I was with my sociopathic ex-husband, James Montgomery, for two and a half years. During this time, I knew he was costing me money, but he attributed his lack of business success to “being ahead of his time.” I eventually discovered that he was lying and cheating on me. But although I saw eruptions of anger, my ex was never abusive towards me—nothing like the abuse many of you have endured.
Some sociopaths can treat people reasonably well for an extended period of time, if it suits their purpose. For example, Lovefraud received the following e-mail from a reader:
I was not in a disastrous relationship with my S. Our relationship was less than three years, our marriage less than two, when he openly cheated and decided to leave me, then played games of false reconciliation, which in hindsight were so he could have two sex partners.
The short end of my question is… How do you reconcile the basically happy marriage, the illusion of a man you married with the horrible monster he has become in trying to create turmoil in your life and use your greatest love (your child) to hurt you?
Expressions of love
I’ll get to this reader’s question shortly. But first I want to review some of the information Lovefraud learned in last year’s survey (not the current one) about people involved with individuals who exhibited sociopathic traits. One of the objectives of that survey was to investigate whether and how often sociopaths expressed love.
We asked the question, “Did the individual you were involved with verbally express love or caring to you?”
A total of 85% of all survey respondents said yes. And, when the individuals being described were the spouses or romantic partners of the survey respondents, rather than parents, children or others, 92% of the males and 95% of the females expressed love verbally.
How often did this happen? A total of 44% of survey respondents said the sociopathic individual expressed love daily.
Complete change
The survey also asked the following: “Please provide a brief description of the way the person you were involved with expressed love. How did this change over the course of your relationship?”
Now I’ve been hearing all kinds of stories about the games sociopaths play in relationships for more than five years. Yet some of the answers to this question still made my jaw drop.
A small group of survey respondents reported a complete change of behavior the moment they were committed to the relationship—moved in, married or pregnant. This startling change was reported in reference to 7% of the females and 5% of the males. Here are some of the quotes:
Initially with dates, flowers, gifts and little thoughtfullness’s. After I married him, he said, on the Honeymoon, ‘I can stop acting now.’ I thought that he was joking. I later learned he did not do jokes.
From very loving to cold indifference…started right after we were married — The change was startling — cold, distant, indifferent, condescending, mean spirited, accusatory — self righteous, irresponsible
It changed the minute we got married. Then he owned me you see, I was nothing to him after he lured me in! All he wanted was MONEY!
In the beginning of the relationship (before marriage) he was loving, caring, could not do enough for me. Called me his soul mate, his true companion in life. This continued until the day I married him, within hours after the wedding ceremony his personality shifted. It was as if I had dated and fell in love with one person, but married someone I was completely unfamiliar with, he was a stranger to me in all ways.
Doesn’t exist
So, back to our reader’s question, “How do you reconcile the basically happy marriage with the horrible monster he has become?”
The man this reader saw during the happy part of the marriage did not exist. It was an act, a charade, a mirage that the sociopath kept going until it no longer served his purpose. The real man is the horrible monster.
My ex was never abusive, in fact if anything he came over as a coward. The alarm bells started ringing at the times he seemed completley unmoved by any kind of suffering. It was only when I was confronted by his other woman that I realsied he was a total fraud. Even though I cursed and abused him, he was not angry or abusive to me or the other woman. He was calm and cool and seemed unable to comprehend that he was doing anything wrong. Despite being reconciled with my husband, he continued to text me and said things like” we can still be friends” or “I’ll pay you back all the money”. Totally insane responses considering the situation.
Swallow…same story here. It was absolutely crazy! He acted more like a child leaving home to move in with his girlfriend than a husband leaving his wife. He was never abusive, either, and was very much a coward…almost child like. If something went “bump” in the night, it was I who had to investigate…he was too afraid. How in the world did I ever allow myself to get involved with such a poor excuse for a man? Mercy!
Some people here report great sex as part of the love bombing but some people even go to the extent to fake sexual problems as part of the pity play.
This is my first post, and first I want to thank you all for your brilliant insights.
The discussion about control/sex hit home. For a long time, sex was great, and then I found myself freezing up. I could no longer respond unless I was (momentarily) in control. And I blamed myself! I see so clearly now that my lack of response was a healthy protective mechanism, NOT a deficiency.
Here’s one of many ironies: I faked orgasms to protect his feelings, and I must have been a good actor because he later told me that he was “jealous” of my experience, and resentful that I was having “more fun” than he was.
Another realization: Even during the good years, sometimes lovemaking would last way longer than I wanted it to. He prided himself on “making sex a creative act”. He put me down for not devoting as much effort to making sex new and exciting. He’d tell me to go read some sex books so that it wouldn’t get boring. (Personally, I don’t want someone using techniques they learned in books). Ugh.
My god, i had the feeling he was jealous of me having more fun, too. And it is when he started becoming kind of controling and didn’t want to come. How can be these creatures so idiot? 😀
Responding to the initial subject post, I HAD to train myself to stop reflecting on the memories of the person I fell in love with because as we all know, they are not real. It is an illusion, a dream, and that person is never to return because they were not real in the first place. I refer to my spath’s con’s as his academy-award winning performances. He had targeted me, watched me, tested me (when you pass the “test” they know they’ve found a “winner”) and it took a while but I realize the exact incident that it was. If you can escape before your pass their “test”, they move on. In my case it happened to be that we had made plans for christmas day, he had stayed over on christmas eve and in the morning, got dressed and was ready to walk out the door without a word, I asked him when he was picking me up, he looked at me with this blank stare and said “what? I decided I (not we) wasn’t going, I’m just going to stay home today”? I was in shock as the holidays used to be important to me, spending them with someone you care about, (no longer, he has ruined that for me) and I just let him walk out the door. I was so furious I called him on his cell and told him to get back to my house and get his **** out and stay out of my life. I was done and never wanted to see him again. I went somewhere in my car, and when I got back, he was sitting in my driveway, crying. Apologizing, you know the big act…well, THAT incident was “the test”. I gave in and he knew he had won. Now, if I ever mention that incident, he goes into a huge rage. It took me a long time to assess what made him determine that I was his next “make” but I realized that was it. I will also say that he became much more attentive to the relationship when he learned what I was getting in my divorce (from public records and doing an illegal credit check on me thru his employer without my knowledge or authorization). And like many of you, he changed drastically, almost overnight, following the marriage ceremony. I caught him the week after we were married in my garage with his father, destroying both my and my ex-husbands things, and when I called him on it, he looked up with these big puppy dog eyes and said “I thought I was helping you out by cleaning out the garage”. I told him I could take care of cleaning my own garage, that I had lived 42 years without his domestic assistance and that I didn’t need his help. I was an independent woman before he entered my life but he took control, defiling and destroying everything I had worked for. He wanted what i had, but not the responsibility that went with it, he just wanted the pleasure of taking it away from me. He had intense rage about the fact that his first divorce rendered him homeless and all of his belongings in one black plastic bag, he wanted revenge. Which is exactly what he moved into my home with. His targeting me would get him cash that he needed AND the joy of watching someone suffer. Summing it up in one sentence he said: “I only married you to use the legal umbrella of marriage to steal from you”. And as we all know, our marital in-justice system allows them to accomplish this with no penalty. As my attorney said, if they were our business partners, they would be prosecuted and jailed for what they have done (financial abuse, fraud, theft, etc. ). However in a marriage, the courts look at it as both partners as having control of their own lives in a marriage. We all know that if one keeps secrets or lives a secret second life, the other partner can do very little about it. The saying “you can’t teach an old dog new tricks”, the red flags never change, they just morph. We have to learn to see around (in, out, upside down, behind and through) the morphs. It is an exhausting and draining way to exist.
This website contains information that is important for anyone to know, not just folks who have already come into contact with a romantic relationship with a sociopath, a narcissist, a psychopath. What is the real difference in any of these personalities? Personally, they all seem – to me – to be exactly the same in many regards. I wish that Donna would begin to discuss all aspects of sociopathic relationships…not just male-female but also females whose “best (female) friend” is a sociopath, etc. There seem to be so many of this type of personality today. I’m in my 60’s and do not remember these people when I was much younger…say before the ages of 30-40. In the past 10-15 years, I’ve had at least 8 to 10 people in my life who fit this description. These people have either been significant others (boyfriends, fiances, possibly a husband), one “best friend”, employers, supervisors/managers, and a CEO. Why would there be so many of this personality type in my life? and in the world today? They seem to be so slick that they slink through my life incognito until suddenly, the awareness hits me “Oh, no! I’ve been completely duped…AGAIN!” My latest relationship with a fiance was a disaster. Thankfully, he did not do financial harm, but he was very, very abusive verbally, emotionally, mentally – not physically. He definitely seemed to enjoy his role. Finally, I left him after 7 years. Lately, I’ve realized that I need to completely cut off all ties with him. We currently are “just friends” and see each other for lunch, short trips, etc. Now that I don’t live with him, he has backed off considerably. But his family is a piece of work. I just blocked his niece on Facebook. I need to block all of them, including him, grieve my losses, and move on. The hardest part is that I have no family left, he was like my family, even tho he is an spath. This part has been very, very difficult to let go of.
I am just now realizing that even though I thought I was at peace now that my ex-spath left, I am finding myself still very disturbed and disgusted, feeling hatred towards him. I am bracing myself for a full-blown aftermath reaction to creep up on me and slam me. I read one post mentioning about not knowing whether or not to put up pictures in the home. It hit me hard after reading something that seems to be so little could invoke such sick emotions. In the 5 years I was with him, we moved 9 times. He would never be outwardly, verbally abusive, just the opposite, sickeningly sweet, concerned but would leave hints all over the place to make me feel very inadequate, dysfunctional, lazy, because why??? I didn’t snap too every time we moved and have the new place thrown together in a day. While he sat on his “bounce a quarter off his butt” saying, baby, get me a drink, or baby talking. Yeah, he described his butt as being one you could bounce a quarter off.
How the hell did it get and stay so rock hard when all I saw him do was sit around when we were at home??? Must be the “secret sex life” on the side.
The facade and charade slipped when I started to insist that I knew he would lie and shared what I knew his motives were.
We were both in our 40’s when we remarried. He has a rich mom and daddy and they refuse to come visit. Yet they are always pacifying him on his weekly phone call to them.
He married me as a way to try to regain his parents trust. He wanted them to be convinced he changed, settled down, came to his senses or found some.
I slowly started to see right through him. He hated me for it. Even though part of his sales pitch to me while dating was that he wanted so much to be good and normal. That he needed my help, I was a good woman, blah blah blah.
He left here leaving behind unpaid rent, bills which I was not at all surprised.
They are truly of the Devil himself. God’s word even blatantly tells us we are either a Child of God or of the Devil. He is…..
Skylar, I have met a guy who was into SM too. It didn’t seem like it was the weird sex that he “liked” , but the “controlling” part. As you said, your SP enjoyed “organizing” the sexual orgies and manipulating or screenwriting every move and scene to take place. And all for his home entertainment later? ( hidden camera ) You said you found yourself living your life to “please” him. This is the norm for a SP into SM. This guy was the Dom and looks like there were plenty of Subs in his life to dominate.
I was a nice woman, loved God, went to church, married with good kids, and was playing a online game ( WoW ) with my sons and husband when I “bumped” into this total stranger in the game. I needed help finding a place in the game and this person was nearby and I asked for help. I could never have foreseen what could come of a question to a stranger in an online game, because I had never played a game like this and was totally new. My husband and son had played this game for over a year, and were so excited when I joined them, and only a handful of days later, met this stranger in this game.
Let me tell you….
Online games are chock full of Sociopaths, now I know. Its the best place to live for them; and chat rooms, ( i never visited those places, but heard of them ) In an Online game, the SP can lie, lie, lie. The harmless Banter, turns shockingly sexual quickly . You at first laugh, and think, Wow, what a character! They will help you in a game by giving you lots of things you need, and hang out with you exclusively, until they have you hooked, and then when they think they have you in their grasp, they let go and zoom around visiting their other “hosts”, putting you on hold, and giving you lots of excuses as to why.
My husband “met” this guy as we played this game, and the “friend” I had just made treated my husband differently. He had nothing to do with my son, it was ME that he had targeted. And I was the target. I literally fell into his lap …and all this happened just playing a stupid game online. I am sure with 12 million people playing WoW, that quite a bit of this happens a lot.
Here’s how he sucked me in. First night he kept me up for hours just chatting away. He wanted to know how I felt about things and he’d offer things about himself, and he controlled the convo entirely. I was not used to this kind of fast talker, or controlling person. I was caught off guard, having no experience with this kind of person.
I had experience with other women who wanted to be controlling, and I knew how to deal with that, like from work, or my personal life , like my mom. But not a male. My husband is very quiet and unassuming. So this type of character was a surprise.
He “snatched”me up in this game and took me through all the different places ( graphics are fun ) and helped me get new things for my character. He knew what he was doing, I just thought, ” What a really nice guy! ” Then one night he asked, ” do you ever vent?” I thought, ” Vent?” and he explained its a chat room , if you have headphones, you can plug into a chat room. So he told me to get some headphones and told me how to connect so we could “talk”. He was patient . Looking back, he had a goal. I didn’t know his agenda. Finally we could talk and I could hear his voice. Later I learned this was a fake voice he had made just to hook women with. He sent me a phony picture of himself, and then he said if he sent me a picture , would I send him one of me? He sent me a nude photo. He asked me to take a picture of myself nude and email it to him. I could hear the excitement in his voice. I told him, ” It feels to me like I AM THE GAME for you, and I am the prize you win. ” He never skipped a beat with his reply of ” Of course not! ”
I told him I didn’t have a camera, so he said, lets get you one! I said no thanks. He offered to buy me sex toys online too. He got me introduced to MSN Chat, where he could control the convo there as well. If I talked about my mom or kids, he had the right answers for it. If my husband was upset because I was playing Wow with my new friend, this guy would take it as an opportunity to put my husband down, and feel sorry for me, and give me great ideas on how to put him in his place. He told me how to hide our chats so my husband couldn’t read them if he came around. All this bs was to get “into my panties”, he told me. He tried and tried and said, ” Even if you say NO< I will still be your friend." Then I met some other "friends" of his online, and I noticed they were married too. I also noticed they were wondering who I was, and they asked me all kinds of questions. HE told me he told them we were just friends.
I said, We ARE just friends, what are they?
I began to wonder. As time went by, my life revolved around this guy, and waiting for his wonderful friendly emails, and sometimes he wrote me poems, and then one day, it all stopped. ( he had met a new girl who did what he wanted? )
He quit emailing me, ( some friend ) and he quit playing with me in Wow. I would say hi to him and he would not answer back.
In hindsight, I realize it was all a part of what he liked to do to women, build them up emotionally and then crush the daylights out of them. I found the 2 friends who hung with him and talked to them. One gal left her husband because of this guy! She then found out he had strung her along with the other married lady, and these gals were doing things besides just being friends. The other married lady decided she loved her husband and left the game. I thought about the far reaching affects that one person could have on so many. I got books on sociopaths, and people without consciences. I found this site, Lovefraud.
There are so many out there who have met people like this guy I met.
These people have a need to orchestrate, and control. They make "scripts" for everything. Especially sex. They keep records, pictures, dates, info, files on everyone they encounter, and if possible a "trophy" of their targets, or victims. I shuddered when I spoke to the one woman who's marriage was ruined by this guy. She did many things to please him. He was into SM. He was the dominate in the relationships.
I was so happy I had said no to all his requests, and that he left me alone eventually. I was too boring for him, or I was too rebellious. I eventually figured out what was going on and quit having contact with him. He was able to make new characters and appear as a new person and try to start chatting with me and befriending me again in this game. So I quit the game.
It said, " NO CONTACT" with the SP , and I thank God I was able to do that. I put him on block, everywhere, and I blocked the letters from him with new addresses that I got asking me " What have you done? You just lost the ONE person who understood you more than anyone you'll ever know. Do you realize what you have lost? " ( lol wow huh? )
I found out from his ex girlfriends, and I got a letter from one I didn't know about, but she knew about me, ( he tried to me to talk to him via her letter to me ) and we talked and she too had been married and he came between her and her husband. She was now living alone in a government apartment and he ex husband was remarrying. It was tragic to see all the harm he had done to these women! And this lady, was friends with another lady he had suckered into leaving her husband too. She was living in a home with 2 drunks, in a little room. She had no money and he sent her money all the time because she left her husband and life for him.
The horror for me was after I quit having contact with him, learning about the devastation that could have come to me and my marriage if I had only submitted to his requests. It was a huge battle inside myself.
I do not play any online games, as they quit being games, and became a way to "escape" . Escape from daily drudgery, escape from a normal ( not exciting ) marriage, and from responsibility. I realized I had been living in another world and it had to stop.
I just want to warn people, that online games are a breeding ground for pathological liars, people into S/M relationships, Sexual predators, and just normal everyday people pretending they are young or hot or whatever. Don't bother to delve into these places, its a waste of life.
Skylar, like you said, the things you talked about , my friends talked about he wanted to do with them too. So it can happen even in an online relationship. And people get all caught up in emotions just as if the person was right in your house.
Reading about how the SP starts out calling you " Sweetheart" and ends up calling you " F'ing crazy B*tch from Hell, Die in a fire!" is the normal state for these people.
If you meet one in an online game, Im sorry for you, and hope you quit talking to them. And hope you find your real life again. I have not been playing online for a long time, and I have the life I used to have back. This SP i met, is still playing games and caught up in their drama world of make believe.
I thank God for my reality and ability to resist all that charm and bullsh!t . And now that this all happened ( (I played WoW 2 years!! ) I can tell you I know what to look for in a con. And it does come in handy.
Take care Skylar and remember, its his thing, and not yours, and that's ok. It's not about the sex for you ex friend there, its only about writing scripts for raunchy sex movies.
Take care and glad you learned something from him.
We all learned something from the SP we met.
Now Pass It ON!
I was with my spath 6 years. Eventually I developed a decent relationship with his ex-wife even though his relationship with her was “passive aggressive” to say the least. At times my spath’s son (7 yrs old) was in his care for 2-3 days at a time. During those periods my spath would completely ignore his son. I was there because I could supervise and entertain the boy. My spath pretended to his own family (in another state), some of his closer associates and his ex that he wasn’t “involved” with anyone. I was with him 24/7 BTW! Well, as you might expect, the son would return to his mom talking about what he did with ME (not his dad). His wife knew because I was her son’s “protector” that she might do well maintaining a good relationship with her. I had NO hard feelings for her at all and she felt the same way. She knew I knew that our Spath was a spath, in fact she let me know that their marriage therapist declared him a “psychopath” as did her current therapist! That surprised me as I’d figured that all out without ANY therapist input! Duh!
Anyway- his ex-wife told me that she knew on her honeymoon that who she married was not who she thought he was. She said that right after the ceremony he embarassed her in front of all the guests. She said on the honeymoon he gave her the silent treatment. She confessed that she was “too embarassed” to divorce him right after- though she wanted to. I think her only motivation in being with him was that she was well over 40 and wanted a child. She had 2-3 miscarriages, and ultimately ended up adopting the son. She divorced the Spath shortly thereafter when he started acting physically violent- throwing furniture at her and apparently he couldn’t control his temper.