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Sociopaths and the real harm of lying

The Stolen Valor Act, passed by Congress in 2005, made is illegal for anyone to falsely claim, verbally or in writing, to have been awarded a U.S. military decoration. Last week, the Supreme Court ruled that the law was unconstitutional because it violated the First Amendment’s protection of free speech. The ruling by six Supreme Court justices proved that they simply do not understand how lying works in real life.

Lies must lead directly to fraud

The majority opinion in United States v. Alvarez, written by Justice Anthony M. Kennedy and joined by Chief Justice John G. Roberts and Justices Ruth Bader Ginsburg and Sonia Sotomayor, said that the Constitution does not allow speech to be prohibited solely because of its content—the message or ideas expressed. In other words, people are allowed to say anything they want, with a few exceptions, including obscenity, child pornography, threats and fraud.

Kennedy points out that “the First Amendment requires that there be a direct causal link between the restriction imposed and the injury to be prevented.” He says that that the government may restrict speech where “false claims are made to effect a fraud or secure moneys or other valuable consideration, say, offers of employment.”

In other words, if a person lies to the Veterans Administration about receiving a military medal in order to receive higher disability benefits or a bigger pension, that’s illegal. But if a person claims to be a hero in a public meeting, as Xavier Alvarez did, without receiving an identifiable benefit directly as a result of the lie, then it’s not illegal.

Lies cause little harm

A concurring opinion was written by Justice Stephen Breyer and joined by Justice Elena Kagan. They agreed that the Stolen Valor Act was unconstitutional, but for different reasons. They believed that the law harmed First Amendment rights, and the government could achieve its objective of protecting military honors through other means. In other words, the Stolen Valor Act was the legal equivalent of swatting a fly with a sledgehammer.

The problem, Justice Breyer wrote, was that the Stolen Valor Act made the act of lying about medals illegal, without demanding that someone be harmed by the lies. Breyer stated:

As written, [the Stolen Valor Act] applies in family, social, or other private contexts, where lies will often cause little harm.

Lying about military honors causes little harm in social contexts? Excuse me?

James Montgomery’s lies

My ex-husband, James Montgomery, told me that he had won the Victoria Cross, which is the Australian equivalent of the Congressional Medal of Honor, for his heroism in Vietnam. He claimed he was still in the Australian military, assigned to U.S. Special Forces. He showed me documents to back up his claims.

Montgomery didn’t only make these claims to me. He was active in the local chapter of the Vietnam Veterans Organization. He was the keynote speaker at a Veterans Day ceremony, and twice I accompanied him as he told a classroom full of school children about his military service, including how sad he was when his buddies were killed.

It was all a lie. James Montgomery was never in the military.

Montgomery lied in a “family or social context.” Did I suffer harm? You bet. James Montgomery took $227,000 from me, telling me the money was for his “businesses.” He spent much of it entertaining other women. In our divorce, Montgomery was ordered to pay all my money back, plus $1 million in punitive damages for fraud.

Did I get the money? No—I only recovered $517. I had to declare bankruptcy.

I was not the only person Montgomery swindled. I know for sure that he took large amounts of money from at least five other women, and suspect that he took money from many others as well. I know of at least one businessman who lost $100,000. I know American Express tried to sue him, and many credit card companies wrote off his debts.

I also know that James Montgomery is not an isolated case.

Lovefraud Romantic Partner survey results

All sociopaths lie. And, as I discovered while researching my book, Red Flags of Love Fraud—10 signs you’re dating a sociopath, 10 percent of respondents to the Lovefraud Romantic Partner Survey said that the sociopaths they encountered lied about being in the military or Special Forces.

So what happened to these survey respondents? Many of them lost money, just like me. The 114 survey respondents who said the sociopath they encountered falsely claimed to be military lost the following amounts:

  • Under $5,000 18%
  • $5,000 – $9,999 10%
  • $10,000 – $49,999 25%
  • $50,000 – $99,999 18%
  • $100,000 – $499,999 19%
  • More than $500,000 11%

What else happened to these unsuspecting targets?

  • 32% lost their home
  • 67% incurred debt
  • 37% were physically abused or injured
  • 44% had their lives threatened
  • 28% considered or attempted suicide
  • 26% had lawsuits filed against them
  • 16% had criminal charges filed against them

Intention to mislead

Sociopaths lie about military service, and military decorations, intending to deceive, mislead and ultimately harm their targets. How does this work?

Most Americans have high regard for members of the military. We recognize that our men and women in uniform put themselves in harm’s way to protect the rest of us. These brave individuals do the difficult and often deadly work of preserving our freedom and protecting our way of life. For that, we honor and respect them.

When sociopaths claim to be military, their goal is to assume the mantle of respect and honor that that we confer upon true members of the military. These predators portray themselves as military so that we believe they can be trusted.

I suppose there are some people who simply engage in idle boasting when they claim military honors, and their lies, as Justice Breyer wrote, cause little harm. But I’m sure that many, many military impostors engage in their reprehensible behavior with a distinct agenda. They are lying in order to pull off a scam.

But it is not necessarily a direct cause-and-effect relationship. The fakers don’t necessarily lie to steal the benefits awarded to those who truly did earn the medals. Rather, the fakers lie to create a false perception that they are responsible and trustworthy, so that they can then steal money or other valuable commodities from the rest of us.

The justices’ view of the relationship between lies and harm is simplistic. Sociopaths are extremely sophisticated in how they use their lying and manipulation to take advantage of others. And now, because of the Supreme Court’s ruling, they can do it with impunity.


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63 Comments on "Sociopaths and the real harm of lying"

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DONNA, thank you, thank you, THANK you for writing this article. Thank you.

This is precisely what I have been yammering on about for the past 6 years. My eldest son has perpetrated “Stolen Valor,” and it diminishes the true courage and sacrifice of all of those men and women who will NEVER have a normal life, again, or ever see another sunrise.

My son’s activities have procured a very, VERY healthy disability payment, for life, and the “injuries” that he experienced were self-inflicted. He never saw a DAY of combat, much less infantry training – he never left Walter Reed Army Medical Center during his 3-year enlistment. But, he has been able to convince people that he served in combat, is a decorated combat Veteran, and has the forged documentation to back up his claims.

THIS IS A HORRIBLE CRIME. Perpetrators of “Stolen Valor” take money out of taxpayer pockets, steal the integrity of actual Veterans, and diminish ANY honor that Veterans have rightly earned.

SHAME on the Supreme Court Justices. SHAME on them.

Claims about military honors aside, where on Earth did the Justices get the idea that “in family, social, or other private contexts, where lies will often cause little harm”?

Will often cause little harm? Excuse me?

What planet have they been living on?

I agree with Truthspeak.

SHAME on the Supreme Court Justices. SHAME on them all.

Once again, the education is so sorely needed.

G1S, this has really triggered my hackles because there is GREAT harm in these lies. There is economic harm. There is social/cultural harm, and there is the deliberate dismantling of honor and courage of the REAL men and women who have lost limbs, hearing, sanity, and (far too often) their lives by doing what was expected of them, even when they didn’t want to.

Education IS sorely needed – and, that’s my personal mandate to have some part in getting “the word out” about the collateral damage of socipathic/pathological lying.

More gutteral noises………..grrrrrrrrrrr…..hiss……spit

Hi to All,

I have been reading this blog nearly every day for the past couple of months. It has been really helpful to me. I have been the target of many spaths and mn’s during my life, as I was “raised” by one (my mother). They are attracted to me like moths to a flame. My most recent encounter was with a spath surgeon, and I allowed him to operate on me, even though there was a palpable evil presence about him! That experience, which happened about 8 months ago, was very traumatizing, as he did victimize me in ways I will not go into right now. This was for me the straw that broke the camel’s back. I now understand that some people are hardly human at all, and that I am often manipulated through something called “the trauma bond”.

The “grey rock” concept–which I learned here– has helped/is helping me a lot. With some people, it is actually dangerous to shine. I do try to remember this in contacts with my mother.

I will post more about myself later. Probably in dribbles. Yes, I have major trust issues, even online.

I do agree with the posters here that this was a horrible ruling. In my opinion, we should give credit to the dissenting justices. Alito filed a dissenting opinion, in which Scalia and Thomas joined. If you want to read their actual opinion, it can be read here:

http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/11pdf/11-210d4e9.pdf

The dissenting opinion begins on p 33. Truthspeak, Alito also addresses the issue of stolen-valor liars who use their lies for government benefits.

Blessings to all.

“Crazy Bob” the guy across the road where my husband’s plane crashed in a pasture owned by Bob, burned and killed my husband, and burned my son D and 2 others, sued me for $50K because “he (BOB) suffered emotional damage”—Bob had claimed when he moved here and bought that 30 acres that he was a CIA agent, worked for the FBI, had done 5,000 parachute jumps, and ya da ya da, and of course no one believed him….but he eventually convinced the VA that he suffered PTSD and got a full military disability pension….of course he laughed and told the neighbors how he had conned the VA into this…and my x BF also mentioned that he had a full military disability pension for PTSD as well, which he had learned to fake the symptoms of. So I think there are a lot of folks who may have served in the military for a little while who fake disabililties for pensions…as well as those who have never serv ed who try to claim honors in order to puff up their resumes for their abiliity to defraud others.

Lying in order to puff up your resume ought to be a crime even if it isn’t.

OxD…..hang on a second. “Crazy Bob” actually killed and burned your husband, son, and others????? Omigod…how did he get away with it?!?! Omigosh……that’s unspeakable.

Lying for accolades – happens all the time. And, it’s despicable.

Let me clarify: killed your husband, and burned him, your son, and others…….I’m simply horror-struck, OxD. How on earth do you manage your experiences?! Gosh, gosh, gosh…..

No, Truthy. The plane crashed in “crazy Bob’s’ feild and it killed Oxy’s husband and burned the others. Crazy Bob didn’t kill them, but he did collect as a result of it.

Lost another post…….

Kim, thanks for clarifying that for me. It still doesn’t lessen the horror of OxD’s tragic loss for me and the absolute vile greed of Crazy Bob for capitalizing on someone’s unspeakable tragedy.

Sanata,

Thanks for that link. It was good to read the opinions.

But what’s this about “false factual statements”? Maybe I’m splitting hairs, but isn’t that an oxymoron? A factual statement is something that is a fact, i.e., is the truth.

I can see “false statements” presented as “facts,” but “false factual statements” cannot exist.

What about perjury? Why isn’t that mentioned?

My son’s P father has presented false statements to the courts (I was present and heard them) as well as to Medicare to get himself declared disabled in order to avoid paying child support.

My attorney subpoenaed his medical records. Know what we got? Page of financial ledger entries that had no headers. In other words, no medical information whatsoever and the financial information could have applied to “Any Person USA.”

Then true to being a P, Daddy Dearest claimed that he had complied.

I believe it was Gavin de Becker (could be wrong on this source) who said that one of the more prevalent red flags of con men are claims not only to military service (a high rank within the military, of coures) but multiple medals that they had received.

My point is that these things, claiming a military background, experience, and rank that did not exist plus claims to medals, are already recognized as common con tactics.

Where does the Supreme Court get its information from? It sounds to me like they’re pulling their “facts” from out of a hat.

G1S–

“False factual statements”–LOL. You spotted a good one!

From the rest of the opinion, it’s clear he’s talking about people lying. All I can think of is that “factual” was meant as an adjective not describing the statements themselves but the reality or event, as in “false statements regarding facts”. But it certainly is poorly worded, maybe in a contorted effort to avoid the “L” word (LIE). Because we wouldn’t want to hurt the poor liars’ itty-bitty feelings, now, would we?

When will the politicians (and that includes judges, in my book)start calling a spade a spade?

Hmmm, Parallelogram. You may be on to something regarding the “false factual information”. Perhaps it’s just some weird “legalese”. I have zero legal background, but I wouldn’t be surprised if that were so.

I think you’re right on regarding cults such as Scientology. Of course they are all built on lies and run by sociopaths. I read that the term “lovebombing” came into popularity after Margaret Singer used it in her book Cults in Our Midst. I was thinking this morning about Tom Cruise, and how with his abusive childhood and deep pockets, he would be (and is)the perfect target for spaths.

Much of this decision is “legalese.” For example, to have a contract, consideration, meaning payment, must exist. This seems to be the bulk of the decision.

More on lying:

http://liespotting.com/2011/06/liespotting-lance-armstrong-part-2-expert-analysis/

Let’s hope the sociopath Lance Armstrong is finally brought to justice.

BBE:

Thanks for sharing that video.

Yes, I heard about this Supreme Court Decision. That there is nothing wrong with lying about military service. Does that also include lying to the authorities to receive benefits? That would have been one of my first questions of the Justices.

Where does the injury of the ‘lie’ eventually end up?
The way I see it, our government is turning a blind eye to the very thing they say they support: “crime free existence”. If they truly were being supportive of that premise, would they not make illegal things, illegal and bolster the welfare and protection of the people who are law abiding and contribute the most to the welfare and good of our country?

THERE IS something wrong with their decision.
It is promulgating only more wrong and evil and they need to reverse it and give the power and the honor and valor back to those who TRULY deserve it.

My x ppath did 3 back to backs in the middle east, although I do not see where his illness is contributed directly to his service, his ‘illness’ has been there from the beginning, as a small child and the service only taught him how to be a better murderer and taunter.

They bolstered that ugly persona inside of him, that was there already. While I respect his service to us all, he has dishonored the valor with which he served. The ultimate lie and deception.

Let’s hope they reverse their ruling sometime in the near future. It stains and dishonors the true heros.

Thank you Donna for this.
Dupey

And let’s not forget that any of these justices could be, to varying degrees, character disturbed. They may be liars themselves, and in total denial about the impact of their own behavior.

These folks tend to protect ‘their right’ to be effed up.

Slim

very well put slim: certainly heavy food for thought; isn’t it? hahaha: I think everyone is ‘character disturbed’ although some of us learn how to be DIFFERENT while the ppaths and spaths don’t even care….pffffft to them!

“It’s okay to lie. We will stand behind you. Go do it some more….we support you…”

Yah, right.
Better notch the security levels up a few degrees…
Maybe we’ll give it a cute little name and call it “Code Purple”…zeesh: what is this world coming to?

Dupester

Dupey, tzzzt….I agree, completely. Slimone, ditto!

I’m going to place woven natural fiber rugs on the floors of my cave………..and, it will be of a constant temperature, all year ’round.

Sometimes, I can understand how attractive and appealing willful ignorance could be…….but, only sometimes…

ha: willful ignorance: we could spend a whole year talking about that; couldn’t we?

i have seen a whole lot of that going on in the past five years of my captivity.

mwah! Truthspeak….

As a lawyer I have to admit I understand the legal reasoning behind the opinion giving sociopaths the legal right to lie. As a human being, I find giving any legal protection to the doings of these non-human vehicles of discord sickening.

One legal principle that gives me hope – the truth is a defense. By invoking that little number hopefully the organizations which run websites which expose these creatures will be able to stay up and running and continue to let the world know exactly what they are, because no matter what the sociopaths of this world may argue, the truth is the ultimate defense. And from what I’ve seen of these organzations, they verify their facts 3 times over before they publish an expose. So, I am confident they’ll be able to continue their good works.

So, while I am a bit disheartened with this opinion, I haven’t given up hope on the Supreme Court. After all, it was the Supreme Court which also came up with another legal principle – sunshine is the best disenfectant. That principle applied to open government, but I think is equally applicable here. The more light that is shined on these creatures, the better the chance of keeping them at bay.

Great link share! Thanks, Louise…
Scarey to think that it sounds about right; hm?

Very scary!

I just want to say that the whole thing with Lance Armstrong, his cancer survival, and subsequent abuse of “performance-enhancing drugs” has caused me to feel NOTHING for him, but disdain.

So, he survived cancer. Yay! Millions of people do, every year, and I don’t see THEM being lauded as heroes or courageous fighters! Anyone with half a brain cell in their craniums KNOWS that a cancer survivor wouldn’t risk being further damaged by deliberately using any substances that could cause further harm!

What Armstrong has done is to diminish the courageous battles that cancer patients have fought, won, and lost.

Jeepers, it’s so convoluted.

parellelogram:

I agree. I don’t think I would listen either until I had actually experienced it. As a matter of fact, I was warned and didn’t listen, but that’s only because I thought she had ulterior motives. She did, but what she told me was also valid. I truly think people have to experience it before they will believe, but then the damage is done; it’s too late.

Truthspeak, no Bob didn’t burn them, sorry about that….They crashed a plane in to a field owned by Bob and my husband suffered fatal burns, and the other three suffered severe burns and Bob sued me (my husband’s estate) for $50 K because He (Bob) “suffered” emotional trauma about the crash and needed money to make him feel better.

He did not get any money.

On the Lance armstrong thing, I have thought from the beginning that he blood doped or did something to get an edge and his posturing as this “hero” sort of made me think it more.

Thruthspeak;

I could not agree with you more. Lance Armstrong is not a hero. He is a sociopath who continued to risk his life in pursuit of fame, fortune and power. A very plausible argument can be made that his doping caused his cancer. At the least, there is a very, very strong possibly EPO use caused his rapid metastasis.

Livestrong is Armstrong’s Second Mile…

Divorced from Gaslighter

My ex was having extreme difficulties in the military while we were married, and finally told me that he had been honorably discharged. (He had been going through an “Article 15” procedure just prior to leaving the service.) I asked him if I could see the discharge paper, and he told me that it was “already packed” for our move, and that I could see it after we relocated. I never saw the paperwork, even though we were married for an additional five years after that point.

After the divorce, an uncle of mine who had been in the Army for an entire career tried to find out the truth about my ex’s military career through a close friend of his who had access to lots of records. But it turned out that my ex’s records were sealed very tight to the point that nobody without extraordinary clearance could access them. I assume that this means that they contain lots of negative info (he had multiple Article 15 type issues during the five or six years that he served) because he never bothered to seal our divorce and child custody court records, and those contain a boatload of embarrassing information.

My guess would be that a very significant percentage of sociopaths tell MAJOR lies during the courtship phase of any new relationship. My ex lied about, and embellished his military experiences. Lots of other sociopaths lie about their educational or social background, by saying that they attended some exclusive preparatory school or by claiming to having degrees from an Ivy League university.

There are two major problems: (1) You may not find out that the S/P was lying until you are very deeply involved in the relationship (married, pregnant, moved across the country, etc.) or (2) you may make excuses for the lie because the S or P had a tough childhood, feels intimidated by other people’s accomplishments, etc.

In my case, it was #2 — he was caught lying about his military background to an ex-military helicopter pilot right in front of me while we were engaged. I certainly KNEW that it was a bad sign, but our engagement had just occurred, and I didn’t want to look like a flake for breaking an engagement just after it was made. In a way then, it was also #1, as I thought that I was in too deep to back out.

Gaslighter, number 2 could be a punny description for the lose-lose position his lies put you in!

My SP slagged me by stating that he had served in Viet Nam for at least 90 days (said he qualified for VA mortgage financing.)
When dating, he described in detail how someone named Donny had been injured and had died in his arms during his term of service in viet Nam. (Fortunately, the slag doesn’t have reoccurring nightmares…I’m the only one who suffers from what used to be called shell shock.)

Who wouldn’t fall for a war hero like that? He came back from Viet Nam to protest the war by burning ALL of his medals (proof) on the courthouse steps in Bismark, ND…where he had grown up and lived at that time…so not an especially long road trip…I would guess he traveled less than two miles to burn his “honors”.

Other than burning those many, many medals, my SP seems to keep memorbilia…especially anything that might give him bragging rights.

Years later when I mentioned “Donny” he acted as if that person had been a class mate who has been killed…not someone who actually died in his arms.

The real tip off might be that he (A former MENSA member…who can’t pronounce most words let alone spell them and is no longer a member because he moved to Minnesota and stopped paying his dues) can’t tell military time!

I was slagged by many lies, but the military lies were the statements that broke my heart and really suckered me in.

I was slagged by a professional liar…he must be a pro because he makes money by making others trust his lies.

I am suspicious of every word he says these days! Of course, it would be pointless to call him out on most issues…he’d somehow try to make me fell guilty for even contesting what he was saying. So, I just give myself an inward grin…Think you can make me believe that story?…Guess again, you blow hard.

Slaggers are not heros, they are evil doers in disguise…sometimes military disguise!

So, I looked up Lance Armstrong to verify his sociopathy and did indeed find corroboration from various websites. On my search I stumbled onto LiveStrong.com, “Proud partner of the Lance Armstrong Foundation.” It contained numerous helpful articles about what is a sociopath, how to spot a sociopath, how to treat a sociopath. Hiding in plain sight much? Hee haw.

Boy Truthspeak you really hit the Lance-nail on the proverbial head! Right on!

Ok, I need to vent..Magic Mike Magic Mike – why couldnt it of been Magic Bob or Larry or? Why are half the men in the world named MiKe?
So who want’s to go with me to see Magic Mike?
My x was magic all right – dark magic….

(((hens))) Magic Mike; yah, right…
That’s what all Mike’s say.

Okay, I will go with you; what time is it showing?
Are we stopping at the bar afterwards?

Is that what that was? —> Dark Magic?

((huggs)))

Dupey

yap , dark magic, they can cast spell’s on ya – they also are great illusionist..they have all kinds of trick’s…
SOCIOPATH’S GOT TALENT ~!

New television show?
Instead of America’s Got Talent, it could be:
Sociopath’s Got Talent. Yes, I know all about those ‘dark spells’ and the ‘illusions’…they sure do have all kinds of tricks. Too many to keep up with.

Hope you had a good Fourth of July, hens….

Dupey! LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hi Truthspeak!

I just caught my horrorscope for the day and wanted to share it with all of you:

Taurus (4/20-5/20)

This is it — the chance you have been waiting for! Don’t you recognize it? What — you don’t? Okay, then in order to see what you need to see you have to open your eyes. This means breaking out of your current routine and looking at life through fresh eyes. Turn your world upside down by imagining what your life would be like if you were born a hundred years ago — or a hundred years from now! Suddenly, you will understand the opportunity that is right in your midst.

Well, isn’t that just mind boggling in of itself?

if you were born a hundred years ago you would be dead or very very old – if you are born a hundred years from now you wouldnt of read that stoopid horoscope.

LOL hens….
If I was born a hundred years ago I would be a very old person. If I were born a hundred years from now, I wouldn’t have read that stoopid horrorscope. hahahaha

Otay, let’s have another peach MaRgArITA and call it a day….hug yourself for me, would ya?

Hens, thanks for the laugh. Stoopid horoscope!

Hilarious 🙂

IMconfused: My ‘hero’ had different war stories each time I spoke with him. Each time the stories were re- told to me, they were something different than the last was. I guess when you are a pathological liar, it’s kind of hard to keep the stories straight as to what you have told to whom, after a while; hm?

Although there is no doubt as to his military service, it’s ‘how’ it was carried out that is in extreme doubt. I have heard several stories about ‘misdoings’ over there and I am sure there will be a lot of people who will end up paying the price for the things they have done, sooner or later. Dark, evil, befitting of a psychopath kinds of things I have heard. Not at all the ‘hero’ “IT” is trying to portray.

I believe those experiences “IT” had there only made “IT” a much better psychopath; more skilled at mind control and more dangerous to himself and to others. I have gone to endless people trying to seek assistance and everyone has turned a blind eye to me because I am not the wife nor a family member. Isn’t that pathetic? They will wait until something absolutely unspeakable and horrid happens before they will do anything about it. I think if there is ONE timebomb walking around, among us, with everyone coming home, now, how many more are out there just like that? “HEROES” who are coming home damaged. They took an already psychopathic person and enhanced all those evil skills that were necessary in war.

If you look at it like that, we don’t have a chance; do we?
And this isn’t to say that all service members who come home, come home in a messed up state of mind. I do believe that these ugly kinds are very few and far between. At least in my experience it is so.

The service didn’t make my x ppath a ppath…
He was already there when he went and done 9 years of combat. Imagine that.

I read your last post and it reminded me of myself and the things I have been through with my x ppath…I found the best thing to do is not incite anything but to just keep the inward grin and collect the red flags as you go along. If you start seeing them more and more, I would advise:
“STEP AWAY FROM THE SPATH SLOWLY”.

I wish you well and will say prayers for you IMconfused.
Hang in there. You know who you are and what you hear and what you see and what you feel sometimes is lying to us. In my case, my heart deceived me because I was too caring. Ironic, isn’t it? TOO CARING. What is this world coming to? I won’t ever turn cold like they are but I do intend on curbing my kindnesses towards others. Least of all and in particular, to people of his nature and character.

Stand strong; remember who you are…
And no, ‘slaggers’ are not heros no matter if they fought in the war or not because if you come home and still treat people that way, WHAT WORTH ARE YOU? WHERE IS THAT PERSONAL INTEGRITY AND VALOR? I mean, isn’t that what it is SUPPOSE TO BE ALL ABOUT anyways?

Dupey

HENS!!!!!!!!!! LOL…..

IMConfused, my own son self-inflicted injuries upon himself to avoid being sent to infantry training when he joined the military. He has fabricated and forged convincing military documents that support his claims that he is a “decorated combat veteran.” I have physical evidence of his forgeries in my possession, even as I type this, and nobody – NOBODY – is interested. So, he sits on his false laurels and collects disability from the military in an amount that would make you puke.

I am very, very, VERY suspicious of anyone that claims to be a combat Veteran. Spaths will spend a great deal of time researching locations and dates of events that they intend to identify themselves with. They also spend a great deal of time learning the “language” of whatever hoax they intend to perpetrate.

I agree with Dupey, IMConfused – when in doubt, listen to that small voice that says, “Something isn’t right, here.” That voice belongs to YOU and YOU are making an attempt to WARN YOURSELF about iminent danger. Too many human beings have lost their instictual abilities, or ignore that which they DO have. Trust yourself, trust your instincts, and trust that anyone who makes outrageous claims requires extensive research.

You are very, very valuable in this vast Universe, IMConfused – always remember that.

Brightest blessings

Dupey,
I find it interesting that you say you were/are too caring. I think you were too caring towards an evil being who thought you were weak.

It has occurred to me that victims of SPs have one thing in common…they cared enough to let them into their lives!

Every person on this site has been harmed by someone who they cared about and willingly shared all that they could with them.

Imagine someone picking up a hitch-hiker on a cold and stormy night. That driver wanted to help out a stranger in need. That stranger, however, might have been a psycho who then robbed and killed the kind person who gave him a ride. Wow! That senerio makes no sense to “normal” folks, but what the heck, for some reason known only to him, the psycho decided that anybody who would willingly stop to give him a ride was a person who deserved to die…and so that is what happened.

The SPs in our lives were looking for easy “marks”. Anybody who whould be dumb enough to let them into their lives, hearts, and homes was deemed to be so weak that they deserved to loose everything of value they had.

Those who stay away from these slaggers can not be harmed by them. Only those of us who are kind to them…especially those of us who come to love them, will willingly let our grards down and become available prey for them to slag.

Confused, That is an eerie comparison you make with our X’s thinking if we were dumb enuff to let them in we deserve what we get. Eerie but so true. When I first let the X “hitchhiker” move in with me I found it odd that when my son came over to help me with an addition I was building on my house he would go to the back room and sit. When my son left he would come out like everything was ok. Hmm – in hindsight he knew he had me fooled but not my son.
And I never felt at ease with the X, even when things were going ok, I was always waiting for the next rage…the next argument…sheesh I dont miss him at all anymore, havent for about a year.
And yes we are caring people and we always will be, but with smarter boundaries.

Oh yes, IMconfused: that is how they feel because I have been told so. By “IT”: “If you are stupid enough to put up with it all, then the joke’s on you and you have nothing to whine about. YOU let it happen to yourself. YOU let me do it to you, so what’s wrong with YOU?”

Oh yes, the ‘being’ I was involved with THOUGHT I was weak and that I would break but I didn’t. I came close to the edge but I am back from that edge now. Got my second wind and let me tell you, that dark place…? That dark place is gone. The light is shining onto the darkness now and there is a new beginning.

Yes, we were ‘easy marks’ because of our caring too much and they victimized it. The shame isn’t on us, it’s on them, where it has always belonged.

I was ‘targeted’ ten years ago. For the past ten years, I have been stalked under the guise of ‘caring’ and that’s just not true. I have been abused, threatened, used, you name it…and I continued to put up with it because of my compassion and understanding. However, there is no understanding when someone wishes you dead. The only thing you can understand THEN is that you need to be far, far, far, away from them.

I am finding peace with all of this now. I know it wasn’t me that made this ugliness happen. I was the target and the blame…always gotta have an ‘easy out’, ya know…

You are right, IMconfused, if you just stay away from it and from people like this, they can’t hurt you but for quite a few years of my life, I have been stalked and it grew in ugliness over the years.

I was just telling someone earlier today that I really don’t think I did too bad a job of heeding the red flags because I never allowed “IT” entirely into my life. I always kept it at bay because I could see how ugly it really was. I have to give myself more credit for all the right decisions I made and not be so harsh on myself. ie: ‘how could I be so stupid’, et al…

Peace and blessings, IMconfused…
Have a good weekend; okay?

Dupey

Hi Dupey, Hens, et al…
No, we are not ‘dumb’ enough to let them in. They LIE, cheat, steal, lie, lie, lie…..etc. We do not deserve them and they most definalely do not deserve us.

It’s so sick, the level they sink to. All to defend what? their honor? They don’t have any..their reputation? built on someone else credentials? It’s all a lie from begining to end.

How it begins is how it ends….with a lie.

Hi Ana: No, we weren’t DUMB, by caring – they were DUMB for using our caring and targeting it for their own personal gains. They DO lie, cheat, steal and lie and lie some more. They don’t care who they hurt as long as it’s not themselves.

No, they don’t deserve us nor us them. They only have brought darkness and ugliness and insanity to our lives. Without remorse, understanding nor care. That isn’t someone I want around me. Is it you? Someone you can’t trust when you shut your eyes at night or someone whose word you can’t ever believe in. Someone you can’t trust around you because you know if they get half a chance, they will gut you and leave you there to die and walk away laughing. THAT is the kind of evil I have seen.

They sink to their low levels because they can. It’s only in defense of themselves and what they want and they don’t care about anyone else. They have no honor. If they did, they wouldn’t be the horrid creatures they are.

You are right, Ana: it was all a lie from beginning to end. It started with a lie, from them, and it ended in a lie from them. We are better off without this in our lives.

Have a good weekend Ana…
xxoo

Dupey, I agree that none of us was “dumb.” The stories that I’ve read and my own experiences clearly demonstrate that spaths TARGET their victims with precision.

They see and process whatever issues that could make a “target” vulnerable, and they hone in on those issues with surgical precision, literally.

As an example, the exspath knew that I was a mother and that I was exiting an abusive marriage. He knew that I loved my sons and that I had lost them to the first exspath, and that this event had caused me incredible emotional pain. He used that desire to “mother” my sons to focus the “mothering” upon HIM. He generated PITY for himself because his own mother was emotionally unavailable to him during his childhood – he set this up, instinctively. He used my abuse issues to reassure me that I could trust him using these exact words, over, and over, “I will never abuse you like that.” LIKE THAT…..he would never abuse me LIKE THAT.

For whatever reason, spaths, ppaths, and malignant narcissists are able to drink in information, process it, and use every scrap of information to their advantage. I don’t know if this is a cognizant process – nobody does. But, it’s a frightening ability that, at some point, MUST have had a purpose for survival-of-the-fittest. Today, we are a technologically driven society on a global basis. We are programmed to believe that we no longer “need” or “require” instincts to survive, but this dark ability within the personality “disordered” world of sociopathy has not only continued, but flourished.

Certainly, spaths have existed since before modern man walked upright – certainly. But, it seems to me that today’s society and cultures actually encourage and enable sociopathy to an extreme degree. When I first began to learn about spathy, the estimate was less than 1%. Then, it went up to 4%. Now, the estimate is at 20%.

I don’t know much, but I know that my boundaries are being constructed of emotional steel – pity, lying, manipulation, and so forth are NOT tolerated.

As an aside, I was teaching a class the other day and this young, buff man was one of the “teachers” that brought in this huge group of children for a workshop. I was doing a demonstration and he walked over and stood in front of me and said that he was ready to reenact the scene from “Ghost” when Demi Moore and Patrick Swayze were on the potter’s wheel. I replied that the scene was inaccurate and that there was nothing romantic about throwing one’s first pot on the wheel. Then, this young man indicates his physique and says, “It would with this!” Meaning that HE had what it took to turn ANYONE on, regardless of age or anything else. I looked directly at him and said, “Honey, that doesn’t work for me.” And, he insistently replied, “Aw, c’mon! How could you resist THIS?!” I looked at him like he was road-kill and said, “I don’t see anything TO resist.”

WHAT A BUFFOON!!!! Like I was going to get all giddy, bat my eyes, and flirt with an obviously narcissistic man while I’m in the middle of a demonstration????

Someone, please….hold the bucket – I’m feeling as if I’m going to vomit….

To clarify on the “need” for instincts: we, as a culture and society, have LOST the ability to recognize our instincts as a mechanism of protection and defense. I “need” to listen to my instincts like it’s the evening news. My instincts have a much better grasp on what is, and isn’t, dangerous, and I am working on redeveloping trust in MYSELF to listen to that inner voice.

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