I was with my sociopathic ex-husband, James Montgomery, for two and a half years. During this time, I knew he was costing me money, but he attributed his lack of business success to “being ahead of his time.” I eventually discovered that he was lying and cheating on me. But although I saw eruptions of anger, my ex was never abusive towards me—nothing like the abuse many of you have endured.
Some sociopaths can treat people reasonably well for an extended period of time, if it suits their purpose. For example, Lovefraud received the following e-mail from a reader:
I was not in a disastrous relationship with my S. Our relationship was less than three years, our marriage less than two, when he openly cheated and decided to leave me, then played games of false reconciliation, which in hindsight were so he could have two sex partners.
The short end of my question is… How do you reconcile the basically happy marriage, the illusion of a man you married with the horrible monster he has become in trying to create turmoil in your life and use your greatest love (your child) to hurt you?
Expressions of love
I’ll get to this reader’s question shortly. But first I want to review some of the information Lovefraud learned in last year’s survey (not the current one) about people involved with individuals who exhibited sociopathic traits. One of the objectives of that survey was to investigate whether and how often sociopaths expressed love.
We asked the question, “Did the individual you were involved with verbally express love or caring to you?”
A total of 85% of all survey respondents said yes. And, when the individuals being described were the spouses or romantic partners of the survey respondents, rather than parents, children or others, 92% of the males and 95% of the females expressed love verbally.
How often did this happen? A total of 44% of survey respondents said the sociopathic individual expressed love daily.
Complete change
The survey also asked the following: “Please provide a brief description of the way the person you were involved with expressed love. How did this change over the course of your relationship?”
Now I’ve been hearing all kinds of stories about the games sociopaths play in relationships for more than five years. Yet some of the answers to this question still made my jaw drop.
A small group of survey respondents reported a complete change of behavior the moment they were committed to the relationship—moved in, married or pregnant. This startling change was reported in reference to 7% of the females and 5% of the males. Here are some of the quotes:
Initially with dates, flowers, gifts and little thoughtfullness’s. After I married him, he said, on the Honeymoon, ‘I can stop acting now.’ I thought that he was joking. I later learned he did not do jokes.
From very loving to cold indifference…started right after we were married — The change was startling — cold, distant, indifferent, condescending, mean spirited, accusatory — self righteous, irresponsible
It changed the minute we got married. Then he owned me you see, I was nothing to him after he lured me in! All he wanted was MONEY!
In the beginning of the relationship (before marriage) he was loving, caring, could not do enough for me. Called me his soul mate, his true companion in life. This continued until the day I married him, within hours after the wedding ceremony his personality shifted. It was as if I had dated and fell in love with one person, but married someone I was completely unfamiliar with, he was a stranger to me in all ways.
Doesn’t exist
So, back to our reader’s question, “How do you reconcile the basically happy marriage with the horrible monster he has become?”
The man this reader saw during the happy part of the marriage did not exist. It was an act, a charade, a mirage that the sociopath kept going until it no longer served his purpose. The real man is the horrible monster.
Great advice here everyone! I am learning so much, but could use some advice myself.
After 4 weeks of NC, my Ex-P pocket-dialed me on the 17th. I could hear him and some woman talking. Anyway, I was feeling kind of smart-assy, so I dialed him back and thanked him for the insight. (I really couldn’t hear much of anything). Long story, short, he told me that he was at a party, and that my number was on his phone because he dialed earlier, but hung up before the call went through. Months ago, we had made plans for this day, and were supposed to go away for the weekend. He “just kept thinking about me and where he was supposed to be that night and was lonely and depressed.” So he went out and, “for the first time, used alcohol as a crutch.” I emailed him the next day and told him to remove my number from his phone to avoid this problem in the future.
Well, this break of NC now has me back to square one mentally. He called, and I spoke to him on the phone and told him that I think he has a personality issue, and that maybe he’s always been unhappy. I even sent him a link for a personality disorder test. He took it and emailed me the results which stated that he rated high in: Paranoid, Antisocial, Narcissistic, Histrionic, and Obsessive Compulsive Disorders.
My questions are: Can anyone, especially someone who lives such a seemingly “normal” life possess all of these disorders, and why would he be so open with me as to send me the results?
Is there some sort of continuum for all of these disorders, or is Antisocial Disorder full-blown and unchangeable?
He says that he really wants to be a happy person, but he doesn’t know what that is or how to get there. He also says that he will show these results to his therapist to see if will give him any epiphanies.
Do you think that it’s really possible that he wants to change, or is he just trying to lure me back in to being his source?
Other than the pocket-dial and returning an item (which he placed on my car last week, he seems pretty respectful of my desire for NC. I know he wants to be my friend (at least), but I also know that I need to stay away, and that he is toxic for me. It’s hard to reconcile all of this with my desire to help someone to change if they really want to. Any insight from you all would be greatly helpful as I feel my resolve slipping.
I’m back on day 2 of NC.
Dear Fooledme2wice,
Darling, does it matter if on a P-scale of 1 to 10 (one being BAD and 10 being HORRIBLE serial killer) what difference does it make if he is a 1 or a 9 or a 10? IN EITHER CASE, HE IS NOT GOING TO BE GOOD FOR YOU.
QUIT BARGAINING with yourself, quit bull shitting yourself in other words–tell me again WHY you came here to this site (LF) with a name like “Fooled me twice?” BECAUSE HE FOOLED YOU, right?
The worst thing we can do for ourselves is LIE TO OURSELVES and stay in DENIAL that maybeeeee just MAYBEEEEE HE MIGHT BE TRYING TO CHANGE….so what if he is trying to changeeeee, do you really care? Do you want that kind of troubled relation-SHIT with someone who NEEDS TO CHANGE THAT MUCH
Who is that DISHONEST?
Come on now!!!! BOINK!!!! BOINK!!! You get two hits with the cyber skillet for that one! You KNOW BETTER!!!! So back to NC, and STAY NC—–because every time you break it you will go back into the PAIN…THE DOUBT, the misery of wondering and the BS of it all.
Come here BEFORE you even think about contacting him or letting him contact you. BLOCK his number, e mail, and texts. TAKE CONTROL back of your life! It is YOUR CHOICE!!!! (((hugs))) Now go put an ice pack on your head! LOL
♡Thanks! You’re right.
I guess I just needed the whack on the head! I’m very glad you’re here!
I won’t go back for a third torture session.
Foolme2wice,
Go back and read my post a few back about what happened when I broke no contact…I wouldn’t be surprised if he pocket dialed you just to torture you mentally so that you would hear him talking with someone else. It worked..he got your attention..he triggered you to react. He knows that he can still get a reaction out of you and he loves it because he still has that control over you. The worst thing is when you ignore them…they cannot stand being ignored so they always do stuff like that on purpose…even if they claim it was an accident. I hear the same thing from my spath..he wants to be happy and satisfied blah blah blah… I have gone back for way more than 3 torture sessions…and no matter how much he has cried, made promises, swore on his life and my own that he has changed he never has. He even agreed to go to counseling with me months back bc he wanted to get better…he said it would help him and help us…guess what…he lied to the counselor too…the whole time we were in counseling he was still cheating on me. It is all just a sick twisted game. I know it is hard. Trust me I do. I am no better…I can give the advice to others…but can I take my own advice? I don’t know. I am weak but I will try my best. I have not heard from him in 24 hours and he sent a text a bit ago that said…sorry…my phone was dead up until 10 mins ago. I needed a new battery. And then another…I did not cycle or relapse if that is what you think (bc now he is playing along with me and agreeing that he has a problem..he knows that will keep me around if he promises me that he will get help bc he knows it gives me just a bit of hope that he can be fixed..this time instead of a counselor he promised that he will go to a psychiatrist)…and then a call…and then another text..wanting me to just let him know if I was ok. OK…if he cared if I was ok..he would have used somebody elses phone to call. He cares so much now if I am ok…but what about the last 24 hours??? He does not have the only cell phone in the USA. If he was so concerned that something happened to me…don’t you think he would keep calling or call one of my friends or my mother even? Nope..bc he doesn’t really care…it is just a game. So he can run off and screw whatever and then come right back to me…his main player and try to make me believe him again. I know he was with someone…obviously he was…but he will still try to use some stupid excuse. Why? because they like to tell the most outrageous lies and they get pleasure out of it when they get us to believe them because that means that they have the control of us and it is all about control for them. He doesn’t give a $hit if I am ok…he is the one that makes me not be ok…and he never cares when he is doing it. He likes to create the problem and then be my “savior” after the fact and make it all better. then he does it again. And…they always want to stay..just friends…they always have to leave a little opening back in. I don’t know your whole situation…but from what I have read on this site through the months..they all pretty much seem to read from the same manual. Good luck to you and your no contact. I am not going to lie…I don’t know if I can do it but I hope you can. I have lived for over 3 years with this hell…I am tired of it but I am used playing the game that I will never win..it is an addiction for me now.. so I have some real hard work cut out for me and am going to need to see a counselor for a very long time. Don’t let yourself get to the place where I am. It is not a healthy way to live. No contact is so hard but it works best if you block his number, block his email address, block him from facebook, etc. Even then…he may find a way through…mine would just create a new email address to send from that was not blocked or send a text to my phone from some computer website. He always found a way through anyway which always made NC so hard for me. 🙁 Please try. If you don’t hear from him…you will probably sit there and wonder…why am I not hearing from him? And…it will bother you. Sometimes…if you are good enough at no contact…they will actually get bored and move on..and in that case…you will probably feel like you want to trigger him b/c how dare he put you through what he did and then not beg for your forgiveness anymore. It is just so complicated and such a sick twisted game…please be strong enought to go NC and not let his little “triggers” like “accidental pocket dialing” trigger you. Hope this helps you to want to stay NC… They will do awful things…and then lie…and every time they lie…it is usually a lie that will make you think..well…I guess that could be true…what if he really is telling the truth this time and I don’t believe him? They will do whatever they can and say whatever they can to make you believe the lies. Well…it might soundddd like it could be true…but..nope..it’s not. It is just another lie.
Dear Mending,
You talk about wondering if you are strong enough, etc.
KEEP IN MIND, THIS IS A CHOICE FOR YOU…..if you want to be strong enough you WILL BE strong enough. You ARE strong enough. Just as he has a choice to cheat/lie or not, he does what he really wants to do, and so do you.
So, if you REALLY WANT to get away from him and to stop the pain, YOU CAN CHOOSE TO DO SO, AND DO IT.
It may be difficult but you can do it.
I just quit smoking a year or so ago (I actually don’t remember when) but in the past when I would “try to quit” I ALWAYS knew in ythe back of my mind that I would “fail”—and I kept saying I would TRY TO QUIT—this time I SAID I WILL QUIT and I DID QUIT.
Of course it was difficult, and even now I sometimes have a desire to smoke a cigarette, but I WILL NOT ALLOW MYSELF TO DO SO. It is a CHOICE I have—to do what is good for me or to give in to a craving that I KNOW IS BAD FOR ME….it is MY CHOICE. I will make the CHOICES that I know are good for me, the same way if I had a small child that was crying and wanting to eat poison I would not allow the child to do so no matter how much they cried and whined, because I would take care of my child because I would love it. I also must CARE FOR MYSELF just as much and NOT ALLOW MYSELF TO DO THINGS I KNOW ARE BAD FOR ME.
You can do what you set out to do, you ARE STRONG if you want to be. It is YOUR choice. (((hugs))))
Dear Mending,
Thanks for your advice. If your Spath does not live near you now, maybe it will be easier for you to stay NC. 24 hours is a good start!
I honestly know that, like you, I am addicted to my Spath, but logically, I know I have to stay away. A huge problem for me is that I live in a very small enclave within a major metropolis. I let him into my friend circle, and he wants to stay there. (None of them knew we were dating, since we were both at the end of a divorce from a 20 year marriage and did not want the gossip.) I think that his desire to stay friends with me has more to do with preventing his boredom by allowing him to stay in the circle, than about wanting me. We both find out everything that’s going on with the other, without asking or wanting to know. So far, he has stayed away from the regular social meetings (to respect my NC). I honestly know it bothers him the most when I ignore him right in front of his face. I am going to have to be really strong to avoid showing him any weakness, because I know that it’s just a matter of time before he thinks enough time has passed, and it’s OK for him to start appearing at group functions again.
I’m pretty sure that he’s got a young girfriend already. She always posts clues in her FB profiles, like his arms, with him cropped out, or a photo of some gift that resembles his usual MO.(And, of course, I still look-duh!) I’m pretty sure that he’s told her about me, and that’s why she’s not blatant about rubbing it in my face. If she’s willing to play his game, maybe he’s found a keeper. I’m not willing, but I know in reality, unless I sell my house and move (not likely in this economy), I’m going to have to be strong and come up with a game plan of my own. It’s so frustrating and so surreal to me to have ended up in this situation. I really thought I had found “the one,” and that life was going to be easier after my divorce!
You sound like an intelligent woman who also knows what to you should do. Personally, I found that if I keep myself really busy and overbooked, it’s a lot easier to forget about him. They really are so supremely creepy. I think that we have such a tough time healing because we refuse to think that there can be such liars and manipulators in the world. It’s just not how our brains work, and we can’t logically fathom that they really exist (and that we fell for them). I wish you, me, and everyone else the best of luck in avoiding these creeps, keeping NC, and getting our power back. I bought some books on the subject today. Hopefully that will help. Again, thank you for your post!
Damn it.
**sigh**….it’s a choice for me to be on this blog too, right Ox? I think there should be a support group for LF addicts lol!
Naw….Ya know, I was going to CHOOSE not to respond to this mending, Fooled, but…..it’s pulling on my heart strings….so I’m CHOOSING to respond in hopes that it will help.
Mending….what I see in your last post is a sense of hopelessness, of teetering back and forth between being a victim or transitioning to being a survivor. I’m choosing not to approach you with something that could further cause you pain, but more so encourage you to walk out of the victim state. Ox is right that it’s a choice. Sometimes, even recognizing that when you’re in the midst or hurting really bad, feels very defeating, almost hurts more, but doesn’t the truth do that sometimes? 🙂
You said you moved out of state. You’ve put distance between you and your spath. That was a great move on your part. He didn’t pocket call you “by accident”, he did it on purpose. And like a pavlov’s dog, you responded to that. It WAS a choice and given that you’ve already been very wounded by this man, have taken the great steps you have to REMOVE YOURSELF from the situation, what were ya thinkin girl? Sure wish I could MOVE away from my situation, however, that’s not realistic for me. You’re in a GREAT place right now.
Secondly, CHANGE YOUR EMAIL ADDRESS! I have no idea how he could possibly get your new address unless there’s a key logger on your computer or something. Also change your phone number. Problem solved. If you’ve moved away from him and changed EVERYTHING, he wouldn’t be able to bother you.
I want to share this with you as this is something that I see. I do not lack compassion at all for you, Mending, but I just have to say it: I think, somewhere in your mind, you were still HOPING he might contact you. Been there, done that, even with all the good choices you’ve made, moving being one of them, you didn’t prevent further contact with changing numbers or emails and MEANING it. Know why I believe that? Because when he “pocket called” you CALLED HIM BACK. Been there,done that too.
It’s hard for me not to feel frustrated when I read your post here and see that there is some denial and bargaining going on, as well as this sort of illusive resolution in that you may not be able to get past this. That’s just nonsense you tell yourself. DENIAL/BARGAINING. Having said that Mending, if you’re not ready to let his ass go, guess what? You could have moved two THOUSAND miles away and it wouldn’t matter, you’d go back or you’d talk to him. You’re NOT HELPLESS!!!! It is PAINFUL to get out,but once you do it and STAY OUT BARRING ANY CONTACT FROM HIM WHATSOEVER, things WILL get better. They WILL GET BETTER, but not while you keep entertaining his heaping piles of bullshit that you’re happy to have dumped all over you with talking to this man, not changing your number and NOT changing your emails. The ONLY thing that would be productive (on top of changing those things) is to tell him LEAVE ME ALONE. PERIOD. SAY NO MORE, change the rest!
It really IS up to you. And no one can make you do it before you’re READY too. NC COMPLETELY, is really the only way. I’m not going to sit here and give you PERMISSION to indulge yourself with this man, remain a victim by choice, by not insisting upon the benefits of NC, BUT i will tell you that I think a lot of us here went back MULTIPLE times….and I did it too. I did exactly what you’re doing. Ask yourself why you can’t let this man go in EVERY area of your life. It’s not about him,it’s about you. He’s a sleeze bag and he’s playing you like a fiddle, DON”T LET HIM.
Fooled, I have to tell ya, that’s the BEST I’ve heard a spath attempt to do to suck you back in. I’m curious as to why you’re indulging your ex on any level as well? God, they’re good. You gave him information to BAIT you with. Why did you tell him he has a PD??? Fooled, he’s loving this challenge and you gave him a good one! Lol! Wow. Amazing. They take what we tell them and USE IT TO BAIT US, dear! I think it’s often spoken here and has been in the past, it doesn’t matter if the man even has “traits”, he’s bad news and just as destructive. Google Sociopaths and change. I read some pretty interesting articles when I did that. The more you read, the more you’ll being to understand that change is impossible for them. I don’t know how many articles you’ve read here, but the one’s I think by Steve Becker are particularly good.
Hang in there ladies. It really is up to you both what you choose to do,but if you can white knuckle it awhile and keep telling yourselves that he is PATHOLOGICAL and CANNOT CHANGE….whatever you gotta do to get through the first several months of NC.
It is an addiction. I think both of you are strong enough to overcome it when you’re ready too. I believe that for everyone. It’s up to them to believe it for themselves.
HUGS!!!!
LL
Dear LL,
It IS another addiction to come here to LF, but a good one! It’s funny that you would say that my Spath had the best attempt you’ve seen to lure me back in. He once told me that he recently took a problem-solving test for a high-level job, and that his score was the top score the tester had ever seen! I know I’m up against a pro. LOL!
I’m up to the challenge. I just need to learn the rules better!
Thanks for your input.
Great post, LL. It’s so hard to keep away from LF, isn’t it? lol
Guys, we are ALL bigger than our addictions. I have tried for the last few years to give up overeating. Granted, I’m not overweight, but as I’ve gotten older, I have had a little bit of a spare tire that I couldn’t get rid of. I “tried” and “tried” but I’d always cave and have something fattening. It’s been a battle with myself for a few years.
Then I decided to go to Costa Rica on May 1 of this year. Well, you can’t wear body trimmers, girdles, or even t-shirts with sleeves there. It’s all swimsuits and shorts. So I DECIDED to get rid of my spare tire. I just decided what I wanted – and that was to look good on Costa Rica. At that moment, my willpower became bigger than my addiction. It has been 6 weeks now. Even though I’ve slipped a few times, I have stuck to the diet, lost most of the spare tire, and toned up. Day after day and night after night, through a sheer act of will, I stick to my low/no carb diet. Sure, I’d love to go out and have a hamburger. Or a milkshake. Once I DECIDED, it became much easier. I also know of lifelong chain smokers who just decided to quit one day and never looked back.
The mind is very powerful. Think about what you want. You want a good relationship. You want mental clarity. You want peace and happiness. If you really want those things, you can DECIDE through your own will to let go of all the things that are in the way. As far as I’ve ever seen, a spath is in the way of every life-affirming goal anyone could ever have.
LL, oxy, and foolme2wice…
Thank you all…I am sad that I seem so impossible and so confused. 🙁 LL said..”I want to share this with you as this is something that I see. I do not lack compassion at all for you, Mending, but I just have to say it: I think, somewhere in your mind, you were still HOPING he might contact you.” You are right… and I am def still denial/bargaining… I know it is my choice but I just don’t know why I choose to keep doing this to myself. I just want him to feel guilt and feel bad about what he does to me but I know he just can’t. He can’t feel what I want him to feel and he can’t be who I ever want him to be and I don’t know why I choose to not stop this. I guess that my relationships before him were bad too…2 long term relationships…1 where I was called fat all of the time…I was told things like don’t sit down bc you look thinner when you stand up. I was a bit overweight at that time…but I left him and lost it all…but even now…I still think I am overweight. He completely beat me down and killed my self esteem. 2nd relationship…He had a rage problem…wanted to beat the dogs and he drank too much and yelled all the time and punched things… I left that. I moved to another state to start fresh and for a good job…and I met my spath. The good times with him were better than I had ever had in a relationship but the bad times..much worse than I had ever had. I had never been cheated on before. When things started to go bad I was already completely head over heels in love with him like I had never been with anyone else. I guess since all my relationships were crappy…I always just pray for him to change and get help so he can consistently be the good guy all the time. I obviously have real problems now from all of this. I act like the victim bc I feel like the victim…I never did anything to deserve any of this…I treat people well. Too well..and I can’t understand why these men are always so awful to me. I never had a problem leaving the first 2 b/c they were consistently bad. They never showed me “amazing” like this guy has and all I wanted was to have that back…with him. I would rather him cranked me in the face than do what he did to my emotions. I would have been able to walk away from that a lot easier. I will get better…I know I will. The first step is admitting that I have a problem too.. right? I am admitting it…I know that I am a mess…and I know that everything I do is my choice…so I am choosing to write here instead of text him…and I am going to a counselor this week…I am trying to do things to fix myself bc I know I have an addiction and I just can’t seem to stop. I am also so scared to meet somebody else…I was out the other night and a man that I was talking to told me that I am beautiful…but then he said…that it was very clear though that I had a real confidence issue. First of all…who says that sort of thing to someone that they don’t know..but anyway…who else is ever going to want me after everything I have gone through??? I actually thought I looked nice that night and have no idea how he picked up on my self esteem problem. I will question the $hit out of everyone and analyze every word they use…if they say..we’ll see..or maybe or possibly..I will freak out. I will eventually get over him..but I don’t know how I am ever going to get over what he did to me. My brain is wired to think a different way now than it was before. I am honestly just so drained I am out of words. I choose to overcome this one way or another. I want the rest of my life to be happy and I know that only I can make that happen. And..I am not trying to make anybody feel bad for me…I guess I just wanted to explain why I think I ended up falling for all of this. I had fooled myself into thinking I was a lot stronger than I was…it obviously didn’t take much to break me down again. The counselor that I am going to has a lot of experience with this type of situation…so I am hoping for the best. 🙂 Thank you everybody for being so honest with me.