Sitting with an antisocial or sociopathic client is an interesting experience—for a while, anyway, until it grows tedious”¦almost boring. There is the initial curiosity about, and fascination with, the client’s antisocial behaviors”¦their nature”¦breadth.
Perhaps there’s even a certain rubbernecking interest in the train-wreck of moral turpitude these clients present—with their staggering patterns of ethical and moral debaseness. Admittedly, it can be breathtaking, on certain levels, to behold the magnitude of their abuse of others’ boundaries and dignity, accompanied by missing feelings of accountability and remorse.
And the interest in the experience with such clients persists a bit longer when you are dealing with someone who is “intelligent.” There’s something just inherently more compelling, at least initially, about an “intelligent” sociopath who guiltlessly transgresses others in the gross, chronic way that sociopaths do, versus the less intelligent sociopath, whose intellectual limitations seem to dim, however unfairly, the spectacular nature of his violations.
But after a while, as I say, sitting with the sociopathic client, however intelligent he may even be, grows tedious. It’s not unlike the experience of discovering that someone you expected to find extremely interesting (and perhaps did, initially) is, at bottom, really a boring individual with little to say or offer. There’s something anti-climactically disappointing in the discovery of the individual’s gross limitations.
With most sociopathic personalities, in my experience, this sense of disillusionment—of of having to face the reality, ultimately, of their emotional vacuity—occurs in the work with them. As different in temperament and intelligence as they may be, ultimately sociopaths prove to be highly ungratifying clients to work with. This is because, regardless of their ability to talk the talk, they are, ultimately, unable to make themselves genuinely accountable for their actions, the fact of which, after a while, simply grows tiresome.
The sociopathic client just doesn’t feel, in a heart-felt way, so many of the things he “allegedly” is ready to own, or the reforms he is “allegedly” ready to make; and when this becomes clear—as it always does—a certain tedium, boredom enters the sessions.
This boredom, I think, arises in the recognition of the futility of making a real connection with the sociopath; also in the futility of his making any sort of real connection to the pain he’s caused others, and will continue to cause others, despite his superficial assertions of regret and remorse.
And so this is where the big yawns threaten to emerge with regularity. It’s the feeling of having your time wasted, which is exactly what the sociopath is doing. He is wasting your time, as he wastes everything from which he doesn’t derive a personally, selfishly compelling benefit.
It is that moment of untruth—that moment when it becomes clear that, no matter how verbally interesting and, perhaps, even engaging he may be, the sociopathic individual finally lacks anything substantive to say, feel, or aspire to. Lacking this substance, the possibly initially engaging experience with him yields, ultimately, to the sense of being futilely engaged with an emotional cipher.
That is, for a while his charisma, charm and engaging qualities, if they are present, may compensate for the missing underlying emotional substance. But there is a shelf-life for this compensatory entertainment before the tedium of his barren inner emotional life begins to weigh down the experience of him. There is a limit to hearing the same repetitive pronouncements of intended change, pseudo remorse and responsibility.
There is also a limit, beyond which it becomes increasingly oppressive to sit with the sociopath, who in one breath may claim responsibility for his violations of others, while in the very next withdraw his pseudo-assumption of responsibility and abruptly rationalize the very behavior that, only moments before, he seemingly repudiated?
This is the sociopath at work. Sitting with him can be an interesting experience. But as his particular, underlying emotional disability surfaces, the interest leads, surpisingly quickly, to a feeling of ennui”¦almost oppression.
(This article is copyrighted © 2011 by Steve Becker, LCSW. My use of male gender pronouns is for convenience’s sake only and not to suggest that females aren’t capable of the behaviors and attitudes discussed.)
LL, I think you are IMHO getting too “hung up on” LABELS.
“A rose is a rose…..” no matter WHAT YOU CALL IT.
First off a person can only be “officially labeled” a psychopath/sociopath/anti-social PD if they have been assessed by a trained professional who has the credentials and training to make that diagnosis. PERIOD.
Secondly, 99.9% of real psychopaths are NOT going to go to a trained professional for a diagnosis, though some do get one involuntarily while in prison. Not even all of them in prison are “diagnosed.”
Abuser=toxic=psychopathic=sociopathic=narcissistic=arsehole= whatever you want to call it.
The point is that putting a “sticky label” on these people, or tattooing it on their foreheads doesn’t make a doggone bit of difference in the end. Even if you tattoo’d it on their foreheads most people aren’t going to really get the difference any way, and educating 6 BILLION people on this planet isn’t an easy or quick process. Even educating 300 million (or whatever the US population is) isn’t all that easy to do either. We still have a high percentage of people who are functionally illiterate or read on a 6th grade or less level so getting across the finer distinctions of psychopath vs sociopath vs jerk-face or arsehole is much more difficult that Saying “a person who abuses you thus and so, or is mean to you etc” (i.e. a “bully”) is toxic and you should get away and stay away from them” It is a CONTINUAL process to educate every new generation to refuse to accept bullying, just as it is to educate every new generation to read….none of us are born knowing how people should treat each other or expect to be treated. We have to learn one day at a time.
We can’t fix or educate the world about abusive behavior and abusive people, but we can do it like we teach people to read—one person at a time, 1 letter at a time, 1 word at a time.
Whether you call it “reading” or “literacy” doesn’t really matter, it is the bottom line of communication by symbols that works. Same with “psychopaths” or “abusers” the CONCEPT is the same–one person using/hurting another–whether it is a big hurt or a small hurt, it is hurting someone. Just a matter of scope I think.
Blue,
I think it’s more than that. One has to know EXACTLY what they’re dealing with first, in order to proceed to next step in healing. The next step, once the idea of what a sociopath is and does (VERY BIG HURDLE TO GET PAST), is where it turns into….how did I get into this?? Why? Why did this happen to me or why did I allow this? That’s where I believe the meaning happens, but that meaning is MEANINGLESS unless you understand what you were dealing with in the first place. I think I understand more about my involvement and why, rather than the sociopath and his behaviors. Just as this article describes and why it’s SO validating, at least for me, is because Steve gives the label MEANING from a PROFESSIONAL perspective. And it is uncannily accurate in describing ALL our experiences with spaths. It’s another layer of the onion, for me, that is now off, which uncovers yet another layer. I’m a rather deep thinker. I ponder these things, in part for my own healing, but also in part in perhaps helping other victims of spaths, understand their experiences too in the future, as well as understanding my part in it all. i see some very dangerous and unsettling assumptions made when this moral illness is generalized into terms of “toxic”. There are MANY toxic people in the world and while I don’t disagree that we need them in our lives, necessarily, there ARE others who have been or are toxic that DO have the ability to recover. psychopaths/sociopaths DO NOT have this ability and while resembling abusers (as they are abusers) there is a BIG difference between your run of the mill toxic abuser, who is NOT personality disordered and those that ARE personality disordered.
The distinction for those those who are NEW to this, is critical in trying to accept what happened to them and UNDERSTANDING what a sociopath truly is. This is why Donna and others, are reaching out in communities, educating others, etc, about it in the first place. But once the seriousness of this disorder is “downgraded” to the generality of toxic, you’ve got a victim who may believe that this is REPARABLE……..WHEN IT IS NOT!
Blue when you understand, fully and completely, EMBRACING the idea of a pathological person, the healing process tends to move a little bit faster. what I’m noticing about my process is that the stumbling block is projecting normal into abnormal. For example, “He’s going to be so happy with someone else, the new woman!!”, then of course, this kind of ruminating leads to all the “good” memories shared with the spath.
I read on another site how critical it is to understand PATHOLOGICAL behavior because is it REALLY going to be better with HER?
Questions to ask yourself. What is the relationship history? Did it get better for the other women he was with? Did he get better FOR YOU? There’s your answer. Another article here that didn’t expound on that a lot, but the meaning behind it is clear, past behavior is a good indication of future behavior. This is not applicable to those who are toxic or victims who have empathy and may have made some poor choices in the past, and want to RECOVER from it, this is applicable to the SOCIOPATH, who is a DIFFERENT ANIMAL altogether!!! This is why the distinction is so crucial, especially for newbies. Those of us trying to wrap our minds around this.
I’m a VERY determined person and while I’m experiencing a great deal of pain, what I”m noticing, as I accept and integrate the information about sociopaths is that when I start to “ruminate” about him, I keep myself in check and have to replace that with the BAD THAT HE DID……he is NOT capable of being REAL or of DEPTH with anyone, thus BORING!!!!
My spath did not get better with his two ex wives, he did not get better for me and he wont’ for the next victim either because he CANNOT CHANGE HIS PATHOLOGY!!!
It is important blue to have the information about a sociopath, particularlly from a PROFESSIONAL perspective, as well as with others who have shared the experienced, BUT, it’s also important to understand WHY we got involved in the first place and look deep within, work on the vulnerabilities or past abuse, get stronger, so we CAN avoid them in the future!
BOTH elements have to be in place, otherwise, the choices will be repeated.
LL
Ox,
I do understand what you’re saying. I GET THAT, BUT, if that is so, why are we educating the public specifically about sociopaths, such as with the ten signs your dating a sociopath if it’s not just a “label”? Why all the articles here if labels do not apply specifically to sociopaths/pychopaths?
Why not just call it, “Ten signs you’re dating a toxic person?”
Do you see what I”m saying here?
While I agree with you about toxic, I think that if you don’t have a label to apply to it, then WHY are we labeling it? The label is only important in understanding the CONTENT to the meaning of that label. When I found out I had fibromyalgia, it was an ENORMOUS relief, because NONE of my prior physicians knew what was wrong or how to “label” my condition. When I found out about it, I got books and read online as much as I could about the illness, the CONTENT…..and it DID have meaning for me.
It isn’t just about labels in and of themselves, ox, it’s also the meaning.
LL
One year after our marriage, we went to a sociologist for some counseling. These sessions were started shortly after I found out about his affair, during the many times when he was working out of town while I stayed at home with his children. My concerns included a lengthy list of his self-loving actions and a total disregard for my feelings even on our honeymoon. Needless to say, he charmed the (woman) counselor and they both ganged up against me. Over the years, I’ve repeatedly heard about that counselor justifying him over me.
My husband will NOT admit the truth even when he’s caught in a lie. I fail to understand his constant need to distort the real facts to justify some sort of self promoting story that he’s told.
He controls everything. He frequently withholds my mail from me…including invitations to his grandchildren’s birthday parties last year. If I fail to attend a celebration with him, no one is aware that he’s only given me 20 minutes notice that he’s going to a child’s house (without ever mentioning a b-day party). His kids seem to have the impression that I’m not attending events because I’m mean and don’t like them. (Of course, regardless of my past requests, no one ever takes the initiative to actually contact me over the phone to verify that I received an invitation in the first place.)
Yesterday, while getting a check from the checkbook (I called him to verify that I could take one to pay for a painting class), I noticed an opened B-day invitation and envelope (addressed to the two of us) that was peeking out from under the keyboard of one of his computers…here we go again!
I read the card and wrote down the information prior to putting it back where I had found it. I thought about what to do regarding my discovery…confronting him has always led him to attack my questioning and then treat me like crap…so, simply asking about the invitation wasn’t even a consideration for me.
This morning he handed the invitation to me this morning. (I assume that either one of his cameras recorded a video of me, or perhaps I hadn’t placed the card back into it’s former position and got caught. )
He then said that he must have inadvertently placed it in a pile of his work mail. He found it and just a minute before showing it to me, he had opened it!
I told him…NO, I saw the opened invitation yesterday when I got a check from the checkbook.
He repeated that he had just opened it up…I repeated NO, I saw it “opened” yesterday!
He repeated that he had just opened it…No you didn’t…why are you continuing to lie about this when we both know the real truth? He mumbled something about opening it and then walked away.
Unlike him. I would have crumbled and admitted to the truth. Why try to justify a lie even when the truth is so obvious! It’s almost as though he’d have rather have a body part removed (someone else’s, of course) than admit he lied.
Why must these people defend their lies to the point of exhaustion? How nuts is that? Of course, regarding those of us who have believed even 1/3 of their fabricated stories, how do we look to them?
bluejay,
In my last post, when I said the word KEY, I had a vision of a key going into a lock. I know what the key looks like because I can see it. But I can’t see the inside of the lock so how do I know what it looks like? Well if the key fits, then it looks like the reverse of the key.
A sociopath is like a key, because we can see his external behavior. We can study his behavior. In addition to having all the typical socio attitudes he also tailors his behavior to hook us. In that way he reveals our innerselves to us. He reveals our weaknesses, which are how he hooked us AND he reveals our strengths, which are how we escaped him. These are inside of us but we are like a lock and hard to see. The sociopath is the key that helps us see inside our selves.
Knowing about sociopaths also helps us see HOW NOT TO BE. Often times we can rationalize some of our less than moral behavior but seeing what happens to someone who indulges in immoral behavior really helps give us an incentive to re-think that rationalization.
So the biggest reason for studying the P is to learn more about us. There is also the opportunity to help others. That opportunity doesn’t come along every day, but I will FOREVER BE GRATEFUL to the stranger in the sushi bar who saved my life by giving me the benefit of his own experience with narcissists. He suffered at the hands of his malignant n father and n-mother and n-brother.
LL,
watching you go from “why did he do this” to “what is he?” is amazing. I can clearly see that you are “getting it”. He isn’t from this planet, the outer-skin is one he borrowed. Labeling him has allowed you to explore him, define him, put a boundary around him and pour all the things from your WTF? bucket into his gaping mouth and let him swallow them because you have no more use for them. They are his convoluted logic. Trying to make sense of him is like trying to make sense of a schizophrenic. Impossible because they are not experiencing the world in the same way that you and I do. THEY know this and put on a mask to hide it. THEY know that if we could see how they experience the world, we would recoil in disgust and boredom. It would probably be like being transported into a really bad porn film with no plot and being forced to live there for the rest of your life with no escape. aahahaahaahrrrhhhh!
confused,
Am I understanding this correctly by your post that you’re still living with this man?
If so, may I ask why?
I think you made a very critical point, confused. Because that’s exactly what they do. They lie, even when the truth would be easier. He sabotages you by not giving you the invitations or notifying you about them. Creates a lot of drama with others too, right?
All of it, completely unnecessary, it’s just what THEY do.
LL
Sky,
Your post was amazing. I love how clearly you articulate to us all. And you’re RIGHT too 🙂
I really look forward to your posts and that of One too. Well, shoot….everybody here now that i think about it lol!
LL
I just read my previous post as though it had been written by someone else. Reading and responding to “someone else’s” issues distanced me enough to think more about what I had written.
I think I get it! (Ok, I understand a little more, maybe.)
Why do crazy people defend their lies even when the truth is so obvious?…In my case, perhaps my H quickly learned that after repeating his lies enough times, I will eventually become frustrated and just give up fighting. When I ultimately give up…in his mind he has defeated me, maybe?
His lie repetition tactic works well against me because I become BORED into submission.
confused.
I think you’re onto something, but I think the evil within is a bit more sadistic it seems….if you tell this man over and over not to repeat the same behavior and it does it repeatedly, what does that tell you?
I think you’re right about in his mind he has defeated you. You’re also right that if you just give up and don’t confront, and stay….you’re submitting to him. It’s about power and control, Confused.
You’re seem very bright. You’re “getting” his motives.
LL
Skylar,
I love your insights. Yes, one of the most painful things with my husband was that nothing was sacred with him. He took events that I thought should have been special between just us, and he recreated them over and over with others. We were interchangable b/c it was the event that he valued, not the person.
He recreated scenes from tv shows/movies. One time he made a birthday lunch for me on the gazebo of our town hall, a romantic gazebo where everyone entering the town saw that garden area. He hired a man to play the accordian, and table with snow white cloth and a lunch server. All romantic looking to the public, they all loved it. I was mortified at being on display, used to make a picture/an image for him as being the loving romantic husband. It was the talk of the town for days. Townspeople did NOT see that he only talked to the musician, not me. But he did tell everyone I was ungrateful and hated it (which was true but had he done it at the city park where we would have had some privacy I would have been happy.) So he used not just the event but the telling after made himself appear extra good and me extra bad.
AND…Like when I took him to MY swimming spot on the river, sacred to me b/c of it’s serene beauty. That’s where he took woman after woman b/c he knew from me what their reaction would be. Everyone of them thought it was “THEIR” enchanting spot, none realizing it was HIS WIFE who showed it to him in the first place. He utterly destroyed my sacred soul healing place for me.
Yes, recreating the EVENT b/c that is what entertained him, whereas me, my feelings, myexperience as the wife did not matter.