By | October 22, 2006 170 Comments

Sociopaths drag their families into the con

Sociopaths will manipulate anyone. Let me repeat that. Sociopaths will manipulate absolutely anyone, including mom, dad, brothers, sisters—anyone. One way that this happens is the sociopath gets his or her family—knowingly or not—to participate in the victimization of the target.

Lovefraud received an e-mail from Rod in Nebraska. Rod’s daughter had been targeted by a sociopath. In his e-mail, he wrote the following:

One thing that I do believe should be approached about a sociopath is his ability not only to control his victim, but also his family. The sociopath works his family to the extent that he manipulates his immediate family into believing that none of his problems in life are his fault and consequently the blame falls on the one he wooed into a relationship. In this manner he deliberately cons his family into enabling him in his behavior. Oh, poor guy, the world is against him, he has a seizure disorder and has the gout. Thus concluding my opinion that he controls his universe and his family’s.

Family ties

There are parents who continually bail out their sociopathic children—even as grown adults. There are family members who continually acquiesce to the sociopath’s demands, maybe just to maintain the peace.

Sometimes the families are just as clueless as everyone else. They don’t understand the sociopath’s behavior, but they feel family members are obligated take care of each other. They believe the sociopath when he or she blames the victim for whatever is going wrong.

Other times, the family members are sociopathic themselves—the risk of developing this personality disorder is genetic. So they see absolutely nothing wrong with predatory behavior.

So to escape, the victim must often stand up to not only the sociopath—which is difficult enough—but the sociopath’s entire family as well.

Comment on this article

Please Login to comment
Notify of
will be okay

I know in my case, when I met his family, his mother gave me a strange look as we were introduced. It bothered me because I couldn’t put my finger on it. Later when a female coworker found out we were dating, she gave me the exact same look. Now I realize what it was. It was a look of concern, and now I know why. Mom knew he would eventually cheat on me, and break my heart, and the (married) coworker had an affair with him, while both we’re married, so she knew he was a cheater, too. Neither woman warned me. A year & 1/2 later I was devastated. Upon meeting his father, my impression was that he seemed incredibly arrogant, and condesending. Hindsight really is 20/20. His parents also enable him by allowing him to live in his grandparents old house, free of charge. They help him out financially alot, yet he’s a critical care paramedic who should not be living paycheck to paycheck, especially since he doesn’t pay rent. Honestly I think he spends all his money on porn and phone sex, but if he was my son making that kind of money (not a ton around $30,000. a year) I’d be inquiring where all the $$ is. He lives 2 houses away from his parents, and they feed him every night. Oh yea, and his mom even pops the zits on his back for him, he’s 37-years-old!!!! I could go on, and on!! Part of me thinks mom knows he’s evil (because of that look) but then I wonder, because they enable, baby, and cater to him so much. All I can say I’m glad to be away from the whole lot of them. I just wish he hadn’t messed my life up so much, and women should definitely warn each other in obvious & verbal ways. That being said, If I ever get a look like that again from someone in a similar circumstance, I’ll take it to heart.

will be okay

PS.. He has two sisters who didn’t warn me either. Even though, turns out he has a history of cheating, continually! on his ex wife & every girlfriend.


Strangely enough, the sociopath I was involved with still lives with his mother at age 46! his mother and I got along great she is 76 years old and I felt I could talk to her about anything, she was well aware that something was wrong with her son, she would often say “He thinks the whole world revolves around him” or “he always thinks he is right about everything” On one occasion she called me to ask me to look up a condition to see if this may be the reason he behaves the way he does, by the way she paid his car off for him after it was repossessed to the tune of $14,000, he is working at present but that is only a matter of time, he has gotten into numerous arguments and threatened people on the job he gives her next to nothing to live there, he is in and out of trouble and back in his younger days took the life of his own baby. Why was I with him you might ask? me an intelligent woman, well he told me after two weeks of dating that he did fourteen years and that it was an accident. It did freak me out at the time, I one day asked his mother about it and she to was in denial about it blaming the crib. The truth is and the word on the street was he beat and shook the one year old baby to death, because he was jealous of it.
His mother said they were not allowed to talk about it within the family in case it upset him!! and she was actually very relieved to discuss it with me as I felt it was something that had to be talked about, so one day I sat him down and told him we had to talk about it I had questions and we would never talk about it again. What I did notice as he relayed what happened, he told me it seemed like he punched the baby, was the lack of remorse he did not cry or really show much emotion! SERIOUS RED FLAG! basically he trivialized it, as that happened 20 years ago. In answer to the question anyone reading this will be thinking, “What the hell was I thinking” I really can not answer that, his family are a loving family and they were so happy he was with someone “Normal” I was convinced at the time that I could help him turn his life around WRONG!
I came to find out he almost beat his last girlfriend to death, she did cheat on him so in his mind that was justified, when everything finally came to a head with me after numerous physical assaults that I did not report, one family member made me see the light he asked me if I knew why the sociopath had been in prison? I said yes, he then asked me “Well what chance do you stand”? That hit home and I went and got a restraining order immediately.
His mother even told me well “do what you have to do”. I do not understand though why she still enables him, I almost sent her Dr. Hares check list and various articles about sociopaths but decided against it, as at the end of the day he is still her son and she loves him, so it would be futile. I did however write her a letter outlining some it, as the same family member that had asked me that profound question said he believed she was afraid of him so I wrote her and told her she should not be afraid in her own house and to maybe have a family intervention as the sociopath takes drugs, marijuana, and I was told he laces it with crack cocaine. He also drinks fairly heavily, so I don’t know if anything happened with that. The bottom line is, with the sociopath I was involved with his whole family are more than aware that something is very wrong with him, yet it seems noone has the balls to actually stand up to him and throw him out of his mother’s house.


My sociopathic ex still live with his mother, when he’s between girlfriend. He’s an only child, and I wonder a lot if his a mother is his victim or his accomplice. After we broke up, in December, my ex went back to live with his ex-girfriend (he hide it from me), but whenever I called at his mom place, she never told me that he wasnt living there, she was always making excuse for him. In fact, she was lying for him. I dont know what he told her, if he fooled her or something, but she had a lot of opportunity to tell me he was back with his ex and she never did !


Oh so true…..thought it was worth bringing back up!

Quantum Solace

You guys are so funny! And collectively describe my own experiences. The monster in my life was still living with mommy and daddy at age 28. Better yet, he was still a virgin! Had dated only one woman before me for a very short period of time and she dropped him like a hot potato, in fact, when she saw our wedding announcement on the local paper, I heard that she said “that poor girl, I feel sorry for her.” Ha! Too bad I never got to meet her, the stories she must have had. So, anyway, Mommy made his bed in the morning and left the porch light on so that when he came home late from the strip clubs, he wouldn’t stumble and brake his crown. His father drove him to and from college all of the 7 or 8 years that it took him to get a 4-year degree. Of course, all of this was unbeknownst to me until 7 years into the marriage as all I heard throughout that time was all the bragging about the women he had been with and yaddah yaddah yaddah.

In my case, I blame the parents for the social disorder that this individual is afflicted with. They had the most dysfunctional relationship I’ve seen in my life and fed off each other like a leach on a main artery. She played the victim part and manipulated him into doing everything from housework to the finances. He felt empowered by his wife dependence and impotence and let her play him like the fool he was. They were married 50-some years and he never found out that his wife was (get this!) 12 years older than him! When they met, she was in her forties and he in his late 20s. She lied to him and told him she was 2 years older. She took that little open secret which everybody but him knw about to hell with her when she died. The father also was a Spath of sorts and was the main cause of his son’s. The old fart was in his 70s and still kept pornography laying around so that people that came to the house could see what a viril macho he was.

Sick, sick, sick, I tell ya, sick!


will be okay:

You wrote: “women should definitely warn each other in obvious & verbal ways.”

In my opinion, this won’t work, and I’ll tell you why I think that.

When you FIRST meet an Spath, you are so enraptured by their awesome personality, their charm, their charisma, their intelligence, etc. If someone tells you something bad about them, you won’t believe it. Those that know him/her … know that! They know where you’re at in the relationship because they’ve been there. They know that you won’t believe them and will have to find out for yourself.

I could try to reach my daughter who is now under the spell of my Spath, but I know where she is in the relationship.. She’s in the “honeymoon” stage. In her eyes, he’s charming and intelligent. He’s the knight in shining armor.

If I say something to her about his sociopathic ways, she’ll deny it. He’ll convince her that Mom is crazy … and it will only serve to drive her further away from me.

I wish it were different, but it’s not.


Too Late:

I agree with you.
I would even go so far as to say that some people are enraptured to the point of addiction.

And, when the ADDICTION is in control, there’s nothing you can do.
An addict needs to hit “rock bottom” on their own, before they can begin to come out of it.

The scary thing is that nobody knows what the “rock bottom” will be, and it is different for everyone.

It can take many years to overcome an addiction.


Too Late,

I agree, at first people some people are enraptured by their charm, etc. But I do not think all people react that way. In fact, my daughter is married to a p/s and her brothers never were enraptured by him. They always said, “Why is she with HIM?” “What does she see in HIM?” They never came under the spell. My women friends in their forties were completely different. I saw some of my friends change and flirt like I never saw them do before. They were hypnotized by his charisma.

My daughter is still in the honeymoon stage with her spath husband. It could take time until she comes out of the fantasy she has created in her mind. It is not reality, but fantasy!


yes…it’s like in the scary movie when the audience screams at the victim NOT TO GO DOWNSTAIRS…what does she do? goes downstairs….

I was enraptured, his sister told me after that she thought even that maybe this time he had found someone he loved, even though she had the look of concern, as did his neighbours…all his friends looked at me as if ” what are you doing with him are you mad” but no one could tell me, I would have bitten their head off I was that in love (intoxicated more like, it wasn’t love)

anyone who hinted at him being a bit odd was in my mind ‘just jealous’ because they didn’t have him ha ha my God I was insane. I WANTED HIM AND NOTHING WAS GOING TO STAND IN MY WAY….oh boy the rock bottom was horrific…what it took for me to finally see this creep for what he really was!

He used his possibly innocent parents as props in his scam. They seemed normal enough, kind, protective of him, pampering and in awe of him (like me) He hated his sister, who really tried to tell me, via her looks and her snappy way of answering him, she was very intolerant of anything he said and kind of laughed him off. Later when I was on my knees begging for help she came clean about how she felt about him and it was pure contempt YET she was strangely bound to him…yikes I’m so glad i’m away from all of em!!!


I’m just thinking the only thing that might have made a difference was if someone had said….watch him he is a psychopath. He has no true remorse and is just acting, if you don’t believe me test him out” That is what I would say to his girlfriends now (and possibly his new wife) and any other woman in his net. He fills his net with anything and everything. A true exploiter of women.


I was told he was no good for me…..
I was 13 years old…..I knew everything!!!!

Nobody could tell me…..”you just dont know him the way I dooooo”…..”he’s had it so tough”…..He loves me…..

I was the girl….who thought she was soooooospecial!

I believe it’s all about planting seeds…..not outright saying it….just giving inuendos…..and let them fertilize it and see it’s peutrid stumps sprout.

People once on the defensive…..defend the perp…..the ‘downtrodden’ person who is spoken poorly of……
so if we just plant the seeds and walk away…..people will take notice on thier own….
It’s like teaching our children…..we can’t just tell them…..all the mistakes we have made and expect them to ‘divert’ the same mistakes….human nature is to learn on our own…..


I was told by my spath that he wasn’t good for me. Snort! Using the truth to tell a lie.

spathy, twisty, they are SO weird.


Don’t know how I missed this one 16 months ago when I was devouring the archives, but it’s a good one. If anything, this article should be EXPANDED upon.

My S-ex’s family was a really interesting case. His father and the two broters who “bookeneded” him wanted nothing to do with him. They saw him for what he was. His now comatose and brain-dead mother (who apparently Mother Theresa once said “And they call ME a saint!” if you believe the S-ex) and two younger brothers apparently bought his story hook, line and sinker and enabled him to the hilt.

But, the interesting person in S-ex’s family was his sister who came right in the middle after my S-ex and his two older brothers and before the two younger ones. She was a really bright woman, very accomplished. While she was somewhat “loyal” to him, I know she was mystified by what she saw. In my opinion that’s why she made it a point to move cross-country and have as little to do with him and her family as possible.

This concludes N/S/P case study #15634920897.


I warned the 22 year old girl my 36 year old ex S was dating…sort of…not directly but indirectly in a way that could never be linked back to me. Turns out, a year later when the relationship finally ended, the S blamed me and that one little hint he concluded was from me for the demise of the year long relationship and the three hour lecture he got from her mother, who had spent considerable time with him, about him not being a child of God but the son of Satan!

I’m guessing he’s managed to blame me for his latest break up even though I never met her, knew her full name or anything about her. Actually, I never knew the full name, phone number or email of the year long relationship, either, but I’m now being accused of bringing him up on charges for violating the Custody Order because I’m jealous when he starts seeing someone new! LOL!!! Ridiculous!

People find out in their own way and their own time. Take care of you. Your refusal of contact should say enough. That’s not a normal way to deal with an ex…especially if there’s kids involved. NC alone speaks VOLUMES to someone who’s able and ready to listen!


Family stats on mine:

Three older sisters
Two BiPolars
One Schizophrenic
And a drug dealing mom in a pear tree!

Mom’s also been diagnosed with bipolar but I’ve come to believe they all have Borderline Personality Disorder, including my son’s father. They’re like a crazy hurricane waiting to hit whoever they feel intimidated by, or can’t manipulate, like an f’n brick! I would be both…

Oh…and Dad’s had a new family and another dozen or so kids, after he gave up being a Pagan pledge.

And my poor little four year old hangs out with this crew and their cutting, arson, cousin molesting offspring. God help him!


Wow….what a prize clan.

The S testified in court one time that I feel if I couldn’t have him, then nobody could.
Funny….that testimony was made at a hearing to keep HIM away from me!!!
Furthermore he couldn’t tell the judge one time when had tried to contact him or anyone else.
I bit of projection there!

Ox Drover

Hi, guys, and especially Banana,

I’m back home, drove in yesterday and spent today unpacking, etc.

Matt,, I’m with you, don’t know how I missed this one, but it IS a GREAT ONE. Yes, they “recruit” many family members to enable them, to persecute the victim, to BLAME the victim.

After my son C left my house, in cleaning up his room, I found an audio tape called “threat” and I figured there was a taped call from me on there, and there was, but also there were other calls, VERY interesting calls, including the one where I told the Trojan Horse Psychopath that he had 24 hours to leave my mother’s house and the farm or I would turn him in to the police as not being “registered” properly as a sex offender.

There was also a taped call of HIM calling the police and telling them that I (as his land lady) had “thrown him out on the street” and that he was working as a caregiver for my egg donor and that he didn’t have the “10 days” to register because he was out on the street. My gosh, how he was such a victim of me! There were other calls as well, and quite interesting. I had had the tape almost a month but was loath to listen to it, afraid it would “trigger me” but it didn’t, in fact, there are some things on there that I think will be interesting to the attorney I have hired to protest my P-son’s parole hearing.

I enjoyed the three weeks I spent at my best friend’s house, it was very laid back and stress free which was good for me. I needed that time away from here. I’m re-strengthened and ready to get back to preparing the case for my attorney. I went through most of the letters from my son to the Trojan Horse psychopath, and though it was emotionally difficult, I did it, and am ready to go through the rest with a “vengence”—set on making a good case. I have also finished the summary “letter” to my attorney and am ready to tackle the “condensed” version.

Son D took mail to son C and got triggered by that contact, but is recovering and we spent a great day together today just doing things around here and talking. D is getting his “pegs” back under himself and doing better. Son C called him today but he did not answer the call.

I’m doing much better on an increased dose of my antidepressants too, and I think that is helping some, plus, time and working hard toward getting my self back taking care of ME again.

Banana, hang in there sweetie, his mother may know something is wrong with “junior” but probably also tries to minimize it as well. The thing is that it is difficult for us to SEE what is right before our eyes and try to “minimize” and “explain” the past behavior and keep up a hope that it will get better.

I know it is hard to see a son for what he is—God alone knows how hard I had to work to keep up that false hope, but there came a point for me that I could not do it any more, my life was on the line. I don’T think if there hadn’t been a REAL live threat to my very physical LIFE that I would have gotten it. But I DID, and it hurt, and when I realized that he had duped my egg donor, and my other son C, it hurt like hell.

When C chose to lie to me in December, the thing is, it HURT JUST AS MUCH “losing” my egg donor and my P-son had hurt, but the DIFFERENCE is that though it HURT, I DISCONNECTED from C. He isn’t a P, but he is NOT any “saint” either, and when I realized that he had been REPEATEDLY duped by my egg donor, and by his P-brother, and by the Trojan Horse Psychopath and WORKED actively AGAINST me, REPEATEDLY, and he knew the rules, and he KNEW A LIE WOULD SEVER OUR RELATIONSHIP, YET HE DID IT ANYWAY. Shows me, I cannot depend on him any more NOW than I could in the past.

He now knows his brother is a P, and that my egg donor is enabling him, and he did go NC with the egg donor as well as his P-brother, but I can’t trust him to be truthful to me and his adopted brother D. I don’t have any doubt that he will work with me to deprive his P-brother of any money from my egg donnor at her death, because it is to his benefit, and if I need him to send a letter to the parole board objecting to his P-brother’s parole release, he will, but as far as a relationship with him from now on, he is just as dead to me as his P-brother is. I have no desire for a relationship with him. I’ve done my grieving, I’ve cried, and I have buried the little boy just as deep as I buried his P-brother, and I don’t like the MEN they have become, I don’t want relationships with them.

I need liars in my life WHY? Everyone who is close to me, knows that ONE LIE and they are persona non grata in my life. My son C knew that, and yet he chose to lie, planned the lie, and kept it up, refused to admit it, and apparently doesn’t care enough about me to tell me the truth. I am disappointed in that situation, but it isn’t one that I can control. How he behaves is up to him, how I react is up to me, and I CHOOSE to not have a relationship with a liar—even if I did give birth to him. That child I bore is gone, and the MAN who is in his place is a liar, too bad. I wish it was not the case, but it IS REALITY and I have to deal with REALITY, not “fantasy.”

Hang in there Banana, you are getting stronger every day. I can see the difference since you first got here, you are 10 feet tall now! Hold your head up and realize what a piece of crap you are dealing with, tell yourself over and over what you know is the truth. ((((hugs)))) and always prayers, Love Oxy





Welcome back home darlen!
Keep the balance!


Welome back OxDrover:)x I am glad you had a break and a rest. You deserve much more of that.x


Glad you’re back Oxy….LF truly isnt the same without you. And you showed all of us how important it is to take time for ourselves to re-charge!! But you will always be like the energizer bunny in my eyes! Again, welcome home. Good luck with preparations for the case youre working on!


These are words from my ex-sociopath mother crying:

“My poor son”he is unlucky with relationships”woman don’t respect him”that’s why he has to change partners all the time”he has such a good heart”he is the most generous person I know”I feel so sorry for my son”and I cry so much for him because he is my first child— and she goes on and on and on appreciating and honoring his son.

“Her son has four kids with four different women”.



I don’t know whether to laugh or be sick. This mother is obviously part of her son’s “extended S. family”.

I SHOULD have had the first clue what my ex was when we went to visit his family and they all called him “Nixon”. That’s his nickname and they all know what he is. Did I get the clue? NOOOO….had to go through a few years of hell first. I also had a lot of his family members (who will NOT allow him into their own homes) tell me I would be good for him. It was all just an act. He ACTED like he was a new person, probably hoping they would all trust him again. They didn’t and still don’t.

Ox Drover

Thanks everyone for the “welcome home” thoughts! It IS good to be home and I think son D was really glad to see me home. He said “now I know how you feel when I go for to work” and he described the “empty” feeling of the house, he even turned on the TV or radio talk shows to hear “noise” and “voices” in the house. Yep, been there and done that!

I did come home with renewed strength and really enjoyed the time with my friend. Went to the state “Fat Stock” show and also watched the cutting horse contests which was cool, and hit every flea market and junk store in a 70 mile radius, spent time at her hunting cabin (more like a house) and went to her spinning, weaving and knitting group and met some really cool friends of hers. Watched a lot of TV (she has cable) and read, we exchanged two huge boxes of booksl so I have a bunch more good books I brought home with me.

Her ex BIL that she is still very friendly with has a father who is being ATTACKED by a woman and the woman literrally tried to kill the old man and did all kinds of financial things. The court has finally thrown her out of the man’s home (he is now in a nursing home which has limited access) it is a night mare for the family and they really don’t know what they are dealing with. Apparerently this woman is like Sante that “black widow” who pulled multiple scams along with her son and probably killed SEVERAL people through the years. (can’t remember the last name of the woman)

Saw a GREAT movie on TV with good suspense, great bad guys and Jodie Foster as the star called “Panic Room”–if you haven’t seen it, by alll means do.

I also watched a lot of Dateline and 20/20 (mostly reports on different psychopaths) as well as Histroy channel, oh, I do love History Channel and “Histories Mysteries” so when we were at my friend’s house we entertained oursleves reading, watching TV (mostly good shows) and talking. During the days we got out and roamed around except for a couple of mild snow/sleet days, so did a lot of things I seldom do here.

Don’t miss the “city” though, glad to be back where it is QUIET at night, but was nice having stores only a few blocks away instead of 13-30 miles away.

My little dog was so glad to see me home (I couldn’t take him as she has one just like mine that is not other-dog-friendly) so it would have been a dog fight.

Changed forever you are right about how many of the parents of Ps “explain” their kids’ turbulent lives—blame it on others. I know a P guy less than 35 who has 9 kids by 5-6 women, andj at one time had two preg at once, one with TWINS…they spread their seed far and wide.

In some cases that I have known of the women deliberately get preg because they think it will “bind” the man to them….WRONG IDEA!

Twice Betrayed

Since I have morals/honesty and tried to raise my daughter the same way….when my PX wanted credibility, he pulled my daughter and me [out] of the hat-took me a long time to realize this. He hid behind us the whole time–all the while pumping that marital illusion our way. Hind sight=20/20!

Ox Drover

Thanks, Gem, I have swiss cheese for a memory, especially on names….CRS! I hope you are doing well after your bout with the blahs, I’m doing much better.

Been a busy day today, cleaning up the mess I made unpacking, and doing laundry, paying bills and such! UGH! My least favorite thing to do, we still have snow on the ground and it is pouring rain and 37 degrees F, odd that the rain isn’t melting the snow, so I imagine tonight it will all turn to ICE blocks when the temp goes down. Next 5 out of 7 days are predicted RAIN! and cold!

I took so much stuff with me because I wasn’t sure what the weather would do, and as it turned out it was balmy down there, like spring or fall, then COLD, so was good I took lots of different layers. My friend asked me if I was coming to live there!

I saw a TV show on Sante and her son, and the things and cons they did, and it was amazing even to me, that she had PLENTY of money and yet she went on stealing, conning etc. when she DIDN’T HAVE TO DO IT in order to be “rich.” The bounced checks for the cars was the most stupid thing I think she did–DUH, like it wouldn’t be found out! and SOON at that!

That poor old lady that “disappeared” and they tried to steal her Manhattan house, forging her name.

I actually think that Sante did those things as a form of “entertainment” because she got “high” on the RISK. I’ve seen my P son do the same thing, and I think at least one of your daughters sounds like the same kind of con-person, the daughter who stole the money from her company. Is there no way they get her arrested?

Never once on that show did the explain she was a sociopath or put a name to what she did/was. To me she was a text book example.


Yes, I’ve seen this happen. My daughter’s evil husband has all of his family fooled! (or does he) I was incredulous when they did not believe what I was telling them and how he was treating our daughter, HIS wife! Of course at that particular time I did not realize what we were dealing with, A SOCIOPATH! However, soon afterwards after many many hours of researching and reading up, It all became very clear to me exactly WHAT we were dealing with. Whatever he told them was a twisted convoluted “tail” to suit only his purposes, the poor me and they “hurt” me, they lied to me. ALL b/c of money which he thought he was entitled to. So as my other postings have said, he’s all about the almighty money. All the feedback from them was “he treats her like a Queen” EXCUSE me! That’s why he drills and berates her, that’s why he’s isolated her, no communication to family. That’s why he calls her dumb and does not deserve his name. (He is the one who does NOT deserve her) Reads her emails, etc. Oh yes, that’s definitely how to treat a queen. He doesn’t tell them all of this now does he. He tells her what goes on between the two of them is ONLY between the two of them. Well OF COURSE it is, because he doesn’t want anyone to KNOW what he is!
But I know exactly what he is and he knows I know. So of course he has to isolate her, and cut off communication from her family! How in the hell do they NOT realize something is terribly wrong with their own freaking son! How can anyone NOT know something is wrong with their child. He hides it well and has everyone fooled, except HER family! Of course he had us fooled too, but not for long!
He’s lied about who he’s professed to be, about the wealth his family is professed to have and every things else. It’s all been a lie; however I will say, they ALL go right along with whatever he’s lying about??? I do not get it! All they all freaking S/P’s? Or just covering up his ass wanting HIM to get the monies too? MY god! Now that’s a very scary thought isn’t it?

Just spotted this via Google, and landed back onto the site! Thank you Donna, you got it perfectly. The irony, I am 38 and living with my parents – but for totally different reasons. So it’s odd reading back ‘the S is living with their parents’. The genuine reasons why I am in the position I am has been misinterpreated and no doubt fed back to my family by the psychiatrist. They ensure I fit the profile of the classic sociopath by orchestrating events where I will likely prject classic sociopathic behaviour. Before my enlightenment, I had a list of previous experiences to draw upon that easily give the impression that I am a S. Abusers build up a catalogue of events/experiences to complete their screenplay. Dangerously with a S psychiatrist in the equation (to educate my family of S traits); they are under the impression that I am disordered.

The watertight lies are impossible to permeate. Do I print out an article that describes my situation for the attention of the most insightful person i know who has seen the bullying (ironically that’ll be my S-sister’s husband!).

I am so interested in producing a screenplay that I’d dearly love to see adapated. 4 half hour/hour-long scenarios each one focussing on a specific dynamic:


Ox Drover

Dear Outlier,

I wish each of us could have a site as beneficial and educational as LoveFraud—I wish there were a million sites educating people about socio/psychopaths–and still it wouldn’t be enough!

Their ability to LIE IN THE FACE OF EVIDENCE and pull it off is amazing, really! They don’t bat an eye, have no shame, no remorse, and seem to think if they say something loud enough and long enough that it becomes true.

If they are lying to someone who loves them, we give them the benefit of the doubt, over and over and OVER! No matter how much evidence that we see that they are lying accumulates.

Society also tells us that we must “never give up” on helping them, and we enable them to continue their lies, all the while lyiing to ourselves that THIS TIME it will work. They lie to us and WE lie to ourselves, a perfect relationship…… until FINALLY the scales fall from our eyes and WE SEE. Some people never SEE.


Well there is that question that asks if you have two boats and one leaks and one doesn’t and only enough food for one, do you feed the people who will perish anyway because their boat is sinking or do you feed the people in the boat that will keep floating?

from a social point of view, its hard not to want to find a way to make things different. If they could be helped, the rest of us would be so much less at risk. We can’t take them out just for being what they are- even though the temptation to do so in individual cases is huge and we see that over and over again.

Millions of people. Thats a lot of people who are going to live hard and if the ones you and I know are example, at the expense of the rest of us because they live at our grace in hospitality centers… so to speak.

The concept of so many who will die so hard because the way it adds up is the amateurs will be involuntarily retired from their livelihood if they don’t make and keep a catch before they are too old. The others will make mistakes and be given hospitality.

So as society, what is the answer? There is not a clear one.
I think it is a tough problem. But not one that is specifically mine, any more….

Ox Drover

Dear Silvermoon,

I have no problems with deciding who to “feed” in the life boat situation….the guy who CHOPS A HOLE IN HIS BOAT and then expects me to give him my boat AND my food is S.O.L. cause I will defend myself—I do not owe it to him to let him take my boat, my food and push me overboard!

I don’t think it is a tough problem at all.



Your response to Outlier is so true. I have finally absorbed the fact that when a spath lies, he literally believes his lie(s) (in the moment), an example being, my h-spath (when he was still living in our home) would tell me that he’d paid the mortgage (but he hadn’t), being insulted when I doubted his words, wanting proof from him that he did what he claimed. I ended up taking care of the mortgage, realizing (a hard lesson for me) that he’s capable of putting us out on the street.

Ox Drover

That’s the hardest thing, I think, Bluejay, for us to grasp is that they lie when there is NO WAY THEY CAN HIDE THE LIE. I mean it isn’t like it isn’t going to bite them either immediately or quickly on something like that—-yet they still lie and get defensive, really angry if you don’t believe them.

The FIRST sign of that type of lie was at age 11 with my P son when he was confronted with a theft he had done. TOTAL LIE and held on to that lie even with EVIDENCE in front of him, no way to deny it, but he DID. STILL DOES.

Yes, he would have lied and said he paid it as the sheriff set you, your kids and your stuff on the curb and been pithed when no one believed him! LOL It’s hard to grasp, for us, but not for them some how.


Dear OxDrover,

This web site is a godsend for so many people. It’s taken me a while to absorb truths about my h-spath, letting my brain process information at it’s own pace.

Thank you so much everyone.

Her serial bullying, gaslighting and mental abuse I could live with for 40 years. It was safely contained. Well hidden. So long as I kept my mouth shut I enjoyed the spectacular views on moral high ground. Then I broke silence (without mentioning abuse in any shape or form, all I did was announce “I’m cutting her out of my life” to my brothers). This broke the merry contained abuse and I posed a threat. She rolled up her sleeves and got to work.

So the abuse I was “okay” with (I knew she had a problem) becomes a totally new abuse I am not okay with. 40 years of her abuse AND x number of years enabling, isolation, slander from brothers, inlaws and possibly thei children. They aren’t ‘abusing’ me. They’re not responsible for their actions as my brothers don’t/didn’t hurt me. They’re playing the part as per the rules of the sociopath. Who will ever question a doctor and a consultant psychiatrist who is projecting her disorder word for word onto me? And who in their right mind will continue a relation with someone who is labelled a sociopath? The two abusers have watched fireworks explode ever since I broke a 40 year silence. Each time I exhibit a classic victim behaviour they polish their trophies. The psychiatrist asks my sister what’s going on with x, y, z. To which she hears back the destruction she caused. Sister keeps her uptodate with everything. Who’s fallen out with whom [polish], why I was absent when brother from abroad visited [polish], the sudden smoking (ptsd) habit I took up [polish], feedback from brothers [polish].

Amazing how I can say I was okay with the original abuse. That was way more contained.

Um, OxDrover, should I ask what a horse cutting contest is?

And geminigirl, I just noticed a post with your contact details. I passed on my contact detail to Ms Anderson to pass to you, you may have got that. No obligation at all, if I don’thear from you that’s absolutely fine. Nice though to learn you’re in Australia. I’ve been watching The Thornbirds – wondering now if Father de Brisicart (sp) was a sociopath. Please say no, as I’d never lookupon that love story the same way. I’d vouch Luke o’Neil (megan’s husband played by Bryan Brown) is.


outlier – a cutting horse works cattle. in the competitions the horse/rider will ‘cut’ (separate) a cow or calf from a herd and keep it separated. not an easy feat with a herd animal. on a farm or ranch you’d do this so that you could brand a cow, ship it, treat it medically, etc.



Regarding “The Thornbirds”:

No, Father de Bricassart was not a sociopath.
He truly loved Meggie, and she loved him.
That’s why the drama is so compelling!!!

Luke O’Neill…..that’s another story.
Mary Carson (Barbara Stanwyck) was also a little toxic….if I remember correctly. 😉

Ox Drover


LOL A “cutting horse” contest is where horses compete (with rider but the horse must act independently of signals from the rider) to separate (cut) a calf from a herd of calves, and keep it from returning to the herd. Sort of like a sheep-dog separates sheep from the herd. It is really awesome to see the horse moving so quickly in response to the calf’snatural tendency to bolt back to his mates in the herd.

What country are you in? I think this is primarily western US, maybe Canada and Austrailia possibly.


Outlier, I am a screenwriter. I have written a script about my life, FEAST OF MEN.. and one producer was looking a Michelle Pheiffer as playing me.. but it just didn’ get off the ground yet.
I have also writtne a book DADDY THROWS ME IN THE AIR.. about perceptions of childhood experiences…

What the TUDORS.. on the history channel.. talk about a classic sociopath..


But you can write and read and think. I get it, only to be pulled back into the insanity at a weak time of your life.. it’s as if they are weak seeking missiles that take aim and fire when any weak spot is exposed.

Ox Drover

Dear Style, I saw the Tudors too, and yes, many of the ruling classes of many nations all down through recorded history were psychopaths. They rose to the top because they were willing to do whatever it took to get there, including lie, cheat, steal and kill. It is still the same today in most countires, I think. Some countries have more “democracy” than others but in many or even most politicians they rise to the top because they are willing to DO what it takes to succeed in a cut throat situation.

I can’t remember the name of the series, but it was the one about the British where the guy was trying to become Prime Minister. Oh, my goodness was he a psychopath!!!! GREAT SHOWS!

Style, I think most drama in one way or another shows psychopathic traits and behaviors…it is what makes drama exciting! It makes a good story. LOL Look at all the “SOAPS” on TVG, every one of them is about one or more psychopaths! The entire plots are about psychopathic behavior.


Well, this is like my Dad is…. you are in ‘favor’ as long as you ‘behave’, ‘agree’ and do as he wishes..
any disagreeement is like “off with your head” To the tower with you! I am the stand up and talk type and not afraid of conflect but I think I bite off my nose to spite my face at times..

I am so sick of his behavior over the years, that times, I can be fast to snap..

I need to learn to play the game.. humor him.. but I respect him to much to do that.. but my sisters and others do the humoring and most of the time stay out of his line of fire.. I walk into it… at times, I feel that I can’t stand him.. his arrogance and so easy to dismiss or attack anyone that challenges him..

one time years ago, I was going through a rough time and was voicing my opinion to him and he told me that he wished I was dead..
I have such an emotionally abusive history with him.. when I watched the Tudors.. I mean, it was like watching my Dad..

then at other times, when I am up and someone tells him how ‘pretty’ I am or some such.. then I am the apple of his eye.. and he readily claims me as his first born…

This is why I have issues with men… it is an imprint on me…

I want it gone! Will it ever be gone!????????????????

It’s coming up to 1.30am here. I’ll reply to this in the morning. (I’m in the UK). I saved the reply in draft. Just glad that they don’t cut horses in america. I’m so silly :O)

We are healthy normal people. We cross paths with unhealthy abnormal people. Normal people don’t give us reason to research personality disorders*. Abnormal people do.

There exists sites run by sociopaths sharing their experiences. They publish their abnormality for all to see. This never fails to amuse me. I’m sure many mental health professionals hang around there gathering much insight.

* all kinds of disorders other than N, S, Ps.


style – this is my dad too:
‘Well, this is like my Dad is”. you are in ’favor’ as long as you ’behave’, ’agree’ and do as he wishes..’

i do not respect my dad that much anymore. i think not playing games with your dad is you respecting you. don’t think he is worthy of as much respect as you afford him.


one step.. yes it because I respect myself.. I respect human beings in general too much to play games and to humor…

I wish that I could be a bit like that though at times…

My friends tell me that they can count on me to tell them the truth..
Why talk, if it isn’t real and authentic??

I want to be with a man that is man enough to love me for all that I am…

One last thing, I’m always interested in the usernames we assign to ourselves on this forum. Descriptive, literal. Outlier is very much based on the definition:

a person who is excluded, or excludes himself, from some group

The group is the one the sociopath gathers round them. An affirmative reminder to remain distanced from the toxic group.


oh my sox need mending again. darn. snort!

Ox Drover

Dear Style,

And you hang around with and try to please a man who says he wishes you were dead WHY? Doesn’t matter that he donated theh sperm for you if he hates you that much, what do you get out of it? More abuse? It sure ain’t love.

I am off and gone from my egg donor, and was for 40+ years before my sperm donor died, don’t need these toxic people any more. So what if they donated my DNA it sure wasn’t out of love for me.

Send this to a friend