I recently had clinical contact with a client who left me with the unusually strong, immediate impression of “schemer,” “slick,” “full of crap.” He was instantly, aggressively ingratiating—less, I felt, from insecurity, as from ulterior motives, as if he were angling, at the outset, for an edge.
I had the uncomfortable feeling I get around intrusive salesmen who leave you feeling like an “object” from whom to extract a sale and commission.
I should mention that he was glib. Glibness is a trait often associated with certain sociopaths. My client was so glib, as a matter of fact, that for the first time in a long while the word “glib” actually popped into my head.
When I say “glib,” I don’t mean just fast-talking, which he was. He was shallow, too. And for me, the combination of smooth, fast talking, underlain by shallowness, really captures “glib.”
He was something of a schemer, and it was fascinating to observe him deny or dismiss rife evidence of his historical deceptiveness, abusiveness and double-standards. And he did so with a striking lack of shame, and with much audacity, along with irritation (arrogantly conveyed) to have to even deign to respond to the history.
Now I’d like to shift gears (abruptly), and say something about the psychopath’s (or sociopath’s) alleged “look,” or “stare,” which has been described anecdotally in the literature. Its most obvious form is characterized by a certain crazed intensity (note some of the existing photos of Ted Bundy, and other serial killers).
There are also, I suggest, other, subtler forms of this look. In any case what this “look” transmits (in any of its forms) is something elementally predatory. It has an evaluatively predatory quality.
I suspect that many of you have had the experience of being watched in this way?
It’s more than a feeling of being scrutinized, because all of us scrutinize each other, and clients should be scrutinizing their therapists.
It is more, I think, the quality, or motive, of the scrutiny—again, a predatory aspect that engenders the experience of feeling invaded, and “sized up,” “measured” for ulterior purposes.
At bottom, this is a type of “look” that leaves one feeling watched, studied as an “object.” One experiences the “watcher” as if he or she is calculating, “How much can I have my way with this person? How susceptible is this person to my present interests in him or her?”
My client had this “look.”
He was a “watcher,” and as he watched me, I often had the disconcerting sense that he was less interested in what I had to say, or what I was saying, than in using the time I was speaking to further his evaluation of my vulnerability.
This feeling with, experience of someone, can be a signal. It can signal that something predatory is brewing, or occurring.
I’ve called this the “feel” of a sociopath, because sociopaths sometimes (not always) can stir-up this sensation in those whose paths they’ve crossed, or lives they’ve entered. To be sure, not all sociopaths evoke this experience; but some do, and it can be an uncomfortable, and not easily articulated experience. Depending on the circumstances, it can even feel flatteringly seductive (if still uncomfortable).
Take, for instance, a blind/first-date scenario, in which the exploitative-minded individual approvingly, hungrily, invasively and audaciously sizes-up his date, leaving her feeling flattered (hungrily desired) while at the same time uneasy?
This “sizing up,” “measuring” process too often belies not a hunger for love, and connection, but of acquisition, possession and/or conquest.
(This article is copyrighted (c) 2009 by Steve Becker, LCSW.)
I saw the signs after three or four weeks. During the following month my contact with him was limited due to all his drama, which was supposed to be over shortly. But he continued to call and email, and occasionally visit, eventually telling me he was in love with me. He behaved nicely for the first 3 weeks. So for about 4-6 weeks there was bizarre behavior. Mostly, it was promising to call and not calling, a no-show/no call/posting onf the reptile site, and a few details that didn’t add up. I put 2 and 2 together after the 6th week with the second no-show/no-call/posting on the reptile site. I didn’t even know about all his fraud schemes or that he had lied about his divorce. I just knew that that behavior was unacceptable for me. It killed me to walk away from him, but I think that was his was of discarding me (without taking responsibility).
So I had a total of 4-6 weeks where I rationalized his bad behaviors. I believed it was due to all of his drama with the army and his “soon-to-be ex-wife” as he called her. I also believed he had a head injury, and that it had affected his memory. I thought that maybe after all the drama was over and his divorce was final, he wouldn’t behave like that any more. I checked with all of my friends throughout this process, and they were as confused as I was. The ones who had met him loved him and thought he was perfect for me. They encouraged me to give him some space, but to keep him in my life. I feel the 4-6 weeks wasn’t too much time to give him the benefit of the doubt, since I didn’t really know what a sociopath was then. But there is no way I would have put up with it any longer.
Now that I know about S’s, 1 incident will be enough for me. One lie, one broken promise, one no-show. I now have a zero-tolerance policy for this BS.
I have to add that we were on “friendly terms” for a year prior to beginning a full fledged relationship. My story is complicated. It wasnt meeting online or going on a first date. It was this long long journey beginning with a simple hello, exchanging numbers, phone calls, working out at gym together, texts, grabbing lunch, spending time together hiking, etc. Referring to ourselves as friends and then discussing the possibility of more..was he was in, iI took four months until he approached me for the first loan because he quit his job (I didnt know it was a recently acquired job) and that he had a history of job hopping, thousands in debt and path of destruction with women left behind him. But, what complicated matters for me was the “friendship obligation” I felt toward him. UGH…. Off to the park with puppy and my ipod, and NO LIMP!!!!!!! Have a great day everyone
A counselor just said to me that the best sociopaths are virtually undetectable. This is something I recently heard. Sometimes you just can’t tell. And WHY do they ALWAYS fake a limp? Mine is faking a limp to get out of the army. I never saw the limp because he was perfectly healthy around me. That was his downfall. Shoulda faked the limp with me and my friends too. He didn’t know who he was messing with when he met me. I eventually became the key witness in the army’s fraud investigation.
I think limp-faking must be a chapter in the Book of Advanced Sociopathy.
I was at an event last night, and this guy (nice guy) who has hinted around asking me out before, actually asked me out last night. I don’t know if is because I’m just not attracted to him, or if I just am not ready to really start dating (though I have dipped my toe in the water a few unsuccessful times), but I said no. But, like the rest of us LF folks, I am often painfully concerned about other’s feelings, and wanted to do everything in my power to make him feel okay. So I told him a bit about my story with the ex S. Just a little, and didn’t use any terms like N, P, or S.
This guy asked me if I liked “bad boys,” and said something to the effect of “I don’t understand why some women like bad boys.” I explained to him, and reminded myself, that the S presented as anything but a bad boy. He presented as such a “good boy” between his therapy sessions, meditation groups. and AA meetings……he was someone who was spiritually and psychologically minded and quite healthy. He talked about God, his feelings, his love for mankind, blah blah blah blah blah
I think a leather-clad, tatoo covered, “bad boy” on a motorcycle would have been a skip through a field of daisies compared to the ex S.
OxDrover: Re: Predators pick out the one animal in a herd of 1000 that has even the slightest limp—just as the wolf, hyena, lion, tiger, can find that ONE animal among many that gives it an edge,so does the human predator!
With that statement, it made me think of an observation that the S used to say regularly to me, ” You don’t like confrontations and will try to avoid them”.
After the S I see this statement was an interpretation of myself, that the S was digesting in the long run of the situation, (relationship). He was assessing me to see if he was going to meet his goals of, (money, a free place to live, a car, food etc) .
That personality weakness he had assessed in me, was his ticket into my life. But over time this interpretation S had about me, and seeing what others, (him), may have seen in my personality were the downfall of the S. Having heard many times that I was interpreted to “not like confrontations” (being a personalityweakness for the S). This “weakness” made it my strength to prosecute with the locals for the S’s abuse, and a strength to have while in confrontations, and to be able to stand before the judge, many times, and not to backdown with S.
The confrontaional coping skills learned now and at the time gave me the ability to be able to show the true behavior of the S, that S was “fooling” everyone in his path, including the legal system.
To sum it up, I was being assessed from day 1 by this predator in his hunting. This meeting of him was not about finding out about someone to see if there was compatability. I was mirrored by S to enable a feeling of compatibilty within me. He was quiet, calm, and in control of his emotions and seemed to be like me. I did not like confrontations. In other relationships with family and friends I would choose to walk away from dysfunction, rather than fight about it. This not liking confrontations was the start of this relationship. I had made the best choices of personal fulfillment, by walking away from confrontations before the S and still continue to and it was worthwhile to keep dysfunction out of my life.
I was sending a wrong message to S, he interpreted it differently and used it. Until his true character was shown, and he was arrested and hauled in to court a few times and then sent to jail for his actions and violations. He was the predator being sought by the legal system for his actions. It was not about my confrontations and whether I like them or not.
Prosecute an S/P to keep them away from you. If they are abusing you, stalking, or giving you harassing phone calls and texts, if they are talking your money and not paying it back, (you probably will not get it back, but it is still worth trying in my case), or if they just won’t leave you alone. It is illegal to do this to anyone. There are laws to protect us from predators.
Dealing with confrontations today with the locals and the system, emotions do not get in the way of showing, the facts, the facts only, of the S, and not of my emotions. Not saying this is not painful, not painful to realize the whole big picture.
This whole prcess of healing with S has had so many emotions of anger, hurt and deception. Crying until there are no more tears, and then crying again and crying again is healing and so is feeling anger. I have a friend who is a pediatrician that also offers advice for adults in many situations and grief. She recommends when the stress is high, to scream. She has said many times to everyone, while in your car and the stress is high, scream, just scream and get it out, or at the home go in another room and scream to ease some stress. I don’t know about this but I have, in the car at times.
After the kleenex box is empty again, and again and I am having bad thoughts, I try to have 1 good thought. If I cannot, I get off of that bad emotional response and don’t go back to until I can fill it with a good thought. A thought not of S. The sun, the birds, the beach, love, my strengths. It is not easy to break that negative feeling which I allowed for a long long time. Well a good thought now. It is learning.
This morning I had someone here who asked me what the future is. I explained that now is the present, the future is tomorrow, and today will be the past tomorrow, and we cannot go back into the past to change things that were there then, The future is our hope in the present. And with the past we could not go back and change anything. But the future keeps coming.
I think I confused this one by these statements, a little one wanting to learning the definition of a new word.
My own words rang true to me. And then prayers of healing.
It is a new day, the future of the present yesterday, the past with 8 inches of new snow waiting to be shoveled.
My “policy” on “loans” is that I MIGHT GIVE some one $100 bucks on a short term “loan” and if they do not pay it back they never get another dime, and I have learned a “cheap” lesson about them. I never “loan” more than I can afford to lose, and then ONLY rarely. I do not loan tools or vehicles either. If you need my tools or vehicle, my sons or I go with them. Even to the MOST trusted people. I seldom if ever borrow anything from anyone else either. If I DO borrow something (even an old tool) and it breaks while I have it, I replace it with a new one.
I have CLEAR understandings in all business deals and I ALWAYS keep my word until I see that someone else is NOT going to keep theirs and then all bets are off! I “rented” my pasture to a neighbor who was supposed to do a certain amount of “work” on upkeep and he brought his cattle over here and then did not do the work. I asked him when he intended to and he said “Well, I am too busy” and I said “well, you have not paid your ‘rent’ like you agreed.”
He got smart with me and said “Well, WHERE do you think you will find someone to keep your place up like YOU want it kept up” (like the fences repaired enough to keep the cows off the road) etc. And I said in return, “Well, if I have to repair the fences, fix the road, and mow the weeds, WHAT THE HELL DO I NEED YOU FOR? You have X amount of time to move your cows.”
The next week I had 10 people all begging to rent my place and I picked the neighbor that I thought would do the best job. In addition to fertilizing my land (a big expense) mowing all the weeds, baling hay, fixing fence, etc. they furnish hay for my livestock and use their hired hand to put it out. They watch my place when I am gone (and for all those months I was gone) and if a cow needs to go to the vet, they haul it for me and see that it is taken care of. So, I say to my old “renter” who wanted the use of my land without paying his labor “rent”—SEE, SUCKER, I DID FIND SOMEONE WHO KEEPS IT LOOKING LIKE I WANT IT TO LOOK!
These people do so much MORE for me than I would have ever expected that they have my place “forever” if they want it. It is a “marriage” made in heaven for us both as they only live a mile away.
I had some folks who wanted to come out here and cut wood to burn because they were poor. I told them to come on and take some trees I had that were down and needed cutting up anyway (it would give them wood and my sons wouldn’t hve to cut the trees up and then haul the brush away) so I told them if they would clean it up they could have all the wood they wanted forever. SO, what did they do? They came out and took the log for wood and left the brush in worse shape than before and MADE MORE WORK for my sons. So guess what? NO MORE WOOD FOR THEM.
Had another nice man who cuts wood for a living offer to cut up a BIG tree that had fallen for the wood. He stacked the brush in SUCH NEAT PILES all we have to do is light the match on a windless day to burn it….he can come cut wood forever here because he did a BETTER JOB of piling the brush than I would have even expected.
When people do a GOOD job and stand behind their word, show that their word is good and WALK THE WALK not just “talk the talk” I give them more credit and more trust than those that say one thing and do another. I didn’t even say a word to the first “wood cutters” and as far as I am concerned I would let the wood rot on the ground before I would let them have a single stick of it because they are TAKERS and don’t keep their word. They want you to GIVE and themselves to TAKE but they don’t want to keep their part of the bargain.
I will give anyone a hand up, but I am not giving anyone a hand OUT. That is why I had to ask my “friends” last year that moved out here in their RV (they live full time in an RV) to move on because they wanted a hand OUT and were not willing to reciprocate my hospitality, they felt they were ENTITLED to what I had, and to use and abuse my hospitality, making messes for me to clean up, not paying their electric bill on time, etc. It was one of the FIRST BIG BOUNDARIES that I set, and I am proud of myself, That boundary was set a year ago in June, and they moved to mooch off his brother instead of me, and they are in worse financial shape today than they were then when they lived here. They didn’t learn a thing except that I would not continue to be their victim. BUT I LEARNED that I CAN SET BOUNDARIES and that I can set them without guilt and without tears and without being afraid to “hurt some one’s feelings.” IF THEIR FEELINGS GET HURT because I set boundaries of the amount of abuse I will take and the way they treat me, TOO BAD! NOT MY PROBLEM.
They are going to get a NEW BOUNDARY here soon too, as they put stuff in my storage warehouse (I told them they could) but part of the roof blew off and we are going to have to tear it down soon, so I told them this, and other than putting apiece of plastic over their stuff in the room where the roof is partly off, I did not take care of their stuff, and they informed me they are “too busy” so I hope that they get there before the bull dozer does because, if they don’t, that is NOT MY PROBLEM.
Another positive part about them being here and me having to set strict boundaries and eventually telling them to leave, is that they have IMPOSED on my son D’s friendship for years as their personal “slave” anytime they needed anything, and HE HAS ALSO seen that they are users, and has also set boundaries with them. It was also painful for him too as these people were close friends of my husband’s before his death, AND close friends of my son D since he was 14. So this relationship had a LOT of emotion attached to it, but now that I am learning to set boundaries for PEOPLE I FEEL CLOSE TO, and reexamine the relationships with them when I feel uncomfortable, instead of pushing these feelings of being “used” to the bottom, and sucking up my own feelings of irritation and anger and setting boundaries, I am realizing that NO ONE has a right to manipulate me, lie to me, use and abuse me, or expect me to provide them with what they should and can provide for themselves, and then stay pissed off because I don’t provide it in their “favorite flavor.” LOL (How’s that for a “run-on sentence, Mrs. Barlow?)
Dear HH,
Glad to see you back Posting, we’ve missed you and several have commented about where you are.! Yeppers! Wolf in sheep’s clothing!
Is opn,
Sometimes the predator makes a misjudgment and finds that the “limping” bull is not so weak after all. Our weaknesses can become our strongest defenses and them not expecting it. Even with a broken leg, I have seen a Cape buffalo tear a pride of lions up and in the end, limp off victorious over the predators, who decided that those horns were a trump card, even with a broken leg.
Sometimes it is the “fight in the dog” rather than the size of the dog that makes the difference. The Great White Pyrenees dogs that I used to guard my goats and sheep and cattle are THE most GENTLE dogs in the world, BUT they will fight to the death against any odds to protect what is theirs, they will NOT give up no matter how badly wounded they are. I had one dog that was attacked by a pack of roaming dogs, including one Pit Bull,, and my dog killed them all though one of his back legs was so mangeled that I thought he would be cripipled for life. (he recovered) Unlike a Pit, they will stop fighting when the other dog gives up, but will never stop as long as the other dog is fighting, AND they will never initiate a fight, but when it is initiated by something else, they are hell-bent-for-leather into the fight with everything they have.
The Great Pyrenees I think is the embodiment of what a good person should be. Gentle to the gentle and tougher than nails with a predator that is attacking them. I’ve owned many of them and they always use the MINIMUM amount of force necessary to quell a threat. My last Pyr was murdered a year ago last thanksgiving while I was living on the lake in the RV and I haven’t gotten another one yet as I no longer have goats, but I will before long, especially now that son C is back home as he loves the gentle giants and wants to get another one. I think I am about healed enough from the loss of the last one (a great wonderful dog!) to get another Pyr again. Losing 3 of my long-time pets, my old horse, my Pyr and my 14 yr old Shitzu all in a 5 month period along with having to leave my home, live “in hiding” etc, was just icing on the cake to the P attack.
Hey Oxy – I’ve been reading, reading, reading, like the old days. For whatever reason, I just haven’t had much to say. The ex S, and the relationship, have not been on my mind that much. But I’ve kept up with the posts because this site is brimming over with wisdom and love – I don’t think I’ll ever stop tuning in.
Oxy – you, personally, have such a wealth of knowledge. And it just keeps coming! Are you learning more about yourself with each of your posts? Do you feel like you are at the light at the end of the tunnel?
Today is my first really quiet day in a long time, and, predictably, I have thought more about the relationship. I’m much less emotionally fired-up, however.
I wonder, though, if this is just a “break” and God is giving me a rest before the next phase, or if I am really at a more peaceful stage of the recovery process.
But I’m fine everybody – not returning to sick behaviors!
I should poke my head in and say “hi,” even when I’m not posting, just to let people know I am okay.
OxD says: “Sometimes the predator makes a misjudgment and finds that the “limping” bull is not so weak after all. Our weaknesses can become our strongest defenses and them not expecting it. ”
Yep. My ex probably rues the day he ever met me. He never expected me to turn him in for adultery, never mind rally all my friends to testify in his fraud investigation. I think he banked on me just limping off and licking my wounds.
Stargazer & others: You said how he complimented you about something in your nature — that he liked that in you. And you took that as a true compliment. I think you need to re-interpret that.
When someone compliments us on something, we tend to take pride in what was complimented: we’ll wear that dress, or fix our hair that way again. Consider the compliment, “I feel so good when you show how much you care about me.” Notice how that reinforces YOUR BEHAVIOR. It’s more about the S/P training you, than about him “liking” that quality in you. Now the training can also happen through anger, sulks, and so on. But notice how we will repeat our behaviors that get positive reinforcement from others. Isn’t that amazing . . .
And later, we’re still thinking that they “liked” that quality about us. Huh!