Society Blames the Victim Instead of the Psychopath – I’m Sick of It!

I am not sure why I am still shocked when people choose to blame the psychopath’s victim.  I have heard that this is normal from others who have suffered from an encounter with psychopath, but I still get a bit shocked each time it happens to me.  From friends, to family, to the courts, to complete strangers — people seem to want to find something wrong with me to somehow better explain to themselves how I ended up being fooled by my psychopath ex.  It has been happening so long that sometimes I find myself wondering there is something wrong with me that made me ignore the red flags and believe the completely fantastic story he was telling me.

The Judgements:

This week alone, I have experienced both friends and family trying to psycho analyze me and question how I ended up with such a monster as the father of my son.  I am not sure how to respond to people when they ask me absurd questions or decide that it was somehow my fault that I ended up being conned by Luc.  Here are some of the things I have heard over the past year (the first two were said just this week):

1)   “CQ, really”¦how did this happen?  What were you thinking?  I mean, please don’t feel as if I am blaming you”¦but how did you not see this coming?”  –  An old friend

2)  ”I know what happened”¦.I think CQ must like to be controlled by an abusive man.”  –  A family member (behind my back)

3)  ”Let’s be honest”¦you wanted a bad boy”¦so you are now getting what you asked for and deserve.  My daughter, who is your age, would never be in this situation because she doesn’t like bad boys.  She is marrying a man who wears suits and collared shirts.”  –  My Lawyer

4)  ”You are not without fault here CQ, what you saw in this man”¦well, it must have been fairy dust”¦and now the fairy dust has disappeared and you are going to have to deal with him for at least the next 18 years.”  –  The Judge in our Custody War

5)  ”You didn’t have a problem with him touching you, so you shouldn’t be so bothered that he is now touching your son.”

–  Family member

My Reality:

The hardest thing for people to understand, it seems, is how a person can be conned by someone who is so clearly dysfunctional.  My response to that is, “when a person’s full time job is to learn everything about you — your hopes, dreams, weaknesses — in order to exploit and con you — you will likely end up conned.”  I have used the analogy before of the frog and the boiling water and in this case I can’t think of another analogy that would prove my point any better.  Psychopaths control the boiling water.  They know that if they threw their victims into a pot of boiling water, most people would jump right out screaming and cursing at them.  Instead, they slowly bring the water to boil with the intension of burning their victims alive.

Every time I walk into court, I feel like I am holding my heart inside of my chest with my bear hands.  This process, this war, with Luc has torn me apart from the inside out.  Luc’s boiling water effectively ripped me apart, but sometimes I feel as if the judgement and misunderstanding I receive from those I love (and society at large) is worse.  I went from being a beautiful, self confident, intelligent, and successful woman — to a victim of a completely misunderstood abuse.  Luc burned me alive, but society continues to blame me as if I willingly jumped into a burning fire along side satan.

The Future:

I want my son to know his mama as the woman I was — but wiser.  I dread the day when my son might join society and make judgements about what happened with his father.  Will he understand how his father used my kindness against me?  Will he understand why I tried to hold the relationship together even when it seemed clear to the rest of the world that it was a hopeless situation?  Will he understand why I fought so hard to protect him from a man I once trusted?

It’s easy to think about all the horrible things Luc is and ignore the things that attracted me to this man.  While many of the things that attracted me to Luc were not real (most of them were completely fake actually), there are good qualities in Luc.  (Yes, you read that correctly)  Despite the fact that my family refuses to see anything of Luc in baby boy, this is not the stance I will take as baby boy’s mother.  Luc wasn’t born evil — he made choices.  He took his talents and used them for evil.  For example, being charming is not a bad thing if you don’t use it to manipulate and control others.  Being a good actor isn’t a bad thing as long as you use it on stage to entertain instead of to lie and cheat.

I love baby boy for everything that he is and that means that I accept the fact that he is the product of what now feels like a violent emotional rape.  I refuse to make my son feel bad for carrying half of the psychopath’s genes and I also refuse to lie to him.  So while I kick myself every day for not paying attention to the now obvious red flags of Luc’s psychopathy, and I suffer through the constant judgements I receive from others, I would do it all over again for baby boy.  I didn’t choose what Luc really is — but I will choose baby boy every day for the rest of my life.

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77 Comments on "Society Blames the Victim Instead of the Psychopath – I’m Sick of It!"

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C’queen, very good article and I think one that many of us if not ALL of us can relate to.

We are blamed for “being stoooopid” or for “wanting it” etc.

I think part of the problem though is the fact that in way too many cases two personality disordered people will hook up, then the “gasoline and fire” relationship EXPLODES…..and the losing party of the two PDs presents themselves as a victim.

I’ve heard cops talking about how they hated domestic violence calls where the man is beating the woman because many times when they try to restrain the man, the woman attacks them.

THAT is the kind of thing that gives “victims” a “bad name”—that and I think that people’s own arrogance in “MY son/daughter would never do THAT!” or “I would never do THAT”–yea, right! It makes the person who is looking down their nose at your “stoopidity” feel better about THEMSELVES.

It makes them feel SAFER.

(head shaking here) but it makes you feel worse.

One of the things I was taught as a nursing professional was to NEVER SAY to a grieving person “I know how you feel” because it is an INSULT to presume to know how someone else feels.

A few days after my husband’s death a “friend” said to me “I KNOW how you feel” and it “flew all over me”—I know she didn’t INTEND to be offensive, but she WAS very offensive with her comment. She did NOT know how I felt. She COULD not know how Ii felt because NOTHING EVEN CLOSE TO THE EXPERIENCE I had had in losing my husband the way I lost him was in her life.

Many times here on LF though we DO say “I understand your feelings” because we have been through the same HOT HELLISH FIRES WITH PSYCHOPATHS and while we may not “Know” exactly how someone else feels we do UNDERSTAND their feelings, we know WHY they feel like they do.

People on the “outside” who have not dealt with a psychopath really don’t know what they are talking about, but they THINK they do, and that’s the worst part, and they are “judgmental” about it as well.

Unfortunately, this is something that we must learn to expect and work around or ignore.

Good article C’queen!

June 2011, I sat at my mother’s kitchen table with a big swollen black eye and stitches in my face. I don’t even remember exactly what we were talking about other than that it was about my relationship, but mother looked at me and said, verbatim —

“I never knew you were so desperate for a boyfriend that you were willing to be abused.”

I’m truly disgusted by people’s comments. Each time I loose my respect for them and I think they are so stupid. (my anger goes off again…)

I’m not a very christian person, but the words of Jesus: “Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do.” suddenly strikes another meaning to me.

Well, the best comment I’ve got from several friends and family are:
“Ok, so you got raped. You let it happen.” and then they laugh at me.

WTF???!!!! Yeah sure I did it just for the fun of it! IDIOTS!


There’s always an ignoramous in the room! You are not flawed, failed or any other word against you.

I looked in the mirror and had some insight last night and I know I am going to be looking through my eyes with wisdom as I age and that was alot better than the sadness I have been seeing.

I, too, thought the world was more evolved than that. I have had the same stuff flung at me. It hurts but with time you will feel they just don’t get it no more than you could understand being paraplegic or something.

The parents of my high school 18 year long spath came to my door 20 years later and apologized to me saying they never wanted to believe it was their son. It was too little too late as I was hurt by all of them but it was bitter sweet and validating and I did appreciate their efforts.

My father said to me when I was fairly young “I could see your sister going through this but not you” after a DV incident. I said, “I guess we’ve found my weakness”. It was true. It was more about how I was programmed and less about “smarts”. My choices were more about empathy and non-judgement than about IQ. Remember the “type” of women who are targetted.

As far as your son goes, you just need to be you. The most terrifying part of my 10 year old daughter being forced to meet her bio-hazard dad, was that I protected her innocense and I knew it was about to be stolen at age 10! It was. But she is wiser for it. I would have laid my life on the doorstep of that courthouse to stop it from happening as my fears were much like yours. I felt I had failed her by protecting from who and what he was. Now I was ordered not to speak of what he IS or it would be PAS. We went through a lot of tears and talks in the past 3 plus years. She hates him. It isn’t because of me. It’s due to his determination to tear me down in her eyes to bring himself up. Maybe I should thank him someday. As your chlid gets older, he will be wiser than the kids who don’t know of these types. He will see kind smart girls falling for the spaths in training at school. He will know what happened to you and he will understand.

I make sure to let my daughter know, it’s not her fault and I stress the fact that she got all his “good genes”. I also let her know she has been raised differently than he was or I was which I find empowers her to stand as her own person. Every sane court psychologist has loved my daughter and speak of the bond we have and how she articulates her feelings better than a professional. You are going to have these opportunities too. The childhood trauma specialist I took her to said my daughter totally sees who and what her father is. All I cared about was the affect this all was having on her. I have also seen my clients raise sons from birth out with a psycho on their butt the entire time and they love their mamas. You will see.

If you buy any of those ignoramouses christmas gifts, make it “snakes in suits” or “sociopath next door”. It may just scare the crap out of them…….


I went through many of the issues that you’re facing.

For starters, what I told my son depended on his age. When he was younger, say six through twelve, I would tell him that right now, Daddy chooses not to make us a part of his life. Why? I do not know, but for now there is nothing that we can do about it.

I was extremely cautious with what I said to him because I did not want to give him false hopes or impressions.

I made sure to add, “If Daddy changes his mind and wants us in his life, we will consider it, but we cannot forget that Daddy has hurt both of us and how much. You are safe when you are with me. I will protect you. Before I let him near either of us, I need reassurances from him that isn’t just to hurt us again and that he has really changed. If he can prove that to us, then we will welcome him and include him in our life.”

One of the things that you are up against, as you will discover as your son gets older, is he has a fantasy of his own that if he just says or does the right thing, Daddy is going to love and want him some day.

We saw a prime example of that with my son’s oldest half-brother. He got an apartment in the same neighborhood as their father thinking if he lived close enough, Daddy would visit, want him to visit, and they’d have a relationship. It doesn’t matter if he lives in the same house or on the moon. The man doesn’t care about his children.

Phrasing things very carefully protects your child. My son now understands that his father, his aunt, my P sister, and my S mother, were born bad. He understands that they are all missing the part of the brain that governs remorse, compassion, and empathy and that the part of the brain that remains drives them to hurt others and they don’t care.

Teaching my son this enabled him to give up the fantasies that he must have done something wrong, that there must be something bad about him that makes these people not want to love him, and that some day this will all be over, everybody will love each other, and we’ll be one big happy family. That’s not true. It will never happen. Explaining things to my son in this way has made no contact much easier.

I was very careful not to badmouth his father in front of my son and I was adamant that nobody else ran his father down in front of him either.

Children absorb things incorrectly and one of those things is if they hear that a parent is bad, then they must be bad as well so I wasn’t setting this boundary because of any love for the P; I was doing it out of love for my son. I knew he was going to have daddy issues later in life.

Anything that I could do to mitigate those issues now I was willing to do. You need to reassure him that he is safe with you and you will protect him to the extent that you can. Since I cannot anticipate everything that they might do, we can protect ourselves by recognizing them for what they are, accepting that they lie, and having no contact.

I was very fortunate that my son’s paternal grandmother saw his father as I did. She despise him for hurting his children the way that he did. They were her grandchildren. She was very good to my son when he was alive and very loving to both of us. I used to call her “the best mother-in-law I never had.”

My son is now 19. My P sister attacked us when my son was 14 and drove him to thinking that suicide was his only solution to dealing with the family. He was hospitalized twice within nine months for suicide ideation. Other things happened as well.

Fourteen was a little young to let him know that yes, these family members were born bad, but it was necessary. He didn’t buy it immediately, but he certainly gets it now. In fact, he nicknamed my sister “Satan’s Daughter.”

People are going to say all sorts of crap to you and about you. Believe it or not, there are also going to be people who have drawn the same conclusions that you have, have seen the bad behavior, believe you, and support you.

If somebody had made a comment to me that suggested touching my son inappropriately was all right on any level, that person would have been immediately out of my life.

You cannot change what people think. You can control who you are willing to listen to and include in your life. If you take anything away from what I am saying here, please take away that last sentence.

I had to choose between protecting my precious son’s life or pleasing people around me. It was no contest.

To this day I will make no apologies for doing what I think is right or best for my child.

As far as the Ps go, I will believe it is finally over with them when they are dead and buried or put away in prison for life.


I full on agree with what you said. I have done the same and while my daughter is 13 and the hormone party is just starting, we are doing well at this time. I used the word “choices” a lot. I made choices, he made choices and so on. I was advised to do this. I also had learned through many years of counseling that my feelings were not up for debate and are mine. Same for others feelings. That seems to have been a very good lesson in our lives for my daughter as she’s aware of something I wasn’t which was “you MAKE me feel like this or that”. Um no I cannot MAKE you feel anything.

There are a few other things but I also did not speak poorly of her father and didn’t allow anyone else to either. She did get impressions I feel that people who cared for me didn’t care too much for him for some reason.

They will be wiser.


Right you are.

Another thing to get over is fairness. This has nothing to do with fairness. Ps do not do what they do out of fairness, ergo, we didn’t (and cannot) do anything that causes others to act the way that they do. We ran up against that when my P sister and S mother attacked, and also with the courts, e.g., the courts wouldn’t decide…

Yes, the courts would decide because they can’t be bothered to ascertain the facts and the court system is terribly flawed.

Ask your teenager to point out what you could have possible done wrong to deserve what happened or the pain that either of you experienced. My son couldn’t think of anything. I told him that’s because these people don’t need a reason. The way their minds think they hurt others just for the fun of it, like kids who bully other kids in school. That helped him get it.

We still have contact with some family members, but they are very few. My S mother and P sister did a good job spreading their venom about me and nobody bothered to ask for my side of the story. The relatives who listened to them are from my mother’s side of the family.

It turns out, once I started talking about what they did, that my father’s side of the family doesn’t care much for my mother at all and never did. My father’s side of the family is much smaller than my mother’s so that’s why we have contact with so few of our relatives.

What I did that helped my son a lot was tell him to envision our family all riding in a plane that crashed and burned with no survivors. That does happen in real life and people learn to make new lives without these people. That’s what we need to do and what we have did. We’re several years out now from that decision. Our lives are calm, happy, and if an issue pops up, which it has from time to time, we can deal with it swiftly. We cannot keep them away, but we know what to do to send the message that they are not welcomed in our lives.

I take after my father’s side of the family both in appearance and personality, as does my son, so that helps him a lot establishing a base of where he belongs.

I read a book by Kevin Hearne a few weeks ago. One of his more astute observations came from Oberon the dog: “But you said this is America, where opinions are shouted as facts and facts are dismissed as mere opinions.” (I had to paraphrase. Sorry if I didn’t get it exactly right.)

There’s something about our society today that makes folks think as though it’s their God-given right to weigh in on any matter, regardless of how much a person actually knows.

I have had a similar experience with telling people I have fibromyalgia. Even total strangers tell me it’s because I’m not taking care of myself. I stopped telling people unless I absolutely have to.


There are still medical professionals who do not believe that “fibromyalgia” is “real” and ones who do not believe in “Chronic fatigue” but that doesn’t mean they are not real.

I frequently remember that there was a time when essentially Columbus was the “only” one in the world who believed it was round, but that did NOT CHANGE THE SHAPE OF THE WORLD.

Truth is truth and facts are facts, even if you are the ONLY one in the world to believe them. We must learn to validate ourselves.


That’s great advice.

When my daughter felt like this was all her fault and became suicidal and self harming for a short stint, I said to her, “can you make this stop?” She said, ‘no”. I said, “there’s the proof it is not you”. I also spoke to her this way when she was younger about why her dad left her or she didn’t have a dad. I was hearing things like “was I a good baby?” and I had a feeling she was wondering if she ran him off. I said to her she was the best baby I could’ve hoped for or dreamed of. I also told her from time to time there’s no way we can make anyone stop doing something we don’t like any more than we can make them do something we want.

That childhood trauma counselor said she would probably have the hardest time understanding rejection from the extended family not knowing why they didn’t “pick” her and stood by him.

Eralyn, GREAT question that you asked your daughter. I’m going to remember that one.

I have trouble understanding why the extended family picks them and not us.

I can accept that’s how things are, but emotionally, it still hurts me and I don’t understand it. I try to put it behind me and move on, but everytime family holidays or functions come up, it’s all back in our faces again. It hurts even more because I have to be the strong one for my son and show him how we can do it differently. It’s gotten a little less painful as the years go on, but never would I have envisioned this for us.

I keep telling myself that it’s only 24 hours and tomorrow is another day.

CappuccinoQueen, if I could reach out and hold you tight, I would. {{{{{HUGS}}}}

Your own attorney said that to you?! Oh, my…..I’d be looking for another one. Sheeeesh

Victim-blame is so common that it’s one of the reasons that victims of domestic violence balk at filing charges or restraining orders or TELLING someone about what’s going on.

I’m so sorry, CQueen. Hugs to you


I had similar fears and it sounds like the same attorneys! It is the longest, worst, sick, fear along with being humiliated with lies and injustice as if you are insignificant while blowing your mind and breaking your core beliefs.

When you know the person is dangerous and you are forced to hand over what you naturally feel more protective of than anything in your life, it betrays reality.

You can get through this. It’s the only way. I watched the news every morning and evening and hoped my nightmare would end and I would see him on there as a fatality of a traffic accident or any other thing. I went through this when she was your sons age too. I had 3 years orders of protection against him her first years of life and he didn’t abide by any of them and never got into trouble for breaking them. Some did KNOW what he was though. When I was still believing the “christian” card, a police officer came to my home when my address showed up, yet again, and said “please, I don’t want to come here and see you and that baby harmed! I see through this guy and he’s going to stop at nothing! You are the best thing that will cross his path and you must protect your child!” I was stunned BUT I HEARD HIM. He had no reason to say this except to try to get through to me. I believed 2 dead cats in my front yard one morning were probably hit by a car. HE PUT THEM THERE. It wasn’t until 2 years later someone got through to me on that one. UGH!

It is no fun but it is a time where I felt God was punishing me or as my daughter said this round “God must not like you very much”….hhmm I had strangers who know the system tell me to keep my faith as at times you have to believe in some higher power when it is out of your control, your son is going to be ok. I know that is a task nobody should have to go through.

Remember this is a strategic mission not a front line type mission. You have to use your mind a lot. I wrote anything down I could find to be positive in my gratitude journal. Anything that would buy time and help turn the tide. Has this guy been convicted of any crimes? Do you have anything in your corner that you know he’ll hang himself with if given enough rope?

C’queen, my own sperm donor freely admitted to murder….but though I personally know of TWO he killed, neither of which was in the US—he did get tossed out of one country for being suspected for that one murder—he never got nailed either.

He cheated on his taxes for decades and then got rich, stinking filthy rich, and still didn’t pay any and the IRS charged him BIG TIME and believe it or not, he beat it with “I didn’t know I was supposed to pay any.” The only consolation I get out of it is that two of his 7 x wives managed to get huge settlements from him which I think they EARNED….so I was glad to see it.

The best thing he ever did for me was to get VD and my egg donor caught him cheating and left him…and I didn’t grow up with him. Unfortunately, I wanted to get to know him and I DID get to KNOW HIM in every sense of the word. Unfortunately his DNA went through me to my son Patrick who is a CLONE of him in so many ways.

Cap queen,
You can’t change Luc, or the evil people in the system. You can only change you.

First I will tell you about a woman I met. She was on the verge of being homeless, so I offered to let her rent my house in exchange for work. She began to love bomb me and call me “Island Angel”. (the house is on an island) When she saw my house she began to tell me that the trees would have to be cut down because she needed light. (Timber is worth money) She said that she would sell everything that was in the house. She was trying to fleece me before I even gave her a key! I just watched in awe, taking notes.

Well the reason I’m telling you about her is because she said she usually works as an advocate for children in the court system. She was applying for another job and said this is what she’s best at. BTW, she had lost her own two kids to her husband. One of them is “special needs”.

I truly believe that spaths are attracted to any job that has DRAMA. And court, especially family court, is full of drama.

“Send lawyers, guns and money.” are the lyrics from a song.

Lawyers, cops and money are all part of any television drama.

My spath tried to invoke them all. The only ones he got were the cops because they were in his pocket.

So… back to what you can do. Avoid drama at all costs.
Play dead — but not too dead, that’s dramatic.

Accept the fact that you are not dealing with a situation that others understand.

As far as what to say to those dildos who think they are better than you…say this,

“When a person has only good in their heart, they can’t imagine a heart as dark as Luc’s. It was BEYOND MY IMAGINATION and he knew it. That is how Satan tricks us. We can’t even imagine what evil looks like. I’m glad that (you, your daughter, your son or whoever) is able to imagine how evil personified appears. I could not. A person who appears to love me, also appeared to have a good heart. I’m no longer so innocent, it was ripped from me, but I was at the time.”

Cap queen, there is a lesson here for you to learn and it is about keeping your cards close to your vest. I know, it’s not in my nature either. I used to be and still am, an open book, but I work hard at not being soooo open.

Speaking of books… profit from your mistakes, write a book, help other women and men learn. You are articulate and eloquent. Even more, your emotions need to be channeled somewhere, so that Luc doesn’t eat them. Instead, make money. maybe you’ll make enough for your son’s tuition, thanks to Luc. I would so LOVE to see you get the last laugh that way.


Ugh! It’s awful. It’s not for the faint of heart. I don’t understand other than thinking he must be a snitch of some sort to get away with that much but stranger things have happened.

I hope he hangs himself with his antics and gets too confident and trips up. I was told to get it outside the family court. Bankruptcy court, IRS, criminal court and/or any other regulatory board to push and push hard. If that’s possible. I hit from every angle. From every connection and organization I found. Family court and playing by their rules is a grueling beating. My only vision of some justice came in the form of a psychologist getting his licensed revoked after an over 2 year investigation who was helping psycho. I did go after the minions that I could but it was a lot of work. The assistant state attorney ended up in my corner though. I was a presence at their Domestic Relations Committee meetings which was the committee charged with changing the wording in the child custody laws. I just kept telling my story. I even met with the Secretary of State here as a client of mine knew him since he was a young boy. I am not sure what helped and what was wasted energy but I just kept going.

One of the motivating factors was running out of money and lawyers, time and energy. I had to be the squeakiest wheel but in a respectable way. I really looked like a POW at times and still kind of do.

He kept getting bigger and then things started turning around. He now is being sued by a real estate company and has an order of protection filed by somebody else which he went to court to fight and they ordered him into some type of counseling. Family court said even though a grown man filed an order of protection against him, it wouldn’t help me protect my daughter until he actually hurt the guy. I even told the jury duty people what was happening in my case as I kept having to get out of jury duty as the family court was ordering me around everywhere. I was surprised at how mad they were.

It’s a fine line between telling facts you have the evidence to prove and telling some you don’t but I always let them know what I could back up and what I couldn’t. I know other moms who have said I have gotten farther in my 3 + years than they got in 12. I also helped anyone I could along the way to get help and we kind of started tag teaming and helping each other with connections and who to trust and not trust in the system. You may have already done all of this but if not maybe my sharing will help.

Then when he’s busy fighting off whoever is all over his butt he’s too busy to bother me and my daughter.


There’s a movement to stop child abuse by the courts. I have been dealing with Safe Kids International and the Center for Judicial Excellence in CA but they are working nationally. I follow them under a different name on facebook. There is also Lawless America and you can tell your story to congress through a documentary but you have to reach out to them. Bill Windsor has been traveling around the US filming protective mothers who have lost their children or lost everything in family court.

I hope it’s not a problem to give you this info here but I felt like you should know who I have found that is actually shouting out loud. You may know of them. If not check them out.

There’s also the blog “Let’s Get Honest” and it tells what is actually going on why we can’t penetrate family court corruption. The author lost her children 12 years ago to family court and she’s exposing all of it. It’s a tough read and about non-profits and government spending but there is a movement going on against single mothers in our country. Billions are being spent to get fathers to “man up” but instead a lot of abusers are using the resources to reduce child support and by abusers, I am talking men and women. Mothers used to get the children but not anymore. Hope it helps somebody………..

CQueen, I think that Skylar’s response is spot-on. This whole thing is about learning. It’s a TERRIBLE price to pay for any lesson, I know. The “best” and most memorable lessons for me are the most painful to recover from. If things are seemingly “good,” I tend to retain the “lesson” far less than the ones that leave the scars.

This court situation – from visitation supervisor to your own attorneys – is all about drama/trauma. It’s not about justice, what’s “right,” or even what makes farking SENSE. It’s about MONEY and “The System.”

Absolutely, playing “dead” to a degree will give less fuel to pour on the fire. I forget who responded a while back, but DRESS UP at visitation exchange and actually go OUT and do something that appeals to you. No, you are not going to feel “happy” about any of this until baby boy is independent and on his own, or Luc meets an untimely demise. For the next 18 years, Luc is going to be a part of this picture. Accept this fact. There is nothing that you, personally, can do to change this fact OR the system that supports it.

But, you CAN take action on your own behalf by checking out the information that Eralyn provided. Hell, I didn’t even know about these organizations/endeavors until I read about them, just this moment! Change comes from WITHIN before it ever is successful outside.

Brightest and most supportive blessings to you

The fundamental issue is truth versus lies. That is where it starts. And from there you can extrapolate up a level, good vs evil. I don’t believe evil exists except for the foundation of lies.

May I recommend, truthy, two books.

First, “the four agreements”.

When you are done with that, read “the fifth agreement”.

Your understanding of everything will change.




Did you read those books??


Yes. Both.

Huge huge help in both my understanding and in my recovery.
I carry one or the other in my purse all the time. Seriously.

Somebody on this site recommended them to me. I am sorry to say I don’t remember who.


For those who haven’t been to Lovefraud in awhile, Cappuccino Queen’s baby boy did not return alive from his last court-ordered visit with his father. More info is on this thread:


NOBODY better be picking on her! Somebody better be protecting her from those who like to blame the VICTIM! I hope she feels our love, hugs and support.

My heart is sad again!!!


You did not fail him! Go read what you wrote about never throwing in the towel. I know what family law is like and others in it and who have dealt with it know. They strip you of your power. They are a bunch of paid bullies!! You are a law abiding. loving. protective mother. Custody was threatened if you made an issue out of your motherly instincts. You were not put in a fair position to make choices and you did what was right in a very wrong situation with a SICK SICK man. You did everything you could.

CappaccinoQueen, You were correct.


I reread a few of those posts a bit ago and I felt so sad.

I hope you have people around you to lift you up or prop you up and help you be strong and who help you get through this without blame or adding to the natural second guessing. You need reassurance right now.

C Queen~
I can’t put into words how much your journey has touched my life, my heart and renewed determination.
Please know…..there are 1000’s of people out here that you don’t know, or will ever meet…. that you and your baby’s lives have touched.
We are standing behind you in thought, prayers, strength, tears and spirit darling. Please know this.


ErinBrock is 100% correct. You and Baby Boy have helped and ARE helping thousands of people. Not because it’s your job or anything, but just in your Being and Sharing yourself, in all your passion and dignity and raw honesty and love for your child. Thank you.

I have never been through anything like your current nightmare, but I will say one thing: I don’t think ANY of us *should* have worries about “basic survival” consuming us (I don’t mean it shouldn’t be a concern or awareness — just that it should not be a consuming worry). The hopes and dreams are good things! Finding joy in everyday blessings — good things! No one, and I mean NO ONE can predict the future. We cannot live our lives in fear of the worst happening. I may be expressing this awkwardly, but I am just thinking about how I have noticed all along from you, how despite what you were up against (truly awful things), you ALWAYS have found joy and delight in your loving relationship with your son. As it should be. You let it flow in abundance, and that is a blessing from you, back at you, and to anyone who has ever noticed and WITNESSED your sharing. You ARE love.

God bless you, cappucinoqueen.

CappuccinoQueen, right now, you “should” be a mess, dear heart. You’re in the middle of an experience that no parent should ever have.

Take this time and hold it for yourself. Grieve. Rage. Shout. Scream. Cry. Do it all and “allow” yourself to experience this tragedy. Remaining “strong” throughout this horrible process won’t change things – it will only turn every aspect of this tragedy in onto yourself, and you don’t need that, and you do not deserve it.

Although you’re going to “feel” that you “failed,” you know – you know this on an academic level – that you didn’t fail anyone or anything. The System failed in every way, shape, and form. Later, you will be able to “feel” this in addition to “knowing” it.

Surround yourself with the supportive people who have stood beside you throughout this dark journey. Let them hold you up and help whenever they can. ASK for their support, as well. Those who are honest and supportive friends and family will respond without conditions. Those who don’t aren’t required in your life.

As time passes and all of the desperation begins to dissipate, there will be a “direction.” Baby Boy’s brief time on this earth will “mean” something important to those who never held him on their shoulders, smelled the scent of his baby hair, or heard him gurgle with pleasure at simply being. Your fight, his fight, and the tens of thousands of other parents out there who are still IN the fight or perparing FOR the fight need you and Baby Boy. They need your experiences. This shall all come in due time.

Your focus is now upon yourself, CQueen. Don’t concern yourself with providing details or updates, right now. Your personal grief is your only concern, right now. We are all here, and we’ll all BE here when sufficient time has passed for your experiences.

May Great Creator – God – hold you and Baby Boy in his perfect and loving arms. May you find comfort and solace in the aftermath of this terrible, tragic loss. And, may you feel the love and support of each of us in the depths of your heart when the days, hours, and minutes seem the darkest.

Most sincere blessings of love, support, and comfort to you


You made me think of something. All crises or tragedies (any sort) that are this personal, it is natural and I think healthy to not suppress any thoughts or feelings, the good and the bad. So I hope I have not done that.

It is hard enough to go through grieving with a tragedy such as this, without people saying how one “should” or “should not” feel. So even though I know that, I hope I didn’t say something counter to that before (well meaning though I am).

I guess I mean, a space to have freedom to process, however you want, without too much commentary from outsiders (but still holding/supporting in that protective space) is good.

So I am sorry if I have said a wrong thing, or said it clumsily.

I have certainly been in a place, at times, where outsider commentary gets to me, because I’m in a time of sorting through complex experience and feelings, and that is very personal (only I can do it) and takes time.

You are right, Truthspeak.

20Years, I don’t believe that you gave anyone “The Should,” at all!

And, yeah….sometimes, people mean well, but they don’t always choose the right sequence of words. When people say, “I know what you mean,” or, “I know how you feel,” and they clearly don’t, it tends to minimize the personal experiences of the person who’s hurting and in need of support.

Absolutely – it’s “okay” and “normal” to feel. And, it’s vital to feel the experiences, no matter how painful they are. If we disallow ourselves the experience of the feelings, it’s the same thing as telling ourselves, “Get over it.” And, that’s simply not kind or helpful.

You’re fine, 20Years. Hugs to you

Dearest C’Queen,

I read your blog this morning with tears in my eyes. If we were face to face, I would simply hug you very tightly. There are no words, no words that can adequately express my feelings.

You and your family are forever in my prayers.


You said how you hope that it will turn out to have been caused by something inevitable noone is responsible for.

I hope it too, and I understand where that hope comes from for myself at least. The loss itself is harsh and painful all on its own already, without having to deal with evil intent on top of it.

I hope for you it is so.

Thank you for sharing the feelings and experiences that we victims share …. knowing there is support is so helpful…we need to unite to fight! Common phrases reported by sociopaths re their “victims”:
“Nice (person) is another word for stupid”!
“Nice (person) is a sucker”!

These ‘paths have the common carny attitude…and see goodness as their garden to pick (clean)!

Yes, attribution errors…blame the victim! How many years did we hear that women rape victims “were to blame…they dressed too well, wore make up… and much worse”! The courts, in many ways, facilitate “legalism” and “bias”.

I recently spoke with adult son of a “mutual victim” of a female sociopath who held such hostility towards his mother for “being stupid” as her finances and reputation were devastated. After informing him of factual statistics…he realized, he too, had been victimized AND said “my mother is a victim of a crime” … and changed his attitude, thank God, towards his senior mother.

This woman had called for law enforcement assistance and she reported “this man was rude; hung up saying, call me if you need something”! Shocking, but true. This woman was robbed and threatened… and the female sociopath used law enforcement to “cover” for her….a very charming sociopath!!

It would be great research to see how “sociopaths” utilize the legal system to further their paths.

My prayers for all victims of malignant narcissists, sociopaths…and like all evil, the evil ones come to “rob, kill and steal”… victims need prayers, support and light to help them with recovery!!!!

There is strength in numbers; I say unite in the fight against ‘ppaths evil!

I think my least favorite comment to date is.
” You know that’s on you. If you wouldn’t be how you are they wouldn’t bother you.”
It’s not surprising the victim gets the blame, this is a psychopathic society. In order for the larger society to understand the victim it would first have to see it’s own problem.


One comment that sticks in my mind for YEARS was said by my father to me at lunch and it went something like this,
“I could see you driving a man to hit you”. WTH? WTF? This is after a serious physical beat down by my “first love”. He basically gave him persmission and blamed me.

I know more now and I understand my father said it to justify his own beatings and lack of self control. Although it confused me and I believe helped the cycle continue, I learned later how sick that statement is.

I remember when I packed and moved to a different state saying to my friend that was there, “I bring out the worst in the men I love and I don’t know why”. It almost felt like I moved to SPARE THEM! YUCK!

Eralyn, I have come to understand that I don’t bring out the worst in the men I love, and that I don’t bring them to the point of beating me up…..I am just attracted to men who, at some level, seem to “love me” the same way I have always been loved…..They are self-centered, entitled narcissists who love-bomb. Period. I fall for it because it’s what I know. Then I resist, and I get a black eye, a broken rib, or a broken spirit.
I was only sticking up for myself. If I didn’t do that, I would have despised myself.
There was something wrong with me, though. That is where my recovery truly lies. Finding out what THAT is.


Luckily I got into therapy and learned how sick my fathers statement was along with my own.

I remember consciously “standing still” when it came to men as I had a daughter who would be an innocent victim had I introduced to her my disfunction. I attempted to date a little when she was about 3 years old but I was so afraid I could bring danger to our home that I just said “forget it”.

I remain “standing still” as I know my picker’s broken and I don’t trust myself to see the red flags and my mistake could still affect her. I simply choose not to take that chance. I do have male friends and they understand.

I am sorry you have experienced the same BS I have. At least we have both taken the path of recovery……….

I remember “family services” asked me “do you think you have been abused (by spath1)?” I said, “I don’t know”. They both looked at each other like “do you believe what she said?”!! (I had a twisted rib along with many bruises and and inability to turn my head) They asked me what I thought happened and I said “a bad fight”. They both tag teamed me so I didn’t leave there thinking that for another day. On the road I went to find out what it was they knew that I obviously had no clue about.

Eralyn and Kim,
I understand. I didn’t know that I was being abused either. We had verbal fights and that didn’t seem strange to me because that is also what I had at home with my parents. And they fought verbally with each other. At least my spath didn’t hit me like my parents had. Further, my parents never spoke lovingly toward me, but spath did.

Instead, spath went into covert abuse, poisoning, gas lighting, and slandering me. Financially devastating me while eliciting pity for himself.

So we had 2 things against us. We didn’t know what abuse looked like and the spaths were extremely covert about the things that we WOULD have recognized.

I think that this is where their testing comes in. They test to see where our boundaries are. Then they abuse overtly JUST to that boundary. The rest of the abuse goes on also, but it’s hidden.

Perhaps the best strategy is not to show any boundaries and let them show their true colors. I don’t know. Spath showed his true colors the first time I left him but he came begging me for another chance and I gave it to him.

That’s the biggest mistake and one I will never make again: second chances.


I had no boundaries or barely any. It nearly got me killed. The grand finale consisted of 4 cop cars an ambulence and a paramedic although it seemed like an overreaction to me.

Here’s how good spaths are: He’s in the home I own! They are taking me away as something snapped in him and he knew I could die and as he was stating “I’m going away for a while” (I think it was the amount of blood) Then he comes up with a story (I am incoherent and wishing I would just bleed to death already) his story was I was attempting suicide and he was fighting me to stop me!! HUH?! He was yelling “she couldn’t take it anymore. It was the drugs”. HUH?? So they drug tested me. (clean) There’s their first clue they had the WRONG damned person. They left him in MY HOME!!! He was good enough to call my counselor from the back room and when he asked if he beat me, spath1 said “YES” because the police would only hear “yes”. He also wrote a letter that was very incriminating which I still have today.

Thank God my counselor is who he is. He came to the ER. He explained to them what happened. I have to say there were some seriously cruel people there who thought I was a repeat in their ER!! I thought “this was so degrading, if I had tried to kill myself, I would make sure to do it correctly just to avoid their disrespectful treatment!”

My counselor told me the story the police heard. I went to the police two days later with 30ish stitches, black and blue all over and they said “it’s a he said, she said and we don’t know that you didn’t do all that to yourself!” This was back in 1996 so they’ve singin’ that tune since then. I am so sick of paying for crazy women I could throw up.

wow Eralyn,
This is why we need to document, document, document everything. Spaths are such great liars. Presentation is everything.

I wonder if you could sue the police for failing to protect you. The moment they said “we don’t know that you didn’t do all that to yourself”, they fail to protect you.


They have failed and failed and failed until I could no longer deny the descrimination. They wouldn’t do anything when the order of protection was violated. There was always an excuse. It got so ridiculous that I actually was checking prices to have a human (man) sit at my residence in a body guard position and he could hold down the abuser until the police came and then testify to what he witnessed. I probably should have gone that route as we never believe the money is worth spending. After all is said and done, that would have been less expensive than what came in the future……………….

This (Lovefraud) sure is a nice place. As I’m reading over the past few comments, I’m thinking… I sure wish there had been something like this back when I was going to the domestic violence support group. It was VERY HARD for me to FORCE myself to go to the group, and then I ended up feeling like the physical abuse I endured was nothing compared to the women who had the broken bones, stitches, bruises… and honestly in a small town, it was not anonymous which was one of the things that would have been helpful. I’m not saying it wasn’t helpful, but Lovefraud is waaaaay better. I know the “purpose” here is not specifically to deal with “abuse” but rather “sociopaths who perpetrate Lovefraud.”

But this is a supportive, gentle, encouraging place and I appreciate all of you. No one here compares notes on whose abuse was worse. That sounds like a simple thing, but truly everyone here is incredibly validating. Thank you.

And one thing I have found over the years (it has been about 14 years now since I left my abusive ex-spath husband) is that there are layers of abuse, layers of recovery. I have spent YEARS now going over and over this, sometimes feeling like I’m spinning my wheels (a plateau?) before I pierce through another layer, getting deeper to the core. I have come a long way in my understanding, and I know I’m not done yet.

It is just so complicated! And, speaking to the topic of this particular essay… it hurts real bad when people blame you or don’t believe you! Or minimize what you’ve gone through or try to explain it away. Now, I always just say, “well Bless You that you have never gone through something like this, I realize it is not possible to understand if you have not experienced it yourself.”

I also recall, over the years, random meetings (I’m thinking of your “gray rock” guy, Skylar) at various random places (bars, waiting in line, wherever you might strike up a conversation with a stranger) where all we do is exchange a glance, a few words, or sometimes even a light pat on the arm — these are the knowing and comforting gestures from someone who HAS been there. This is true compassion.

Yes, Eralyn, I’m sick of the “it’s a he said, she said” comments.

Yes, Skylar, I know what it is (as you put it well) to not realize you are being abused. In my case, no one else realized it, either. They thought my husband was a nice guy. They had never seen his “other” side, the one he reserved for me (and, now that they are older, the kids).

I had another fantasy this morning while driving to work. In this one, I was “shopping” for a therapist, but I was interrogating beforehand with some very pointed questions:

1. what do you believe is the healthy response if a person is married to someone with a personality disorder (this person lies, manipulates, gaslights, appears to take sadistic pleasure in messing with their spouse by keeping them off balance, and maligns their spouse’s reputation by spreading lies to the community and family members)? Do you see your role as trying to facilitate a healthy relationship between these two people? How would you do this?

2. what kind of relationship would you try to encourage, in the case of teenage children who have a sociopathic (lying, manipulative, controlling, sudden rage-attacking, blame-shifting) father (parents divorced), the kids want nothing to do with him? Would you try to help the kids and their father reconcile?

3. what position do you advise the mother to take, in this case?


I also am remembering back to my own father’s reaction when I told him I was divorcing my husband because of PHYSICAL AND SEXUAL AND EMOTIONAL ABUSE. My dad said, “Can’t you try to work this out?” And I said, “I want you to understand something, Dad: I am never sleeping with this man again!” (this shocked him because I guess even though I was married with a few kids, I’m not supposed to let on that I had sex….)

So I am going through the horrible pain of the divorce, with no support, and simultaneously taking on the job of EDUCATING what should have been members of my “support team” about what abuse “is.”

It’s hard to look back at that time, sometimes.


To really add insult to injury, my health insurance company denied the claim due to a “self inflicted wounds”. I fought that for a year while paying the bills off. My friend and I were constantly yuckin it up about “hey don’t do that, they may say it a self inflicted wound and not cover it!” lol I was tubing down the river and a rope got wrapped around my neck. I got untangled and we laughed and laughed about what a field day they’d have in the claims department with a rope burn around my neck and me claiming it was an accident. (this was AFTER much time and healing and laughter got me through)

The insurance company called me a year later and the girl who read my letter was choked up and said they were paying the bill and apologized for giving me such a hard time. UGH! But that, too, was validation and more healing.


So glad you found the approach of laughing at it — sounds weird, but whenever we can do that, it really seems to work! Because yep, what your insurance company did in denying your claim is a terrible insult to the abusive beating (injury) you received at the hands of a “loved one.”

My God. What a world.

I gather you wrote a letter after they denied your claim, and it was your letter that got through to them? Good for you for not giving in and giving up.


In my opinion, the mental anguish hurt more than any broken bone. Maybe that’s why we don’t minimze others. Plus I think I look at other people like their abuse is worse than mine!! You know how we are our own worst critic? I kind of wonder if we are our own worst minimizer with abuse. I know I need validation that things are what they are.

Yes Donna has done a major service to us making this website. We can more freely tell what happened to us I feel. It seems someone always understands here and makes a point TO validate…… So I agree with you about this being an excellent resource!! YEAH!

Have you ever heard of coercive control? The definition reminds me of the equivalent of a molesters grooming process. The signs of coercive control can tell the court that abuse is occurring in my opinion.


I meant to say as far as teenage kids go, I would promote any good quality they have from your ex and lightly touch on good qualities about him. Other than that, I wouldn’t bother doing much else. Don’t bad mouth him and validate them when they need it. It’s very difficult when the ex has made themselves an outcast. Since they do know him and have some kind of relationship with him, they may be mixed up with anger and you don’t want that to ever get flung on you.

20 and Eralyn,
When I first came to LF, I used humor to cope. I made fun of the spaths but some people became very upset with me and told me it was not a laughing matter.

It’s true that this is a serious matter but laughter is very healing and protective. The spath could never mess with me when I was laughing, so I learned to laugh at him in private and it helped dissolve the tension.

Yes, the layers! Rarely a day goes by that I don’t learn about another layer. I’ve been researching Aspergers lately and some of the descriptions are similar to borderline behaviors.

I think what we have is a cluster of symptoms and behaviors which can be grouped in different assortments. Depending on how you group them, they end up with a different label. But not every possible grouping has a label because each human is unique.

About the only thing that they all seem to have in common is the disconnection from feeling emotions. Then the person becomes emotionally arrested and unable to grow up or move on.

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