Sociopaths will manipulate anyone. Let me repeat that. Sociopaths will manipulate absolutely anyone, including mom, dad, brothers, sisters—anyone. One way that this happens is the sociopath gets his or her family—knowingly or not—to participate in the victimization of the target.
Lovefraud received an e-mail from Rod in Nebraska. Rod’s daughter had been targeted by a sociopath. In his e-mail, he wrote the following:
One thing that I do believe should be approached about a sociopath is his ability not only to control his victim, but also his family. The sociopath works his family to the extent that he manipulates his immediate family into believing that none of his problems in life are his fault and consequently the blame falls on the one he wooed into a relationship. In this manner he deliberately cons his family into enabling him in his behavior. Oh, poor guy, the world is against him, he has a seizure disorder and has the gout. Thus concluding my opinion that he controls his universe and his family’s.
Family ties
There are parents who continually bail out their sociopathic children—even as grown adults. There are family members who continually acquiesce to the sociopath’s demands, maybe just to maintain the peace.
Sometimes the families are just as clueless as everyone else. They don’t understand the sociopath’s behavior, but they feel family members are obligated take care of each other. They believe the sociopath when he or she blames the victim for whatever is going wrong.
Other times, the family members are sociopathic themselves—the risk of developing this personality disorder is genetic. So they see absolutely nothing wrong with predatory behavior.
So to escape, the victim must often stand up to not only the sociopath—which is difficult enough—but the sociopath’s entire family as well.
I only have energy to respond to one thing: ErinBrock:
Why are you giving your family power over you and continuing to live with your abuser? Why is your extended family involved with your psychiatric care? A therapist can not discuss YOUR case with anyone without consent?
I’m sorry this doesn’t make sense at all. I live with an elder narcissist, whose disorder (now I understand) is to a certain extent under control. It isn’t not until he dies the abuse is truly over. I protect them from 2 sociopaths. There’s talk of relocation, which makes sense for a number of reasons.
How am I “giving power” to my family precisely?
I don’t have extended family involved with any “psychiatric care”. Where did you get this from?
My therapist is known only to me. My family know nothing of my counselling. My counsellor doesnt know my family. Where did I write they are involved?!
edit ErinB I know what’s happened! My fault entirely. I will explain my earlier posts carefully later this evening. I know how you misunderstood my incoherent post.. – Outlier.
Dear One_step,
Another thing that is part of that INSANE STAGE of everything going wrong all at once is that we aren’t able to focus enough to prioritize which thing to focus on. So we focus on “the fact our shoes don’t match color” when we should be focusing on “RUNNING from the danger.” Then when we get our shoes the same color, they don’t match our dress, and we focus on that, and when that is fixed,. we…… you get the idea. We are focusing on the TRIVIAL things, and maybe blaming HIM because he took the suitcase that took our matching shoes and dress, when the point is that we should RUN NAKED IF WE HAVE TO, RUNNNNNNN!!!!
I resisted leaving my home for months—-I tried to resort to the law and truth….I should have RUN.
I resisted abandoning that cell phone account he had control of because I’d had that number for 10 years…I eventually abandoned it anyway.
I resisted going to the doctor for two months as I got more and more sick…”blaming it on stress” until I nearly died. I was focusing on the cell phone bill, didn’t have time to go to the doctor. Then had to spend months recovering.
And on and on and on, focusing on all kinds of minor, unimportant things while the world blew apart around me.
The important part was my LIFE, not the cell number I used or where I lived or what happened to my house or my possessions.
I also focused on ways to try to convince my egg donor of the truth, to convince and save my son C….all futile things. I should have quit worrying about SAVING SOMEONE ELSE and focused on SAVING MY OWN LIFE.
Now, my attitude is, if I have an hour in which to prepare to run, I can get out of here with the RV and my dogs and what is already loaded on to the RV, AND NEVER LOOK BACK, if I don’t have the hour, I will leave with what I am WEARING and NOTHING else, and NEVER look back.
I have learned to prioritize what is really important against what is not the least bit important.
Here are some things I think about as being important or not:
Revenge—not important, takes up too much trouble to plan and implement. Besides, the Bible says that “vengence is mine saith the Lord” so I can let Him take care of that.
ALL my STUFF: This can be separated into catagories of Monetarily valuable, useful, sentimental and decorative.
The last two catagories are totally expendable, you can live without them entirely and not really have a problem without them. Useful stuff in some measure is necessary but can be replaced–dishes, blankets, car, etc. so you can leave them behind if you have to and replace them with the value of monetarily valuable items, which are what I protect the most as they are generally kept in a bank or safe where they can be grabbed or gotten to later and consists of money, jewelry, bonds stocks etc. that can be traded for USEFUL stuff which is all we really need.
Plus, I am willing to “down size” in the amount and quality of “useful stuff” if I have to. That may mean living in a DV shelter instead of my 4 bedroom home, or two sets of clothing from the Goodwill instead of the clothing I have (which is still mostly from goodwill, but I am a thrifty shopper!) and a $1000 car instead of the $5,000 one(s) I drive, but the point is that getting out with the important things—our lives and the lives of our kids is ***THE*** MOST IMPORTANT THING.
And we will not see the most important thing when we are distracted by emotional CHAOS and TURMOIL and focvusing on the 110 “little things” which keep us from seeing the ONE big thing. We literally cannot see the FOREST for lthe TREES being in the way!
ONLY NOW am I able to disengage from the things that are NOT importasnt and to put down the chaos in my mind and concentrate on the priority of taking care of me.
One, I haven’t said much about it, because you haven’t asked me but I am going to hazard a suggestion, that you QUIT thinking about OUTING your psychopath and REALLY go NO CONTACT—and that means emotionally and physicalloy and informationally NC and FOCUS ON YOURSELF and the problems that YOU have that need to be worked on. I think as long as you are using your energy (whch is a finite thing) to out her, you are using your resources to “change shoes” when you need to be RUNNING! You can Boink me if this advice offends you, but you know it is given from the heart! (((Hugs)))))
OxDrover,
As always, your posts are helpful (I read your most recent one). I had an upsetting day yesterday due to my h-spath dropping a bomb on me, rattling me. Last week, his youngest brother and wife (who are happily married and open to discussing the family dynamics) dropped by my house unannounced (in an effort to find the spath – they couldn’t locate him at his rental house) so we spent time talking, finding out that what I have figured out on my own is on target. History is repeating itself, the h-spath is like his father (in how he treats the wife) and I am living out my mother-in-law’s history. Unlike my mother-in-law, I am not staying with the crazy one, not liking his character at all. I am sick of being in this nightmare. Out of all the siblings, he seems to be the only one who is a spath. I found out that these relatives knew of misdeeds (committed by the h-spath) before I married him, upsetting me. I plainly said, “I wish someone would have warned me about him because I wouldn’t have married him, sparing me a lot of pain” to which my sister-in-law (with a smile on her face) said, “but you would have wanted to fix him.” I disagree. If I knew of some of the transgressions, I would have thought twice about getting too close to him. Live and learn, I suppose. I guess they’re figuring out more-and-more about him themselves. It’s all too depressing, literally.
Derar Bluejay,
Many times good people who know bad things about our Ps don’t warn us, and sometimes they do warn us and We don’t listen. It is a toss up but frankly doesn’t matter NOW. It is the past. I do advise you though unless these relatives are TOTALLY NC with your X be careful what you say to them as many times they will “accidently” or on purpose TELL HIM and pith him off.
I LEARNED THE HARD WAY never to tell ANYONE anything that could bite me in the ass—IT ALWAYS DID no matter how much I thought these people were on my side or saw the truth.
It is better to LISTEN to these people rather than TALK and sometimes they are actually sent as trojan horses to feel you out and get information for the P. While they are in your presence they may pretend to understand what he did to you.
I hope I haven’t burst your bubble, but WATCH out for their family and friends until it is ALL OVER but even then be cautious. It’s possible they are up front and honest with you, but sometimes “blood relatives” can do you in. Ask Witsend, and EB, and others here who have had my same experience.
Sometimes even YOUR relatives can be on their sides,, so CAREFUL! ((((hugs))))
{{{{{Bluejay}}}}} Please, dear heart – if someone had “told” you about the spath, would you have taken their warnings seriously, or would you have blown them off as someone who was trying to interfere?
OxD has it spot-on. Listen. Listen even when the words are screaming to get out. Sometimes, they’re genuinely concerned, and other times, some of these people are, indeed, in the web of deciet, as well.
Brightest blessings, Bluejay.
My Spath’s mother warned me. His sister-in-law warned me. His best friend warned me. And his Ex warned me. I wrote them all off. If I had heard from them in the first couple of months, I would have listened… but I didn’t meet any of them until 9 months and a divorce after he had spun his web of lies. By then, it was too late.
Because of that, I don’t take it too hard that those I watch setting themselves up for a fall of one kind or another by trusting him, are as angry as I was at them, when I try to warn them.
I did go back after I found out about hidden girlfriend #4, and call his ex to thank her for TRYING to warn me, even if I wouldn’t listen. I don’t really expect that from any of the woman I have warned. Most just take his lies of WHY they have to break up at face value, and move on. Unfortunately for me, some of the breakups where put down to my meddling… though I supose I should be proud of it, if it were only true!
Still, I do not expect to EVER get a THANK YOU, like I gave to his ex. Most people are NOT like me. Most people would NOT have held on for almost 2 yrs after I knew it was over. Most poeple wouldn’t spend another 2 yrs of their life, looking for the TRUTH, that belonged where his lies had been placed. Most people, are not me… and so most people would never even think to thank me for putting my neck on the line to warn them.
Pearls before swine, and there was I time I WAS that thick headed pig, refusing to listen to those around me instead of his lies…. and refusing to listen to my own, still small voice.
Sherry winter, darlin, I didn’t listen the times I WAS warned! So if I can reasonably warn someone I will, but don’t really expect them to listen to me about it and that is okay. I’m not going to pound my head into the wall or act crazy—if people want or are able to learn from what I saw great, if not, great too. I did the best I could.
It is just like here on LF if you give someone advice, and they keep replying, “You’re right, except I can’t because…” and then they ask for more advice and everyone tells them something and they keep comingn back with “yes, but I can’t because….x, y, or z” you eventually realize that they have no intention at THIS TIME of taking any advice about DOING something about their situation. But, maybe at some time they WILL when THEY get ready to do it.
Sort of like dealing with a person who is into drugs or alcohol, but can “stop any time I want to” but shows up time after time drunk, but you know you are wasting your breath when you tell them to go to AA or quit drinking, because they are going to find some4 EXCUSE not to go to AA or therapy or rehab or to stop drinking…but they sure want to tell you all about what a hard life they have—so eventually you quit responding to them or giving advice because you know they aren’t going to DO anything productive toward fixing their problems. Maybe some time later they will, but in the meantime, you can save your breath and not be upset because we are NOT responsible for others, they are responsible for themselves….as much as we would like to see someone stop self-destructive behavior, until THEY recognize that their behavior is self destructive, unhealthy, etc. all our warnings or teachings or advice is wasted.
The old deal about trying to teach a pig to sing, it “Pithes off the pig and frustrates you!” LOL (((Hugs))))
I registered over a year ago, and read your posts each week, not even sure If I ever introduced myself (and had to reset my password, this evening because I forgot the thing). I have two sociopathic exes, and they were (still are) friends, I had no clue until I finally hired a PI to confirm, many moons ago 🙂 I am totally NC with both, and when the court forces me to “write” or “say” something, it is very short and to the point and go on with my day.
Ox, I just read your post on “they lie” …yes. When either of my spaths starts to move his lips, I say over and over to myself, “Liar.”
On the “why wasn’t I warned” posts. First, I don’t warn anyone about my spaths, not worth it for me (retaliation is high with a spath); second, would a new woman really listen to bad words about the charming prince? Not a chance.
My family *adores* both spaths who were stealth in how they won over my family with the lies (about me) and their tears (fear of being found out).
Oxy,
What you said here in this post, feels like me. You all have given me advice and I offer a lot of “buts”. I have the ball rolling in regards to filing divorce and now am prepared to leave if he continues to dig in. Maybe I’m a bit narcissistic, relating everything to my situation. Sorry. Sorry.
I truely wish you were right here and I could talk with you and understand why I have so many ‘but’s’. I just read your post about focusing on matching shoes and clothes. Like putting your focus on the things we can control so we don’t have to think about the rest.
Every single f**ing day is a challenge. But I have faith it will get better. It’s got to. I think I would take in someone who is needy but it’s me who is needy.
Hopeforjoy,
Every day can be a challenge! And the sooner you are able to leave, the sooner you can be safe. Being in a safe place is when you can begin the healing process.
The getting better, comes with feeling safe, and being in a safe (sane) environment.
As long as you are under the same roof or have contact, he will continue to “dig in.”
Does this make sense?