UPDATED FOR 2020
Most Lovefraud readers are here because you were, or are, romantically involved with someone who has a serious personality disorder. Usually romance leads to sex, although you may have noticed that sex with a an antisocial or psychopath isn’t particularly romantic.
The sex may be exciting, erotic and adventurous. But if you’re looking for a true connection, the “sacred conjunction,” you’re not going to find it with an antisocial or psychopath, and here’s why:
Power, control and sex
According to Dr. Liane Leedom, people who have antisocial or psychopathic personality disorder want three things in life: Power, control and sex. Often, sex is simply an extension of their desire for power and control.
The most egregious cases of sex-as-power, of course, are sexual assault and rape. But there are other examples that aren’t as violent or obvious.
My ex-husband, James Montgomery, liked to have sex after we argued. I later figured out that Montgomery, with his superior debating skills, usually won the arguments, and I lost. This meant that he dominated the discussion, and therefore, me, which was sexually exciting to him.
So it wasn’t make-up sex. He was adding physical domination to the verbal and psychological domination of winning the argument.
Excess testosterone
All antisocials and psychopaths, both male and female, have very high levels of testosterone. This is the hormone that makes people compete for partners and then mate with them. So with high testosterone, they do a lot of competing and mating.
Being in a relationship doesn’t stop this. Almost all antisocials and psychopaths cheat.
High testosterone is also associated with aggression and criminality. When high testosterone and a high level of disorder combine with deviant desires, the end result can be a very dangerous individual — a violent sexual predator.
Need for excitement
Antisocials and psychopaths crave stimulation and excitement. Sex is about the most stimulating activity that a human being can experience, so they want it. A lot.
And what, exactly, do they want? Variety.
This means antisocials and psychopaths like sex in a lot of different ways, a lot of different places, and with a lot of different people.
While you are their object of desire, your encounters may seem highly erotic. But sooner or later, they get bored. Then, in search of more stimulation, the antisocial or psychopath may push you to participate in activities that you find uncomfortable.
If you decline, he or she will most likely look for new partners — especially partners who are willing to go along with his or her desires.
But even if you go along with your partner’s new demands, he or she will likely still look for new conquests. Antisocials and psychopaths see no need to remain faithful to one person.
Eventually, when all of their past activities become boring, they may pursue the taboo.
Sex as manipulation
Antisocials and psychopaths know that if they can hook you sexually, you are easier to manipulate.
Here at Lovefraud, we’ve written frequently about oxytocin, nature’s “love glue.” Oxytocin is a neurotransmitter that makes you feel calm, trusting and content, and alleviates fear and anxiety. Oxytocin is released into your bloodstream and brain when you experience intimacy — especially sex.
So when you have sex with someone, because of the oxytocin, you bond with your partner. You become more trusting with that person, and therefore more malleable.
Oxytocin does not affect antisocials and psychopaths like the rest of us. They don’t bond — it’s speculated that they don’t have the necessary oxytocin receptors.
So what happens when you have sex with an antisocial or psychopath? You bond, and he or she doesn’t. You become more likely to comply with what your partner wants, whereas your partner just keeps pursuing his or her agenda.
Read more here:
Oxytocin, trust and why we fall for psychopaths
Straight, gay or sex with anyone
Several times, I’ve appeared on the “Straight Wives — Gay Men” radio show, hosted by Bonnie Kaye (listen on the Lovefraud media appearances page).
Bonnie has heard from thousands of women who were shocked to discover that their husbands have been sexually involved with men. The women typically come to the conclusion that their husbands are secretly gay, and afraid to live their truth.
This is certainly true in some cases. But in many, many cases, the men were simply antisocials or psychopaths looking for variety in their sexual pursuits.
I’ve also spoken with gay men and women who realized their partners were disordered. Many of them observed that these partners weren’t authentically gay.
The bottom line is that many antisocials and psychopaths are neither straight nor gay — they will have sex with anyone.
For them, sex isn’t about attraction. Sex is just another manipulation technique to further their agenda.
Sociopaths and love
The core of the antisocial and psychopathic personality disorder is an inability to love. They cannot experience the human connection of love, the desire to take care of the person that they love.
So what do antisocials and psychopaths mean when they say, “I love you?”
Some know they are being manipulative, and are just mouthing the words to get what they want. But others equate sex with love. They think sex is love. They are essentially saying, “I want to have sex with you.”
Not out of control
Given a typical sociopath’s tremendous appetite for sex, and the desire for variety, you might come to the conclusion that sociopaths are out-of-control sex fiends.
Not necessarily.
Antisocials and psychopaths can subjugate their sexual desires in the service of a larger agenda. For example, they are quite capable of withholding sex from their partners in order to keep them off balance.
And some Lovefraud readers have reported that their disordered partners aren’t interested in sex. (I do have to wonder, though, if the sociopath is getting sex somewhere else.)
As I said at the beginning of this article, antisocials and psychopaths want power, control and sex. But they’re most interested in power and control.
Fotis Dulos, charged in wife’s murder, dead after suicide attempt
I didn’t say all men with high testosterone are sociopaths. I said all sociopaths have high testosterone.
Jmmira, I can feel your frustration with the system and pain at what has happened to you. It is unfair and wrong and caused you continued suffering. I live in a country where the divorce courts favour the mother. My brother was told that by his lawyer. He is married to what I believe to be a narcissist or a psychopath. Only he doesn’t want to know that. His life has been hell for about 14 years. She won’t set him free and he won’t set himself free. He looks sick and old, lost his personality, his career has been affected, he is down trodden, used, abused emotionally and physically. The kids are used to control him and suck him dry.
And yes, stereotyping is out there in full force as you have experienced. Even when I, myself, imagine that my sis-in-law is the man doing those things to my my brother (imagining he is a woman) it seems a hundred times worse. That’s how I know just how his world is pure hell on earth and the unfair system helps keep him there.
I’d been a victim of a text book psychopath in the past (in fact two). I didn’t know about psychopathy then. What I found helpful was to read as much as I could about psychopathy to understand the disorder. I note you have done that too. I’d been hurt and devastated many times and I shocked myself why I opened the door in the first place and why I didn’t dump him at the first sign of unacceptable behaviour. I cannot believe at what I had become. But even with no knowledge back then of psychopathy, the end didn’t hurt as I was glad to be rid of him. The later reading helped me understand it all and I would think “Oh yes, that now makes sense”. When reflecting on his behaviour it no longer left me perplexed, just as my brothers wife’s behaviour doesn’t. It is to be expected and predicted.
However, my situation was nothing like yours as you had been married for years with children and had years and years of hell. Maybe you would find it helpful to contact one of the resources that Donna has pulled together listed on the menu bar and perhaps they can help you through this and get a lawyer who has experience and knowledge of dealing with a narcissist? Just a thought as you are way ahead of my brother – he won’t acknowledge he is living with a disordered wife.
Thanks for the reply and consideration.
Marvelous article, as always, Donna. I am five years out of my 3-plus year marriage to a man I think is probably more on the line to psychopathy and his taker-clan. I come and go from your site – and I suspect I will always return because this data is a part of me and my life now. Your works and compiled information are astounding and absolutely on point regarding my own experiences.
I am deeply appreciative for your site. I am also in awe of your ability to make something amazingly positive and helpul after your own ordeal. Thank you for that. There was a zest for living that disappeared from me after my encounter. Slowly there are returns in that arena.
When I reached for help during my marriage, so many of my friends and acquaintances didn’t understand and were less than kind and helpul. The covertly inflicted injuries should continue to be discussed. Sex is such a multi-tiered subject anyway. You help many by letting us know that it is not “just” us. Thank you.
Thank you BeckyR. I am so glad that Lovefraud is helping you and many others.
You are so right Becky as this is a sisterhood that none of us would have chosen but I am blessed for the understanding and support found here. Our friends and family are often so irritated, annoyed and pissed off at the behaviour of our spaths that their ability to have an understanding or empathy of our relationships is beyond their comprehension. And actually with me that is quite ok as I really don’t need them to go to that dark place, and quite truthfully I really wouldn’t want to share that much. And thats why I am so thankful for Donna’s site. She puts a light on it and lets us know we are firstly; not alone, secondly; will triumph and then finally, in time be better than okay.
i am so upset rite now. i can not get the NPD out of my head, screwing with me. not that im missing him or even thinking about him. he’s influencing my interactions with other men!!! i feel attacked by normal questions or concerns as a guy gets to know me. i have been talking to a guy for a bit and went to dinner with him few nites ago too. He is a strong personality, basically he’s aggressive, a salesman. the NPD was passive aggressive. i am feeling suffocated.
tonite i literally had my breath taken away and started crying by a question of his on the phone. i couldnt talk for a minute or two. he knew i was crying eventually and was pretty freaked out i was crying. so now he thinks i just cry–im a crybaby female ~ick~. i dont cry much at all, damnt!
i just wanted to walk away from the whole relationship developing. its just not gonna work. i didnt want to run, just walk away with a sigh. i tried gracefully to tell him this. oh well, we arent compatible. lets not keep arguing–he is very smart and we have some intense conversations but i dont want to become a contentious woman in his mind. That will kill the chances of ever working. so screw it. he was like, whoa. i am not put off by u. i am just trying to learn about u. i knew instinctively this is true. I am just F’d up. By the NPD.
later, wen i got off the phone i just cried and cried. i want to dig out the NPD from my brain with a spoon, im so desperate to get him out. i dont want to have him talking to me in my brain ANYMORE. i want someone to be able to talk to me without me filtering everything thru HIM. this is the first guy to actually rly be trying to know ME. so its not come up till now, that i noticed.
i just sat outside and screamed at the sky, GET HIM OUT!
just give me a spoon and i will DIG that messed up man OUT. i know this guy and i are not going anywhere now. its fine, i was investing nothing yet. i doubt he was either. its just ridiculous and sad that an intelligent, interested man had me so tensed. he said ur judging everything by other men blah blah blah…i had told him nothing about my past life much. my boundaries are so rigid, cemented in fear, he literally asked me if i cud compromise in a relationship!!!! (I figured out *later* theyre cemented in fear, but still—more work on parameters needed i see)
i know i have PTSD. but really? nothing beyond quite shallow stuff is going to ever happen dating? thats boring. but this has been terrible too.
i NEED to connect with ppl. SIGH
You may not be ready to date again. You should connect with people who have the same hobbies. Maybe try meetup.com groups.
Not to make it about me, but there is no way I could date right now and I’ve been separated for over two years and have not been intimate for many,many years with my ex. I don’t even think she understands why I stopped trying to be with her, even though she’d play all these cold shoulder, not interested, make it the kids business, insult me in front of the kids behavior.
You need to heal and find who you are again. I know I’ll never be who I was again, I’ll only learn and heal somewhat from it. But never the same person.
It’s very important to feel secure in who you are again!
Same for me jmmira. I’ve been separated more than 2 years and I don’t even consider dating. I don’t have feelings for my ex and regret meeting him, but I’m very happy on my own with no stress in the house. I need to get used to being happy with my own company first. I visit family and friends and follow interests I wasn’t able to before. It’s great!
Wow, ain’t, I had a very similar experience with a guy I met on a dating site many months ago. He said something on the phone that triggered me and I processed it right then and there. Then when we hung up I cried again. After meeting up with him and reflecting on that conversation, I realized he was not right for me – he was too domineering for a gentle person like me, though he was very open, sensitive, and communicative. A little too communicative. I like to get to know people slowly. Like a flower blooming. He likes to pry them open with a crowbar. Each to their own. The more he leaned forward energetically, the more I backed up, until I became very quiet and just let him talk. Not a good match. I didn’t feel bad about the experience. I learned something from it and also got a bit of a healing.
I believe that when you’re around a quality compatible person, it will be a little easier. This guy probably is not right for you as a friend, never mind as a boyfriend. BTW, I seek only friends at this point. I’ve decided not to get involved with anyone romantically. I have a guy in my life who is a great friend, almost even like a brother. I’m not attracted to him, but we’re great friends. I think I’m on the right track.
lol, he even said to me, u keep pushing back at everything im doing.
BINGO
chill the F out.
grrrrr
this guy is aggressive and while the NPD was passive aggressive that is much harder to see so it took a long while to realize. i dont like aggressive! period.
i like ur pry me open with a crowbar analogy. i am not pryed. i decide wen and who i tell my shitty life story to.
*I* do have to control the relationship at first. i cant share control till i am able. simple. right or wrong, its just reality. he will never let me do that in a million yrs. he’s got issues he’s never gonna to deal with again either and HE needs to make sure of that upfront. so two hurt ppl are not going to work.
our baggage together does not make a matching set 🙂
BUT I still feel alot of it is the NPD crawling around in my head, eating my brain. and i HATE it.
I know that some women get attached to sociopaths b/c of the oxy connection. I did not experience that. I attribute it to our sex life. When I was dating my ex husband, there was something missing, a connection, a desire to be intimate and close. I talked with him about it and he said that he had those feelings but in his mind, those feelings and behaviors were saved for marriage. Whohoo! I thought oh, I’ve got one of those rare men, a man of virtue. But, no surprise to anyone here on lf, we married and it was the same, or if we did, it was perfunctory because he said I was too demanding and that he was trying to avoid displeasing me (shaming me, as if wanting affection during sex meant I was a b*). I thought he had low T and wouldn’t admit it, that his pride was injured.
This is what I eventually learned:
He wanted orgasms. Lots of them. Just didn’t want to have to bother with anything else. All his plumbing parts worked. But he was missing a heart. So, he had sex with anything and everything. He had hookers, visited glory holes, animals, lots alone with himself. He cheated with LOTS of women, told them I was cold. Well, maybe I was. It was not enjoyable to be used as an object and if I didn’t initial, we didn’t have sex. So… like someone else said… I stopped initiating what would turn into being used like a tool, and he used sex to hook his other victims.
I felt the same, used like an object not a person. The love is only on the empath’s part, which is difficult to understand and when you do understand if feels so cruel. Mine did the same – anything available, but also actively trawls the internet pretending to be normal and nice. Should be a crime, but how to prove it’s fake?
Wow, that is messed up, animals, glory holes, seriously risky, wacko stuff! I actually think my wife has been an escort, dancer or prostitute. When I finally looked up her ex-husband, he said he heard rumors that she had worked as a dancer. A guy at work when we were dating had been passing around rumors that he recognized her from a club. She went to HR and got him in trouble, I didn’t think much of it at the time, but now I think it’s true.
For one thing, she’d give me a little lap dance once in a while. I’d think I was finally going to be intimate with my wife and then of course as usual she’d be asleep in my son’s bed.
Another thing is she’d talk about this older man that she claims to have been friends with. She never gave me any details, but now I think he must have been paying her for company.
And oddly, then I thought about the thongs and lingerie she had, but would never wear for me. I would say, well why don’t you throw them away then, since you never where this stuff. And she’d return with the “do you want me to throw them away?”. Always answering a question with a question. I just said, it surely doesn’t matter to me, you’re not interested in being attractive to me anymore! I don’t know how people get this way, but I’m tired of being blamed for her insanity!
I know she’s been through some psycho-analysis before, because she’d always use the word narcissist towards me and if I asked her too much about her past, she’d freak and tell me to stop psycho-analyzing her.
I swear… you can’t make this stuff up. I just posted on here earlier and deleted the post because I’m not quite done with my divorce and I’m devastated. NOBODY will listen to me! I went from being a confident, assertive and very honest guy, working towards multiple black belts in Karate to a complete mess in 12 years. I used to be disciplined, have zest for life, faith in God… it’s all gone. Honestly, I think of suicide every damn day, I just can’t freaking stand it anymore!
Sorry, I made this about me.. oh no, I’m an narcissist! But I do feel for ya. Oddly my wife seemed to be intimate (cuddling on the couch watching a movie) before we were married, but afterwards she had no interest at all. Like I said in another post, I could not even get a hug and a kiss.
She’d come home from shopping or work and the only one in the house she’d acknowledge was my son. She’d come in, walk past my office and cackle, “Oh Nicholas, look what I got for yoooo!”. Total insanity, I swear!
I feel sorry fore you and hope the divorce goes smoothly. I am purposely waiting the full 5 years to apply for a divorce (I’m not quite halfway through that). Otherwise, despite him sleeping with many, many women, he will object and go to court and lie, lie, lie about me. I couldn’t cope with his really good acting to ‘prove’ he’s the victim instead of me. After 5 years apparently I can get a divorce on the grounds of 5 years separation. It’s going slowly. I feel stupid falling for a fake, but hopefully I’ll be free in the end. Good luck with yours
jmmira.
Yes, from being so prudish that my ex said he was honoring me by “waiting until marriage” to… the bizarre, and NO Problem with sex outside marriage!
I also thought suicide. But I am over my sociopath. I am here because my children seem to be following his path and that’s a whole different can of worms. Once I finally found out what my ex was, I was able to find a way to heal, to replace memories with new. But what mom wants to replace memories of the whole reason she is a mom.
Anyhoo. Don’t do suicide, okay? There’s no recovery from that.
I tell you that I have found a GOOD life after my sociopath. I learned to recognize the difference between accountability and Blame. I accept my mistakes, and LEARN from them. And don’t let anyone blame you for what he did. I stopped the blame game simply by saying, “I’m glad you are having a different experience with him than I did.” and I change the subject or dismiss myself. (I LOVE LOVE LOVE Brene Brown on the subject of shame and vulnerability. I could have written her books for her! Look her up on You Tube, she makes great common sense for women, AND men!)
My ex also did something similar to yours, he’d rev up the engines, as it were, and I’d think we were going to have intimacy. I’d “freshen up” in under five min (brush my teeth, put on lingerie). and he’d be asleep. Men call those kind of women “c**Ktease. What do ya call a man who does that?
That’s exactly my Dh’s MO. Didn’t sleep with me until after marriage — then, absolutely no connection or intimacy. Very robotic. He also did the thing where he treated me like a slut if I was “to into it” or had any interest really. That really takes a hit on your soul and your appetite for sex.
The lingerie thing was key too. I ALWAYS had to wear lingerie. No nakedness. That’s weird and I always wondered if he was gay so we needed to have a facade to make sex palatable. I don’t think he’s gay now. I think he’s unable to connect on any level and hates women. That makes him seem gay, but it’s really about power and control. Just like a rapist — only this is their outlet — to make their partners feel like sluts and whores for wanting sex. At least with his type. I used to wonder if he was too religious and guilt-ridden to enjoy it, but really, he enjoys nothing.
After all these years of marriage (20+) I have never known him. If someone told me he was sneaking out at night to feed the homeless, I’d nod and say, “yeah.” If someone told me he was a serial killer, I’d said, “I can believe that.” Because the truth is, I have no idea who he really is, nor do I care. I just want to get the hell away from him. When I can do that without leaving kids here, I’m gone! I am focusing on building my career back up and getting an outside job so I don’t have to count on him or his crazy games for a monthly check.
Jmmira, my understanding is that you are still in the “storm” and hence this feeling of hopelessness and despair. It is a horrible stage where you swing like a pendulum between anger and depression. It will pass. Try doing something new to help you pass through this phase, some novelty (I recall) that helps the dropping/dropped oxytocin levels in your brain. You may want to read some of Helen Fisher’s books. Have a look also at Donna’s recommended reads in the menu bar.
You have every right to feel this way and it is totally normal. We’ve all been there or are going through it. You have been lied to, conned, deceived, used, abused, ignored, deprieved, been a victim of an unfair system. The only thing worse than this is if you were still with her. You have to go through this final hell and after the storm there is tranquility. When you are feeling depressed think of the depression as an unwelcome guest in your house that you must sit with. They will eventually leave.
And remember it is not you who is disordered. You wouldn’t be thinking of suicide if it were not for your ex. The disorder is hers, let her keep it. Don’t let it near you. It is up to you to design the rest of your life. Suicide is an option to avoid current pain but such a waste when the pain will pass and you could design something for the future that can lead to a lot of pleasure.
I feel so sorry for you. Please stay on this site for support. It’s very hard without the complication of children and all the emotional stuff involved in that. I hope you will be able to have a normal relationship with your son eventually. As he grows he might, hopefully realise his mother isn’t normal. But even without all that, it’s so hard to deal with the slander, lack of love on their part, heartbreak, lies, promiscuity, parasitic way of life. It’s a real shock when our eyes are opened to the reality of the sociopath’s selfishness and lack of empathy. I am not brave enough to go to a therapist for the very reason you state. I am not brave enough to petition for a divorce until the full 5 years of separation have passed because, as sociopath’s are such convincing liars, a judge or lawyer will not believe me as the victim. If only you could find a lawyer, therapist and judge who understands what a sociopath actually is and how they are capable of destroying innocent people.
ok, i keep reading these posts from women that they didnt have sex till after marriage and then found out the guy was a robot–and THATS why he didnt push sex beforehand, not that he respected them.
so ur damned if ur do and damned if u dont.
so discouraging.
That’s true, but I’ll tell you even as a Christian, I wouldn’t get married again without having sex. Not that I ever want to get married again, but yeah, there’s going to be a test. LOL