Sociopaths have been described in many ways that, at least, from time to time, might describe some of the rest of us: As glib, manipulative, exploitative, superficial; as seeing and relating to others as objects rather than persons.
Sociopaths, in other words, don’t have a patent on these qualities. You can be a nonsociopath and be glib and superficial. You can be a nonsociopath and be a constitutional bullshitter and sometimes manipulator: Just go visit the used-car salesmen at your local dealership, and see for yourself (sure, some of them may be sociopaths, but not most).
Naturally, when you begin to combine these qualities—especially adding “exploitative” to the mix—and identify them as an individual’s default style of interaction, you’ve entered potentially sociopathic terrain.
In my experience, I’ve found other qualities—but also not in isolation—to be somewhat distinctively suggestive of sociopathy. One—the quality of emotional vacancy—really captures my attention when I observe or experience it.
I’m working clinically, at present, with two male individuals, Allen, 20, who already has a long legal rap sheet (minor criminal violations), while the other, Ted, 31, has no arrest history, but has been fired from various jobs for leaving a string of female colleagues and customers troubled by his sexually invasive behaviors.
Allen has diagnoses in the system as an antisocial personality with a probable earlier diagnosis of conduct disorder. Yet he is not, I’m quite confident, a sociopath.
Conversely, Ted has had no significant mental health diagnoses I’m aware of, yet I suspect he has a touch, if not more than a touch, of sociopathy in his personality. (I suggested this to a team of providers involved with Ted, who hadn’t considered it but were disarmed and intrigued by it.)
What is it about Ted that got me thinking along the lines of sociopathy?
Yes, he is socially facile—gregarious, glib, a schmoozer, described by others as “outgoing.” But while relevant, let’s be honest: this (alone) could describe a fourth of the population.
But what further raised my eyebrows was Ted’s reaction to his pattern of leaving women feeling disturbed by his aggression—specifically, he makes excuses, rationalizes his behaviors; consistently denies and/or minimizes his actions; and tellingly, conveys no empathy for the experience of the women.
His concern, in other words, begins and ends with how these incidents will impact his subsequent employablility; there isn’t the remotest (genuine) interest in his effect on his victims.
This is one aspect of the emotional vacancy—expressed in this instance as a lack of empathy—that I suggest can signal possible sociopathy.
Ted, incidentally, is not cruel, or driven to hurt others. He insists he doesn’t “get off” on leaving women feeling uncomfortable and threatened, and I tend to believe him.
His sociopathic quality, if I’m right, is reflected less in an intentionally hurtful agenda than in his emotional indifference to the unintentional hurt he inflicts in the self-centered pursuit of his momentary needs.
Ted is more impulsive than calculating, more thoughtless than scheming. He sees a woman undressing, for instance, in a dressingroom and he wants a view. He knows intellectually that it’s the wrong thing to do. But he wants the view.
He knows that if the woman sees him peering in on her, she will be upset. As I said, he doesn’t relish, it seems, the idea of upsetting her so much as he cares too little about her discomfort, her sense of violation, to deter him from taking what he wants—a view of her.
There is a second aspect of Ted’s emotional vacancy that I find possibly indicative of sociopathy: When I’m with him (unlike my experience with Allen) I feel that I am not really there for him. Yes, he is inquisitive, wants to know how I’m doing, what’s up with this and that? He schmoozes, as I’ve said.
But it’s a bit like the experience you might have with a politician who, trolling the crowd, looks you in the eye and asks questions of interest and shakes your hand, but all the while you feel like he’s really looking through you, or beyond you, to the next hand he’s waiting to shake, the next vote he’s canvassing. You feel that a second later he will have blotted out the memory of the interaction and, on parting, you.
I have this experience of Ted—nothing malicious-intended. He’s not taking anything tangible from me. Just that, in my interactions with him, I somehow don’t feel completely real”¦to him.
Not all sociopaths are alike, we know that. And I’m certainly not suggesting that many sociopaths, at least for a while, can’t leave you feeling just the opposite—as special, as if you’re the only person in their universe.
But there are sociopathically-oriented individuals who don’t do this well—whose emotional emptiness and soulessness somehow rub off on, as if get transferred into you, leaving you (on the receiving end of the interaction) feeling vaguely as if something’s amiss, not whole, that something was, or is, missing.
(This article is copyrighted (c) 2008 by Steve Becker, LCSW.)
Iwonder: interesting question! my ex told me his new gf was ‘just like’ him. ”she’s got style and she’s gorgeous and we think exactly alike.” my initial reaction? ah, he’s finally met his match! one can only hope!
the fantasies that run through my head about this are delicious. mutual destruction of two sociopaths!
they get what they deserve … although we sure didn’t!
TOWANDA!
I remember shortly after i married her she went out and bought this digital camera and would take photo’s of me getting out of the shower, i would ask her to please stop, that it made me feel awkward, she just kept taking pictures. She would say hurtful things to me and then tell me to kiss her. No love, no compassion, this is something i have a hard time understanding.
Iwonder/Lostingrief,
I believe that the long term OW of my P was also a P or at least had some type of personality disorder.
She was also a married woman and had been having an affair with him for 5 years and continued with it after he pounced on me. Her husband knew about it years before and had tried to stop it but she refused to and brazenly denied it, blaming her husband for all their marital problems.
She was a very aggressive, rude and ‘cold’ person and not only did she have a hand in helping him steal from me, she swindled and abused many others. When I found out about her she played the part of a fellow victim but within a few weeks I found out she was still with him in full knowledge of what he had done to me. For the few weeks I did speak to her ( she was supposed to be a friend of mine) I had some very bizarre conversations with her and it gave me the creeps. It also opened my eyes to all the deceit and lies and I realised just how dangerous these two people were.
She has now left the country having realised her cover had been blown by me telling all the sordid details to her husband. He has been very supportive of me and I know feels guilty that I was conned by the two of them because he didn’t stop their liason.
They proved beyond any doubt just how despicable they both were by viciously attacking each other to me behind the other ones back whilst at the same time coniving to steal my money. Neither of them knew the meaning of the word love, loyalty or trust. They truly deserved each other.
In psychiatry they call that type of relationship a ‘folie a deux’ which means madness in two – oh how true!!!!’
Swallow
Hi all, I suppose two sociopaths in a liaison would be continually trying to outwit and scam each other – I would think that after a time, one would think that they were being treated bad by the other as they only think of themselves anyway , so this could cause explosions in the relationship, and possibly they would go onto other victims like us generous, giving people, to start the cheating all over again. This is only an opinion based on a objective approach to what their characteristics are.
I am having a bad time on my road to recovery at the moment, although I was doing OK. Made new friends, social life etc, paying off debts he left – so why do I feel bad? I feel I am unloveable, and completely alone – why am I still so distressed by something that ended six montha ago? What am I afraid of?
I have posted on this site before in other blog subjects, being really positive , but now I just cant. The worse thing was that it seems to be a fact that he never cared for me and that hurts – does it mean I am unloveable?
Iwonder – great post – it is because sociopaths can get right into the lives of loving, giving people like us victims before it all goes wrong, either by victims realising their nature or something like a debt or desertion for someone else. This is also why it hurts so very much to get over these creeps. For me, yes I feel I am a giving sort of person, always want to help people out if I can and in a caring profession (hospital lab work) , so I am going to fall hard (I did!) when I found out what sort of person he is. Lack of empathy (and feigned empathy?) Examples:- Sobbing and sobbing about the death of one of his cats, then a week later another one died (no response at all) ; now he’s left the third cat with me without so much as a second glance or thought-: staying away from home in London (conducting his business) for weeks at a time, no contact – didnt see why I was upset: text on Xmas eve to say he was staying there over Xmas and having dinner with his friends at the pub; coming back after six weeks to give me the silent treatment.; never phoning or visiting his parents who live on the Isle of Wight (UK) although his mother is in hospital long term (I told him before I chucked him out!); not removing his car from my driveway (he has no use for it so why should he worry about the hurt and inconvenience this causes me- I am going to scrap it soon – I have given him chance to respond to a letter I sent). Iknow, I know, NO CONTACT, but how else can I tie up all the practical things he has left? Its only by letter I can bear to contact him. I need to really move on (music equipment going next on ebay!) Oh guys it really helps to know you are all there , all hurting , and so giving of support and love. I hope I can help some of you when I feel more positive – its really helped though guys, thanks!
Hey Mysticmud: when I found out about the OW, I told the idiot to get his stuff. He took a lot but left crap behind. I took a lot of the things from the garage like a george foreman grill, brand new ramps for the car, his bicycle & other stuff on the curb with a sign “FREE.” I looked out the window as a guy with a truck pulled up and loaded everything on. HA! I also chucked his favorite Steelers jersey. He still has 3 TV’s in the garage and has promised (via text) for 4 months he will pick them up “this week.” Can you believe he asked me to buy him another Steelers jersey? After I paid for the car loan, maintenance, tickets, $800 for a dent in the car he drove for 16 months (I got that back.) I told him we are even. Now I just need him to sign the deed to my condo back over to my name because he conned me into putting his name on it.
Swallow: after reading your post about the 2 trying to take your money, I am worried. What if the OW and my x-soc are planning to try to make out with getting money out of me to sign the condo back over?? That will be my worst nightmare. Something is lurking in the back of my mind. When he moved in my place March 07 he borrowed a friend’s veh to move his stuff. I think it may have been the OW’s! What if she was in the picture all along? He told me to put his name on the deed to prove it was a committed relationship with us. I told him ok because he said we were getting married. He knows that. I said as long as we are getting married, ok. But, prove to me you are serious about marriage and file the annulment from your x-wife (yes. he was separated when we met…so I think.) He never filed the annulment. We went to 3 lawyers. I gave him $1500 to file. He spent the money on who knows what.
Hey Swallow- Interesting that you mentioned “foile a deux”. I wondered about that in the experience I had with my P. To this day I’m not entirely sure how, or even if it really happened, but it seemed as if this guy was actually in my head, somehow planting false memories that caused me to believe I had done the worst things to close friends of mine. I experienced delusions of grandeur for the first time in my life as well, and it really felt like the two of us had some weird connection. (even though I do NOT in any way have characteristics of S/P behavior in my personality and certainly was NOT helping him con anyone… ) I had no history of any sort of mental problem but ended up in the hospital with schizophrenic symptoms. Haven’t had any problems for the past year though! (since NC) How does that HAPPEN just through contact with another person? Its totally crazy!
Iwonder- hope all goes well with getting the condo back in your name, wow that would be my worst nightmare. I really feel for you.
Mysticmud- I agree with you about the idea of two S/P’s together. When it’s always a game, someone has to win. I used to agonize over what kind of person would be the “perfect match” for my P (and agonize over why I couldn’t be…) but I think I came to the same conclusion as you, there is basically NO hope for a S/P to have a healthy relationship unless they could somehow change their personality. However don’t you think they might enjoy the company of another S/P because they would be both more impulsive and less caring about the kinds of things responsible people care about? I like to think that if one was conned by another, it might SORT OF make them understand how it feels to be us… but I doubt it.
Dear Mysticmud,
Yea, there is a lot of stuff like that that you have to have contact with them, at least by letter to get settled. I have to have contact with my mom for business, but I keep it by phone, short, or e mail, and NO face to face.
This is a good time for you to set some BOUNARIES for him too. Put your Big girl panties on and say something along the line of “please come get your car between 8 and 12 on Saturday or I will consider that you have no desire for it, and will call the city to tow it off as an abandoned vehicle in my dirve.”
He of course will be very upset with you….oh, wellllllll.
As for the things you bought him like the music equipment, e bay is great! Anything not worth selling or donating, trash it.
Hang on, too, things WILL get better! (((hugs)))) Thanks for updating us on how you are doing.
It is extremely difficult to write in these posts just how twisted my experience was but I think it’s important to share as much of it as I can as it is a good example of how P’s operate and how they can influence others or hook onto another disordered person. That other person then becomes their enabler and together they can wreak so much damage because it gives them a cover.
My P worked for the OW and I knew both of them for 10 years (their affair was going on for at least 5 of those years). She owned a riding school where I used to ride and eventually kept my own horse. I considered her a friend only in the sense that I knew her for a long time and she was quite pleasant when in a good mood. Most of the time though she was cold, sarcastic and verbally abusive to most of her clients. Strangely, she never attacked me. I saw him as a quiet, pleasant person who seemed very helpful to the riders but other than that I never took much notice of him. I never saw anything between them that made me suspicious but I always wondered why many other people seemed to dislike them intensely. No-one ever said why ( what a pity). She always told he riders what a decent, honest person he was and that he deserved a chance in life.
After I found out about the OW, I realised what he was and walked away but for a few weeks kept contact with her because I believed she was also a ‘victim’. We compared notes and she revealed how much she already knew about him. She wasn’t an innocent party at all but despite all his stealing, lying, drug dealing she made it clear she still ‘loved’ him but wanted to get away from it all. Two weeks later I found out she was still with him and attacking me.
Some of the things she revealed to me were very telling about how sick she was and so I then started NC with her too.
Here some examples of why I see her as very disorderd:
“Just think, he could be after our daughters next” Said in a calm manner as if there was nothing wrong with that.
” I’ll have to be careful who I put in charge when I’m away” meaning she knew he would target them. What she actually told the girl who took over was ” you can trust him and I hope you have as good a relationship with him as I’ve had”. In other words setting her up for the con.
To me and said seriously ” All I can suggest is that we share him, you can see him on Tues, Thurs and Sat”. Meaning, I have every intention of keeping him and the money he’s taken from you.
She asked my HUSBAND (we were back together by then and he was fully aware of the whole situation) to do an AIDS test for her as she thought the P was gay – at the same time refusing to return money she had received from him that she knew was mine!!!!
It was after this that I did for a time wonder if I was totally insane. It took a long time to grasp how sick and twisted it all was. Luckily, I started to read up on P’s/personality disorders and enforced NC with both of them. If I hadn’t done that I think between them they would have sent me over the edge.Her betrayal has always seemd worse for some reason, it cut me to the core.
Iwonder
Please take my advice and protect your money and assets right now!!!! Others involved with a P may be victims OR they may be just as sick (for whatever reason)and can be just as dangerous.
Oneblogger
Yes, how can one person have this affect? I’m not exactly sure of how they do it but they can. Have you ever watched the entertainer Derren Brown ( from the UK)? he can make total strangers do anything simply by suggestion and manipulation. In one programme he managed to get 3 separate people to try and rob a security van. When he stopped them, they were in a total state of shock of what they had done, even though they they knew exactly what they were doing and had not been hypnotised in any way. Scary!!! I would love to ask him about it as I think he could answer our questions.
Swallow
hey everyone, i hope everyone is doing fine. i have’nt posted anything in awhile. i read these post as much as i can. I’m so busy working and school that i dont have as much free time before. things with me having been going well. things have been pretty simple just the way i like them.
i
i really just want others peoples thoughts on what i’m about to write, bc everyone here only understands what im feeling. today was sorta of emotional for me. here i thought i was doing ok then boom, i realize that im not. the scars that are left from the bad man, are deeper then i thought. i really do have trust issues. i was hanging with a friend today and he did something that triggered something in me. my friend was doing something the x did. i just started crying and i wanted to run away so fast. i just assumed to not trust my friend. my friend has never giving me any reason to never trust them. i sit here and feel like wow im never goin to trust anyone again.
My friend also said something about my body, not in a mean way, was sort of flirting with me and i flipped out. my x picked on my body all the time. its like that pain came back today, the same pain i felt when the x would make a mean comment about my body. my body was never good enough. i didt wear the right clothes that day, i need to drop a few pounds, i didt wear enough makeup that day. there was always something!! i just started crying. the pain hurts. i never want to be with someone like that again. i realized that im so far from wanted to be close with someone.
i still cant wrap my brain how someone just cant love you. how they just pretend you never where there or had something with you. they just forget about you. how they have no emotions? how they talk about you behind your back bc they want to look like the good guy. how do they just not care about anyone, its so unbelieveable to me. i cry today bc i cared and loved someone who doest give a damn. they just throw you away and keep on living like nothing ever happened. how the whole relationship was unnormal, how the breakup was unnormal. just left wondering how people can be so cold. one day your together and living your lives thinking your in love and have this bond with someone. next day your life is completly washed away. i wish i never met him!!!!!