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By | May 24, 2010 129 Comments

Sex crimes and punishment

Stories in the newspaper yesterday were disheartening. After reading them, I had to conclude that full-blown sexual predators are everywhere, and doing something about them will be difficult.

The first story I found was about Canadian Col. Russell Williams, an elite pilot who was commander of Canadian Forces Base Trenton, the largest air force base in the country. In 2005 he was photographed with Queen Elizabeth II and Prince Phillip. On February 7, 2010, he was charged with murdering a young woman who had been missing for almost a week.

That’s not all. Williams, considered a “shining bright star” in the military, has been charged with the murder of two women, sexual assault of two other women, and 82 break-ins. What did he steal? Women’s panties. An Ottawa newspaper reported that police seized more than 500 pairs from his home.

The charges have shocked the Canadian military. Retired Major Greg McQuaid wrote reports that helped Williams get promoted. McQuaid’s observation, however, is telling:

“I remember he had a very focused stare or look, and I was just reminded of that when this happened and they showed the photos of him and I said, there’s that look. I remember that look. It was like he’s looking through you at the back of your head,” McQuaid said.

To read about this incredible story, click on these links:

Canada top commander charged with murder, assault, on Philly.com.

The secret life of Colonel Russell Williams, on Macleans.ca. This story discusses psychopaths at the end.

Another story in the Sunday paper was about another sexual predator in the Catholic Church—this one from Brazil. A Polish priest, Marcin Michael Strachanowski, is accused of sexually abusing a 16-year-old former altar boy, and then threatening to kill the youth if he spoke of it.

According to news reports:

Judge Alexandre Abrahao Dias said that investigators found “erotic material sent to the victim via Internet to seduce him” and that the priest also took other youths to the parish house, “which he converted into a kind of erotic dungeon where he submitted them, often with the use of handcuffs, to orgies.”

To read about this case, see:

Polish priest accused of running pedophile ”˜dungeon,’ in the Montreal Gazette.

Priest charge cites ”˜erotic dungeon,’ on Philly.com.

The Canadian colonel is being prosecuted. The priest has been arrested, and the diocese of Rio de Janeiro didn’t cover up the incident. It immediately suspended the priest and expressed regret over the alleged abuse.

These guys have been caught. Given the nature of their crimes, if proven guilty, they’ll probably go to prison for a long time.

Ten days ago, a sex offender in California, John Gardner III, was sentenced to life in prison for raping and murdering 17-year-old Chelsea King and 14-year-old Amber Dubois.

California lawmakers are now considering a bill, nicknamed Chelsea’s Law, that would mandate life sentences for some child molesters and lifetime parole for others. It’s a great idea—but it will cost a lot of money.

After the first 10 years, keeping the predators in jail would cost tens of millions of dollars, according to a California corrections department analysis. But the Legislative Analyst’s Office, which provides fiscal and policy analysis to the California Legislature, puts the cost much higher—at hundreds of millions of dollars.

Read the article here:

California bill aimed at molesters would cost millions, on Google.com.

Last week, Lovefraud reported that the Supreme Court upheld a law to keep sex offenders in jail after their sentences are served. People who commit crimes like these deserve to spend their lives in jail. But is our society willing to pay for it?

 

 


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Elizabeth Conley

“…is our society willing to pay for it?”

I can easily imagine a time when criminals are simply confined to a particular region with strong measures taken to police the borter of the “prison-community”.

I don’t think the idea is all that far-fetched. There are too many of them. Why shouldn’t dangerous criminals be made productive in their own “community”. Then their “community” can enjoy carefully regulated commercial contact with the outside world.

We need a plan that prevents criminals from sponging off of the rest of society for their entire lifetimes.

Buttons

Thank you for the article, Donna. This is where my feelings about the death penalty are muddied. NONE of these charged and/or convicted criminals will EVER be safe to release back into society. Therefore, they must be incarcerated for the rest of their natural lives if they aren’t put to death. And, apparently, none of these people have committed a crime horrific enough to warrant the death penalty. In consideration of this, it does cost a great deal of revenue to house, feed, clothe, medicate, and maintain these people behind bars. TOO much money.

I am perfectly willing to have my tax dollars allocated to send these THINGS to an inescapable island in the middle of the ocean to let them duke out supremacy between themselves. Whether they choose to murder one another or engage in cannibalism, I wouldn’t even want to know – just get them OUT of society.

Dear God in Heaven, it takes for some beautiful human being to be BRUTALLY murdered before we pass legislation to address the specific issue and name the new Law after the victim? I do not remember this kind of violence, as a child. Sure, my mom told me not to talk to strangers because they would HURT me, but this kind of thing has become so commonplace that I honetsly believe that Society has become desensitized to the sheer horror of these gruesome crimes.

As an aside – I know someone who works for a department of corrections. During one shift, this person was responsible for signing inmates in and out of the facility for court, surgeries, etc. “NEXT!” An inmate approaches the window and fills it up with enormous breasts. This inmate was 6’6″ and had huge, pendulous implants because……………………he was having a sex-change operation and would be transferred to a women’s prison once it was completed. THE STATE PAID for this!

one/joy_step_at_a_time

Hi Donna,
they ARE damn well everywhere. I sent you the latest update on ryan earl mccann…he’ll end up spending about 6 years total in jail for what he did.

i think that one of our problems is that the ‘prison industrial complex’ is being fueled by draconian criminal laws. We are moving toward more laws and therefore more criminals and need for more or worse LARGER prisons in Canada. My argument is that we need to look at what we make criminal and how we apply the laws we have in light of the most recent understanding of dangerous behaviour and its likely trajectory over a person’s lifetime.

however, the prison systems are not particularly up to date and the most recent understandings and studies are not going to be embraced – it takes years to change the culture of a huge industry.

personally, i think we have (in NA, and especially in the US) jailed entirely too many people in relation to minor drug related offenses, and don’t do a good enough job of dealing with sexual predators of all stripes. we don’t yet recognize them for what they are, and what havoc they wreak in society.

about the death penalty – i am still working this one through for myself. i don’t see it used as a ‘penalty’, but as a protection device for society. if we envision prison sentences to be used in the same way, this will change how the prison system operates, and who is put away and for how long.

in relation to my statement about ‘minor drug offences’ and who we want to spend out precious money on putting away – i hate what drugs can do in people’s lives. i don’t condone the large scale sale or manufacture of drugs, and am more than disturbed by all the violence in operation of the drug business. BUT, where do we want to spend our money? Who is most dangerous in our societies? Who costs us the most in ‘collateral damage?’ Who warps and perverts our societies the most?

it really comes down to what our values are, and what we are willing to stand up for – from how we interact in our communities and families to WHO WE VOTE FOR.

Ox Drover

Well, let me put the question the other way round. If we DON’T PAY to incarcerate these individuals then what is the PRICE WE PAY IN SOCIETY?

How many deaths that other wise wouldn’t have happened if they had been incarcerated?

How many children born to them would be born if they were let out that wouldn’t have been born if they were incarcerated? (We know those children will also be at riskk of being in the welfare care system because the Ps aren’t going to care for them)

How many women and victims will have PTSD and trauma from rape and abuse that will either get SSD and state-paid-for mental health care that in these men were not able to do these crimes because of being incarcerat4ed?

How about salaries of cops that would have to investigate these new crimes that would not be committed if these offenders were locked up and couldn’t commit them?

Dr. Anna Salter, who is one of the world recognized authorities on pedophilia says that on average each convictiion is the only one of 300+ actual crimes that the perp has actually committed before he gets caught the FIRST TIME. Blogger T tells us that most of the sex crimes convicts are NOT RECONVICTED, which does to me NOT mean they quit their sexual crimes, but sinply that they have gotten BETTER at hiding it.

If you look at a lot of the stories of the priests who were caught, “counseled” and then moved, didn’t MOST OF THEM RECOMMIT CRIMES and sometimes get moved again and again?

That priest that Brizal arrested recently had been HARBOURED by the Vatican LONG after it was REASONABLY KNOWN HE WAS GUILTY and in my mind would still be being harbored if the Pope hadn’t been implicated in earlier cover ups when he was a Bishop. In order not bring down the whole house of cards covering up things, they “had” to finally get REAL and turn the guy over instead of harboring him longer.

I’m not Catholic and I’m not “anti-catholic” and sure not “anti-religtion” but I am ANTI-LIES AND COVER UPS.

There are blogs on the new if you look for them about the Southe4rn Baptist Convention’s (SBC) cover ups of KNOWN AND REPEAT ministers who raped children and other church members.

All the while, these “holy men” use the “Pontius Pilot” method of washing their hands of the blame in public but doing NOTHING to stop the emotional and sexual crucifiction of innocents in the name of protecting the “establishment” of the church!

The city of Sodom had nothing on our society today I think, and it wasn’t “just” about there being a large population of homosexuals (although there may have been that as well) it was about people being USED for SEXUAL purposes like OBJECTS.

WHO, please enlighten me, USES other people for SEXUAL OBJECTS for their own gratification and have no concern for what it does to the OBJECT so used? Could the answer be PSYCHOPATHS? No conscience? No remorse? No guilt? No concern?

Doesn’t make any difference it it is a “homosexual” Psychopath, or a “bi-sexual” psychoplath, or a “hetrosexual” psychopath, it is the fact that they feel entitled and are WILLING to use others (even children) for their PERVERTED sexual pleasure that spreads injury and disease and e4motional trauma that is the “gift that keeps on giving” and lasts a life time!

If you robbed a bank and I covered sit up or knowingly hid you in my house so the cops couldn’t find you, I would be an ACCOMPLACE after the fact and I would go to JAIL for doing it.

SO, why do these people who FAIL TO CALL THE COPS when they know that someone has possibly or probably committed RAPE OF A CHILD not go to prison as accompliaces?

Are there ANY crimes in our socxiety today that are so bad that they would take you out of the community FOREVER?

Rape of a child but not killikng them? No.

Rape of many children but not killing them? No.

Rape of an adult with violence but not killing them? No.

Robbing and beating up a store clerk severely but not killing them? No

A drive by shooting that puts a 5 year old in a coma for life, but she’s “alive?” No that’s not bad enough.

Caslifornia has the MOST STRICT 3 strikes you are out law, and it is being attacked now because it has been used to put MINOR non-violent people (several hundred of them) in prison for LIFE, while at the same time, the above criminals are going BACK OUT INTO SOCIETY. Where does it end?

Where do the criminal’s rights stop (sex change operations LOL????) and the public’s sright to walk the streets safely?

I’m not pro-drugs at all, it makes crack babies and waring factions that out gun the cops and drugs are still FREELY AVAILABLE, so why not legalize them and put the violent criminals in pr44ison for life with the money saved trying VAINLY to slow down the drug trade. It didn’t work with whiskey and it AIN’T GONNA work with any other kind of drugs. IT JUST KEEPS THE PROFIT UP AND THE PRICE UP.

More people die of car wrecks with drunk drivers than die from drugs each year alcohol causes all kinds of problems and only 10% of the people who “drink” buy 90% of the volume of alcohol. It would be the same way I think if you legalized drugs, but arrested those who drive drunk or high, use drugs and while preg. Use themoney WASTED now on stopping drugs for TREATMENT of users and those that continually drive drunk or abuse their kids because of drugts, put THEM behind bars forever.

Actualloy, maybe I’lm just a nutty old woman, but what we are doing NOW sure AIN’T WORKING to make our country either better or safer or cut down on drug use or crack babies born.

GettingIt

I only have one suggestion: Gulags
Have prisoners Work. What a novel idea. Have them work for their food, have them work for their shelter, have them work for books and for clothes, have them work for society. Jail system in US is a joke. My friend’s Dad actually took “Sabbatical” there, every time he got DWI. He actually called it that. He worked out, read and ate well. Prisons are to take away freedom, not to give a free meal.

GettingIt

I am no psychopath, but I was raised with “an eye for an eye” attitude and I do believe this to be an effective method of dealing with direct offenders. Those who offended most of us did it in the most cruel fashion – by cheating, lying, conning, manipulating and destroying. Why should society keep providing for such animals? These should be placed in solitary confinement and they must work. Ha! I can see my Ex in solitary AND working. That’d be a just payback.

one/joy_step_at_a_time

oxy – NICE rant! (only here on lf could two such words be put together in a sentence)….

and I firmly believe that the reason we don’t focus on the damn car deaths, and do focus on this stupid war on drugs is that it is a form of flinging red herrings about. pretending, on a political level, to do something about the bogey man, and not doing something about the guy that lives next door to the judge with the DWI. think it is VERY much a hidden/not so hidden war that is about race and class and not about freaking drugs at all.

we’ve go the same damn thing starting to happen here with our conservative whack job of a prime minister…mr big on crime, who really wants us all to look a the rabbit coming out of the hat so that we avoid hearing the lies coming out of his mouth.

silvermoon

California got it right. Three strikes, you’re out.

The third time, its no accident you were in the wrong place at the wrong time doing the wrong thing.

If mine had been there when this happened, he’d be OUT.

Where he is he will be released. Who gets him next and next?

Something I am sure would have been prevented if he was caught in CA!

In fact, I half wonder if he doesn’t have issues there still. He absolutely refused to go there….

Ox Drover

Dear Getting it,

After 20+ years “association with” prison systems in Texas and Florida, it does seem that a prison sentence is “sabbatical” and my P-son calls solitary confinement a “meditation vacation”—and he has had plenty of experinence in solitary confinement, at least 19 times for up to 3 months at a time, as well as severl months-at-a-time “super max” time, 23 hours a day in a 2 man cell.

Working in prison is a joke most of the time, though there are “hoe squads” on the prison farms in texas and Arkansas where they go out like slaves and chop the ground and/or crops with hoes while the “boss man” rides along on a horse with a shot gun watching them working and keeping them in line while the sun beats down on their backs like a heat gun. South Texas and south Arkansas are murder in the summer I can vouch for that!

Louisiana also has a pretty brutal prison system and Mississippi is no cake walk, not sure about the others that don’t have “prison farms”—but I know that my son has conned the system most of the 20 years he has been there, theough a couple of years back when he got caught with a cell phone in his cell (a felony but they didn’t prosecute him for it as they couldn’t find the sim chip) he pithed them off and they made him chop the hoe squad for a while (I saw him with some healing 2nd degree sun burns on his bald head) but he got out of the worst of it because he knows how to work the SYSTEM in there, 20+ years of practice and he’s an expert at it.

For years he had a job as a barber or on the paint squad but some how he managed to never actually do the work. Then for other years he spent ALL his time 16 hours a day in the craft shop making cowboy boots he sold for hundreds of dollars a pair—he got really good at it. But, the reason he could be in the craft shop was his mommie (me!) sent him enough money to buy into the shop, then after that he stayed in there until he got caught with contraband and sent to solitary and his stuff shipped out and his craft shop priviledges I think permanaently denied. He used to have a job teaching computer classes til he got caught with DVD porno contraband and permanently denied any where near an office or a computer. He also go caught using an office phone line illegally once when he worked in the kitchen as a clerk, and sent to solitary for that one.

Nothing seems to deter him for long though. But I no longer visit or correspoond with him any more so have no idea what he is into now. but I can BET you a buck to a coke that it is illegal, immoral and involves conning someone for something.

Seems like the inmates do have more rights than the citizens. The only thing that makes me scared about it all is that 99% of all the people in prison today WILL EVENTUALLY GET BACK OUT on the street. “It ain’t made them no better! That’s fer sure!”

Ox Drover

Deara Silver,

I agree with the 3-strikes—that said—there is a back lash in CA right now because some DAs are putting some guy away for 3-strikes on 3 minor-NON-violent crimes, rather than just the REAL bad guys with violent crap. The way it is SUPPOSED to work is 1 crime= X perioid of tiem for THAT level of crime, 2nd crime=2X the “price” of that crime, and 3rd MAJOR crime=life WITHOUT parole. Some DAs were putting a guy away for 3 shop lift crimes, which IS crazy. But look at that creep that took the photos of Dr. Leedom, RAPE and out in only a few years.

When I was growing up VIOLENT RAPE WAS A MAJOR CRIME, but today it doesn’t seem to be doodly crap! And, yea, I know there are “levels” of rape but they keep coming up with all this crap that JUST “rape” or JUST child rape shouldn’t put you in the slammer for life! They also say that “well if we make it a hanging offense, it will make the guy more likely to kill her/him”—-if that’s a good enough reason let’s just make armed robbery NO CRIME at all cause it might make them want to shoot the store clerk if there is a penalty to it.

My way of thinking is that ANY violence with ANY weapon from an Uzi to a paper clip to bare fists should be PUNISHABLE by some serious consequences. ANY “stranger rape with violence” (is there any other kind of stranger rape?) should be automatic life without parole—in other words, you break into someone’s house, grab them off the street, etc. is automatic life without parole. If you pick someone up you know and rape them, then you MIGHT get a chance at parole after 15 years.

Kid rape or “consensual sex” of adult with a kid, say under 12 to 14, NO CHANCE AT PAROLE EVER, over age 14, then after 15 yrs in prison chance for parole.

You thinkk “Judge Judy” tells them like it is, how would you like to come up before the “Judge Oxy?” LOL

Thanks One step, glad you liked my rant! I’ve been on a roll today! Politics and crooked politicos have me ticked off today, to say nothing of a zillion gallons of OIL spewing into our ocean and “Rome Burns” and the ecology of the entire ocean goes down the tubes while the “fiddling” goes on.

Buttons

This is an awesome discussion – everyone has put so much thought into their posts and I don’t know if there IS an answer, at the present time.

OxD, I’m with you on your rant! What DOES qualify as something heinous enough to warrant the death penalty? New Jersey has the death penalty in place, has convicted and sentenced to death violent criminals, and guess how many of these people have been euthanized? ZIP. NONE. NADA. ZERO. So, what’s the point of having the death penalty, at all?

This is not to say that I am bloodthirsty, but taking the lives of human beings after using them in whatever fashion is, in my humble opinion, deserving of SOMEthing.

The couple that was convicted of raping the underaged high school girl: man faces 30 years; woman faces 3-5 years. And, neither of these sick f*cks are saying, “Yes, I did this and it was wrong.” They’re STILL defending their actions as acceptable because, “…she was a…Party Girl…” Are you KIDDING ME??????

I joke about Spath Island, but there is a deep part of Buttons believes that it SHOULD be possible.

Spath Island. Drop them off with a bag full of produce seeds, 2 pigs, and some sunscreen. LEAVE THEM all on the island to fight it out amongst themselves, NEVER to drop off more supplies, medicines, etc. Let them sort it out and develop their own spathsociety without any hope or possibility of ever, ever, EVER escaping from the island. And, just to make sure that one doesn’t (Jurassic Park), have a couple of ships a couple of miles offshore to blow an escapee out of the water so that they can’t re-infect society.

Does anyone else believe that our current society is being LED by marketing/advertising, media, etc??? Where did all of this rampant spathy come from????

Quantum Solace

These are all tragic stories and, sadly, not only are there many more where those came from but even more that actually get away with it. However, where do we draw the line? The way to hell is paved with good intentions and this is a perfect example of it. This is the kind of thing that quickly takes on roots and becomes a crusade, a witchhunt, destroying far many lives than it saves. Should we have a flashback to the 80s and the California sex scandals in the daycares? Should I remind anyone how well that ended and how many innocent people were falsely accused, tried, convincted, wrongly imprisoned and their lives utterly destroyed? Just this morning I was listening to one such recent case (can’t remember the jurisdiction though) of a female school teacher who was accused of sexual molestation. Not only was he tried and convincted but she also lost her home, her career and, most importantly, custody of her children, along with her freedom. When it was all said and done, she was exonerated of all charges. Yeah, I’m sure that there are many who would advocate that this is small potatoes in comparison to the ones that could be “saved” – To those, however, I start by saying: abolish the Catholic Church and you’ll probably do away with 50% of all the sex predators out there today.

People only take sex crimes seriously when there’s a child victim, or an extremely brutal adult rape. This plays into the hand of most sexual predators, who groom victims into a relationship and then do their damage, as another Lovefraud post showed.

If you use grooming against an adult victim, then the criminal justice system won’t recognize a subsequent sex assault as rape. Sure, there are laws against date and marital rape, but law enforcement, prosecutors, juries, and judges are people, and when they believe rape myths, only sex crimes featuring kids or violence (or both) get anywhere in the justice system.

The absolute best place for sex predators of adults to find their victims is in a relationship. An eighth of married women have been raped by their husbands and the rate of sexual assault of “girlfriends” is similar. Parents can’t file restraining orders on behalf of their grown children, something which also plays into the hands of the sociopathic predator.

I believe that if you are going to have Jessica’s and Chelsea’ s Laws, they must be expanded to include adult victims, not just child victims. If the rape of a child carries 25 to life, rape of an adult victim must carry 15 to life. If you rape a woman who has been raped as a child, then since it’s revictimization of a person that was revictimized as a child, it should be punished as an extension of CSA.

In addition, not all sexual predators CAN be locked behind bars. The man who chats up women who have been abused or have other issues in their past to get in their pants is just as much a predator as the same man who does that to teenage girls, yet because their adults, “they should have known better.” Serial sexual harassers can be sued, but not arrested unless they are in a fiduciary or custodial relationship to their victims.

Wini

brian92680, it’s time the media as well as the rest of society take executions of these predators that prey on the rest of us seriously. No more closed executions and then reporters broadcast that so and so was executed on schedule at such and such a time, this is what they had for their last meal, this is what their last words were, this is who they talked to. SHOW US! What does anyone get seeing the hearse take the low life’s body away after they were executed? Time to show everyone in the USA … live, on TV … have them videoed for their last week of life. Show who they talk to, broadcast live what they are saying, what they think now that they got caught and only have a few more breaths to take down on earth. Show society the executions of these lawless creatures. Then and only then when the rest of these predators see what their fate eventually will be if they keep preying on society will be the only way we can curtail this evil. Want to play predator and think you’ll never be caught. Send them back to God and let Him judge them the way it was written.

After said executions, we should televise public opinions via panel discussions with the victims, legal system and the general public.

Why should any of these perverts care … they’ve never witnessed a live execution … and it’s obvious they don’t have their own minds to discern right from wrong … a who cares attitude. We have to stop thinking predators have this moral compass built in them. They don’t. So, let’s show them what their end could be if they don’t straighten up and fly right.

I believe if people saw live executions today of our predators on death row …more of these criminal mentalities walking free among us would naturally think twice about preying on law abiding citizens and breaking the law that binds us. What clearer picture could anyone get than to see public executions … live coming into your living space. It will send clear and precise message that our citizens are nothing to play with if you decide to live in a perverted way.

Ox Drover

Great thought behind those posts, Brian, Solace and Buttons….even the 3-strikes law in california is being used to put away for life without petty crimnals. I totally support the 3-strikes law, but not for 3 misdermeanors.

Part of the problem is the DAs have too much power to either prosecute or not, or plea bargain things down. Get the perp to cop to a C- crime when they could have been prosecuted for an A+ crime, BUT IN A COURT. We are by law supposed to get a JURY trial, but the “let’s make a deal” poker-bluff way our courts are actually run is NOT JUSTICE.

The PEOPLE don’t get their day in court to get justice for the PEOPLE, the convict takes a reduced plea and sentence and DEPRIVES the People of THEIR JUSTICE. The DA is still “hard on crime” when he run for reelection, and everyone except the public WINS and goes home happy.

Ox Drover

Wni, it has unfortunately been proven that even public executions as horrific as crucifiction were viewed as ENTERRTAINMENT specticles rather than a deterent to crime.

Public hanging actually had a “script” that was played by and most of the time even the person being hung would play along with the event, standing up and telling everyone in the crowd that they had been lead to the scaffold by “wild women and booze” and advising others to give up wild women and whiskey. There would be public and very rowdy and roucous gathrings at the creek to baptize the “guest of honor” at these parties.

In England when all execution was done publicly and the poor victim was dragged through the streets on a sled, head down, over the cobblestones, then hung until almost dead, then cut down, disemboweled, then while still living the body set on fire, then cut into 4 pieces plus the head and the pieces displayed until they rotted down, it still did not deter crimes.

Transportation to Australia which WAS horrible did not deter crime, so it got to the point that stealing a handkerchief was a transportation ticket, and if you stole 2 handkerchiefs you were hung (just til dead) so the prosecutors over there then would plead two handkerchiefs down to 1 and transport the poor person, But NONE of this detered crime.

Besides, don’t we kinow that psychopaths are NOT detered by fear? Especially of fear of getting caught, they are too smart, THEY THINK. I WISH public hanging would work to deter crime, but All the studies have shown it doesn’t.

AND, as far as capitol punishment goes, I don’t trust the justice system (that’s an oxymoron if ever there was one) to weed out the TRULY I9NNOCENT. Look how many people have been proven innocent decades later with DNA!

I can’t even imagine hanging ONE innocent person per decade, and it’s gonna happen a lot more frequently than that. A guy was just released recently after 35 years in prison for a Rape he did not do. What if he had been executed?

The various law schools that are running “Innocence projects” and using good evidence (not just technicalities) are PROVING INNOCENCE on these unjustly convicted men and women who would otherwise die in prison.

We’ve got some here in Arkan sas now, been in prison forf 17 years and one of them on death row that I, and lots of others, think were rail roaded and are totally innocent. There is DNA that someone else is the killer (the step father of one of the dead kids) How can you make it up to someone if you KILL them for a crime they didn’t commit?

The Gulag might be a good idea for prisons for VIOLENT criminals, but like one poster pointed out, a lot of violence is done emotionally or psychologically rather than physically.

No “right” answer I don’t think, only better or worse. But educating ourselves against the “psychopath next door” or IN OUR HOMES is the best thing we can do. Then NO CONTACT.

Wini

Oxy, proven by whom? Who did the surveys? Bleeding hearts that never were violated in their lives? Give me a break with the wishy washy mindsets in this country that never had crime touch them in their lives. Even the president’s wife, when accosted by criminals getting out of her chaufered limo one night in DC started the campaign “just say no to drugs”. That went over big, NOT!

As far as public executions, I never said that. I said to broadcast executions live to your TV sets at home. Not in the public square so folks can be entertained or make a public spectacle or mockery of the situation. Also, I know many have been railroaded and DNA must be the final fact proving factor of guilt. Finally, why isn’t the public screaming that these prosecutors and others who locked up innocent folks need to take their place in prison for the same amount of years they locked up an innocent person? Our country has rid itself of all/any checks and balances to ensure people in position of power do their jobs to the best of their ability, not just collect a paycheck and get recognition to sell their books.

We can debate this issue forever … and still, executions do take place in our country … so why not broadcast it to see if crime subsides.

Ox Drover

Wini, our KIDS see so much “blood and gore” on TV right now that LOOKS SO REAL, how would a film of sticking a needle in the arm of a guy who then goes “peacefully” to sleep on a table DETER anyone from murder or violence? Besides in a supposedly just way (I don’t think it is) the guy is kept in prison for DECADES before he is actually “put to sleep painlessly” so that’s not going to deter anyone either. If it WOULD I would be for going back to turning them loose in the arena with lions set on them like Rome did, or crucifying them like the Romans did, but don’t think it works real good as a deterent. Sorry.

Wini

Oxy, that’s the problem, fools do imitate what they see today on TV/movies and have no clue there are penalties to their actions. The show or movie is over … and all is well with how it ended (good or bad) … action/cut … it’s make believe. Broadcasting executions shows the viewer the real penalty for taking someone’s life … taping them a week prior to their demise, getting their reactions, who they talked with (family/friends/loved ones) … film what these people’s reactions are to what is about to happen. The aftermath discussions from viewers, staff in the system, victims, family/friends of the deceased.

Big difference between TV/movies/books than the real deal affects of life and the devastation these people created living recklessly.

Besides, children are too young to view these executions, put them to bed early and allow them to view them when they are old enough to do so.

libelle

Dear Wini, I have to second Oxy on this. It was a weird feeling when I learned that when I did anesthesia I basically used the same ingredients that are used for “death by poison injection” (well we do not use potassium to stop the heart, and of course we do intubate and ventilate the patient afterwards) No wonder people are so afraid of operations.

Basically the audience would see the initial actions of anesthesia, performed by not so trained people ( I have seen once a documentary on death penalty years ago). And the ordinary public would not watch the whole pre- and after-talks, I assume (at least not the ones who SHOULD!)

In the internet on youtube you can already find lots of videos, also with the more “exciting” electric chair, including reactions of all the involved, talks and the like! And so far it did not deter people from crime! (I fear it will be the ultimate excitement of a N/P/S!)

Splatterfilms or “Chainsaw massacre”-type films are far more impressive! Or the videogames where you can EXECUTE PEOPLE YOURSELF and get winning points! It is all so sick! And usually people do not discern between “the real” and “fake”.

I personally am against the death penalty, but I am for locking them away for good if there is no chance of rehabilitation.

Hopeforjoy

Wini,

Watching an execution on T.V. would be too much for me personally. It’s like those people who watch ‘Faces of Death’, real deaths that were taped. It’s just too gruesome. I couldn’t even be a witness to an execution at a prison. Taking a life is ultimate and final. DNA is 99.9% acurate, but there’s always a ‘what if?’. Innocent people have been executed before there was DNA testing, what if it were someone you cared about?

Anyway, I do appreciate your point of view and respect the right of your opinion. I think I’m in the minority. That’s okay.

Wini, I believe that there are other ways to deter predators without public executions. Most of us are frustrated with sociopathic predators, but once we go down the road of public executions, we fall into the same abyss that the sociopath does.

I think existing concepts and laws, used in different ways, can incapacitate sociopaths. Earlier, I said that there needs to be not just tougher laws, but tougher enforcement of existing laws.

GettingIt

On Punishment: My dog stole food off the table today. The moment the dog saw me, he ran (fear, knowing he’d done a Bad thing, because some of the food was still on the floor). I caught up, scolded him and confined him to his crate. 15 min later I let the dog out. You know, the first thing he did was to come near me, sit in front, bow his head and lick my hand. My dog felt REMORSE. There were no treats in my hand, I was merely ignoring it at that point. A f$*#& dog has more sense of remorse than a P – punished or not.
FYI – I love my dog and would never hurt it. I would not hurt a dog I didn’t love. Not so true with this other animal I discovered calls itself human.

ErinBrock

GettingIt:
I laughed at your post….because I had the vision of my puppy Holly doing the same thing.
I don’t even know she’s done something wrong….and when I lay my eyes on her…she narks herself off….before I see the trouble she’s found.
She’s got the bowed head and the slink and pulled back ears…..
THEN I know I need to look around.
HAHA!

Your right about animal instincts…..and sense of remorse….in regards to a Cluster B…..so right!!

I’ll take my Holly golly ANY TIME!!!!! Slinky or not!

Good post.

Ox Drover

Dear Getting it,

Your average dog has a conscience and a sense of justice, the psychopath doesn’t. Experiments have proven that dogs have a sense of justice and fairness. The psychopath doesn’t have that sense of justice or fairness.

There ARE dogs who are “psychopathic” just as there are dogs who are not (the majority!)

At least with the dogs that are psychopathic we can put them down or keep ourselvbes safe from them. Not so with the psychopaths because our “laws” grant them the same safeguards that it grants to non-psychopathic humans. It’s a shame. There are some of us though, that have learned the difference between psychopathic human-clones and real humans, so all we can do is to keep our individual selves as safe as possible by NC as much as possible.

There have always been evil humans and always will be I guess. My opinion though is tht we are here on a spiritual journey so this is not ALL of what there is here on earth. I trust that there will be more later and that real justice will prevail. So as much as I feel anger at injustice, all I can do is to fix myself, my own soul, and do what I can do, and leave the rest to God/the universe.

ErinBrock

Update on James Biela trial.

Prosecution rested yesterday. Defense only called ONE witness……and rested today!

SHOCKING! ONLY ONE WITNESS…..he was a DNA expert who got paid $1800.00 a day to be in court and testify.

Unfortunately for the defense, the prosecution DEMOLISHED their witness.
Just demolished him! Witness refused to look over at jury during cross and had the look of I’m gonna kick your ass if you keep embarrasing me to prosecuter.
He was subtly combative and refused to answer some questions.
Did a lot of tango in the courtroom…..and NOT very good!!!!
It was a shock when defense rested after this witness.

There were over 100 witness’s listed to testify and prosecution called over 50…..so everyone expected defense to put uyp a pretty good smoke screen and drag it out…..
At one point it looked like they were going to try and pin it on the father or brother….and I’m sure his 4 year old son if anyone would buy that……due to DNA matches.

Judge asked defendent JAMES BIELA this morning if he planned on testifying on his own behalf….and read him his rights and explained that prosecution could cross him…..
he said he wanted to testify, but his attornies had advised him against taking stand. Judge asked if he understood and he answered ‘I GUESS”. The judge wasn’t satisfied with this answer and said I want to make sure your clear on your rights….yadayada…..and have you had enough time with your attorneis to discuss your options and rights…..
Biela said………”yes, I guess I will not take the stand’.

I’m wondering if the evidence is so clear cut……and there is really NO defense……now the defense is setting themselves up for incompetant representation….because he’s facing death penalty.

Tomorrow is closing arguments…..and I don’t think the jury will be deliberating for long…..at all!

We will see…….

You can see the closing arguments on the internet on RenoGazetteJournal or KOLO tv tomorrow starting at 10am Pacific.

Ox Drover

Dear Erin,

Many times the defense will call NO witnesses, hoping that the state has not “proven” their case. That’s funny about the DNA “expert’s” testimony. It is kind of hard to knock down DNA evidence but I guess they figured they didn’t have much of a chance to do anything else.

I have NO doubt that APPEAL (automatic in death cases at least–and paid for by the state I imagine as well) will say the attorneys were not adequate and/or that he didn’t understand his rights “I guess…” LOL

Wonder how long the jury will be out? Three hours? Less? Life w/o parole? Death? Any bets? Wanna get up a “pool?”

ErinBrock

I’m in for $100 buck GUILTY on ALL counts.

I’d give him the DP…..but I’m not so sure this Jury will.
I guess that’s a toss up…..and 12 peeps must be in agreeance…..if the jurors were LF posters……he wouldn’t be handed the DP……I don’t think we could all agree….it’s a mix.
(no judgement, just an observation).

ANother $100 bucks that if it goes to Jury by Lunch….they will have a verdict by 5pm and trial will be wrapped by TOMORROW eve. (I guess)….. 🙂

Ox Drover

Dear ErinB,

He deserves to DIE by being kicked to death by Fat and Hairy, but it isn’t like there isn’t conclusive DNA evidence he did it…BUT the thing Is I have had to REVISE my own death penalty leanings because of the ones who were INNOCENT (really didn’t do it, that got off 10-20-35 years later by DNA proving they were INNOCENT)

So if I could fry one that “looked guilty” like the West Memphis three did 17 years ago ( I didn’t watch it too close or I would have seen then what was going on, a WITCH HUNT!) then I would have to agree to fry them all, and I just can’t do that any moe. BUT I do go for LIFE WITHOUT PAROLE fror any serious violence, rape, child molestation, drunk driving, weapons (gun, knife, paper clip) and repeat felony. Hell I am for Driving while drunk as murder if someone is killed–life!

I think you are right though, court over before supper and guilty on all counts. Do they have to do a separate trial for the sentencing?

Nolife

Hi all,

Do the prisoner not work? I know they are not easy to manage but surely they are able to work and make a living too.

We have factories where prisoners are sent to work everyday. Their salary will be contributed to the expenses of keeping them in jail. How ironic. Makes people think twice before committing a crime.

I do question the ten or hundreds of millions spent, are they transparent about their account book?

ErinBrock

No life:
Our system is a MESS…..we cut costs to spend more!

We all need a system of which makes society think twice about the consequences…….Harsh and swift consequences…..whatever they may be!!!!

Wini

Brian, Oxy, Hopeforjoy, Libelle and all, here are some of the scriptures which back what I wrote earlier.

Deuteronomy 19:10 That innocent blood be not shed in thy land, which the LORD thy God giveth thee [for] an inheritance, and [so] blood be upon thee.

Deuteronomy 19:11 But if any man hate his neighbour, and lie in wait for him, and rise up against him, and smite him mortally that he die, and fleeth into one of these cities:

Deuteronomy 19:12 Then the elders of his city shall send and fetch him thence, and deliver him into the hand of the avenger of blood, that he may die.

Deuteronomy 19:13 Thine eye shall not pity him, but thou shalt put away [the guilt of] innocent blood from Israel, that it may go well with thee.

Deuteronomy 19:15 One witness shall not rise up against a man for any iniquity, or for any sin, in any sin that he sinneth: at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established.

Deuteronomy 19:16 If a false witness rise up against any man to testify against him [that which is] wrong;

Deuteronomy 19:17 Then both the men, between whom the controversy [is], shall stand before the LORD, before the priests and the judges, which shall be in those days;

Deuteronomy 19:18 And the judges shall make diligent inquisition: and, behold, [if] the witness [be] a false witness, [and] hath testified falsely against his brother;

Deuteronomy 19:19 Then shall ye do unto him, as he had thought to have done unto his brother: so shalt thou put the evil away from among you.

Deuteronomy 19:20 And those which remain shall hear, and fear, and shall henceforth commit no more any such evil among you.

Deuteronomy 19:21 And thine eye shall not pity; [but] life [shall go] for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot.

Pay close attention to 19:20, our Lord telling us to have everyone witness the execution of an evil person so no more will commit evil.

Nicolaid

I know this idea is a taboo here, but many women are attracted to psychopaths – there is massive anecdotal evidence and some scientific evidence too. It’s not so much that psychopaths are manipulative (I know they are), but if you add this sexual attraction of so many women for psychopathic traits in a society where female choice has more impact than in traditional societies, it’s easy to understand why some wonder whether psychopathy is not being selected for, and hence, on the rise, despite the massive investments in security. Prisons are now a huge business.

I believe the only possible way to decrease the prevalence of psychopathy is to make people accountable for the crimes of the mate they choose to have a child with.

blueskies

Nicolaid – I hope you dont mind me saying that I think thats a bit black and white…I dont think you can boil things down so far….
I will have a go at boiling down a response: You could say that many women (and men) are attracted to familiar roles for them selves….and involvement with certain familiar types (who tend to like of the sex) perpetuates the problem?

shana31

Nicolaid—Are you serious?? “I believe the only possible way to decrease the prevalence of psychopathy is to make people accountable for the crimes of the mate they choose to have a child with.” Sorry, I find that a little hard to swallow.

I don’t think it’s that women are attracted to psychopaths, per se. I see it as a kind of vicious circle. A woman can be cool, confident, on the up and up, can have it going on, but may harbor a bit of doubt or insecurity somehow, somewhere in her life. She meets a man (ahem, psychopath) who hones in on this insecurity, makes her feel beautiful where she is smart, makes her feel smart where she is beautiful, will build her confidence, only to tear it down in the end. Did she see it coming? No. Did she say Oh, look, here’s a psychopath, let me fall in love with him? Of course not.
Could this said woman use lessons in believing in herself to the fullest extent? Sure. Kind of sucks when you do the work on yourself, feel like you’re on the right track, become the woman that you feel would be attractive to the kind of man you are looking for, a woman you can be proud of at the end of the day just to meet said psychopath.
Start over again from square one.

Buttons

Women, just as men, are attracted to the FANTASY that is generated by the spath – the romance, the whirlwind courtship, the promises, being made to feel “valued.” The inflitration of the spath into people’s lives is insidious – sly – cunning – manipulative.

As Donna has pointed out, the “attraction” is based on a lie – fabrication – deceit – false personna. They MIRROR the good qualities that they observe in other people and act out those “qualities” as their very own, though they have no notion of why they are. They are without conscience or remorse.

Unfortunately, Nicolaid, reproduction is an inherent “right.” There is no law against reproduction, regardless of WHO is producing the offspring. Holding people “accountable” is so much easier said than done.

EB’s involvement in attending Court trials is something that EVERY CITIZEN should do: see your legislation in action, and your judicial system flounder. See what goes on behind the heavy, oak doors. Listen to the outrageous claims, the pitiful truths, and the dismissals by Judges.

Accountability? Nice concept.

Nicolaid

I know there are female psychopaths as well (I’ve met a few) but I think they are less numerous and they wreak less havoc. I don’t feel offended as a male when someone tells me that males are more agressive on average or that the vast majority of serial killers are males. That’s not sexism ; that’s the truth. Male and female brains differ on several aspects (I recently read Susan Pinker’s book on the subject, which I recommend to everyone), but especially when it comes to sexuality. We have evolved diverging sexual strategies and everyone knows that the characteristics that attract each sex are not the same. There is nothing we can do about it.

Of course, women won’t consciously think : « Great ! A psychopath ! How sexy ! Let’s have a baby and hopefully, he will inherit a few evil genes ! » Few people clearly know what is a psychopath. When I was bullied by my boss, I first saw him as an a***. It took me a few days to see that. But it took me more than one year before reaching the conclusion that he was no ordinary jerk.

I agree with Robert Trivers’ assumption that self-deception is a major psychological mechanism that helps us deal with many situations in life (no-one is immune). I believe many women have evolved a sexual preference for a certain amount of psychopathic traits which they tend to see in a rosy and unrealistic light.

For instance, if I judge that a man is arrogant and cocky, such a woman will probably see him as « confident ». These qualities are on a continuum. But depending on the fine-tuning of your antennae, you will shed a different light on the same personality traits. Some will find the man unpleasant, others will like (or love) him.

Men experience a similar delusion. I’ve noticed that it took me somewhat longer to recognize that an attractive girl was not as nice, or clever, than I whished she was, simply because of her shining sex-appeal. It takes longer to sink in. My females friends are usually quicker than me to size her up because they are not influenced by their mating brain.

When women fall in love with dangerous offenders (as often happens), they don’t think : « great ! he is dangerous ! » They rationalize their love, tend to think that justice was unfair, or that he had been provoked or that he was abused as a child, etc. They are willing to downplay the seriousness of the offense, because they are in love, and they even think that they are working towards the greater good of society because, if they love the man, he will become prosocial again. Unfortunately, he doesn’t change, but they have three kids, and one of them becomes a killer. In the process, she gets abused too. It’s a vicious, unending circle.

From a darwinian point of view, it makes sense that some women should have evolved a preference for a (more or less) heavy dose of psychopathic traits. If you have a psychopathic son who is good at seducing women (or that women are attracted to him because of his psychopathic charisma), he is going to spread your genes more quickly than a non-psychopathic son who stick to one woman. It’s in your own interest (or in your gene’s interests), even if you end up suffering because of his behavior. Think of the relationship between male and female european mantis. Is the female « psychopathic » ? Or is the male blindly working towards the diffusion of his genes through self-sacrifice ?

The same can be observed among a few species of apes and monckeys : the females obviously prefer to mate with the males that would be deemed the most antisocial or psychopathic, especially those who have killed their own infants, which seems incredible. Many of these females prefer to mate with the males who don’t hesitate to kill rivals to secure what they want and they are willing to endure some abuse to get his sperm. Females can choose, though. There is no sexual coercion.

I’m writing a book on this subject and I have hundreds of examples in my head. You may read Hervey Cleckley again. I think he saw this problem clearly.

I don’t mean to offend anyone. I think it is much more easy to discuss with women who may have a preference for some psychopathic traits ”“ and help them understand the issue ”“ than with psychopathic individuals. Since psychopathy probably has genetic roots, the choice of a psychopathic mate can have disastrous consequences for everyone, a few decades later.

But love is blind and powerful, still.

Ox Drover

Nicolaid,

Should I be accountable for the crimes one of my adult children commits? Do I get “time off” because one of my two biological sons is NOT a murderer.

How is locking me up at 44 years old (when he committed the murder) going to help society, or teach me to not have more children? So scare other young women away from having chikldren in case they were to grow up and become criminals?

How about if I married a man, we had a child, and a week after the baby was born he robbed a bank and went to prison? I should go to prison with him as well? Though I was completely unaware of him having even a thought of robbing someone? Who takes care of my child while both my husband and I are in prison?.

In some countries in Europe, Africa, and Asia families were executed or punished for the crimes of one member of the family, but I don’t think punishing the entire family worked very well.

Buttons

Nicolaid, I beg to differ with regard to your assumption that female spaths are less harmful.

It IS offensive when a general statement is made – I have met MANY female spaths, the latest one being a former friend. This person has every earmark of a male spath, with the exception of her gender. She is decietful, she is dishonest, she is ULTRA manipulative, she is a convicted criminal, and she is physically/emotionally abusive to her family members and, in particular, her spouse. I can see her committing murder for the sake of money.

If you’re writing a book, it would behoove you to do more extensive research and engage in psychiatric and psychological studies being conducted, specifically to erase this notion that male spaths are more dangerous/harmful than female spaths.

The concensus for the roots of spathy has not been reached, and never shall be. Certainly, genetic information has an impact, but there are MORE examples of spathy being a “learned” behavior.

To compare the mating practices of a praying mantis with that of the behaviors of a human psychopath is like comparing mercury to cirrus clouds – there is no correlation.

Buttons

To reiterate the comparison, Nicolaid, a specific hormone necessary for reproductive purposes is released by the male who is being consumed – it is STRICTLY about reproduction, and not a predatory intent. The female mantis is not “thinking” about stalking, torturing, degrading, lying, or stealing from the male mantis. The female mantis chooses her mate due to instincts, period.

Human behaviors, on the other hand, are not so much based upon instincts, anymore, but more about acceptance and self-worth. If humans were working on instincts, there wouldn’t be so many spaths wandering around – they would have been winnowed out and ejected from the social group once their intents had been recognized.

blueskies

good job we humans evolved from apes. You’re writing a book? are you selling it to apes or humans? Hurrumpf!

Wini

Nicolaid, I can attest that a female Spath destroyed my career … with the help of male and female Spaths that love the destruction of others. Over the 24 plus years that I worked there, none of the male Spath’s went out of their way to destroy me professionally if I did NOT accept their advances, yet the female Spaths went out of their way to destroy me for things I did not do, I didn’t even have the thoughts enter my mind. To me this fraternization was beyond ridiculous, since so many of them were into it … it was the only thing that was on their pea brain minds 24/7, year in and year out.

Out of 800 people in my place of work. 20% of us did the work. 10% of us were noticeable, the other 10% (20 to 30 years older than I) hid silently in the background working and not saying a thing … for they were done under by the Spaths of their day 20 years before I arrived and these poor souls were just hoping not to be noticed by the evil ones … hoping they could survive their wrath and make it to retirement. The other 15% were management and the remaining were cronies of management, jumping on their bandwagons.

Did I survive hell on earth? Most definitely.

My song for my former place of employment was the Chihauhau song … “I, I, I, IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII”.

P.S. I believe there is just as many, if not more, female Spaths than male Spaths. You just don’t notice them as you do the males. Males are up front in your face, the females play people like puppets, set you up months/years in advance … slink behind their desks and watch the fireworks fly. Of course, the female Spath that did you under has to be the first one to run over and give you her condolences over the ill that befell you. That’s their sick little signature … flaunting their phony concern in your face.

Buttons

Wini, you say, “flaunting their phony concern in your face”

Isn’t that the TRUTH!!!!!!!!!!

It all boils down to “intent.” If someone is intentionally damaging to another human being, for whatever reason. Even the altruistic basis – doing something wicked for the good of the whole – is erroneous.

Wini

Another interesting thing I notice about the female Spaths, they always had the nicest husbands that were genuine, down to earth, honorable. I always used to feel sorry for these guys, knowing they were clueless to what they were married to. I believe these female Spaths were ruthless to others, but never to their husbands. I noticed their offsprings would get their wrath in twisted ways that warped their relationships with their children (love/hate saga).

Has anyone else noticed this with the female Spaths that are in long term marriages? That they hide their true selves from their husbands?

Wini

Buttons, if anyone is interested in doing research on the female Spaths … I know an entire place of employment were they used to be in their full glory … until our lawsuits came into play. They are still there though … hiding behind that smiling, helpful masks.

BloggerT7165

Wini,

I know you can make the Bible say many things especially if cherry picking is used. I certainly do not want a theocracy deciding who should live or die based on their interpretation of what a book means. For example the bible has lots of reasons listed for why someone should be put to death. Here are some examples of things that the Bible says and I made sure to pull some from the same book you were quoting though there are more than this:

for following another religion: Exodus 22:20 states: He that sacrificeth unto any god, save unto the LORD only, he shall be utterly destroyed. See also and Numbers 25:1-15.

for a stranger entering the temple: Numbers 1:51 states (in part): …when the tabernacle is to be pitched, the Levites shall set it up: and the stranger that cometh nigh shall be put to death.

for proselytizing: Deuteronomy 13:1-10 states that a person who tries to convince an Israelite to convert to another religion must be killed.

for communicating with the dead: Leviticus 20:27 calls for the execution by stoning of all mediums and spiritists (aka spiritualists), both male and female.

for adultery: Leviticus 20:10 states: And the man that committeth adultery with another man’s wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbor’s wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death. This is repeated in Deuteronomy 22:22

for sexual activity before marriage: Deuteronomy 22:13-21 concludes: Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father’s house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die…”..

for sexual activity with both a woman and her mother: Deuteronomy 20:14 requires that all three be burned alive.

for being seduced if engaged: Deuteronomy 22:23-24 states: If a damsel that is a virgin be betrothed unto an husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her; Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die.

for prostitution Leviticus 21:9 states: And the daughter of any priest, if she profane herself by playing the whore, she profaneth her father: she shall be burnt with fire.

for cursing parents: Exodus 21:17 states: And he that curseth his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death.

for abusing one’s parents: Exodus 21:15 states: And he that smiteth his father, or his mother, shall be surely put to death.
for careless handling of an animal: Exodus 21:29 states: But if the ox …..hath killed a man or a woman; the ox shall be stoned, and his owner also shall be put to death.

for stubbornness and rebellion: Deuteronomy 21:18-21 states: If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother…..all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die…..

for blasphemy: Leviticus 24:16 states: And he that blasphemeth the name of the LORD, he shall surely be put to death.

for working on Saturday: Exodus 35:2 states: …but on the seventh day there shall be to you an holy day, a Sabbath of rest to the LORD: whosoever doeth work therein shall be put to death.

for ignoring the decision of a priest or judge: Deuteronomy 17:12 states: And the man that will do presumptuously, and will not hearken unto the priest that standeth to minister there before the LORD thy God, or unto the judge, even that man shall die….

Exodus 21:7 (slavery) “When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she shall not go free as male slaves do.”

Wini

BloggerT7165, I can discuss some scriptures with you that I actually comprehend their meaning and have at some point in my life looked into said passages. As a person ages, so does their depth of understanding to His truth (the Holy Bible).

Just winging it for your writing, some of the passages refer to spiritual death versus physical death …aka if a person does this or that which is appalling to the Lord, they walk away from His truth … hence, spiritual death (aka the Spaths we speak of all detest the Lord and therefore, cannot feel, are blinded to His truth, can not love, do not have compassion for others, empty blank, devoid of emotions … aka spritual death etc) because they refuse to learn wisdom.

Bottom line, we are all His children. We all knew this before we came down to earth to live in Human form. The Spaths however, detest Him … and the saga goes on through the history (His Story) of man. Everyone has a choice, follow His truth and Live … follow Satan and die (spiritually).

It’s better if you write about a specific passage … and if I know the Truth regarding it, I will write you back … or locate a scholar that knows this particular topic/passage.

Rosa

Wini:

“Has anyone else noticed this with the female Spaths that are in long term marriages? That they hide their true selves from their husbands?”

YES WINI!!! YES YES YES!!!!

That’s exactly what they do.
And that’s why so many female psychopaths are able to navigate through life without exposure.
They are hiding behind the men in their lives, like their HUSBANDS, FATHERS, & BOSSES.

They brilliantly choose men who will protect them, and smooth everything over for them, and fall for their crocodile tears.
The female socios never have to “dirty their hands”, because they manipulate others into doing their dirty deeds for them.

My brother is married to a psychopath, and she is covertly abusing him, unbeknownst to him, of course.
If he was able to see her for what she really is, the marraige would have been over a long time ago.

This is why I believe female psychopaths are GROSSLY UNDER-REPORTED in the current statistics.
The ratio of male/female socios is closer to 50/50, as far as I am concerned.

Rosa

And anyone who believes that female psychopaths are “less numerous and wreak less havoc” than the males has never met a female psycho…at least not “up close and personal”.

They are just as sinister and evil as the men.

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