I was with my sociopathic ex-husband, James Montgomery, for two and a half years. During this time, I knew he was costing me money, but he attributed his lack of business success to “being ahead of his time.” I eventually discovered that he was lying and cheating on me. But although I saw eruptions of anger, my ex was never abusive towards me—nothing like the abuse many of you have endured.
Some sociopaths can treat people reasonably well for an extended period of time, if it suits their purpose. For example, Lovefraud received the following e-mail from a reader:
I was not in a disastrous relationship with my S. Our relationship was less than three years, our marriage less than two, when he openly cheated and decided to leave me, then played games of false reconciliation, which in hindsight were so he could have two sex partners.
The short end of my question is… How do you reconcile the basically happy marriage, the illusion of a man you married with the horrible monster he has become in trying to create turmoil in your life and use your greatest love (your child) to hurt you?
Expressions of love
I’ll get to this reader’s question shortly. But first I want to review some of the information Lovefraud learned in last year’s survey (not the current one) about people involved with individuals who exhibited sociopathic traits. One of the objectives of that survey was to investigate whether and how often sociopaths expressed love.
We asked the question, “Did the individual you were involved with verbally express love or caring to you?”
A total of 85% of all survey respondents said yes. And, when the individuals being described were the spouses or romantic partners of the survey respondents, rather than parents, children or others, 92% of the males and 95% of the females expressed love verbally.
How often did this happen? A total of 44% of survey respondents said the sociopathic individual expressed love daily.
Complete change
The survey also asked the following: “Please provide a brief description of the way the person you were involved with expressed love. How did this change over the course of your relationship?”
Now I’ve been hearing all kinds of stories about the games sociopaths play in relationships for more than five years. Yet some of the answers to this question still made my jaw drop.
A small group of survey respondents reported a complete change of behavior the moment they were committed to the relationship—moved in, married or pregnant. This startling change was reported in reference to 7% of the females and 5% of the males. Here are some of the quotes:
Initially with dates, flowers, gifts and little thoughtfullness’s. After I married him, he said, on the Honeymoon, ‘I can stop acting now.’ I thought that he was joking. I later learned he did not do jokes.
From very loving to cold indifference…started right after we were married — The change was startling — cold, distant, indifferent, condescending, mean spirited, accusatory — self righteous, irresponsible
It changed the minute we got married. Then he owned me you see, I was nothing to him after he lured me in! All he wanted was MONEY!
In the beginning of the relationship (before marriage) he was loving, caring, could not do enough for me. Called me his soul mate, his true companion in life. This continued until the day I married him, within hours after the wedding ceremony his personality shifted. It was as if I had dated and fell in love with one person, but married someone I was completely unfamiliar with, he was a stranger to me in all ways.
Doesn’t exist
So, back to our reader’s question, “How do you reconcile the basically happy marriage with the horrible monster he has become?”
The man this reader saw during the happy part of the marriage did not exist. It was an act, a charade, a mirage that the sociopath kept going until it no longer served his purpose. The real man is the horrible monster.
NOTCRAZEE???!!!!! Where are you darling? xx
Here are some INTERESTING ARTICLES I happened upon I thought you guys might enjoy. I hadn’t read this guy before but I thought his “socialized psychopaths” term for those outside of prison who are “functioning” in society was a pretty good one.
http://www.robertmatthews.org/psychopath_articles.html
Thanks, Oxy. I only read the first article, but am going back for more. Good stuff.
So, I read some emails his mother and I had a few years ago, during the time I really ‘believed’ what he said to me. She gave some insight, subtly, about what I was dealing with, however, she was VERY guarded with her information. I was clearly struggling to ‘understnad’ what was happening and she was CLEARLY trying not to say tooooo, tooooo much…
Ok…this charade. I KNEW somethign was going on IMMEDIATELY after he moved in. Two weeks after moving in, I had noticed him being ‘sad’ and he actually said to me “Im just unenthused” about being at my house! And here comes the BOREDOM! OMG!
He began with snide remarks after that…for what? To provoke me so we could have a real EXCITING fight? Well, I didnt bite…
Did he ‘use’ his son as the pawn to provoke me KNOWING I had shared my frustrations over his sons lack of independence. He agreed with me about his son NEEDING to do things on his own…however, after he moved in, this seemed to be ‘forgotten’ by my ex. Instead, I WAS PUT ON THE OUTS…in my own home…and he and his son engaged and I was left to do ‘independent activities’ on MY own.
And he TOLD me he thought it would be ‘more fun’ after moving in with me! He TOLD me he was ‘stressed’…ABOUT WHAT!!!
He also TOLD me he was feeling ‘depressed’…ABOUT WHAT!!!
So, my question remains…was it THAT much fun to keep the charade up UNTIL it came down to the wire and I ‘pressured’ him to move in? Was all this crap I was seeing in him the REAL him and NOT the ‘result’ of ME having a hard time adjusting? Did this all happen as the RESULT OF him NOT WANTING to COMMIT? Then why tell me buying the dog for me for Christmas was a sign of commitment? And if he was just lieing about that what was the purpose?
Babe,
**sigh**…You’re on the bunny trail again, Chica. It’s okay, I was there this week too. Mistake numero uno: you read the emails between his mother and you. Although indirect this is still CONTACT, which set off the ruminating.
Ok, so one by one here:
His being “sad” and “Unenthused” then not telling you WHY, is classic spath. It’s meant to provoke you to action in fixing him, giving him attention or watch you react by his gaslighting. Spath spath spath. When he moved in, his control tactics began immediately, if not subtly at first. Typical spath.
Yes, fighting is exciting for them. VERY. Breaks the boredom.
Yes, he used his son as a pawn. Son is trophy, ownership material for spath. Spath is creating, well a spath. Spaths aren’t responsible, particularly as parents and he was cultivating his son to be the same. But it’s just so much more fun to set up situations to pit you against son. That’s what happened too.
Again, stressed/depressed. Your reaction. Job done.
Yes, it was that much fun to keep up the charade and watch you squirm. That’s what they do. They get off on it. You pressured him? You give yourself too much credit. HE CHOSE to move in, but it’s a nice thing to slime you with, isn’t it? That it’s YOUR fault that you “pressured” poor spath to do something he somehow didn’t want to do? That’s BULLSHIAT, Babe.
Yes, he NEVER had any intention to “commit” Spaths only “commitment” is to destroy the victim.
He told you that about the dog, because he thought you’d believe it. There IS NO PURPOSE to their lies, Babe.
They do it because they can. You’re goign to drive yourself crazy (like I’ve been doing when I ruminate) trying to figure out the why’s. If you can flip this into what he really is, he just wanted to hurt you, distort your perceptions, blame yourself and cause irreparable harm.
He slimed you. It’s time to work on WHY you allowed him to move into your life in the first place. He was a worthless piece of spathy shit, Babe. Figure out why you felt you deserved that at all.
LL
Dear R-BABE,
QUIT FRACKING TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT WAS REAL—NONE ****NONE**** NADA, ZIP, ZERO, ZILCH OF IT WAS REAL….
HE IS THE LIE. HE ***IS*** THE LIE.
None of it was real.
What was the point?
There IS NO POINT. IT JUST IS.
You can keep on asking these same questions over and over and rephrasing them and asking them again, but the answer is always ***always****going to be the same.
THERE IS NO POINT. He did it because he is a psychopath and that is what they do.
Why is the sky, Blue, Mama? Huh? Huh? Why is the sky blue Mama?
JUST BECAUSE THAT’S THE WAY IT IS is why.
No need to go into detail about how the light reflects on the air molecules, THAT IS JUST THE WAY IT IS….accept it…you can’t move on until you can accept what is IS.
Babe,
Ox, is right, YOU WILL NOT MOVE ON UNTIL YOU ACCEPT THAT HE”S A PYSCHOPATH.
Having said that, EDUCATE yourself more ABOUT psychopaths. KEEP reading until it SINKS in. It will, but slowly. It’s NOT overnight. Many have had a long time here to process it. It’s tough but you can DO IT.
STOP READING THOSE EMAILS! I know your brain is trying to make sense of it, but instead of reading those emails (contact) read about psychopaths and what they DO. Absorb the information to tie into your experience and KNOW THAT WHAT YOU SAW WAS THE TRUTH, ironically, meaning EVERYTHING he said and did IS/WAS A LIE.
Get into the articles “explaining the sociopath” when you get stuck. Read Steve Becker’s articles which are EXCELLENT…seriously READ THEM WHEN YOU FEEL TEMPTED TO GET INTO ‘CONTACT” MODE. It WILL Sink in and you’ll understand that reading even those emails is a big no no. If you can’t delete them, make the choice NOT too look at them for now.
LL
Ox:
I dont know why, but this sorta made me giggle…I really DO like DIRECT interactions (snort, snork, giggle)
“You can keep on asking these same questions over and over and rephrasing them and asking them again, but the answer is always ***always****going to be the same.”
Again…LL and OX:
Thank you…I dont usually need to debate things on here. Just have my ‘thoughts’ validated…
Dear R-Babe,
Glad I gave you a giggle and a snort, snork! LOL I get them from time to time here myself….but things are NOT going to change as far as he is concerned. He will continue to be what he IS and that’s all he is going to be, that’s all he CAN be, and that’s NOT gonna change.
The “Bargaining” phase is part of the GRIEF PROCESS, you can google “Elizabeth Kubler-Ross” for some more information about the grief process….and when you get into that “what could I have done differently” or “what /why this or that” phase, just STOP what you are doing when you recognize what you are doing, and say to yourself.
“I AM BARGAINING RIGHT NOW, and nothing I do or say is going to change the past. The past is past. I don’t need to understand any more about it, it is what it IS. I can let this go and move on to taking care of me.”
Go to Dr. Kubler-Ross’s writings on GRIEF PROCESS because that is what we are doing as we heal. We are GRIEVING over the LOSS of the “dream” relationship we THOUGHT we had, just as if there had been a death in the family. The LOSS is real, the relationship we had is NOT….not like we thought anyway. Not two sided.
Loss is loss and GRIEF is GRIEF no matter what the loss is, and the BIGGER THE PERCEIVED LOSS the bigger and more painful the grief is.
But it all must be PROCESSED THE SAME….and it takes time, and it is not 1-2-3-4 but 1-4-2-3-2-3-1-4-2-3- and so on, like a roller coaster, but eventually you will come to ACCEPTANCE and stay there. Accepting what IS. Being OK with what is. Just keep on putting one foot in front of the other and you will get there Babe! (((hugs))))
Hello all”I’m back again after going back to P and now in NC again. I just have such a hard time convincing myself that he is a P. But I’m here”. Anyway, in January I told him I missed him. He was very excited to hear that and we met for dinner. At the dinner when talking about us he brought up that he thought we should go on a little trip together. A cruise. I asked him if he could afford doing that and paying me his payment for the motorcycle I purchased. He said, “never mind I don’t need to go anywhere.” (I bought a motorcycle that he finally agreed to make payments for. I received the first payment last month and will receive payments for the next year)
My problem? Believing he is a Psychopath?!?! He is manipulative, but in a way that makes you feel sorry for him and want to do things for him. During our relationship (5 months into it) He lost $1400 at casino. That time he asked me for money so he could pay for bills. (He was in prison for 7 years for theft/swindle and his ex mother in law bought a home he is making payments on. He didn’t want her to know about this) I gave that money to him. When I asked him why he did it”he wanted to impress my family at wedding dance. 3 weeks later after hernia surgery he was losing hours at work and asked me for $1700 to make his bills and said it would give him a buffer. He sent that request in a lengthy email. I said, “what if I told you no?” He said, “well, I didn’t see THIS coming!”
He always said things to me like I made him feel “safe” and “comfortable” and that he loved me more than he’s ever loved anyone in his lifetime.
Anyway, I missed him terribly. At our first dinner (2 months after breakup) I asked how many women he slept with while we were apart. He said 2. He didn’t ever seem to lie. He was always up front with me about things. Even early in our relationship he told me about his prison time, a child he gave up rights to”.everything. He didn’t seem to lie to me. We got back together but I was wishy/washy. I loved him and wanted to be with him, then I told him I couldn’t. That went on for a few weeks. After that he separated himself from me and said he couldn’t do the flip flop thing and was afraid of falling more in love and being left. He finally gave in to my request at trying one more time”.but he called me and talked for 1 hour about all the junk he is going through with his ex and his ex mother in law. He even mentioned that before he just got his new job, he was thinking of leaving to move to another state. (and leave his 10 year old daughter behind”she doesn’t listen to him and misbehaves. Can you believe that from a 10 year old?) Then when we talked about us he said we should maybe meet for dinner now and then”talk”go to a movie or whatever. Yesterday, I asked him if he was seeing someone else. He said, “why do you ask me that? It makes me uncomfortable.” Finally after I asked again he said he has deep feelings for 2 people. I told him that this isn’t the “bachelor” and I wouldn’t be one of two. He said that he was sorry that I felt this way. I think he was thinking we could be friends and do things together. I can’t do that with him.
I went a little nuts. OK”crazy. I called his ex-wife #1. When I called her she knew it was going to be about him. Their child is now 13 and has never had contact with his dad. She told me that in the beginning of their relationship he sent her flowers all the time, bought her tons of jewelry, everything. (That’s the SPATH) He didn’t do those things to me. Actually he held off being more affectionate with me. Her parents paid for them to go on a cruise and paid for lots of things for them. He gambled and had a gambling addiction. That was the main reason she kicked him out. He drained her for over $50,000. She had a small child. When he got a job in a city managing a car place, he lied on resume. He didn’t have GED or any college. He put down that he had college degree. BUT”.he is very intelligent/smart! That confuses me.
He met ex-wife #2 and got her pregnant. They were married 3 years when he went to prison. She divorced him due to money reasons as well. Their daughter was 2. Now that he’s back 1 ½ year later, he wants all the same things”.travel, yada yada. I couldn’t understand how he could buy a $9000 motorcycle from me and not put that kind of money into raising his daughter. He said that his daughter is just fine.
So, with all this knowledge I know that NC is what I need and I need to let go and heal. Easier said than done, isn’t it? I did contact his ex mother in law yesterday and told her about the casino debt and $1700 he asked for. I thought she should know since she’s part of his supply. I begged her not to tell him because I knew he’d be enraged and would call and scream at me. So far so good.
I’ve witnessed his rages at his ex. He called her a f##@.......@ing c### outside when she came over one night. Yelled at the top of his lungs. He says it’s his Italian temper. When we’ve argued he never got that enraged”but it seemed like we would have an argument and then he would change quickly. Argument over, let’s talk about something else and it was like we never had the argument. Weird.
He has always tried to be very nice to me”though everything. He didn’t do the eye stare thing. He does want “things” and “money”. He loves to entertain. What he did do, was stare at the floor at weird times”like next to another woman. He didn’t look directly AT her, just at the floor where she was standing. He didn’t necessarily look at me a lot when he talked. He would periodically, then look other places as he was talking. But he did always have some plan he wanted to do this and that. He always knew that he could make things happen ”“ he’s very smart. He doesn’t like to sit still for long. He goes to the mall with daughter, goes bowling, to movies, you name it. Out to eat”.
So here I sit. He is with another woman. Probably calling her all the things he called me, like honeypie. Riding with her on the bike I paid for. They are doing all these things that we did and here I sit at home. No job due to stress/depression. NO focus except thinking of him 24/7. I don’t enjoy anything. I’ve read everything here and other websites. It seems like my sanity depends on this and only this.
I am going on a little vacation next week to see my daughter. When I get back I plan to visit my doctor and pay whatever I need to so that I can get through the next several months. I cry and cry and have so much anxiety that my hair is thinning so bad and a couple of my teeth have gone bad. I tried Zoloft and that made me feel like I was always spinning. Didn’t like it. I try working out. I’m losing weight like crazy. My body hurts from the tension.
I know that there’s more to it for me to deal with being widowed for 3 years. I have a HARD TIME letting go. (Ox, you know!) I am at a point where I’m so confused with how nice and sweet he was with me, and all the other sordid facts that I know. Cog-dis. I’ve learned it all from reading. I guess I just am asking for your input here on what you’ve read and what you’ve experienced. I dream of a day when I am free from this pain and can laugh and live a somewhat normal life.
Any comments/encouragement/affirmation you give I am seeking that!! THANK YOU!