Lovefraud recently received an e-mail from a young man, we’ll call him Kyle, who has just broken up with a woman whom he now believes is a sociopath. Based on the behavior he described, I’d say the guy is right. The woman cheated on him, and when confronted, either downplayed her behavior, said it was none of his business, or verbally attacked him. She had no interest in resolving problems. “Her solution to everything was to run, wait awhile, and then pile on affection as if nothing ever happened,” Kyle wrote.
Kyle has been researching sociopathy to try to grasp what is really going on with this woman. Here’s more of his e-mail, which I have reproduced with his permission:
First of all, I don’t believe criminal behavior, monetary fraud, substance abuse, or any other overt signs of social misconduct are primary symptoms of sociopathy. I suppose that’s the big question though… what is a primary sign? My theory is that the sociopath is incapable of developing personal values through the process of induction, meaning they are unable to look within themselves to gain a sense of self-esteem. This results their inability to experience empathy. After all, if one cannot generate a sense of self worth from their own reasoning how can they be expected to relate to others who do?
It seems in every case I have read about, the sociopath is an extravert. I think this is natural as the person must constantly be in contact with others because they find no satisfaction in themselves. Sociopaths also seem to be universally intelligent. (Perhaps these are the factors that differentiate a sociopath from a psychopath. Again, forgive my ignorance on the subject). What results is a charming individual who preys on other people to satisfy an endless hunger for temporary esteem. Because they cannot make sense of the internal values which should be generating this esteem, they simply try to get it from others, essentially reversing cause and effect.
In the end, this system never quite works, so they develop an incredible defense to avoid the fact that every close relationship falls apart. Every interaction is bounded by a series of rules/parameters. So long as the victim stays within these, things run smoothly. However, close human contact results in an emotional trade off that is impossible to control. Normally this is a tremendously good thing: trust, loyalty, and compassion are established. However, these all rely on a person’s sense of self worth, and the sociopath is not able to understand that. Sooner or later the relationship becomes too close and loses all stability. This is the point where the sociopath is “found out.”
In dealing with the woman, I felt a certain childlike quality to her emotions throughout our relationship. Though she was highly developed socially, in a lot of ways I almost felt like I was dealing with a puppy who just killed a small bird in the front yard. I think my mistake was in believing that I would be different. If I held my hand out she wouldn’t bite it. But I think this quality is misleading, as that naiveté is something the sociopath will avoid at all costs. They simply refuse to learn from their mistakes, or even acknowledge them in the first place. It seems to be a rare combination of a highly developed intellect and a poorly developed emotional response.
Perhaps at some point every sociopath learns to guard that core of insecurity at the deepest level and as such cannot even look at that, let alone analyze it and learn from it. In time, they develop an incredibly complex mechanism to guard this, adding another component with each deception. By early adulthood, these deceptions become so many that the cost is just too great to turn back, and it’s just so much easier to keep going that the thought never even crosses their mind.
These people are not normal
Kyle has correctly observed many traits of a sociopath: Criminality, fraud and substance abuse are not necessarily the prime indicators of this personality disorder. Sociopaths do not experience empathy. Sociopaths are extraverts. They are highly developed socially, but emotionally immature. They do not learn from mistakes.
However, his theories on why sociopaths are the way they are suffer from a fatal flaw: They are developed from the perspective of someone who is normal.
The hardest part of understanding what happened during our entanglements with sociopaths is coming to terms the extent to which these people are not normal.
Lovefraud readers have described sociopaths as not human. Aliens inhabiting human bodies. As cold as these descriptions may sound, they’re probably the easiest way to grasp what you are dealing with in a relationship with a sociopath.
So how different are they? Let’s take a look.
What sociopaths want
Normal people want love and harmonious relationships with others. Normal people want to feel competent in some form of endeavor. Normal people want to contribute to the world in some way.
Sociopaths want power, control and sex. Since they do not really value human relationships, they only want to win.
Kyle is correct in stating that sociopaths cannot look within themselves and develop personal values. He is incorrect in assuming that this causes the sociopath distress. Yes, these disordered people are empty inside, and they may be vaguely aware that they are missing something. But most sociopaths do not have issues with their self-esteem. If anything, they are grandiose, and their views of themselves are ridiculously inflated. They feel absolutely entitled to anything that they want, simply because they want it.
Self-esteem and sociopaths
Kyle speculates that sociopaths must be in constant contact with other people because they are trying to borrow self-esteem from others. This is not the case. Sociopaths view people as pawns to be manipulated into giving them what they want. Every social encounter is a potential feeding opportunity, a chance to convince someone to provide something.
Many people, of course, eventually catch on that they are being used, and stop serving as supply to the sociopaths. Sociopaths are aware of this—they’ve experienced it many times. So they are constantly on the lookout for new targets. When one victim is depleted, he or she must be replaced with another.
This leads to the answer to Kyle’s question, which is, “what is a primary sign of sociopathy?” Dr. Leedom has said lying. Steve Becker has said exploitative behavior. Put them together and you can say deceitful exploitation is central to the disorder.
Insecurity and sociopaths
Kyle suggests that sociopaths are insecure and build defense mechanisms to protect themselves from being hurt. By the time they’re adults, these defense mechanisms are so elaborate and complex that sociopaths can’t return to their authentic selves.
Again, he’s trying to interpret the sociopath based on how normal people may cope with personal issues. This is a mistake.
Wikipedia defines insecurity as, “a feeling of general unease or nervousness that may be triggered by perceiving oneself to be unloved, inadequate or worthless.” Sociopaths probably should see themselves as unloved, inadequate or worthless, but they don’t. They may seem to be exhibiting insecurity, but in reality it’s one of two things:
- Frustration that they’re not getting what they want.
- Manipulation tactics to get what they want.
Sociopaths have no feelings, so there are no feelings to hurt. They can certainly pretend to be hurt, but it is a ruse designed to guilt others into giving them what they want.
Genetic roots
So if sociopaths are not trying to protect their deeply felt insecurities, where does this disorder come from? In most cases, the temperamental traits that lead to sociopathy are genetic. That usually means one of the parents is a sociopath, and sociopaths are notoriously bad parents. If a child is born with the traits, bad parenting can make them develop the full disorder.
But even if a child with the traits gets good parenting, the disorder can develop. Parents who have a child at risk of developing sociopathy need to take extra steps to help the child overcome his or her predisposition, but the parents may not realize it. And in some cases, even the best parenting is not enough to overcome negative genetics.
It is also possible for a mostly normal child who has extremely an extremely bad growth experience—such as being moved from foster home to foster home as a baby—can develop the disorder.
Accept and avoid
Please understand that I am not picking on Kyle. He’s obviously given a lot of thought to his experience with a sociopathic woman, and is trying to understand what happened. He has a reasonably good handle on normal behavior and normal motivations.
His letter simply provided me with an opportunity to illustrate that what we know and understand about normal human behavior simply does not apply to sociopaths. Thank you, Kyle, for allowing me to quote you.
In the end, we may not be able to truly comprehend sociopaths. The way they go through life is just too foreign to our natures. We must simply accept that they are very, very different from us, learn to recognize the symptoms, and if we see them, run for the hills.
HH wrote:—– “Changing my number, and knowing that he can’t leave me any more voice mails or text messages has really made me feel better and sped up my recovery.”
This is an important little reminder that emphasizes how empowering it can be to make a decision on our own behalf and to act on that decision. Actions like this build on one another while restoring and reinforcing our sense of self. They also remind us we do not the N/S/P types in our lives and can get along just fine without them and the chaos they create.
HH:
i’m a basket case now…weeping uncontrollably. amazing how last night i was okay and now …. well, not so much!
the mother thing was always a loving thing between he and i. i am 12 yrs older than him and there has always been a certain mothering quality with the relationship — usualy, me trying to teach him to be a better person! also, i was best friends with his mom, too. it was never used against me in any way by him that i was older. the relationship was always multi-dimensional; lover, mentor, counselor, healer.
but when i got pregnant many years ago he begged me to terminate the pregnancy, because he felt he was too young to have kids, so i did. then i left him and a year later is when his now-wife got pregnant and she had the baby.
so, him inviting me to a baby shower for his baby with some woman he cheated on me with is just beyond sick.
and i never did have children because i was always in love with him. so here he is now with FOUR kids with THREE OW, and i’m all the eff alone.
i’ll be fine. i hate him so much. but the fact that everyone is hailing him as some sort of virile king, and his wife is sticking by him even though he’s now cheated and impregnated other women TWICE, is just killing me. no conscience and worse, no consequences.
i don’t want to change my number — too complicated to give it out to everyone who needs it. besides, i have the option of not listening to the messages.
thanks for caring.
i’m going back to bed.
ox:
thanks. i didn’t see your post until just now.
yea, i forget about how bad it is for everybody else involved with this SOB; feeling a little bit selfish right now.
thanks for the reminder. i AM out of it. i just wish he could get what’s coming to him and not have everyone he knows thinking he’s god-with-a-harem.
ARGH!!!
lostingrief and Healing Heart:
You both have hit upon something that rang true with me. The exes wanting to engage in relationships with their exes.
My S was insistent during the first 4 months of our relationship that I couldn’t go to parties with him because “he wanted me to meet his ex on neutral territory.” When I pointed out the fact that his ex had moved on to someone new didn’t seem to enter S’s equation.
Of course, I also ignored the fact that S kept inserting himself in his ex’s new relationship. I remember well the day that he told me he had gone to the his old apartment where the ex had remained in residence with his new interest and S “giving them marriage counselling.”
Anyhow, I finally reached my limit around Thanksgiving 2007 and told S that I had no axe to grind with his ex — I didn’t know the ex before, during or after their breakup. My only gripe with his ex was I didn’t like the way he was treating S (then again, I was relying on S’s stories, so it was probablyall lies). And I gave him a “drop dead date” so make this meeting happen.
S refused. Then a week or so later he told me we were invited to an XMAS party thrown by the ex and his new boyfriend. I met him. Didn’t have any issues with him initially. My logic was “Well, we’re all gonna have to play in the same sandbox since they have mutual friends. May as well get used to it.”
Now, I look back and see nothing but warning signs. The inappropriate, on-going engagement between S and his ex. The playing of his ex and me aganst each other. The refusing to honor my wishes with respect to our relationship.
I always laughingly say that I hate my exes just the way God intended. I don’t. But, I don’t want any on-going interaction with them either.
I wonder if this “one-big happy family” act of their’s is one of the hallmarks of sociopathy that hasn’t been picked up on?
To me, it is defintely a control thing. If you keep everyone in the same orbit, at the same time, you can control what they’re saying about you to each other, can’t you?
Matt: “If you keep everyone in the same orbit, at the same time, you can control what they’re saying about you to each other, can’t you?”
I think you’re onto something there. I also think they like running that big theater, sort of like the off-Broadway production, but in their version of “real” life. Notice we’ve seen this theme from a number of people in the last week or so. I think Oxy’s story also reflect it.
You know this is Therapy Accelerated #199.
It is working.
After dating S for about a month, after a few conversations about his ex and hearing she was this and that, and she had the gaul to walk out on on him and the family, I mentioned “Oh I would like to meet her sometime. In my mind I thought months down the road. A week later he says I talked to my ex and she would like to meet you too. Well, thrown by this I was eating my own words. So, I said ok. We met at a restaurant with her. After being introduced she seemed friendly. That quickly changed in the restaurant. The focus of her attention was on S. She acted as if she was his mother. She told him to “S speak up, S take your hands away from your mouth when you talk, S order this you always liked this”. S went along with what she had been telling him. I sat there dumbfounded. Part of the S chaos from the get go. So I hung in there at this meeting of the ex. And only he acknowledged what I had to say in the conversation.
After this I realized S had only set this meeting with the ex to Rub Her Face into his new relationship. I asked him what was up with her treating him like that. With me he was Mr. Macho, independent and had a certain finesse and confidence about himself. No more meetings like those with an ex., ever again.
While dating she called the house every day with the excuse of her child. The child was almost 18. After we married a year later this continued. It was a game she had been playing to manipulate our love relationship. She walked out on him 5 years ago and she was in a relationship. She used their child as her excuse to call. I told the S this had to stop, it was my home and my phone she was calling. It did stop and after time. I realized later she had started to call his cell phone everyday, he always kept it turned off and would have to go for a ride to get something which I determined was to call her back. Unbelievable. This continued throughout the years of being with him but was now hidden in the turned off cell phone that I would check to validate my suspicisions of the ex’s manipulations still being there.
I called her after a time and asked what she wanted, what is it she was trying to do. She told me I was crazy and to never call her again.
This past month she has emailed me and IM’d me and I filled her in on the goings on with the S. She said she did not know we were divorced almost 4 years. The truth. I don’t know. She is on a networking site. I joined. When she saw I was there she offered me a friend invite. I agreed so I can relay information to her of his ludicrous goings on. The ex and I are cordial only because she wanted to know what was going on. I think she believes some of it but there is much she is in denial. She was with S for 15 years and recently told me she had to get out of there, she could not take it anymore in the relationship with S.
About a month ago the S sent me a text message saying he only tells the truth. My response was “to who, #1 or #2, the stories are very different to both of us”. Well, blew him away with this.
He had played the ex wife and me at the same time for years. And now we were on the same page. It came flying back to him, along with keep your hands away from your mouth when you talk.
I do not trust her. I still am on the site but do not go there, she can see when I am on. She wanted the relationship doomed from the get go.
I would have prefereed now to have never met her, maybe this meeting gave her fuel and jealousy toward her actions.
S sent me a text about a month ago saying if i would not get back together with him he was going back to her. I said good luck I hope it works out for you both. The ex has pictures of her new love posted and told me she was very happy in her relationship. S lied and got caught again.
I am sorry you are hurting so much LIG! Just try to ride this out. I felt terrible a couple of weeks ago, for almost two weeks I felt so hurt and angry about all the cheating, I was in pain all the time. I couldn’t eat, couldn’t sleep…lost about 10 lbs, and was just so unhappy. Then it passed. I’ve felt so much better the last two weeks. It felt like I had to go through this awful pain, and I’ve come out the other side feeling so much better and thinking about him so much less. I know I have a long road ahead still, but I feel like I got one chunk of the grieving over with. Keep going, just allow yourself to feel the pain – and it will pass. I’m so sorry this is happening.
As for our ex S’s and refusing to give up their exes…many people on this site have mentioned that the S’s see us as possessions. And they do not want to give us up because we are their possessions. Like expensive cars. Or cheap cars – depending on the S’s mood. Although they certainly don’t want to commit to us, they want to keep us in their harem. My ex S would suddenly decide to go back to his ex-wife if she got a boyfriend. And then once she got rid of the boyfriend and committed back to the S, he would ditch her. My ex S had a whole collection of exes who were still sleeping with him. I guess they were still addicted and couldn’t get out.
I think maybe they want us in the same place so they can watch us fight over them. Either subtly or out-right. I think they would love to see us in an emotional catfight. Had I actually spent time with his ex wife, I would have learned stuff that would have had me leaving him for good a lot sooner.
And when I finally did leave him for good, six months ago, he went crazy trying to get me back. Calling 20 times a day, texting constantly, emailing constantly, for days and weeks on end. It really felt to me like he had lost a valuable possession. And he was going to get it back. I knew he didn’t love me, but he had become obsessed with me. It was all so strange. And disturbing.
I’m so glad that he doesn’t have the satisfaction of having me in his life as one of his harem. And I am so glad that I got out. And I believe that I did, actually get out. I’m not going to get complacent, but I do believe that I am out. YAY!!!
I am feeling so much terror , pain and I can’t find words adequate to reach out to you people. The S has our son. I lost control and he had made sure professionals involved were ready to take Matt from me. I am so ill with guilt that I think of suicide I obssess with terror that now he has Matt he will continue the sickness and destroy my son. I did’nt get out of it I became a crazed woman. No one believes me except a domestic violence worker . he has lied charmed manipulated and now social services praise him for taking care of Matt. I am allowed 1hour contact every 2 weeks and not allowed to discuss any ‘ contentious issues’ 2 workers watch and listen to every word. I am labelled a risk to Matt. He has won. Please can someone let me know if this has happened to you, I am new to all this info but now see how evil he is. I am so afraid for my son who seems to have similar traits to his father and becoming more like him . Matt is 14 and has been diagnosed at 9 with autistic spectrum disorder aspbergers syndrome but is highly intelligent but also has oppositional defiance traits. He became increasingly verbally abusive to me and controlling. Reading all the posts here I have a dread that this is genetic and all my attempts to love both of them has led to my destruction. Or am I mad.
Readytolearn:
Welcome. You are in the right place.You’re not mad. You are finally coming out of the brain-fog and starting to heal.
I am not a parent, so I can only imagine what you’re going through. But, I do know that unless you help yourself now, you won’t be able to help your son later. Sort of like putting the oxygen mask on yourself before your child in the event of a plane crash.
Liane Leedom has written on parenting the at-risk child. Look up her writings on this site and follow her link. Others on the site also have experience with children who are sociopathic or showing signs of it. I am sure they will share their wisdom with you.
One thing you’ll find here is people don’t judge. With variations on a theme, we have all walked in your shoes. Some of us are way down the healing highway, others are just turning onto the on-ramp. But, you’re in the right place.
Hang in there and keep reading. You will get through this. Today is my 3 month anniversary of NC (no contact). I’m still a long-way from healed, but considering I was on the verge of suicide when I found this site, I’m a hell of a lot better.
Dear Ready: You are not crazy. You see the truth. Many of us have been through similar things. We know that the public, and especially professionals and social workers, need to be educated about this.
I know you are in pain. I understand your pain better than you might imagine. Right now may not be the time, but you understand this issue and how important it is, and sometime soon you may want to join forces with others who are working to correct these kinds of horrible, destructive situations.
My heart goes out to you in this time of suffering. Just be sure in yourself that you really do see the truth, and YOU are not the problem here.