Having spent time listening to many psychopathy researchers, I can attest to many times coming away with the feeling that very critical insights are being missed. An appreciation for the bigger picture just isn’t there yet. For me the bigger picture always includes the family. A sociopath may prey on strangers, but usually that is after a lifetime of practice on family members. The reason this piece is so critical is that the personality disorder, psychopathy is a pervasive disorder of human social behavior that affects every relationship the disordered person has.
Considering what this disorder actually is- a pervasive disorder of human social behavior, the perspective of family members becomes very important. Methods of victimization of others also shed light on the nature of the disorder itself. I think this may be the only psychiatric disorder that would not be present if the affected person was lost alone on an island somewhere. That observation is often lost amid the abnormal brain scans and cognitive tests that are sometimes seen in affected persons.
Without the balance of hearing from victims and family members theories of psychopathy can even miss the central features of the disorder. For example, one new theory of psychopathy called the Triarchic Theory, states that the three traits of boldness, meanness and dysinhibition tell the entire story. The theory is actually better than this sounds but meanness is not what the authors of the theory think it is. If sociopaths were obviously mean, there would not be as many victims.
Given the assertions of the Triarchic Theory it is not surprising that the DSM 5 Personality Disorders Task Force proposed that “acknowledgement and articulation of other emotions (than anger) such as love and anxiety is rare.” Researchers need to put their theories into a perspective that can only be gained through real life outside the laboratory. Therefore it is critical that meetings include work on victims and their experiences, as subjective and “unscientific” as this may sound.
The posters Donna and I presented were an opportunity to challenge researchers to consider their words and assertions carefully. Many came away from reading them doing just that. I had to explain why the language proposed for DSM 5 is wrong, as many tried to defend the proposed statement as true.
There were also two posters from Adelle Forth’s group out of Canada’s Carleton University by graduate students Henriette Bergstrom and Janelle Beaudette on the effects of victimization by a psychopath on victims’ relationship functioning and physical health. This group has identified several themes in the narrative stories of victims, ongoing suffering, transformation and transcendence. But they also say those victims who came through the experience stronger did not really describe how.
This group has identified something I think is very important, that is the question of how to survive victimization and grow from the experience. The fact that a relationship with a sociopath has detrimental effects on psychological, emotional and physical health that lasts for years after the relationship has ended, tells us a great deal about what this disorder is about.
Watch the video: Donna Andersen explains Lovefraud research at psychopathy conference.
adamsrib:
Thank you and I am glad you have found a good man!
Ox Drover:
Wow, that makes so much sense to me. As I was reading what you wrote, I could literally feel and see that I think that is what my X spath was doing. I think that’s why mine ran back to the OW because after he had me and realized I wasn’t it, he ran back to her and even though she wasn’t it either, she gave him something that was closer to what he was looking for. Great insight!
Eb waiting for my ride. Church starts in another 30 mins. Just want to say I don’t know what to expect. I am trying to take it day by day. After 2 spaths and maybe more as I study my time line, I tend to sabotage myself with good men.
I do know that I cannot go any further than friends, holding hands kissing etc because I am still feeling sexually vulnerable. He is so understanding about it. I know it won’t be for long just need to know him and trust him and feel safe. It’s only been two months with him. I need to assess him for red flags.
When we give our souls to someone, piece by piece, it is not long before they have us lock stock and barrel and this is why they are known as emotional vampires-they suck the very soul out of us. But they do it so insidiously that we don’t even know they are taking what is most precious to us. Our very being.
Though I am attracted to my bf I want to let the chemistry build and he knows that I do not want to get married. He’s turned off to marriage also.
So, we shall see. Like I said the other day, I am willing myself to go with it. I need more time and he will have to understand that. One good thing, so far no temptations to break NC with Addiction though I am still mourning the old fart! Someone said just yesterday I believe, that she is mourning THAT WHICH DID NOT EXIST. Soooo true.
Dear Adamsrib,
Unfortunately when we are STILL MOURNING the last relationship (or what we thought of as a relationship) we are not in the best position to be logical in the NEW relationship….so many times we jump from the frying pan into the fire, from one bad relationship to one possibly even worse. A new relationship doesn’t “heal” the wounds from the last one, though it may DISTRACT us from thinking about the old past relationship.
In my case I was a traumatized widow, and very vulnerable….but fortunately I got out before I married him. He was just looking for a respectable wife to cheat on and keep his harem at arm’s length.
So just take this new relationship slow and easy, if he pushes for sex then I wouldn’t trust him….and BTW I would also insist on a CLEAN BILL OF HEALTH and a total sexually transmitted disease status prior to any sexual contact. The FASTEST rising HIV group is the over 50 right now….so don’t think just because he’s older he is immune, if he balks at being tested, push him away, FAR AWAY!
((((((((((((((((((((( Questy!!!! )))))))))))))))))))))) Long time no post! I hope you’re doing well!
INTERESTING theory, Quest. Have you thought of writing another article on this theory of yours?
No subconscious…..hmmmm…..psychoanalysis doesn’t refer to this in psychological/scientific terms.
This has been referred to as the NO Conscience/low conscience disorder….so according to your theory, how does this tie in? It would be interesting to get your feedback on this.
SUBconscious to me implies that the psychopath is not aware of what he/she is doing, thus could not be aware of intentional harm, nor of impending consequences of his/her actions
How does NO conscience and SUBconscious tie into one another or do they?
LL
adamsrib:
So glad you are taking it slow. It’s really the only way after being traumatized by an spath. Sounds like you got a good one on your hands. If it is right, you will know it. I also feel the same “mourning” of something that didn’t exist. I think it makes it so much worse.
I hope you enjoyed church today!
Oxy, EB,
You guys are spot on. I am trying to ratchet it down and I am feeling that he is ready to have a committed relationship and I will just need to continue to communicate with him. I know that I won’t go further if it’s not right just like you say EB. It just HAS to be right or I’m a no go.
And Ox oh YES you are so right about the health check. After what I have been through I do not want to go that route again. I have to admit I have been afraid to have that check up because of what I might find out. I would feel like the biggest skank on the planet because of my upbringing. He claims to have had his but I don’t know how to ask for proof. Can’t even really think of it right now. Can’t be sexual right now anyway.
He seems more into me than I am into him and my mother always said that is good but I can’t really gauge myself in this if I am still carrying baggage and the sting of the last relationship. It’s not fair to him. BUT I hate to lose a great guy over something that was an illusion. I must remember that when it is my time then I will want to move forward, right guys?
Church was great Eb. I took him to my former Mennonite community. I am still friends with them even tho I am no longer a member there. They are such beautiful people. True Christians with a capital C. They accept me and love me even though I am officially “expelled” from their membership. They have to follow that code but they are so kind about it. They are not like the Amish (but Old Order Mennonites yes and very conservative/orthodox) in that that don’t put the ban on expelled members. Shunning as it is called. Rather, they accept and love hoping the erring member will find their way back. There are some things I cannot partake of with them since I am no longer a member. But I don’t miss those things, I am very fulfilled in my brand of spirituality.
I wanted him to join me because he also has trust issues. He seems to need to know that I am a decent woman and I wanted him to see the community that help formed me spiritually. Of course now I am more liberal and won’t ever let anyone control me or put me under the thumb.
I feel as if I am letting him down. He has hopes for us and I am still gun shy. Big sigh……
p.s. it was Effie who said that she felt she was mourning someone who really never existed. That really floored me because it is so true for all of us on LF. It was so helpful in my healing process to hear it put that way. Thank you Effie!!
Oxy & Quest,
Quest, thank you for posting your thoughts. As I read your post I had some major epiphanies, that have now given me some much needed clarity about some things relating to the P’s behaviors.
Oxy, Your following comment makes so much sence, and I have often had the very same thoughts, as well. It is amazing how much it helps to hear other’s same thoughts. Maybe because of the validation? I have to think in the terms that you speak of, in your comment below, due to the fact that it is how I go on, in my healing process, without straying back into what was my own emotional confusion (VERY EMOTIONAL CONFUSION). It was one othe most difficult aspects of what had happened with my own P experience…. Dealing with the hurt of knowing what he was engaging in with the new victim.
You wrote: “I have always believed that one of the reasons they are so sexually experimenting and trying new people and new things is because they don’t get what WE get—the “bonding hormone release” (oxytocin) and somehow they sense that we get SOMETHING that they don’t and they aren’t sure what it is but they keep trying new partners, new things, etc LOOKING FOR whatever it is that WE get and they do NOT GET. I think at the start of each new sexual relationship they think “maybe this is the ONE” but of course it never is and the new quickly wears off and they haven’t found the MAGIC FEELING so they move on to new partners, new experiences, etc”.
After reading both yours, and quest’s posts I have a question (for anyone that may be able to answer it). I whole heartedly believe in the fact that the P’s do not feel emotion, thus being the case, if the P says he is hurt by something that the victim has said or done, is it only their ego that has been hurt? I mean, if they do not have the ability to feel hurt/pain?
I am wondering, only because, the P that came into my life said that I had hurt him, or my words had caused him to feel hurt. I do understand that by telling me this, it is part of the manipulation, but what really could have hurt, (other than his ego), if anything, if they do not feel emotion?
Thank you for any insight you may be able to offer me, on this!
Eden
((((((((((((( eden )))))))))))))))
I know you didn’t ask me specifically, but I think I can help out on this one. It’s PROJECTING BLAME ONTO YOU FOR WHATEVER HAS HAPPENED OR DID! My spath was the KING of “You’re really hurting me”. This is word salad. It’s meant to deflect from their OWN rotten behavior. It’s also a diversionary tactic to where YOUR issues with him are NEVER addressed. It’s GUILT inducing and PURPOSEFUL so that you will not inquire of him further.
He feels NOTHING when he’s saying it. Absolutely NADA.
LL