By Ox Drover
I was led to believe as a child that we should “love unconditionally” and that we should “forgive unconditionally.” This was the rule around our house. I did start to notice, though, that while I was to apply this “unconditional forgiveness and love” to others, those same people did not always apply it to me.
When my children were born, I felt the first real and true “unconditional” love I had ever felt for anyone. I would gaze into the crib and watch my child sleep, little fists curled up, ten perfect little fingers with ten perfect little finger nails. The warmth of this truly “unconditional” love swept through my heart and made my eyes tear up with joy.
Even when my two-year-old son poured a full box of fish food into the aquarium and I had to clean it out and change the water the second time in a week, I did not stop loving him or hold a grudge against him for his behavior. I took the responsibility for his actions because I had left the fish food where he could reach it, and he didn’t know any better. I laughed as I cleaned out the aquarium that I would be so dumb to leave it where he could reach it a second time.
As my children grew and became more independent and self motivated teenagers, I would occasionally become quite frustrated and even angry with them for some of their behavior, especially defiant behavior, but it never dawned on me to not forgive them, or to hold a grudge or to stop loving them, no matter what they did, or even to fear them. I had no concept at that time, that one of my children might actually wish in a long term continuing way to do me harm. My love for them was, I thought, absolutely “unconditional.” Just as my love for my mother, I thought, was unconditional. No matter how angry I got, I knew that I loved her and no matter what she did that upset me or hurt me, it never dawned on me that I could ever stop loving her or that the things she did actually came from a deep down desire to control me, even if this resulted in my harm.
Though there was somehow a difference in how I was required to give her “unconditional forgiveness” and forget about anything she had ever done to me, while she would frequently and critically remind me of things I did as a defiant teenager, I still believed I loved her unconditionally, just like I loved my kids unconditionally, no matter what they did or said.
Throughout many years I held on to this belief, which, I am finding out now, is a fantasy. There are behaviors so heinous that I can no longer love someone. So, in truth, my love for my mother and even my love for my children is not truly “unconditional.” In truth, forgiveness does not include trust and a resumption of a relationship with that person if what they have done is so heinous that you fear them.
I realized that fearing a person precluded me from actually loving them. When you love someone you trust them. When you don’t trust someone, you can’t really love them. WOW! What a revelation for me! If I am afraid of a person, I cannot truly love them. I can be angry with someone I love, I can even be furious with someone I love. If I am afraid of a person, can’t trust them not to hurt me intentionally, how can I love that person at the same time? For me, it was impossible.
I might love the “fantasy” of them, but not the actual scary person that is the real them. When I realized, finally, that my psychopathic son wanted me dead and I began to be afraid of him, I realized the man sitting in a prison cell was truly evil, malicious and dangerous. I also realized I was a fool if I did not take the threat seriously. Then the “love” I had felt, that I had believed was truly unconditional, seeped out, and one day I realized it was gone.
My other biological son, who was at that same time married to a psychopath himself, had distanced himself from me, disappointed me, and to some extent devalued me, which saddened me, but I still loved him ”¦ because I was not afraid of him. In spite of everything, I realized he would not ever deliberately hurt me, or want to deliberately hurt me. Yet, I realized that if he became dangerous to me, or I started to fear him as well, that I would not be able to continue to love him either.
When my “good” son’s wife (now ex-wife) tried to kill him after he found out about the affair she was having with a psychopath, his “unconditional” love for her also evaporated. He started to realize that she was dangerous. Before the attack on my son with a gun by her and her boyfriend, my son had found out about the affair and offered to “go to counseling” and to “work it out” with her. He loved her, and her affair was not something that made him afraid of her. It was only his fear of her after the attempted murder that made him able to detach from his love from her. His love that he had thought was unconditional, his commitment to the marriage that he thought was total, was destroyed by the fear for his life.
I had always thought my loyalty and commitment to my family members and friends was total and unconditional. When I started to experience true fear of some of these people, it made me realize that the only unconditional love in the universe is God’s. The Bible tells me to “love” my enemies and pray for them, but the “love” commanded in the Bible is not the feeling, in my opinion, that we normally call, in English, “love.” The “love” commanded for our enemies means to do “good to them” rather than seek revenge, but it has nothing to do with the “love” we feel, that “squishy” feeling I had leaning over my infant’s crib. It was not that loving commitment to my child that meant I would have thrown my body in front of an attacker, freely giving my life to save my child.
On a thread on Lovefraud some time back, a blogger (whose name I no longer remember) wrote that it is noble of us to throw ourselves in front of a bus to save our loved one, but not when the bus is being driven by the psychopath we are trying to save! I can’t think of a better analogy that this one.
In the end, I realized that no healthy love is truly “unconditional.” I also realized that boundaries are healthy, and that I needed to learn to set boundaries. I needed to protect myself from attacks, and that my fear or distrust of someone precludes me from having a relationship with that person. Fear precludes me from loving them.
For most of my life I tried to live up to the fantasy of “unconditional love” for those in my family, even those in my family who were psychopaths. It never felt right to me, but at the same time, I was committed to this stance because it was what I thought was “normal” and “expected.” When my family devalued me, when the “unconditional” love from them depended on controlling me, using me, abusing me, and then instilling fear into me, I finally “saw the light.” I realize now that real love is kind, love is caring, love is respectful, love is many good things, but it is never about control, never about punishment, never about deliberately inflicting pain or fear. Healthy love is never completely “unconditional.”
Dear Witsend,
Glad you are able to try to focus on work today…hope you are able to.
As I brainstorm with you, I wanted to also suggest these different programs offered for “troubled teens”… maybe asking your old pediatrician over the phone if she is aware of any success stories (she has known your son almost all of his life, although they dont accept insurance, she is able to return your call and you can tell her where you are with him….
Since it is unclear exactly what is brewing with him…maybe you can gather a list of 10 places and call them… maybe even add military school into the mis…there is government assistance, financial aide, and there are trained personnel who can discuss with you exactly what you are experiencing with your teenager … I looked into How do I help my troubled teen…. there is testimony there from parents that says your exact same words, descriptions and concerns about their teenager…the loud acting out, the sudden silence, the abrut explosive energy, the deceit, some mention drug use , some mention pulling away from family and friends, acting out physically,….etc….
I thought if you reached out to several programs…spoke with many different directors who have hands on experience and may even be able to tell you answers to some of your direct questions about your son.
Again, I am trouble shooting and sharing WHAT I WOULD BE DOING AS THE DAYS PASS … here is one that I found…but again I would call your old pediatrican she has had a relationship with you and your son…and ask her if she could possibly give you a recommendation as to what she has been suggesting for troubled teens in her practice.
http://www.helpmyteen.com/ Offering Adolescent Services/Adolescent Placement.
I am suggesting this from the position that your son may not be a Psychopath…but I dont know…this is just an alternative suggestion…
Take care! Good luck…. Peace and prayers everyday to you …xoxo
ps….this is for Oxy,
You made reference to some possible PTSD responding to the undeniable care and concern for physical and violent abuse toward anybody here, including Witsend..
I just want you to know that I think your reaction was warranted and supported…I believe one can never care too much about anothers safety..and you adding your experience and professional knowledge and heart is paramount and so effective in helping others…
As you so profoundly said… “If you are TOO CAUTIOUS about your own safety, what have you lost, but if you are not cautious ENOUGH what is the potential risk?”
Together we can all offer valuable and different support and advice for Witsend…
Im thinking of you…truly…and hope I have not upset you. xoxo Learn
Witsend…
As I sit in the nurses office… I have had time to look up other possible connections, suggestions… This group has been around for six years about l60 members (parents struggling with every dimension, and discussions on solutions the GOOD and THE BAD)…
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/parents_who_need_help/summary
Also this is one moms account:
“Elisa was a very quite child and when she grew up she turned silent and sometimes extremely violent. Her blue eyes would remind me of her father. I think the anger had also come from him. Elisa had sudden jerks of anger and she could hurt herself or break something in the house.
I think this misbalance had come from the fact that she does not have a father. The lack this authority had left some empty space in her life. Maybe this had made her a troubled teen. I was aware of troubled teens schools and boot camps but I did not have the money to send her to those expensive schools.
By the time I could gather some money, I came to know that she had become too violent not only at home but in school too. I did not know where this girl was going. Her principal called me and told me that Elisa is rusticated for a month and she asked me to send her to a troubled teen school. She could understand that it is almost impossible for a single mother to spend so much money on a troubled teen school. But this meeting was very fruitful to me as she told me that some insurance cover a certain part of the payment as it is considered to be an illness. I ran to my insurance to find out and successfully Elisa was enrolled in a troubled teen school….”
This is from a different perspective, as there are people who believe the boot camps and troubled teen schools are a breeding ground for abuse and neglect… interesting article to read.
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2007/08/what-works-troubled-teens?page=1
AND THIS IS SOMETHING THAT IVE HEARD ABOUT BEFORE, AS AN ALTERNATVE TO SCHOOLS, OUT OF HOME/STATE PROGRAMS…
http://www.findyouthinfo.gov/cf_pages/programdetail.cfm?id=29
Functional Family Therapy
James F. Alexander
Department of Psychology
380 South 1350 East, #502
University of Utah
Salt Lake City, UT 84112
Phone: (801) 581-6538
Fax: (801) 581-5841
E-mail: jfafft@psych.utah.edu
Web site: http://www.fftinc.com
Technical Assistance Provider
Holly DeMaranville
FFT Communications Director
1611 McGilvra Blvd. East
Seattle, WA 98116
Phone: (206) 369-5894
Fax: (206) 664-6230
E-mail: hollyfft@comcast.net..
I think I will leave the rest in your hands …:) I heard you yesterday when you said you REALLY NEED a plan…dont know if any of this is helpful or not…but brainstorm with everyone when it comes to the health and safety of a wonderful mom and her teenager in crisis…
Stay strong, from what Ive learned today you really do need all the support and love and understanding possible..
There’s so many religious implications when one talks about “unconditional love”. I know most major religious beliefs promote it in one way or another.
I can only speak about my own religious & spiritual beliefs, in learning and practicing Tibetan Buddhism. But from what I understand of Christianity, the Bible’s call for “love thy neighbor” seems to be something along the same lines.
When I read something or hear His Holiness the Dalai Lama speak of “unconditional love”, it gives me a good feeling. And I have that same good feeling when I hear something quoted from the Bible about loving your fellow man.
But I have to say when I, sometimes, hear certain people profess about how people should “love unconditionally”, it gives me a sour taste.
It’s because it seems like many times, some people who opine about unconditional love, are those who need others to love them unconditionally, because they would get no affection at all unless people loved them unconditionally, because they are either unwilling or incapable of being and behaving in ways that are lovable!
The Dalai Lama says “true unconditional love expects nothing in return”. The key word there is “expects”.
I do believe in love & peace… even “unconditionally”. But I too believe that’s a somewhat distinctly different meaning of love than the ACTION most people think of when you say the word love.
And it’s certainly a different version of love than what’s been twisted by sociopaths and other selfish people.
For example, when His Holiness the Dalai Lama speaks of a sort of unconditional love as the path to peace… The idea is that there’s one truth that applies to all humans — That all humans do not want to suffer.
I understand this to mean that it would be wrong to deliberately impose suffering on another person.
In Buddhist practice, this type of love does NOT mean you have to perform personal intimate loving acts personally to a sociopath, or anyone else. It just means that you’re not torturing other people, nor denying them basic human rights, nor deliberately going out of your way to violate their dignity.
It does NOT mean that if a sociopath ACTS like he’s suffering because you won’t do something he wants you to do, that you’re supposed to do what he wants you to do, to alleviate his supposed pain. That’s not how it works.
A concrete example might be this. You know an alcoholic person. (Maybe a sociopath, maybe not, it doesn’t matter.) The person is addicted to alcohol, and the person may act, and genuinely seem, like they need the alcohol to stop their suffering. And, in a sense, there’s some truth to that. There would be a temporary ‘fix’ to their pain by the intake of more alcohol. But pain is not the same thing as suffering. In reality, more booze would prolong their suffering. So it does NOT mean that as an act of compassion, you need to go out & buy booze for the person. But if you happen to be present when they’re having serious withdrawal, and perhaps in danger of having a seizure from withdrawal from alcohol, the “Right Action”, (ie: the morally right thing to do), would be to call an ambulance or something so they can get proper medical attention. The alcoholic themselves may not, at that moment, see it as an act of love & compassion. They might believe that the loving thing to do would be to get them booze. But that’s not the truth. Directing them to medical attention would be the act of compassionate, unconditional, love.
That’s why the Dalai Lama often talks about how compassion requires “clear-thinking” – ie: rational thought. That compassion is not about the emotion of sympathy. Nor should compassion, be based on the emotion of sympathy. And by the same token, Love in the sense of “love your fellow man”, should not be an action based on *affectionate feelings*. It should be a compassionate love action based on a clear-thinking, rational, basis.
As for affectionate feelings, and that sort of love, between people who are emotionally close to one another, such as family, friends, and romantic partners. This is a seperate issue entirely. It’s true, you can’t have true affectionate feelings and perform intimate loving acts (not just sex, but intimate loving acts such as spending time talking to someone for a period of time, or maybe helping someone move, that sort of thing)… You can’t do these things if it’s a One-Way Relationship, or a relationship where the other person is threatening to you physically or emotionally. Nor, I believe, should you try.
In this sense, I believe that if I feel affectionate toward someone, and love them, I can’t EXPECT them to love me back, I can’t expect them to feel affectionate toward me, I can’t expect them to reciprocate my intimate loving acts. However, I can choose NOT to be personal friends with someone, to not perform intimate loving acts toward someone, despite my affection, if they turn out to be someone who is not going to participate in the relationship as an equal.
My affectionate feelings will naturally subside and diminish, even disappear, if the person turns out to be non-reciprical, or threatening in some way. I think this happens with most people. Though I think it differs from person to person, and situation to situation. I’ve seen people remain feeling affectionate longer than I would in the same situation, and I’ve also seen people come to dislike someone sooner than I probably would. I’m assuming these differences depend on a combination life experience, learning from early childhood, and natural temperament.
But however long the affectionate feelings last, I know that as I’ve gotten healthier regarding taking care of myself, and learning more about boundaries, I often tend to remove myself from people even before the affectionate feelings diminish. And it’s a choice to take care of myself based on clear-thinking, rational thought. Even though, initially, sometimes it FEELS like somehow I’m denying myself something by removing myself from someone I feel affectionate toward. I believe the action is truly an act of true compassionate love toward myself.
And perhaps in many situations, an act of true compassionate love toward the other person. Since if the other person doesn’t feel affection toward me, I might actually be making them uncomfortable, or putting them in an awkward situation by expressing my affection toward them.
And in the case of the sociopath, I would be enabling their relationships based on inequality, and even if they like it that way, I do believe it’s not morally right for me to be a party to that type of unhealthy relationship, regardless of whether or not they recognize it as unhealthy for them.
So this is how I personally perceive the difference between compassionate acts based on “love”, and loving acts based on “affection”.
Once that form of “love” is seperated from the definition of “affection”, “uncondtional love” takes on a whole new rational meaning that has NOTHING to do with ‘putting up with someone else’s bullshit’.
I think I’ve had a similar discussion here about what I believe is the true meaning of forgiveness. Forgiveness also has nothing to do with ‘putting up with someone else’s bullshit’.
Forgiving criminals, for example, doesn’t mean I want them to open the doors to the Supermax Federal Penitentiary in Colorado, and let the most heinous notorious criminals out loose in the world. It just means I am not working to have them brutally tortured or denied food & water. It means I don’t harbor hateful feelings and resentful thoughts of revenge in my heart toward them. It does NOT mean I want their consequences alleviated, and it doesn’t mean I think the public should be put at risk with their freedom.
There’s also no “requirement” for forgiveness. Having resentful thoughts toward someone who’s behaved heinously is perfectly natural, especially initially, and nothing to be ashamed about.
I had a friend some years ago who said that having forgiveness really isn’t something you choose. It’s something that you pray for – you pray to have the capacity for forgiveness, and it comes bestowed as grace. (Or something like that, I can’t remember her exact words.)
It’s also not something that someone who’s done wrong receives from someone else. You don’t GIVE forgiveness to someone else. For example sociopaths’ understanding of forgiveness is often the idea that if you forgive them, basically that forgiveness is comprised of ‘continuing to put up with their bullshit’, or giving them a free pass for what they’ve done.
When in reality, forgiveness is something you HAVE for someone else. My forgiveness for someone is contained within me, and expressed as simply as by my not working to have the person I’ve forgiven tortured or having revenge visited upon them. That’s all.
So when our respective religious leaders call for unconditional love and forgiveness, I can take that for what it is. And when a family member, acquaintance, or whoever, selfishly calls for my unconditional love & forgiveness, I can see that for what it is too.
Thanks Ox Drover for this wonderful discussion on love. I often think how wonderful it would be if more of us spent more time discussing the topic of love, in all its forms.
I’ve recently been reading “The Path to Love” by Deepak Chopra. Recommended by a friend when we were discussing this very topic. In it, Chopra too deliniates the difference between love on an emotional level and love on a spiritual level. And in this book, he seems to be talking about a way to join both. But it’s good I never heard about this book until now, because if I had read this book some years ago, in the time of shaking toxic people out of my life, I would’ve been far too cynical to even begin to understand what he was talking about. Because the truth is, I think I’ve tried to join the 2 in romantic relationships & friendships my whole life, but a lot of the people I was attempting this with just were NOT on the same page. That gave rise to a jaded impression that I’m alone in this. Now I’m at a point where I recognize that I’m not alone in it, I just have tended to choose people, and tended to feel affection for people, who were not on the same page. But now that I’m moving out of that protective cynicism, I can recognize that I have a few friends for many years now, that do seem to be on that same page. And that’s why they’re people I’m still friends with, people who have never been toxic to me.
WP, You are a deep thinker, and you explained yourself very well. thank you very much for your input.
Twice today I brought up the X,s name in conversation and both times I noticed how quick they changed the subject. I have only this place to vent or express myself. So too make a short story long – The nice lady that works at the country store, that new my X and I really did a nice thing today. I stopped in for gas and went in to pay and she said ‘I have something for you’ she made me a beautiful quilt with embroidered flowers. I was speechless, I said ‘for me?’ she said ” you didnt deserve what that SOB did too you…………….! so I have a priceless gift of love ….just needed to tell someone…
WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! How wonderful!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
henry
thanks for sharing!
It’s nice whenever others see and acknowledge what we all know!!
henry: That is really fabulous! Every stitch was made with love in her heart for you, that doesn’t happen very often, what a wonderful woman.
Henry:
What you posted did remind me of this quote:
“It is very tempting to take the side of the perpetrator. All the perpetrator asks is that the bystander do nothing. He appeals to the universal desire to see, hear, and speak no evil. The victim, on the contrary, asks the bystander to share the burden of pain. The victim demands action, engagement, and remembering.”
— Judith Herman
That’s nice about the quilt. ANd there ARE people who care, and see the truth.
And then there are people who know the truth, but just don’t know an appropriate way to handle it socially.
And then there are people who just don’t want to deal with the issue at all because they don’t know what to think or do about it in any way.
And then there are people who just don’t get it, and therefore can’t even think about it.
And then there are people who just don’t care period.
And then there’s the other people… The people who are your friends, and who care about you and what has happened to you. But because you’ve been in a toxic situation for some time, you’ve exhausted every last bit of their energy trying to support you through it. And they have to put a limit on how much they can listen to eventually. Because they need to take care of themselves.
Don’t take it personally.
Just remember that everyone has their own lives and their own problems that they have to deal with too. And they may even have other friends & family leaning on them for support with something, at any given time, as well.
So be patient with good friends who might just be exhausted, not actually dismissive. (Even though it might feel dismissive at the time.)
And just be thankful that there’s the internet, and web sites like this, where there’s so many people that at any given time there’s SOMEBODY present for you, who understands, and who’s energized enough to deal with it at the time.
And know that there will come a time when you won’t talk about the PERSON anymore. Eventually you’ll just be talking about the issues. And then further on down the road, you’ll mostly be talking about the good things you’ve learned in the process, and it won’t be so often that you even need to discuss the subject… only when it comes up occasionally. Just keep reading and learning. It’s happened for me… and if it can happen for me, it can happen for anyone!! 🙂 🙂