Nobel laureate Elie Wiesel is just one person who has said the following: “The opposite of love is not hate, it’s indifference”. In other words, the opposite of love is not hate, as might have been expected. We’ve all heard this contention and been struck by it. Yes, we’ve thought, it is terrible to be ignored. (Pretty awful being hated too, of course.)
But I’m grateful to Dawn Eden for mentioning another powerful proposition.
Eden, promoting her book ‘The Thrill of the Chaste’, is currently visiting Canadian high schools.
The students seemed interested when I told them what Pope John Paul II called “the opposite of love.” It’s not hate, as some of them guessed when I asked them what they thought it would be, nor is it indifference. It’s use.
“People sometimes use people because they hate them,” I said. “But you don’t have to hate someone to use them. That’s why use is more dangerous than hate. You can use someone while fooling yourself into thinking you love them.”
On reading this I immediately thought of the life stories told at Lovefraud. This concept of love vs use seems to have much promise when it comes to making sense of life with a psychopath. For instance a minor change of the last sentence by Eden goes as follows: “You can use someone while fooling them into thinking you love them”.
Too early in the morning for me to fully assimilate all of this, but I’m bowled over by the absolute simplicity, yet absolute powerfulness, of the statement. I need to think on it.
Yes, use is it.
I always felt used, and then I was used up.
I instinctively knew I was being “managed” – manipulated-
I knew it all along. But I guess my own need for a friend and my genuine feelings overrided the truth.
I recall I even told the psycho I knew he was “managing” me….that just pissed him off. Objects are to objecytified, not answer back– I was only to provide positive feedback when I didn’t,I was discarded, but I continue to be smeared by him. It’s not enough I was used,I have to be destroyed because I refuse to be recycled.
Thank God- I am away from that psycho.
ps
The use point is HUGE for me. That was my stumbling block in understanding how this person was NOT my friend despite the “attention” I was given. It made no sense- until I GOT I was just an ear. There was a non-sexual relationship, despite his desire, so he used me to listen.
I mean for hours droning on about his interests, opinions, conspiracy theories (oh boy- those were ridiculous) all about him every day. He had NO interest in me at all- never asked me anything- except “How are you?” And then trailed off into whatever he wanted…if I dared say how I was…I knew there’d be silence and an immediate hang-up. I was the equivalent of phone-sex ( NO SEX talk) …I mean I was just there to listen to him when he wanted. I called him ONCE of my own volition I recall and purposefully asked if he could chat, he said yes. I mentioned something about my day-I did this b/c I wanted equal time, he said he had to go. WTF
It blows my mind I put up with this, and I took the same txt from someone else after him. Both people claimed to hold superior views in every topic from mine. I was to be a student. The second person was nicer, did listen for a bit to me, but then proceeded to treat me like a child- despite an age difference and the fact I have much morelife experience.
I tolerated this use because I guess I thought they’d get around to being friends, that they were eccentric. Nope just bores- one a psycho too. And looking back I have had a few friends like this. I should be a psychologist apprently I am excellent at listening and am used to not expressing an opinion. : )
This brings to mind a recent study where people who scored high on a psychopathy inventory were asked about their emotional experience. These “psychopaths” reported the same affection, trust etc. as everyone else. I believe that they feel power and label it love.
That study makes “sense” that the Ps would report “affection” and “trust” and “Love”–these are words that represent concepts, and they know the WORDS but not the “feelings” that go with them, so they associate A FEELING with that word but it is not the same feeling that WE would associate with the same word.
Dr. Hare mentioned one P-woman who said “Of course I love my children!” but had no idea that FEEDING them or any nursturing behavior would have been associated with the WORD “love” in anyone’s mind.
I think, using BOTH of the very concise and precise phrases, that the opposite of LOVE is not hate, but INDIFFERENTLY USING someone. Incorporating both these ideas into one concept makes more sense than either alone, though both are true in their own ways.
To me, LOVE is an ACT, not just a “squishy” feeling caused by hormones. The Bible tells us to “Love your enemies” but it is not suggesting that we have a “Squishy” feeling about that enemy, but to ACT GOOD toward them rather than vengefully and hatefully.
Using someone is of course a BAD ACT, with or without the hormonally-induced “squishy” feelings, therefore, Using someone is NOT LOVE. Indifference to someone is also NOT LOVE because it is NOT a POSITIVE ACT. So USING & INDIFFERENCE are NOT =LOVE.
I can be indifferent to you, as I walk by you on the street, because I dont know you. If you are say, instead of just walking by me, you are lying on the street bleeding and I walk by and do not offer assistance, I think this is MORE THAN JUST ORDINARY INFIFFERENCE, but CALLOUSNESS instead. So CALLOUSNESS to suffering of another is also NOT LOVE.
I think the P is all of the above, he/she is indifferent to others, callous to other’s sufferings, and uses others, and none of those equal “love.”
I too felt totally used. Not at first, but I did start to feel that way and brought it to his attention. He said, “dont say that…”
then when I found out he was HIV positive, it all made sense. He was infact using me. He was never going to tell me. The callousness he showed after I found out was unimaginable. To this day he has showed zero remorse or guilt. He’ll never ever empthasize with they way that made me feel. How could he? If he could, he would have never exposed me the way he did.
It is a hopeless case. He is a hopeless case.
It’s hard to be indifferent to someone that could have killed you.
I still feel hate sometimes when I think too much about it.
I havent seen him in months….but I expect to….soon. He’s moving back to this town after a 3 month break.
O joy.
I’m trying not to let it bother me, but i remember what it was like running into him often after the fact. That dark cloud looming overhead every where I go.
It was nice knowing I wasnt going to run into him.
Any advice on how to handle seeing him again is appreciated.
Dodged that’s hard- I see mine way too often- sometimes everyday.
OK- and I have been no contact almost a yr. What I do– scan…glaze over where psycho is until I am past.
DO NOT LOOK DIRECTLY AT A PSYCHo…sort of like the sun.
And sometimes I keep my gaze directed down when I know I may see psycho….plus I make every reasonable effort to avoid them. I have altered my life a bit. And I hope to make a move soon that will rid me of them once and for all,but that may not happen. In the mean time- I know I am happier just rerouting my life a bit. Try it.
Dodged,
I wish I could tell you how to not feel that anger about someone so callously trying to kill you—at least I don’t have to see my P-son face to face, and tha tis a good thing. The Trojan Horse P, I can look at face to face, because I never loved him or trusted him much, so not a big emotional attachment loss like you must feel.
HWS’s technique might be effective for you, I sure can’t think of a better one if you run into him. I think hers is sort of like my “potted plant” treatment, just act like they aren’t there or that yo don’t even see them. Hard I know if you are still feeling the anger.
Giving up on the anger is difficult and some days I feel like mine is gone, then it will sneak back out for a day or so, or even a few minutes. I don’t DENY that it is there, but I just deal with it…yep, I’m angry, but I don’t want to dwell on it. Not DENY the anger, can’t do that either, but admit it and that I don’t want to feel that, because it only hurts ME, not them. They don’t CARE if you are angry, and sometimes they LIKE you being angry, it proves that you NOTICE THEM. They are important to you (even if in a negative sense) they would rather be noticed with anger than ignored. That’s why NC is so frustrating to them.
This article may sum up a few things for my problems: I have a terrible time being indifferent — to anyone. I mean, even to people just in visual range. 🙁
I’m hyper people-aware. Was writing about that last night. And always worrying about people I know, can’t let go of the people I love, can’t let them stay angry with me (today my oldest daughter said “you drove me crazy with your f’n forgiveness” and we started laughing. I never allowed her to stay angry without trying to talk it over with her. Without trying to make up — even if it sometimes meant taking more than the fair share of my blame.
Why? I’m SQUISHY, as Ox-D would say. And love is an action, one that I totally believe in. Which is why it’s so hard for me to really give my heart to people — because it stays with them.
Hope all is well with you ladies today.
Orphan,
you brought up another point–when you LOVE SOMEONE you don’t want them to be angry with you, or to hate you.
When we love someone we are concerned if we make them mad, hurt them, etc. and we SURE don’t want them to hate us.
The Ps on the other hand are kind of like that creature on a Star Treck episode that LIVED OFF THE CREW’S EMOTIONS AND ANGER. Ps are not concerned if they make us angry, or if they hurt us. We on the other hand are tying to “tix” the situaation so they won’t be angry with us. THEY don’t care if we are upset, as long as THEY GET CONTROL.
The battle is pretty one-sided with a P, they have all the weapons (we can’t hurt them and they can’t bleed emotionally) we have no weapons and all the vulnerability, because WE Do “bleed” when they stab us.
Kind of a one-sided battle isn’t it? We’re the only one who can be injured, and they have all the weapons—and we don’t even have any defenses. I think I don’t want to play that “game” any more. NC FOREVER! POWER TO US! (shaking upraised fist here!) LOL