Is every violent person a sociopath? Are all sociopaths violent? What is the relationship between violence and sociopathy/psychopathy? These are the questions we will think about here. I welcome your comments and stories.
In his book “On Aggression” Nobel Prize winning ethologist Konrad Lorenz expressed deep concern for the human race. He pointed out that other social animals have “releasers;” these are inborn signals that turn off aggression. For example, when wolves fight, if one animal turns over on its back, the fighting generally stops. The purpose of aggression in social species is simply to enforce dominance, so when the victor gets the signal it is dominant, the fighting stops.
Lorenz said screaming and crying act as releasers for humans as these tend to inhibit aggression. The problem for humans is that we have created weapons that enable aggression to occur at a distance so the natural releasers don’t have a chance to turn it off.
Yet we also know there are those who enjoy seeing other people suffer. In these individuals there is not only no mechanism to stop aggression, there is also a positive incentive toward violence. An extreme example of this is serial killers who seek out victims to enjoy the act of killing them. Some people are fascinated and mystified by the behavior of these serial killers, but actually the behavior is pretty simple to understand. I’ll explain it using two other pleasures with which you are familiar- eating and sex. These are two examples that illustrate the way the pleasure system works.
First, let’s consider eating. The purpose of eating is to nourish the body, but eating is also much more than that. Eating gives us pleasure and can even reduce anxiety. Why it is that eating feels good is likely connected to our need to overeat during times of plenty. Eating during times of plenty allows us to become fat and thus protected from famine. If eating stopped once the body was nourished, we couldn’t get fat. So to keep us eating more and more, Mother Nature made it an enjoyable act.
There are different was to get pleasure from eating. Foods that are sweet, sour, fatty, or meaty all stimulate different nerve cells. People also differ with respect to the pleasure associated with different tastes. Some people don’t like sweets very much and some people are repulsed by meat.
Now consider that sex is the same as eating in many ways. The “purpose” of sex is procreation, but it also strengthens social bonds, is pleasurable and reduces anxiety. We are prone to becoming “oversexed” just as we are prone to becoming obese. There are also different flavors of sexual pleasure.
The dominance system is another instinctive behavioral system just like the feeding and sex systems. The pleasures associated with the dominance system come in different “flavors.” One “flavor“ or pleasure associated with this system is winning at a competition. Whether the competition is a chess or baseball game, winning is a pleasure.
In social groups the dominant members are the “enforcers” as they get to administer rewards and punishments to others. Helping people can actually be a function/pleasure of the dominance system. Similarly, enjoyment of hurting others is also part of dominance. The alphas get to punish those who don’t do what they want and they take pleasure in inflicting this punishment.
What we see in some sociopaths is a type of “fetish” of the dominance system. Just like some people are excessively turned on sexually by underwear, some sociopaths are excessively turned on in the dominance sense by violence.
If you think about what I am saying you will see that there are two pathways to violence in sociopaths. The first is an immediate impulsive response to threats to their dominance. The second is a premeditated seeking out of the pleasure associated with hurting. Both of these occur and the presence of one correlates with the presence of the other because an over active dominance drive underlies both.
Lack of empathy is important to the development of the enjoyment of violence because a person who lacks emotional empathy, lacks the releaser Lorenz talked about so there is nothing to turn off the violence. But it is also possible that some sociopaths have a modicum of empathy that is drowned out by the pleasures of dominance.
The take home message for you is that if you are involved with a person who is preoccupied with dominance, control and manipulation you have to wonder what violence they are capable of. It is like the sexual pervert, you may only be seeing the tip of the iceberg. We just do not know how to pick out those sociopaths who lead secret lives in which they kill. If you know a sociopath who has a track record of violence, please assume the person is potentially very dangerous.
Psyche,
Good list.. and eye opening.. my last one fit into most all of it..
He was Mr. perfect, helping me and helping me put my house together and I thought what a helpful guy.. but then.. he was setting me up so that I felt he was the guy to lean on and he was setting me up to move in with me… he was months behind on the rent on the big house he was renting.. I didn’t find that out until he had moved in.
It crushed me..and he was oh, so sorry.. but never seemed to really understand the implications to me..
I asked why didn’t you move out of that place into a smaller one.. no answer. but too busy.. well, he wasn’t too busy to move in with me.. of course, I helped with his garage sell and everything else..
I told him I would’ve felt more loved if he had just rented a small apt and we dated for awhile.. his response, I would’ve moved back to Fla..
See never answered or acknowledged that his positioning to move in with me and his intense love then fidning out he was about to be evicted made me feel used..
We stayed together a year.. because he was only here on the weekends.. and we had fun pretty much on the weekends.. had he been here all the time, it wouldn’t have lasted but a month.
He had a lovely home, a gourmet cook.. and he did take me out lots but I felt used the whole time.. no matter how ‘helpful’ he was..
then when he was here alone.. and say I was working out.. I would get this creepy feeling.. like what is that man doing in my house.. it was all too fast and all too to contrived.. he contrived it for his purposes.. his mother was sick and died during this time.. it was too much going on.. I got caught in the spin.. man, can these people keep it spinning..
also, I love to watch Will and Grace before going to bed.. and will laugh out loud.
The first one that we watched.. he didn’t even ‘get’ it.. he was judging the Grace character instead of just enjoying the humor..
I respectfully disagree with this idea of “testing” people to see if they are authentic.
I don’t believe in “testing” people.
As far as I am concerned, anyone who is “testing” people to see if they are authentic needs to do more work on themselves.
What it tells me is that there is an inability to trust one’s own gut instincts.
Any healthy person who finds out they are being “tested” in a potential relationship situation is going to RUN (not walk) away from you so fast your head will spin.
You will never have a healthy relationship in your life…ever.
All you need to do is watch for the red flags that are explained on this site, establish firm boundaries, know who you are, and trust your own gut instincts.
You don’t need to play games to find out the truth about someone.
That’s the beautiful thing about life….the truth has a way of revealing itself on its own!
bulletproof,
I just wanted to repeat a saying i once heard ‘prey attracts the predator.’
I think people who have naturally high self esteem tend not to fall into the traps of a predator Spath – they have too strong a social network around them, and too strong a sense for their own boundaries and desires to be taken in by the subtle tricks that the Spaths play to lure us in. still, i think you’re right in that I see decent with strong self-esteem people being tricked and duped all the time by my former Spaths, just not to the degree that I was (I gave a LOT more than most people with strong self-esteem do, which is why the Spaths ‘loved’ me so much. Ew.)
i think we can love ourselves,but not know how to, and then that way, attract predators. i mean, i always thought I cared for myself, but i was amazed to see, in hindsight, how little i expected from any Spath/N in return for all that i gave. I would apologize for not giving them enough, they way they wanted things, etc. because it was all tied into my idea of myself as a ‘good person, who sacrifices her own needs for others.’ i was raised to be a ‘pleaser’ at all costs to myself. so i did have self respect, but for me, at least, it was for the idea I had about who i was. a person who was willing to suffer for the good of others. now, from where i sit, i would not call that self-esteem at all. there are times when suffering for others is okay, but as a way of life, no way.
anyway, bulletproof, from your post I suspect that you’re going to need time to heal. you’ll trust again when you’re ready and prepared to. not trusting is a form of protection that you probably need right now, as you get your bearings. it takes a lot of time, and patience with your own feelings. feelings pass, but for me, at least, i found that accepting my own right to have them helped ground me, after being worked by a number of Spaths and Ns, and having my life and spirit ripped to shreds.
you have every reason to feel wary and distrustful after all that you’ve experienced.
Wishing you the best,
Psyche
Hi Rosa,
thanks for disagreeing. I can see why a person might not want to test another. but can you explain for me what you think is ‘bad’ about it? is it that they seem manipulative to you?
for me, the tests clarified situations that i needed to understand better, to avoid further involvements with disordered people. for me, they were good things, that saved me from another round of abuse.
Psyche
Psyche:
For me, it’s completely unnecessary and counter-productive to resort to those types of tactics.
Do you not trust your own gut instincts when meeting someone?
Like I said, if you pull those “small exercises” that you mentioned in your 2:19 p.m. post on a healthy person, you will never have a healthy relationship in your life….ever.
Because a healthy person will not tolerate being tested in that manner.
To be completely honest, when I read your list of “tips” in the 2:19 p.m. post, I thought to myself, “Either this person has no ability to trust their own gut instincts, or this is an exercise on how sociopaths size up their dupes (inverted version for empaths).”
It’s insidious to use these types of tactics on someone, unbeknownst to the person.
For me, that’s a huge red flag.
If you are having doubts about someone’s character, I would advise putting a healthy distance between yourself and that person, as opposed to engaging in insidious mind games.
I don’t think that it as to be say a ‘planned’ test.. it is gut..
the first disagreement and how it is handled.. not going along all the time with what they want just to be nice.. that is all apart of compromise.. and what a relationship is..
I recall mine using every tactic to get me to do things that I was not wanting to do.. when I had had enough.. needed time to myself or wasn’t in the mood to help him clean up his old house and pack.. after I had just moved myself and had helped him do a garage sale.. I mean couldn’t the man be alone and do his won stuff..
I stayed home one day.. and he pouted.. not bad.. but it grossed me out.. I was exhausted after all I had done.. when was I important… I started seeing he wanted to control it all..
Bullet…I will give you an example. I recently met a guy SO much like my x…he even used the same “lines”. It was creepy. He texted me all day long….its uncanny. He was just like him. Only, this time, because my “standards” are higher..and I don’t feel that I NEED a man in my life…I immediately told him….”I feel very disrespected by that comment.” He turned it on me saying that I was “ms. Prissy” and I ended it all….told him “this isn’t working for me, take care.” Of course he continued to contact me. I ignored him.
SAME AS IT EVER WAS!!!
ONLY>>>THIS TIME…..I KNOW who I am….my standards of letting people into my world are MUCH HIGHER. No room for disordered people. They only end up taking and not giving…and then using you. (ie..moving in with you..etc.)
NEVER will I allow a man to move in with ME. He MUST have his own place and be settled…as I am…Period, the end. If anything, he should be inviting ME to move in with him…rentfree! lol
Because I LOVE who I am, TRUST in my instincts, DEMAND respect 100%, …..it shows that I have HIGH self esteem. Just because you are “feeling happy” doesn’t mean you are there.
Self esteem doesn’t stay the same in your life. It changes. My therapist taught me that. Mine was much higher at times…but when I met my xhusb and xbf….both times I was lonely, and feeling “fat” (even at 120lbs! lol) and that “noone would want me”.
So, when you feel CONFIDENT enough to be a “biotch” and feel that you are fine on your own….THATS when you find the right person. Not just because “things are going good” and you are happy.
Anyway, thats my take. I can smell a selfish manipulative person miles away….and I don’t want any part of them! Its MY turn to be treated properly and loved and cared about.
If you don’t adore me for who I am and treat me right…you’re not invited into my world.
THATS high self esteem…
Dear Heartsick,
As A person of Christian faith, I NOW see the Bible as a way to direct our behavior and thinking for a GOOD LIFE, but not in a way to make us door mats.
Fake Christians use the “turn the other cheek” routine, “so that I can hit you and you will take it”
Or the “women be in subservience jto your husbands” and they add “no matterf what the creep does to you.”
In fact, Jesus himself tells us to Know a “tree by its fruit.” In other words, use our good sense to look at what a person DOES to see what kind of person they are.
The apostle Paul tells us if we have “problems” with a brother (fellow christian) to talk to them, if they won’t listen, get witnesses, if that doesn’t work, go to the church with your concerns about this person’s behavior. THEN if they don’t correct ther problems then do not associate with them, not “even to eat with them.” That is a perfect description of NOCONTACT.
Justifiable anger is okay, Jesus was angry at injustice and wrong. He did say though to not let the sun go down uipon our wrath, which is bitter anger and vengeful anger, and that’s good advice for us.
Who ever started the UNTRUE rumor that Jesus is/was a WIMP is off base. Paul tells us to put on the entire armor of God, that’s what a soldier wears. We are not to “pick fights,” but we don’t have to bare our breasts and say “stab me” either.
Phyche and Rosa,
I think that Phyche is right on in that being ‘mindful’ of things that are fishy, or unacceptable to you, things you can apply to what’s happening NOW from what you have LEARNED (and yes maybe make a mental list) IS GOOD!
I think its a great ‘food for thought’ flag spotting list.
I think that some of us are further along the road than others maybe… trusting MYSELF and my instincts? … for all my blather I dont think I am completely there YET. I am doing better. So a ‘mindful’ list is good in a lot of ways…. not a ‘test per se…
But Rosa is right in that when you are at the point where you no longer have to re-learn stamped out ability to listen to your instincts or even learn to listen to them for the first time, game playing should not even be part of the equasion.
xxx