By | February 21, 2011 830 Comments

Sociopaths keep the charade going for awhile

I was with my sociopathic ex-husband, James Montgomery, for two and a half years. During this time, I knew he was costing me money, but he attributed his lack of business success to “being ahead of his time.” I eventually discovered that he was lying and cheating on me. But although I saw eruptions of anger, my ex was never abusive towards me—nothing like the abuse many of you have endured.

Some sociopaths can treat people reasonably well for an extended period of time, if it suits their purpose. For example, Lovefraud received the following e-mail from a reader:

I was not in a disastrous relationship with my S. Our relationship was less than three years, our marriage less than two, when he openly cheated and decided to leave me, then played games of false reconciliation, which in hindsight were so he could have two sex partners.

The short end of my question is… How do you reconcile the basically happy marriage, the illusion of a man you married with the horrible monster he has become in trying to create turmoil in your life and use your greatest love (your child) to hurt you?

Expressions of love

I’ll get to this reader’s question shortly. But first I want to review some of the information Lovefraud learned in last year’s survey (not the current one) about people involved with individuals who exhibited sociopathic traits. One of the objectives of that survey was to investigate whether and how often sociopaths expressed love.

We asked the question, “Did the individual you were involved with verbally express love or caring to you?”

A total of 85% of all survey respondents said yes. And, when the individuals being described were the spouses or romantic partners of the survey respondents, rather than parents, children or others, 92% of the males and 95% of the females expressed love verbally.

How often did this happen? A total of 44% of survey respondents said the sociopathic individual expressed love daily.

Complete change

The survey also asked the following: “Please provide a brief description of the way the person you were involved with expressed love. How did this change over the course of your relationship?”

Now I’ve been hearing all kinds of stories about the games sociopaths play in relationships for more than five years. Yet some of the answers to this question still made my jaw drop.

A small group of survey respondents reported a complete change of behavior the moment they were committed to the relationship—moved in, married or pregnant. This startling change was reported in reference to 7% of the females and 5% of the males. Here are some of the quotes:

Initially with dates, flowers, gifts and little thoughtfullness’s. After I married him, he said, on the Honeymoon, ‘I can stop acting now.’ I thought that he was joking. I later learned he did not do jokes.

From very loving to cold indifference…started right after we were married — The change was startling — cold, distant, indifferent, condescending, mean spirited, accusatory — self righteous, irresponsible

It changed the minute we got married. Then he owned me you see, I was nothing to him after he lured me in!  All he wanted was MONEY!

In the beginning of the relationship (before marriage) he was loving, caring, could not do enough for me. Called me his soul mate, his true companion in life. This continued until the day I married him, within hours after the wedding ceremony his personality shifted. It was as if I had dated and fell in love with one person, but married someone I was completely unfamiliar with, he was a stranger to me in all ways.

Doesn’t exist

So, back to our reader’s question, “How do you reconcile the basically happy marriage with the horrible monster he has become?”

The man this reader saw during the happy part of the marriage did not exist. It was an act, a charade, a mirage that the sociopath kept going until it no longer served his purpose. The real man is the horrible monster.

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Ox Drover

Great Point, Donna!


The only way to reconcile the man you think he was with the horrible monster he really is requires you to realize he was never who you thought he was in the first place. There is nothing you can do to change him and nothing you can do to help him, but you can help yourself by changing your way of thinking. Until you experience a relationship with a sociopath, it is difficult to comprehend what he is capable of doing since you don’t think the same way he does. You have to accept that evil people like him exist and have already spent years deceiving and using other women, convincing even himself of his lies. He doesn’t consider himself to be doing anything wrong even after he leaves a trail of bewildered women in his wake because he has no conscience or remorse. You have to realize and accept you did nothing wrong when you believed and trusted this man thinking he was the man he wanted you to think he was. Men like him are empty souls living empty lives looking for easy targets in order to achieve their goal of appearing normal, and no one or nothing can stop them. You aren’t the first and certainly not the last. There is a reason you were in his path, and even though it will take time, you have to pick up the pieces, accept what happened, and show your beautiful spirit by forgiving him and moving on to find joy and peace once again.


Hi Nora,
very well written post.
succinct message for all of us as to how to deal with ourselves and find our own worth, joy and peace again. plenty of easy targets around – we cannot stop him or stop the targets, even no one could have stopped us when we were being lovebombed.
agree wih you – accept what happened, remove the bitterness and find peace in our lives.
thanks for this timely post for me.

Ox Drover

Good morning Petite, though guess it is your evening! LOL

I thought this article is a good one and you are so right that “no one could have stopped us when we were being lovebombed.”


We talk about the ‘mask slipping’, and I think that is an apt description of the the apparent ‘change’ we witness.

i think we have 2 jobs that we have to undertake. The first is to accept the ugliness we have experienced as ‘real’ and therefore the true character of the spath. We have to dismantle the delusional thinking that says, ‘but he was really nice, when he wasn’t being evil’.

Secondly, we have to unravel the delusional thinking that equates their bit of nice with our desire for/ and fantasy of love. We can weave whole worlds out of scraps of attention. We have to really look at what they brought to the table and what we brought to the table and disengage the two. We have to look at our unmet and possible unknown needs that we have woven into the fantasy of love, that we then wove them into.

getting over a spath is hard – first, who the hell lies that much? we have to integrate the truth of their being a lie, and then we have to unravel the lies we have told ourselves/ have been told about what is real, and what we are worthy of.

lesson learned

Very good article,

There was mention on the blog yesterday about holding onto good memories, even with a spath. This got me to thinking…..were there truly ANY good times without abuse?

They were so few and far between. Unlike a lot of the readers here, I was not “love bombed” the same way most have been because of my status with my spath, so I can’t say for sure what would have happened had we both been single and then he loved bombed me. Truthfully, I may not have been in the relationship as long as I was if I had been. I did notice that once he was divorced and could have me around all the time, he was immediately cheating, trolling….

I think that’s what happens when they think they have you.

His first marriage lasted four years. His second seventeen and there were signs that they BOTH were love bombed and then as soon as the deal was sealed with marriages, the behavior switch was immediate. There were things he said that indicated that, although it was a projection, now that I think about it it is very clear.

Spaths can keep up their charade for awhile, but seems it’s about month three when things start going downhill, although some can keep it up longer, without outward signs of abuse, as was with Donna’s case. Mine was extremely emotionally abusive from the get go, but really started shining the light by month three.

One, you’re right. Who lies that much? The lies are absolutely amazing. Absolutely. I’m still finding out more and more lies that go way way back.

“We can weave whole worlds out of scraps of attention. Boy isn’t that the truth!!! I sure did! I think I got less scraps than his DOG and I was still BEGGING, UGH!




That’s the hook – being thrown scraps, and begging for more. We have to learn that when we are thrown scraps, we WALK AWAY!

lesson learned


AMEN to that!!! I wonder, was this hook used in any of your marriages too? Seems that mine enjoyed his bone tosses, then just as I was enjoying the taste of the bone, ripping it away.

He enjoyed the pain of knowing that I was NEVER going to have him, but that someone else always would.



my expereince with the spath was like that – she created a whole cast of characters who would get to ‘have’ the main character. after the fake death and resurrection of the main character she played that one big time. I saw through it, and although there was a small hook there for me, i squashed it like an overripe pumpkin within myself, and went nc.


Thank you Donna for this article……

For me, I had a great need to unravel……put together ‘what’ I really lived (puzzle pieces).
What I lived was real……..the part ‘he’ shared with me was false.
So much goes along with this process.
Knowing that I commited to my husband, I commited to our business, and I commited to being a mother and having a family was very REAL to me.
None of it was to him… was another piece in his puzzle, to hide behind….US.

It was important and very helpful to me to write out each part of my life as I remembered it.
All the times that perplexed me….because his reactions or actions never made sense…..but I went along…with my own understanding and compassion of life.
I forgave, because nobody’s perfect. I overlooked, because nobody’s the same. I gave chances because I thought….he was who he was because of his childhood/upbringing.
I didn’t think like him……and I dismissed so much out of love and empathy and the world telling me not everybody was the same. I became willing to look at things from his ‘viewpoint’….e.ven though it never made sense. Then I started to doubt my own perceptions.

Putting the puzzle together for myself provided me with a picture of the life I was involved in.

Then I had to come to terms with it all.

For me that part was the easy part……because what I lived was authentic. It was him that was false.
I’ve carried on KNOWING ‘who’ I am. And I refuse to own his ‘stuff’. His lies, his deciet and his abuse. those were HIS choices.
I carry on with my eyes open…….but knowing WHO I AM, and solid in that.

I still doubt myself… ability to recognize trouble, good people etc…..but I err on the side of caution now. If I doubt you…..I don’t ‘let’ you in.
Because the facade occured over most of my lifetime…..I understand it will take a lot of years to be able to ‘throw caution to the wind’…..and take chances with people in regards to trust. If ever……
I am okay with that.
We move forward trying to prevent the dupes……i’m not sure this is entirely possible…..yet we still try.
I am okay with that…….
I know, I don’t have the emotional funding in my ‘account’ to spend on being duped……
So I remain vigilant.

Coming to terms is a process…..first understanding the reality of your life…..and your being solid with your intentions……then what it was that you participated in.

Then on to healing and acceptance.
Not ‘owning’ their con on us is important. (understanding ‘how’ they were successful is the important part).

I will not own his actions/behaviors or lies……I lived authentically. My life with HIM was the lie. I was not the lie, nor was my life.

I can move forward with the knowledge that right is right, wrong is wrong……..and I am still the same person with the same morals and character I’ve had all along……THOSE, NOBODY COULD STEAL FROM ME.


Erin Brock – thank you for this:’”because what I lived was authentic. It was him that was false.’ thank you very very much.


Since there were three main Spaths in my life, my two husbands and my BF, let me start by commenting on a particular instance with first husband. We lived in a small town in my state. His job took him to the capitol city in which he was commuting. He was constantly changing his mind on things. He filed for divorce once on me with very cheap paper. This was back in the 70’s and I believe it was done with that …..well nevermind, not important except that we had a fight and reconciled before the papers were served. He told me to ignore them. He left once and came back at the advice of a pastor marriage counselor, not our pastor.

This was bad advice. I should have not let him come back until he made a significant effort to change and I saw the results.

After all of this including me finding out that he was gay, he did a number on me to get me to sign the papers to sell our house so we could move to the capitol city. I do not regret that now as I was smart enough to keep my half of the sale in a separate bank account that I started….:).

Back in the 70’s the Ted Bundy trial was on TV. I would come home at night and watch the televised trial. This was my first experience that I know of warching an actual sociopath. However, the number that my husband pulled on me to get me to move to the big city with him could have won him an Oscar. We had the chance to live in some old base housing that were actual historical mansions. He was an officer in the USAF. We lived on Officer’s Circle. The place was so big it was the closest thing to a castle that I ever lived in. He had me convinced that he would buy me a baby grand piano. Instead he charged on our credit card a plane ticket to get his pesky gay lover out of town. Moved him to Texas. We lived in the house from September to January and then separated the Day after New Years. I filed for divorce in February. So much for the mansion. I never knew whether to hang the pictures or take them down. I did compare him with Ted Bundy, as far as his ability to charm and manipulate. As soon as we put the boxes on the floor at the new residence his personality changed back to ugly.


P.S. A note about the homosexuality. It was well hidden because of him being in the military. I do not fault him for that. He could have been honest with me and told me he made a mistake…..But he was also an abuser and a liar. He would tip over furniture and throw things. Once he threw a large terrarium against our fireplace. I believe the worst thing he did though was to try to convince me that the break up of our marriage was my fault.


ummm, are you sure he is gay? Did he ever “come out”?
Because most of the spaths are not gay or straight or bi, they are just sex addicts because they use sex for power. That’s why they will screw anything.


The charade the sociopath puts on is really convincing. I actually used the words “genuine” and “sincere” to describe him when I first met him. He even charmed my friends with his humble “boy next door” demeanor. When I found out he was a pathological liar, I was completely dumbfounded. The only thing that was strange about him in the beginning was the love bombing, which I’d never experienced. I thought it was so unusual that maybe it was a sign I’d found the right guy. Usually I pick guys who are aloof and don’t want to commit. I figured it would just take me a little while to catch up with his strong feelings for me. This was all 3 years ago now. In retrospect, it seems so surreal.

At my age I’ll admit, I’ve dated some selfish and immature guys. I’ve experience all kinds of game-playing from men. But this guy took it to a whole different level. When the truth started to unravel, about 2 months into the relationship, there was something very sinister about it. I knew whatever it was could not be cured or fixed. I ran as far as I could. Even though I still craved him and longed for him, thankfully, I never broke NC.


Skylar, what power do they want to get from sex?
I observed in mine that after 6 or 7 months of relationship for him was more important to be in control than having an orgasm. I noticed a change and i related it to some power needs. But what do they get from doing that besides making clear to the other side that they’re more abnormal than one was starting suspecting?

Ox Drover

Eva, many of them CONTROL is what is is all about, that POWER that they can feel over others is even more valuable to them, more satisfying than sex. I think, just my theory, that even though sex is “satisfying” to them, because they can’t get the EMOTIONAL BONDING from sex in the brain (the chemicals we do) that it actually doesn’t mean as much or feel as good to them as it does to us. I think they actually know we get “something” out of sex that they don’t but they aren’t sure what it is but they want it. I think that may account for why they change partners so often, looking for that elusive “feeling.”


Skylar, LOL

Now I am totally confused. He was bi. He never actually came out publicly. I didn’t actually know about it until the last year of our marriage. He did disappearing acts. He would pick a fight with me on Friday, leave for the weekend and come home and make up so he could go to work.

I would call him occasionally as my autistic daughter did a lot of strange things back then like climb out her window, and as he was supposed to be at the library, it turned out that I had misunderstood him, he was actually at the gymn….no next time he went to the gymn it was actually the library. He went 30 miles to a neighboring town to frequent these library gymns because our town was like Maybery.

His mother went to her death not knowing he was gay. His older brother’s wife didn’t know. I told her once, and she said “Now that explains a lot.” My best friend was fooled. She would have never guessed his was gay. I believe he was at least bi (we did have a child) he could function sexually. He was 8 1/2 years older than me. I was 20 when I married him and a pastor’s daughter. I believe he married me as a front or trophy wife to take to the Officer’s Club functions.

When he moved out of town when my daughter was 12 years old he kept his obligation of child support as he had to because of the military. Once she turned 18 she did not receive and still doesn’t as much as a birthday card.



When I hear myself describe anyone now with the words…..charming, good, nice, true, honest…..etc…
I find myself stepping back and prefacing those adjectives with……He/She appears as…..
It helps me NOT fall into the description and buy into that.
Those were former words I held stock in…..and built trust around.
Charming is a huge red flag……for me…..spath is very charming. It’s his initial hook.
I don’t want charming! I want genuine, authentic, honest in my life now…..not the schmooze of charm.

People fall too heavily on charm.
Charming is temporary, its a shiney fake gold ring, that once you get it wet…….it rusts on your finger.


Eva, sociopaths do not feel empathy like other humans do. Their emotions are very shallow and often feigned (faked). Because they are so empty and hollow in their core, they are constantly bored. Sex and power are like games for them that keep their interest for a short time. The game of conquest. They are not concerned with others thinking they are abnormal, because their perception of themselves and others is skewed anyway. This is why you cannot ever reason with a sociopath. You cannot convince them of their illness or that they did anything wrong. They live in their own little world with their own rules that don’t apply to other living things.

If their spouse ever figured out they were abnormal, this would not shame them. It would suddenly become a game to them – to either win back the spouse’s affection with lying and gaslighting, to destroy the victim, OR to move on to another willing victim and discard the old one. It’s all part of the game they play that substitutes for real connection. This is the best they can do. Without having to expend their energy on real relationships, they have a lot of time and energy for their games.


Yes, Ox, it was something really shocking. He was clearly more interested in control than in sex. And he looked at me intensely into my eyes.
He’s a big psychopath with all the traits very developed except the psysical violence, though once he told me “i would never beat you ever” which made me think he had done it to other women. And he was still an attractive man with almost 50 which means he must have left a really big long collection of shocked women since his teens.
But they’re a bit pathetic after all, they’re uncompleted.


Quote from Eva :

“Skylar, what power do they want to get from sex?
I observed in mine that after 6 or 7 months of relationship for him was more important to be in control than having an orgasm. I noticed a change and i related it to some power needs. But what do they get from doing that besides making clear to the other side that they’re more abnormal than one was starting suspecting?”

My second husband was like that. He could perform and actually seemed to enjoy sex but didn’t make love. There was very little kissing involved. If I ever initiated the sex it would have to be when he was asleep……I mean he did wake up but had his guard down. I remember him leaving once in the middle of sex because he had to get going before the bank closed.

The other thing he often did was to initiate sex when it was impossible to do, like I was going to be late for work or another appointment. Then, it was “my fault”. I can see now that it was about control. It was on his time, his way. He also watched a lot of porn on the internet and didn’t bring any arousal to bed with him where I was waiting. What a pig.



I know it Stargazer. I saw it…I saw all the traits: the lack of empathy, the lack of remorse, the gaslighting, the blaming me, the lack of responsability, the lies, the mirrowing me, and finally saw the extreme egocentrism and his priority for power and control. These two last ones made me understood he had some serious pathology.


There are many different kinds of control that they can get with sex. For some, the control is literally gained by raping another person. But for the covert sociopath like ours, that control is mind control. They know that once they have our emotions, they control our minds, so they use sex to fake emotional bonding and control our own bonding.

My own spath actually took it a step further. Without going into too much description, I can tell you that our sex lasted for hours, even up to 10 hours as he controlled every little reaction in my body with his hands and voice. He knew exactly how to manipulate every nerve ending on me. He knew exactly what to do and say and he enjoyed watching all this play out on my body. I rarely touched him at all or did anything in our lovemaking. It was him doing everything to me. And he held off on orgasm for hours, if he did at all. At first I thought he was just really a great lover, and he wanted to please me. But now I know, he just loved playing me like a puppet and watching me squirm.

lesson learned

Charming is a huge red flag—for me”..spath is very charming. It’s his initial hook.
I don’t want charming! I want genuine, authentic, honest in my life now”..not the schmooze of charm.

People fall too heavily on charm.
Charming is temporary, its a shiney fake gold ring, that once you get it wet—.it rusts on your finger.

I absolutely one hundred percent, agree with that. I TOTALLY agree with that. That would be my NUMERO UNO red flag paid attention too FIRST. it is that CHARM they use in their “NEED TO WIN” that creates an “overlook” to anything they say or do! EXCELLENT point!!

If I have new friendships with ANYONE, I want to take my time. There IS NO RUSH. I think, as far as men are concerned, if they aren’t head over heels (charming your pants off, literally), and take their time, THAT is what I would pay attention to insofar as a potential good friend or future partner, other than that, NO THANK YOU!

I realize there are NO guarantees, but there are warnings and there is something SO WRONG with a man who is in love with you in two weeks, WTF?

Nuh uh.



True to self, he iniciated sex and he liked kissing but after several months there was that change. A few months later i left him so i couldn’t see if he would have lost interest in sex or whatever. But it was becoming clear that being in control and to manipulate was his main interest, so i got scared and avoided him, started a searching for his pathology, found it out and i never came back, though i was about because he tried hard. But since he didn’t get it he’s dessapeared. He knew it was over.

I know Skylar, and his was mind control type, though at the beginning i was not aware. But later appeared a lot of strange things included that strange behaviour in bed.

Aaah how scaring they are.

lesson learned

Yuck. I’m sorry but ten hours is just a bit much.

I also “see” by your descriptions, what was going on. I had a few similar experiences with my spath. I will NEVER forget the first time we had sex. It was the single most WEIRD experience I have ever had in my life. THAT was when I should have ran for my life!! It was a TOTAL CONTROL issue one hundred percent, meant for me to think I need to do more TO HIM to make him “come out of his shell” it was the same MO bullshit he used on his last love bomb effort too.

It is amazing what they do when it comes to sex. Mine was rather infantile.



This is such an interesting conversation. My computer is a little slow today……or maybe it is me so excuse me for not quoting or quoting the wrong person.

Starting with Skylar. Honest question. Have you ever been interested in M/s (master – submissive)? I have to admit that I used to be. My H would also do that to me as far as he seemed to enjoy my reaction. However once he felt he had a sure thing maybe that is when he lost interest. Besides, he would love to make me feel inadaquate or undesirable. I am thinking now that even the affair he had he confessed to because I didn’t figure it out. He wanted to hurt me. I was asleep when he got home late. He actually confessed to me the next day but probably could have got away with it. Instead I became the sex maniac myself trying to be “the total woman”. I can’t remember how long that lasted, but one time our window was open and he was gloating and saying out loud a little to our neighbor. “Hey Bob, look what I have.” eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeek

Someone said that their SO or H said that he would never hurt them physically. My BF told me once that he never wanted me to be afraid of him. My exH when he left told me that he had thoughts of beating the crap out of me. I also found him looking at gory bloody pictures on YouTube….makes my skin crawl. Glad I escaped these creatures.

Back to S&M or M/s…..after a lengthy conversation with a guy I met on line I realized what I had agreed to but woke up two hours later with an asthma attack, quickly emailed him a no thanks email. The only thing I didn’t like at first was that he left a small command, I was supposed to email him at a certain time of the day or night can’t remember and say a certain thing. This “control” bothered me. The rest I told myself was just dinner the following Tuesday. I could always say no after that.

The movie 9 1/2 weeks with Kim Basinger was a turn on to me, but then I read the book. At the end of the book the subject started crying and couldn’t stop and ended up in a Psych ward for a while. Even before reading that, I found that I have emotionally changed enough that I actually found the 9 1/2 week movie boring. I’m cured.


lesson learned


I think that sex is a bit overrated at times. I’ve been thinking about that a lot. Anyone can do it, at any time in any way they want with whomever……and really, is satisfactory without all other healthy elements in play?

NOt for me. And if the rest of the relationshit is SHIT, the sex ain’t worth hangin around for…..

one of the things i”ve noticed here in others saying how great the sex was…….in EVERY single story…..ya just gotta ask yourself……….”But it wasn’t enough to stay and put up with anymore shit, was it?”

Nope. It wasn’t.



I agree with you. Even when I talk about the 9 1/2 week fantasy it was ONLY a fantasy. I would never want to live that.

The interesting thing about my 2nd H is that I had to bring him out of his shell also at first. Now that I think about it he was the manipulator from hell.

I would not ever want a relationship just for the sex. In fact I am not dating now or not even considering it. I am working on some health issues, and then when and if I do go out I want it will be friendship. I grew up watching Hollywood movies and saw the I love you’s being said quickly. The movie was only two hours long after all.

To tell you the truth I don’t think I even know what normal is but I do know what it isn’t. Even my taste in movies is starting to change.


I never saw the movie but sort of know what it was about. I just thought, why would I want to see a movie about such a stupid person…LOL. Little did I realize it was about me!

No, I’ve never been into SM but then I was only 17 when I met him. Not inexperienced, I’d dated some pedophiles since age 15, but none did anything weird. Truth is, I didn’t think this was weird at the time. I thought he was just having fun and although it left me exhausted, I was happy to please him.

In truth it got MUCH weirder and that’s when I called it quits with the sex. He started wanting orgies all the time. Same MO, only this time involving more people. So he was manipulating me AND the whole gang. It was like he was directing a movie – whoops, I think he was part of the time. 🙁
hidden camera.

Anyway, spath took the sexual manipulation to a whole new level, as he manipulated a whole cast of REAL and FAKE characters to create a crazy sexual fantasy for me. He thought that just because my body liked it, my mind would too. But it didn’t. I wanted to make him happy and he didn’t seem any happier. He actually seemed more crazy than ever, so for the last 15 years I was a born-again virgin.

I agree, sex IS overrated. I don’t equate love with sex, so I can take it or leave it.

It’s sad that so many men equate sex with power and many women equate it with love. It isn’t either, it’s more like chocolate.

lesson learned


Mine played the “I don’t know how to do it” card from the get go. Last love bomb told me that he told her that he saw the exchange of hot steamy sex emails between his ex wife and her bf and said that he would have done that with her too if he had had the chance”. She caught onto that pity ploy right away and said to me, “wait, he’s been married twice and he never had the chance to do that with her? WTF?”

She was smart. I should have run when he used that same MO with me. I should have made that totally logical and knew it was absolute bullshit. He wanted to be “taught”. I gave him the best sex ever and wore myself out doing it. I loved trying to please him, but it never seemed that he really WAS, although he kept coming back for sex. It didn’t dawn on me until very recently in slowly unraveling all the knots he tied in my head, that perhaps there really WAS a Madonna/Whore complex going on. I seriously believe his wife was deprived, that he created dramas so she’d be unable to have sex with this man. He was so incredibly abusive.
He did the same abusive tactics to me, but I think our sex life was quite active because I was the whore component for him. He didn’t have to commit, made it far more exciting. He used her as the cover.


so now, when I think about sex, I miss it sometimes, but not enough to want to go back to that. It’s not worth all the rest that goes with it. If it ever happens again for me, it’s going to be in a situation where trust and love is involved. That may never happen for me, as old as I am getting, BUT, if it doesn’t, I’ll live.

I can only imagine, because I’ve never had sex with a man who loved me, what that must be like. It looks so much different in my mind than it did with my ex’s.

Skylar, I’m not beyond being more than amorous and creative in the bedroom, if anything, exPOS taught me I’m quite good at it lol! I bet most of here ARE, BUT, when it’s done with a spath, the deviant component is added to it, what would otherwise be fun with someone you loved and trusted (not opposed to that) becomes degrading and emotionally painful with a spath.

I agree with you. It is more like chocolate 🙂



Problem is sometimes chocolate gives me a headache, LOL

You know, not tonight I have a ……..well anyway. It seems like just as I catch on to something my exes want something else. That is why I really am trying to learn now to do what is best for me.

One of the reasons I first thought my exH was just PassiveAggressive is that just when I think I finally get what he wants in any area of life, he wants something else. On the other hand when he finds out I do like something or want something he won’t give it to me.

Wouldn’t it be nice to have a man who doesn’t lie, doesn’t cheat, loves me for me. Then we could actually make love instead of sex.

The other thing is when you tell them secrets or things about your hopes and dreams they don’t throw it back in your face later on.


Ox Drover

Dear TTS,

There is an article here that I think Donna wrote (maybe Liane) about that many of the psychopaths are neither straight or gay, they will Fark anything man, child, woman, girl or beast! They’d fark a snake if Star would let them near her reptiles! To them sex is “getting off” doesn’t matter what method they use, it is really only a warm body doesn’t matter what or who it is attached to.

Ox Drover

TTS “passive Aggressive” is just a METHOD OF MANIPULATION that any number of toxic types use, and remember, Passive-aggressive IS AGGRESSIVE.

lesson learned


I think my ex spath was strictly about women. LOTS of women.

He was a bit “femmie” in some ways, but I was more concerned about how she spoke of his daughter as she approached puberty, than I was about him being with a guy. It’s interesting to note, however, that his brother is gay and he DESPISES him.


lesson learned


Yep mine was the KING of withholding what I wanted. Only on one hand can I count the times he attempted to do anything TO me, it was always FOR him.

I learned to accept that. YUCK! The more I think about it, the more it pisses me off! lol! UGH!!!!!!!!!

One of the weird things that happened towards the end and right during sex was his asking me, “what do women like and want in bed? How can you tell if she has a REAL orgasm?”

Wow. It was truly epically amazing.



ha ha ha ha, Roses. He actually asked you that? And toward the end of your relationship? OMG, he must have sensed the end coming (pardon the pun).

lesson learned


Uh, Star, do ya THINK?


Yeah, some of these spaths can be dumb asses. Maybe one of these days I’ll tell you some of the dumb things my S did to get himself caught and punished.


For alot of spaths it is the pursuit that thrills them.. when we say – ok – I am yours – they dont know wtf to do – they get bored – they need the thrill of the chase – chasing several at a time – but! keeping the dumbest one for a roof over their head while they go fishing – sooner or later we get tired of the chit – so they just pack their things in a brown paper bag and move in with next dimwit…rinse and repeat – I doubt he would even recognize me by now……

lesson learned

Star, would LOVE to hear that chica!

Truly, I think dumbass if FAR too kind 😉

lesson learned


I think you’re right. Something I”ve been pondering. First, it’s the thrill of the chase (several at once), then there’s the bite from the victim (caught), then there is the pretentious monogamy while victim is being love bombed to death. Then she’s hooked. Then he gets bored. So, like mine, he sets up a triangulation situation. Mine was particularly secretive. I wonder how he managed it all with time?


Everyday that passes is another day that I see more.



oh mine came up with the dumbest excuses as to why he was late or had to go here or there – I mean the truth would of been better than the lie – dont get me started…bloomin rose the day WILL come when you look back at all this and thank God and greyhound he is just f—ing gone……..


‘love bombed’ there has to a better way to describe how they do that ..kinda like black widow spider that kills the male after sex – I mean why in the hell does that stupid ass male spider go on that date anyway?

lesson learned


I think love bomb is accurate. What other terms could you put it in? It’s so overwhelming. If you come up with something, let me know, but I think…………dunno, almost like an OCD thing, ya know? It IS like being bombed!!

lesson learned


I”m getting there. The more I find out about the lies and all…..holy shiat I’m more than happy to be out…..

I know I couldn’t stomach that shit again


bombed with love sounds romantic – it’s more like – bombed with lies……lie bombed

lesson learned



Let’s get real creative here……um…..hmmmm….**thinkin**


I met my spath on the reptile site. He lived at an army base an hour away. He told me he was in the process of getting divorced and never wore a ring. However, one day he was posting pictures of his new snake on the reptile site. They were recent pictures from about 3 days after he was talking marriage with me. And lo and behold, what was he wearing on his ring finger? Stupid dumbass forgot to take off his wedding ring for the pictures. It was the give-away that he had lied to me.

He also had lied to the army and told them he had a head injury. He’d been playing them for 2 years trying to get out on a medical discharge. I found this out afterward. He told them he couldn’t walk or drive and had no feeling from the waist down. He faked a facial tic, a speech impediment, and a walking impediment (he used a cane).

Well, he also told me he had a head injury. But around me he acted completely normal. In fact, he even helped a friend of mine remodel his house, ripping out old carpet and stomping it down in the dumpster. My friend wrote him a check and saved a copy of the check. So when I found out he was married, I turned his ass into the army for adultery. It was THEN that his army sergeant told me they suspected malingering (faking an injury to get a medical discharge). Well, my friends had ALL seen him walk and talk and drive normally. And my one friend HAD A COPY OF THE CHECK HE WROTE. We all signed sworn statements, and the army found him guilty of fraud. Of course, he claimed we were all lying. But then….(this is the best part)….I had a PICTURE of him from a reptile show we went to standing up and holding a 75 lb burmese python around his shoulders. GUILTY! Pictures don’t lie.

After we split up, he stalked me at another reptile show. He told the army he never went to that show. But SURPRISE AGAIN! He turned up accidentally in the background of one of MY pictures from the show. He was pretty stupid for a sociopath. He really busted himself.

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