By Ox Drover
I was led to believe as a child that we should “love unconditionally” and that we should “forgive unconditionally.” This was the rule around our house. I did start to notice, though, that while I was to apply this “unconditional forgiveness and love” to others, those same people did not always apply it to me.
When my children were born, I felt the first real and true “unconditional” love I had ever felt for anyone. I would gaze into the crib and watch my child sleep, little fists curled up, ten perfect little fingers with ten perfect little finger nails. The warmth of this truly “unconditional” love swept through my heart and made my eyes tear up with joy.
Even when my two-year-old son poured a full box of fish food into the aquarium and I had to clean it out and change the water the second time in a week, I did not stop loving him or hold a grudge against him for his behavior. I took the responsibility for his actions because I had left the fish food where he could reach it, and he didn’t know any better. I laughed as I cleaned out the aquarium that I would be so dumb to leave it where he could reach it a second time.
As my children grew and became more independent and self motivated teenagers, I would occasionally become quite frustrated and even angry with them for some of their behavior, especially defiant behavior, but it never dawned on me to not forgive them, or to hold a grudge or to stop loving them, no matter what they did, or even to fear them. I had no concept at that time, that one of my children might actually wish in a long term continuing way to do me harm. My love for them was, I thought, absolutely “unconditional.” Just as my love for my mother, I thought, was unconditional. No matter how angry I got, I knew that I loved her and no matter what she did that upset me or hurt me, it never dawned on me that I could ever stop loving her or that the things she did actually came from a deep down desire to control me, even if this resulted in my harm.
Though there was somehow a difference in how I was required to give her “unconditional forgiveness” and forget about anything she had ever done to me, while she would frequently and critically remind me of things I did as a defiant teenager, I still believed I loved her unconditionally, just like I loved my kids unconditionally, no matter what they did or said.
Throughout many years I held on to this belief, which, I am finding out now, is a fantasy. There are behaviors so heinous that I can no longer love someone. So, in truth, my love for my mother and even my love for my children is not truly “unconditional.” In truth, forgiveness does not include trust and a resumption of a relationship with that person if what they have done is so heinous that you fear them.
I realized that fearing a person precluded me from actually loving them. When you love someone you trust them. When you don’t trust someone, you can’t really love them. WOW! What a revelation for me! If I am afraid of a person, I cannot truly love them. I can be angry with someone I love, I can even be furious with someone I love. If I am afraid of a person, can’t trust them not to hurt me intentionally, how can I love that person at the same time? For me, it was impossible.
I might love the “fantasy” of them, but not the actual scary person that is the real them. When I realized, finally, that my psychopathic son wanted me dead and I began to be afraid of him, I realized the man sitting in a prison cell was truly evil, malicious and dangerous. I also realized I was a fool if I did not take the threat seriously. Then the “love” I had felt, that I had believed was truly unconditional, seeped out, and one day I realized it was gone.
My other biological son, who was at that same time married to a psychopath himself, had distanced himself from me, disappointed me, and to some extent devalued me, which saddened me, but I still loved him ”¦ because I was not afraid of him. In spite of everything, I realized he would not ever deliberately hurt me, or want to deliberately hurt me. Yet, I realized that if he became dangerous to me, or I started to fear him as well, that I would not be able to continue to love him either.
When my “good” son’s wife (now ex-wife) tried to kill him after he found out about the affair she was having with a psychopath, his “unconditional” love for her also evaporated. He started to realize that she was dangerous. Before the attack on my son with a gun by her and her boyfriend, my son had found out about the affair and offered to “go to counseling” and to “work it out” with her. He loved her, and her affair was not something that made him afraid of her. It was only his fear of her after the attempted murder that made him able to detach from his love from her. His love that he had thought was unconditional, his commitment to the marriage that he thought was total, was destroyed by the fear for his life.
I had always thought my loyalty and commitment to my family members and friends was total and unconditional. When I started to experience true fear of some of these people, it made me realize that the only unconditional love in the universe is God’s. The Bible tells me to “love” my enemies and pray for them, but the “love” commanded in the Bible is not the feeling, in my opinion, that we normally call, in English, “love.” The “love” commanded for our enemies means to do “good to them” rather than seek revenge, but it has nothing to do with the “love” we feel, that “squishy” feeling I had leaning over my infant’s crib. It was not that loving commitment to my child that meant I would have thrown my body in front of an attacker, freely giving my life to save my child.
On a thread on Lovefraud some time back, a blogger (whose name I no longer remember) wrote that it is noble of us to throw ourselves in front of a bus to save our loved one, but not when the bus is being driven by the psychopath we are trying to save! I can’t think of a better analogy that this one.
In the end, I realized that no healthy love is truly “unconditional.” I also realized that boundaries are healthy, and that I needed to learn to set boundaries. I needed to protect myself from attacks, and that my fear or distrust of someone precludes me from having a relationship with that person. Fear precludes me from loving them.
For most of my life I tried to live up to the fantasy of “unconditional love” for those in my family, even those in my family who were psychopaths. It never felt right to me, but at the same time, I was committed to this stance because it was what I thought was “normal” and “expected.” When my family devalued me, when the “unconditional” love from them depended on controlling me, using me, abusing me, and then instilling fear into me, I finally “saw the light.” I realize now that real love is kind, love is caring, love is respectful, love is many good things, but it is never about control, never about punishment, never about deliberately inflicting pain or fear. Healthy love is never completely “unconditional.”
My alocholic psychopathic father kicked my dog (the dog had a limp)to death when I was five. Shortly after that he broke my P mothers neck. I was there ringside at both of these “fabulous” events. My P brother wasn’t.
Dear Learn the lesson,
Having dealt with EXACTLY almost word for word a “child” about that age who was/is a violent homicidal psychopath, I find that you “grasping at straws” of “HOPE” may be a bit over the top in “compassion” which is what the psychopaths use…up to now he has convinced some of the adults that are outside the family that he is a “poor abused young man” with an abusive uncaring mother who is so “mean” to him and that is why he is rebelling at home.
Today, the REAL issue–CONTROL–came out to one of those people when he became so angry that he “LOST it” and showed CLEARLY what is going on with him. My P-son is VERY good at holding his mask over his face, but occasionally he jwill become so frustrated at me not sucking up to his lies and manipulation he will lose it and let it slip. Two years ago he was trying to use the “Mommmm, what would Jesus do?” line and I wasn’t buying it to let it manipulate me adn after an hour or so of this, his MASK SUDDENLY SLIPPED and he said (now this is in a prison visiting room) “You wouldn’t like me so much if you knew the REAL truth about my crime (murder) it was MUCH WORSE than even the cops knew. But I’m not going to tell you (like this would punish me)!
I was STARTLED (I imagine like the counselor was today) and kept my affect flat as he went on, then I responded, “What could have been worse than putting a gun to a young woman’s head and pulling the trigger. Did you rape her first, burn her with cigarettes, make her beg for her life?”
Then his eyes changed and he went right back to “But Mommm, what would Jesus do?” AND NEVER MISSED A BEAT, just like Wit’send’s son coming home and acting like nothing happened.
By age 16 my son had decided he would manipulate his grandmaother and pretend to be such a repentent kid, but behind her back he robbed and stole, even stole from her and my step dad. With ME, because I did not buy his shit and did not TRUST HIM AT ALL, because I knew he did nothing but lie, he was DEFIANT to my face, just as Wit’s kid is to her. He hated me. He didn’t respect my egg donnor but he didn’t hate her cause he could manipulalte her.
He even said to the Trojan horse psychopath when they were planning my murder, “Don’t worry about pissin g off my mom, just watch out and don’t piss off my grandmother, but she (GM) ALWAYS TAKES MY SIDE, so pissing off mom is no big deal.”
This young man is trying to figure out how he can become “independent” and still have all teh bennies he wants from others supplying them. BUT he has NO intention of being under ANYONE’s control. Again, it is not how he acted in this case, but when they are angry and let the mask slip, they let the REAL THEM shine through, and the eyes are like LOOKING DIRECTLY INTO SATAN’S FACE.
A “normal” obnoxious egocentric arsehole of a teenager in all their GLORY is NOTHING COMPARED TO A NARCISSISTIC RAGE IN A YOUNG PSYCHOPATH and they are the MOST dangerous in my opinion because they have the “teenaged” lack of fear or impulse control.
I FEAR FOR WIT’s LIFE MORE THAN I FEAR SHE WILL NOT BE ABLE TO “find a way to help” her son.
I have worked with these kids
Witsend: The best thing that happened today is that this counselor got a serious wake-up call when she saw your son drop his mask.
For the past 8 months or so you’ve been getting the run-around by people who think the way “Learn” is thinking. You don’t need any more of it.
From your descriptions — and I know you would try to make things look as wonderful as possible — your son sounds as if he has that “twist” in his thought processes that means all the “encouragement, compassion, and communication techniques” will not shift anything. I don’t know that even trying to “scare him straight” will help.
The big shift is that this counselor may have seen something that no one except you has seen up until now. You need all the help she can give you while she is AWAKE to this, and before she lulls herself back into complacency because “I couldh’t have seen THAT!”
Learn & Witsend: At this point top psychopathy researchers agree that the disorder is “dimensional” — in other words, an individual can be psychopathic to a lesser or greater degree.
Some of us have had experience with those on the furthest extreme of the spectrum. Learn’s advice is way, way off the mark for people who have shown the degree of rage and also control that Witsend’s son has demonstrated. Witsend’s son is more frightening BECAUSE he can appear to be the troubled, defiant teen that Learn knows in her own home. His behavior is very different, and far more troubling.
Witsend needs a professional who saw what this counselor saw who will be her advocate. She doesn’t need a mediator to help the boy go to camp.
LTL, Oxy, Rune
Earlier today I believed my day was going to be spent to SOMEHOW get the lady at the prosecuting att. office to see that I really needed something she could give me. and that would be to go in front of a judge to plead my case for what they call “informal” probation.
Because in MY HEART I believe that my last hope is to see if this would SCARE THE HELL OUT of him. I think this is the one thing that yet to happen.
ALOT has happened since earlier today.
He does this often actually….After a “big” outbreak acts as nothing has happened. Its ALL a part of his fantasy world.
It contributes to my own personal “fog” that I have to try and see clearly through? I call it trying to distort MY REALITY…..
I wasn’t even there…Yet….
I could hear it through the phone how out of control he was. What he said. HOW he said it. I heard him grabbing and shuffling with his STUFF before he left the room. Before I heard her ask where he was going. THIS IS THE SECOND TIME HE WALKED OUT of a counseling session. Different counselor, different place, SAME BEHAVIOR. When he says session over..It’s OVER.
I am not sure if his silence or his anger is what I should fear the most? His silence almost un-nerves me. Its the brooding type of silence…..I guess what I am saying is his silence is his anger, right now.
I feel like I have to have a plan. And all of my energy thus far has been on having a plan for him. Now I think I also need a plan for myself. I also need to think straight as right now I am not able to concentrate on anything for 5 minutes.
Witsend: I’m here paying close attention. Do we need to put a plan together right now? I agree with you. I’ll brainstorm with you if you like.
Dear Witsend,
My suggestion is that if AT ALL POSSIBLE, TONIGHT you “casually” go either to a motel or a friend’s house and spend the night, AWAY from him. Leave him there alone, and if possible also see ifyou can find a FRIEND, preferably MALE who will come and stay with you for a few days at your home.
Don’t worry about him trashing your house while you are gone, if he does, it is an excuse to have him arrested. the comment me made about trying to stay out of the hands of the LAW may mean he has at least SOME impulse control, (which might be a good sign) as he is thinking ahead SOME at leaast, but his BROODING SILENT RAGE is also VERY disturbing to me. My son would do that, and was quite able to control his impulses as he made his PLANS for mayhem.
I think that the counselor calling him on his “reality” that he is a 16 year old and NOT “independent” was what it took to give him NARCISSISTIC INJURY leading to the RAGE and FRUSTRATION he is experiencing. He is so frustrated by not being 100% in CONTROL that I am afraid he might ACT OUT physically—BETTER SAFE THAN SORRY.
I understand that starting to FEAR your own child, the child that you love, is as BAD AS IT GETS, but if we stay in the FOG we wind up like that lovely sweet beautiful girl Kelsi, a statistic. KIDS DO KILL THEIR PARENTS for just this sort of issues—CONTROL. As he sees it, the ONLY thing standing between him and complete independence is this STUPID and malicious, nagging old bitch and the counselors and teachers that are as stupid and nagging as she is. If it weren’t for you, he would be FREE and IN CONTROL.
Yea, just like my bright, cunning and malicious son sits in his prison cell, IN COMPLETE CONTROL OF HIS OWN LIFE—he PROVED TO ME I COULDN’T CONTROL HIM. BOY, WAS HE EVER RIGHT, I COULDN’T.
My prayers continue for you without stopping. (((Hugs))))
Dear Oxy and Rune
I was just offering my suggestions as you were both offering yours.
I have opinions too about your view, but I will not belittle yours . And to make it appear as tho I merely wanted a mediator to help get Witsends son to camp. Is really unfortunate. Couldnt be further from the truth as you can read in all my posts…
If this were my child (refusing to do chores, or go to school or flying off handle in counsellors office or leaving without telling me where he is going or coming home and acting like nothing happened and showing no signs of physical violence toward me, but signs of depression and potentional disorder.)…that is the route I would take, today, in this moment , with the counsellor on board… I would seize the creative opportunity to see where my child goes with it and how my child reacts to the counsellor offering an avenue…a way out… a way to begin to change…
I would remove myself from the conversation and picture and I would see how my child reacts with the counselor offering to build a bridge and with a guideline for my child to begin to follow if its my childs choice to TRY THAT…
People who think the way that “Learn” is thinking….would be people who agree professional help is needed but today in the moment Learn would asking for the counsellor to work creatively with me until professional help or a program or a judge intervenes. Im not grasping at straws of hope…I am suggesting the counsellor offer a compromise to Witsends son. And as I said he may pass or choose it.
I am not a professional and my advice is always a suggestion.
Learn: Ox-Drover is a mental health professional. She is seeing behavior that replicates some of the most disturbing behavior she has seen in mental health institutions. I know this from her other posts.
Learn: From Witsend’s description, her son decompensated when his carefully constructed set of fabrications was challenged in an undeniable way — with his mother on speakerphone in the counselor’s office. A 16-year-old breaking down in that fashion is likely to be a man-child prepared to do mayhem. The most dangerous time with a psychopathic individual is when they are exposed. That is what has just happened.