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By | April 25, 2011 112 Comments

Sociopaths Going Backwards

Sociopaths rarely go forward with their lives with reliable, sustainable momentum; at best, they may zig-zag for a while with the good (and bad) luck of a gambler; or go sidways for a while, “seeming” to hold it together.

But eventually, the sociopath tends to go backwards. He is much like the person on a high-speed treadmill who, no mattter how hard he or she walks or runs, finds himself, sooner or later, drifting off the end of the machine.

His disordered lack of empathy, detachment from others, detachment from an emotional connection to the world that keeps the rest of us on fairly solid ground, giving us at least a chance to hit solid ground, and hit it running—the sociopath is missing this connection, and thus makes no consistent, sturdy contact with solid ground; his traction, ultimately, is tenuous and illusory.

The sociopath may “look” like he’s making progress (especially if progress is defined as his profiting, in some fashion, from his disrespect or abuse of others’ trust and vulnerability); in the end, however, his progress will be as superficial and unreliable as he is—finally, certainly in the vast majority of cases, he just makes messes of his own and others’ lives.

For this reason I don’t regard sociopaths—even so-called really sharp, predatory sociopaths—as generally very “smart” individuals. Most of them, as I’ve written elsewhere, and stress here again, are just “mess makers.”

Many end up in jail, and those who don’t, when they aren’t sowing havoc, are usually courting disaster and, at some point or other, almost always finding it.

Even the smoothest, most effectively calculating sociopaths, even allowing for those who are never apprehended–even these sociopaths lack the capacities that make for a life worth counting: the capacity, for instance, to love; give from the heart; sacrifice for others; and be counted-on in “crunch time” (which is to say, during times of real personal inconvenience).

The sociopathic individual doesn’t genuinely relish these experiences, although he may, as we know, mimic them superficially (and sometimes convincingly); but he doesn’t derive the pleasure to be experienced from a genuine investment in them.

His view of the world is not unlike the immature child’s who, on halloween night, approaching a bowl of candy left on a stoop, where the code of integrity is implicit (take one or two candy bars), instead grabs a fistful of candy, stuffing his pillow case with it.

The child then feels a bit giddy over his caper, heedless that, in the process of enriching himself, he has selfishly deprived other children of candy and, at the same time, violated the homeowner who risked trusting in his basic sense of fairness and respect.

It’s possible that this child on halloween may make his “grab” in a more impulsive, less calculating, fashion; or, he may have plotted his “grab,” and then executed it from house to house, even before putting his “costume” on at home, prior to hitting the streets.

In either case, take his mentality and now watch it never evolve, even as the boy grows into a man, and there you have it—an adult who thinks, and acts, like a sociopath”¦that is, a sociopath.

The forms of corruption and violation his personality can later express are many, but the underlying mentality is the sociopath’s. And it dooms him, in the end, to a troubled, troubling and unfulfilled life.

(This article is copyrighted (c) 2011 by Steve Becker, LCSW. My use of male gender pronouns is strictly for convenience’s sake and not to suggest that females aren’t capable of the behaviors discussed.)


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wisergirl

They are totally predictable, totally boring and UNoriginal. Incapable of original ANYthing. All is a copy of what they have seen others act or do. Yes, very much like a super spoiled 5 yr old, tearing thru other peoples lives and using them as a means to an end. And yes, there end is pretty predictable, just like them.
Well written.:)

moveingon

I have posted before and been through numerous court hearings when the spath had to pay what he owes for CM I was enforcing through bailiffs, garnishing etc, he took me to court to vary and lost and owes £60k. Had to write a cheque out to me in court ..thick he is ..but even the spath has surpassed my expectations.

After 5 years of no contact with either of his children, not even a birthday card, I was a little surprised when I got an email on Thursday wishing me and his children a happy Easter and he ‘needs to talk to his daughter’. The spath went on ‘I am glad that they have been at boarding school to give them stability’. He has done everything he could by not paying his 50% share of school fees or CM for 2 years to have them kicked out!!

The spath continued, I paid CM this month early (how kind of it) to stop you making fabricated claims to court …no I have a court order, and I enforced with bailiffs!! Then the spath drivels on about himself ..like anyone cares!!

After 5 years of never seeing either child he wants contact with my 18 year old daughter ‘to discuss her needs’!

Well when we all stopped laughing …when does a spath stop? He actually thinks in his deluded head that my daughter wants any contact with him, she was in tears when her school threatened to not let her back. What don’t these spaths get he has not paid a penny in 2 years!!

Talk about going backward, do they honestly think they can just wipe all the hurt away?? It is so sick my family are appalled, but we know what it is the OW/current wife has clearly kicked him out.

I will never understand their complete lack of anything, let alone empathy ..sick, sick, sick! Neither of my children want to have any contact with this to**er again. Back to the sweetie jar, and well I will just pick up where I left off, no one will notice!!

My response (no contact for 5 years so I don’t care), ‘if you contact us ever again we will go the police, go away and stay away, your email is harassment and of no interest’. I got one back of course ‘you have alienated my children, blah blah, (everything is my fault of course), I am living in a flat, (my fault, again) blah, blah blah’. I just resent the same email back!!

Do they ever just get it, no one cares about them, certainly not family courts, why can’t they just feck off??? I know about the control thing, all the traits but after 5 years, what does it expect ..a party ‘daddy is back’, he has had me arrested 14 times even for my own car, and my son he tried to have arrested when he was 11, now 16. There clearly is a switch, memory eraser ..absolutely amazing and they are of course as told by the spath ‘he is within his rights’! Even though my daughter is 18, he called her ‘nearly an actual adult’, 3 times, what is nearly an actual adult???

This does of course coincide with my daughter taking her A levels to get into Oxford and my son doing his GSCEs ..so jealousy is the main part, methinks. Can’t have my children doing well ..that’s not the plan, everyone has to be as miserable as I am!!

Rant over ..apologies to all!!

Ox Drover

Dear Movingon,

Of course they think they can just step back in and that you will throw them a “daddy’s home” party and everything will be lovely. LOL ROTFLMAO

Steve, you are absolutely right….even if they get filthy rich (my P sperm donor did finally, making the Forbes 400 a few years before the BILLIONAIRES took over) but all his money never bought him a single FRIEND….and the ONLY person at his funeral that was not some kind of business acquaintence was his youngest son who is I think much like him and idolized P sperm donor. Seven wives and beat every one of them, cheated on them, 4 kids, 3 who were NC with him, and as far as I know, never one friend…just victims and pre-victims….but the main thing was he never got it that money didn’t buy class, couth, respectability, or admiration.

He wanted others to envy him, so continually postured on how smart he was (even said in print in one interview that he was THE smartest man in the world and he believed it) and thought that kind of thing would make people admire and envy him.

But since he looked down on everyone else in the world as “weak” and “worthless” their admiration (even if they had admired him) would have been tainted as coming from someone who was worthless….so it was a “catch 22”—no way for him to ever be satisfied or content.

A life time without one friend….that’s pretty sad. Everyone that tried to love him, he turned into a victim. What a hollow life.

one/joy_step_at_a_time

movingon – probably don’t have to tell you this, but be careful, he’s planning something.

and that magic eraser? it doesn’t exist, because really, he “didn’t really do anything to you to begin with” did he? they ARE bonkers. there is no getting our heads around their actions, because we are using OUR brains and they are not the same as THEIRS.

be careful….he’s phishing for something.

and congratulations for 5 years well spent without the ***ker.

ErinBrock

Steve;
Thank you for this article. I enjoy your writings.
I have held faith in this for the past 5 years. I KNOW that his end will be ugly, and the road getting to his end will be wrought with unhappiness and continued cons.
This is not fulfillment, hence happiness will never be.

We….on the other hand, can turn the pain around and live out life to the fullest.

moveingon

Wisegirl/Steve and Oxy,

They do copy everything people do. My spath had a problem paying any tax whatsoever, he owed £144k as discovered in the divorce when I stopped doing anything for him, he went mad!! Anyway I was warned by barrister best thing get him married to someone else, and quickly.

So a dear friend of mine, who he was manipulating for info told him I was engaged (untrue) but he got engaged to a woman off friends reunited dot com. Then things were not progressing so he was told I had got remarried, he was married within a month.

Phew, no her majesties revenue and customs (IRS in US) after me any more, her problem!! The spath was most upset in court when he found out I was not actually remarried, engaged or even living with anyone! As the judge pointed out to spath, ‘most people get married for love, not to get back at their ex partners’, the spath stated ‘she has acted fraudulently’! They are an unbelievable, weird deviant of the human species!

Nothing surprises me any more ..lovely weather in the UK this Easter and more to come, hope everything is dandy where you are!

moveingon

Hi Onejoy, I know, my family are worried. If as we suspect the ‘current wife’ as he calls her (how respectful) has kicked him out, and all the other tales of woe and pity, he’ll be back!!

My father put up CCTV outside my house as I live in the middle of nowhere (well UK size, middle of nowhere), farms around, some near neighbours.

I have no doubt he is ‘up to something’, my son goes back to school tomorrow, (so he misses kate and william ..he is gutted ..not!), my daughter another week before she goes back to her boarding school, she is what the spath thinks is the chink in the armour. My lovely Clara though is not weak, she knows what he is and if anything despises him more than any of us.

Thank you for your concern, I am ever watchful, how he found out my work email account I don’t know but he is now blocked, on every email account, mobile phone any of us possess. One more contact and I will report him, only takes 2 in the UK to be arrested for harassment and I know where he works!

Thank you again!

lesson learned

Steven,

Great article (as usual)

And nothing is grieving my heart more right now than watching my son act out what looks to be his future in spathdom. Each incident of acting out, is worse than the last. It’s removing all doubt.

What a hell of a thought.

LL

Ox Drover

Dear Movingon,

CONGRATULATIONS ON OUT SMARTING HIM!!!!! That was a STROKE OF GENIUS to get him to get married right away! LOL Yea!!!!! for the good guys!!!! S-paths 0–Good guys a BIG ONE!!!!!

My non-P sons both TOTALLY GET IT about my P son, and also about my enabling-punishing egg donor, and if anything they both resent her more than I do.

I informed son C by e mail that she had inquired about him when she lured me into sending someone to pick up the portrait drawing of my husband, and he sent her off an e mail telling her that I had told him that She INQUIRED ABOUT IF HE WAS STILL LIVING WITH ME back here on the farm, and telling her in NO uncertain terms that WHERE HE LIVED WAS NONE OF HER BUSINESS and that as long as she was sending money and support to the man who sent someone to try to kill his mother and him, that he wanted nothing to do with her because she was putting our lives at greater risk. He sent me a copy of the e mail and he even addressed her as “Mrs. Donor” rather than “grandma”—-I commented that his e mail sounded “rather harsh, don’t you think?” He replied, “it isn’t as harsh as I feel.”

They never give up once they feel like they “own” us or have some kind of right to control us, or seeking for revenge if we don’t allow them to control us. Some how they feel entitled to control or punish.

skylar

There are two things I’ve noticed about sociopaths that I have a hard time wrapping my brain around. And I think it’s these two things that confuse the majority of people because nobody can imagine thinking this way.

One thing is the way that they will actually EMBRACE POVERTY. Everybody wants money, right? Not spaths, they like to take it from others but they don’t necessarily like to keep it. My exP desires to be considered poor by other people because his main weapon is the pity ploy. First he bonds with you by being so good and kind, then, he “falls on hard times” and needs your help. How can you turn him down? It’s the reason so many spaths live in poverty – BECAUSE THEY WANT TO. They WANT to collect welfare even if it’s more trouble than working. They get so MUCH PLEASURE out of having others do things for them and give them things that it actually makes it worthwhile to be poor. Of course my spath could sell drugs at any time and always had cash, but he kept it hidden. I didn’t find out until I told him I was flat broke and could give him no more money. Then suddenly wads of cash come out of his pocket. At one point, he had the money to fix his car tranmission but he refused to fix it until Steve (the millionaire) gave him the $300 to buy it. Poverty and need is part of their facade because it allows them to manipulate tenderhearted empaths (their favorite food).

The other thing that continues to confound me is how they can stab each other in the back (sometimes literally) and continue to associate with each other as if nothing happened. So bizarre. They even expect us to behave that way. Except with us, they MIGHT give a phony apology, or they might leave for a while and hope we forget. But in their mind, “the past does not exist”. This is a huge RED FLAG. People have often described the way a spath blows up in rage for about 15 minutes and then 5 minutes later, acts like nothing happened. Meanwhile, we are still shaken to the core over the explosive event. And they also will attempt to destroy a person who offends them one time, even if that person has been their most loyal friend and given them everything for decades. None of that matters. If you ask them about it they say, “the past does not exist”. or WTF? It seems to be related to the way they perceive time. It’s not that they live in the now, because they do carry grudges and plan their cons long term. But if you bring up their bad behaviors they say, “that was in the past, we’re not going to talk about it now, why do you have to always bring up the past?” Ummm… maybe because they never apologized and they’ll probably do it again?

These 2 things are the most difficult for me to keep at the forefront when dealing with spaths because nobody normal thinks this way. It’s spathalogical!

moveingon

Hi Oxy

I have read your posts about you P son and enabling mother, I cannot begin to understand how you coped, I find that difficult as I adore my son and daughter, they are my world! Now they are 16 and 18 and have had time to heal they are quite open about the hurt the spath has caused. It was actually my daughter who first thought he was probably a sociopath ..how astute she is. None of my family would believe a word out of his mouth, when we say it is a to**ser we mean it! He is however a very vindictive and dangerous person and we don’t underestimate how far the spath would go.

Perhaps he does think he owns us, but he doesn’t, never did, and never will we. He will be dead one day, and no one will care! People care about you, post you back all the time, from across the world, how great is that, you everyday helping and advising people like me!

bluejay

Steve,

I find this whole mental illness distressing, not really wanting any person to go through life with it, afflicted with it. Yes, I am angry at all the messes that the spath has created – year-in-and-year-out, there is always a boatload of trouble. I have called him every name in the book and I feel guilty afterwards for the things I’ve said, mostly being unable to be civil toward the spath. Like any victim, I’ve had psychological damage, financial damage, etc. I’ll be fortunate if I can ever fully recover, sometimes feeling overwhelmed, hopeless. Sociopaths make living more stressful than it has to be (and that’s a fact). In the end, I wish that I had never met him or married him – the problems that I’ve had wouldn’t exist.

Ox Drover

Thank you movingon,

Bluejay, yes, I agree that sociopaths make MESSES and are probably responsible for 99.9% of all the “bad things” on earth if you think about it…crime, rape, murder, wars, child abuse, just name the human to human evil and the psychopaths are at the bottom of it. If we could eliminate the people who actually QUALIFY as a “30” on the Psychopath Check list-revised, we would do away with the majority of violence and crime in the world. Now wouldn’t that be wonderful?

“Mental illness”???? No, BlueJay it is not an Illness in which they have no control or no choice, it is a DISORDER in which though they may have a genetic tendency to be callous, they still know right from wrong, they just CHOOSE to not give a big rat’s behind for the welfare of others.

lesson learned

Sky,

On the contrary, my ex spath was polar opposite. Beautiful home in the country, really nice car, really nice clothes, was an obsessive compulsive shopper….he LOVED THE PRESENTATION OF AFFLUENCE! Clean and sharp as a fricking whistle!

He is HIGHLY in debt, so this is where I would agree with you. He wants to KEEP what he has and not lose it, so I could easily see him playing the pity play BIG TIME on new gf about how indebt he is due to his divorce, he’s going to lose his house (I heard the story) and blah blah blah….but he’ll wait till she’s secured then pounce on it.

He HATED any idea that anyone thought of him as poor. Always keeping up with the Jones’s.

LL

skylar

LL,
yes, I thought about that too. My spath BIL was always poor until he married my sister and then suddenly began to display wealth, but it was all bought on credit WITH HER CREDIT. Now my spath sister, who guarded every dime with her life and had a nice cushion of savings, is hundreds of thousands in debt WITH HIM. She used to do the pity ploy and tell people she was poor, so she never had to pay for anything. Also, she lived with my parents until she was over 30 years old because she didn’t want to be on her own and didn’t want to pay rent. Then the trojan horse spath landed with his bankrupt ass on her nest egg. He knew about her nest egg because of my spath. Together, they have 2 crappy little homes, 2 SUVs, and a big boat. But they OWN nothing, because it’s all debt. The only thing he has is his pension. Which I’m pretty sure that when he dumps her, she won’t be able to touch it.

Spath BIL says he doesn’t want to die owning any wealth for others to inherit. He says he is determined to spend every penny he earns on himself. How’s that for spathsticity? His selfishness knows no bounds.

superkid10

SKYLAR

I think you’re right, they definitely have something about money. My spath was an executive – dressed to kill – ohmygod you never saw anybody dress so well at work – somehow 75% of what he wore to work came off of ebay – designer suits, etc. He’d buy a $1000 suit for $25 by careful shopping.

At home, he had like 3 shirts and 2 pants and 2 socks. I kid you not. He refused to buy anything. He had hardly anything, and wore it until it fell to shreds. His personal goal was to own less than 100 objects. He created a list and went over it and over it all the time, if something new came in, something left (on ebay). It was totally OCD.

It was all about the presentation or illusion of wealth and of fitting in, and socking it away.

lesson learned

Sky,

“His selfishness knows no bounds”

That is so true, isn’t it?

LL

superkid10

Steve

I love everything you write. Seriously. Thank you for donating your time to this forum.

I sure would like to know that these guys aren’t just “sliding backwards” but that they are really, truly, losing out.

For all the pain, loss of money, heartache, etc. that they cause, do they suffer **at least equal*** to the pain they cause.

Superkid

Ana

Skkylar,
That describes the woman spath I had the run in with. The poverty ploy, welfare, pooor me I’ve had a hard life. Ugh. All so she can get YOUR money. The thing is she LOOKS like she’s had a hard life. Worn out drunk kind of look. She looks like Prof. Snipe of Harry Potter!

She once told me a freind of hers got her a really good job with benefits etc. at Amtrack. He also got her his old apt. when he moved out. What did she do? She sued Amtrack with a back injury and got evicted (again) from the apt. So she basically trashed his name and get this, she doesn’t understand why he doesn’t speak to her anymore. I laughed…

Hopeforjoy

Steve,

I hope these disordered social preditors not only slide backwards but they get what’s coming to them. All the pain they cause to their children, spouses, friends, etc.

When I see the pain my daughter feels (her face contorts with all sorts of emotions), when her father tries to contact her, I hope he slides waayyyy backward, off a cliff!!!!

bluejay

Ox Drover,

I just got back from eating dinner out with two of my kids, my oldest son and my daughter – it was nice. Okay, so sociopathy is a mental disorder, not a mental illness? I realize that spaths know what they’re doing, doing the unthinkable time and time again (always bending the rules) – no big deal to them. I still tend to think that the spaths are controlled by the disorder, not the other way around, being open to correction about this viewpoint, but from what I’ve experienced, the spath acts according to they way he is programmed, his brain being messed up.

Annie

Hmmm. Interesting reading this article after the comments on the “LF Crash” article.

Steve, I think your argument holds water when it comes to the ‘personal con’ type of sociopath. But, as much as I’d like to believe what you say is true, I’m not convinced when it comes to the corporate psychopath.

For every Bernie Madoff, Kenneth Lay, Jeffrey Skilling, etc… that gets caught and pays for their crimes there are thousands, if not millions, of others who go on to lead lives of luxury and indulgence until the day they die – usually laughing at the suckers they conned. Who can forget the commodities traders (California electrical company – forget the name) who joked about stealing from grandmothers and orphans and leaving them in the dark? Sure, markets crashed, but who got hit hardest? Not the financial services executives, that’s for sure.

Harry Markopolous tried to report Bernie Madoff repeatedly, for 10 years or so. He had absolute mathematical proof of wrong-doing and presented it to the SEC, etc… No-one ‘listened’ to Markopolous (they probably wrote him off as a conspiracy nut), but not a single major financial instituation got hit because they knew it was a con but didn’t say anything to anyone else.

Bernie Madoff’s wife is still blindingly loyal to him – despite the suicide of her own son. How many of the decent people here on LF had that much support through our own hard-times?

bluejay

skylar,

I am glad that you talked a bit about spaths and money – they don’t mind being poor. What floors me is how the spath doesn’t understand the workings of money, period. He has no savings, not planning for the future – he doesn’t comprehend how to manage a bank account. He lives on the edge, obviously. There are business people (the spath is self-employed) who won’t do business with him (due to bounced checks). It’s my impression that he doesn’t fully grasp why (which I find mystifying) these business people have cut ties with him. I would love it if someone would write an article about spaths and money. The spath’s father (who I believe was a spath too) was just like him when it came to money, not knowing how to manage finances. The way some spaths operate is very irritating, maddening.

Annie

Oxy,
I’m not sure how your father felt about his life towards the end. But this thread has me thinking: I’ve worked with a fair number of psychopaths (who I didn’t recognize when I was working with them), and some of them even hit the news in a really scandalous way. But the biggest, slimiest ones always managed to skate off with a fair degree of public support and sympathy and some poor ‘lesser’ predator or two paid the price (as in they were all over the national news for months and months as the public scapegoat).

I hate to be a downer here, but that is my honest impression after working with quite a few corporate predators.

And when I look back on what I knew of them personally, and then see the same behavioural hallmarks displayed in the press years later, the overwhelming impression I get is that they’ve had *fun*. That, in their terms, they consider their lives successful. That, in their own way, they feel exquisitely *happy* that they succeeded in ‘winning’ over against those of us they considered (as you said earlier) “weak and worthless”. The impression I get is that they feel satisfied, the same kind of way the Grinch felt satisfied after he’d stolen all the Whoville Christmas stuff, complete with that sickly self-satisfied smile. They could care less about whether or not they were loved or well-regarded. That’s our values, not theirs. I think there are more than a few that die, in their own way of thinking, happy. Or at least content.

Again, sorry to be a downer here.

Ox Drover

Annie, I can’t argue with you there….their idea of “success” is not ours….my own P son, Patrick, even though he has been in prison since he was 17 except for a few months out between crimes, total less than a year…still SEES HIMSELF AS A SUCCESS. Here he is a criminal, a convict, has never had a legitimate adult job, never had his own apartment or house, been in prison 99.9% of his adult life, and THINKS HE IS A SUCCESS?????? WTF?????

Doesn’t make sense to me, but it is the way he thinks.

I am sure that my P sperm donor considered himself a success….because he thought that people envied him, wanted to be him, thought he was superior to them, appreciated what a great intellect he was–when in fact, anyone with any class at all looked down their nose at how crude and rude and crass he was.

He actually didn’t realize how people despised him—and if for some reason he knew someone didn’t like him, he devalued them to where “they didn’t matter”—the only thing I do know is that HE HATED ME WITH A PASSION BEYOND BELIEF because I stood up to him, and one other man that I know of he hated and maligned in print, a great man who is recognized the world over not only for his professional accomplishments but for his intellect and his great spirit and heart….the polar opposite of my P- sperm donor. So, to be hated by him was an honor as far as I am concerned.

But it is still sad that any human being, or what passes for one, could live and die so deluded.

The Bible Talks about casting our pearls before swine, and when we “throw pearls of love” at these people, when we offer them kindness and compassion, they have no appreciation for these “pearls” of infinite value, and as the Bible says, they “turn and rend us.”

Denise Guiney

Their investment plan, get paid by the government and spend this all on gambling. It might work!Then play poor with a collection of girlfriends for the next two weeks, and make sure you get plenty of new phone numbers if you go out. You might manage to marry a rich woman or get one pregnant so she feels obliged to feed you. Repeat this recipe every two weeks. Throw any failed dishes away and try a again.

behind_blue_eyes

“Annie says:

Hmmm. Interesting reading this article after the comments on the “LF Crash” article.

Steve, I think your argument holds water when it comes to the ’personal con’ type of sociopath. But, as much as I’d like to believe what you say is true, I’m not convinced when it comes to the corporate psychopath.

For every Bernie Madoff, Kenneth Lay, Jeffrey Skilling, etc” that gets caught and pays for their crimes there are thousands, if not millions, of others who go on to lead lives of luxury and indulgence until the day they die ”“ usually laughing at the suckers they conned. Who can forget the commodities traders (California electrical company ”“ forget the name) who joked about stealing from grandmothers and orphans and leaving them in the dark? Sure, markets crashed, but who got hit hardest? Not the financial services executives, that’s for sure.”

Having been first-hand victimized by Wall Street Psychopaths, I could not agree more.

Regarding my x-spath, Steve’s article seems accurate. My counselor would not let me talk much about the x-spath except in a couple of sessions after the drama. One of the few things I remember my counselor saying was in regards to my x-spath leaving a good white-collar career in something he had gone to University for to become a Flight Attendant.

Talk about taking a step backwards and what career offers the prospect of emotional detachment better than Flight Attendant?

It was Enron. Lay’s wife started a second hand store for the fabulous items they had acquired and received enormous sympathy.

Experience teaches spaths they can rewrite history. They do it because it works. I married a spath and I’ve worked with one. The only successful strategy for me was to tell them I knew what they were, naming the characteristics, and then block emails. The problem is not solved though because the predator moves on, looking for other prey. I want them identified and their names publicized. Tattooing across the forehead would also be useful.

newlife08

Great Article, STEVE……as always.

I so appreciate the fact that you know this disorder so very well and always bring us to thinking on a level above where our emotions often take us.

The zig-zag is a great way to express the many directions he goes in without any real progress or resolution. Always another plan, another proposal and yet – nothing is ever genuine or followed through.

Ever plotting, planning my demise – gathering what he thinks he can use against me.

My poor son – he is targeted by his father to support much of his emotional needs. And son is so tender and susceptible. But he is teaching him to lie to avoid consequence, con his way into what he wants – the more time spent with his dad the longer it takes my son to de-program.

This man is a fake, controlling, manipulative – knows how to get what he wants. But there is no core , no soul, no worry about the lawsuits and bill collectors. No concern for what he does not do for our children. I don’t think he truly feels love, or sacrifice or pushing yourself to the brink to do what is good for our kids. Empty, empty soul – I look at him and feel sick – sometimes I still cry . If only the “fake ” were the “real ” man – life , our 3 lives, would not be so compromised.

Michael

Karma, karma, KARMA!!! Since leaving her, she’s got nothing out of the divorce(8 month marriage) filed bankruptcy for ~176K (not including her mortgage) and now has a long running foreclosure(since 9/2007) breathing down her neck. As far as I can tell the bank has received the property but her name is still on the property appraiser site. One of these days it won’t be there.

Loosing..hope

I agree with the posting at the very top…it is kind of sad that my sociopath W is a “lost soul” at the age of 62 he is still messing around with 20 year old “little girls” and going to strip clubs..he has been divorced twice, had three kids with three different other women (all while married) me being one of them…the sad fact is that my 8 year old is the one now who suffers tremedously as well as I do watching what W does to her. My daughter sees all the abuse: alcohol, drugs, swearing and yelling, daily/weekly women, parties, medication not given and recklessness behaviors….W has no connections with any of his children or gf’s or ANYONE for that matter…like we all know…we are all just “objects” in his life to play with..after 9 years of dealing with W I am severely depressed, ridden with anxiety, overweight, alone and have pretty much lost hope…I have lost friends, family, my job and have not had a b/f in four years for fear of bringing any more drama to my child…after all of the daily drama and harrasment….and…after four times of being “sued for custody” (which there was judgements and things W was ordered to do but of course he ignored them) he is after me once again…I had “the nerve” to report him for the back child support of $48K that he owes me and now he is out for blood…of course, I am here unemployed with no money left over to hire an attorney for another time and soooo extremely exhausted…my child is abused by W verbally and is scared of him but for some crazy reason still wants to keep going for weekend vists (probably for the “fancy” million dollar life style) as I sit at home going broke W has not paid taxes, claims he lost all of his millions, claimd bankruptcy and is now living large with no bills or any cares in the world….on paper he shows he is broke so he doesnt have to pay the x-wives or x-g/f so it all works out well for W…but does it? He spends his days probably exhausted after all the lies he told for the day, all the decents he has preformed, empty sex he has has and alcohol to cover up the fact that he is an empty lost soul at the end of the night. Is there any hope for me?

Loosing..hope

newlife08….i feel the same way about my spath…when he comes to the house to get my daughter I can’t look at him anylonger…he makes me beg for any money that I need for medication, c/s school lunches, etc. knowing that I “need” him for money since I am not working….it is his sick game he plays for control…he is a master manipulator and everyone thinks he is this wonderful father who is supportive and loving..he cried in court to the judge making me look bad, tells lies to people so they think I am a crazy person and the worse part is that he talks bad to my daughter about mom…he says your mom used to be pretty but now she is a fat pig, she belongs in a cow farm, W tells her I am brain washing her..it goes on and one…and the sad fact is that he gets away with all that he does because he has the money and a great attorney…the lies that he is telling has gone way to far and I am so fed up with all this but don’t have a way out…my friends and family don’t want to hear another word of it and NONE of them understand what is really going on…they think I am making up the stories I tell them and can’t believe that someone could actually do those things…and they look at me like I am crazy…I sit here alone scared and wondering what W will do to me next…I don’t sleep, cry alot, I grind my teeth, I ache all over and sometimes think it might be better if I wasn’t around anymore to see the damage this is doing to my daughter…I worry so much if my daughter will be hurt or even removed from the states one day by W…I can;t concentrate, everything is a blur, I have to make a daily log just so I can remember all the incidents or abuse…i read in a blog about the spath and the legal system and it is 100% right on the money…he has won everytime leaving me broke with no options….so I sit, worry and wait to see what he will do to me next…

kim frederick

I feel so sorry for those of you that must endure the custody battles, child support struggles and just general co-parenting spathiness and games.

I have been through a lot, but haven’t had to deal with that! God bless you all.

Loosing..hope

Thank you Kim F we all need to hear that someone out there has a heart for you and your situation …

It is a heartbreaking, hurtful, no – way out, non-stop process you go through … even if they win in court, they get bored eventuallly and they find a new way to hurt you and your child even worse …

If I knew what I know now about s paths I would have never told W he was the father and moved far far away!!!

myheart

Spath is a son of mother spath. She lived with us and is living with him right now. So I had two of them at the house. I called him many times “AM I dealing with an adult or I am dealing with a 10 years old”, oh sorry my 10 years old was more matured.

Anything spath didn’t like or felt he has nothing to response, he would run to his mommy who was downstairs complaining like a young child “mom mom look what is she(I) saying”, and his mother 100% times would come out and start throwing her tanturm at me in his support, and here I am standing dealing with two of them. Many times I didn’t know who is who, becuase he would use her phrases, her body language, one was educated, and other never went to school. They both scream in univoice, and I would just stand there and hear this noise made by them.

Any time if I raise an issue, he would call “you are harrassing me”, and threatened to call the police on me. Again my surprise was am I truly dealign with a same person. I thought may be he is depressive and doesn’t know what to do.

But during this time I had to call 911, because in the middle of night he was yelling his head off at me for nothing. He got scared and went downstairs and pulled his mother out of the bed to deal with the police. It was one amusing scene, I wished I had a video camera to record the whole ordeal. When police came, they both were scraming out of their lungs, and I was sitting quite. Police asked me since I called , what happened, I pointed towards them, and said “this is happening, and I don’t know how to stop this”, police gave them a big warning and left. After that he stopped giving threat of callin 911.

Outside people will never believe that he behaved like this at home.

So far I understood that he was a control freak and son of a another control freak.

Now I understadn they both are spath, she lied for him, on my face. they both lied with name of god in their breath. I always felt puzzeled, why would you need to call god to proof that you are tellign truth, I never do that, because I don’t have need to prove anything.

Yes they were killing my soul, because I knew it was wrong and I felt I am stuck in it, and I would work harder to prove to them I am a good person who loves to take care of poeple, and they were trying harder to break me.

I always use word “they”, because I had two of them. But again I am not there anymore only his mother is with him, his sis inlaw told me, now they fight with wach other daily, because they have so other to bounce at…. My counselor told me, he has married to his mother, no other woman will survive with him and after his mother is gone he will be so broken us, it will be no use to anybody.

I feel we have power to stop all this madness, legal, non-legal, we do….

If we can become sufficient to take care of ourself financially and physically, cut that thread, which gives them power over us…. Work and think properly and see what are the deals spath has with you, and see how can you eliminate that one by one, to have truly NO Contact…..

Ox Drover

Dear Losing hope,

Welcome to love fraud, but you are NOT alone, and WE DO BELIEVE YOU. I know that you feel helpless, depressed and witihout hope—-that is what the result of their abuse does, but you are NOT WITHOUT HOPE…you just have to find it.

First find a counselor and get assessed for depression, calla domestic violence shelter for a referral if you have no insurance or money. GET ASSESSED for PTSD….you also may be eligible for social security disability (that takes time but there are attorneys who will work with you on a contengency basis to get you through it) Severe Depression and/or PTSD will many times qualify you for this which will give you medicare insurance and at least a minimal disability income…you may also qualify for medicaide as well to help with medical and medicine and therapy costs.

PUT YOURSELF ON THE FRONT BURNER right now—start taking care of you. Focus on YOU not him. You cannot change him, but you can heal yourself. YOU DO NOT HAVE TO LET HIM RUIN YOUR LIFE….knowledge is power, READ HERE AND LEARN–learn about healing. This whole journey starts out about them, but ends up about US–believe it or not, in the end it doesn’t matter what they did or do or what they are, but it matters what WE BECOME! OVER COME. God bless.

Loosing..hope

myheart…..

I am sorry you have to deal with double s paths! That is horrible.

I agree with the children acting as adults because of what the sociopath’s have exposed them to. My daughter has lost her childhood … she was at the W’s house for Easter and there was no Easter bunny basket, church or dye-ing eggs….nothing at age 8…I kills me that my only child is acting like she is 16 already

The law seems to protect the s path. You can’t record them, it’s hard to catch them to take pictures and on top of that they have convinced everyone that they are the good guy and that YOU are the problem! Even if you have proof no judge has time to look at your pictures, read your logs or go through polilce reports to stop them. The more the s path gets away with the more harm the cause. Watching W commit tax fraud, bankruptcy, running tolls, stealing from stores, hiding money has changed the way I see people…I have a real hard time trusting anyone and because of that I stay home alone in my “safe house” so that I don’t get subjected to another evil s path.

When you wrote “killing my soul” it hit home for me…because it totally feels like that. Everyday my mind in going on circles, I can’t concentrate to get things done and at the end of the day when the house is a mess, my daughter is disrespecting me (coming from visits at dads), no homework is done, and my list of “things to do” is still untouched….I sit there feeling like I have nothing left inside to give to just “do”.

I do wish the court systems would reconize s path’s and have a trained attorney and therapist to testify to put an end to all the cases that s paths win … we need help.

Loosing..hope

Ox D…..

Thank you so much for all of your kind words, ideas and comments! It is so nice to know that all of you on here are going through the same situations and that I am not “crazy”.

I have tried medication but hated the way it made me feel. I have tried counseling and told them that I am dealing with a sociopath..the response was “how do you know they are a sociopath? Has W ever been diagonosed as one?” MY GOD…so I stopped going after that. I KNOW WHAT I KNOW!! Once you read the definition of a s path…YOU KNOW.

I have been trying to find hope for years now.

What kills me the most is the guilt I have for having a baby with W. I watch my daughter go through the wrath of W and it kills me to my core. He doesn’t know how to care for a child yet the courts feel he is a great dad…I did this to my daughter and she doesn’t deserve this abuse. I can’t protect her. I can’t stop W. I can’t get over the guilt.

I agree with you…I reading the sociopath next door and have learned sooo much on this site…thank you for guidance and strong words 🙂

fooltoo

My ex (sociopath) put me through hell, scammed me, abused me, took everything from me. He even turned my kids against me with his lies and money. (he is a GREAT liar, I believed him for 28yrs) Yet his life just keeps getting better… new, young wife, job promotions, huge income, my kids. I just don’t understand why others can’t see through him and his lies and his fake personality?????

Ox Drover

Dear Fooltoo,

Welcome to LoveFraud, and personally I don’t think YOU are the FOOL, I think those other people who are FOOLED are the fools….and you ARE BELIEVED HERE and you are NOT ALONE.

We can’t change them, we can only change our responses to what they are and have done.

While it may seem on the outside that they have a “good life” and they may even believe that they do…I also realize that there is more to a “good life” than just money and fooling others.

The ability to give and receive love, the ability to have compassion, and to have the “give a chit factor” all are what I thiink makes life worth while. There are others who think fame and money are what makes it worth while…but those people are so shallow they wouldn’t hold rain water…so focusing on what is important, what is good, what is honorable…I think that in the end will give us a feeling of living a GOOD LIFE. Money can’t buy that, and others may not approve of us, but we must validate ourselves with our own knowledge of what is good and right and honorable.

Holding on to the truth when no one else believes it is real courage, real strength….and it is what we must develop in ourselves. The world voting on “truth” doesn’t change the facts….

ErinBrock

Ftoo:
Have faith……it won’t last. Faith is an important sustainability factor for us.
A portrayal is all he lives…….
I look at my ex spath and others reactions to him and it DOES make me sick……and then I remind myself…..HA….I know something they don’t…..THE TRUTH!

I just had a revelation last night…..he’s wooing the last of the money client he thinks he has a chance with in my town……someone who ‘trust’s him and thinks he walks on water’ (currently)…..and could potentially give him a job here and bring him back to this area. (WORST MOVE FOR US!!!!)
They are oblivious of his danger……they too want their ego’s stroked, which he does.
He stole from them in the past and pawned it off on the contractor…….they suspected him and withdrew……but time has softened that suspician…..along with his attempts at whooing them….being charming to the gold digger wifey……
Anyways…..my point is…..
Have faith, it’s not for real…..your a leg up, you already know this…….NOW…..it’s ‘their’ turn (new dupes) to figure this out.
The grass is NEVER greener on the other side of the fence.
We can water fake turf……and fertalize it……BUT….it will NEVER GROW. NEVER, EVER, EVEr……because it’s plastic.
Anyone can install fake grass……so that the neighbors admire your ever so green perfect lawn….from afar…….just don’t get too close or walk on it, because you’ll realize….IT”S ONLY PLASTIC!!!!!
You are waaay ahead of them…….you KNOW the truth.

newlife08

Loosing Hope !!!!!!!!!!!!

Yoiu must hang in ….you must. As guilty as we feel for what we have brought to our children – YOU are the only hope she has to see clearly, love deeply and grow into a lovely young woman. I see it with my own daughter. Before I let him go, my daughter had littlle respect left for me for what I allowed him to get away with. He just wasn’t present in the marriage or our home. He was selfish, philandering, spending and driving us into debt. We waited on him and for him.

Now, she is by nature a strong female – a bit judgemental and intolerant – but my GOD she gets him – she cuts him no slack and refuses to kiss the ring to get anything she wants. She will go without saying now, it is too much work and maintainance to try to have a relationship with her dad. She is 17 and I blame myself that she doesn’t get what she needs from her dad.

My son – it is difficult to protect and shelter him from his dad’s machinations – and I have learned I have to let him learn on his own . I just try to have strong boundaries against imitating his father’s manipulations , lying and deceit. It is getting more difficult as he gets older and bigger . BUT – I try .

Daughter is 17 and son is 12. I have a long way to go . Our story is long and sad – and very destructive – as all the stories here are.

My house was just robbed 4 weeks ago and his biggest concern is that I was HIDING MONEY FROM HIM !!!!!!

We have NOT lived together in 3 years !!

Not that our home was violated, not that WE cannot sleep at night, not that SOMEONE stole my d’s college money .

Just that I had something put aside and sacrificed for my daughter;’s future that he didn’t know about.

He should be hunting down the perpetrator like a dog !!!!
But then again, he is everyone’s first suspect !

So please – hold on – it WILL get better. It just does in time. It’s not over for me yet – but I do see him so much more clearly. We all can – thanks to this site and Steve Becker !!!!

Shalom

Loosing…hope. Let LF be the guardian of your guilt and shame. Leave it here. Use the love and support you get from this awesome community of survivors, as your new foundation. Even one brick at a time…you can rebuild. This place of validation has become my touchstone and changed my life. I am so thankful.

Findingmyself

Hi everyone!

I am still here reading all the time. Healing, and moving forward.

I don’t know where to turn except here with what I just discovered. I was in my 16 year old daughters room, looking for something she borrowed from me. I opened the draw next to her bed and found a hand written note, I generally don’t pry or read things she leaves laying around. But a few words caught my eye, so I started glancing over her note. My jaw hit the floor.

This is what she wrote:

I hate how I have nothing to offer. I hate how I don’t impress you. I hate how I never feel pretty around you. I hate how I feel unwanted by you. I hate how the nice things you say to me sound the least serious. I hate how you treat me and my friends. I hate how you feel greatest when you make somebody else feel their lowest. I hate how you ripped me away from my friends. I hate how all you do is make me cry. I hate how you always apologized, but never mean it. I hate how you say you love me, when all you care about is sex. I hate how you always think my feelings mean nothing. I hate how you toss me around like a rag doll. I hate how much I love you…Even if I don’t know why.

She has been dating a boy (that I don’t like much) for a little over a year. She has broken up with him a couple times, and they end up back together (starting to sound familiar). I could have wrote that note about my ex-spath! Almost word for word. I have had discussions with her regarding this boyfriend, and how she should never allow him to make her feel badly, or any type of abusive acts whatsoever. I am SO concerned, more than ever, after reading that note. Problem is, I don’t know how to approach her, or if I should even mention that I read her note.

As I type this, it occured to me that note could have been written in the past. She did clean her room yesterday and maybe she found that note and just put it in her top drawer. I was thinking it was written recently and that’s why it was there.

Regardless, the fact that she wrote that, gave me the chills. She is smart (strait A student), beautiful, outgoing and has so much going for her. I don’t want her to end up with a spath in the making. He’s 16, his parents divorced. I adore his mom. His dad, I have never met. Although my daughter has, and she dislikes him. She has heard stories of abuse that happened while his parents were together. I keep telling her, the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree.

I need some input, please. How do I approach this, with out her getting mad that I was snooping (even though I wasn’t). I don’t want to push her away. These teen years are difficult enough. We do have a good relationship, most of the time. I am afraid for her.

I don’t want her making the same mistakes I made. She is so proud of me for breaking off with my ex and going NC. She couldn’t stand him. Yet, she is dating a boy who could be his mini-clone.
__________________________________

Loosing..hope

fooltoo…

I totally get it and know what you are going through…my s path is living a millionare lifestyle while cutting me off for c/s…all of his new g/f’s think he’s a great dad and that I am evil…..oh – he does pay for the catholic school for my daughter to keep the fahsod (sp?) going so that everyone thinks he is amazing and godly.

I have to watch him buy expensive things, trips, clothes, etc….taking care of the young clueless girls and buying my daughter’s love… knowing that there is nothing I can do about it…it is really hard to know that W is willing to let me sink financially when he has plenty of money to pay the court order support.

They say karma…but when the heck is it going to happen?

Loosing..hope

Thanks newlife08 🙂

Loosing..hope

Shalom…

thank you for the kind words….today I already feel better just by blogging and reading…it is ashame that there is so many of us dealing with this ugly problem 🙁

Loosing..hope

Finding myself…

I am soo sorry that you found that letter….after reading your posting I felt my old self when I was her age saying the same things…the older I get the more I realize that I have been dealing with s path’s all my life…and at the age of 42…I am terrified to date for fear of making another mistake….please please find someone like a counselor or a book she can read, someone to talk to her…I know that teenagers “are in love” and they are blinded by the boy…I only wish I had someone to warn me when I was young. I feel that the high schools should have a class for young girls to learn self esteem and the skills to be able to walk away when they are abuse or treated badly and then they should offer a class for young boys on how to treat the girls with respect…it could change the world…I wish you the best of luck 🙂

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