It is likely you are reading this because a sociopath said “I love you” and you believed him/her. You also probably thought that when the sociopath said “I love you” he/she used these words as you do, to express a sense of intimacy, passion and commitment. However, what a sociopath says and what a sociopath does are so different it can be crazy making.
In the aftermath of a relationship with a sociopath, former romantic partners are left to wonder, “Just what was going on in that person’s mind?” “What was he/she thinking?” Many people have written in asking, “Did he/she really love me?” and “Do you think he/she loves that other person now?” It is the second question many find most disturbing.
In 1943, Dr. Abraham Maslow in his classic paper, A theory of human motivation, declared that psychopaths lack the capacity and motivation for love. “The so-called ‘psychopathic personality’ is another example of permanent loss of the love needs. These are people who, according to the best data available (9), have been starved for love in the earliest months of their lives and have simply lost forever the desire and the ability to give and to receive affection (as animals lose sucking or pecking reflexes that are not exercised soon enough after birth). ”
Contemporaneously with Maslow, Dr. Hervey Cleckley described psychopaths in The Mask of Sanity and developed a set of criteria for their identification. According to Cleckley (criteria #9), psychopathy is associated with “pathological egocentricity and incapacity for love.” He declared “The psychopath seldom shows anything that, if the chief facts were known, would pass even in the eyes of lay observers as object love.”
Cleckley also maintained that an “absolute” incapacity for love is even found in those with an “incomplete manifestation” of psychopathy, who lack the full disorder. Writing in 1956, Drs.McCord and McCord disagreed with Cleckley and Maslow. They described psychopaths as having “a warped capacity for love” stating, “there are indications that the capacity, however under developed, still exists .”
My guess is that the McCords got fooled just like you and I and a recent paper shows us why.
Dr. Barbara Gawda at Maria Curie-Skldowska University Poland studied the “Love Scripts” of sociopaths. Love scripts are simply ideas about love that a person has. These ideas include how people fall in love, and what people in love are supposed to do.
Dr. Gawda showed a picture of a man and a woman hugging to 60 sociopaths in prison, 40 prisoners without disorder and 100 university students. She asked all participants to write a story about the picture and to imagine themselves as one of the characters.
The sociopaths stories were significantly longer, more detailed, and more self-centered than the other two groups. Contrary to expectations then sociopaths do not lack love schemas. They are perfectly adept and perhaps more adept than most in talking about love. The findings of this study jive completely with my own clinical experience. That is, over the years many people I knew to be sociopaths told me about their love experiences. Their stories were impressive and had me believing that they were capable of love.
If clinicians, scientists, lovers and family members rely on verbal reports, they will never come to understand the lack of capacity to love that characterizes sociopaths. Cleckley reached his conclusions about psychopathy and love only after observing their actions over a number of years. He also said this,
“In a sense, it is absurd to maintain that the psychopath’s incapacity for object love is absolute, that is, to say he is (in)capable of affection for another ”¦ He is plainly capable of casual fondness, of likes and dislikes, and of reactions that, one might say, cause others to matter to him. These affective reactions are, however, always strictly limited in degree. In durability they also vary greatly from what is normal in mankind. The term absolute is, I believe, appropriate if we apply it to any affective attitude strong and meaningful enough to be called love, that is, anything that prevails in sufficient degree and over sufficient periods to exert a major influence on behavior.”
References
A theory of human motivation. Maslow, A. H.; Psychological Review, Vol 50(4), Jul, 1943. pp. 370-396
McCord, W and McCord, J (1956) Psychopathy and Delenquency New York: Grune and Stratton, Inc. page 13
Love scripts of persons with antisocial personality.Gawda B.
Psychological Reports 2008, 103, 371-380.
This study compared the scripts of love among 60 prison inmates diagnosed with Antisocial Personality Disorder and those of 40 inmates without an Antisocial Personality Disorder diagnosis but low antisocial tendencies, and a control group of 100 adult students in extramural or evening secondary schools without Antisocial Personality Disorder traits. The study focused on emotional knowledge about love of the group with Antisocial Personality Disorder, as they present lack of capacity for love. The study was done to examine how they perceive love and how much knowledge they have about love. All described their reactions to a photograph of a couple hugging each other. The content of these scripts, analyzed in terms of description of actors, their actions and emotions, and length of description, was compared among the groups. The scripts of love by antisocial inmates contained more actors’ feelings and strong emotions, as well as more descriptions of actors’ traits, their actions, and presumptions. The inmates with Antisocial Personality Disorder showed more focus on themselves when they described love than the other inmates and the controls.
KIM,
GOOD ANALYSIS—it is double speak. Everytime a self-proclaimed psychopath comes here and bloggers engage in a respectful social conversation with them, or tries to convince them of something, or the psychopath tries to win pity or sympathy it is always the same thing. Just an exercise in futility.
MariaLisa, there are blogs and websites for self proclaimed or wanna-be psychopaths to brag about how they came here and caused a ruckus–since they have discovered LF, there will be one or two (either covertly or overtly) coming here and blogging sometimes. Some of them say “Oh, yes, but I am a kinder gentler psychopath, I DO want love and I don’t really like to hurt people, so pity me…understand me….” YUK!!! Others come here and pose as victims, wanting advice, then go back to their psychopath’s sites and chortle.
The best thing is to RECOGNIZE what these people are, whether they say they are Ps or just act like Ps, IGNORE THEM and do not give them what they want–ATTENTION. They are obviously here to learn how to put one over on us, or to provoke us, but the best thing is to just IGNORE THEM. No Contact, just like you would in Real Life—this poster has been here before as a self proclaimed psychopath, and others with similar names that may or may not have been psychopaths but were disruptive, none-the-less.
This site is about healing victims OF psychopaths, not about feeling pity for their inability to behave with kindness and empathy toward others. By DEFINITION, psychopaths are manipulative, incapable of empathy, and are NOT alturistic in nature. That doesn’t mean they don’t have DESIRES for things, they do—control, superiority over others, sex without caring, and lots of other things. Not things an empathetic and caring person would desire.
Oxy
Read what I wrote as a ( only one time!) response; the same as what you just said. I agree with you and Kim! Its clear this person is not here to heal, so this is not the right blog for this person and let’s not waste more time on it;)
Another question: Do you have experiences/or remember someone here who has, with peepsheet or would you recommend it? Any legal repercussions?
Cherre: I experienced “catching” his sickness, his emotions for awhile. *I* became envious for the first time in my life. *I* started becoming status conscience, etc….Now, after NC, I’m back to MY values and all those awful feelings are gone. It will get better and you are on your way!
Dear MariaLisa,
There have been several of these “sites” that out cyberopaths or psychopaths and some are successful and some not, unfortunately, I’m not sure tha tmost people check these sites before they get involved with someone.
Rather than you trying to “out” him, or even think about him, or seek revenge in any way, I woujld suggest that you just cut him out of your thoughts as much as possible, and CONCENTRATE ON MAKING YOURSELF THE BEST THAT YOU CAN BE. We (victims) I think in our anger and hurt want to lash out, expose them, call the next victim and warn them (usually that is futile too) we obscess on the abuser, and that is a normal stage of the healing, but at some point, it ceases to be ABOUT THEM and becomes ABOUT US.
What was it that made ME put up with that kind of behavior? What was it about ME that made me blind to what s/he was? and so on. Then, in realizing that like many people, we have tried to leave them and failed, gone back, allowed it to continue because we loved them so much. Why did we continue to love someone who gave us such pain?
We can’t, as you know, change them, but we can change our behavior toward people who hurt us, without genuine remorse or any empathy….as we heal, we become stronger and realize that no one can provide us happiness, we can provide it for ourselves….we can love ourselves enough to not let anyone abuse us physically or emotionally.
It takes time to work through all of this and it isn’t a 1-2-3 sequence either, you may go 1-5-3-1-9-2-7, jumping back and forth from one stage to the other in no order at all, but eventually, if you keep on working and processing, you will come to the point that you no longer care about them, you reach a nirvana of INDIFFERENCE. It happened, you learned from it, and you truly move on, a better, wiser and stronger person. Keep on the road to healing and NEVER let yourself be lured off to the side—into the FOG (fear, obligation or guilt) but keep a clear vision and a clear purpose, to HEAL YOURSELF AND STAY HEALTHY!!!! (((HUGS)))))
Cherre: And your problems are NOT petty. Pain is pain. But I have learned to “turn down the thermostat” and not get SO into my pain. We can learn to regulate our emotions. And a good way is by thinking just the thoughts that you are thinking. NOT that you problems are petty, but that there ARE those with worse problems.
Even at the dentist yesterday I used that. She had to give me 6 shots of pain killer and warned me that some she could not numb first. I didn’t wince or anything and she said, you were brave. I said no, I just kept thinking how glad I was that this was not an NG tube. (I don’t know if you’ve ever had one of those tubes inserted that goes through your nose to your stomach but it hurts!)
So with the P/S/N I say things like, well, at least he didn’t kill me! LOL!
Is my fiancé a narcissist?
Hello to you all and thank you so much for reading 🙂
I met him (he is 41) on a dating site (February) and started dating, everything was fine, on June he proposed with a beautiful 3000 ring and I accepted, right after the engagement he asked me to live in with him, I asked him if he was *sure* and he was absolutely sure about me moving in with him, after all, the wedding date is/was this December 09.
I sold EVERYTHING: furniture left my small apartment, everything. 4 days after moving in with him his mother (who I suspect is a N) called him and asked him if he was *sure* about me, he has daughters (who like me very much and are good girls, they stay at his place 4 days a week), she also told him that it was to quick (I kind of agree) for me to move in because he has 2 daughters, she was mad about me moving in and after her call he changed a lot. To the extreme of asking me to move out after I had sold everything, I didn’t have a bed to sleep on, absolutely nothing.
So, I had to move out and found an apartment, bought a bed and after a few days he started calling me and emailing me, he said he was very sorry, asking for forgiveness and begging for a chance, that he had talked to his sisters and told them that I had nothing and that he asked me to move out because we weren’t married *yet* (his sisters advice him to find me and talk and solve issues, they were nice), when HE was the one who begged for me to move in; he was worried about his daughters, that maybe it wasn’t the right move because we were not married WHEN his daughters like me very much and I want to believe I am a good woman and I am a good role model.
So, I took his calls and apologies and he told me that his house was my house, that I belonged there and that he made a mistake. I moved in again and then a few days later I found a text message that he sent to a woman, he told her “I don’t know what to do with this woman (me), she wants to move in, I am stressed and I want to cancel the wedding”. All this after he apologized and asked me to move in again. Of course I was with the idea to stay in my place, he in his and then take it from there but I believed him, I believed that he loved me and then to see the text he sent her, it broke my heart.
He can not ask for forgiveness (everyone deserves a chance) and then text a woman saying that I am the one who is filtrating in his life, that is so immoral”
I am alone because I don’t have family members to support me, just a good dear friend and her husband, so he took advantage and did whatever went through his mind.
I confronted him about the text and he told me she is a friend (he has NEVER met her) from a few years (from a dating site btw) and that he needed to talk to someone. I told him he had a double standard morality and that it was wrong to beg for me to come back and then 4 days later tell a stranger, a woman, that he is not in love and that *I* am the one who wants to live with him. That was a lie because he insisted.
Also, I am having a little bit of financial issues and asked him for 200 dollars to pay some bills and he did not help me, he says he has no money when he is about to buy a condo and spent 100 dollars on a helmet, 60 dollars on a new pair of shoes, buys things he doesn’t need, etc. my case was almost an emergency and he did not help, I told him I was going to give him his money back but he did not help, I was not asking for a free favor or free money, not my style, I just needed help and he did not help, take in mind that I sold everything for him and he wasn’t capable of lending me a few dollars. So this was another huge red flag.
On the other hand, he says that it was *our* mistake, that we moved too fast; I agree with it, a little bit, but my point and what it makes me think of him as a N is the way he asked me to move out when I had nothing, then asked me to move in again and then the lies to his female friend, and then the money, etc. its just too much!
Right now I am trying to save some money and taking things slowly and if things go ok financially, I will move out in a few weeks maybe a month at the most. It’s sad but I don’t think he is going to change and I don’t think I should marry a man who did this to me TWICE, aside from the fact that I don’t feel support from him. Also, he is VERY loving with his daughters and clients/family so I am dealing with a *perfect image man* and nobody would believe how much it hurts to believe a promise of engagement to then be kicked out.
I know I am not perfect but his patterns show more than just an imperfect and insecure man, he as no feelings really, he doesn’t see how much he hurt me, he sees it but he doesn’t *understand*, as he did it again and again.
Anw, I am ok and hoping to do the best and trying to save money, do you have any ideas? I am still struggling with the doubt, if he is or not a N (?)
Thank you so much for your time, I appreciate it very much!
Ox: as usual excellent post. The anchor holds. 🙂
You know: I understand these people cannot feel what we do or behave as we do. Now, how can they go from understanding, caring, very kind children into these P adults, as in my case? I understand genetics is very strong and I will cite another point in that regard. My first P X contacted me via facebook as I posted. He talked a little while and I was interested in his personality now that I know and understand all this….I kept him at a distance [contact by internet only] and just listened. He spun the same old BS, this time I understood it and saw thru it. [then I broke all contact and ditched him after I found out what I wanted to know] However, I was so interested in seeing how much alike my kids by him were to him- now that they are grown…..and I can tell you, it was eerie to hear his personality so much like my kids….yet they were raised w/o him in their lives [he abandoned them]. I didn’t really see these traits surface until they became adults with choices to make on their own. So, while I know it’s genetic, I also believe much of their behavior is a choice of just giving into what they want and who they are rather than making a conscience effort to become better and more caring. I know when I feel some things I realize are selfish or perhaps not caring enough I make a choice to override those feelings and rise above them. It’s not really my personality to be that way so it’s easier but still….think about it….we do make choices to NOT behave badly and practice self control. My second PX….could control his behavior when it was of benefit to him to do so. It was not a real change of heart or attitude but it was control. Comments? Thanks!
Marialisa…. maybe Matt will see your question. I have listed on those sites and all I said was “If you have concerns about this person, please send me an email.” The site I used sets up an email for you to use anonymously. But you could create your own anonymous account on yahoo or something, though of course the police could trace it to your computer. But if all you are stating is the truth, I think you are safe legally. Only you know what might happen if your x saw it.
I have sense decided that if someone is aware enough to look on those sites, they are probably aware enough to figure out what the guy is up to anyway!
justabouthealed
thanks. right, thats true, and because my ex lies so well, i would think it would have no purpose putting it up there waiting for them to find it. i eman i only hear of it now that the damage has long been done, and i have really worked to find out his entire bullshit lies. he confused most to the extent THEY feel crazy. so: peepsheet has an option to have it posted on search engines. meaning if his name is searched on google he will peep up. i think your comment is brilliant! the ‘if you have concerns about this person, please send me an email’. thanks justabouthealed.
I hope more people will respond to this post…
In doubt… my advice would be to move out now and not to take his calls or speak to him anymore, this is coming from a woman (me) who put up with 14 years of this crap, WASTED 14 YEARS!! I waited and hoped and waited and hoped that he would change, he didn’t. It doesn’t matter if he’s an N, S, or P, or whatever…. he’s BAD NEWS. I don’t believe the woman he texted to is just some woman he never met, that sounds like a LIE to me. It took me 50 years to realize that if I love myself, natural boundaries will surround me, and I won’t let anyone treat me lilke that anymore. Sorry if I sound a little intense, but I don’t want to see you waste precious time the way I did. As Oxy would say… ONE red flag is enough! You have lots and lots of them, don’t ignore them as I used to do, I looked right through the red flags, and it got me nowhere.