through?”

“You know what, the guys that perpetrate things like this, the men oftentimes feel a deep sense of shame,” Dr. Drew answered. “And it is frightening to them to get anywhere near shame. And so they seem to us to be somewhat Teflon, like they’re skating past it.”

I wasn’t buying that one, at least in Spitzer’s case, but the show continued. Larry King asked Dina Matos McGreevey if she thought her husband, Jim McGreevey, loved her.

“No, I don’t think that he loved me. I think he married me for political expediency,” Matos said. “He wanted to be the governor and he believed that he needed a family in order to do that.”

“I’m not sure that’s true,” Dr. Drew replied. “Dina, you’re describing sexual addiction, sexual compulsion there. Those guys do love people to the best that they’re able.”

I’ve written about the McGreevey case before. In my opinion, Jim McGreevey is a sociopath. So I think Matos was right and Dr. Drew was wrong—Jim McGreevey never loved his wife.

After that, Larry King asked Dr. Drew, “Does the governor need help?”

“I think so,” Dr. Drew replied. “And that’s one of the things that concerns me. I don’t see the kind of contrition that I see from ”¦ someone that would really reach out and be willing to change. I just don’t see it.”

“But he needs help?” King repeated.

“In my opinion, all the things we have talked about tonight have treatment,” Dr. Drew said. “They work. I treat people like this all the time. They get a lot better.”

I started yelling at the television.

Psychopathic qualities

So did anyone get it? Did anyone think that Eliot Spitzer might have a personality disorder?

Yes— Frederic U. Dicker of the New York Post.

After he wrote the article I referenced above, Dicker was interviewed by Matt Lauer on the Today Show. Lauer asked him to comment on the strong feelings people had about Eliot Spitzer.

“There is sense on the part of a number of people, you have to put it psychological terms, of a psychopathic quality,” Dicker said. “He was a guy who couldn’t connect with people emotionally. He would say one thing to you, and a minute later, he would say just the opposite to someone else. He didn’t show emotion in dealing with people, he never had a personal connection, which is so vital in politics.”

So why did the reporter get it right when the medical professionals got it wrong? Quite simply, the reporter knew Eliot Spitzer, knew his personality and knew what he had done. The medical professionals were talking in generalities.

The key to identifying a sociopath, or psychopath, is in the person’s actual behavior. When you know what to look for, the behavioral clues are easy to spot.

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I join you in yelling at the TV. I am often yelling: Psycho! He’s a psycho. Yes, makes me look less than sane : )

I almost butted into a conversation I overheard today about him, but held my tongue. I think we’re afraid to label, because it’s as if we’re tainted just by knowing, thinking such a way.

It’s hard as hell for victims to get the conscienceless of psychopaths- imagine a “lay person?”

We all want meaning, to know the why, evil is verboten to even mention today. But they are just plan evil.

Spitzer’s chilling threats reminded me of my psycho. And that panel could have been anyone I ever tried to explain the psycho to. You know maybe it’s because he was a bedwetter….

As I read the first tidbits about Spitzer’s activities, the sociopath alarm bells I now have were clanging loudly. All the articles about why he did this, why men cheat, why powerful men cheat were ridiculous. He’s a personality disordered monster parading around in a sanctimonious man suit. I really feel for his wife. While not on the same scale, the xs’s crimes were printed in our paper for all to see mere days after I learned the horrific truth. (He was charged with sexually abusing one of my children.) I was still reeling and then had to try to piece my and my kids lives back together with the whole town watching. It was awful.

Ox Drover

I’m sure the problem with Spritzer is that his mother didn’t breast feed him and she served him way too many Twinkies, and was very harsh in potty training him, and probably he has ED and is ashamed to take “the blue pill” but whatever it is I am sure there is a cure for it and that the TV psychologist has just the thing to help Spritzer become a human being.—PUKE.


My ex was involved in politics at the local level for a few years and met Spitzer at a mutual friend’s house before he was govenor. My sociopath told me he couldn’t stand him and he was an a$$hole. What’s the saying?- It takes one to know one:)

I’ve been yelling at my screen too. Especially when O’Reilly said he thought Spitzer wanted to get caught because he’d have to be crazy to think he could get away with it.

Crazy or a sociopath!

Yes, as much as I had liked Spitzer, I have to say the terms being used to describe him by people who interacted with him really set off the P/S/N red flags.

That said, do a little research on Dicker. “Frederick U. Dicker, a New York Post reporter known for getting under the skin of leading politicians of both parties” also has a talk show that inflames more than it educates.

Google him. You’ll see he’s the print equivalent of Bill O’Reilly, who is also, based on his actions, very much a pathological. Dicker’s also been accused of shady ethics and using leverage to have Governor Pataki name his own girlfriend as a Commissioner.

Am beginning to think everyone with power and a pulpit is sociopathic.

While I see that Spitzer is definitely one, it appears his main accusors are big P’s, also.


Narcissists, politicians and sex.

I am not sure if my ExBf is a narcissist or not, he does, however, show some traits that make me think: he courted me for almost five months and when he finally asks for exclusivity, exactly one week after, he breaks up with me because I needed more time to see how serious he was before becoming sexually intimate with him.

During his courtship he was very nice and took me to nice places but I remember him telling me (via email, for our second date) that I could come to his house and stay for the nigh because he didn’t want to drive me back to my X city and then go back to his city.

Also, he once mentioned “I am so tired of the endless friendship thing, I want a relationship so this is why I got RID of a girl who didn’t want a relationship”

The word *Got Rid of Her* strike me in my stomach and I thought this is not right, where is HIS responsibility in all this *failed* relationships?

Also, he was like”emotion less, I don’t know”.like he couldn’t connect, like I didn’t feel connected; its not that he didn’t listen to me, but it’s just a *feeling*.

He did not ask for money but there were other things that made me think”

Also, after he asked me for exclusivity, he didn’t take his online-dating-profile down (, where we met), I asked him about it, if it was ok to have our profiles up and he replies “it’s just an online profile, like My Space but if you want to, I will put it down of course”. He did not; actually, he broke with me one week later after he asked me to be his GF.
He also mentioned that he has never had a relationship that lasted more than 4 moths or something like that and he is 37; it’s not like he is 18.

Also, he travels a lot, he likes to travel, he is always going somewhere and he doesn’t use his home address just in case he needs to move and not make a big deal about it, he only uses a *mailing address*; I don’t he is a cheater.

But ANW, the issue here is that he is a very *active* politician:

I don’t know if this is a pattern in democrats or not, I know nothing about politics but what happened with the Governor made me feel very sad because my ExBf, who is a democrat and a very *active* one (so active that if I say his name and where he volunteers for the democratic party, you will find him or know who I am talking about), courted me for a few months and after only a week of exclusivity, he dumped me because (we weren’t intimate):

“I am sorry but I cant wait anymore for sex, I have been waiting for some time now and I cant continue with this; also, I am afraid that you have no sexual experience and that it might not work between us, actually, its not going to work; I don’t know how someone can expect fidelity and have a relationship when there is no sexual relationship”

This, after 5 minutes of exclusivity, he dumped me because we weren’t sexual and because I wasn’t sexually experienced.
It was a very sad moment, you know”after asking me to be exclusive had plans, etc and then he dumps me.
Everybody thinks that he is so nice and yes he is, but the sexual issue bothers me so much, so I wonder if these guys are wired the same…

Well, this is what I told him:

“Don’t feel sorry, go get yourself a whore who will give you free sex after a few hours of dancing and drinking at a bar, let alone after a few months of hanging out”

No, not really, I did not say this; actually, I took my things and came back home. Crying and very upset because one week before I was asked to be his GF, he talked about maybe me staying with him one night at his place, said he missed me, etc.

As I said, I am not a democrat nor republican, nothing, actually, I don’t vote ( I am more than enough old to vote and I can vote, its just that I don’t vote); but then again, I question myself what has happened with the governor (sex issue), reminds me of my Democrat Ex and of course, Clinton (sex issue).

I can only imagine how the wife feels, she must be very, very sad.



You said, “The key to identifying a sociopath, or psychopath, is in the person’s actual behavior. When you know what to look for, the behavioral clues are easy to spot.”
I was just saying something like this to a friend.

I was saying that in a way, I feel more qualified to “diagnose” the Bad Man than to have someone else tell me a diagnosis because I was there to witness the subtleties of what he was doing.

You can have a person that has read a bunch of books about Sociopaths and then you can have the person that lived the ordeal. To one person, it’s just a concept… to the other, it’s a real thing.

And when I read the stories of others, I always pick up something.. a theme or a vibe or a behavior or a “CLUE”, and though the names and details and places are all different, it the behavior that I recognize.

It is so hard to capture in words what happened. And for the most part, I can’t remember the “reasons” he was mad most of the time or the “thing” I said or did that set him off… because there was so many accussations and so much confusion.

I think this is why this Blog is so important for all of us that are healing from a Sociopathic Encounter. We heal through telling our stories and through hearing other stories that are different and yet… they are just like our own.

Telling our “story” to someone that doesn’t understand is unsatisfying and humiliating. I can tell them a long list of what he did… but it is hard to describe the underlying behavior… I can’t even say what I am trying to say now.

Sociopaths are really so outside of most people’s undestanding… and yet, chances are they have brushed elbows with one. They are the unreasonable neighbor, the power hungry Boss that steals your ideas, the Road Rage guy in rush hour. All these types could be… one of them.


Dear Wine. There are many points in your story that struck me. He is not respecting the pace and form that you want to take the relationship. You have reservations about him, his behaviour is erratic, demanding committment – then dumping you. Like you I held off with sex, because I actually said to him ‘I wanted to be sure who I was mixing my energies with’! But he played it clever, was not sexual to me at all (strange for a young man) and I think he was just waiting for me to make the first move and falling into his web. Your exBF hasnt proved that he is worth the committment.

Listening carefully to the way he phrases words was something I did, which gave me alot of clues. For me the biggest statement you made was that you had a feeling that there was no connection. I had that very same feeling from a man who was telling me one thing, but pretending to love me, and I didnt feel that and realised he was pretending. Whether your exBF was a N or P, he was not acting in a genuine loving consistent way and probably best out of your life.


Grr! Sometimes these pop psychologists get me so mad! Eveybody wants to put their two cents in about what was wrong with him. I guess everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but when people with credentials make misjudgments about someone, everyone tends to believe them.
Aloha, it’s so true that reading about S’s in a book is NOT the same thing as experiencing it first hand. Some psychologists get it intellectually but they don’t GET IT because they have no experience identifying the signs and behavior and don’t really know what sociopaths are capable of.

And by the way, who the hell is Dr. Drew to tell McGreevey’s wife that her husband loved her? I would think she’d know a little better than him!

I think you probably sense what was wrong with your ex and that’s why you’re here. That sounds just like what happened to my friend who was targeted by a S. Although you must be hurt, you are lucky that he is not in your life anymore and didnt do as much damage as he could have. Just be wary if he tries to hook you again, they like to play with victims by stringing them along. No contact is the best policy.


Ariadne. 9 months into the relationship with my exN, totally confused and reaching out for help, I paid for relationship counselling on my own, giving full descriptions of what was going on. To be fair, they said he was not going to committ, but they as ‘professionals’ did not at all diagnose his personality disorder. After things ended with him, I went back to the organisation and argued that I had paid them for direction and that they had not accurately diagnosed matters. They argued that because he wasnt there, they could not have known. I told them that although he wasnt there, I had given them mountains of descriptive information, that had the counsellor known, she was have signalled to me more (much more) strongly, to get out ASAP!


That’s part of why I cannot abide with all the talking heads jumping on an issue…particularly when it’s not something they’ve been personally exposed to. Yes, I think Spitzer is an N or P based on my own (obviously limited and personal) experiences with them.

Really love the new topic about sexuality types and how they fit in to the equation. Indiscriminate sex, or sex with strangers, for pay or for free, always, always, always struck me as personally distasteful. But it seems almost a hobby with N’s and Ps. Maybe they feel it is the easiest, quickest way to avoid any kind of real intimacy…and that’s why he didn’t have an affair (which would be dramatic, emotional, potentially really dangerous to him internally) and chose what would be dramatic and really dangerous to him professionally?

The mind boggles. I spent much of last night trying to catch-up on this story, glean both sides of insight into Spitzer’s character, decide what I really thought. And that was all I came away with: he risked – and lost – everything to procure non-intimate forms of physical intimacy. Now that’s disordered.

Jim in Indiana USA

I’m new here. 25 year marriage to what I’ve decided was a BPD woman. Last 10 years were hell. Still have a 12 year old daughter I see almost daily or I’d be a thousand miles away. I was D&D’d, then divorced when I found out she was meeting a married co-worker in his pickup truck at the park before coming home. Two years later (rumination, etc), with the help of a down-to-earth therapist and blogs like this, the light bulb switched on and I finally figured it out. I enjoy the peace now. Enough about me…

Last night (Thursday, March 13th) on Fox News with Britt Hume, I heard Charles Krauthammer, Washington Post columnist, hit the nail on the head. He talked about Eliot Spitzer, Bill Clinton, and narcissism. I think he also said the P word. I didn’t have to scream at the TV. Of course, the other “panelists” looked mystified.

This morning, I watched Spitzer’s resignation video a few times. An actor on a stage. It was all about him, with what appeared to be his tortured wife beside him. At times I think she was looking at him in disbelief. No catch in his voice. Body language like he was giving a campaign speech. The eyes were the worst in the mask of his face. Creeped me out!

I hope his wife and daughters get through this. Sorry, I can’t work up much sympathy for him. He is what he is and there is no cure.

Ox Drover

Welcome, Jim from Indiana,

I didn’t see that or hear them mention Bill Clinton. I have thought for many years that he was at LEAST an N (I live in Arkansas and have met the man a time or two but do not “know” him) and more likely, a mid-level P. I do know the husband of one of the women he allegedly raped (and in this case, she says beat her up when she resisted) I went to school with the woman’s husband, and was close friends with his sister. I believe this woman’s story 100%. Assuming that it and the other women are not lying, then he would be a “full blown P” in my estimation.

Hillary’s “reaction” to his being “outed” and other stories I have heard second hand, and my general experience with Ps at all levels, leads me to believe that Hillary is also a P. Her blaming all their “troubles” on a “vast right-wing conspiracy” made me shake my head in disbelief that she thought anyone would buy that! LOL

All Ps are Ns, but not all Ns are Ps, so I guess you could say it was a matter of motive and degree. Anything that helps educate the public and the press to the N and P words is good as far as I am concerned. My belief is that your average Jane and Joe American think the only Ps in the world are serial killers, and couldn’t believe that the man next door who beats his wife is a Psychopath. They may not like him, they may think what he does is wrong, or that he needs therapy to help him, but they just don’t have a concept that psychopaths are “everyday folks” just like the rest of us, except they don’t have a conscience and there is NO cure.

Glad you are doing well Jim. Good for you.


Outstanding recap of the Spitzer debacle. I had been following it all very closely when I posted on Dr. Steve’s prior No Apology thread. I hate to admit I not only yelled at the tv, but had shoe in hand, position assumed, ready to let fly at both O’Reilly and Dr. Drew. AlohaTraveler counts to ten when necessary, so that’s what I did too and then put my shoe back on my foot.

TryingToRecover, you’ll love this. O’Reilly in his written column yesterday struck again. “If you watch cable tv news, you will hear the braying pack talk about Spitzer’s arrogance, his “I’m above it all” mentality. But if you examine the facts, this shallow analysis doesn’t wash.”

It too gets better, Mr. O’Reilly has coined a new diagnosis called, The Belushi Syndrome. “No, what’s in play here is what I call the “Belishi Syndrome.” That’s when a famous person who has money and success subconsciously tries to destroy himself. You see it all the time-movie stars, athletes, and politicians doing incredibly stupid stuff.”

He does make a couple accurate observations. “Spitzer is a completely different animal.” Too bad he has no clue what that animal is. “(A self-destructive, self-loathing personality will find a way to blow everything up, and it doesn’t matter what kind of career the person has. We all know people like this.) Stay away from them.” This scholarly advice is what is being promoted from the most “widely watched” cable news channel.

Politicians run our country, the media report on it, and they shape our world at large. Last week marked my first anniversary of “no contact” and on exactly “the” day I received and read, Good Morning Texas in a status message from “Him.” LilOrphan stated on a prior thread, “Why can’t people just tell the truth . . .” I often wonder the very same. I did respond with a quote, “But above all things truth is the victor” then I signed out and went on about my day. I smiled, then thanked God for Lovefraud and all of its contributors.


Ox Drover

I am so glad that “DOCTOR” O’Reilly has come up with a new “diagnosis.” How profound. How inovative….how ARROGANT. How IGNORANT.

Congratulations on your one year anniversary of freedom Benz.

I have had O’Reilly mentally set to “auto-ignore” ever since Shawn Hornbeck was rescued and O’Reilly claimed the kid didn’t go for help because he liked being with his captor more than his parents. He’s an ignorant blowhard with entirely too much visibility.

Ox Drover

I sometimes wonder if the “news” or “talk” media actually hires these blowhards sort of like the “wrestling” has “good guys” and “bad guys” playing a pre-programmed script, so that people tune in to “boo” the “bad guy”?

How on God’s green earth can someone so ignorant and abrasive have a “discussion”(?) or “news”(?) program–????

What about that creep on Radio/cable TV “in the big Cowboy hat” (I refuse to say his name) that got fired for the racial slur against the volleyball players—-talk about your ignorant Narcissists!

But Jerry Springer has a “show” so I guess there is no level below which the “entertainment” industry will not go in order to get people to “tune in”—which is one reason I canceled my cable service, get my weather and most of my news off the internet and ignore the rest. Can’t do much about any of it any way so no reason to throw another shoe at the TV set or grind the caps off my teeth, or stay in a “tizzy” all the time about “man’s inhumanity to man”

I sometimes wish there was a desert island I could afford to buy and just get away from it all, but with my “luck” I would be invaded by fire ants! LOL

I LOVE Jerry Springer….

Whenever I am feeling down and depressed about the way the xs touched my life, I watch a little Jerry. Then I realize I am nothing like the people on the show- and then I feel a little better.

I agree with you OxD, there is alot of garbage available on tv and despite how the show is marketed, it is sometimes difficult to really tell which shows are scripted and which are “real.” We watch alot of movies at our house, I have had enough reality. 😉

Ox Drover

Well, Glinda, I guess there is a “redeeming social value” in even the Jerry Springer show, it makes us feel better about our selves.

Some of my friends “nominated” my family story (as a joke) to be a “Jerry Springer Mini-Series” At the time things weren’t funny,but even that made me smile.

I intend my story to become a “Lifetime; Made for TV Movie.”

Without humor, my recovery would be doomed. Luckily for me, I’m a goof at heart and find something that makes me laugh every day.

Ox Drover

After over a year of UNRELIEVED INSANITY AND PAIN, I am in the last few months starting to feel like a human being again. During the summer last year after I fled my home, I ended up getting a tick borne fever which made me feel terrible, but I thought it was simply stress and depression.

Fortunately, in September I was diagnosed and treated, and though recovery has been slow I am starting to recover from both that and the stress and debilitation of it all.

The thread on here about the effects of stress on the mind/body is so right on. It leaves us susceptible to all kinds of sicknesses and physical and mental debilities.

Having been relatively healthy and very active all my life, just being “ill” was a tremendous stress in itself. I too am sort of a goof with a gallows sense of humor and am starting to laugh every day, mostly at myself and my CRS (Can’t remember S#!t) which is also a result of the stress and PTSD.

I have always tried to not take myself too seriously, but to enjoy life–unfortunately, I have preached that more than practiced that–but I think in many ways that I am better “adjusted” and happier than I have ever been in my life. There is NO one in my environment that is giving me any hassle of any kind. I am NC with them all. In fact, the other day was my P-son’s birthday and I actually didn’t remember it until a couple of days later. I knew the date, it just didn’t dawn on me it was his birthday until a couple of days later. So I guess I am actually to the point that I am solidly on the road to recovery and the rest of my life P-free. I do hope for Mrs. Spritzer’s sake and the sake of her daughters that she is able to “get her head around” what her husband is and make a life for herself and her children. None of them deserve what he has done to them.


Start reading,

Go No Contact- that means nothing through email, phone , other people etc.

I am sorry- there’s no quick fix- but I do promise you, you will be stronger and wiser. It is ultimately the BEST thing to get away from him, losing him is a gain.

Knowledge truly is power. I am sure you have thought of getting a therapist etc. I’d try prayer too. I will pray for you.

This is a better place to be than with him. One tiny step at a time.


We posted at the same time, “Knowledge is power.” Funny, but so true.


Trying hard to come to terms with the fact that I am not only gullable, naive and not as clever as I thought I was, is this all part of his sick game, over the past year I have been called mad but when I have challenged it has just been laughed off and covered with gifts and hugs. I could neither walk away or stay although I know now that walking away would have been the best thing, I am left with a heavy heart and lack of confidence to move forward, but have to seek solace in the fact that I am not alone, even though at this moment I am so raw, and constantly on the brink of tears, is there anything I can do to resolve this because it is hurting so much and I question my sanity, and keep asking myself ‘is it me, am I imagining this he did love me’. The man I trusted and believed in has put me in such a horrible position and it’s not like me to wallow in self pity, I appear to outsiders to have it all, but material possession isn’t everything, my house is no longer my home because he has tainted every corner of it, and I hate being here, but find it hard to face my friends. Is there any magic cure to get me through this, does anyone have any solution to getting through the to the next step?

Ox Drover

Dear V.abraded, unfortunately there is no magic cure except DISTANCE and TIME and HARD WORK.

Staying with a psychopath or narcissist so you won’t “be alone” is like living in a pit with a viper so that you wont be alone.

It is far worse than “being alone”—far far FAR WORSE—

You are so right, “material possession isn’t everything” and I can definitely relate to your home being “tainted” as can many others on this board.

Make a plan and plan to get out, whatever it takes get out. It will only get worse if you stay. In the meantime, until you are ready to leave, read and learn about the Ns and Ps. Knowledge is power.

God bless you.


v.abraded. Off the back of my own experiences, I can say to you, I know where you are at and infact if you read through this site, you will see that many others have trod this path before you. So finding out what others have done is a valuable support. Unfortunately I dont think there is a magic cure to shortcut the painful process.

What I found personally useful was to write down my experiences and find trusted friends or counsellor to discuss with. I thought the advice by Tauruswinds was helpful on the physical front. Look after your health, I didnt sleep or eat and smoked too much. Because the path is in some ways similar to others but such a personal experience, do what you feel you are prompted to do. I would say, do not try to get into another relationship and try to realise what you can learn from this to make sure it doesnt happen to you ever again. Like many others, I wallowed, I cried and this part has to be dealt with. I did plenty of reading and contributing to this site. I am a pretty savvy person and I thought I was clever and I was highly annoyed that I had been sucked into his sick game too. But I realised that I could not have known his sick game, because I dont operate like that. Put your energies into yourself and not into his sidelining. They drag us down, they deplete us, they weaken us, they dress up the illusion with kind words and gestures – that is what they do – until we put a stop to it!!


Thank you for your comments, I can’t tell you what a comfort it is to know that there are women like me out there, I was beginning to feel so isolated and paranoia was beginning to creep in. As for my friends they have been trying to tell me that I should get away for years. Unfortunately I lost my closest friend to the dreaded C four years ago, and yes he spent her last day with me because she so wanted to meet him, he also managed to convince her that he would always look after me,thank God I didn’t let him stay until she passed away, it was just me and her, its that which hurts that which is the hardest because its such a poignant memory.I am sure she looks down on me and tries to guide me, I recently got a beautiful rescue dog to stave off the loneliness he really does the trick and is wonderful company and it was him who let me to the truth, whilst I was walking him I started to talk to a woman who was also walking her dog, a chance comment and she turned out to be a friend of his wife, someone I had never met before it all came tumbling out, strange how you can listen and take heed from a complete stranger, I went through the head f*** but now realise she is genuine and is trying to persuade me to join her yoga group…. I do believe in fate…..that is why all of you out there are going to be a huge help to me… thank you all x


Thanks OxD. It hasn’t been total No Contact because there are still some issues between us, but I haven’t seen him and it’s been No Chance for a year.

V.abraded, I didn’t find anything that took the misery away, but when you find the pain unbearable and nowhere to turn, Lovefraud is always here and everyone here understands. Take your time and don’t be too hard on yourself. Figure out if it’s solitude or diversion or whatever it is that makes you feel, if not good then, better. Develop new routines, go for walks, but move even if you have to cry through it. A new focus will eventually emerge. I think the rescue dog was a wonderful idea in moving forward. Everything happens for a reason.

I remind myself regularly of 2 things even today because he may always be in my thoughts, he is what he is and that will not change; no matter what he says or does and no matter what I do. I did my best, then I gave him to God. I’ll pray for you too; know that peace will come one day because it really will. All the best . . . Benz


I also was yelling at the TV when Spitzer made his “apology”. This is identical to my P’s behavior. I asked him if he felt any remorse or sorrow for what he has done to me and his family, and he said with no emotion whatsoever, “of course I am sorry for all I’ve done”. He mimics the emotions he thinks he should have, but there is never any true emotion behind his words.

Spitzer is without a doubt a pyschopath. It was obvious to me that he clearly felt no guilt, no shame about what he has done. The only thing he is angry about is that he was caught. This is exactly like my P – he now wants me to pay because I have caught him in all his lies. There is no guilt at all, because there is truly no conscience within this man.


Seeing Spitzer’s ‘apology’ on TV got me to thinking about other politicians and media types… I suspect that Spitzer is just the tip of the iceberg in the political world… those kinds of people crave power and the average voter is too ‘dumbed out’ , unconscious or apathetic to recognize the danger… and more than willing to assign the sociopathic candidate the power that goes with the office.

In a sense, when we elect those kinds of people into office, we surrender our personal power to them – just as we did when we entered a personal relationship with a sociopath… we didn’t know something was wrong until…

Fortunately, many of us who have survived that kind of of personal relationship have learned to recognize socippathic traits and ‘red flags’ and we are now able to
assess behaviors that others, including mental health professionals, overlook…


Thank you OxD for your comments. It is so comforting to hear the kindness and “feeling” in your words apart from having had a good laugh. The P I was married to used ANY contact he possibly could get with me to devaluate me and create an illusion in front of other people, especially my sons, of me being crazy and him the poor sincere, guiltless victim. Of course I sometimes really acted like a crazy, furious monster and would today and forever again, because he did drive me crazy with his lies and of course everyone who didn’t know him as I did, absolutely loved him! I never could figure out why certain people I knew very well, suddenly started acting strange and even hostile or antagonistic towards me. I only realised a while ago that he was telling lies about me to everyone who could possibly be my friends or be a support to me to put me in a poor light.
To V.abraded I can say I agree with OxD that you need DISTANCE and TIME. Be good to yourself and forgive yourself for the things you might be beating yourself up with. It is impossible to be the perfect person you would have liked yourself to be, when you are in such intimate contact with an inhuman beast like a P. I would add some form of support system. My friends, especially those who didn’t believe his lies, were invaluable to me. But I must say, as a Christian, I found tremendous solace in the Word of God. The Lord says in Jes.54:4-5-Don’t be afraid and don’t be ashamed. …Because the One who has made you, is your husband. (my translation). I have never since been as lonely as I was when he was still alive. … No, I didn’t murder him (I sometimes think I should have long ago!) but he died in an accident. So, God knew I wouldn’t be able to take it longer or I think he (the P) was going to murder me the night of his accident, but that’s speculation. So He intervened Himself.
Love and peace to you all! And thank you for this wonderful site, Donna!!

Ox Drover


Knowing for certain (after the fact) that my P-son had tried to have me killed, and “knowing” before, so that I fled to safety before his plan could be accomplished, I actually lived in hiding for nearly six months…not only from my son but all the rest of my family and friends except one son and about 4 friends had no idea where I was.

Like the story of King David hiding from King Saul in the caves, I believe my intuition that my life was in danger (at that time I had no real evidence) was God’s warning to me, just as he warned DAvid by Jonathan, Saul’s son.

Several months after I fled, and the plan to murder me had failed because they couldn’t find me, they went into Plan B, which failed and got two of them arrested. My P son is already in prison, the two arrested were my Daughter in law, x wife (now) of son C who was “fogged” and her BF the Trojan Horse P that my son had sent to “infiltrate” the family.

My faith in God is increased, many times, and the “providence” of God I believe saved my life. My faith has held me up when nothing else did. But in addition to having faith, I think that we have to work WORK at also doing what we can for ourselves, and let God take care of the rest of it.

“Vengence is mine, sayeth the Lord” –and it is natural and normal to want vengence against them, but that is not our right or providence. That is in God’s hands, and believe me, I would rather be in YOUR hands than in GOD’s hands for vengence, so by allowing them to “skate free” (for the moment) I think we can be assured that the JUSTICE we wish for for these people will be the vengence of a just God.


New York Post wrote: “A disgraced Gov. Spitzer has been publicly and privately described for more than a year by New York’s top political figures as a ruthless, sanctimonious, amoral man whose righteous public persona was regularly contradicted by the realities of how he conducted his political life.”

The biggest clue that Spitzer is not a psychopath, though he is obviously a hypocrite and liar and probably has some narcissistic traits, though he may also have some good qualities, is the very paragraph quoted above. When a country is under the thumb of a pathocracy, as the U.S. is currently, pay close attention to whom they seek to destroy. It’s obviously, the ones who won’t play ball with them. And consider the fact that the media is the whore of the power elite, and you’ll begin to understand a few things.


Addenda: On the topic of McGreevey, while again, it may look like psychopathic behavior, a bit of deeper research and an understanding of the current political situation would go a long way toward helping anyone who wishes to analyze such things to perceive the “line of force” running through the incidents.

For example, consider what Wayne Madsen wrote about McGreevey:

“Here we go again. Another political bombshell hits the American people and there is yet another connection to the subterranean labyrinth of possible Israeli intelligence activities. New Jersey Democratic Governor Jim McGreevey’s announcement on August 12 that he was resigning because of his involvement in a gay relationship with an Israeli national may be the tip of an iceberg that represents another high-level Israeli attempt to burrow into the most sensitive areas of U.S. national security and our political process. The surprise announcement is also being used by a number of neo-conservative news outlets to tarnish the Democratic Party and absolve Israel of any connection to the New Jersey political scandal.

“The ties between Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon’s Russian-mafia infused government and shadowy Israeli and Eastern European ex-intelligence agents are beyond a doubt, according to international law enforcement officials. But what is not readily apparent is the fact that a number of Israeli off-the-books intelligence operatives are active inside the United States and they do not have U.S. national interests in mind. In particular, the Israeli-Russian mobsters and their allies within the Sharon government have adopted one of the most successful intelligence ploys used by the former KGB and East German Stasi–the use of prostitutes or “swallows” to gain intimate access to high Western politicians, so-called “sexpionage.” In the case of Israel, which welcomed a number of émigré former Eastern bloc intelligence agents during and after the Cold War, this has entailed the use of both female and male prostitutes. The fact that White House chief dirty tricks operator Karl Rove has close connections to the political spin machine run out of Sharon’s Jerusalem office is also a concern when it comes to Israeli-connected dirty tricks operations being run against Democratic politicians in the United States.”

I think that everyone here is familiar with the idea that a psychopath can engage with a person, and that person will be “converted” to doing all kinds of things via the manipulation of the psychopath. It’s not a new concept. So, why aren’t ya’ll doing some serious thinking about these things? Do some digging!



Allow me to share the same information that I posted to Liane’s comments on the Spitzer Scandal:

There’s more data behind the “Spitzer Scandal”; look at what Amy Goodman writes:

So, yeah, the guy had some definite issues, but it’s a bit precipitate to suggest that he was a sociopath. It’s one thing to talk about personal experiences with paths, but quite another to consider issues in “high places” where the powers of psychopaths can be brought to bear on an individual and make them look guilty as hell.

Understanding Political Ponerology is crucial when analyzing events about which you are only allowed to know what the press tells you, and must consider who controls the press: those in power who are effecting the scandal and “take-down.”

I’m pretty sure that Spitzer did some things that aren’t very savory, but then, so did JFK. One must also consider men who are married to psychopathic wives and how they cope if they are in public positions and can be easily made to look really bad if they walk out and distance themselves from a woman who has “all the cards to play.”

All I’m saying here is that we really need to take the time to think about these things carefully, examine the “line of force,” use the knowledge we have gained from psychopaths up-close and personal to help us figure out the picture within the picture that we only see from a distance, and only see what we are supposed to see.

Does that sound like “conspiracy theory?” Yeah, it does. Keep in mind that the word “theory” means “a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world” and when we are aware of the powers and abilities of psychopaths and the part they play in conspiring against us, and then think about them in positions of power, “conspiracy theories” don’t seem so whacky after all, now do they?

But only those people who are aware of the existence of psychopaths have any real hope of seeing this, and that is what those of us who have had these experiences need to tell others.

The very label “conspiracy” serves as an automatic dismissal, as though no one ever acts in secret. Let us bring some perspective and common sense to this issue.

The United States comprises large organizations – corporations, bureaucracies, “interest groups,” and the like – which are conspiratorial by nature. That is, they are hierarchical, their important decisions are made in secret by a few key decision-makers, and they are not above lying about their activities. Such is the nature of organizational behavior. “Conspiracy,” in this key sense, is a way of life around the globe.

Within the world’s military and intelligence apparatuses, this tendency is magnified to the greatest extreme. During the 1940s, the military and its scientists developed the world’s most awesome weapons in complete secrecy.

Anyone who has lived in a repressive society knows that official manipulation of the truth occurs daily. But societies have their many and their few. In all times and all places, it is the few who rule, and the few who exert dominant influence over what we may call official culture. – All elites take care to manipulate public information to maintain existing structures of power. It’s an old game.

Nearly everything of significance undertaken by America’s military and intelligence community in the past half-century has occured in secrecy. The undertaking to build an atomic weapon, better known as the Manhattan Project, remains the great model for all subsequent activities. For more than two years, not a single member of Congress even knew about it although its final cost exceeded two billion dollars.

During and after the Second World War, other important projects, such as the development of biological weapons, the importation of Nazi scientists, terminal mind-control experiments, nationwide interception of mail and cable transmissions of an unwitting populace, infiltration of the media and universities, secret coups, secret wars, and assassinations all took place far removed not only from the American public, but from most members of Congress and a few presidents. Indeed, several of the most powerful intelligence agencies were themselves established in secrecy, unknown by the public or Congress for many years.

Since the 1940s, the U.S. Defense and Intelligence establishment has had more money at its disposal than most nations. In addition to official dollars, much of the money is undocumented. From its beginning, the C.I.A. was engaged in a variety of off-the-record “business” activities that generated large sums of cash. The connections of the C.I.A. with global organized crime (and thus de facto with the international narcotics trade) has been well established and documented for many years. – Much of the original money to run the American intelligence community came from very wealthy and established American families, who have long maintained an interest in funding national security operations important to their interests.

Secrecy, wealth and independence add up to power. Through the years, the families and people with wealth and power have gained access to the wrorld’s most sophisticated technology sealed off millions of acres of land from public access or scrutiny, acquired unlimited snooping ability within U.S. borders and beyond, conducted overt or clandestine actions against other nations, and prosecuted wars without serious media scrutiny. Domestically, it maintains influence over elected officials and communities hoping for some of the billions of defense dollars. [including scientists, universities, etc.]

Deception is the key element of warfare, and when winning is all that matters, the conventional morality held by ordinary people becomes an impediment. When taken together, the examples of official duplicity form a nearly single totality. They include such choice morsels as the phony war crisis of 1948, the fabricated missile gap claimed by the air force during the 1950s, the carefully managed events leading to the Gulf of Tonkin resolution, the Iraq war, the dissolution of the Constitution after the alleged “terrorist attack” on 9-11.

The secrecy stems from a pervasive and fundamental element of life in our world, that those who are at the top of the heap will always take whatever steps are necessary to maintain the status quo.

And they are generally psychopaths in power over all of us, not just the personal types that cause untold misery to their families.

The point is, we need to be careful in our analyses, and widen our scope so as to include those paths who make society friendly to the psychopaths next door.



At first I thought I read your post wrong. I don’t understand how the paragraph you quoted from the Post could be evidence against him being a sociopath. I know that the political system is full of alliances and plots that we have no idea about, but that does not mean that these sociopaths are not to blame for their actions. Yes, I call them sociopaths because I think that Donna and the rest of us are as qualified as any psychologist to diagnose them.

We are not only judging by what Republican politicians are saying about him, we have video footage of his pitiful “apology” and his actions are clearly reflective of his lack of empathy and conscience.

I do not rule out the possibility that the Republican party can take advantage of the situation and maybe even set them up for situations that they know their sociopathic nature will not let them pass up. That’s the nature of politics. But that does not shift the blame off of these people. They are responsible for what they have done. If they had not cheated on their wives (novel concept!) in such heartless and disgraceful ways, the Republican party would not have had a chance to fuel a media campaign against them.

I don’t think negating the fact that Eliot Spitzer is a sociopath serves to widen our scope. If he shows the signs, there is no point in arguing them away for political reasons. If you could bring proof of the sociopathy of another political figure (without political bias), we would welcome it here. Because it seems to me the world of politics is full of sociopaths, on both sides. I think Donna just wrote about this case because it’s all over the news and it is easy to see the signs that all of us here know all too well.

Ox Drover

Laura, your analysis of politics of the “powerful” using the “powerless” is totally right on. I think there have been so few rulers in the world since time began that were not “crooked” or psychopathic that I have coined a new term for my feelings. I am a “political agnostic”—I am not sure that I believe there is an honest politician in the world!

Psychopaths rise to the top in underhanded and self serving situations in which being able to do what you want to to accomplish a purpose regardless what what methods you use to torture, or invade a country. I think it always has been and always will be.

The strong take over the weak. The masses follow. I can’t see that changing.

It would be nice if “honest” men were in office, but at the same time, I don’t see it as being likely any time soon.

The fantatics and the psychopaths will always gravitate to power and just as dictators, Hitler for example, rose to power, Stalin, Mao, and others of the last half of the 20th century, untold tens of millions of deaths resulted from these men and the “minor” sociopaths that they used in their rise to power before their eventual down falls.

I just finished reading two books on China during Mao’s take over, one written by a “communist believer” who was an American who stayed in China, and another one who was a “believer” who was of Chinese nationallity. Both of these men wrote from the heart and the personal close contact that they had with Mao and his other close contacts–both of these men eventually escaped China at great risk to themselves and others.

The American man was placed in solitary confinement and torture and starvation for 7 years as a “test” and believe it or not, when he came out of prison he was STILL faithful to Mao until many years later. (Talk about N-fog!)

Just as we may have empathy for the victim of a violent psychopath such as the wife who returns again and again to a man who beats and abuses her, these men returned again and again to the psychopathic leader who abused them and the others, unable to fathom that someone could be so EVIL and without conscience. Reading their stories was almost like reading the blogs written here of the women and men who were in N-fogs for years with their Ps—and reminds me that I too was in the N-fog with my Ps for so long.

I can empathize with these men. I can also empathize with the people who were warned of the Nazi camps, but chose to stay in Germany because they could not comprehend that anyone could be THAT EVIL. Many of those people lost their lives because they would not listen to the warnings about Hitler’s psychopathic intents.

All of us have suffered as victims from the INDIVIDUAL Ps that have impacted us personally, but I don’t think it is any different except on the SCALE of the Psychopaths who rule countries, manipulate the media, and FOG an entire population.

Like I think it was Abraham Lincoln said “you can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all of the time, but not all of the people all of the time.” Sometimes by the time some of the people are no longer fooled, there are so many people that are fooled that those that are not fooled and in the minority can’t escape.

Sometimes I feel like John the Baptist, “crying in the wilderness” and no one wants to hear unless they have personally experienced the devestation of a “personal psychopath” or a “cultural psychopath.”



I am in complete agreement with Ariadne. Peruse the traits of a psychopath/sociopath provided by Dr. Robert Hare, Ph.D. contained on this site. Most of us on here use those as our guide upon which to base our discussions, not on conspiracy theory, military or intelligence strategies of the 1940’s, or controversies over whether Karl Rove is a dirty tricks operator or a political architect.

Former Governor Spitzer, as the Lovefraud authors and resident experts found, displays many of those behaviors. I am in agreement, and will add he is paying the price for his own actions and behavior just as he should.

Laura Knight-Jadczyk is the originator of the left-wing blog site called SOTT, Sign of the Times, I believe. I have a quote I think is appropriate with my tongue slightly in cheek, “The left is full of crop circle paranoids. The right is full of stupid angry people. The sheer volume of information in both does manage to strip things to bare bone facts, but not by virtue of intelligence, just volume – like a colony of bacteria feeding on a corpse.”

The point is, we are all intelligent adults on this site and can understand underlying political motivations without being spoon fed propaganda of any slant. Further, our scope is sufficiently wide to include any and all related behavior, but without political bend. Those discussions are best left to the sites that invite political bias.


Ox Drover

Benzthere, you put my thoughts very eloquently, thank you for “clarifying” me! LOL


Any time OxD. Many times your writings have mirrored my thoughts exactly!


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