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By | August 27, 2009 119 Comments

The Worst Historians

One thing that’s certain about sociopaths and exploitive personalities generally: when it comes to relationships, they are the worst historians.

They are chronic historical revisionists—that is, they are constantly revising history.

And their revisions are headed in predictable directions—to make them look good, unguilty, unresponsible for the damage they’ve caused and, of course, whenever possible, to position themselves as the true victims of the circumstances.

And that’s, of course, when history interests them. And history will interest them, but only when they can use it against you. If it suits their need, say, to punish you for a decision you made in the past, even before you met them, abusers may use this knowledge of your history as a weapon of attack or control in perpetuity.

The issue on which they fixate, for instance, may pertain to a sexual relationship that predated your knowing them; they may have coaxed, if not coerced, this information from you, perhaps in the honeymoon phase of your relationship, on the pretext of their wanting to know, preciously, everything about you.

They will not have hinted at their truer, underlying motive: to stumble upon eternally damning evidence of your corruption for future, endless punitive purposes.

On the other hand, when history obstructs, rather than enables, the exploiter’s self-centered agenda, then surprise surprise, he will have no use for, or interest in, it whatsoever.

History (accurate history, that is) will instead loom as a great annoyance to be ignored, if not aggressively suppressed. In such cases, the exploiter is likely to frame your interest in the history of his exploitation of you as off-limits.

How ironic—suddenly the self-centered, chronic boundary violator invokes the sanctitude of his boundaries, fingering you as lacking respect for his space. This would be funny, if it wasn’t so not-funny.

The problem of the exploiter’s manipulation or censorship of relationship history is grave inasmuch as healthy relationships depend on partners processing their history together with integrity; and also with the aim of deepening their intimate connection through joint efforts to understand, and make mutual meaning, of their shared history.

When this process is corrupted, there is no chance for a healthy relationship.

The exploiter, by virtue of his underlying disdain of your integrity, boundaries and individuality, makes this vital collaborative process impossible. This is not a process he will ever feel motivated to engage; and it’s a process, in any case, that will overwhelm his deficient capacity for true intimacy.

(My use of “he” in this post was for convenience’s sake. This article is
copyrighted (c) 2009 by Steve Becker, LCSW.)


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ANewLily

Steve, thank you for this explanation of a P’s revisionist history penchant. It truly enlightens me on a very troublesome and puzzling episode that occurred in the last throes of our “marriage” about three months before the final physcial abuse and my fleeing.

Out of the blue, my “empty suit” approached me, stuck his finger in my face (unusual), and unusually loudly proclaimed, “I know why you want me to leave. You are still in love with T…A….”

I had asked him two days before to give me some space, I was feeling smothered, and he wouldn’t comply. This was the first sentence he had uttered in those two days!!

To say I was shocked would be a gross understatement. T.A. was the last boyfriend (as a teenager) I had before meeting him. I hadn’t seen T.A. for over 48 years, yes 48 years!!! and his name had never been brought up during our “marriage” of 46.5 years! That he could even remember his name was shocking because he always claimed he had a poor memory – even though he had a high IQ – and I had believed him!

He just made the “out of the blue” statement and then left the house and all I felt then was gratitude for the peace of his absence. But, he didn’t stay out longer than two weeks at a time until the final

Months later I was to learn that he told our adult children and our neighbors that I had left him for an old boyfriend! To date, I have no idea if T.A. is even still alive!!

I think this story illustrates the content of your article, right? He had to bring up T.A. from MY history before him to protect his own ego?

At the time of the statement — and since — I have puzzled over why he didn’t ask me why I felt smothered and needed some space and why he felt inclined to make that false accusation instead. Your article enlightened me. THANKS!

ANewLily

… the final physical assault.

newlife08

Bravo, Steve !!!

Yet another behavior I can relate to.

I worked with my husband for a few years before we got together. After we had been together awhile, he would always ask me if i had dated anyone else form work – a few guys in particular. I worked with about 105 drivers in my department but they all knew I was off limits and didn’t mess around. It would have been great fodder for gossip had any of those guys been with any of us young girls at the time.

We talked, laughed , joked around and worked -even went out for drinks sometimes. But we always went home alone.

My H never stopped asking all these years – and it did make me so uncomfortable. What I did reveal about a prior marriage or my past hurts has now been turned around and used against me and my family. I could never understand how he could take a most intimate/damaging event in my life and discuss it with the OW – who then used it to hurt me.

Utterly reprehensible!!!! And he continues it even now.

It is also amazing how little fights, disagreements or even the BIGGER ones are so blown out of proportion as to be MONUMENTAL on my part as to why the marriage failed.

He never understood that his lack of care, kindness and attention left me withdrawn and frustrated – even angry.

It was so obvious how much I gave – and he gave so little except words, promises and sex.

When I pleaded for attention, help, kindness- it was my fault I did too much trying to be a goody two shoes !!!!

It was always my fault and continues to be so.

And he is forever punishing me – even through the divorce.

Ox Drover

Boy, Steve, you hit the nail on the head with this article!!! GREAT!!!

Actually, it got a smile and a chuckle out of me on this one, because I am finally at a stage where I can laugh (some) about this “revisionist” history stuff which they ALL seem to do.

One of the things I notice NOW that I didn’t “Pre-enlightenment” with people who have presented themselves as “victims” when in fact, they are CO-abusers with the psychopath who “bested” them in the relationship, and present themselves as “totally innocent” victims who could not possibly have prevented what happened to them OR could possibly help themselves now that they are destitute of finances, emotional support, etc.

The report to us how badly they have been abused by their previous abuser, and play on our pity as a “poor victim” and want us to rescue them. They give us this revisionist history of how the previous relationship was terribly abusive to them. Many times I have found myself in the past, falling for this pity play and persons pretending to be INNOCENT victims of a psychopath, who are in fact psersonality disordered themselves. Those people give REAL victims a “bad name” because theya re so convincing in their portrayal of “victimhood”—and frankly it is difficult to quickly tell the diference in REAL VICTIMS and in PSEUDO-victims who are themselves personality disordered and using the “pity play.”

I came up with an analogy recently about this type of disordered pseudo-victim.

PSEUDO-Victim: I can’t see, I need light.

Helper: turn on the light switch on the lamp then.

PSEUDO-Victim: I have tried to turn on the light 100 times in the past and I never get it to work. I am helpless to get light.

Helper: did you check the bulb?

PSEUDO-Victim: No bulb ever burns for me.

Helper: Did you see if the lamp was plugged in?

PSEUDO-victim: How am I supposed to know the lamp needed to be plugged in? I can never succeed at anything, the lamp is evil. I am not responsible for the lamp being evil. How could I have known?

Helper: Well, why don’t you plug in the lamp and see if it will give you light? If it doesn’t work, get another lamp.

PSEUDO-VICTIM: What’s the use, I asked you for light and all you give me are these suggestions I have tried 100 times before and they never worked. Everytime I tell someone about something I need, they respond just like you do, they never give it to me, everyone is out to get me, you’re just like the rest. I am a poor victim for whom no one cares. I can’t live without light and it is your fault I don’t have light, so therefore you are abusing me.

kim frederick

Mine would come home with some very personal information about me that he’d gleaned from my friends or aquantances. I was always amazed at how good he was at eeking out this information. Sometimes it wasn’t even true and I found it astounding that he found me so important that he had to discuss my business with everybody. Double function,here. He showed me that even my personal life was his.(boundry violation) He effectivly isolated me from the people who had talked to him.
When it came to me reminding him of some dispicable thing he’d done, well that was “water under the bridge”. If I unmasked him in some way, he would say,”nobody here wants to hear you fuss.”

Morgan

Yes! The “P” told me when I confronted him after meeting his “new” girlfriend at his house that they’d been seeing each other six weeks. That meant he cheated on me.

Months later–we’re sitting in a whirlpool together and he said he’d never cheat with a married woman!!? I reminded him he cheated on me because he was dating “L” while he was still calling himself my boyfriend.

When I said six weeks he looked at me with this very puzzled face!!! He apparently gets so confused between truth and fiction that he forgot what he told me.

He denied it, of course. So, I reminded him of the conversation. He denied it again.

By the time this conversation occurred I was well over him. I rarely see him at this place anymore. He conveniently told me when he works out. I don’t go at that time. If I do see him I ignore him.

He wants to chat like we’re close friends!

ANewLily

Dear precious and wise Oxy — are you sure about your evaluation of Pseudo-victims? It truly sounds more like judgement to me from your own filters — or because victims don’t take your advice? I think you mentioned before that you have spent so much time coming up with solutions, you have gotten tired when they won’t listen.

We can’t walk in another’s shoes. It’s impossible.

neveragain

Great blog!

The Bad Man would get so angry if I emailed him back something he had sent to me three days prior that he was now totally contradicting (usually about his feelings) in his current email. About MAJOR stuff. And as you said, I was the one , in his opinion , who was doing something terribly wrong by pointing out his constant contradictions. He would say he wasn’t interested in ANCIENT history….from three days prior! And that I should realize that people change.

I was also appalled that he would tell me things that were deep, dark secrets about other people. Things they would obviously not want shared. When I would say he shouldn’t be telling me those things, he’d just shrug and change the subject.

Ox Drover

Dear Lily,

Please go back and carefully re-read the “conversation”—it would in my opinion, only be “enablilng” when the “Helper” continues on forever trying to find solutions and then gets mad at the “pseudo-victim” or even a REAL victim. The Enabler gets mad at the victim for not taking their “good advice” but a HELPER may make suggestions on where they could find it, but not (1) get up and get them the light or give them their own light and sit in the darkness themselves or (2) get MAD at the person for either sitting in the darkness and making NO effort to help themselves

Many times I have ENABLED, which is doing for others what they should be doing for themselves, then getting mad at them because they wouldn’t help themselves and/or the person I “did things for” was “ungrateful” because they didn’t like the results I got or didn’t like me trying to control their lives.

The LINE BETWEEN helping and enabling, in my opinion, is more attitude than anything else. A HELPER does not automatically feel it is his/her responsibility to PROVIDE YOU light if you are in the dark, or to give you their light because you are in the dark. They will help you FIND the light or solve a problem, but not DO it FOR you.

A mother who asks her kids to pick up their clothes from the floor, who, when the child doesn’t do it, picks them up herself but gets angry and irritated with the kids and then “blows up” at them the 10th time she picks up their clothes is an ENABLER.

A Helper mother would tell her kids (of appropriate age) I expect you to pick up your clothes and put them in the hamper so I can wash them. (boundary) and if you do not put them in the hamper I will not wash them.

So, if the kid leaves the clothes on the floor, the helper mother does NOT pick them up, but also does not wash them, so when the kid screams (consequences of their own behavior of not picking up the clothes) “I have nothing to wear that’s clean today!” the mother reinforces the consequences by saying, “well, you will just have to wear dirty clothes to school today.” So, hopefully the child will learn that s/he must be responsible for picking up their own clothes or there will be NATURAL consequences for failure to do so.

Helping, but with APPROPRIATE boundaries, is a good thing. Enabling ALWAYS leads to anger/resentment on BOTH the sides of the enabled and the enabler. And each will feel mistreated by the other.

A helper gives an OPPORTUNITY for a (in this case) pseudo-victim that wants the HELPER to take responsiblity for seeing that the pseudo-victim has what they need without any effort on their own part, and when they see clearly by the BEHAVIORS that the pseudo victim wil lmake NO effort on their own part to meet their own needs, then BACKS AWAY from this pseudo-victim and does not offer any more help or opportunity —- a REAL victim will utilize opportunity to HELP THEMSELVES find a solution to the “darkness” and will not look for someone else to “rescue” them from their own responsibilities.

REAL victims are sometimes left in a state of “near-helplessness” for a WHILE but they do not stay in that state forever once they have distanced themselves from their abuser. Real victims still stay with their abuser sometimes for life—but even REAL victims have to come to the conclusion that they must ACT for themselves to SAVE themselves.

Donna published an article a year or more ago, and I am sorry that I don’t remember the whole title, but it was along the line that VICTIMS must save THEMSELVES, we cannot do it for them. The person who I think was a pseudo-victim wrote Donna asking for DONNA to SAVE her and ever suggestion or help donna offered was turned aside as “impossible” or the person did not want to do it.

Remember Biddy? she came here “asking for help and advice” and it was offered to her, GET AWAY from him. But SHE CHOSE to defend and excuse him and to STAY. Was Biddy just a real victim still lattached to her abuser or was she as pseudo-victim? I don’t know, but I DO KNOW that we all saw a point that it was NOT HELPING her for us to use our emotional resources to “help” her, We were at that point in time Spinning our wheels with UBNproductive advice.

She had told us she was in pain and “darkness” and we told her where the “light” was, and how to plug it in, and turn it on, but she refused our offers of HELP. We knew that more helpful advice was useless at THAT TIME any way. Who knows, she may come back again, but if she again refuses to “turn on the light” or even “plug it in” at some point we can say, “she is acting like she wants us to take responsibility for her plight” Of course we couldn’t help her physically over the internet, but if we were in physical contact with her we would need to withdraw contact with her if she continued to try to get us to take “responsiblity” for her plight when SHE REFUSED TO TAKE RESPONSIBLITY FOR HERSELF.

Each of us here gives comfort, validation, advice, and consulation, but each of us too, must make our own decisions and TURN ON OUR OWN LIGHTS BY TAKING RESPONSIBILITY FOR OUR OWN CHOICES and ACTIONS.

Having BEEN an ENABLER as I was trained to be by my egg donor, I DO NOT WANT TO BE THAT WAY EVER AGAIN. I will if asked offer advice, but I do NOT have any expectation that the person so advised will take it or profit from it, and will not become angry with them for failing to do so, but at the same time, I will NOT accept responsibility for their choices. they may take or leave my advice, but they are going to have to “light their own lamp” as me lighting a lamp for them will not teach them how to light their own, or provide them with what they need to keep it burning.

I will only take responsiblity for a small child who is unable to take responsiblity for themselves. ALL else will have to paddle their own canoe. I might tell them where to find a paddle, but I will NOT swing it for them. If they refuse to paddle, or don’t like the paddle I told them where to find, then that is their problem if they float off down toward the waterfall. It is up to them to save themselves, just as I have done.

I hope that makes sense to you Lily. I will always be willing to help others, but never willing to do for them what they need to do and are responsible for doing for themselves. Been there and done that, and it is not “helpful” or good for anyone.

Ox Drover

PS LIly,

Psychopaths frequently are PSEUDO-victims, and use the pity play to get someone else to support them and take care of them. they “can’t get a job” so want you to support them and provide them room and board and transportation etc.

Henry’s X is a perfect example of a pseudo-victim, telling Henry how the man he was with before used and abused him. Well, the man may have, but it doesn’t matter because Henry’s X was ALSO a user and an abuser who was looking for another “sugar daddy” to take care of him and provide for him because he was too disordered and lazy and shiftless to provide for himself.

Psychopaths are good at providing a convincing picture of being “victims” but they are PSEUDO-VICTIMS. Once we see that a person who appears to be a “victim” is NOT willing to take any responsibility, who uses the opportunities we may give them to help themselves simply as another opportunity to use someone and victimize their “helper” then we need to cut ties with this person.

MANY dysfunctional relationships are TWO psychopaths victimizing each other–and when o ne gets the upper hand and the pseudo-victiom is forced to go out looking for a weaker victim, they pretend to be “victimized” by the other person. It is a great pity play and I bet a lot of people here have taken in Ps who were posing as victims. I have, but I won’t keep them around very lonog in the future because I am doing as Jesus suggested and “inspecting the fruit” of the “tree” i.e. looking at their behavior. The person who will not utilize opportunities to HELP THEMSELVES are not people I will waste much time “trying to help.”

Awesome article again, Steve.

I have a gazillion examples of the sinister “history revision” from many people (friends(?) and lovers) in my past which led to me becoming more confused, frustrated, and depressed.

When you continue to allow these liars in your life, reality most definitely takes a nose-dive and leaves you bewildered. Now, the best recourse is to jump ship the very first time this situation arises.

If they will do it once they will certainly do it again.

Oh, and also, if you’re not totally aware, accepting and strong in the knowledge, reality of who you are as a woman/man you will be very vulnerable to these types of attacks.

And being a persistent people pleaser, overly concerned with the feelings and comfort of others, putting them before fulfilling your most basic needs and wants, caving to the false society perception I refer to as the “cult of nice” will also cause you to be vulnerable.

True, I was susceptible to predation and exploitation until I figured out the above. Not anymore, my dearest and lovely LF friends.

I am confidence personified when mingling with the masses. I no longer need a male in my life to validate my desirability, to feel whole and complete so, yeah, I’m intolerant to bad behavior.

And I consider loneliness to be an illusion because if you really want to share conversation, a good time with people, it’s possible simply by walking out the door and greeting said people. Yes, this is an easy concept for me to embrace considering I totally dig and flourish in solitude. But, hey, that’s just me, your pal Jane…haha.

8)

ANewLily

Oxy, thanks for clarifying your interpretation of a “psuedo-victims.” I didn’t read your dialogue that way.

I think it may because I have only had experience with one narcissiopath and have had much different life experiences than you have. Our filters do affect interpretations of the written word, I think.

At the airport coming from the funeral, I did encounter another “true” victim. I was in the airport restroom with my niece thinking we were all alone and trying to answer her questions about my life with “empty suit.” This lovely woman spoke up and said, “You are telling my story!” I hugged her and told her about LoveFraud — and was grateful that my niece had heard the whole thing. If she didn’t know before, she did “get” that my story isn’t unique. The woman described her sociopath very well.

kim frederick

Hey everybody. I’m so glad you’re all here. When I ended my last psycho-pathic relationship, I didn’t have the luxery of LF. Didn’t have a compter andwas preatty much computer illiterate. I stayedin my psycho relationship for seven years, even though my P wouldn’t work, let me support us on a waitress’salery,that is tips. I worked doubles and graveyards etc just to pay the rent. He broke my rib, blackened my eye, stole the electric bill money out of my purse. Cheated on me and abandoned me on three seperate occations, when the bottom was falling out and I was being evicted. The last time I ended up in a shelter.(He went to a buddies house and partied, also started chatting up his new victim) Anyway, going to the shelter was a real blessing even though I had been so afraid of losing my place. At least there I was safe.

kim frederick

But my point is, I knew there was somthing wrong with me, but I didn’t know what to do. I had told some friends and family members and yes they got tired of hearing it. I did not want to be in that relationship, but I was quite literally incapable of getting out. That was why I needed help. Oxy, I understand what you mean by enabling, but I hope you, along with all the otherwiseand inspiring people don’t lose patience with the one’s who are struggling to leave. Pleasehave patience with my spelling and grammar. Thanks to all for being here.

bunny

i was always very guarded about what I said to the phycho/narc and on one occasion they were so desperate to attack me with something (but they didn’t have anything at all to go on) they took some vague recollection that I’d had some overseas relationship when I was very young and unattached and spun it into a fantastic story.

Aparently the person I had fallen madly in love with was an arab muslim and that his rejection made me develop some totally irrational negative attitude to that whole group. Also the fact that I didn’t particularly like that bunch (the only accurate part of her accusation) meant that I couldn’t be having a satisfying sexual relationship with my current partner, because if I had been able to experience orgasmic pleasure, I wouldn’t be so negative about muslims.

Wow, suddenly blonde blue eyed athiest Niels has turned into a arab muslim, and as for my sex life – well aparently – not as good as it could be. And of course because I’m so “deeply” disturbed I should seek phyciatric help immediately. Go figure!

bunny

In short if they don’t have any real history they will invent or embellish something and try and flog you with that.

bunny

the psycho/narc in my life is not an intimate.

neveragain

I have to confess…I ALSO rewrote history in my mind…found excuses for what he did. Read a lot more love into what he was saying than he meant. Thought he was “just kidding” when he said some things.

The nice thing about having all the emails is that NOW I can go back, when I’m not in the my own fog of wanting so much to believe his story, to believe in him, to believe in my dreams, to believe in the mission I thought we held together….and I can clearly say “WHOA….he really meant what he said there, he wasn’t kidding when he said “why shouldn’t I want to intimidate you?” “WHOA …..he MEANT that rape talk, he was not kidding.” “WHOA….I clung to that one statement of love and held on for dear life for HOW long???”

And when I tried to process our history with him….I never noticed he wasn’t affirming what I was saying. I just kept on holding on for dear life to my dream.

We rewrite history to make them look good. (“That really isn’t who he is, I just know it!”) They rewrite history to make us look bad. (“You are a selfish, demanding b*tch and have been since day one.”)

Ox Drover

Dear Kim,

My dear you had a horrible experience, and believe me I know that victims STAY far too long. I DID TOO. I let my son abuse me, then after my husband died, I hooked up with and almost married a psychopath….I KNOW WHAT YOU ARE SPEAKING OF.

It is not the true victims that I have no patience with, and sometimes it is hard to tell the difference—for example, I hve an idea that your psychopathic X told everyoen how YOU HAD MISTREATED HIM. You were the VICTIM, the TRUE victim, but HE WAS THE PSEUDO-VICTIM, the pretend victim, and he presented himself as the one that had been abused.

You have not been here long enough to know the story of henry’s X, but he came to Henry and told Henry how his X had abused and hurt him, thrown him out into the cold alone, homeless and without transportation—he was a false-victim, he was JUST AS MUCH A PSYCHOPATH as his X.

Many times two psychopaths will hook up. For a while they take turns abusing each other, then, eventually one gets the better of the other one, and the “loser” goes out into the cold as a FALSE-victim, trying to find someoen else to TAKE CARE OF THEM, support them, meet their needs without them having to lift a hand. In other words, they each go seek a weaker victim to prey on.

Henry’s moved in and started to take advantage of henry’s good nature….of Henry giving him a place to life, cook for him, take him places, get his teeth fixed, get him a vehicle, get him a driver’s license, etc. and of course Henry footed the bills.

Ditto Matt’s X—an x convict, out for a person to mooch off of for money and to cheat on.

Sometimes at first it may not be “clear” who is a real victim and who is a false one, but usually it doesn’t take too long if you watch for it for you to see that they DO NOT want to help themselves, they want you to TAKE RESPONSIBILITY for giving them things, letting them mooch off you, letting you do things FOR THEM but they are not willing to even treat you like you are any better than a hog. It is all about YOU taking care of THEM and them doing nothing besides tellin you that you uare worthless and don’t do enough for them.

We may have fallen for these lines in the past, or felt guilty because we “didn’t do enough” but you know, WE ARE SMARTER AND WISER THAN THAT NOW!!!

I am glad that you went to a shelter, and that “bad” thing turned out to be a GOOD thing after all. It got you away from the MONSTER! It got you support, but I do know this, shelters do not let you move in and lay on your butt for 5 years while they feed and house you and make your bed for you, and serve you your meals on a tray.

They do NOT enable you, but they GIVE YOU AN OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE A SAFE PLACE TO STAY WHILE YOU HELP YOURSELF. That to me proves you are a REAL victim, NOT A FALSE ONE. You took the opportunities the shelter provided and didn’t expect someone else to support you in a “style you’d like to become accustomed to.”

After my divorce in 1980, for 3 months I lived in the back of my pick up truck with a camper shell on it with 2 kids, and a cat and not much else. We stayed in the small parks that had no services (water or electric for campers) to save the $4 a day charges for those that had services, but we would drive in during the day there and get a shower at the one with services at the bathhouse for campers or we would bathe in teh creeks.

I let myself be a victim for far too long just like you did, but I am no longer a victim, I am a VICTOR and a SURVIVOR, and SO ARE YOU! ((hugs))))

This monster gets my vote for THE worst historian:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32583149/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/

Impressed. Bah.

Matt

justabouthealed:

I did the same thing you did — rewrite history in my mind. One of my greatest regrets is that I didn’t take him at his word when he told me “From here on in, I’m only looking out for number one.” That was the one time he spoke the truth and I was a fool not to take him at his word.

Tomorrow I am leaving for Greece — one year to the day when I took S on that all-expense-paid (by me) trip to hell (by him). Upon arrival at our villa I intend to perform an exorcism to rid the place of any memory, trace evidence or reminder of S. I look forward to making a whole lot of nice, new memories with my new interest who is coming over for part of my stay and with one of my best buds from college with whom I share a birthday, who is coming over after enduring chemo and radiation.

Hecates path

Steve,
You truly amaze me with your ability to write about these P behaviors in a way that makes us stop and think and reflect… and then most importantly engage in dialogue to promote our individual and collective growth and healing. Truly wonderful and as always greatly appreciated.

This particular post really hits a nerve with me because the ex S/N/Borderline is a MASTER at this… but his mastery of it at times contradicts his “I’m a victim” persona… but of course nobody else sees this…

I hope everyone reads this next part carefully because I don’t want ANYONE to think I am not supportive of our country’s veterans and service members and their sacrifices. That said, the ex S served in Iraq and has embraced the wounded, battle weary veteran role in way that is insulting to other veterans. He uses his wounded veteran status/perona/role as carte blanche to explain/justify his behaviors as being TBI or PTSD related. I, however, see now that he exhibited S behavior long before his deployment, and that he seems to pick and choose when his “symptoms” will be useful or when he rationalizes his (undiagnosed/unknown to him) Borderline Personality traits/symptoms as PTSD or TBI. An example of this is his Borderline rage behaviors or when he can’t remember things, or exhibits Borderline speech patterns – such as interupted speech ( he’s trying to remember which lie he told previously or change the subject, etc.) or when his stories don’t quite “add up.”

The joke is that when this guy wants to “re-write” history or screw someone over he seems to not only remember and manipulate every last detail but he can also find the most off- handed thing someone has said and twist it to his advantage. He also claims he can’t remember chunks of time, but I witnessed him dissociate, as is a hallmark of BPD splitting behaviors and again know this was present long before he went to war. He had his ex wife convinced he can’t remember anything until I finally said to her don’t you think it’s odd he can remember x & y & z but not A, B, & C, which are all things he doesn’t wish to be accountable for?! And boy did he remember and distort details from “way back when” when he engaged in his slander campaign against me.

The military is “perplexed” as to why he makes no progress even with treatment – which he does spoardically as Borderlines do when symptoms become problematic- and why he only seems to get worse. If the military had his whole history, they’d see that war may have made his behavior worse, BUT it DID NOT create his issues – the seeds of his behavior and evidence of BPD/S/N were there long before — as far back as his childhood and young adult life, and most notably in the year before he went/volunteered to go war as his life was crashing around him after he succumbed to all kinds of temptation and bad behavior to alleviate his “boredom”… empty bored chameleon should have been his code name!!

No wonder he was attracted to special forces/operations… oh wait my therapist said Borderlines/Sociopaths have this “habit” of making up or seriously embellishing military experience… hmmm (tongue planted firmly in cheek!) How convenient?!

newlife08

Matt,

Travel safely, friend.

This time you are seeing Greece with a clear view and a more peaceful soul.

Have a hell of a time!!!!

~ new

Hecates path

Happy Travels Matt!
Enjoy every minute of all the new memory making!!
Will look forward to your re-cap!

Matt

newlife08 and Hecates path:

Thanks. When I have my backside dropped into a lounge chair while I am studying the ever-changing patterns of the waves as I roll off the ocean, I will signal Kostas the cabana boy, order some frozen drink with an umbrella in it and toast all my LF friends — and wish you were there with me — and if you saw Kostas the cabana boy you WOULD wish you were there with me!

Rosa

Matt:

Your trip to Greece sounds heavenly. What a difference a year makes, right? Safe travels to you, Matt.

Is your S still roaming free? Or, has he gotten himself into a pair of silver bracelets, again?

Rosa

Actually, scratch the questions about S. Not worth it.

Have a wonderful time in Greece.

ErinBrock

Matt:
I hope you find all your dreams in the lapping waves, the new interest….AND IN KOSTAS the cabana boy!!!
IT all sounds just wonderful!!
Enjoy yourself…..
XXOO

Matt

Rosa:

After S’s stunts in Greece last year I find myself having to fight down the urge to send him either (a) a postcard saying “Having a fabulous trip — the exact opposite of our trip” or (b) a copy of the kaftan he stole my from my neighbor’s villa — on my birthday, no less or (c) the cheesey ring he gave me, which I subsequently learned that he had stolen from his ex.

As for the silver bracelets, I suspect that S is reaching for that brass ring as we speak.

Matt

ErinB:

Speaking of Kostas, a few years back I was in Greece when they had the Mr Gay Greece contest. The finalists were 11 guys named Kostas and 1 named Adonis. You can already see how that ended up. Anyhow, they are announcing the runnerups. 12th runnerup Kostas gets a trip for 2 to Santorini, 11th runnerup Kostas gets a trip for 2 to Athens, etc. down the line.

Finally they announced the winner — Adonis. Adonis gets a trip for one around the world. My friend says to me “I don’t get it. How come he only gets a trip for one around the world?” My reply? “Take a look at him, you idiot. Obviously the contest sponsor has the other ticket.”

Hecates path

Matt:
I was wishing I was your traveling companion at the first mention of the beach, waves and drinks… kinda like “you had me at hello” LOL! But yep Kostas the cabana boy would seal the deal.;) Funny I just told Henry earlier this week if he hit the lottery I’d be happy to accompany him to a warm sunny place… just as with Oxy, thanks for letting us live vicariously thru you! Please know that as you toast your LF friends, it is us who wish we could be there to toast you for all the savvy legal advice you so willingly share here and for all the happiness you have in your life that inspires the rest of us! And, last but not least, even though I have no mental picture of your ex S I was LMAO at the thought of you sending him a post card… hilarious!

Erin B:
from the other thread re: your house: Fabulous news!!! I’m very happy for you that the mort. co. is working with you and you won’t lose your house. Glad you’re getting your piece of the good news pie that seems to making the rounds here at LF… hopefully there’ll be more for the taking! Good luck at court, too… it’s not like you need luck though when you have Erin B perseverance & tenacity! 🙂

skylar

Bon Voyage, Matt. We’ll miss you.

Ox Drover

Dear Matt,

Holpe your trip is wonderful! Hey, guy, I have a new “beau” (if you can call 3 dates–including tomorrow night’s date) a “beau.”

He’s met both my kids, and today son D said “You know, he reminds me of (my late husband) in a lot of ways, but quieter.”

You know, I think he does in ways, personality, but not in looks. Actually he is quite a nice looking man for 67 and smart and seems to be caring and kind, so who knows. what will happen? So far my expectations are low and I am taking things pretty slow–he’s from Ark. and his father and brother have lived in this community for 30+ years about 3 miles from me, and I have known the family casually. Of course, I knew my X-BF-P casually for 10 years before I dated him and he still turned out to be a psychopath. But from now on people EARN TRUST with me–they dont’ have it dispensed to them for free any more.

It just proves though, guys and gals, if a LAWYER and a MOUTHY OLD LADY with a Fat Ass can get a nice date you younger and better looking things are going to find the true love of your lives eventually! I haven’t had anyone with all their teeth and not cross-eyed even ASK me out on a date in nearly 4 years! Besides, what are the chances of someone my age who is smart, a pilot, nicely retired, and from around here finding me on the back side of NO [email protected]? LOL Oh, and he has a motor sail boat in Florida and a home in Georgia as well, and spends part of the year up here with his family, so I won’t have to support him if he turns out to be a keeper. You know, Matt, that is a plus–what was it you used to say about how DID you put it?

The “-TIONS”

habita-tion
occupa-tion,
educa-tion,
transpor-tation.

I think that was it.

Matt I am glad you have found someone nice to be with, and hope your trip is wonderful. Making wonderful memories for a life time. You have come a long way, Matt, and I am happy for you. Let us know when you get back!!! (((hugs)))) Oxy

ErinBrock

Matt:
I hope you are revealed to your “ADONIS” on this trip……
Cheers to you both and our Lf friends who won’t be physically with you…..but in ‘spirit’ checking out the Kostas along with you!
I have a mental pic of him…..mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!!!!!
Stay safe and happy!

Hecates:
Thanks for your thoughts…..
Ya know….your right about the luck comment……but really, it’s all about right is right and wrong is wrong……
Your a doll!
XXOO

teacher123

I can’t agree more that psychopaths are great at revising history/the truth. Mine sweet talked me, stared at me, flirted, and revealed her body parts nonstop for about a year and half until I was convinced that she liked me more than a little. When I gave in to my feelings I was having for her, then she acted like I was a perp having one of our mutual friends turn me in for sexual harassment. Reading your stories I see many have had similar, but different experiences. I have an example from a movie that might explain this type of behavior. It is from Cheech and Chong’s Next Movie with Pee Wee Herman. Not a direct quote- I’m sorry I took the money, I’m sorry I took the money, I’m sorry, I’m sorry, I’m so sorry. A couple of minutes later on the way out- I’m not sorry hahahaha. In real life it sounds like this- I love you. I love you. I love you. I don’t love you hahahaha

teacher123

Or in some cases- I hate you and want to kill you haha.

candyharlau

my P said he had fought in the Vietnam war…even went to the memorial in Washington DC…people were giving him flags, so he could display/show his allegience…he would just toss them in the corner…more lies. his allegience is to himself…who is/was this guy?

neveragain

Talk about revisionist history….

Here’s a quote from the AP story about the guy that kidnapped Jaycee when she was 11.

“Garrido gave a rambling, sometimes incoherent phone interview to KCRA-TV from the El Dorado County jail Thursday in which he said he had not admitted to a kidnapping and that he had turned his life around since the birth of his first daughter 15 years ago.
“I tell you here’s the story of what took place at this house, and you’re going to be absolutely impressed. It’s a disgusting thing that took place from the end to the beginning. But I turned my life completely around,” he said.”

We’re going to be impressed!!!!!!!!!!!!!! There is that pathological self-assured attitude that Steve has also written about. I find my words inadequate to react to this whole thing!

The article also states that Jaycee bonded with him and feels guilt about that.

She was 11! Of course a betrayal bond formed.

It also illustrates my problem of too quickly jumping to “what did I do wrong?” In some cases like this, it is more obvious than in others, that she was truly a victim. But so were all of us, no matter what red flags we ignored, no matter what lapse in ethics we had, etc. etc. etc. WE WERE CONNED, EMOTIONALLY RAPED, ABUSED, ETC. There was a BAD GUY. Hello!!!

And I still think it is mentally healthier to think in terms of learning things to better protect ourselves in the FUTURE, rather than taking owning our contribution for the past.

But I continue to flip flop on that.

Ox Drover

a very COMMON thing is for Ps to be total IMPOSTERS, even their name may be wrong, and some of them are totally good at it, liviing a COMPLETE LIE–pretending to be war heroes, and from famous families (remember the fake Rockefeller that kidnapped his daughter?)

I think the worst, or at least one of the worst, parts of these things are people looking at YOU like YOU are the IDIOT of the century. Look at poor Sandra Boss and the PUBLIC abuse SHE got for HIS crimes and her not figuring them out.

I think in the “true lovefraud stories” on this blog you can see some PRETTY SMART PEOPLE have been totally conned or duped. I consider myself pretty bright, and one of the worst FEELINGS I ahd about all this abuse from my P-son, the Trojan Horse-Pchopath, my P-sperm donor, my enabling egg donor, the P-BF, etc. was that I HATED MYSELF for being so “stupid”—yea, I even felt “better than” the women who let them beat them and went back, but when the FOG lifted, I realize I was JUST AS “STOO-PID” as the women who let men beat them repeatedly—I was no better than them, no smarter, no better insight. Once I realized it all though, the cunning and the masks, etc. I realized that I didn’t make good choices about putting up with any of their crap, their lies, etc. was that even so, I WAS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR THEIR ACTIONS—THEY WERE.

I also realized that PEOPLE EVEN SMARTER AND BETTER EDUCATED THAN I AM fell for some cons worse than mine.

Just knowing that there were a bunch of SMART and GOOD folks here on LF that got conned just like I did, that made the same decisions to stay that I did, made me feel LESS STOO-PID, and just another good and smart person who got conned.

To finally stop beating myself up for being so STOO-PID was the first step in turning myself from being a sobbing pile of victim, into working on the person I want to become.

I believed a lie. I believed many of them. THEY told the lies. I didn’t. Sure there were CONSEQUENCES because I believed the lie, and those were real for me but I was not the one that TOLD the lie.

Coming here to lovefraud taught me a lot of things, made me feel better about myself for believing the lies and then taught me that I can learn to be more CAUTIOUS about what I believe, learn to spot the inconsistencies in the lies of the psychopaths. Just like I am not “perfect” and make mistakes, so do THEY. As Dr. Bob hare said, they “know the words, but not the music.”

In order to protect ourselves from falling into the clutches of another psychopath, we need to educate ourselves about THEM. Then learn to put that education to USE in our lives.

skylar

YES OXY!
We are not bad for being good. We were trusting and loving. We threw our pearls to swine because they were disguised as human beings. That is not our fault.
Now we know, now it is our responsibility to tell others.
Perhaps Lovefraud needs to come up with some tee-shirts:
how about just the word “Narcissists” with a red circle and a red line through it? Or, “Narcissists need not apply here”
Basically anything to get the conversation going.

fireflys

I am new hear and have been reading some posts. I fully believe my husband is a sociopath brutally cruel at times then charming at others. He has admitted to not knowing if he can feel guilt or shame, admitted he does not know what love is and thinks it is a myth to make people feel better. Has a sense of intelecutal superiority of others and on and on and on. I am wondering if it is normal to still feel bouts of guilt and shame even after realizing what has happened and what he is. I still feel under his spell and question my sanity or if I really could have been the abuser. Has anyone else felt this after the relationship ended? I am see a counselor on monday for these issues. We were together 9 years and have 3 young boys together. I am terrified of mine and the kids future with this man.

Tilly

I don’t know if you have the briar rabbit story over there. Every real Aussie kid from my generation (baby boomers)was brought up with the kids story about the rabbit who begged the wolf “please mr. wolf, you can do anything to me, but PLEASE don’t throw me in the mulberry patch!!” Of course, the wolf eventually does just that, and throws the rabbit into the mulberry path. Then we find out that the mulberry patch is actually where the rabbit lives (his safe haven home).
Well I fell into the briar rabbit story. I told my ex p partner that i was reading Victor Frankl’s book and carried it everywhere with me, because it had helped me recover from the P solicitor.
First of all my p partner got a hold of Victor Frankls book (mans search for meaning) and read it three times in a row and learned many pages/quotes from it. Then he wanted to discuss it ad nauseum, not just with me but with every person in his life.. He told everyone ” i have found this amazing book! I will buy you a copy as it is a must read (so he bought two of his ex partners’ the book), then he systematically found out EXACTLY what the P solicitor did to me.
All this time, i was saying to everyone (unbeknowingly) as my daily mantra, ” “oh please do anything to me but don’t throw me in the mulberry patch like the P solicitor did. I would never survive it.” (translation: don’t do what the solicitor did to me as I can survive anything but THAT).
So of course, at a date set ( that seemed totally random to me, but in retrospect was planned to the dot on the i), my p partner did EXACTLY what the solicitor did. And I mean EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!
So, the big difference for me was, that even though it was pre-enlightened days (of knowing about these a###oles), I had virtually nothing left for him to steal except the three most important things to me. ie my sanity, my dignity, my clean record, my reputation restored after seven years WORK in the courts appealing legal abuse ( I won) etc.
So now here i was back at square one. And he got me when I least expectd it! Of course.
I should have told him “PLEASE DON”T THROW ME BACK INTO THE FLAT I USED TO LIVE IN WITH THESE TWO SILLY DOGS!!
(bECAUSE HE KNEW i LOVED THE DOGS AND TOOK THEM AND THEN IMMEDIATLEY GAVE THEM TO HIS DAUGHTER).
Suffice it to say, I didn’t get my dogs or my jewellry or my cash or my clothes and photos and computer and stuff back. Bu8t the good thing is I had already lost EVERYTHING ELSE at the hands of the P solictor, so he never got my home and assets.
Nor did he get my clean record, (eventually after he tried non stop for six months), my dignity or my reputation where it mattered.
What he did get, and i I must admit, was my sanity. Unfortunately for him, I am no longer the mild mannered clark Kentress of yesteryear. Rather, i am more like the incredible hulk with a passion to kill him that burns deeply within my soul.And should a p cross my path again it might just trigger the quick. But don’t worry folks, Oxy and I are working on that ..
arn’t we Oxy? lol!

Tilly

Oxy: N.B. I am definitely not up to the “NEW BEAU” stage!! But you GO GIRL!!!xoxoxoxoxoxo

Tilly

Fireflys:
You need to burn brightly and start reading the archives and all the various “personalities” here, each day. Eventually you will know for sure if he is “ONE” or not. And you will see that EVERYONE who has been a victim of a sociopath felt the feelings you are now feeling.
Read here EVERY DAY! This is the last port for us survivors! There is nowhere else to go but up and nothing else to do but get better once you understand what you are really dealing with. ALIENS EXIST and they come in the form od PSYCHOPATHS!!

Tilly

Matt:
Love the joke about Adonis! Sounds like you got your own Adonis NOW! MAKE THE MOST OF IT MATT! life is short…its Rosa’s and my turn to find our Adonis next.
Don’t for get there is a cyberparty here in November to celebrate one year NC. And that includes one year where we were strong enough not to hire a hitman to kill the bastards!! TOWANDA!!lol! xoxoxoxoxoxo

Tilly

Oxy:
Has he kissed you yet? Is he a good kisser??

lostingrief

well, i’ll be damned. just when you least expect it, the pathos decides to call. yup, he gave up 7 months ago and then today — i had a GREAT day — riiinnngggg….
hello? hey ___, it’s __! CLICK!!
riinnnggggg….
well, my heart was racing, so i called my girlfriend; he called back and left a rambling message? DON’T LISTEN TO IT, my friend shrieked! but i had to. i was so nervous and freaked out. and this is what i heard.
‘uh, well, i just wanted to tell you what’s going on, you know, i’m doing so great and really moving forward in leaps and bounds! i just got my masters — with a 4.0! — and i’m getting this certificate and that sponsorship and the other award AND i’m opening my own company and i have backers and funding because it is, of course, a totally unique concept that’s never been done before. and so, don’t call me back because there’s nothing i have to say to you and i hope you’re doing great too, since i’m doing so well, BUT you DON’T have to hang up on me. it’s just really STUPID because regardless of what happened between us, you shouldn’t want to hang up and anyway, THIS IS THE LAST TIME I’LL EVER CALL!
well, i’ve been laughing for about an hour now. he sounded like he was about 13. what a douche.
TOWANDA!!!!!!!!!

skylar

Lostingrief:
LOL!
You’re laughing – EXCELLENT. That’s the only way we should ever think of these fools, as clowns to laugh at.

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