This request always left me at a loss for words. It made me really uncomfortable. Most of the time I would just state basic facts: the city I grew up in, where I went to school, what my profession is. I wasn’t trying to be unfriendly…….I honestly had no idea how to answer this. I only recently realized why this was so difficult for me.
When you are raised by psychopaths, or in a relationship with a psychopath, the lines between their life and yours get blurred. They swallow you up like a sinkhole. Your desires, feelings, goals and interests no longer matter. If the psychopath likes something, you’d better find a way to like it too. If they think something is ridiculous, you’d better feel the same way. Individuality is not tolerated by psychopaths, because that would mean releasing control over you. Sadly, psychopaths simply see other people as vessels to get whatever they want, kind of like using a car to get from Point A to Point B. Then, one of two things happens: either they accomplish what they want and toss you out like yesterday’s trash, or there never is a “Point B” because the psychopath is fixated on controlling your every move. In my case, my parents were the latter.
After you’ve been manipulated by a psychopath for so long, you no longer have an identity. That is exactly how the psychopath wants it. The more they can consume you, the more content they are (as content as a psychopath can be, anyway). Looking back on my life, this “blurring of the lines” became a distinct pattern for me. Once I left my parents’ home and began my life as an adult, I still had no idea who I was. I subconsciously started molding myself to whoever my boyfriend was at the time. If he liked cars, I started reading Hot Rod magazine. If he liked golf, I studied up on bogeys, birdies and eagles. In fact, when I started dating my golf-fanatic husband, I drove the cart, practiced at driving ranges, and watched golf with him every Sunday. I thought I was being a “good girlfriend.” Truth be told, I hated golf. And I still do. But it wasn’t until many years later I found the courage to say “I’ll go in the other room and paint while you watch golf.” I knew my husband wouldn’t be offended, but daring to say “I prefer to do something else right now” was a massive leap for me.
Now, I’m not saying we shouldn’t take interest in other people’s lives. That is still important, even if you don’t share the same enthusiasm for something. But there is a huge difference between caring about the other person and becoming the other person. That is where the lines get blurred when you are caught up with a psychopath.
If you are recovering from a life with a psychopath, embracing your individuality can be pretty scary. Your mind gets filled with a lot of “shoulds” and “should-nots.” The uncertainty and lack of confidence can be overwhelming. In my case, I relied on others to define my thoughts and emotions. I constantly needed reassurance: Is what I’m feeling okay? Am I doing the right thing? Is this normal? Pay attention to those thoughts, especially the ones concerning your feelings. Instead of questioning them, embrace them as part of who you are. Maybe you feel differently about something than other people do. That’s okay! No two people are on the same journey in life. This is YOUR journey and your feelings are part of who YOU are!
That has been a huge concept for me, because I’ve been “trained” to think that I am a non-person. I am in my 40’s, and I’m only beginning to develop my own identity. I still catch myself questioning, worrying, over-thinking. After being raised by psychopaths and exposed to their brain-washing for decades, the hypervigilance is hard to break. But this is what I’ve learned so far: We each have a unique contribution to this world that no one else can give, and it will never be revealed as long as our identity is always enmeshed with someone else’s.
Hi Donna, have your watched the reality show “True Tori”?? I hope you will, as the shows displays manipulation tactics of gas lighting abuse, pity play, manipulation, mind control, love bombing etc to control a victims of abuse. It’s on lifetime tv but you can watch previous episodes on their website just click on “True Tori” the second & third show really show the abuse. The show follows Tori Spelling’s aftermath of her finding out her husband cheated on her and dealing with his alcohol/sex/drug addictions. All a while her/their counselor is clueless as to what domestic abuse and personality disorders actually are…and does nothing in this very serious situation to help Tori out of her abusive relationship.
Thanks Jan7 – I’ll look into the show
Jan7,
Oh my, I watched the TrueTori show and I was disgusted. It makes me want to scream at how much pain she is in and how all the focus is on her manipulative husband. This is the story of my life.
My husband used the same tactics and schemes as does Tori’s husband. As soon as he was caught, he went into the “I’m so injured” mode and his healing became the focus of our relationship. Like Tori, I still believed he was the love of my life, my best friend and I took the pain, balled it up and went on taking care of our life. My heart aches for her sweet spirit and the abuse she is taking.
This show is another example of how the Spath bamboozles everyone and somehow comes out with all the attention, concern and pity. Also, it is a testimony to how blind the professional world of psychology and psychiatry is to this type of abuse. The focus should never be strictly on the abuser, but on the family as a whole.
I believe that treatment that focuses totally on the abuser, actually keeps the victim in a much more vulnerable state. People with normal emotions will naturally feel guilt and compassion for the so called “addict” and therefore put off any real decision to self care or to move on. This is a HUGE flaw in the system. The first order of any treatment for this type problems should be to get the family into counseling and therefore provide an opportunity to clarify the situation for the spouse. Tori’s husband is not disturbed. He’s a lying cheat who got caught. He a manipulator who LoveBombed her into falling for him (because she has money) then proceeded to build a huge family (thus the strong attachment) and then continued to live the despicable life he had always lived. HE’S A FLAMING SOCIOPATH.
I can only hope that Tori is really just playing his game. Hopefully, she realizes what he is and is using her assets to expose him, and also to warn others of the tools Spaths use to control. Even if this is so, her pain is very real and I feel so bad for her. She’s a very strong lady.
Thanks for suggesting the show. I recognize many of the tactics the husband uses which helps me se my own situation more clearly.
Hopeingtoheal, I agree with everything you stated!
It is so very heart wrenching that Tori is suffering so much, her mind is so brain washed and under her husbands mind control that he only allows her to feel “happy” she is not allowed to have a full range of emotions what so ever, if she did have a full range that would mean she would not put up with his abuse and most importantly she would see that their marriage is nothing but a nightmare…he has her dancing around to his needs only. Their “marriage counseling” sessions manipulation of Tori/the counselor are exactly like what I experienced and everything else he does like your husband is exactly like my ex h. Although my ex did not go to rehab or claim a breakdown he was extremely masterful how he played his counseling game both in the office/car ride to and from/at home. So scary to watch.
She was clearly love bombed and quickly into a relationship with him. Sadly society has no clue about this type of manipulation and still states she “cheated with him”, “karma”, “she did not thing about the first wife” on and on…if they only knew the truth, then they would not belittle a victim like Tori. If they only knew the truth they would realize that the first wife is better off without her ex h even though she had to go through such a public break up and heartache should would have gone through it with someone else her ex would have cheated with had he not done a movie with Tori. For me I now know that my ex’s three mistress at the end was my escape out of the relationship..they gave me freedom from him..I pray for them still that they will escape his grips too.
I too hope that she is out witting him. Praying for her to find this site and a new counselor who is fully aware of psychopathic abuse. Thanks for posting your thoughts good to know that others see right through is con game.
To Wendy…I am sorry that we are talking about this show on your post…I want you to know that I did not mean to take away from your important post but wanted Donna to see that show so I just posted a message to her on the most recent post of hers which was yours.
Wendy, you bring up ever good points. Looking back I realize that one of my friends father was a narcissist maybe a sociopath not sure but the whole family did what he want…they jumped at his every demand. We were in high school even though it was odd and different from my family I just chalked it up to they were a close family who liked to spend time together. Now I know they were grossly immeshed with each others lives…even now years later they are still unhealthy immeshed in each others adults lives. As for my friend when she was with a bf in hs/college she would drop all of her friends and only hang out with her bf until they broke up then she would reappear in our lives and now she does the same with her narcissistic/sociopathic husband and disregards her children. Sad to watch her children not getting the love and healthy attention they need to thrive in this world even sadder is the fact she is educated on narcissistic and sociopathic abuse but does not want to see her husband behavior is abusive.
If you have not read the book “freedom of mind” by steven hassan..Wendy I highly recommend it…it will give you more tools to open your mind up from your childhood mind control. Hassan has a website under the book title.
Jan7, I will check out hassan’s book. Thank you!
Wendy,
It is wonderful to read you realized the unhealthy and dysfunctional family you had, and sounds as though you are doing well. I am so worried about my step daughter as she has been raised solely by her spath mother for the past 4 yrs. She was part of our family half the time until she turned 14 and told her mother she wanted to live at our house more. Everything changed. Her visits became less often until she decided that OUR house was not a healthy place to be. Where did that come from we asked ourselves. And from a 14 year old?
For four years now, her mother has filled her head with so many disgusting lies, that I feel the child has been brainwashed to “hate” her father. We have seen her twice in 4 yrs and both times were awkward. If my husband hears from his daughter, it is her spewing odd, mean things to him. He was the protective parent and misses his daughter so very much. He contacts her often, sends gifts, cards, money, etc and hears nothing back. Is it possible her spath mother has turned her against him/us? My husband has gone nc with his ex which has helped. But we worry we won’t ever get our daughter back. Does this happen? Is there anything we can do?
Another bad thing about this situation is that her older sister is also a spath…….
gotasixthsense – My heart goes out to both of you and your husband’s daughter. Unfortunately this situation is all too common. If your step-daughter’s mom is a spath, there will never be any reasoning with her. Even “mean” people still have the capacity to love their own kids, but with true spaths, no one is exempt. Not even their own children. I’m sure this is heartbreaking for your husband, but I think it’s great he is still trying to reach out to her. That’s huge. The good news is, at 14, it won’t be long before she can make her own decisions. I hope and pray that in time his daughter’s heart will heal and they will have a close relationship again.
Wendy,
I’m so sorry that you had to conform so much as a child. It’s good to read that you are finally finding yourself. Your article is very clear on how a Spath works to make you a clone, not unlike a cult member.
Thanks!
Wendy, I have so much respect for the obstacles you have overcome. I hope some day when someone asks you, you will have an answer that can reflect your strength and courage as a survivor. We become free when we become free. Age and place in life has nothing to do with it. It can happen in your 40’s or your 90’s. The great thing is that once you’re free, you’re free, and the past will not hurt you any more.
I was never allowed to say no to my stepfather growing up when asked to do something. I basically felt like I was invisible to the point I hardly even spoke. It took many years to stop being a doormat. Doormat Syndrome was in full effect when I was in college. My dorm roommate (we shared a tiny room) got a rabbit and gave it the run of the room. I didn’t complain. The rabbit peed and pooped all over my shoes. I never said anything. It was only when I sat in a bean bag chair with my nicest dress on to put my shoes on and sat in a puddle of pee that I spoke up. That’s what it took. I was also very unassertive with men. Now, at 53 I have been through so much that I model assertiveness for the women in my office and most of my friends. I am sometimes regarded as selfish for putting my own needs first by people who don’t know how to do the same. And guess what? I don’t care what they think. At the end of the day, I’m happier, my blood pressure is lower, and I can sleep at night without having to take a bunch of pills. I have found my identity as a healer, dancer, musician and creative person. It has taken a LONG time. And hopefully, some day I will add writer to the list.
Stargazer – that is wonderful you are doing so well! I admit I’m not there yet – I still have a long way to go. I didn’t break away from my spath mom’s brainwashing until about 7 years ago, so I’m still “re-wiring” a lot of my thinking. I don’t feel sad anymore, but I still have terrible fears and anxiety. I admire where you are at in life – I hope someday (sooner rather than later) I will get to that place too.
Wendy, I don’t want you to get the idea that my life is all unicorns and roses. Believe me it’s not. I have so many issues that I still struggle with.
Amen Stargazer! You have really blossomed over the years. Good to hear ‘freedom’ in your voice.
Slim
The last paragraph of your story really resonated with me. You were “trained” to be a non-person. That has totally been me, and when people ask me what I want, I don’t know. That’s why it has always seemed safer to stay married. Not to rock the boat. Congratulations on your new life. I’m still immeshed — though I’m separated 5 years, I’m still immeshed, and this was a great reminder.
Yes, seems to me also that being the child of a psychopathic /sociopathic or highly narcissistic parent (I think of those with npd as “spath lite”) is a lot like growing up in a cult. The Cult Leader dictates how everyone must think and act; individual thoughts or opinions are not tolerated.
Part of that dynamic on display in my situation, was that I had to like the people my bpd/npd/aspd mother liked, and hate those she hated. I wasn’t allowed to like my mother’s older sister, my Aunt, who was just a sweet, kind, lovely person, because my mother hated her older sister with every molecule in her body.
The Cult Leader demands your loyalty, or will make you wish you’d never been born!
I think the spath’s feelings of “love” for their child are actually more like how normal people feel about their new car; more like “ownership” than love. A person must possess the ability to feel empathy before they can feel actual love, and those with npd and aspd and psychopathy/sociopathy don’t have the ability to feel affective empathy.
So, so true. But nobody seems to think it could be the woman and courts are unwilling to simply require both parents to do the full array psych tests and just give the kids to the mom. Yet, at the same time they appoint a custody evaluator who does nothing for the fees awarded by the court.
The man is left with this compounded feeling, nobody believes me, nobody understands what she’s like. The courts just presume to know who is who and yet, they’ve never met the couple before.
I agree with you, and think that there is a deeply-embedded prejudice going on: the concept of *Motherhood* is nearly sacred. *The Mother* as an archetype is almost deified. This is understandable because most women who choose to become mothers are relatively mentally healthy and are good-enough as parents, while some are even very good at it, and that’s actually very pro-survival for our species.
But at the same time, that kind of blind, near-worshipful stereotyping of *Motherhood* as in “All Mothers are All-Good”, can have *ghastly* consequences for the children of psychopathic mothers or heavily narcissistic pd mothers, or other abusive, negligent, possibly substance-abusing or mentally-ill, or personality-disordered mothers. We’re talking long-term emotional damage for these kids.
So, yes, for sure lawyers and judges (who are all former lawyers) all badly need to be educated about the nature of mental illnesses, and educated that some mental disorders have as a prominent feature the ability to deceive and manipulate and wear a “mask of perfection” in public.
And I agree that the best solution in custody cases would be to require that both parents undergo extensive psychological testing and I’d go further: each custodial parent should be under observation for an extended period (random, unannounced visits), in order to determine the true best interests of the children.
Its always the children who pay the highest price for the ignorance, selfish indifference and ineptitude of adults.
Still getting used to there being another Stargazer here. LOL
Describing it like its falling into a sinkhole is exactly what it feels like. I’m sitting here feeling so stunned and numb from years of dealing with my deeply disturbed daughter. And my equally disturbed mother who enabled my daughter’s behavior-contributed to it. Yesterday the judge terminated my daughter’s legal rights of her 10 year old daughter-severe abuse, neglect and refusal to get clean from meth, pills,alcohol and the synthetic legal drugs. I have had physical custody (through CPS) for 1.5 years. Her son is 18 and its too late for him. I tried many times to get these kids away from her, but my spath daughter always got away with it. (The son and daughter remind me of the Shanti and Kenny Kimes story. These two will never part). My daughter has severe drug and alcohol addictions, so does the son-and many arrests between them. By July, the adoption will be complete. And the very long road of recovery for my granddaughter will continue. She is brilliant-straight A student- but she has learned how to survive in negative ways thru this brilliance. She cannot express emotions on any level. School has and is her outlet to shine and be recognized. Everywhere else, she’s flat line. Even though the mom is gone, the memories aren’t and never will be. I feel like I should be celebrating but I’m just too emotionally worn out to do little more than just breathe. I have made arrangements to begin counseling for myself. The sink hole keeps us trapped in the never ending drama and we forget ourselves in the process. Too weak to climb out and begin living again. I don’t even know any more what living is. I used to be so strong and sure of myself. I know its still there because I see the light at the top of the sinkhole. I know I can get out-but I don’t know if my granddaughter can. It scares more than anything I’ve ever dealt with. There are many grandparents in the same situation I am. We make up the top numbers of “Kinship Foster Care”. Not only did we go through the insanity of our drug addicted spath children, we are faced with traumatized grandkids. And there never seems to be anywhere WE fit-our out, our peace. The only way to help this little girl is to help myself get back up and running. She won’t like it as she likes to manipulate me into confusion and high stress.Its the only thing she knows and she does it well. But in the end-I know I will look back and say to myself-JOB WELL DONE. Thank you for listening.
Redheeler,
Your granddaughter is very lucky to have someone who will go through hell to save her. Because of you, she will be able to heal with confidence having stability and security with you. I admire your boundless love for your family. I’m so sorry to hear of the heartbreak, but celebrate that your granddaughter is now free?
You will be on my heart. Prayers coming your way.
Wendy
Your words clarified a lot for me, especially the first two paragraphs. I remember telling a counselor that I felt like a ‘non-person’. I was cleaning and cooking for the elderly at the time, and one of the married couples (in their 70’s) told me I seemed like a ‘non-person’. On every other job I have had people could tell I was very ‘different and unhappy’.
You also helped me realize that my older sister is a psychopath and extreme control freak. She does not care how you feel or about anything you think…she becomes very silent when I assert myself and say how I feel. I disagreed with her about our family. I refuse to participate with this family…it is always a mistake to be with them. I told her off when she said that I was a part of the family…that “I belonged to them”. I spoke to her about that and told her I would ream her another asshole if she ever said anything like that to me again. I informed her that I am my ‘own person’ and did what I liked to do. When she found out that Tom and I had been to the Caribbean five times she was astounded. She was angry (and scared) that she never knew. It never even occurred to me to tell her.
And Tom’s family is clearly making an all out effort to follow in our footsteps. All well and go to imitate our actions, but there are limits. Now they want to go to Costa Rica because we did…they bought a piece of land (before we did) which they found out through Tom’s mother who loved to ‘get the jump’ on us (so it would look like it was ‘their’ idea…and on and on). It can become downright embarrassing.
But your words clued me right into what my sister really is. I just thought of her as an extreme control freak. Now I realize she is psychopathic. And that is beyond embarrassing.
Wendy, thank you for writing about yourself Being in your forties is better than fifty. I was fifty one, divorced after 30 years of marriage to a psychopath, with only psychopathic family members. I knew my husband for two weeks only, before I left my home to run off to Las Angeles, his home. My ex was a moma’s boy from day one. I was nearly twenty. My mom hated me so much that I decided to marry the first guy who asked me. I never considered that I knew nothing about my ex. I knew nothing about his truly, corrupt and criminal ly insane family. I was covertly and overtly assaulted by my ex and his family before I even arrived. I won’t go into what emotional torture does to your soul. You have done a masterful job getting it all into language that makes sense. I have been divorced fifteen years. It gets better and better all the time. I never wanted another man in my life. I planned it that way as I was convinced that I was better off single. I came up with a conservative financial plan. It served me well. It was the commitment to my plan that showed me that I was an intelligent and rational human being. My soul and my identity were swallowed up whole. I broke down into little fragmented selves. All the more easily manipulated and assaulted. However, it is a psycho-spiritual journey that allows us to let go of the trappings of status. I believe we were addicted to whatever we could hold on to. Even the status of being a couple. Beware of the social devil, “humiliating aloneness”. There is no shame in having loved and lost, in being alone and independent, and in never knowing the meaning of love, until, reaching fifty one! I like to inspire people. I hope I have succeeded. Kalina
I would like to add, that we are always afraid of what we don’t understand. So, if understanding is the key to recovery, I suggest, learn all you can about yourself. We can overly dwell on what we have been through, failing to see how we can reinforce our own pain. Imagine a brighter tomorrow, then go make it happen. Without the toxic baggage of sociopathy in your midst, you are bound to fly to heights you have never thought possible before. Enjoy your life. You deserve it! Kalina
kalina…my life is the same as yours. I have been divorced 22 years and have never remarried by choice. It’s a struggle against society though that tells you that something is wrong with you if you are alone or celibate. You are so right…there is NOTHING wrong with being alone and independent. That is me. I loved the spath more than anything and could have seen a life with him even if it would have been a crazy one, but I am fine alone. I have really realized recently how superficial so many of my friends are. It’s been hurtful and an eye opener. I am super compassionate and caring to a fault and when I look around, it is quite obvious that the world in general does not share my same chemical make up for being a caring human being. I finally realized that the quicker I know this, the better off I will be.