Many, many people who were romantically involved with sociopaths have told me that the sex was amazing. Earth-moving. The best they ever had. At least, that’s how it was in the beginning, while the sociopath was still reeling them in.
The targets thought this amazing sex was proof of the real connection between themselves and the sociopath, proof that the two of them were wildly, deeply in love.
The truth is that sociopaths are incapable of love. Oh, they’re capable of feeling attraction. And they’re capable of proclaiming love, very convincingly (especially when they’re looking for sex). But they are not capable of genuine concern for another person’s welfare, which is a key component of real love.
So what do sociopaths really want from romantic relationships? Power, control and sex. Often, power and control are more important than sex.
What’s more, some sociopaths find power and control to be sexually exciting.
I experienced this with my sociopathic ex-husband, although I didn’t realize it until long after our marriage was over. When we disagreed, I generally lost, because he was much better at arguing than I was. Of course, he was not interested in coming to a mutually agreeable solution. He just wanted to win, but I didn’t know that at the time.
After the fight, when I had capitulated, my husband wanted sex. At the time, I thought we were making up after arguing. Now, I realize that he had gotten a charge out of exerting power and control over me, and it was a turn-on.
A Lovefraud reader told me that the sociopath she was involved with became sexually excited when she was angry. He demanded sex, and engaging in it when the woman didn’t really want to probably enhanced his sense of power.
Sex with a sociopath isn’t about sharing intimacy or building a connection. It’s about their personal physical release. Or, it’s a means to an end. Sociopaths know that if they can hook their targets sexually, they have a better chance of getting what they want—money, a place to live, or perhaps simply entertainment.
In the end, sex, for a sociopath, is just about domination.
Athena-The Steve Jobs thing about the pic sent chills down my spine when I originally read it this year. I posted about it on the LF Steve Jobs article. I think a lot of people still don’t think Steve Jobs is a Sociopath. He is perceived to be this wonderful man who gave society this brilliant technology. But I think all of the evidence points to the fact that he is. My ex is almost a replica of Steve Jobs. His intelligence, success, even kind of looks like him, sort of. I don’t care how loving his family perceived Steve Jobs. He apparently wore his mask very well. Just like my ex…I just don’t have a good feeling about the guy.
Clair-Thanks for the supportive words.
Oxy- I think that your ex spath BF sounds just like mine. It’s the mask of sanity they are looking for and they get it through the image of a perfect little family. I am going to repeat this to myself all the time to let it really sink in deep down. Thank You!
OxD…you are SPOT-the-heck-ON about the zookeepers being as sociopathic as the exhibits!!! More on this, later, as it has a direct impact upon my life, at the moment – I have no doubt that the exspath comes onto this site to read posts – he was well aware of my attachment to this site when I was trying to manage previous issues.
Having said that, I have had direct contact with prison guards. Some are able to do their jobs and avoid getting caught up in the prison stuff. MOST others are of the same ilk as the inmates. Becoming a prison guard is admitting that someone couldn’t make it to become a cop. Power. Authority. Retribution. Etc. And, the things that they do outside of the prison walls. Talk about “Peyton Place?” Omigod, it’s beyond description, seriously.
I would never have association with a prison guard, official, administrator, parole officer, etc……oh, hell-to-the-no.
Sisterhood, Yes, please do because it is NOT real on their end, and it is important that we know it, not just intellectually but also emotionally and that is teh hardest part.
As for the Steve Jobs thing, didn’t we discuss that in another thread? http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/index.php?s=steve+jobs
…in another thread here people were saying that there IS NO LEVEL OF SOCIOPATHY, THAT YOU EITHER IS ONE OR AIN’T ONE AND I DISAGREE WITH THAT.
First off, that is why Dr. Hare made the Psychopath’s Check list and revised it over and over so that you COULD see the different levels. It is sort of if you think of it like IQ which is on a SCALE from about 65-140 with 100 being in the middle and where most people are, but anything over 75 is considered not retarded, and anything over 110 is considered “bright” someone with a 65 can’t tie their shoes but anyone 75 is considered smart enough to be executed for murder. 125 is considered very bright and 140 is genius.
Now the same thing on the psychopathy scale of 0-40, and they consider for purposes of “definition” that anything over 30 is a psychopath. In prisons though researchers have found that an AVERAGE score of 22 for all inmates is the “norm’ meaning a bunch of bad assed guys are in prison. the “average” score of folks in the general pop is about 4-5 I think. So the prison systems ARE taking a bunch of these guys and locking them up.
At least the violent ones….but there are people who are “HIGH IN PSYCHOPATHIC TRAITS” that wouldn’t “qualify” as a psychopath but would not be someone I’d want to take home as a pet. In fact, if I avoided ALL people who have ever been in prison for ANY reason I would be doing the smart thing because there is a GOOD CHANCE they would score HIGH on the PCL-R and I don’t want ANYTHING to do with anyone who has a score like that.
TS, we posted over each other…yep, I know what you are talking about…I ran into some of them for sure. There was a female major who was farking my son, she was good looking and had obviously gone far in her position for someone in her mid 30s, but why on god’s green earth would such a woman fark an inmate…it was a felony if she got caught! Plus the chance of disease? It makes me sick, but she came into the visiting room and came over to us and you could see the sparks fly between them, he wasn’t lying about what was going on. He of course was proud as a peach and she was pretty obvious…I can’t believe that no other guards knew what was going on.
A few months after that a female office worker and an inmate were killed in a closet, but my son told me that it was not a murder-suicide but a double murder by an officer who was also farking her and caught her doing an inmate as well and killed them both. Frankly I believe my son on that one.
As far as psychopaths guarding psychopaths, who better to guard them?
Dr. Liane Leedom’s ex husband married the prison nurse! What woman would be “stupid” enough to marry an inmate? You would think the very fact he was an inmate would be enough to warn people off but it’s not. I’m not sure if the woman is still with Barry or not, Barry’s been arrested several times since his release for trying to pass himself off as a doctor and get a job as a doctor. LOL.
Ox, I agree with you about the degrees of spathy-ness. I think that’s right on. And they are all individual anyway.
I didn’t know that about Liane Leedom’s ex. Oh my god. How ridiculous.
A zebra doesn’t change his stripes. Ever.
Still, there are so many days when I have this shitty pit in my stomach about what happened. I try to forget it, and just enjoy the people I am currently with. My spath was an ugly, gross piece of shit and I didn’t see it. Crazzzzy.
Athena
callmeathena says:
“BBE! That’s a keeper alright!”
From the wording of his profiles it is a wonder anyone would want to meet him…
So Oxy, do you think my ex shows only some characteristics of Psychopathic traits and isn’t a full fledged Sociopath? I lean towards that explaniation and think that perhaps he goes in and out of treating people badly.
Now here I go, doubting it all over again…What is wrong with me! Ugh!!
Sisterhood,
I think Oxy was talking in general, not specifically regarding your ex.
Full fledged (above 30) means dangerous – life/death dangerous… they don’t always murder, but they have absolutely NO remorse or conscious at all (which is why they’re so dangerous) and hardly even superficial emotions.
A plus 20 is heavy on sociopathic traits – they’re machiavelistic, narcistic and rationalize their misdeeds… they may have more emotions than a full fledged spath, but still shallow.
Love is a very deep emotion. It requires the ability to bond, to take another needs into account, even though they may inconvenience you. Somebody who has 20 points on Hare’s scale, may not be diagnozed a psychopath, but they won’t be able to love, only in a shallow and selfish way. They’re still egotists.
Also, Oxy specifically said, that for us normals (averaging 4-5 score) it doesn’t matter. Such people remain toxic and harmful, and they are toxic and harmful to anyone. Even a non-full fledged sociopath is someone to stay away from and they won’t change either.
I’ve read a book recently where the grades were stark clear: a fictional story based on historical clues… Da Vinci who worked for the papa prince and Machiavelli (who wrote his famous politics book based on this prince) who was a Florence go between to appease that prince. Da Vinci is the idealist who wants to achieve something but totally turns his back from the prince once he witnesses what war is really like and eventually doesn’t finish a lot of his designs in fear how the prince may use them against civilians. Da Vinci stands for us normals. The prince is a full blown psychopath, murdering his own brother in order to be an army commander rather than a cardinal for his father the pope. Machiavelli is in between. He’s close to 20. He doesn’t mind what the prince does on an emotional level, admires him, finds him a genius, until the prince becomes totally paranoid and a danger to Machiavelli himself. Machiavelli helps Da Vinci into getting assignmentt for Florence after the prince’s downfall, but more because he wants to align himself with famous people. He remains married to his wife all his life and does go back home to her, but he cheats her whenever he can. Whenever he goes back to his wife, it’s because of the material things she represents for him. He lusts for other women too, enjoys their company, hopes to conquer them. But love never is in his mind. He’s not as bad a person as the prince, he even does “good”, but when he does “good” it’s because of cowardice and self-preservation. Nor can he fathom Da Vinci really or other people… he doesn’t really understand their emotional drives, and pities them for it. After all, there’s a reason why Florence considered him to be a traitor after many years of service. He was loyal to himself and his admiration for spaths, not to anyone else.
Darwin’smom, you are right on, couldn’t have said it better myself. anyone with a 20 or more is a badddd-ass dude and not someone you would want to take home for a pet. FOR SURE.
That is why I think it is a bad idea to get involved with anyone who has a criminal record worse than jay walking. Matt is a prime example of that. He is a criminal defense attorney (well, he was, now he is a prosecutor) but he got involved with an ex convict and got “screwed, blued and tattoo’d” as we say here in the South!
Look at someone and see if they are dishonest and if they are, then ditch them completely ASAP. Lots of times a good person may be down and out, but they will not be dishonest. And not everyone who is “somewhat” dishonest will be a serial killer. Lots of people will be ‘sightly” dishonest, but why take chances?
To me it is not worthwhile to take a chance with someone who will be dishonest or who is not kind, compassionate, responsible etc. I would rather err on the side of CAUTION than get involved with someone and find out that the signs of dishonesty run deeper than I had thought they did. That’s why I am so dead set against lies and dishonesty.
The only sign that I saw in the minister that turned out to be a pedophile was that he lacked compassion and did not have control of his anger, which I think are things that don’t bode well especially in a person who claims to be a “minister.” The other minister I had problems with displayed narcissism and “mind reading” which did not bode well either…and sure enough, he displayed lack of compassion for me and for my other sons. He was not honest with us either.
My grandfather used to say “a cat that has jumped on to a hot stove will not get on top of a cold one” This is an old saying that means “once burned, twice shy” so if you have been burned by a “stove” you will never trust another “stove” even if it is not “hot”
Darwinsmom-That makes a lot of sense to me I think my ex is more like Machiavelli than the prince. So perhaps he is on the lighter side of spathyness with a whole lot of narcissism
I guess what you are all trying to tell me is that he is someone who can never feel or express authentic love. He is a manipulator who is playing the biggest scam of all on his wife. I actually do feel sorry for her. To be in a marriage that is based on shallow things and emotions rather then the deep healthy emotional bond a husband and wife should have.
So I guess I just need your opinions from what I have told you all. Do you think he is a spath or just a narcissist?