By | September 9, 2008 255 Comments

Forgiving Yourself for Being Human

By Ox Drover

In my journey toward healing from life’s pains, and from the PTSD and the pains caused by the trauma from the psychopaths, I think one of the hardest things has been to forgive myself.

I was raised in an abusive Christian atmosphere with a terrible, impossible definition of “forgiving others,” no matter what they did, no matter if they weren’t sorry, or how likely they were to repeat the abuse to me. I was programmed to try to meet my obligation to “forgive” when there was NO WAY I was going to trust them again. How could I?

While this previous “definition” of forgiveness of others who are unrepentant has changed post-trauma to a definition of getting the bitterness out of my own heart for what they did, but it does NOT INCLUDE restoration of TRUST or “pretending it didn’t happen.”

That done, I recently had an “ah ha” experience about “FORGIVING MYSELF” for the things I have done to others that were less than stellar acts. Acts that were down right nasty, vengeful, spiteful, etc.

Some of you may have read my little “parable” about how none of us would hold a grudge or get mad at our little pet dog that was injured and lying on the street with a broken leg, if we were to rush to our puppy’s aid, and in its blinding pain and fear it lashed out at us when we tried to pick it up and it bit us. That would be a totally different reaction on our parts from the way we would react to a dog that bit us every time we went to pet it or feed it, would attack us in our sleep or when our back was turned. Few of us would keep the “psychopathic dog” very long, but we would not at all be angry with our pet that bit us in his fear and pain. We would be understanding and compassionate, though the wound was deep and hurt like heck!

The old saying “there are two sides to every story” is one we have all heard, and many times that is true. There are in the above story two VIEWS—the one of the owner, and the one of the dog.

Many years ago I fell on some brick steps and hit my shin so hard that a huge bruise immediately rose up on my shin the size of half a large grapefruit. The injury was so unexpected, and so sudden, and so painful, that when my beloved husband reached out to extend me a hand to help me up, I immediately struck out verbally and actually SNARLED at him, “DON’T TOUCH ME!”

Another time, a couple of nights after my husband’s tragic and sudden death, a beloved friend of our family was there to console us, she had driven over seven hours to be there. She was very anxious and just kept chattering and chattering. In my pain, the sound of her voice was agony, and I asked her to please be quiet and go to sleep, which then upset her more and made her more anxious and she chattered louder and longer. I finally got up in her face and seething in rage, looked at her and told her to “Shut your lips, if another word or sound comes out of them I will hit you.” Right at that moment in my horrible pain I could have done so. I could actually have hit someone I dearly loved who is in no way anything but loving to me.

Looking back over these instances, I realized in my “ah ha” moment, that there are various things like this that I have done in my life that I am sure not proud of. In pain at various times I have struck out at the very people I loved who were there for me. I have also struck out at the psychopaths many times. I have said things and done things that I am sure not proud of. I have hurt people who loved me and were only trying to comfort me in my pain.

I also realized in my “ah ha” moment that I have not forgiven myself for these things. They still make me feel bad about myself, guilty, shamed, and imperfect.

How do I forgive myself for these things? Restore my own self esteem and trust in myself? I realize that I am human, and looking at the “parable” of the injured dog from the dog’s view point, I realize that those that love me realize, just like the little dog’s owner, that I was striking out in intense pain, and that those people still love me, and forgive me. That I also should realize that I have forgiven them when in their own pain they might have hurt me, so why am I holding myself to a higher standard than I hold others to? Why am I not allowing myself the same forgiveness that I extend to others, even the psychopaths?

I realized that I need to get the bitterness against MYSELF out of my own heart for being human. I acknowledge the wrongful acts I did in striking out at others, even the psychopaths, I feel great remorse for these acts, I have “repented” (made a promise to myself and others that I will not repeat this type of behavior), I have apologized, made restitution if I could, and in short, done everything I can to “make up for” these acts. The people I wronged (except for the psychopaths) have all forgiven me, and restored me to a trusting position in their lives, so I should also forgive myself and trust myself. Being in pain is no “excuse” for biting a lovingly extended hand, but it is definitely understandable.

My forgiving others, getting the bitterness out of my heart so that it does not hurt me, is important, I think, but forgiving myself, I think is just as important. My unkind acts or verbal assaults toward the psychopath did not “ruin the relationship.” If I had been perfect it would not have improved the one-sided relationship of all-taking on their part and all-giving on mine. My failure to please them was not my “fault” in any way. No one could have pleased them. My failure to see that and to cut the relationship sooner, to set boundaries and enforce them, rather than trying to placate them by allowing their abuse was not “right,” it wasn’t a good decision, but it is understandable considering the pain that I was in. It is now time to forgive myself for being human, for being fallible and making mistakes, and for even doing things I knew were wrong.

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That is something I struggle with. I also was raised to forgive and forget horrible behavior….especially from the s and n’s in my family. Im just beginning to realize that forgiving does not mean going back for more abuse. My ex s boyfriend thinks Im just horrible cause I finally stood up to him. He “doesnt know what he did” even though I turned myself inside out to explain over and over again. Honestly … i miss him…. i want to forgive him….but I know that if i do I will feel bad and the no contact rule will get broken and i will go through all the hell again. I pray alot that God just helps me through the day….one step at a time….and maybe in the future, when I feel safe and strong enough in who I am.. I can extend true forgiveness. Until then he remains unforgiven which does mak me feel guilty. Thank you so musc for this site it is saving my life. Love to all of us.

Ox Drover

Dear Selena,

Just because you “forgive” someone (get the bitterness out of your heart toward them) does NOT mean you EVER HAVE TO TRUST THEM. To me, Forgiveness does NOT mean “forgive AND forget”—I believe what the Bible says, that we have to “forgive” others, but I don’t see a single place in the Bible that says AND FORGET. That was where I got stuck on forgiveness….because the “definition” I was given was WRONG AND IMPOSSIBLE. I forgive, but do NOT forget.

It took me a LONG time to work around to my “new” definition of “forgiveness,” which means to me “get the bitterness out of my heart” The “forgive and forget” definition is IMPOSSIBLE, and the “forget” part isn’t required. I found nothing in the Bible that says that because we have forgiven someone we need to go back and allow more abuse. In fact, I find many passages that direct us to NOT go back to a person who is “unrepentant” and not sorry for what they have done. In one spot St. Paul actually says “don’t even eat with them.” If that is not NC then I am not sure what is!

It apparently isn’t as common now as it used to be but historically, even churches would “excommunicate” or “shun” people who were publicly unrepentant. Some sects would actually “shun” a person by pretending they didn’t even exist, wouldn’t speak to them etc.

If you look at the story of Joseph in the Bible where he was sold into slavery by his own brothers, even when he had risen to the top and was second in command of Egypt, when those men who were his brothers showed up to buy food, he TESTED their repentance before he even revealed his relationship to them, to see for himself what kind of men they had become. He had forgiven them, but he still didn’t TRUST them until he had PROVEN that they had actually CHANGED.

Forgiveness to me is about US, not them. Forgiving OURSELVES is about US as well. I think I OWE myself as much forgiveness as I owe it to forgive them. But trust them again, NEVER. But I have to LIVE WITH MYSELF, so I guess I better learn to TRUST ME as well, and to quit being so “hard on” myself for the things I have done that I am not proud of. I’m human too. I deserve my own forgiveness, because I have repented and changed my ways. I can trust myself again to be the person I KNOW I AM.

Forvive yourself for being human …..human I am ….I opened my heart my home and allowed this man to come between me and my children …you know when I think back today about what I i did …I thought I was a good judge of character , but hes good he plays a good game ,I know I’m human its been 10 months NC and I still cry but I would rather be where I am today then to go back to that ,NEVER.

I want to stop thinking about him about how I was a victim I so desperatly so want to move from this, I was lucky he never took money from me , just lies and cheating it should be easy…..hes moved on to a new victim I feel for her ….but I have to take care of me …….I’d rather be human


I too was taught to forgive others. To turn the other cheek. To error is human and to forgive divine is what I was taught. As a child I never knew how I could even forgive my parents, not until I grew up did I understand how easy it is for all of us to make mistakes. So for me forgiveness become easier as I reach my manhood. But then I learned something else on my journal to my personal life from child to man. That when I do forgive who benefits from this forgiveness? And also when I do forgive are all past wrongs wipe clean due to my forgiveness? So for the first question my answer was that all should benefit from my forgiveness but this is sometimes not really what happens. By forgiving that person I benefit because I allow my anger and shame to be resolved but if the one that was forgiven learn nothing from this then they will not benefit at all. The second answer to my second question was even harder to understand and learn. That my forgiveness doesn’t wipe away all wrongs. Not for me nor them. Only my lord and Father can do that. No my forgiveness allow only a second chance for both those who was wronged and those who were forgiven. I must forgive those that wrong me, but I must also forgive myself for allowing them to do that which I knew was wrong. Only then will I benefit from this forgiveness. As for them well that is something they will learn and if not then they will never benefit from anyone’s forgiveness. As for the second chance we all get from a forgiveness, if one learns again and then not repeat that which is wrong. Then we become renewed and wiser. But if one again allow this second chance to go by and not learn then they again will not benefit from this second chance given to them by forgiveness…


I always have had a hard time with this, always been hard on myself, and a perfectionist. BUT.. I know that my first husband and also my ex-bf used this to their own advantage, by pushing me until I got upset, then using that as an excuse for pulling away from me or running off to take care of some of their secret “business”. I always used to berate myself for these failures, and vow to try harder, but I’ve learned, this is just an excuse for them, I’m a pretty damn nice person most of the time, very loyal, very giving, and if they can’t deal with me being human.. oh well..

If I had been more perfect, they would have just pushed harder or used some other excuse.


This is a tough one! I think I have been dealing with a tremendous amount of humiliation of, how did i not see this coming, why didnt i check further into my gut feelings, why did I love a lieing cheating theif ???
My sister had to bring up why did you stay with him, I want to know why, we told you, we warned you, dont you watch Opra and Dr Phil…..holly molly are you kidding me….
that was painful as if the court date that I had to go on the day before wasnt enough BS to go through I got hit in the head with a sledge hammer with that one, lets put the knife in a turn it some more why dont you. Then i look back and doubt myself, get angry at myself and almost hate myself….for being with someone that was such a creep .. I didnt see it where was I????
I agree I have to forgive myself on my goodness how do I do that. This man affected so many lives and I cant live with the shame of being with someone like that.

These others the ppl that arent with the S’ N’s or P’s can not or will not understand the type of brainwashing that goes on that is the only answer I have PLUS I didnt think there were humans out there that lie soooo well.

Now that I have read you story I have more to think about thank you …..Ox Drover


You’re right, other people who have not been close to a P do not understand the mind games but here we all do. All of us have been conned in some way or another and none of us should feel guilty for being their targets. I believe they could succeed with most people given the right circumstances and information.
In most societies we are programmed to forgive and give the benefit of the doubt – a principal that plays beautifully into the game of a deceiver. Add to that well meaning ‘advice’ from others who don’t really understand the disorder and it is not surprising that many of us take so long to heal.
We need to remind ourselves of what actually happened to us and resist second guessing. If you truly comprehend what these disordered people can do then you can forgive yourself and lay the blame firmly at the door of the guilty one – the P.
Forgivness in the sense of forgiving them is a difficult one for me as there will never be any acknowledgement of wrong doing. Instead I simply try to accept what has been done and know that it was not actually personal. I was just a number in a long line of numbers.


I have forgiven him but not myself. It’s been 6 months since I last talked to my S and there are some days where I keep asking myself why I let him take control of everything in my life, from my heart to my wallet to my bank account. Forgiving myself is easier said than done but I had to forgive him because I know he’s sick and he somehow can’t help doing what he does “for a living” and also because the burden was too heavy to carry. That being said, I don’t know how I would react if I were to be alone in the same room with him…would I let him go or would I want to rip his heart out like he did mine?


I really admire your honesty. It’s a service to women. I too had many episodes of poor behavior which caused me much shame. Shame can cause us to blame others or blame our sleves ..neither being useful in a world so chaotic….shame is only useful when you are willing to make that change. And you only have to be willing to make the start of the journey. I had to change — I didn’t want to get another p in my life and I didn’t want to become a psychopath. When slaying the beast make sure you don’t become the beast. I cannot change anyone only myelf. I used to have a mantra. Your actions will not change me. They will not make me a whore, or a psycho. I am a woman of principles today. I answer to God. No one else. In forgiving myself I can learn to forgive. If I can make mistakes so can you. We are only the children of God trying to make our way in this world.


lykastia: i also forgave my ex, for the most part. he had a hard life, he lost both parents, he’s sick, oh, poor thing! but i too have yet to forgive myself. i LET him do what he did. i GAVE him the money he asked for … and boy, did he ask! i was unemployed and had to declare bankruptcy, but i felt bad not helping HIM out!!! can you believe that? what kind of jackass am i anyway? also, if i refused to give him money when he asked, he simply said, “no problem, i know where i can get it!” i knew he meant he would go to another female and ‘work’ for it … so i always relented. and he was doing that all along anyway. sigh.
my fear is that if i am ever again alone with him in a room would i beg him to come back? … beg him to have sex with me one more time? … or want to rip his heart out … just like you feel?
i get exhausted just thinking about it all.
some days good; some not so good.

Ox Drover

It’s funny (odd) that just in writing that article to share with you guys actually MADE ME forgive myself, and get the bitterness out of my heart. I don’t know if it was the composing of the article, the seeing my feelings in words, or just what it was, but it has been like a HEAVY WEIGHT has been lifted off my heart.

My family of origin (FOO) never “forgave and forgot” anyting I ever did, but they always demanded that I “forgive and FORGET” anything they did, even if they continued to do it repeatedly and never were the least but sorry for doing it. This DOUBLE STANDARD in “forgiveness” left me being the “bad guy,” not some how “perfect enough” to be “worthy” of forgiveness, much less “forgetting.” Some how me lying to my mother when I was 15 (45 years ago!) makes it less of a crime to her for lying to me NOW, because I lied 45 years ago! Talk about holding a grudge! LOL

I still kept heavy on my heart the things I had done that were “less than perfect” and continued to feel the guilt and shame at having reacted like I did in times of pain. Heck, I was HUMAN! (less than perfect) LOL But I realize that I should not hold myself “less” than others, and some how “not worthy of forgiveness”—-I AM human, and humans make mistakes, and humans do things that they later regret, or see were wrong to do, but I DO regret these things, I have done all I can do to “make up for” any hurts I caused others intentionally or unintentionally, and I have asked for forgiveness of those people, I have asked forgiveness of God. So why should I continue to “beat myself over the head” with my own iron skillet? I’ve punished myself enough for 10 life times for being “imperfect” and “human.” I didn’t deserve what the Ps did to me, and I don’t deserve any more of my own punishment either. I need to stop beating myself up. I think I am on the way to loving myself, and forgiving myself.


You are such a good writer, it is such a joy and learning experience to read your posts. I too have to forgive myself for bringing a baby into the world who will not have a father. For being so stupid to believe the illusion that I was being fed. I also have to forgive myself for wishing a horrible life on the other women. I just got word that she is now pregnant. I have to not only forgive, but have a sense of humor for the sociopathic joke that I have fallen into. I really hope the other baby is ok. Because he is with the OW, and that baby will be with him-even after she is discarded. The OW doesn’t get it, and she won’t do the steps necissary to protect their baby. I really have to forgive myself for the babies sake, and to at least protect my baby, so that the baby doesn’t ever feel bad or shameful for his fathers actions.


Hello everyone,

I am new to this site and learning a lot. I never knew what a P was until Lovefraud. I knew about the Ps that I would watch on TV, like Scott Petersen. However, I didn’t know that the P could also be non-violent. My ex-P never laid a hand on me – just ripped my heart out, asked me for money to open up a business (that never happened) and then lies, lies, lies. It’s been only 3 weeks since I last spoke to my ex-P, so it is still very raw.

I told my ex-P that I never wanted to talk to him again. I’m sure he is already on to his next targets, which makes me sad (for them). I am definitely going to follow the NC rule. After reading a lot of the stories on this blog and on MSN-P support group blog, I now know that I, too, was with a P.

I don’t even know where he is right now. All I know is that he is supposed to be in Europe and I was supposed to join him 2 weeks later. Yeah right! I found out from other people that he told them that he was going to be in Korea, New Zealand, France, China, etc.

I found out later that not only was he lying to me but to other people as well – people like ME (easy targets). I took the “target survey” and scored a 32 (35 being the highest). I’m usually pleased when I score high on games/tests but this was a score I was not proud of.

I do feel a lot of SHAME but I try to tell myself that the only crime I committed here was loving, caring, supporting, understanding and trusting someone, whom I realize now wasn’t the man I thought he was. I now know that he is mentally ill.

Other women in his life tried to warn me but I didn’t listen. They would tell me that he was a liar and a cheater but then in the same breath, they wanted him back and professed their love to him. I didn’t get it! Why would you want to be with a man like that?! So I just assumed they were lying.

I had found out that he had borrowed money from other people as well (male/female, varying ages, varying ethnicities) to open up various businesses that didn’t happen, I was shocked. He was supposed to meet with all of them before he left to pay them back. When I told them he had left for Europe, they were shocked. We realized we had been conned! Then they told me all these things that the P had said to them – all lies. The P told them that we had broken up 4 mos. ago when we were very much together until the morning he left for Europe.

The one thing that he told one of his victims really hurt me to the core. The P said that he was kind of glad that I didn’t have the baby. I had a miscarriage 8 mos. ago. Now I’m realizing that it was a blessing in disguise. God was watching over me then and He is definitely watching over me now.

I sleep through the night without sleeping pills now but I still wake up with that empty and lonely feeling inside. I’m trying to be strong though. I definitely have my good days and my bad days. I feel like I’m riding an emotional rollercoaster that doesn’t seem to stop. It will be fast at times then seem to slow down and then speed up again.

I wish there was a “magic drug” that would take all the hurt/pain/memories away. I know in time they will. This, too, shall pass.


lostingrief, I did the same thing you did: I LET him do all these things to me. I LET him take my money, I GAVE it to him. He kept telling me he would repay me back and also double the amount as a bonus for all the trouble I went through. At times, I was so sure he would, then I would turn around and tell myself that all was lost, I would never get that money back. And I didn’t, of course.

However, if I ever found myself alone in a room with him, I know I wouldn’t let him touch me. I forgave him but I am disgusted by him. I would not fall into his trap again and I don’t even know if I’d let him speak one word to me without wanting to gag him. He’s a sorry excuse for a human being.

heartoheart, welcome to the site, it’s definitely a good place to be. Unfortunately there is no magic drug except time. The pain just dulls away after a while. But it’s still there, I think I’ll never get rid of the pain, personally. And I feel pain for all the other persons he’s going to hurt in the future. I wish I could warn them.


heartoheart says:,lostingrief says:
Girls I tell you this is so scarey that your stories are so close to mine…i thought when I found out about my P there couldnt been anymore inhuman humans out there and then I found this site. Its hard to hear your pain but I know it all to well, i never knew it would take this long or be this hard to deal with regection, betrayel, lies, BS and living with the fact your husband was with another women for 3 years when he was suppossidly traveling….3 years sick sick sick. I am a good christian women I get up every morning and try to do the next right thing and I was with a thief, creep, adulterer, pathological lier. I knew he was different and he had a very rough childhood and had a tough time as a navy seal being left for dead so my heart went out to him….ummmm nothing was the truth. I alos want the “magic drug” can you tell me where to find it?
You are an excellent writer haver you written your story in book form?


I am not worthy of forgiveness yet. I am still speaking with my S. I am still sucked into the “I am only happy if we are speaking” and so forth. Do I know if he is still talking to the other TWO girls as well…who knows. He claims he is not. But everytime he whispers sweet nothings to me I just cant seem to shake the fact that he is whispering those same sweet nothings to them as well. So why cant I just stop. Why do I stay and fall back into everytime. Why do I feel quilty as if I am doing something wrong if I walk away for good..even tho he is promises me that there is only me..asking me why am I not being fair in giving us another chance. BUT cant stand when I refer to the past year of his cheating. Why can I not trust him but not leave him either. OH my gosh that sounds soooooo stupid. He makes me feel as if I am doing the betraying by walking away bc of his words and bc he has helped me out in certain situations… money…!! UGH what am I to do with this.


Dear findingpeace: You’re hooked because you THINK he’s made up of the same fine qualities as yourself. He’s mirroring you … when he leaves you … then it will be over. Sorry to tell you the truth … it’s inevitable. Right now you’re in pain because you haven’t been hit by ALL the hard facts yet. You’re still in the stage of bits and pieces of something is wrong here … When you are ready to start healing … you will heal. It’s slow and painful, so prepare yourself for this truth about the pain. The pain will allow you to grow better than you were prior to the pain. Believe that fact. When you grow from this pain … your spirit will take on a better and more beautiful understanding of life. There is healing from all of this … so believe that fact … and know that all of us on this blog will help you as you heal.



Dear areyoukiddingme: There is a light at the end of the tunnel. Read this blog and absorb the information provided. The knowledge listed here will help your healing process. Read previous blogs by scrowling upward from your own postings. Then there is an excellent site about Giver’s and Takers … double click on the following

Any time you want to write any of the bloggers or the professionals on this site … feel free. It’s all an individual healing process for each and every one of us. There is no quick fixes … but that is true about most everything in life … the more you do for yourself, the more you’ll heal yourself.

Right now, pamper yourself. Be good to yourself. Understand that you will waffle back and forth as you heal. Know that this is normal to do so. Whatever propels you forward or backward … it’s ALL OK and natural to do so.



Dear findingpeace,

I know what you are going through. I was in your same shoes not too long ago. It has only been 3 weeks since I last spoke to my ex-P and I do NOT have any desire to speak or to see him. I don’t even know where he is nor do I care.

After educating myself about “love/romantic fraud”, “sociopaths/pychopaths” and “anti-social disorder”, I have a better understanding of who he REALLY was. This really helped me, along with this site. You need to be strong and follow the “No Contact” rule. He will come at you full force with his charm, sweet talk and guilt, especially if he knows he is on the brink of losing you. THEY ARE NOT GOING TO CHANGE! THEY CAN’T! THIS IS WHO THEY ARE!

My ex-P ruined a lot of people’s lives and yours will, too. You have to get out while you can and salvage what you have left. I know this is hard to hear right now…but it’s the TRUTH. And sometimes the TRUTH hurts but the TRUTH WILL SET YOU FREE!

I will be praying for you and for all the other victims (present and future). My heartfelt thoughts are with all of you. God bless.


It is hard to forgive yourself when you have people close to you who do not forgive YOU. My ex harmed my children. He committed incest. He molested. He conned them for their money. Not all of my children forgive me for bringing him into the family.

I try to do all I can to help my children heal. I hope someday they will forgive, but even if they don’t, I know I will keep going. I have one child who says that I should feel suicidal for the rest of my life because of the harm done to my children. But she also resents me for “thinking only of myself” whenever I do get depressed. It truly is a no-win situation.

What I CAN do today is to avoid anyone (besides my children) who blames me for my own victimization and pain–the “friends” who say things like “How could you be so gullible?”, the relatives who feign concern but really are smugly satisfied that I was laid so low, the acquaintances who exclaim to me their surprise that I haven’t left town “because of the embarrassment.” I avoid people I know will bring me pain.

Some days are better than others.


Dearest Tood: Please do not blame yourself for what they did or are all about.

I’m telling you the same thing as I do other LF bloggers … read as much on this site about what they are all about … learning the truth of what, how, when, why … they are the way they are is half the battle to start healing yourself and your children/family and friends.

Check out this site of what the church leaders know about them.

“Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves; so be shrewd as serpents and innocent as doves”.

You will get to understand the difference between us (givers) and them (takers).

Pamper yourself, love your children, family and friends … life will be beautiful again. I promise.

Peace to your heart and soul.

Ox Drover

Dear Tood,

My mother “blames me” for everything that happened to our family as well—but you know what, I a prepared to go NC with ANYONE***-A*N*Y*O*N*E** who blames me, and tries to make me feel bad about myself. It doesn’t matter to me if they gave birth to me, or I gave birth to them, if someone is not KIND, CARING, AND LOVING in their behavior and words to me, excuse me, F’EM! I am so sorry that your kids (or some of them) blame you, and are so unforgiving of you. It WAS NOT, IS NOT, your “fault” whatever your P did to anyone. There is no way you could have known. That is like my kid saying to me because he broke his foot, that it is my fault because I gave birth to him. DUH!

Even if THEY never “forgive” you, that does NOT stop you from forgiving yourself. If the people I have wronged in my life do not forgive me, I can’t do anything about that, (not that I think you did anything wrong in this instance) but let’s say you punched one of them in the nose, and then you were sorry and you repented and apologized sincerely, if they do not forgive you, you still need to forgive yourself for doing it. You are human, humans make mistakes, humans do things that are wrong, but if you have done all you can to apologize for any wrongs you have committed, even if THEY do not forgive you, you still deserve YOUR OWN FORGIVENESS.

My dear I hear your pain, and my heart bleeds for your pain. I can only imagine how it must have hurt for your child to say such a thing to you. I have “lost” my own beloved son, he is a P, and he has said some horrible things to me that cut to the quick, deeper than the quick, right to my heart. I think to have a child that says things like that hurts worse than from anyone else, just because we have loved them since before they were born.

But regardless of whether or not they ever for give you, you must forgive yourself my dear. That kind of a burden is too much for any of us to bear. That burden was the heaviest I have borne and frankly since I HAVE forgiven myself, I feel a great heavy weight, a tremendous burden lifted off my back.

I’m not perfect by a long shot, but forgiving myself is loving myself, and I deserve to love myself, I deserve a lot of things, but most of all I deserve to care about myself. ((((Tood)))

Bird: I really feel awful about you feeling the need to ask for forgiveness for bringing a child in the world whose father won’t be around. But you have nothing ask for forgiveness for that one. It’s a blessing. Better a child grow up knowing how to love than to be exposed to sociopathic behaviour from the dad and think it to be normal. My ex has 7 kids out there with different women and he abandoned all the moms and the kids. .except the last 2 he has joint custody and he is screwing them up. The boy is 12 and lived with us the last school year. My Socipathic ex would take the kid to the other woman’s home 2 nights a week and he and the Soc would sleep over there. The other nights the Soc slept in my bed. He taught the kid how to lie about where they’d been. The kid was soon manipulating me and lying to me too. All the other 5 kids grew up good. Those moms found good men and the kids knew them as their real dad. I hear through the x wife who knows about the 5. The 5 kids feel abandoned and hate their biological father for abandoning them. However, if they ever got to know him, they wouldn’t like him anyway. That’s a tough one. What do you say to your child when he/she is old enough to ask about the biological father? Do you explain he has a mental condition? What if he asks one day to meet him? Wow Bird. I don’t know what I would do. But about forgiveness. I believe the Bible asks us to forgive because it’s the only way we can obtain peace in our own hearts. Holding hate and bitterness in our hearts makes us ill. I struggle with this everyday. I have never felt so angry for allowing myself to be used. To allow someone to bleed me dry financially and emotionally. I have fantasies about how the OW is going to get hers. I have to somehow let this go. I keep repeating in my mind that the relationship was simply a bad day. A very long bad day. Tomorrow (the rest of my life) will be a good day. It’s been 4 months and I have to keep repeating this.

Ox Drover

Dear Bird,

Baby Birdie may not have a father “yet”–but Birdie has a WONDERFUL mother, and right now that is all the Birdie needs! I have no doubt that you will someday find a wonderful man to be our Birdie’s father—that is the best thing my mother did for me was to find and marry a wonderful man who was a great mentor and example for me. I never ever doubted his love.

When the time comes that it is appropriate to tell Birdie about the P, I am sure that you will find a way to educate Birdie about such things. I only wish that my family had known what a psychopath was and educated me to what my P-bio father was. How dangerous they are. You will be able to keep Birdie safe, and to let Birdie know about Ps at the appropriate time, in the appropriate way. Of that I have NO DOUBT!

BTW, give the little bugger a pinch on the cheek and a big squeeze from Auntie Oxy!!! ((((hugs))))


It is strange, after this encounter with my S, it is like everything in my mind has to be sorted out and resorted sometimes. The idea of forgiveness has to be reexamined too. All this extra work to get back to how my mind used to function on a regular day. But it can not be the same… my thinking has been changed in some very noticeable ways, my mind has been affected, my heart affected even deeper.

Here’s an example… I am attending a 12-step group for love addicts figuring I fit into this and would like to be more aware of my patterns and attractions to unhealthy choices. Tonight was a discussion about trying to make amends with others you have hurt. I was really confused … I mean, it has been most of my past relationships, (my addictive pattern I have discovered) especially this last devastating one with the S that have hurt ME. So I sat and listened to others and didn’t have anything really to share. I sat feeling kind of nervous too, but then relaxed thinking we all are simply trying to heal hearts here.) I figure the amends I am making are with myself now, and with God. Oxdrover is really on track I feel since forgiving ourselves makes most sense to me. This is where healing starts. In our own hearts first. There is no more room for perfectionism, no more room for romantic fantasy. There is only room for a direct, heart-to heart conversation with God. He listens, He Knows, He forgives all. But we have to connect with Him first to realize this. That is where I am with this. I sometimes think my meetings are not the right place for me. This site is. Church is. Prayer is also the right place to be. But I go to the meetings anyway now in addition to all of the above. I feel it is a way of staying conscious about my choices now. I really want to keep myself safe.



Dear Tood: True story. My best friend’s 1st marriage was to an anti-social personality. She had 2 daughter’s from this marriage. A couple of years after the girls were born … well, she just had to get out. This was in the early 60s. She was a stay at home mom … went to court … 1st hearing they told her that because she had no means to support the 2 girls, they were going to give the children to the father. She went out, got a job as a secretary … next hearing … she provided the courts her salary record etc. Award was still given to the father … she argued “but you don’t understand, he’s a monster” yaddaa, yaddaa, yowe … we all know how this went … the courts, the city, family and friends all trashed her … believed her EX over her … something must be wrong with you if the father got custody … Back in the 60s, if you didn’t know anyone going through this zoorama … you had no clue. Years later, she remarried and had 3 more children (all boys). To this day, she has an excellent relationship with her sons … and the 2 daughters refuse to talk with her. My friend has made numerous attempt in the last 20 years to talk with, write, meet with these 2 girls. The youngest daughter wants to meet her bio-mother, but the oldest daughter prevents this reunion from ever happening. Both daughters are married with their own families … they’re probably all in their early 40s. Forty years of mindwashing by the psycho father of their’s and most likely they will never find it in their hearts to meet their mom. The oldest daughter is so hurt and believes all the lies fed to her by her dad about her mom. The 2nd one, I feel, someday, she will sneak and meet my best friend, her mom.

She is my very best friend, in every sense of the word … through thick or thin, she is there for me. She comes over in winter storms to deliver me her yummy Christmas cookies … that’s a friend. Those cookies meant more to me over the years when I was down and out … my marriage ending in divorce, breakups with boyfriends prior to the holidays … and of course … this last go around with my EX and all his destruction.

What I am saying … no matter what life has to throw at you … no matter how rocky the relationships are … healthy or unhealthy … We only have this one shot at living … shouldn’t that one life have the people we love and care about in there … all in there? Don’t be upset about what the chaos is clouding minds and judgments … they will be worked out. Just make sure you tell them how much you love them and that you will be there for them … and that is what is called “A START”. That’s all any one can do.



OK everyone. I’ve got to get this off my chest. What we are ALL going through is with relationships … personal relationships with a significant other. Right? Right. Next, look around you … the person you were in love with isn’t the only anti-social in this world. They are in politics that affect your lives every day … they are in suits in the office, they run corporations, they teach our children, they were robes in your churches … they are your co-workers, and the people at the gas station, in the fast food restaurants, in your shopping check out lane, behind the counter, over the counter, above the counter. Open your eyes folks … it’s not just the people you were in love with … they are all over our country … throughout the world.

That’s all I needed to say. I just didn’t want everyone to get hung up on some stupid notion that you made a bad decision, or it was your choice. You know, sometimes they choose us??? Did you ever think about that? They are in our families … yes, yes, that funny uncle that your folks told you lived out of state, well heck, that uncle lived a couple of blocks away and you never knew it. That teacher that hated your gutts and made you cry … and you didn’t even know why. That classmate that always got you in trouble or talked behind your back and got all your friends to hate you. Remember? Does anyone remember any of the strange events that happened over the years … hey it hurt you to the court a 10 or 11, you’ve aged and you forgot all about it. But they were there then, they are here now.

Just something to ponder … and stop blaming yourself for what they are all about. “They” do have responsibilities for their actions … and someday, maybe someday … they will have to take responsibility for the messes they’ve caused in so many lives …




I am having a moment of weakness here. I was laying in bed thinking about all the good times that we had. I am crying uncontrollably as I write this. Someone please tell me when the pain will go away. I know that he is not worth my tears but I am mourning the loss of the man I thought he was. We did have some pretty amazing times. And the fact that we were always together makes it that much harder.

Okay, I’m done crying for now. I haven’t cried about him in a while but I couldn’t help it. Someone please tell me what I’m feeling is normal. I really need a hug right now. Well, I’m going to try to get some sleep and I will be blogging tomorrow morning when I wake up because I need everyone’s advice on something.

Good night and God bless….


coming to terms with the terrible,terrible understanding that one was not an object of love but a source of supply. That in itself is so painful that it has many stages of comprehension. The dawning of understanding that one’s nostalgia and tender memories of affection for the (P) were corrupted by the (P’s) agenda. It is a terrible loss and there is nowhere to go with that loss. It’s static. It doesn’t evolve into lost love. It just remains as a loss. Grieving a P is a burden, it’s a hole in one’s life. But yes, in time the pain will lesson and we regain ourselve’s and you will return to a more normal you. Crying is ok – your going through hell right now, just keep on going – but please know that this does not last forever – you will be ok – hang in there – and here is a big HUG from henry!!!


Why they do what they do.. that’s a big puzzle for people like us who care at least somewhat about others, and also care about what kind of people we are.. but WHAT they do.. that’s so simple.

Watching my ex-husband fish for bass is a wondrous thing (lol). He just throws out that line, knows right where to put it, what kind of bait to use, and jerks that line just a little bit and BAM, there’s a fish. Every time he throws it in, BAM, another fish.

S/P type people know there is an unlimited supply of “suckers” out there with big open mouths just waiting for someone to come along and love em. They throw in the most tempting bait they can find, they know right where to look for us too, they wiggle that line around a little, and BAM.. they catch one of us.

This is very easy for them. They don’t even think about it, it’s so easy. Keeping one on the line is a little harder. But not much. They don’t do anything like a normal person would to keep somebody. They just play us with that line, since we are already hooked. They give us play, when we start to pull away they let us go, then when we are confused and wondering what to do next, they reel us in. Sometimes they reel us all the way in, sometimes they just catch and release, sometimes they get way too many “suckers” at once and just cut them all loose..

But we suffer, suffer, suffer. The fisherman has all the fun, the fish just suffers. And when it’s all over, boy do we ever mourn the loss of that perfect, impossibly tasty bait. It’s just a game for them, but that surely does not make it hurt any less.


heartoheart.. big, big hug from me.. I still have one of these moments just about every day, even after 9 months. I miss him so much.. well not really the reality of him, but that fantasy I held in my arms. Just like Henry says, it’s such a burden to grieve over them, it takes so long and hurts so much..


The one thing that helped me to stop feeling guilty is to remind myself that I was just one of many victims and it wasn’t personal. That may sound odd because I did have a romantic relationship with my P but to him I was just an object. In his mind, as with all P’s is, he thinks in terms of ” I get A from that person and B from this person etc etc. I was chosen by him as the target and it had nothing to do with what I said or did.
Whatever circumstances any of us have collided with a P, you can be sure that they chose us but that is something we could not have known at the time.
As Wini says, they are everywhere and they are very well disguised. There are thousands of people being conned at this very minute!! That thought makes me feel quite sick.


heart to heart: HUGSSSS!!!!!
i had the same problem yesterday. i thought of all the lovely, wonderful things he said to me, looking into my eyes with his, us laughing hysterically together, the passionate love. and then i thought, ”it wasn’t REAL??!!”
how can that be?!?
i was like a member of his family, i was his ‘queen’, i was the ‘love of his life’, i was ‘my everything!” none of it was true?
are you sure?


Henry, Kat, LIG and Swallow,

Thank you, thank you, thank you for your responses and especially all of the hugs! I ended up calling my mom at work, crying to her about how much I miss him. She reminded me that he was a “bad man” and to remember all of the “bad times”. Thanks Mom! Geez, now my eyes are all puffy.

Yes LIG, I totally know how you feel. Same thing! It’s just so hard to believe that all if it was NOT REAL. It’s like what “Kat” stated earlier: “Why they do what they do.. that’s a big puzzle for people like us who care at least somewhat about others, and also care about what kind of people we are.. but WHAT they do.. that’s so simple.” It is hard for me to grasp how anybody could do something like that to anyone.

When I woke up this morning, instead of thinking about the good times, I had a little mantra that I told myself “It wasn’t me, it was him. It was NOT personal, I was a target.” I didn’t have that empty or lonely feeling I usually get every morning.

I hope you don’t mind me asking, but how long have all of you been in recovery? And have any of you started going out with friends again, dating, working etc.? Don’t get me wrong, I am far from dating and am hesitant to go out with friends. I am basically a hermit for now. I haven’t been to work for almost 3 weeks now and haven’t stayed in my apartment for 2. The thought of going back to the apartment that the ex-P and I shared kills me. And I feel so ashamed to go back to work. I don’t know when I should go back to my apartment or go back to work. I’ve used all my sick time for the first week off and now I’m using my vacation time. I hate to use all my vacation for this because it will take me a while to accrue vacation time again and sometime soon I think I will NEED a vacation. The 3 weeks of vacation I had was supposed to be used to be with the ex-P in Europe. Any advice would be appreciated.


heart: No Contact for four weeks and two days now, and i was with him on and off for 25 years. we were so close, i knew his family, his mom was my best friend, we laughed, we played, we loved. then his mom died last year and he became a different person. while he always had (i realize now) s/p traits, he didn’t start treating me really badly until then. i read that when they lose their primary parent (his dad died 10 years ago), they regress. well, that’s no joke!! regression on steroids, is more like it.
even though it’s only been a month for me, i already feel better … much better. i don’t have the constant anxiety of whether he’s going to show up, and when. i don’t have to wonder if he’s with another woman; he was, he is, she’s pregnant. all my money is now my own! my world no longer revolves around him, and even though that’s part of the challenge (who the hell AM i?), the time to myself is FORCING me to confront my own collaboration in the oppression!
be kind to yourself.


Dear lostingrief: Glad to hear you are finding yourself again … who you are, what you are all about, what you like, where you want to go and who you want to enjoy your life with. Those are just some of the positive perks that come with getting “users, abusers and greedy manipulators” out of our lives. I hope everyone you meet and greet in the future are just as positive in mind, body and soul as you.

Peace and harmony to you.

Oh, if you start to waffle, put some of your favorite music on while you clean your house … not only does it sooth your spirit … it makes doing housework fun.



I feel for you and I am too grieving and only slightly depressed, rather than very depressed. My therapist said I am grieving for the fantasy marriage. I don’t want him back and I don’t love him. I don’t want him happy or even appear to be happy. I know he loves rubbing my face in it. But, Ox said that NC is driving him crazy and he hates the fact that he cannot control me. I actually smiled when I read that.

I have been divorced/separated for about 3 years. I went to a divorce support group that really helped me gain friendships and people who never tired of my tears and hearing the same stories over and over again. When my ex got engaged I went crazy and decided I needed to see a therapist again who diagnosed me with PTSD and said my ex was an S–this was at the beginnning of June. Since then I have been NC (or trying my best since I have kids with him) and it seems that I am grieving all over again, but in a different way than when we separated/divorced. I now know what I am dealing with and it makes sense. I know what to call him now. Before, something still didn’t seem to jive. I have arms myself with knowledge; I read books about S and found THIS amazing website to help me realize that I am not crazy. I actually talked to my dad, who I alienated when I was married to S, and he said he did some research online about S and said I didn’t have a chance. Boy, does he get it. Whenever I call Dad now about my ex S behavior, he says, “He is being consistent and I am not surprised.” It sure feels good that he gets it–he knows what I am dealing with. My family is getting sick of hearing me cry about him (I know he is an ass, but I still cry) or hearing the most recent S behavior. I can’t seem to let this go…

I have been going out with friends who care about me and have dated, but I am really ready for that. I know there is a healthy man out there for me that deserves me. I am a good, honest, caring and loyal person that had the unfortunate priviledge to dance with the devil–I am glad the music stopped.

Quite honestly it still gets me that he gets away with all that he does. He has gotten money from people for businesses that he never started and never refunded the money and stolen from bank accounts that he doesn’t own. He is marrying his current victim for her money and stole from his past victim. There are probably more things that he has done that I can’t even imagine.


Ox Drover

Dear Heartoheart,

(((hugs)))) How LONG? As long as it takes. How long that is depends on a lot of different issues, but I CAN promise you, that if you hang in there and learn about them, READ every article here, get Robert Hare’s book “Without Conscience” and another book, can’t remember the authohr “The Psychopath Next door” (might be socio-path next door”) anyway, READ READ READ and LEARN LEARN LEARN and that will help you heal faster. Just knowing what you are dealing with will tremendously help. NO contact, none, nada, zip, zero, nil–absolutely NONE of any kind, don’t even let anyone give you “news” of him, will help your mind calm down and let reason and sanity return. As long as you are having contact of any kind, even by proxy, it will keep your mind going in circles of pain. No contact lets us “get sane” from the crazymaking they have done to us, let reality come to the front of the row. The REALITY is that they never cared, they just pretended to, they are NOT capabl.e of caring, they WILL not change, they WILL LIE, they will not tell the truth and it is all about THEM. (((hugs))))


Thank you LIG, Ginger and OxDrover for your responses (and for the hugs). I feel like LF is my safe haven. I really, truly feel safe here. Thanks to all of you!

OMG, I hadn’t realized that it’s only been 16 days since NC. It feels like an eternity! I guess that’s because I really never knew who HE really was. I honestly don’t believe he will try to contact me, which is a good thing.

OxDrover: Thank you for all of your advice and wisdom. I have been doing a tremendous amount of reading and research, especially via the internet. It has helped me to understand who they are. I just need to keep reminding myself over and over again what I know and engrain it in my brain.

Thank you for the book suggestions. There’s another book called “Women Who Love Psychopaths”‘. I think I’ll make a trip to the bookstore.

Also, I wanted to share this link with all of you in your road to recovery.

I read it this morning and it made me feel better. I hope it makes all of you feel better, too!


Ox Drover

Yea, NC at first feels so strange, or at least it did to me. For so long I couldn’t even consider NC, it just wasn’t on the plate of things to choose from. I don’t know why I never considered it but I didn’t. Even though from time to time I would have NC with some of my family I never considered it permanent.

Oh, there was so much I wanted to say to them ONE LAST TIME. one LAST CONTACT….but forcing myself to stick with NC is the ONLY thing that made me get my sanity back.


Oxy, that’s because we are always dealing from a loving perspective, never realizing all those loved ones had totally different agendas … greed, manipulating others because of their selfishness etc. That’s why people don’t make sense when you try so hard to be responsible with them. We bag our heads and bang our heads … for years, enduring all this pain … for what? All because we didn’t realize they can’t feel all the loving virtue’s of God’s that we as humans are suppose to strive for … all for that sin of “greed” …

Speaking of Greed … did anyone catch Oprah’s show today … about why men cheat?

Author wants us to by this baloney (taken from an anonymous phone number that cheaters could call and leave a recording of their sob stories (yeah, wild whopper stories) bull … that these folks that cheat are just like us, all confused, insecure, didn’t feel appreciated by their wives … yup, right … going to believe that one … the author should blog on with us … we’ll set his facts straight (LOL). WE can now ask him how does he spell “G R E E D” or “S E L F I S H”? Seems with all the political correct brainwashing these years we aren’t suppose to know about all this greed and selfishness and how it disguises itself in many, many ways. And the wives that got cheated on believed it. The day these people (men and women) will stand up in cheaters anonymous and say “yes, I am a selfish pr- -k” is the day, I’ll believe the rest of what they say … how they decided to become greedy, how they focused their lives around greed, all the decisions they made cause the greed was a monkey on their back … how they throw family members love over for greed. Hey, when you go to AA … you have to admit that you are an alcoholic … as you continue through the system … you then have to admit how selfish you are. That is the point when people leave the organization. They believed their own lies for so long, they refuse to admit their selfishness.

Enough said… you’re getting my message.




I keep finding stuff on this blog that I’d like to tell him about.. but I don’t do it.. for one thing I don’t even want any S/P to know this place exists and sully the pure waters of lovefraud with their muddy feet.. for another thing.. I know he doesn’t really care anyway.

This is my one little piece of success.. that I don’t try to change them.. I tried and tried and tried with my first husband.. it wasn’t till many years had gone by that I realized he LIKED being the way he was.. he was doing it on PURPOSE.


It is 2 1/2 years since I started NC and I’m almost back to my old self again but it did take a long time to get here!!
I wouldn’t think about time limits at all, recovery is a process of going through all the different emotions that have been battered and bruised and we all recover at a different pace.
As it is all so raw for you at the moment, you need to stay away from all the reminders as much as possible to give your mind a rest from the turmoil. Facing up to work and the appartment is also part of the healing process but at the beginning I would advise shutting yourself off completely from ANYTHING connected to him.
As much as possible divert your mind away from the P and use all your strength to look after yourself. Take care,


Thank you, Swallow!

It will definitely be hard to completely shut myself off completely from anything connected to him because it feels like EVERYTHING reminds me of him – the apartment, work (he picked me up everyday), the gym, our local grocery store, my favorite sushi place.

I have done the research and I know what a P is now. And I know in time I will heal…but why does it have to be so hard? Sometimes I feel like I will never get to that place of peace…two steps forward and four steps back. Hearing about your recovery gives me hope. Thank you again, Swallow.

Ox Drover


Look at the painful healing process sort of like labor pains for the BIRTH OF THE NEW YOU! I don’t know if you have had a child or not, but I remember how LOOOONNNNNGGG my labor was (18 hrs) of intense misery and I had had no prenatal education, I only knew the baby would be coming out between my legs, and I was alone in the labor room and in such agony, I just wanted it to be over SOON.

Later after my son was born, there was no pain, and even the memory of the pain was gone. I remember that I was “in pain” but I can’t feel it any more, I can’t conjure up that pain.

There will come a time when this painful memory will be just that, a memory but NOT PAINFUL. You can relate about your healing pain, just like I can relate about the labor pains I felt, and describe them, where they were etc. but I can no longer FEEL THEM.

As I have come along the healing path toward healing (but remember healing is a journey not a destination) I have had ruts and stones and pit falls, and taken some detours but all in all, I am better and happier now than I have EVER been. I am P-FREE, there is not a single P in my life right now, and I intend to keep it that way. I can trust myself again to not give in to emotional blackmail, I can trust myself to spot red flags and give the Ps the heave ho, over the side, into the drink!

I take care of myself again—well maybe I never did take care of myself before, but I AM TAKING CARE OF ME NOW. I am putting ME FIRST and not feeling guilty. I am setting boundaries on those that would use me. If they don’t respect those boundaries they are out of my life. Heave HO! Over the side with you, Matey—into the drink, get off my ship!

Those people who want a “free ride” can go over board now, it is either paddle, bail, or set the sails, but no one gets a free ride, either financially, emotionally or any other way. Not anyone, and that includes my friends, relatives and my kids and my mother. I am not going to sit in my little canoe while the entire world climbs into it and sinks it out from under me, which is what the Ps do. They sink your canoe and then hop on the next one passing by while you are floundering to keep from drowning.

You will recover heartoheart, but it’s just like the labor, you have to do it yourself and it is painful, but in the end, you will give birth to a “new you”—someone that you can be proud of, can love unconditionally, and enjoy being with. YOU! Wonderful YOU!


I felt the same as you for a long time and there will always be triggers that remind you of him but the longer you are away from the mind games the easier it gets.
It all feels like a nightmare that you can’t wake up from at the moment but remember, it was all an illusion – the person you thought you loved does not exist and it has nothing to do with what you did or didn’t do in the relationship.
I am only one of many who have recovered and you can too!!


OxDrover: Thank you, thank you, thank you! I am tearful reading what you had written, so eloquently said. I do not have any children…yet. I had two miscarriages – one with my ex-husband and one with my ex-P. The miscarriages were both blessings in disguise. Both men lied and cheated on me. Both miscarriages were still very emotionally painful. I really want children. I’ll be 38 in a couple of months so my biological clock is ticking faster and louder. I pray to God that I get through this, find a man who is worthy of my love and have a child(ren). I still have hope, thanks to everyone on this site.

Swallow: Thank you for all of your support! I appreciate all of the affirmations.


Ox Drover


I can tell you that my pain did not end when I got out of labor as far as My children are concerned. One of my sons is a full blown P, who is in prison for murder that he is PROUD OF how “horrible his crime was, worse than the cops even knew”–I have one 38 yr old biological son left and one 31 yr old adopted son, and I can tell you I am glad I have them. I can tell you though, that just having “biological children” isn’t all it’s cracked up to be, there is a lot of pain involved in raising them, and especially in today’s world. So if it happens that you don’t have biological children or don’t happen to find a good man, there are still ways to have children that you will love just as much as if you had gone through labor with them.

My adopted son didn’t come to us until he was a teenager, but he is a joy and a wonder in my life. I couldn’t be more proud of him if I had given birth to him, and he is truly the son of my heart. My husband (who is dead now) and I didn’t marry until we already had our kids from previous marriages, but we adopted D together as the “child of our old age” and he has been a blessing from the get go. My biological son has opted now that he is free of the P he married to NOT have biological children if he ever marries again because of the heritability of the P genes, and both sides of our families are rife with Ps. My FONDEST WISH was for grand-kids to spoil, and I am 61 and none in sight–the P is locked up (thank God) and my bio son is divorced from his P, and son D is so “picky” about potential mates that I’m not sure he will ever marry. He’s been engaged 3 times, but before the wedding, he broke it up when RED FLAGS started to wave. I always thought he would chose a life mate with his head as well as his heart, but I know that for a FACT now. He was soooo very much in love with the last one who turned out to be a “piece of work” once you got to know her and her family really well, which thank goodness we did before he married her.

I think Son C is also as he heals from his marriage to a p for almost 8 yrs (met her on the Internet) is becoming a bit more picky too. LOL So my chances for grand-kids is looking slimmer and slimmer, but though I grieved for a while about that, I am just leaving it in God’s hands and not worrying about it any more. I can be happy with or without grand-kids, and I have friends who have grand-kids where the parents are divorced and they worry all the time about the kids, being far away from them, and going through this trauma and that trauma, so at least I am spared those kinds of worries.

I guess I am in my old age (I’m 61) just starting to do as the Apostle Paul encouraged the Chritians to do “be content whatever your state”–after my husband died, I was devestated and wanted so badly to find another man to love me the way he had—and I became the victim of a P—but now I am content by myself and if someone comes along, fine, if not, that’s fine too. I’d sure rather be by myself than be with a BAD MAN. It’s been a long hard road, but I think I am getting to the “pavement” where the going is much smoother. I want to continue to “heal” and “improve” until the day I die, but, I think I am for the time being over the worst of the hurdles–the Ps in my life—everything else should be smooth sailing compared to them. LOL Hang in there, like will get better, I can promise you as long as you put YOURSELF FIRST.


okay, ready for this!?
after four weeks and four days of NC, my ex s/p shows up at my building and rings the bell. i was laying on my couch reading and immediately i froze. i wasn’t expecting anyone and no one shows up unexpectedly except my ex’s brother (who is very nice and knows his brother is a mess, but also knows i want NC with the family at all).
well, i looked out my lace curtain and saw my ex’s car double-parked. my heart started pounding. i watched the stairway (couldn’t see him standing at the door) and then he walked down and looked up at my windows. i thought, ”yes, look UP to try and find me.” i’m sure he just wanted something, but i couldn’t believe he would actually have the NERVE to come over and ask for anything, and without even calling me first! (probably because i haven’t answered any of his calls in the past 5 weeks.)
i heard he was going to some fashion event; he probably wanted his $200 dress shoes that are at my house. well, of course, i didn’t answer the door. the look on his face was strange. a pleading look, but i’m probably just reading in to it. an hour later i got a ‘restricted’ call. didn’t answer that either.
today i feel sad. does he deserve his belongings? i’ve been afraid to discard them. he’ll probably sue me.
why did he come back? did i do the right thing?
i’m still nervous from it.
he looked like shit.


LIG, You might want to consider boxing up his stuff and dropping it off at a friend of his or at one of his family members house, or if you have an address for him, just mail it to him (with no note included so he can’t misinterpret that as some sort of contact efforts on your part). That would eliminate him using his things at your house as an excuse for further attempted contact. I, personally, wouldn’t find it worth the risk of hanging onto something of my ex-P’s that he actually wanted, because I’d be afraid of retaliation, but then my ex-P is the vindictive type. And kudos to you for not answering the door!

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