Lovefraud receives many letters from people who want a sign. Readers ask, “How do I know whether or not someone is a sociopath?” There is one behavior that every sociopath engages in to extreme excess. If I were only allowed one criteria for the diagnosis I would choose this behavior. If someone does not do this thing to extreme excess he/she is certainly not a sociopath. Those of you who have been involved with a sociopath know too well what this one thing is. It is lying.
I enjoy reading old religious texts because I believe there is truly nothing new under the sun. It is comforting to get reassurance of that fact. I mentioned some time ago that female sociopaths are described in the Bible. The cardinal symptom of sociopathy is described best in the Babylonian Talmud! One source I found dated this document to the 6th century.
The Babylonian Talmud describes something called geneivat da’at (literally, theft of one’s mind, thoughts, wisdom, or knowledge), i.e., fooling someone and thereby causing him or her to have a mistaken assumption, belief, and/or impression. The sages believed that there are seven types of thieves and, of these, the most egregious is the one who “steals the minds” of people.
Anyone who has been in contact with a sociopath has had his/her mind stolen. Sociopaths do not interact with anyone without stealing a mind.
Although sociopaths are very proud of their ability to steal minds, this behavior does not make them unique, talented or special. Sociopaths are just the worst species of thief!
Many are baffled by the lying sociopaths engage in. A reader who wrote me recently commented that they lie even when the truth sounds better. Sociopaths continue to lie even after their lies are discovered. This often makes them look silly.
Sociopaths lie in order to steal the minds of others. They do this because of an unrestrained drive for power and control. This drive is present in all of their dealings with others.
The best thing to do if your mind has been stolen by a sociopath is Take it Back! Don’t have any more interactions with that person. Accept that you can never deal with a sociopath without experiencing the theft of your mind.
EB –
why is Gem in NZ? Is she moving there or just on holiday?
(Geez – you miss a couple of days on here and everything changes. I’m gonna have to check in more often; WAY too slow to keep up otherwise…) 🙂
Just found this blog.
Before reading this thread, I read the one on the signs of dating a sociopath. The only sign that is not evident in my abusive ex (I separated a few months ago) is the lying and deception bit. Yet that is the biggest give-away of a sociopath. I just don’t understand that bit – he prides himself in being full of integrity and hates liars. The time he got in trouble with the law was for assaulting our child, and that was because our child lied to him. And when the police questioned him, he immediately admitted it. Also, he is very responsible at work and has never defrauded anyone nor does he have a history of lying or cheating behind my back.
Either he was very good at lying and fooled me completely (I still can’t think what he lied about), or there are some sociopaths that fit every symptom but lying. I’m not saying that he doesn’t have thinking errors or isn’t delusional, that is believing lies about himself and others, what I mean is deliberately telling untruths. He used to own up or admit stuff because he says he is not like those type of despicable conmen who lie. And he would be very angry if he thought I lied to him, which made me walk on eggshells. Even now, if something I put in a legal letter is not completely true, he interrogates and punishes me for it, even if the spirit of it is true.
I’m not trying to figure him out because I am not interested in helping him, but I do want to find out more so I can protect myself in the future with others.
Does anyone get what I mean? That someone can be an abusive, violent sociopath who prides himself on being above-board? Or maybe some are violent/abusive but not sociopaths?
Hello Not too late – people can be violent and abusive without being a sociopath.
I too, think lying defines a sociopath.
And a big and hard to believe truth is that spaths are outrageously good at lying, it is ‘what they do’. your line in your above post, ‘he says he is not like those type of despicable conmen who lie’, is a ‘tell.’ spaths tell us what and who they are by what they project on to us and others, the things they say someone else did, and the they say they would never do. (I gotta ask, why was he comparing himself to a lying conman to begin with?)
truth is, they usually have lies at hand to reveal as truths once caugth in the first lie….they are layered in deception; it’s a dense and deceptive layering, it’s what masquerades as a self.
Dear Nottoolate,
about 75%, by statistics, of Domestic Abusers are also classified as psychopaths (sociopaths) and chronic and pathological lying is a hall mark, but there are people who are very narcissistic and controlling who are so convinced of their own superiority and their own right to CONTROL that behave in abusive ways to others (thinking that they have the RIGHT to control because they are superior) that might not be outright “liars” but really, it doesn’t matter WHY someone abuses, the point is that they are NOT GOING TO BE CONVINCED that they do not have the RIGHT to abuse others, control others.
My egg donor (I would formerly have called her my mother, but mothers have to EARN that title I think by more than giving birth, so I refer to her as my egg donor) is one who PRIDES herself on being a “good Christian” and “not lying” as well, however she DOES LIE (it took me DECADES to be sure she was lying) and she DOES abuse, punish and control and while she might not qualify for a professional diagnosis of a “psychopath” if she was being assessed for a diagnosis by a professional, none the less, she is TOXIC and behaves in many ways as a controlling and abusive person in a relationship. She thinks she has a direct pipe line to God himself, so therefore she is doing what is “right” by punishing anyone who doesn’t agree with her. (Me for a start) It is family tradition for the women in our family to “protect” the Family’s males who do wrong or are abusers. I refused to protect and enable my psychopathic son who is in prison for MURDER, so therefore she PUNISHES ME.
In her eyes, she is only doing her “christian duty” to “forgive” and protect him even though 3 years ago he actually sent a man (former cell mate of his) to kill me because I cut him out of an inheritance. (he would profit greatly if I were to die before she does due to the terms of a trust). She knows this, she knows the man who was sent went to prison, she read all the letters from my son to him, telling him out to “manage” our family, etc. and STILL she sends money to my psychopathic son and condemns me. She sits front and center in church three times a week, and has the world convinced she is a “sweet little old lady”—but I have SEEN BEHIND the mask. I have CAUGHT her in the lies. Always before if I found what appeared to be a “lie” she would explain some technical reason it wasn’t a lie….like Bill Clinton saying “I did not have SEX with that woman.” Well, clinton’s version of what was “sex” didn’t have anything to do with cigars or oral copulation apparently. That was the way my egg donor would “define” her way out of a lie, or “oh no, I didn’t say I would DO that, I said I had no “plans” to do that.” That is called gaslighting someone, twisting your understanding or twisting reality to make you think YOU are crazy. It is deception, and if you look up deception in the dictionary it is LYING.
Many psychopaths who would tell the “technical truth” ‘are still deceptive and still dangerous, controlling. I think the POWER TRIP, and the CONTROL trip are the things that most show up. Lies are only one way to control and assume power.
I’m glad you are away from this man, the “feeling of walking on egg shells” is a GOOD TIP off that you are around a control freak. ANY control freak is TOXIC and you cannot fix them or have a relationship with them that is anything close to fair or rewarding.
Keep on reading here, there’s a lot of great stuff here. And WELCOME to a great place to learn—about them, and about yourself. How to protect yourself and how to heal. They take a great toll on our souls, but we can and do heal. They will always stay the same. God bless.
Hi not too late – he assaulted your child….big flags waving here. No excuse for assaulting a CHILD lies or no lies. What does assault achieve?
If a supermarket cashier over charged me would I assault her? No. I would calmly find out why she’d done it, ie genuine mistake? maybe she was under stress, overworked, hard up, tired. I would attempt to resolve the situation – I would not assault her.
And why was the child lying in the first place? Had she/he outwitted the spath and he felt threatened?
Not too Late,
You have a responsibility as a parent to protect your child from abuse.
Once he assaulted your child, it was over. Period.
No analysis required.
Going forward now, your responsibility has not changed. Make your decisions from the perspective of defending your child from being abused.
That means be very,very careful about who comes into the world you share with that child.
If you are not DEAD SURE that who ever you invite in is safe and sane then don’t!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The keys are good manners and a visiable and active social circle. Start there when you look at and look into other people.
But put your kid first. Its your job.
Hey, Silver!!! Good advice to Nottoolate, and good to see you! Happy new year to you!!!! (((hugs))))
Not to late: My liar hated lies. It was a good cover for all of his. Worked quite well for a while….
True Grit-I recommend the movie and love these old gospel lyrics sung by the late Johnny Cash on the website trailer;)
but then I was born 100 years to late…
“you can run on for long time, run on for long time, run on for long time, sooner or later God’ll cut you down”
“go tell that long tongue liar, go tell that midnight rider,
tell the rambler, gambler, back-biter,
tell em God is gonna cut em down”
Happy New Year to all of you- and welcome 2011!
Oh, yes.
Mine hated thieves.
and being called a liar, “don’t EVER call me a liar, I’m not a liar!”
“I HATE thieves, there is nothing worse than a theif!”
Me thinks thou dost protest TOO much!
mine, being soooo sweet couldn’t hate anybody!
all the sock puppets went on and on and on about being prey,being stalked and people ‘taking things that were ot offered’ (aka trying to find out who the F*** they were really dealing with by using search engines).
tell! tell! tell!
sigh.