I recently had clinical contact with a client who left me with the unusually strong, immediate impression of “schemer,” “slick,” “full of crap.” He was instantly, aggressively ingratiating—less, I felt, from insecurity, as from ulterior motives, as if he were angling, at the outset, for an edge.
I had the uncomfortable feeling I get around intrusive salesmen who leave you feeling like an “object” from whom to extract a sale and commission.
I should mention that he was glib. Glibness is a trait often associated with certain sociopaths. My client was so glib, as a matter of fact, that for the first time in a long while the word “glib” actually popped into my head.
When I say “glib,” I don’t mean just fast-talking, which he was. He was shallow, too. And for me, the combination of smooth, fast talking, underlain by shallowness, really captures “glib.”
He was something of a schemer, and it was fascinating to observe him deny or dismiss rife evidence of his historical deceptiveness, abusiveness and double-standards. And he did so with a striking lack of shame, and with much audacity, along with irritation (arrogantly conveyed) to have to even deign to respond to the history.
Now I’d like to shift gears (abruptly), and say something about the psychopath’s (or sociopath’s) alleged “look,” or “stare,” which has been described anecdotally in the literature. Its most obvious form is characterized by a certain crazed intensity (note some of the existing photos of Ted Bundy, and other serial killers).
There are also, I suggest, other, subtler forms of this look. In any case what this “look” transmits (in any of its forms) is something elementally predatory. It has an evaluatively predatory quality.
I suspect that many of you have had the experience of being watched in this way?
It’s more than a feeling of being scrutinized, because all of us scrutinize each other, and clients should be scrutinizing their therapists.
It is more, I think, the quality, or motive, of the scrutiny—again, a predatory aspect that engenders the experience of feeling invaded, and “sized up,” “measured” for ulterior purposes.
At bottom, this is a type of “look” that leaves one feeling watched, studied as an “object.” One experiences the “watcher” as if he or she is calculating, “How much can I have my way with this person? How susceptible is this person to my present interests in him or her?”
My client had this “look.”
He was a “watcher,” and as he watched me, I often had the disconcerting sense that he was less interested in what I had to say, or what I was saying, than in using the time I was speaking to further his evaluation of my vulnerability.
This feeling with, experience of someone, can be a signal. It can signal that something predatory is brewing, or occurring.
I’ve called this the “feel” of a sociopath, because sociopaths sometimes (not always) can stir-up this sensation in those whose paths they’ve crossed, or lives they’ve entered. To be sure, not all sociopaths evoke this experience; but some do, and it can be an uncomfortable, and not easily articulated experience. Depending on the circumstances, it can even feel flatteringly seductive (if still uncomfortable).
Take, for instance, a blind/first-date scenario, in which the exploitative-minded individual approvingly, hungrily, invasively and audaciously sizes-up his date, leaving her feeling flattered (hungrily desired) while at the same time uneasy?
This “sizing up,” “measuring” process too often belies not a hunger for love, and connection, but of acquisition, possession and/or conquest.
(This article is copyrighted (c) 2009 by Steve Becker, LCSW.)
Rune: Re:but these S/Ps sneak in under the radar.
Don’t I/we know it!
I was dating, if you can call it that this one guy for four months, met on a dating site. He seemed nice, yeah, well as time progressed, I could see the comments that he could have been an S/P. He always had to get a firm day/days and times we could get together for 2 weeks at a time and he wrote them down. I would say well I am busy this day and he would push by saying well I have to work I can’t, (he always came over after work), in my home he would not let me do anything, he put the leftovers away, washed the stove and the dishes for me. I was very uncomfortable with this, he had to beat me to the chase of doing everything. I think he was setting me up for dependency on him. He even went as far as saying what would you do without me? I replied, I got by with an X that did nothing so I will get by as before. He would come over and stay and stay and stay sometimes for 8 hours. I had to drag him off the sofa to leave. And then he asked me what was my X going to think when he starts to spend the night? Blew me away with this one. I never even kissed him, only on the cheek. I had red flags always popping up here and there. So I sent him an email saying I just don’t feel like dating, I am busy with family. He called and called and called, emails crying uncontrollably and then sent a letter of love. I think after 4 months he may have thought I was marriage material, he would mention V day and he had something special in mind. I just wanted to date. Oh, and he told me he hardly drinks. I was very firm in not wanting someone who drinks, I don’t. One night I asked him what he likes to drink. He mentioned 10 different things. I was watching for the red flags and here they were blowing in my face.
This S of the past 8 years, (only really here for four, off and on), married for three years has taught me the redflags.
As for spotting an S. Rune does it matter if they had a good childhood or are/were close to their parents and how do they treat their parents now in order to see if they may be an S/P?
Re: Normal people.
I know their crazy (S’s), It just got so bizarre as you can see by reading my posts. The day of the funeral we went back to my house. I had told S and S’s son to get out of my house now and never come back you are not welcome ever. He called the locals to have me taken away for observation for saying this. Unbelievable. The local came, who knew me for years and he said, Is opn, I am sorry but I had to come, I know this call was bogus. He then told S to get off of the property and he didn’t want to see him around the neighborhood again. Two weeks later he found S parked behind a dumptster across the street in his car watching my house.
Why did I do this for so long? Oxys skillet coming again.
Is Opn: “Does it matter if they had a good childhood or are/were close to their parents?” No. They could have a perfect upbringing, but have the genetic tendencies and just turn out to be S/Ps. (Oxy won’t say she was perfect, but you can bet her P son didn’t get the worst of childhoods! Look at how her other two boys are with her now, and they don’t seem to be anything like the son who is in prison.) S/Ps might also have their family bamboozled into thinking that they are just fine — because the family doesn’t understand how “off” their kid is.
And, YOU know how that is! Because we can’t think like them, we imagine that they can’t be REALLY thinking like that! So we say, “He didn’t mean that!” Why did you do it for so long? Because it was inconceivable that anyone could be THAT SCREWED UP! Except, of course, now you know.
I believe that the really, really “good” ones can hide for a long time. I also think that there are very subtle clues that we can watch for. As Robert Hare said, “It’s like they know the words, but not the music.” Sometimes I got the feeling that the S/P was reciting his lines, but he didn’t know what the words meant. We’d watch a movie and he would follow the action, but he didn’t really “get” the emotional turns to the plot. Of course, I only notice this now that I’ve had a lot of time to look back on those moments when I was with him and I was baffled by something.
Greetings to OxDrover, Donna and All,
I lost my password and paper for my websites so decided to create new name and account with my breach name in it. I have been reading but couldn’t post. This is an excellent article and I guess we have most everyone here experienced the “look”. I also got a new computer and didn’t put my old info in new one so have lost much data and valued information. Have missed all of you and the support and wisdom you share. Blessings, Breach and big hugs to OxDrover especially.
Glad you are back, Breeched,
Hope all is well with you! I’m panting for spring weather and we should get a few more days of it by Monday!
How is your court case against your X going? (((hugs))) back at you. I’ve been wondering how you were doing! You are always in my prayers.
Good morning everyone! It is a bright, sunny day in Chicago. I hope everyone is doing well. My lawyer emailed me yesterday and wrote that we will just set trial dates for the divorce and she is going to petition the courts for our home and income property to be sold.
I am nervous because I don’t know how my husband is going to respond to that. I did not talk with my lawyer but I need to. I am scared he may retaliate and ask me to pay for 1/2 of his debt that he continues to accumulate. So I will wait and see what she says. I would go to the supreme court if I had too…lol if I was ordered to pay for all of his bad finances. But I am going to try and be optimistic. My thing is if he has so much debt why after he left 3 months later he bought a $40,000 lexus? Why did he father another child?Why has he been vacationing in Brazil, Florida, etc? I could go on and on with the why’s of it all. I just want justice. I am hoping my husband will come to his “senses” and let it go and settle.
He has lied on court documents so he has already committed perjury. I don’t want a long, expensive battle with this man. Marrying him and having his child was the worse thing I have ever done. I am wondering if I can petition the court for him to take a psychological if it gets to that point. This man is really dangerous. It seems as if his sociopathy is becoming worse (if that is possible). Just how he is behaving and his reactions to things is scarey and not normal.
For a divorce trial does anyone know if witnesses are ever called? I am wondering if his mistress and family would be called in. Would my family be called in.
If a divorce goes to a trial or hearing, yes, witnesses can be called in. I was a witness at my son’s divorce hearing against the psychopathic witch who tried to kill him.
Good luckk and hang tough! It won’t be easy, cause he will LIE (just be able to prove he is lying if you can with documents) and he will do everything he can to make you take as much of the debt as possible and him as little, but consult with your attorney and hang on for the ride! (((hugs))))
The “feel” of a sociopath? Just when I started to think he was normal and I was seeing things I caught him looking at me like snake about to pounce on a mouse and I never doubted myself again. That’s what they feel like.
Ox: Thanks. I hope everything worked out for your son.
Dear Nic,
AFter the attack when she and her BF tried to kill him, he moved out of state to live with a male friend. He stayed away for a year and a half, and then came home in November of this year to stay with me and his brother here in my house.
His house is rented out right now, and he prefers to live here with us right now anyway. It is cheaper and he has company. He has not yet started a job search but is working here on the farm with my other son and I and the “down time” of low stress is having a VERY positive effect on his healing.
His hypervigilence is decreasing markedly since he came home. I think that a LOW STRESS environment is good for us as we start to do our healing and gives us TIME to think, and that is necessary to healing. He has lost 20 pounds of weight he gained while he was gone, without even trying, just getting exercise and eating low fat which is the way I cook, instead of eating at McDonald’s and other fast food places.
He is sleeping better, and not having the night mares etc. that I think are the result of the PTSD he suffered as he held the door closed against a much bigger man with a gun as he dialed 911. He has a concealed carry permit and carries a gun with him, but he no longer jumps if the dog barks or if a vehicle drives up in the drive way. His hypervigilence was over the top when he came home. Some of the vigilence is legitimate as both his X-wife and the psychopath who tried to kill him (her BF) are out on the street from jail/prison again. There are no contact orders, but you know what those are worth—they are just pieces of paper, not bullet proof vests!
I’m actually more “afraid” of the next trojan horse psychopath that my P-son sends to “off” us than I am the one I know on sight. He is a coward and I think will not approach us because he KNOWS we are armed and would not hesitate to defend ourselves. The next one will probably not be someone I know on sight or that will KNOW we are armed.
I no longer live in TERROR and my son C is getting to where he doesn’t either, but taking CAUTION is always a good idea.
nic:
I think you have made a wise decision in telling your lawyer to go for having the house and rental sold. As for his reaction, tell him he and his lawyer can discuss it with your lawyer. Don’t enter into any discussions with him. Don’t enter into any negotiations with him. Don’t enter into any agreements with him. Everything has to go through the lawyers.
And I’m speaking to you as a lawyer who has been through the divorce mill. I wanted it to be over so badly I would have willingly signed blank paper. My lawyer told me “My job is to keep you from making decisions you will regret. And my job is to deal with your ex.” Now I see the wisom in what she said.
Have you asked your lawyer about apportioning the marital debt?
Typically, marital debt is “locked down” on the date the separation agreement is entered into or the divorce petition is filed.
However, if you two separated but didn’t take either of those steps, in some states you can argue that the date your spouse moved out should be the date used to fix the marital debt. Also, if your spouse went on a spending spree (and it sounds like yours did your attorney can argue that it would be inequitable for you to get saddled with the portion of the bills he ran up after he left.
The problem always is that no matter what you agree to with this creature, he probably won’t abide. That’s why your best bet is to auction off everything and net it against the debt.
Also, if you haven’t already, you need to start getting separate credit in your name, close down the joint accounts. Especially if you are the primary on the accounts and you let him on as a secondary. This is critical, since it sounds like he has be on a spending spree since you separated.