This is a very tragic story left by one of our readers:
My daughter was misdiagnosed with ADHD. Then bipolar disorder, then Oppositional Defiance Disorder. I stormed out of her psychologist office when she told me that she saw something “dark” in my child. That was when she was 7. When she was 8, her sociopathy increased and she purposely drowned my poodle. She also tried to smother my baby by my second husband. The strain of her and my carrying the baggage from my last relationship has driven he and I apart and we currently trying to file for divorce.
She steals daily, has even stolen as much as $500 from my wallet. I lock things away, and she will simply pry open the lock, break the lock or disable locked windows so she can climb in for access to everything. My son sleeps with his father at night at his own home, while I sit here at night, catching her lurking through the dark, stealing whatever she can get her hands on (i.e., money, jewelry, food, perfume). If I try to discipline her, she simply runs off and screams to the top of her lungs “don’t kill me”, which causes the neighbors to call the police. Just this morning, I discovered money missing and brand new snacks I bought last night for the baby and all of us to share GONE. Every single day she steals. I have to sleep at night and when I do, she lurks in the dark, prying open things, destroying things.
It’s like if she is alone for a moment, she does something way over the edge. Like this morning, I caught her chopping blooms from cacti I planted with a mini shovel, I mean she looked like the LAST SAMARI. I am being victimized everyday and feel like she is the hunter in my home and I am the hunted. I have arranged for an IEP at her school and it is my goal to get her placed in a facility in Utah where they house and treat child psychopaths or excuse me, Oppositional Defiant children because liberal America will not allow her to be called what she truly is until she turns 18.
The issue of likely outcome is more difficult in child psychiatry than it is in any other aspect of medicine. Think for a moment, if a child has cancer and we know that 65% of children with this cancer die, what does that tell us about our particular child? I chose the number 65% because that is the percentage of conduct disordered teens that went on to develop antisocial personality as adults in one study.
When we consider studies of conduct disorder, oppositional defiant disorder and symptoms of psychopathy in children we have to consider that most of these studies are done on a special population of children that are being treated at University based clinics. So the information about prognoses we get is likely pessimistic. Sill not even these studies show that 100% of children with these symptoms have them into mid adulthood.
I would like to tell you about three children, I watched grow up. These children show us that we have to be careful about trying to predict adult personality function on the basis of what we see in a child.
The first child is a neighbor of mine. When she was 7 she was so fearful and shy that she refused to go on play dates. I spoke to her mother about this and her mother indicated that symptoms of anxiety tended to run in their families. Well, I saw that girl again at 14 and I can tell you she is “popular” and not at all shy. I asked her mother about what happened. Her reply was, “Yeh, she grew out of it.”
The second child is a boy who was a sibling of one of my daughter’s friends. At 7 he was a mess, very impulsive and easily angered. So much so he got into trouble in religious school. At 13 this boy is controlled and polite, a fine young man.
The last child is a boy I grew up with. I was always an animal lover. This boy’s behavior disgusted me because at 7 he captured lizards, stuck sticks through their mouths and killed them. He then put his kills in the street for cars to run them over. I hated that kid! Well, he did not grow up to be a psychopath. He is a loving husband, responsible father and business owner.
Video of 7 year-old Latarian
After introducing this background, I would like you to watch the video of Latarian Milton, a 7 year old who stole his mother’s car. (This video was recommended in one of our reader’s comments and I appreciate that.)
Go to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itgcNy3L_Xc This boy demonstrates for us what psychopathic personality traits look like in children. He shows no remorse and says he enjoys doing bad things. He doesn’t care about the consequences of his actions because for him the fact that he gets enjoyment justifies everything. The comments left on Youtube reveal that many people have one of two incorrect views of psychopathy in children. The first is that it can be cured by beating the child. The second is that it invariably leads to a disordered adult.
If there was only a 10 percent chance that a child’s cancer could be cured, most people would still advocate that the child get aggressive cancer treatment. The odds for disordered kids are at least that and yet many people say they should be written off and secretly believe they should either be euthanized or imprisoned for life.
What should be done to help psychopathic children?
Psychopathic children do have the same issues as psychopathic adults. Namely, their pleasure system is warped and their impulse control system is defective. The difference is that these two systems are more changeable in a child than they are in an adult.
Psychopathic children enjoy “being bad” (to quote Latarian in the video above) more than they enjoy anything else. What they need is to be taught how to enjoy loving human connections. If they can learn to enjoy loving, then they have a chance at developing a modicum of empathy and conscience. This is where our pessimistic view of psychopathic children can become a self-fulfilling prophesy. Studies show that the parents of such children often dislike them. The people who advocate writing off these kids do not help these parents. Parenting an at-risk child is the most difficult task many will ever have to face.
We have to support the parents of psychopathic children and encourage them to try to find something in the child they do like and can connect with. Psychopathic children require constant adult supervision and affectionate adult companionship.
Psychopathic children also need to be taught about the nature of impulses and morality. They need verbal lessons as well as real life lessons in the form of consequences. Studies show that when parents of psychopathic children dislike them, they often pull back and do not provide the consistent teaching of impulse control these kids need.
There is also another side to the prognosis coin. That is that many children who appear to be “normal” grow up to be psychopathic. I know this from two sources, scientific studies and people who write me. Dr. Hare has said the antisocial behavior that leads to sociopathy/psychopathy begins during childhood and adolescence. I agree with him, but the problem is that this antisocial behavior can take many forms. For example, lying, stealing and being aggressive toward a sibling are all behaviors that many sociopaths showed during childhood. Many children engage in these behaviors and so again we may consider them “normal.”
How can we prevent sociopathy in adults?
Behavioral science has revealed a great deal about what we can do to give all children the best chance. I was at a conference this week and one of the speakers noted that the State of California bases its estimate on the future need for prison space on the reading scores of children in 3rd grade! In addition to effective parenting, at-risk children need to have quality education. Right now our practice is to take troubled children and group them together for school. Not only do they all then get a substandard education, but they get to teach each other more antisocial behavior!
As a society, we are far from doing our best for psychopathic kids. Some children will develop disordered in spite of the best parenting and professional help. YOU WILL NOT KNOW IF YOUR CHILD IS IN THAT GROUP UNTIL YOU HAVE GIVEN HIM THE BEST PARENTING AND PROFESSIONAL HELP AVAILABLE. Medication may be necessary for some children. If you have done your best as parent and your child still has problems, forgive yourself. Rest assured that his problems would be much worse if you had not done your best.
I want to end with what I believe are the 10 attributes of effective parents:
Summary of Effective Parenting
- Effective parents are warm and empathetic.
- Effective parents reward good behavior.
- Effective parents establish clear rules and enforce them through limit setting.
- Effective parents model good behavior.
- Effective parents teach impulse control, respect and values.
- Effective parents surround their children with positive influences.
- Effective parents protect their children from entering into situations they won’t be able to handle.
- Effective parents teach age appropriate life skills.
- Effective parents have fun with their children.
holywatersalt My x was abandoned by his parents at age two. His very religous grandparent’s raised him, from what he told me ( if it was even true) she was very ashamed of him for being gay and disowned him when he told her at age 18. So the borderline personality disorder explains his fear of abandoment and the rage. He was very street smart but lived in the shadows. He was obviously a very troubled man. Like a hurt puppy with sad eyes. But I am sure when I turned my back to him the look of pity turned to a look of ( I got you fooled) and probably a sick smirk that went with those cold empty eye’s. He knew he was fooling me and loved every minute of it. But then I became like him and the focus wasnt just about him and he had to leave because he knew couldnt fool me asnymore – the gig was up. It’s going on 7 month’s nc for me and just the past few days I have noticed there have been moment’s he was not in my thoughts – just a moment here and there – TIME – such a precious thing to waste on them – but TIME and distance and no contact is our only salvation.
Henry, Dear,
For every person who had a bad chldhood and turned out “bad” you can name one who had a horrible childhood and OVERCAME IT.
WE ALL HAVE CHOICES. You didn’t have an ideal childhood either, and neither did I, but we are NOT psychopaths. Weve made some poor choices, but we haven’t victimized others without a single atom of remorse.
I have just finished reading a book on Charlie Manson, written by a prison administrator who spent nearly 20 years around him while he was (is) in prison. The administrator was fascinated by Charlie and Charlie’s antics. Charlie blames his “terrible up brinings” (and it was terrible) for being what he is, one moment he claimes to be god, and the next he claims that he had NO influence on the “family” and that they acted totally independelty in the murders.
NOTHING was ever “Charlies’ fault” I have a wonderful friend whose mother was the human equivalent of a sow that would eat her pigs as they were born. Two of her children became wonderful caring people and two just like her (I won’t count the mentally retarded daughter) so a bad, terrible, horrible even, childhood CAN be over come, and a “good” nice family can produce a monster.
The problem is that you are, as an ADULT, 100% responsible for your own choices.
I don’t like a lot of the choices I made, but I can’t “blame” them on my mother or my P-bio father, they may have influenced me by my “raisin'” but I still had choices, and TODAY I choose to be healthy and to be happy, and to not let what has happened in the past rule the rest of my life.
(M) can’t blame his predatory lifestyle on his parents, he has a choice to NOT behave that way. You couldn’t save him from hmself. I couldn’t save my P-son from himself.
But what we can do, and what we have chosen to do is to SAVE OURSELVES, to heal ourselves.
You and Bird and I have all three made big progress in our road to healing and I am proud of all three of us, and others here that have overcome the trauma, the pain, and blossomed.
Today has been wonderful, and I trust that tomorrow will be as well, because I will MAKE IT WONDERFUL. I thank God for LF, and for you all, my companions on this journey to JOY. God bless and ((((hugs)))) my friends.
In our times of (mis)-managed “care”. Nebraska may be the only solution for some parents. Check this out from aol:
http://news.aol.com/article/2nd-out-of-state-teen-dumped-in-omaha/193761?icid=100214839x1211101154x1200683901
Dear TDPP,
Hun,, you are not going to offend any of us, if you have found a group of people who will accept you, THIS IS THE PLACE.
We may not always “agree” on everything, but we all have and express our opinions here without fear of “flamming” or hate mail.
You will find more care and concern and some really really smart folks here and many with lots of “letters” after their names who DO GET IT, because they have the P-experience as well.
All our P-experiences are horrible and it doesn’t matter if it is your husband, your chld, your boss, your neighbor, or your lover, they shread our lives, our hearts and our souls if we allow it.
Having a YOUNG child as a P, when there IS hope, but you are at your wit’s and strength’s end must be the bottom level of HELL ON EARTH. Having my P-son as a teenager was horrible and I can’t even imagine how you must be hurting, afraid, and sad 24/7.
We can’t do anything for you, but we can sure be here to hold your hand, listen to you, validate your horrible situation and maybe, just maybe come up with some kind of idea that might help. AND LISTEN WHEN NO ONE ELSE WILL. This is a safe place, my dear, with caring people.
Your daughter IS IMPORTANT, but you know what, YOU ARE ALSO IMPORTANT, AND YOUR MARRIAGE IS IMPORTANT AND YOUR SON IS IMPORTANT, so balancing this 4-sided “see-saw” on a pin head is a DIFFICULT TASK. That I DO absolutely know. I so admire you for being able to not be lying on the floor sucking your thumb and babbling, and spewing spittle. You are ONE TOUGH GREAT WOMAN, so hang on to YOUR sanity above all else right now. Your family needs you and if you don’t take care of YOU, you can’t help your daughter, your son or your marriage. (((((hugs)))))) PRAYERS AND MORE PRAYERS Oxy
tdpp-
I feel for you. I really do. It’s so disturbing that children can do such hate-filled things and then act as though nothing happened. I can’t imagine the fathers who are in jail because their P daughters told people they were being molested (and actually weren’t). Or the parents who are dealing with DHS workers because of things their P children are doing or accusing them of doing that isn’t the truth. I hope everything goes well for you at the meeting.
I am trying to come to grips with my circumstances and the long road ahead of me with my children and step-children. How they turn out is really up in the air at this point. I do know that I fear my step-son may be down the S road with his mom, but I’m not ready to say he’s without hope. I know he’s done better in the year that we’ve had temp full custody.
I do worry about my own children. Will my stepson sexually act out with them? Will they be accused of things that he did? How will my children turn out? One is “diagnosed” (by a family doctor) with ADD and has trouble concentrating at school. This tendency I noticed at an early age. I could never put my finger on what is wrong, but I knew something wasn’t clicking right. But he does have a conscience, so I’m thinking he’ll be okay. My other son I always have had a soft spot for. I don’t know why. I was told that parents often have a child that they relate to better than another. Lately he’s had a really bad attitude, and I can’t get him to get out of his funk. He’s almost 6, and he just thinks the world hates him. I don’t know if he’s manipulating me, but he is also a sweet child, and I worry what my divorce with his dad has done to him emotionally at such a tender age. I share custody of them with their dad, but he can be almost abusive when he gets stressed and angry, so I worry. My son was so happy until the divorce… I don’t know. Now I have 3 stepchildren. The oldest boy, 5, is the one I was referring to. Then a 3 year old girl, and a 1 year old girl. They all display problems due to their S mom. I also have a 5 month old son with my husband, and he is just the light of my life. He is so happy and content, even amidst all this chaos. He whines less than all his older brothers and sisters. That is DEFINITELY not to say that I love him any more. Sometimes my love comes out in worry.
I just need reassurance that my kids will be okay. That I’m doing the right thing by them. I know that my almost-6 year old’s problem is probably due to him not knowing where his place is in the family, especially since he’s so close in age to my stepson (only a month apart). He was my baby, now he’s second to oldest, and I have a new baby too. I just wish I could reassure him, but he doesn’t seem to want the help. Sometimes I wonder if I put my own happiness ahead of my children’s needs when I married my husband.
Dear tdpp,
I am glad that you are upbeat and that you have your “ducks in a row”—I hope that you get some positive results. I’ve fought school systems (for my ADHD son) and ended up taking him out of public school–home schooled for a while, then private schools, but eventually got a well educated son.
I do know how difficult it is when your round child won’t fit a square “hole” in the school systems. Your situation is more acute than mine was with my young ADHD son, but hopefully you will get some relief both for yourself and your daughter.
I will keep my fingers crossed and my knees on the floor for you, light a candle and say 100 prayers. BTW, it’s OK to “complaiin” when things get really REALLY bad! One of the things I found out (finally) is that it’s okay not be be able to “handle the world on your back” without any help. I always tried to handle whatever load was put on my back, because God promised he won’t put more on us than we can bear, and HE didn’t, I DID. I kept heaping it upon my own shoulders instead of giving part of the load to HIM>
There is an old saying “that a JOY SHARED is doubled, and a burden shared is HALVED.” I am learning now to SHARE my burdens, and to share my JOYS and I am a much better and stronger person because of that. God bless (((hugs))))
I just found this site and though Im not glad to be here, and sad that you all are.. misery is better in like company.
My 11 year old step-daughter was just diagnosed as being “psychotic”.. but, after all the reading Ive done, I think shes absolutely a psychopath.
She’s been put on a drug called Abilify and its only been 3 days.
She’s a beautiful quiet little girl but she destroys things, stabbing the items, things she believes are special to people, like my baby book, my son’s baby book, my family bible etc.
She leaves the destroyed things for us to find, sometimes leaving clues for us to find first that will direct us to the object she has harmed.
She shaved bald patches into 2 of our cats, cutting into their skin and holding them so hard she caused a fluid filled hematoma on the shoulder of one of the pets.
We heard the screaming of the cat and ran out to see what was going on- she let go and pretended she arrived there first, kicking the razor under the table.
We assumed it was a simple disagreement between the kitties and left them to sort it out.
When the screaming went on again, we ignored it.
My step-daughter had grabbed the cat to finish the job.
She bit my son in his sleep “to find out how much pain it would take before he woke up” it took several days of her learning what he could sleep through before clamping down on his arm hard enough to bruise him in 2 wide circles and he smacked her.
We have chains on our doors now and Ive hidden the knives in the garage.
Her psychologist had me stay within 5 feet of her constantly, waking till sleeping, for a week as part of her bad decision therapy. She got away from me twice, once when I was opening the door of my van to take the kids to school- she dashed back into the house to destroy something that she had picked out.. the other time she asked me about something of mine and then waited till I wasnt looking, and destroyed it, putting it back for me to find.
She took in indelible marker to my fine bone china, smeared icing on the tv, pulled the fringe off the pillows of the new couch while we were sitting next to her reading, not watching her-
The therapist had me tie her to me for a week since she was being tricky- and I took her off the “leash” when I called the police about a house I thought was being burglarized ( owner was renovating)
during the few minutes I spoke to the officers at my door, the little girl went to my china cabinet and destroyed an antique pair of glasses belonging to a great grandfather then took a pair she hadnt harmed and left it on a table in another room as her “clue”.
She has no remorse, no conscience, it never crosses her mind- she tells me- about possible consequences.
She enjoys hurting people and enjoyed hurting the animals.
She is only sad about her punishments.
She lies constantly about everything. She even lies about what shes done when shes caught.
She has something I call “the Dark Look”- Its an expressionless fathomless stare. Her brother also does this.
She says she is bored when she comes up with her destructive plots and nothing stops her from carrying them out. If she is thwarted right then, she just waits until she gets the chance to accomplish her goal.
She does these things at other homes besides mine.
Her brother was just diagnosed as “emotionally disturbed”.. a catch all phrase for a lot of things. I thought he had aspergers’ when he lived here.
His behavior was so disruptive that he was removed to live with his paternal grandmother.
I believe now, that he is also a psychopath but with a lower IQ.
(109) than his sister.
He is arrogant, self-pitying, bullied because of his oddities.. he makes strange decisions like he would rather defecate and urinate in his clothes than to take the time to leave what he’s doing and go to the bathroom.
He was finally broken of it when he was 13.
Their father is talking about divorcing me rather than having his daughter move out.
Ive been advised to take her to a mental care facility for observation.
My husband thinks I have manipulated the psychiatrist into making her diagnosis.
His mother, who has the boy who is 15 now, is very enabling and I have insisted that the both of them come with me to the next session.
I love the little girl. I recognize that she has shallow feelings, is a sadist, and is dangerous.
I fear for us all.
Dear Wyn: I know health professionals are going to work with you and your step-daughter with the knowledge that they already knows works and sadly, what doesn’t work. I’m going to suggest another approach … and please, just hear me out on this … because I know I’m going to get booed all over the place on what I’m going to suggest … but I feel it in my soul that this will work… that this little girl is forced fed the Bible … reading it on her own or having someone read it to her, hearing it on tape, listening to the word of God, watching it on video the word of God … allowing her to do nothing else but to absorb the wisdom of what is in the Bible. I believe that reading and understanding the Bible and how God wants us to live will kick off enzymes in her brain to allow her to start feeling again. I don’t think it will be a quick fix and will take years of allowing the wisdom to sink into her brain … but I think this is the missing link from any of the tried and trued therapies out there today.
I believe children by the time they reach 11 have already been living in their egos for years … probably since she was around 1 years old. She instinctively knew how to play her parents to get her own way … (not realizing the affects this will have on her in the future … she’s only a child living in her ego) after that her ego took off and she was no longer a humble child (you have to be humble to listen to reprimands and learn the lessons of the reprimands … if the child’s ego took off – there is no getting through the ego … it has a life of it’s own) and that ego gets stronger and as the years went by.
Hey, it wouldn’t hurt mixing God’s way of wanting us to live thrown into the mix here.
I feel so strongly on this and I know it’s not orthodox practice … but, I can’t express it stronger than to emerge that child’s life … living and breathing the word of God … for the next few years and see what comes of it.
It couldn’t hurt to have this child read and study the Bible … the other way her ego is running her life isn’t working and isn’t functional. Plus, flooding the child with wisdom of God’s words in the Bible hasn’t been tried yet and therefore, there is no results tallied whether it works or not.
If I had a child living the way this child is living through her ego, I’d be willing to try the written word of God.
Peace and I hope you find serenity in the years to come while dealing with this.
I have been very affected by some of these posts, even though I don’t have children of my own.
When I was very young, I did terrible things to animals. I used to behead wild snakes and skin frogs while they were alive. I once tortured a pet turtle until I woke up one day and found it dead. I cannot tell you how many tears I have shed over these actions. I doubt I will ever forgive myself. It’s horrible to have to even remember.
As I got older I outgrew it and became the animal advocate in my family. My parents decided to keep dogs to breed, and at one time we had 50 of them. It was my job to care for them, and when they were sick I nursed them back to health. The sick ones always stayed in my room so I could take care of them. I grew to love animals.
I currently live with two boa constrictors and two cats, and they are all spoiled rotten and the loves of my life. I would never lift a finger to harm them or any animal. I volunteer at a cat shelter and cannot even step on an ant or a spider. I have spent my adult life helping and rescuing animals. I know I can’t bring back the turtle I killed by I can maybe save the lives of others.
I’m writing this because I do believe that harming animals as a child is NOT an accurate indicator of psychopathy. At least I hope I’m not a psychopath.
BTW, what happened to all of TDProcessing’s posts? They seem to have disappeared.
stargazer: i don’t think you’re a psychopath at all. you are very sympathetic and empathic toward all of us here.
my ex-s/p/n, who would score through the roof on any test for psychopathy loves animals. he has had dogs and cats and cared for them very much. it is the ONLY trait that is listed that he doesn’t have. i have known him since he was a pre-teen, and he was truant, sexually promiscuous and a rampant sociopath (didn’t know it then!) since he was very young. his mom concurs on this. but he has never mistreated animals … only people. comforting, right?!
however, if a dog ever bit him unprovoked, he’d probably kick the crap out of it without a second thought.