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By September 30, 2013 40 Comments Read More →

The cardboard cutout sociopath

James Montgomery at a business meeting.

James Montgomery at a business meeting.

My sociopathic ex-husband, James Montgomery, considered himself to be an entrepreneur, the equal of any man who ever built a commercial empire. As he was seducing me, painting a glimmering picture of how successful and rich we would become, he proclaimed that he would be “the next Walt Disney.”

When Montgomery went to business meetings, he wore a jacket, trousers, and a polo shirt. He refused to wear ties, but he always had a silk square in his jacket pocket. He told me that even when he was young, he always dressed up in jackets and cravats, eschewing the psychedelic fashions of the 60s.

So you can imagine my surprise when I heard that he’d been spotted at a train station in Katoomba, Australia, in a totally different look:

He was wearing: red/orange pants, hippie sandles, caftan like long top to ankles in multiple colours, big round glasses with pink lenses, long scarf draped around his neck and over his shoulder nearly touching the ground and a hat which looked like a beanie.  A long white beard probably about 12/15inches long and I would say weighing about 150 to 175 kilos or more.  Imagine a man 6ft 2ins tall 175 kgs and wearing that get up!!!

James had tried to hook up with the woman who provided this description, while he was still dressing like an entrepreneur. She escaped. So when she saw Montgomery, her only thought was to avoid him. She later wished that she had taken his picture with her iPhone. So do I.

Changing his look

When Montgomery was spotted in the clown outfit, he was approximately 70 years old and 330 to 385 pounds. So why would a man who sneered about exotic wardrobes all his life, who never mentioned any connection with the peace-and-love ideals of the counterculture, suddenly dress like an overweight flower child?

Well, it turns out that Katoomba is known for its “artsy, hippie” lifestyle. One of the highlights of the year is the Katoomba Winter Magic Festival (see the wild photos here).

I assure you, Montgomery had no interest that type of event when I knew him. In fact, shortly after we became engaged, I went to the Philadelphia Folk Festival, which I’d attended for 20 years with a large group of friends. Although quite a few potheads in tie-died shirts roamed the campground, it was nothing like the Katoomba festival. Still, Montgomery refused to go.

So what has changed? Why is he now wearing round glasses with pink lenses? Necessity.

There are several hippie communes around Katoomba. I assume they are cheap places to live, and Montgomery who promised me that we’d be living “in the lap of luxury” is now surviving on a paltry pension. He’s probably living in one of the communes because it’s all he can afford.

If James Montgomery were going to live in Katoomba, he needed to blend in. So he reinvented himself as a hippie.

Devalue and discard

How is this possible? How to you change from a globetrotting entrepreneur to a hippie in a flowing caftan? For a sociopath, it’s as simple as changing clothes. Why? Because they are empty inside.

Sociopaths do not have character. They do not have deeply held convictions or beliefs. They do not have roots in their communities or ties with their families. They are shells of human beings, with no substance.

This is why they can walk away from any relationship, even marriages of 20 or 30 years, without a backward glance. Their only concern is what they can get from a person in the present moment. If their partner is no longer a useful sources of supply of money, support, connections, or whatever they see no reason to hang around. It’s the “devalue and discard” routine.

You may have observed the incredible lack of response when someone close to the sociopath, or close to you, dies. A sociopath may appear to be grief-stricken, but it’s an act, all for show. Or, the sociopath may not even bother, saying something like, “They’re gone. Get over it.”

No core

Sociopaths do not have the ability to form deep connections with any person, place or ideal outside of themselves. There is no core.

Instead, sociopaths live from exploit to exploit. When their circumstances change, they adapt. If one business idea fails, they blame someone else and come up with a new one. If one romantic partner dumps them, they already have another lined up. Sometimes they’re not even fazed by getting busted and going to prison it’s just a new place to run their con games.

We may have seen them proclaim head-over-heels love for us and then quickly do something to intentionally hurt us. Or, they may cry and grovel when we kick them out, and the minute we let them back, act as if nothing had happened.

They can do this because there is noting inside them. They are empty.

For those of us who can love, who can make lasting connections, it may be difficult to imagine the shallowness of this existence. So let me give you a visual. Just think of them as life-sized cardboard cut-outs of human beings. That’s really all they are.

 


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This reminded me of the time when we were married and I got a call from my ex’s daughter who told me that his father had died unexpectedly. They had found him in his living room, “asleep” in his chair. She then came over to our house to break the news to my ex in person. He got up for about 3 minutes, muttered something and then went back to sleep. Now he and his father has supposedly been very close (so he said) and I wondered how in the world could he be so unresponsive and totally unmoved. I never saw his cry a tear for him. He was like that ALL the time though. He explained it away that he was totally trusting in God for everything and that he was able to do that because of his “great faith” in God. I fell for it for years in wonder that he trust God that much. Now I realize that he felt nothing. The “cardboard cutout” describes him perfectly.

Wow–perfect description! My spath ex has been exposed as an embezzler–but still continues to play tennis at the club I that–I strongly believe–he embezzled from! I believe he is unable to reinvent himself right now, so just keeps trying to find people who still see him the way he used to portray himself. There are fewer and fewer of those!
To be honest, I wish he were living in a hippie commune somewhere. I am tired of seeing him playing his old role–however absurd it is.
Cardboard cutout–yes!

Tell me about it LL! I took wish I didn’t have to wonder all the time if mine is going to pop up at much church or church gathering or at the nearest convenient store. I did find out he has a new “quest” now, a girl he bragged about “rescuing” to his family. She is evidently from an abusive marriage and at least 30 years, maybe more, younger than him. My step-daughter said she also looks pregnant. Now I want rid of him but not to anyone else’s expense. It’s so sad to see him ruining the next woman’s life.

I hope your ex’s new mark–I mean girlfriend!–wises up soon, Linette!

And re: “grieving”. The first words out of my exes mouth when his father died (and I had believed he loved his dad) were “Oh my god–now we’re going to have to take care of my mother.”

That said it all…

I feel the same way. I used to hate this other “girl” he moved on with, now I feel sorry for her. But she initiated the affair and of course he “had” to go along with it. So I guess she asked for it. I don’t think he will treat her any better. The saddest part is that he traded his family of 20 years for some young, sexy co worker without looking back once. I am wondering if he feels the pain of losing his only child? Can they even recognize what kind of damage they caused. I know they don’t look back. It is just so difficult for me to see how a person can function like him, emotionless, cold hearted and no remorse or compassion.

No, they can’t feel the pain of losing their child–at least not in any meaningful way. They might miss some attention they got–if their child was good at school, or sports or something along those lines. Or they might miss the adulation they got at one time from a young child–the reflection of the person they purported to be. But that’s it.
I think one of the hardest things about this is accepting the way they think. It is so hard for those of us with a heart to understand.

My husbands ex-wife is a sociopath. She has been in and out of prison for embezzlement, fraud, uttering and publishing and stealing someone’s licence and pretending to be her. Because of this I had to raise her daughter with my husband. And after my step-daughter became 18 she moved to her mothers and never wanted anything to do with us. Somehow the ex convinced her that we were “bad” and “troubled”. Never understood why my step-daughter believed her. Especially when she wanted nothing to do with her while she was busy being a felon. And yet, when she got out of prison she started up several businesses. When one would fail she would start yet another. She even got my step-daughter in business with her and then fired her. LOL! I’m still frustrated by the fact that most people don’t realize she is a sociopath. And the fact that her face has been all over the newspaper in the local town doesn’t bother her. She acts as though nothing is wrong with her behavior. In fact, she seems proud. And because my step-daughter thinks she’s mother of the year makes me wonder if perhaps she is a sociopath herself.

Hellandback,

OMG! Such a typical story! How do these spaths get away with it??!! I feel bad if I’m late returning a library book! And yes–I think your stepdaughter may have the gene. Sigh. I’m sorry for you and your husband…

What a great term “cardboard cut-out” that is exactly what my ex Spath is. His friends don’t know him anymore, his ideals have completely changed, his mannerisms have completely changed, nothing about him is the same except his name. He went from being totally against the idea of an interracial relationship to being in one in less than a month. Now he is telling his boss that I am saying he is going to kill me and my kids and I have not ever said that nor have I spoken to him since the night of the 24th. I have put everyone on notice that should something happen to me they know where to look but I have a feeling he is trying to “bait me” and “flush me out” so that I will contact him…which will never happen.

If he does happen to be brave or crazy enough to show up at my house I will protect my self, my children, and my home with lethal force if need be.

Today makes 6 days NC and I feel great about it. Even pictures of him make me sick because I now see him for who he really is…a cardboard cut-out!!!!

Katareaux
First of all congrats on your sixth day of no contact. Your story is so similar to mine it’s unbelievable. When my husband tried to get a restraining order against me he also stated the exact same things. I also told people if I don’t show up for work I might be dead. Please check him out. That was my honest fear and in return I had to pay $1400 to my attorney to represent me in this injunction court hearing. The same applies to the interracial relationship. Wow the similarities are so crazy . I think I am on day 81. Still waiting for the courts to set a date in my divorce. His newest way to aggravate me is taking all his money away. Everything is his now. I am not sure what is coming next but I am ready for it. My attorney said we have to be on the edge with him. He is so much abusing his law enforcement “powers” it’s sickening to me. Stay strong. When you are on day 81 I will be passed 100 . Good luck my friend

The description “cardboard cut-out” is great! I also like “chameleon”.As they crawl around,they change with their surroundings-blending in-it’s their protection.

Although My mother died nearly 3 yrs ago,the way my spath used her death to hurt me,is still very fresh in my memory.Only this past summer was I finally able to receive closure as I again got to see my family after many yrs.He knew how close my mother and I were,and the fact that her death came so unexpectedly,he showed no empathy.He kept me home with him;since I don’t drive,I missed my mother’s memorial service.:(

Chameleons, for sure. My ex-husband changes his mannerisms and speech depending on who he is communicating with. I can’t begin to describe how confusing it was to see this upper middle class white guy adopt some weird urban lingo when talking to a young black man. The black guy and I both looked at him like he was crazy, it was just that fake. It didn’t occur to me at the time that the ex was trying to get this guy to lower his guard and relate to him on an emotional level, i.e. “I’m just like you!”.

Regarding Montgomery and his adaptation to changing circumstances – It’s been my experience that sociopaths fail and have to adapt to much less than what they originally wanted. But they never admit it to themselves or anyone else. Somehow they convince themselves this is what they really wanted after all. The last psycho I dated in 2011 wanted very much to be a thriving businessman. When I left, he gave up on that because he couldn’t manage it without me there. So now he’s living in a shack in the woods that doesn’t even have clean running water, and he takes odd jobs and sells dope to survive. I’m sure he’s convinced himself that was exactly what he wanted.

Good heavens Donna, you must feel a universe sized sense of relief when you hear things like this. And I don’t just mean having to hang with a dodgy hippy wannabe guru whos hit the tie dye with mung bean fuelled gusto. I wonder if he is trawling for acolytes? I guess we all go through times of reinvention, discard and growth. I know I have, but you take your core values and soul with you.
Cardboard cut out is a good way of describing them. Sometimes when its like I feel way too much, I almost envy them that. But then I remember I feel love, warmth, connection and joy that way too and I feel lucky

My ex was a Spanish lover to the spanish and now is a chinese lover to the Chinese.He is learning Chinese, with the same gusto as he tried to learn Spanish and put on accents and spanish airs and Spanish cooking to visitors. His house once full of spanish artefacts is now full of Chinese artefacts, according to his contacts at the moment. Once he was in love with Russia, with Patagonia, with Argentina,with Brazil, all was discarded and the artifacts he has thrown about in the spare room, the house is now dressed in Chinese red. Dont ask me to explain better,I hardly understand it, we are all bewildered by changes in his life, I was thrown out like a piece of rubbish, he abandoned the cat at its own devices and went to China, he does not have any relationship with the grandkids.This was my husband of 30 years, I unfortunately got myself involved with another sociopath before finally finding a normal man.

Spath learned some spanish (his first wife was spanish).He does know enough that he can speak it fairly well.He has also learned a few words in chinese-enough to try to carry a conversation.For someone who “acts” stupid-he’s pretty smart.I’m not able to pick up another language!

OMG–in some ways they are hilarious, right? It reminds me of that movie where Peter Sellers wore all those disguises. LOL!

Omg!I just remembered that spath was obsessed with watching “Columbo”!

Donna Рthis is a great article. Oh my Рhow weird to know Montgomery became a pseudo clown after wearing the fa̤ade of businessman. And all because it maybe benefitted him in the moment.

You wrote:

“We may have seen them proclaim head-over-heels love for us and then quickly do something to intentionally hurt us. Or, they may cry and grovel when we kick them out, and the minute we let them back, act as if nothing had happened.”

This happened to me last year after I had confronted my husband D about the crazy finances and began to make sure he paid me back $1000’s he owed me. I was tired of always paying all the bills while “his money was his own.” No more of that for me. So of course he talked about leaving – easy to leave a 30 year marriage right ? However, his plans to find another target must not have worked out and he said he “decided he loved me after all and would stay” and that I the wife should consider myself lucky. Then he proceeded to ” forget about it and all is well.”

He has done this several times in the marriage – the other times more outrageous and then when his alternate plans did not work out he would “come back” and act like “all is well.” This is all hindsight for me to realize that his coming back was not about his bond to me but rather about his failure to find a “better deal.”

At the time of all these incidences, family and friends told me to “get over it” as they all thought he was so magnanimous for “moving on” and having no drama about his actions. He was fine so why shouldn’t I be fine ?? I fell into the trap of seeing it that way over and over again. A marriage counselor we went to said she didn’t understand why I was so upset about his leaving me every other month since he “always comes back.” Really ?? No attention paid to how unstable he was / is. Everything on his terms all the time.

So – now I am “getting it.” And now I see that his ploy last year was just one more attempt to be impulsive and get out of paying his part of the financial obligations. And one telling statement that he made during that upheaval was that “we need to make sure we don’t say bad things about each other if we split.” His image was much more important than any other consideration. Classic.

I am so thankful for this site and other sites where I continue to learn and feel more confidence in my perceptions. It helps so much to tell my stories freely.

Great article – thank you so much.

OpalRose, I’ve come to realize the insidious covertness of their behavior much after my ex discarded me!!! George Simon calls it “whiplash”….We don’t realize how terribly we are being hurt until much later!!!

So true Imara. Btw I love to read George Simon’s articles. I haven’t read his books yet but have been thinking about reading ” character disturbance “.

4Light,
I read both his books and frankly liked “In Sheep’s Clothing” better. It clearly outlines the covert nature of much of the manipulation that we are put through….
Liked both the books…read them along with articles written by Sandra Brown, and both these authors helped me tremendously!!! Happy reading!! In the beautiful Pacific Northwest it is definitely starting to feel like fall….

I found an excerpt from In Sheep’s Clothing online and I am definitely going to read the entire book. It’s even better than I expected. The more I learn, the more I’m able to see just how common these behaviors are. Even though I’m happy to have my eyes open now I sometimes feel as if I’m living on a different planet now and am a little saddened by the loss of innocence. Thanks for the advice and Peace to you.

I try not being sad about how pathetic these people are. My ex, the sociopath, has infiltrated himself into a crossfit gym community. It’s sad how desperate sociopaths are to belong only to end up destroying every last relationship they have ever started, one by one, as time passes.

It’s always someone else’s fault, in the end, and they never point the accusing finger in the direction that matters: back at themselves! I’d love to ask one of them, just one of these fools: “If you’re so wonderful and powerful and evolved, why does everyone walk away from you and why do you need to continuously reinvent yourself?”

They wil never understand the differenc between LIVING in the moment and EXISTING in the moment:

1. To live in the moment, you must be fully aware of yourself and respect others whom you affect.

2. Existing in the moment is analogous to a bull in a china shop. That bull is certainly in the moment…a moment of destruction, chaos and utter disfunction.

Sociopaths aren’t really living; they’re existing.

opalrose,
Spaths hate to part with “their” money!He had agreed that if I paid the rent ($301),he would pay the cable.Bundle deal-phone,cable & internet;still far cheaper than the rent!Utilities were included in the rent.

He was in the nursing home for eleven monthes.As he was getting his apt set up,he had one of our daughters call me up and ask if I’d paid the cable bill off!The nerve of that guy!Because of his actions,the lease was terminated on the other apt,and I had to find another one and set it up.Then with half the income,I was barely getting by,and even though my income finally increased after six monthes,food stamps sharply decreased!!!

This explains how my narcissistic ex went from Comcast advertising executive to truck driver when he never showed an ounce of interest in the field and actually looked down his nose on blue collar workers.

That is so true how they hate to part with “their” money. I am going through the same now. Even though he has over 7000$ a month, he along with this attorney claim he is “poor”. It is some kind of control thing. If he cannot control me through his abuse anymore that only leaves the money tool. I will not give up though. Without me he would not be where he is now, this is why my divorce will be all about money. Nothing else. He already lost his son and stopped paying his college tuition even though he is well able to. It’s ok we have other options like loans etc. Money cannot buy him love, it might buy him some prostitutes but never the love of his only child.

OMG–the money! You are so right, Kaya, about the control. In the divorce we split everything 50/50 (eventually–because he wanted me to keep some of his criminal behavior quiet, and thought I could be bought off–HA!) Our house is still not sold. If he buys a LIGHT BULB, he is charging me half for it! I am not kidding. But he embezzled tens–probably hundreds–of thousands of dollars from his clients, and didn’t pay his self-employment tax for 20 years! He is always worried HE is being taken advantage of, but perfectly at ease taking advantage of others.

I recently told one of his clients that he had embezzled from her, so he took me to court to have child support reduced! He and his weasly attorney actually went before a judge and said that his income in now down $21,000/year, because I informed a client that he stole. And the judge did cut my support by $245. (The judge did sympathize with me, though he felt legally he had to do it. Kept the case open, to revisit.) Spath and his attorney tried to get the judge to reduce it even further–and make me pay maintenance to my ex!–because he had to pay the client $28,000 THAT HE STOLE! The judge was like, “Um. no.” LOL And the $28,000 is likely a drop in the bucket.

It is totally worth $245/month for me to have exposed this criminal for what he is.

Spath used money as just another way to control me.He wanted the house to be kept clean;yet he would complain about spending money on cleaning supplies(this from a morbidly obese man with psoriasis-both conditions only add to the maintenance issues in a home!)

I’m a frugal person,and yet with little more than half the income,I can still afford cleaning supplies and air freshners! It feels so good not to have him controlling me!

OMG this sounds like mine. He complained about the refrigerator and then when I purchased a new one hd blamed me and yelled at me for “wasting his hard earned money .” I now realize that we all have so many things on common. I was blamed for everything that broke, from appliances to a truck to one if the pets being sick. It was always my fault. Every day when I drive home from work, I pass an inpatient entail institution, I thank God for taking him out of my life. Because I slowly realize that he wanted one of 4 things to happen to me. Number 1, me being committed to a mental institution. Number 2, me having a stroke or a heart attack and being in a nursing home. Number 3 ,me being arrested and thrown in jail and finally Number 4, me being dead. I know 100 percent I made the right decision by filing for divorce. It literally saved my life.

kaya48,
We all have much in common because we were involved with sociopaths and they have so much in common!

He had to blame you because he sure wasn’t gonna take any blame!

I feel the same way as you, that spath wanted me to (1)Lose my sanity (2) Have a stroke or heart attack (3) die

I talked to my dad awhile ago.I was truly surprised that spath is still calling him since he recently told him off!But dad said spath still calls him on a daily basis.Dad was telling me that spath told him he’s not even going to show up Oct 15th(hearing for the PO)because it would cost him $15.00 to rent a wheelchair and he would have to get transportation to court.He told dad he HOPES I get the PO!What could he be thinking?!! Dad said spath evidently doesn’t know yet about me filing for divorce because he hasn’t mentioned it.

Hi Blossom. I had a similar situation in that I had one person in my life that was in a position where my Pseudowife would vent to her on almost a daily basis. This was a sibling of mine who was living in my home at the time. While she was here she would inform me of some of the more noteworthy derogatory insinuations and slandering. During this time I would say to my sister how happy and content the spath seemed to be and she would correct me immediately and say She Is Not Happy. She is miserable. According to my source she would on a daily basis spew negativity about me. It was extremely helpful to me in identifying which of my ” friends ” and local shepherds in my congregation who according to the spath think I’m coo coo. I had a couple opportunities to test my sources credibility on particulars and to my horror she was spot on. Without me babbling on too much about my situation, if you’re dad is open to it and has no illusions regarding the true character of your soon to be X ( can I get an amen ) the info can be useful to you. Unless you are extremely confident and realistic, I would say it’s an ill advised course. Be well.

4light2shine,
It made me extremely nervous when I first found out that spath was calling my dad! I could imagine all kinds of things;such as my dad being the next target if things don’t go the way spath wants them to.

I don’t try to get information from my daughters or my dad about spath,but it just sometimes comes out as we’re talking.They know that spath is only concerned for self,and don’t care for him.You’re right,the info can prove useful.

My situation is a little different from the last few posts. I won’t continue a relationship with anyone who has any contact with my ex–other than maybe accidentally running into him in a grocery store, or something. But even then, I’d hope they would avoid speaking to him. I know I would never acknowledge any of the spaths mentioned on this blog (assuming I knew who they were) if I ever was in a position to meet them. Just based on what I know about them–and the pain they have inflicted on their spouses and families–I would never be able to have a conversation with them. Ir even acknowledge their existence!
Yes, I have lost some friends–and even family–who weren’t able to come to terms with my request. Maybe they don’t understand completely, but there is enough evidence of the hurt and destruction my ex has inflicted on me and my children, that I would expect those who “loved” me to have nothing to do with him. Yes, it’s a loss, but I won’t tolerate that type of moral ambiguity. I just live with the fact that they’ve made a choice, and it’s not me.
Just more of the fallout from these destructive individuals…

I’d love to know if anybody else has seen the obssessive behaviours I saw in my ex husband, as I said before, getting absolutely hooked in one culture and after some months or even years completely dropping it in favour of another one, and so on and so on. Yes, it did reminded me of Peter Sellers…. exactly!
With him was countries, with other ones could be something else, I dont know, but has anybody seen that sort of thing?

Hi Donna and everyone,
I am doing better now, but something is bothering me, and it may relate to this article…
I have heard that the spath who duped me is now quoting Jesus on his facebook page (yes I blocked him) This really confuses me, as Jesus’s teachings were about love, caring, helping each other, etc. The very opposite of what I experienced with the spath. Is it really something they do? Invoke a religious figure and hide behind that as a facade? It makes no sense to me. I remember every detail of how I was manipulated, and I’m pretty sure they were the opposite of Christ’s teachings… Can anyone help me shed light on this? I am baffled and disturbed by this

Toknow, this took me ages to get my head around but spaths will do ANYTHING that gets them what they think they want. If they can get money, sex, adoration, attention, anything for their empty every starving egos they will adopt any persona for that. They are like children too, trying out the latest ‘dress up’ and thinking how well they do it, how amazing they are, how they fool everybody. Ever vigilant they are always on the look out for the next ‘upgrade’ sucker and they fit themselves to woo and catch that person by being everything they ever wanted.
This sounds harsh I know, I had to accept they were that devious, selfish and self serving and ONLY self serving. Anything that looks vaguely authentically compassionate or empathic is just another scam to get THEM what they want.

Ten years ago I would never have believed there were actually people walking around like that.

Toknow,

You just need to remember that these individuals have no core–and no beliefs. They just say whatever they feel will get them what they want. I know one of the problems I had was believing what my ex SAID–rather than looking at his actions! Because I would never be able to live with a disparity between what I said and what I actually felt, I tended to believe everyone was that way! Wrong! Spaths will profess all kinds of philosophies that they don’t really believe in. Their words and their values (HA!) are not in sync. So an spath who says he believes in Jesus may not. For them, it’s just words and manipulation.

I hope you will be able to ignore the things he says, and see him for what he is: just smoke and mirrors. Take care….

Dear toknow: I happen to be here tonight checking in, and I’m happy to address your question. Sociopaths OFTEN posture as religious people, claiming to be righteous and quoting the Bible. In fact, there are several articles here on that very subject. Look at all the pastor raping boys. There was one that claimed it was making them “pure” in some religious sense. A spath will pose as a very religious person because A) it’s a good tool to manipulate people, and B) they actually can convince themselves that they are so holy they are right up there with God. This is purely ego-driven because the sociopath is all ego and no authentic self. They are empty inside, so they adopt the persona that shines the best light on them. Some of the really crazy ones have a messianic complex. The moral of the story is you can’t always go by what someone tells you – you need to look at their behaviors to see if the walk the talk. Nowhere is this truer than with a sociopath. How can you tell if a sociopath is lying? Their lips are moving.

P.S. The one I dated also claimed to be devoutly religious. Same guy who was committing adultery, lying about it, and faking an elaborate illness to defraud the army out of a disability pension.

Wow! Thank you LL and Stargazer! I almost doubted my beliefs about him and thinking I was crazy! What you both said.makes so much sense, I.will digest that, thanks for the life raft! I couldn’t wrap my head around it, appreciate the perspective, as always 🙂

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