The Gray Rock method of dealing with psychopaths

Editor’s note: At the request of readers, the Lovefraud member “Skylar” has contributed the following article.

When dealing with malignant narcissists, psychopaths, sociopaths, borderlines, drama queens, stalkers and other emotional vampires, it’s commonly advised that no response is the best response to unwanted attention. This is often true and No Contact (the avoidance of all communication) should be used whenever possible.

There are some situations however, when No Contact is not feasible, as in when you share child custody with a psychopath. As another example, if you are being stalked by an ex, a restraining order can infuriate the unwanted suitor, and refusing to respond to him or her is seen as an insult. They might become convinced that they can MAKE you respond and in that way satiate their need for power over you.

Furthermore, many of us have tried to end a relationship with a psychopath several times, only to take them back, each time. They turned on the pity ploy and the charm, and because we didn’t understand that this is what a psychopath does, we fell for their promises to change. They know all of our emotional hooks. For them, it’s easy and fun to lure us back by appealing to our emotions. But a psychopath can’t change. In fact, when you leave a psychopath, he becomes determined to punish you even more severely for thinking you could be autonomous.

Even if we don’t take them back, the most dangerous time for a person is when they first break up with a psychopath. The psychopath feels rage at being discarded. Losing control or power over a person is not just a narcissistic injury for them; they feel profoundly empty when their partner leaves them even if they had intended to kill their partner. The reason is because they have lost control. Psychopaths need to feel in control at all times.

For all these situations, we have Gray Rock.

What it is:Ӭ

So, how do we escape this parasitical leech without triggering his vindictive rage? Gray Rock is primarily a way of encouraging a psychopath, a stalker or other emotionally unbalanced person, to lose interest in you. It differs from No Contact in that you don’t overtly try to avoid contact with these emotional vampires. Instead, you allow contact but only give boring, monotonous responses so that the parasite must go elsewhere for his supply of drama. When contact with you is consistently unsatisfying for the psychopath, his mind is re-trained to expect boredom rather than drama. Psychopaths are addicted to drama and they can’t stand to be bored. With time, he will find a new person to provide drama and he will find himself drawn to you less and less often. Eventually, they just slither away to greener pastures. Gray Rock is a way of training the psychopath to view you as an unsatisfying pursuit you bore him and he can’t stand boredom.

What it’s for:

Making a psychopath go away of his own volition is one application of Gray Rock. One might say that Gray Rock is a way of breaking up with a psychopath by using the old, “It’s not you, it’s me.” excuse, except that you act it out instead of saying it and the psychopath comes to that conclusion on his own.

Another reason to use Gray Rock is to avoid becoming a target in the first place. If you find yourself in the company of one or more narcissistic personalities perhaps you work with them or they are members of your family it’s important to avoid triggering their ENVY. By using Gray Rock, you fade into the background. It’s possible they won’t even remember having met you. If you have already inadvertently attracted their attention and they have already begun to focus in on you, you can still use Gray Rock. Tell them you are boring. Describe a boring life. Talk about the most mundane household chores you accomplished that day in detail. Some people are naturally lacking in dramatic flair. Find those people and try to hang around them when the psychopath is nearby.

If you must continue a relationship with a psychopath, Gray Rock can serve you as well. Parents sharing joint custody with a psychopathic ex-spouse can use Gray Rock when the ex-spouse tries to trigger their emotions. I acknowledge that any threat to the well-being of our children is overwhelmingly anxiety provoking. Here is where Gray Rock can be applied selectively to draw attention away from what really matters to you. In general, show no emotion to the offending behaviors or words. The psychopath will try different tactics to see which ones get a reaction. With Selective Gray Rock, you choose to respond to the tactic which matters least to you. This will focus the psychopath’s attention on that issue. Remember, the psychopath has no values, so he doesn’t understand what is valuable to us unless we show him. Selective Gray Rock shows him a decoy. When protecting our children, we can take a lesson from nature: Bird parents who have fledglings are known to feign a broken wing when a predator is in the vicinity. They fake a vulnerability to detract the cat’s attention from their real vulnerability, their babies. In this example, Selective Gray Rock fades all emotions into the background except the ones you want the predator to see.

Why it works:Ӭ

A psychopath is easily bored. He or she needs constant stimulation to ward off boredom. It isn’t the type of boredom that normal people experience; it’s more like the French word, ennui, which refers to an oppressive boredom or listlessness. Drama is a psychopath’s remedy for boredom. For drama, they need an audience and some players. Once the drama begins, they feel complete and alive again. They are empowered when pulling the strings that elicit our emotions. Any kind of emotions will do, as long as it is a response to their actions.

A psychopath is an addict. He is addicted to power. His power is acquired by gaining access to our emotions. He is keenly aware of this and needs to constantly test to make sure we are still under his control. He needs to know that we are still eager to do his bidding, make him happy and avoid his wrath. He needs to create drama so he can experience the power of manipulating our emotions. As with any addiction, it is exhilarating to the psychopath when he gets his supply of emotional responses. The more times he experiences a reward for his dramatic behavior, the more addicted he becomes. Conversely, when the reward stops coming, he becomes agitated. He experiences oppressive boredom and he will counter it by creating more drama. If we stay the course and show no emotions, the psychopath will eventually decide that his toy is broken. It doesn’t squirt emotions when he squeezes it anymore! Most likely, he will slither away to find a new toy.

The Gray Rock technique does come with a caveat: psychopaths are dangerous people, if you are in a relationship with one that has already decided to kill you, it will be difficult to change his mind. He may already be poisoning you or sabotaging your vehicle. Take all necessary precautions. In this case, Gray Rock can only hope to buy time until you can make your escape.

How it works:Ӭ

Psychopaths are attracted to shiny, pretty things that move fast and to bright lights. These things, signal excitement and relieve the psychopath’s ever-present ennui. Your emotional responses are his food of choice, but they aren’t the only things he wants.

He envies everything pretty, shiny and sparkly that you have and he wants whatever you value. You must hide anything that he will notice and envy. If you happen to be very good looking, you need to change that during this time. Use makeup to add bags under your eyes. If you aren’t married to the psychopath, any money or assets he covets should disappear “in a bad investment decision” (consult with your attorney on this). Your shiny sports car has to go, get a beater. If you have a sparkling reputation, anticipate that he will or has already begun to slander you; therefore, don’t allow yourself to be put into any compromising position or pushed into erratic behavior. The reason he wants to take these things from you, is not necessarily because he wants them for himself, it’s because he wants to see the emotions on your face when you lose them. He wants the power trip associated with being the one who took them from you. By preemptively removing these things from his vision and not reacting with emotion at the losses, you continue to train him with the idea that you are the most boring person on earth, someone he would never want to be.

Origin of Gray Rock:Ӭ

In 2009, I left my psychopathic partner after 25 years, but I didn’t understand what was wrong with him. I sat in a sushi bar, lost in confusion, when a tall, athletic man introduced himself. To my own surprise, I instinctively poured out my story to him. This complete stranger listened to my story and then he explained to me that I was dealing with a malignant narcissist. He advised me, “Be boring.” He told me that his girlfriend would come home each night, begin drinking and become abusive. They were both professionals who traveled in the same professional circles. He knew that she would stalk him if he broke up with her and he didn’t want to risk the slander and drama which could leak out and damage his professional reputation.

His solution was to be so boring that she would simply leave him. He declined to go out on evenings and weekends. He showed no emotional reaction about anything, no interest in anything and responded with no drama. When she asked if he wanted to go out for dinner, his reply was, “I don’t know.” After a few months of no drama, she simply moved out.

Why is it called Gray Rock?

I chose the words Gray Rock because I needed an object for us to channel when we are in an emotionally charged situation. You don’t just practice Gray Rock, you BECOME a Gray Rock. There are gray rocks and pebbles everywhere you go, but you never notice them. None of them attract your attention. You don’t remember any specific rock you saw today because they blend with the scenery. That is the type of boring that you want to channel when you are dealing with a psychopath. Your boring persona will camouflage you and the psychopath won’t even notice you were there. The stranger in the sushi bar showed great insight when he advised me to “be boring.” He struck at the heart of the psychopath’s motivation: to avoid boredom.

In nature, there are many plants and creatures that show us how to survive in a world of predators. Among others, birds feign injury to protect their babies and mice play dead until the cat loses interest. Both of these tactics can be useful and they can be channeled when applicable. Yet, it’s difficult to calculate each and every move that a psychopath will make and to determine the best course of action each time. Instead of trying to out-think him, channel the gray rock. This simple, humble object in nature has all the wisdom it needs to avoid being noticed, it’s boring.

Copyright © 2012 Skylar

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598 Comments on "The Gray Rock method of dealing with psychopaths"

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I have an extra twist, my husband is a confessed previous committed sociopath. Who hears a voice, he calls “Me” who, he says has a “blood lust”. Whom he claims he can control, but admits, that ” he’d hate to be the ones in the room if “me” ever won.

Anyhow, we have one son, who is 5, who he terrorizes verbally, and sometimes hurts… “accidently” on purpose, like slamming a car door at his head.

Anyhow… we r mennonites, and live in a community…and well liked and respected….

If he left, he’d have no place to go or work, and they believe all relationships shold be workable, u just need to build trust….

So…. thoughts? He is sweet around others and veminous when alone here at the house.

Hello pmjmommy and others on this thread. I wonder if your state has an organization called ARMS: Abuse Recovery Ministry and Services. It’s in several states in USA, but not all. I have been in several abusive relationships, but did not have children, thanks be. ARMS was extremely wonderful. More about that in a minute. I went to several women’s groups and did not stay because I “didn’t fit in,” and did not feel comfortable there. For example, my partners never gave me black eyes or broken bones; it was mostly — but not always — emotional abuse and verbal violence. Plus I myself had never had a drug or drinking addiction. So I didn’t “measure up” to these groups because my case “wasn’t bad enough” to “belong” there. Of course, nobody actually said that, but I could feel it. I am not an evangelical Christian, but ARMS is an evangelical Christian group and they teach and care about anyone who has been touched by abuse — any religion, any culture, even atheists, any kind or degree of abuse. They have a wonderful program that explains so much! Amazing and insightful printed lessons, some books to purchase or borrow. The weekly meetings (you don’t have to go to every week, but it’s a good idea if you can) include testimonies, issues women are facing, and requests for support. These are free to abused women. There are men’s groups, which cost; and groups for women who acknowledge that they themselves are or have been abusers, violent, bullies, etc. I felt so valued and appreciated there. And get this — one of the most wonderful thing ARMS does is enlighten/educate ministers, using Biblical references and passages, and teach the ministers that commitment to a spouse does not mean putting up with abuse, staying to put up with it, nor dole it out (on the part of the abuser, and, like in my own case, stooping to his level by screaming and throwing plates and such.)

More about ARMS:

Notice that they have children’s programs, too. armsonline.org has this to say (next paragraph). Maybe they have an online forum, but I don’t know — try and see if you can find a forum for ARMS.

ARMS (Abuse Recovery Ministry & Services) is a faith-based, non-profit 501(C)(3) organization that exists to serve those who have or are experiencing domestic abuse. ARMS has a number of healing programs developed for women who have are experiencing domestic abuse, intervention programs for men and women who have used controlling or abusive behaviors, and a parenting program specific to addressing this problems created for children who have witnessed abuse. ARMS also has a program for teens, to help them have healthy relationships. ARMS’ National Office is in Washington County, OR, and an office in Spokane County, WA and healing program for women throughout the United States and beyond.

I am looking them up, yes, I fit the “are you being abused? Article…lol.

Anyhow, I will continue to check them out, but can find where there locations are…I’m in NW Florida.

Were you able to find the ARMS website? Do they have an online forum? I hope so.

I found this on one of the ARMS pages — apparently they do not have an online forum, though.

“Groups are currently being held in Oregon, Washington, Idaho, California, Florida, and Illinois. Tennessee and Mississippi are soon to be added. Locations and times of specific groups vary. Please call the national office for more information on specific groups.” National office: National Office:


PO Box 663

Hillsboro, OR 97123

Phone: 503-846-9284

Toll Free: 866-262-9284

Fax: 503-846-1182

General Email

National Facebook Page

Click “Connect” on the main ARMS page to get the links of General Email and Facebook.

I’m replying to your thread because I don’t know how to start a new comment.. I hope you got out of your situation. He will never change you and your son are in danger every second you stay.

My situation is horrible but I’ve made it bright. My ex is 1000% a narcissist sociopath, diagnosed bipolar with anger issues.. I had no idea until recently. I’ve only now gained the research and knowledge on these topics.

With his charm he got me to move in just months after a long distance relationship with him. He seemed like the perfect dream. His own house at 23, same great job for over 4 years, only four hours from my hometown..etc. I moved in. It wasn’t long after I realized it was never going to work. I can’t be treated like this I just knew I couldn’t … I’m a strong woman, 25 years old. I’m more experienced in life then him.

He has so many hates and resentments, sexually abused as a child, planned to be in major leagues but got sick with chrones. Nothing’s ever good enough. He’s so hard on everyone around especially himself and me while I was there, even the dogs …

Three previous relationships before me: got them all pregnant and made them get abortions. Talk about control issues and need for drama and tearing people apart. He was abusive to them too…. I feel for these girls.

I got pregnant the week I moved in. The second day. I lived there only two months. He acted differently after we found out we were pregnant. Sometimes happy, sometimes short with me and angry. Started treating me like I was nothing. Break me down to just bring me back up. Took all my power.. didn’t want me to work.. wanted me home 24/7 to cook and clean. THIS IS NOT WHO I AM. I’m not a scared woman who is pushed aside and hidden from the world. I felt so scared, I had no friends where he lived and the ones I did have he didn’t want over and controlled my every moment with them. I felt like a woman on those movies … the ones I thought I couldn’t ever be. But there i was scared, controlled, powerless, manipulated, pregnant, confused….. broken down.

He would get mad and tell me to “hit the road and just get an abortion”. Just to take it back and talk about the remodels of the house for the baby. I started seeing abusive bahevior in him…. even to the dogs, he almost punched me but stopped himself. He held me down and licked my face and later when I asked he said he was proud he didn’t hurt me. He as well admitted to killing Someone….. he’s never retouched the subject and wouldn’t answer me when I asked…I knew I had to get out or forever be controlled, abused, stuck….He put on a great show for the outsiders…. his “perfect” life.

I asked him if he meant those things about me getting the abortion and he was quiet and started yelling “I haven’t given you my credit card and sent to the doctor have I?!??” Anyways, I was starting to hate him and hate myself and I was so broken and scared. I told him I was against abortion and I wasn’t ever going to do it. He told me I better be ok with the baby having a new mom then because he was going to take her from me and that we weren’t working out …. that he had the house and job.

I quietly packed my things and left one morning while he was at work. (I hate this part of the story and I don’t want to even say it) I went to planned parenthood and told them my story they told me options took me to the room told me to take these pills and bam I did it. I immediately freaked out and ran to the bathroom and threw up I knew I had just made the worst mistake of my entire life. She told me I would need to take the pills again because they had already done damage and I don’t want to hurt the baby. I had to take them again. The immediate pain and guilt and sadness would never go away. He called me crying and screaming realizing I wasn’t home and what i had done. I said it was too late. I drove away. He was upset but later on told me he hoped I replayed those moments in my head over and over.

The next five weeks were the worst weeks of my entire life. The guilt, the sadness, loss of character, loss of love for myself, self hate, self doubt, lost, so lost, thoughts of never being able to be happy ever again. A loss of my love and a loss of my baby. The worst pain. Unimaginable pain. So broken. I went and stayed in a hotel and curled in a ball and cried my life away. I wrote in my journal that I prayed she would come back To me in spirit some way somehow.

I sat and cried and prayed and prayed every day during these five weeks that my baby would come back to me….. I felt so lost so sad. Cried all day all the time. My emotions ran my daily life. I went to the doctor after these five weeks just because I was feeling weird. My stomach had a lump, Horrible back pains, so emotional, thoughts of suicide. I went to the doctor and she did an ultra sound of my tummy and she asked if I wanted to see what she saw…. of course I did. There on the screen was a little baby dancing around like crazy saying “here I am here I am, mom I’m here!” I was in shock!!!!! So happy but so confused and then it hit me, instayed crying and freaking out “is she going to be okay?!?!?” I the. Began balling my eyes out and I said this is a miracle and I’m so blessed and so happy. I’m so confused how can this be? She said like a 1% chance of his happening… she asked what I wanted to do and i told her I was keeping her 10000%.

The next months until now have been hard. Really stressful with the “what if’s” and the guilt of something is to go wrong how could I even live ? I don’t know if I could. Staying strong and working hard every day to get my life back, saving enough money to remodel my folks house so we can have our own room. Not giving up. Living right for me and baby girl. Unimaginable confusion/hope/fear/happiness all rolled in one…(I’m still very emotional about this pain, I just had to stop writing and I threw up).

I’m due in one month and all the extensive tests and ultrasounds look 100% normal and healthy. Please pray for us… pray for baby girl and her over health. I’m so in love with her. She is my new life. I will love her with every inch of my being. She gave me my life back. She is my world. I can’t wait to meet her and love her.

He will not be at the hospital, or on the birth certificate, I’m meeting with a lawyer this week to figure out all the legal details. I do not want him having ANY rights or custody over her. I will protect her and make sure he can’t hurt her like he hurt me. She’s my angel, this new momma protection I have in unstoppable.

I’ve Been practicing this “Gray Rock” technique lately…. except he is blocked…… I think he’s getting bored though…. in fact I know he is.

Pray he stays away.

Stay strong other beautiful souls out there that are dealing with this monster of a chemical imbalance. Remember they probably do love you and Care for you but they aren’t capable of not hurting us or killing us in the end.

Your experience brought tears to my eyes. I believe your prayers were answered with a miracle. I will pray for you and your baby.

Consider that your ex spath may have been using hypnotic techniques and other subtle manipulations to drive you to leave and seek to end the pregnancy. It seems like more than a coincidence that other women he was involved with did the same thing. Also consider that everything he said may or may not be true. Unless you can corroborate his stories from an independent source, consider that it may not be true. Spaths are pathological liars to a degree that is difficult for normal people to grasp.

He sounds dangerous. You are doing a good thing to protect yourself with greyrock. Try to be absolutely invisible to him. The less he knows, the less power he has to harm you. If he has murdered before, you can be sure he is capable of it. Even if he hasn’t (he may have been trying to frighten you by hinting that he had), all spaths are capable of murder because they don’t have any empathy for others nor a conscience for doing right. Keep yourself safe. You might read A Gift of Fear by Gavin deBecker for some ideas of what spaths can and will do to harm others and some ideas of how to protect yourself.

You did a good thing for yourself and your child to get away from him.

Prayers for you both.

Pmjmommy–I grew up with a sociopathic father (who had a very respected job, etc). When I was a young child, my father would tell me he wanted to smash my head in, shove my teeth down my throat, and so forth. He often said these things with a little smile, and always, always in a calm, deliberate voice. A pleasant voice.

Your husband is terrorizing you with his “Me” “bloodlust” garbage. But you are an adult, a mother. Your 5 year old son has to know by now his father wants to hurt him. Takes pleasure in hurting him.

So–your husband would have no where to go or work? Sorry, but so what? Your son has no where to go. He is forced to live in a home with a father who despises him and hurts him. If your husband is like my sociopathic father, he will *never* change. This is it, Pmj, this is it.

My thought is this: get out. Save yourself, and save your son. Your husband will continue to hurt your son, and terrorize you. This is not love.

I know, he has admitted to dumping 2 bodies in the everglades and never getting caught… I know he will continue to hurt my son, for he admits he does love him and has no guilt when he physically hurts anyone, no pity.

I am having a meeting with my ministers tomorrow night to let them know ALL I know if him, my problem, is…

they believe in helping all people who desire their help, and won’t kick him out of the community, unless he proves dangerous to them…they think he is such a nice guy…how can he hurt a fly?

He is my full financial support… and they feel that as long as he is here desiring to do good, they will help, not kick him to the curb.

It’s like I have to trick him to leave us, all of us, the whole comunity…and them to somehow become a victim, so they see who he is.

And…oh, he acts so nice some times that I feel it’s me…I’m just being critical, you know, no one’s perfect…

The only way I’m holding my ground is because he has admitted sof much to me over the last 6 yrs, that I think… despite his ” I’m trying” he is crazy…

No one admits to disposing bodies and being diagnosed a sociopath by 9 therapist and baker acted, and admits he has no guilt and and can dismember someone and it won’t phase him…admit to not love his son and hearing an auto bless voice who has a blood lust…this is NOT normal… I KNOW this… so despite his roller coaster of being venomous lyrics mean

Sorry, my texting messed up and posted too soon, but to continue…

Despite him being veminous to my son verbally, and confessing how he doesn’t want to be a bad daddy, but a lov8ng good one, he is just struggling etc…

I can’t believe that, because I know too much that he has admitted to me.

Please pray for me, my meeting is tomorrow, they may not believe me… or if they do a little, it can create a disaster as he finds out I told them.

Doesn’t love him…I meant on my first reply


I have prayed for you and your situation, and I will continue to. Please keep us posted.

You might consider contacting a women’s shelter or Domestic Violence shelter for help and advice. You might consider telling law enforcement about the crimes he has told you about. They may be able to help get you away and keep you safe.

Is there somewhere you can go to stay, maybe with relatives or friends far away where he won’t know you are? I am concerned for your safety.

I understand what you’re saying about the ministers maybe not believing how dangerous he is. They may be well meaning, but they are not trained in what to do to keep you safe. They may not know about psychopathy and sociopaths, so they may feel that he’s not as bad and dangerous as you know he is.

You might consider talking to the ministers after you’ve talked to the police and/or talked to a domestic violence shelter. There are hotlines you can call to get help and advice.

I am in a church community and culture; and the ministers meant well, but they did not understand this disorder nor do they have the training to deal with it. My ex psychopath is a pedophile, sadist, pathological liar, among other things, and he is still in the church. He attends another congregation than I do. He has 2 ex wives in the church. Yet he manages to appear as such a nice guy.

I hope and pray everything goes well for you, and that he goes to jail for what he’s done so that he can’t hurt anyone else.

Thank you, AnettePK , I am Mennonite and we usually stay within our religious group, rather then a shelter, but if I was in danger, that they see, I can go to anywhere or country that has mennonites without him knowing where. It’s not that bad or needed yet.

Police… yeah, those crimes, I’m just afraid to say something, an investigation starts, they say… no..no missing dead, during that time…the ball gets dropped with nothing left but a pissed off sociopathic husband with his wife as enemy #1.

He was not a Mennonite when we met but converted because we got together. Mennonites no nothing of sociopath or psychopaths…they have no comprehension what a sick mind is, they take everyone at face value, because they act the same in public as in closed doors… what u see is what u get.

Yes, I’ll keep u updated… thank you

My Ex suddenly found religion once I moved out and he couldn’t leech off of me anymore. He scammed the local church and its members out of hundreds of dollars before his true colors showed in court and they stopped supporting him.

You have a son to worry about. If your ministers will not see that he cannot be helped, you may have to resign yourself to leaving for a different community. If you do, cover your tracks. He will not want to give up on the easy targets that the Mennonite community represents and will pursue you and smear you as long as there is benefit to him from doing so.

Yes, and speaking of ministerial counseling, an abusive husband and I went to a nice church for a couple of Sundays, and then went to the minister for marriage counseling. (1) after the session, my then husband lashed out at me, screaming that I’d said to much in the session: (2) the minister totally took my husband’s side, and blamed ME for all the problems we were having; (3) this session broke up our marriage. This is so out-of-date it makes me ill to think that many ministers still blame the woman for problems in the home, no matter how abusive the man is, no matter what evidence the minister has that the man is the aggressor. Of course, these are male ministers I’m describing, and, there are abusive spouses in gay partnerships, too, but of course ministers like the one I experienced would not even welcome gays or lesbians to their church services, or even CONSIDER counseling them about their relationships. As I wrote in a to pmjmommy in another post, a group called ARMS, Abuse Recovery Ministry and Services, with chapters in some parts of the United States, do active outreach ministers, with Bible texts, to educate them about how it’s not always a “rebellious” or “disobedient” wife who is disrupting the “happy home.”

Yrs, NoMoreWool, the mennonites can be scared easily… they give him housing, suppers, utilities, a job at $13 an hr, that he works only when he wants… plus they gave him all he needed to start a business…

They push no one away, one lady bum..locally, scammed one family for $15k, and though they know she lied, they still help her everything she cries.

I am so anxious for tonight’s meeting, I feel throw up sick!

But, yes, I will see how this story unfolds, but if I felt I needed too..yes, I would have to escape or something.

Honestly, I can’t see him ever leaving here, for he gets too much from them.

I hope the meeting goes well, but your anxiety is probably based on your subconscious knowledge that it won’t be helpful and that it could make things harder for you, despite the ministry meaning well.

Let us know how it turns out.

Never did an update, but FYI…. yes he confessed most of everything and it’s even recorded. But now , time passed. Been considering leaving myself, I lost most fellowship as some folks feel I’m digging into a mans struggled rather then just praying for God to help him through it…. I’m the heathen now, as this humble poor guy is just trying to live right,… Blah, blah, blah.

Well, 2 and 1/2 hrs later, and my meeting is over…. seems, beside shock, and feeling they need to find some way for him to open up to them, so they can “work with him” really, no one, nor myself knows what to do, or rather, we know protecting my son is key issue… but how to implement that, is a… well, a path we don’t know how to accomplish yet.

I think, that will be requesting a meeting with him, to see what he reveals and how he reacts, then hopefully, have another direction…

Please be careful.

I think they r going to talk to him, see how much he confesses but guide him to go to the police himself, as an act of repentance, better then me attacking him or going behind his back.

His reaction will tell a lot


How are things going? I hope and pray you are safe and are on the way to getting free of him.

My ex psychopath fake ‘confessed’ to wrong doing that others already knew about anyway, whenever he was caught. When an adult who knows right from wrong confesses when they have been caught, it’s not really a confession. My ex was a master manipulator, pathological liar and an exploiter.

When I discovered he was doing porn after he’d said he’d given it up (after being caught), the first thing he said was, “They’ll never make me a minister now!” He did not care a bit about how I felt and how his behavior impacted me. I eventually figured out that he married me because he wanted to be a minister (because he wants to be important, not because he wants to serve others) and he knew being married would help him achieve it. He just wanted to use me, he isn’t even interested in adult women.


I’m sorry to hear that, I am also a Christian (Mennonite)so I understand, how u are feeling.

Sorry for his false confession, mine however us NOT false, he really did kill and dismembered and disposed of 2 people, and got away with it.

Seems mennonites feel, it is a forgiven sin, so let the past be past and focus on present.

He confessed to minister about the voices and when asked if he wants to be prayed over, to get rid of them, he said ” no, then I would be lonely” :/

So now I wait…..


Thank you for your caring. My ex confessed to things he really did, but only things that he was caught doing. He may have done other things that he doesn’t confess to. When my ex confessed, it really wasn’t for the purpose of repenting/changing. It was to manipulate others.

Do you hope that your husband is sincere and that he will change, or do you hope to leave the marriage? Is this your first marriage? Don’t feel that you have to answer.

Because my ex did pornography (for decades) and because he left the marriage (when I discovered what he was doing), I am unbound from the marriage per Matthew 19:9 and 1 Corinthians 7:15.

How do you feel about reporting these crimes to law enforcement? If it is true, it may be very helpful to the investigation of unsolved missing persons.
If he is capable of doing these things he is probably still dangerous to people.

I felt the way you did, about marriages, until the Mennonites challenged my second marriage…he is my 2nd. And upon studying about the head covering, and studying from early church ( meaning before the formation of the catholic church, I mean like 80AD-200AD, the disciples of the deciples) I realized that God doesn’t see court papers, but man and women were meant to be “one” till death…. and God recognized 2nd, legal marriages as adultry… that divorce is only a shunning till the offender repents, but not a licence for a second marriage while the first is alive. Read SHEPPARD OF HERMAS… on marriages, it was in bible until the KJV 1901 printing…

This was a 2 yr study and hard but to chew… so I will understand u thinking I’m wrong… but anyhow… we separated and live in separate houses…but share custody…

I wish he would change and be a repentant christian, but like ur ex… he doesn’t repent, he brags, mostly to me, to prove his craziness…and it’s working, so if he can’t change, for all our safety I hope God reveals his sin and he is removed.

Is your first husband still living? I was widowed from my first husband. He was a very good man.

Sorry to hear that 🙁 do you have children with either? How old r they? How are they taking this? How long have you been married to sociopath?

We have been married almost 6 years and have a 5yr old son together, have no idea how this will end up…only pray and wait, I guess

Ps… divorce is also for safety…lol. b nice if they truly repented

Yes, unfortunately…lol… he was the Porno drunk…

Sorry for short answer..I’m drivibg

I hope you’re not driving and posting here at the same time; that could be dangerous.

I have a 20 year old son from my first marriage to the good guy. He and I both are still recovering from the abuse and insanity of my marriage to the psychopath. I’ve been out of the second marriage for about 4 years now. My life is much better. I have been blessed in many ways, and I am happy and content now.

I was at a stopping point while driving, so I answered quickly..

That’s good that you have been free for 4yrs, how long were you married? Your son has had rough life, his daddy dying, then being a victim to a psycopath during his young teen years… smh… sorry.

I just don’t know how mine will turn out… keep me in prayer please, my son is 5… God bless you.

Glad you’re a safe driver!

Thank you again for your caring. We were only ‘married’ a couple of years.

You and your son are in my prayers. I hope and pray you can be free of your dangerous and harmful abuser; and that you and your son will recover quickly from the emotional, psychological, financial, and spiritual harm the abuser did to you; and that you will be kept safe from him forever.

Thank you, God is the one in control, so as I trust in Him, He will help my path.

I am praying for you and your son as well.

I know I’m about 4 yrs late on this article. I stumbled across this late last night, could not have been more perfectly timed. I have mediation with my soon-to-be ex today. This really helped reaffirm my approach that I have been taking with him over the last 2 months. He has been trying to regain control by using our toddler. I still continue to refuse to engage him. Thank you so much for posting this. And I am so very grateful for this website.

Mediation is dangerous. I would never use mediation except in some small, very unusual situations Here’s why it’s dangerous. In many cases, such as dealing with a sociopath, psychopath, or otherwise vicious person, what we have here is: one honest person who truly wants to work out the problems the two are having. The other person is dishonest and malevolent. He or she will USE THE HONEST COMMENTS against the honest person. The sociopath, or etc., will use his/her suave and convincing persona to manipulate the mediator. After the session — sometimes IMMEDIATELY UPON WALKING OUT THE DOOR of the mediation our counseling room (as my ex- did) — to attack, emotionally abuse, guilt trip things the honest person said/”revealed” in the session. Hushmommy, can you cancel your mediation session today? If not, at least be very private in what you “reveal.” Make sure the sociopath does not learn anything new about you!

It’s true that it’s not possible to negotiate/work things out/mediate with a spath. However, it’s often necessary to go through the motions or the victim will be labelled uncooperative, etc. If the mediator is aware of spath behavior and spath motives and is not manipulated by the spath, the mediation process can be a forum that exposes the spath. It can also turn out badly for the victim.

Sounds like your ex spath twisted everything around to use against you. It might not be in Hushmommy’s best interest to cancel mediation at the last minute because she may be labelled uncooperative. Good advice to keep the spath’s motives in mind and be very careful to protect from the spath’s subtle and overt attacts.

Hushmommy,I think this board is always active despite the years gone by. Lol.

My spath is very abusive to our son but ok with me. He actually confessed his evilness that me as his supposed “confidant” I.e killing two people and chopping them up and ok with it.

Mine was baker acted in psych ward 2 times and fortunately so afraid she f going back that he has agreed to give me full custody. We r still waiting legal divorce.

However my problem and advice needed would be….

My son loves having a dad, loves his dad despite abuse. We r Mennonites so there is no divorce, all have daddy’s. That care. So when my son is away from dad, he feels rejected or something, like to only kid without a dad. And starts getting depressed.

What r ur all thoughts? I was going to leave the state to another fellowship but because of this. I wander if he will become unstable.

Pjmommy, my son is 2 and a half. He sees his dad maybe 1 day out of 14 since he was 1. He loves his dad, & I want his dad in his life, but I won’t allow him to have a chance to learn this manipulative behavior from him. I am lucky, my dad has stepped in & my s.o.& he have a very strong bond (instantly, from the moment they met.) As much as I want to create as normal of a childhood for him as possible, as his mother I will do everything to protect him, even if that means not seeing his father said much. He may not like it & be mad at me sometimes as he’s growing up, but hopefully he’ll understand why when he’s an adult. That’s just my view for my situation.

Hushmommy,You sound very wise, to (mostly anyway) separate your small son from his dad. You wrote: “I won’t allow him [your son] to have a chance to learn this manipulative behavior from him.” I wish a close relative of mine had had your insight. She stayed with her then-husband for 22 years. I don’t know if he’s a spath or not, but he’s a serious alcoholic, emotionally abusive, watches low level porn on TV a lot of the time, and anti-social . At work, I guess he’s a different person, because he retired from a very, very good, highly paid Federal government job. Anyway, my relative wanted her two boys to have a father, and a family. Little did she suspect that her sweet, loving sons would grow up to be very much like their dad….disrespectful of her, rude, uncooperative, are the least of it. One of her sons did a master’s degree video, showed it publicly as part of his finals before her graduated. The video had photographs of women’s vaginas, and masturbation. My relative, who loves her sons in spite of it all, said with a sigh, “Well, he IS his father’s son, too.” One more thing about her, though — probably she turns her sons off, because she over-parents them, even though they are over 40 years old and making good livings for themselves and their families.

That sounds like a very difficult decision to make, and very hard to discern what to do. I don’t think there is an easy well defined answer as to which choice is best. There are so many variables that it’s difficult as to what will be the best for your son in the long run. You might make a list of the pros and cons of your son continuing contact with his Dad, and moving away. Consider all the possible outcomes you can think of and the pros and cons for you as well as for your son.

If you continue where you are and your son continues to have contact with his dad, you can make an effort to keep communication lines open between you and your son so that he will feel comfortable telling you about anything his dad is doing or saying that is wrong. The spath dad is likely to use his relationship with his son for some manipulative purpose if he can.

Consider that if you move away, your son may recover and do ok, but if you see he’s not doing well and you feel he would be better of having contact with his dad, you can always move back, or schedule visitation or whatever. If you are a single mom and your son’s dad is not around, other men in the community may step in and spend time with your son and take him under their wing. They are not likely to do that as long as his dad is around.

So many variables…. I’ll pray for your decision. Take care.

Dear AnnettePK, From your Comment, you wrote: “other men in the community may step in and spend time with your son and take him under their wing. They are not likely to do that as long as his dad is around.” Please be very, very, very careful about “other men in the community,” including well recommended programs! My ex was a “big brother” through the YMCA. That only reference he had was my dad! So in fact, Daddy — while believing he was doing the right thing — was the first crack in a chain of events and actions, that enabled my ex- to get his teaching certification years later! Had my dad not written the recommendation, this sociopath would never have gotten the YMCA volunteer job, which led to a college degree, student teaching where he shook a child and was suspended, then reinstated, then got his teaching Master’s Degree.

The Little Brother and my ex-went on a train trip across the country to visit ex-‘s family. I am sure that the child was present in pot-smoking parties or family events where pot was smoked.

Then, for some unknown reason, he cut the child completely out of his life, when they returned from the train trip.

Another (shorter) thing about the Big Brother program at the Y. A man friend of mine had entered the program when a boy was young. When I knew the man, the kid had “turned on him,” was stalking him and scaring him.

I hope the Big Brother program at the Y has improved its security by now. These events were 20 years ago, but they show you how things could turn out in any stranger-to-child interaction.


What a nightmare experience, but sadly it happens. Thank you for your advice to caution.

I was referring to PMJMommy’s Mennonite community, which may have a decreased risk due to long term stability and day to day transparency and accountability related to the community lifestyle and structure.

In my experience being widowed and raising a son, adult men and teens who mentored my son backed off when I married the spath and my son now had a ‘step father.’

One always needs to be careful in every situation. My ex psychopath operates in a church community. However the members are spread out geographically, and there is no day to day contact outside church services and activities, so it’s easy for him to put on his mask for a couple of hours each week.

I was very trusting before I encountered my ex psychopath. I really didn’t think people like that really existed. Now I am very suspicious of anyone I know and some I have known for a long time – to the point of being a bit paranoid. I hope to find a balance of caution and vigilance that still allows me to have meaningful interactions with people. I have shut myself down from being close to anyone I don’t already know who is outside my little circle.

That is exactly my tactic Annettepk I go along with everything so I don’t look combative. He’s the one that has agreed to 3 separate agreements then changed his mind right before court.

I am at mediation right now. My lawyer is an hour late (he’s stuck in court,) I am about to walk out. At this point with “D” (my ex) I know to never reveal anything. I do want to work our problems out, however, I was a very strong, independent woman before we got married. He turned me into an overweight shell of the woman that I use to be. In the last year & a half I have lost 40 lbs, acquired a very understanding s.o., gained a lot of who I use to be back, & I am in college. He has acquired another victim, they are ‘engaged’, & they are trying to replace me with her. Being detached from him over this time I am able to look at the bigger overall picture. I want to make this painless as possible, however, I am not moving an inch. He’s throwing out wild accusations now & I’ve just been silent, saving every text & email. I have photographs of his drug abuse & alcoholism. He has no proof of anything he is saying about me & I can prove that everything he is saying is inaccurate. I always told him that he thinks that he is smarter than me, but he isn’t. He’s messed with the wrong woman this time, because momma bear don’t play that & I am standing up to him. He has met his match with me, he just doesn’t know it yet… Sorry this is so long. I’m ampt up & feeling strong.

Hushmommy, how did it go?

Hushmommy I heard a woman say, if she didn’t react to her abusive husband, he would go after the children so keep that in mind.

O, “D” has threatened me with that. But I know he has nothing to use against me. “D” is a nonviolent sociopath. He enjoys the (pardon my French) mind-fucking games.

Keep in mind that all spath disordered people are potentially physically as well as emotionally violent. They do not have the moral and conscience restraints that prevent normal people from harming others. Spaths will do and say whatever they think will work for them in any given situation, if they think they won’t get caught.

Spaths will do whatever they think will work. My ex spath got the most mileage hurting me by harming my minor son.

Making your ex spath think you won’t be so bothered by your children being harmed may help protect them. From the greyrock article above:
“Here is where Gray Rock can be applied selectively to draw attention away from what really matters to you. In general, show no emotion to the offending behaviors or words. The psychopath will try different tactics to see which ones get a reaction. With Selective Gray Rock, you choose to respond to the tactic which matters least to you. This will focus the psychopath’s attention on that issue. Remember, the psychopath has no values, so he doesn’t understand what is valuable to us unless we show him. Selective Gray Rock shows him a decoy. When protecting our children, we can take a lesson from nature: Bird parents who have fledglings are known to feign a broken wing when a predator is in the vicinity. They fake a vulnerability to detract the cat’s attention from their real vulnerability, their babies. In this example, Selective Gray Rock fades all emotions into the background except the ones you want the predator to see.”


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