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Warning others: a moral obligation or crossing the line?

This is an age old problem that seems to lack an easy answer.  Do we warn others if we recognize that they are involved with individuals with psychopathic features?  Is doing so a moral obligation or is it crossing the line?

Back in the day, it was easier.  Sure, we saw our friends dating people we didn’t like or who made us uncomfortable, but we probably just thought of these individuals as “jerks.”  We surmised that the relationships wouldn’t last and left it at that.  Even if they did endure, expressing negative opinions on such matters tended to be taboo.  As a result, typically, we said nothing.

Now, however, society is beginning to acknowledge and discuss psychopathy more readily.  With this increasing awareness, we are coming to recognize that many of these individuals, who we once dismissed as mere “jerks,” are, in fact, pathological.

What do we do with our awareness?   

Once educated on the matter, we are aware that things are more serious and worthy of warning.  We also recognize how these individuals manipulate and control those around them, often very covertly, and in manners that evade the radar of many.  Here, we know the dangers that can follow once involved with such disorder.

When this predicament presents itself, we know that our friends either don’t see the problems for what they are or don’t understand what it is they are dealing with.  If they did, they probably would have dropped these guys (or gals) on their own.  I don’t believe that anyone sets out to tangle with psychopathy.  Yet, it happens.  So…do we help?

That’s a tough one.  Ultimately, it comes down to personal choices and beliefs.  However, for me, I think we should (mostly)and I have.

How will they react?

The outcomes can be mixed.  Sometimes, we strengthen the bonds of friendship, as there is camaraderie in such experiences.  The torment is unique.  Our friends may be relieved and thankful.  They may appreciate that they are able to make sense of the things that were very, very wrong.  At the same time, some may become angry and defensive.  They may suggest that we have it “all wrong” or are simply “unsupportive.”  If we choose to share our thoughts, we must be prepared for either outcome to occur.

It may be frustrating or disappointing to see and hear our friends defend individuals we know will ultimately bring them unhappiness or place them in harm’s way, but we cannot make their decisions for them.  We can only share what we know, share how we know it, and unobtrusively make ourselves available.  Sometimes, it helps.  Sometimes, it does not.   

Undoubtedly, this is a difficult subject to discuss.  However, I have chosen to think of it this way; I know that if I saw my friends performing other dangerous acts, minimally, I would at least encourage them to move toward safety, even if I felt my suggestion might jeopardized the friendship.  Why should this be any different?

It shouldn’t be, but it can be.  Why?  One reason is that there are fewer absolutes in these situations.  Even if we recognize that our friends are in clear danger, the signs may be less obvious, especially to them.  In the event that they were inches from the ledge of a tall building, there would be no questions.  In that scenario, there’s no grey area.  Clearly, the ledge is unsafe.

However, this may be less cut and dry, especially when the relationships are fairly new, with an absence of more tangible serious concerns.  If we mainly rely on “gut” reactions, feelings, and red flags, our assertions are less concrete, even if incredibly valid.

While we may be able to pinpoint solid indicators of potential trouble, our friends may refuse to acknowledge our thoughts or question our assessments.  If they stumble upon similar gut reactions themselves, they may question their own assessments too.  The tendency is to move forward, giving others the benefit of the doubt.  Individuals with psychopathic features bank on this occurring. 

Unless seriously scorched by individuals with psychopathic personality traits prior, many  don’t necessarily understand that this is real.  Therefore, when we discuss the red flags or warning signs their “great guys/gals” display, they may not like it.  They may do the same things we once did and minimize the problems, make excuses for them, and take things at face value, freely giving trust, rather than insisting it be earned.

Our heads tend to spin as we watch.  “Don’t they see,” we ask?  We recognize what is happening.  Sometimes, they do not.  Sometimes, we watch as they fail to make the important connections.

Why does this happen?  Most people want to feel special.  Anyone who has encountered or become entangled with individuals with psychopathic traits knows that initially they do just that.  So, listening to friends may not top any priority lists, when they are hearing and getting what they want from their new prospects.

This may be especially frustrating when we witness those around us who seem to make repeated dangerous or unhealthy choices.

Either way, deciding whether or not to speak up may not be an easy choice to make.  However, I feel I must share and help those I care about when I see things going wrong.  For me, my decision to warn friends is one that I have become comfortable with.  Thankfully, it does not happen too frequently.  At the same time, I also understand that every person is different and so are the circumstances.

Where do we draw the line? 

Who don’t we tell?  Is sharing information of this nature always appropriate?  This is another personal decision.  However, I tend to feel that we should limit these discussions to our friends or others with whom we are very close.

There are certain scenarios in which no amount of “evidence” will change the minds of others.  Some situations have the potential to become quite volatile.  Sharing our thoughts and feelings may not only be fruitless, they may also be dangerous.  With new resolve to take care of ourselves, we should respect the limitations that are inherently part of certain situations.

This topic is one that I am certain we all share many different views on.  Some of us may feel letting others know what may lie ahead is a moral obligation, others may feel that it is crossing the line.  I don’t necessarily think there is a right or wrong answer that neatly fits in every situation.  Rather, the circumstances may dictate our actions.  Either way, it’s something to consider.

 


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115 Comments on "Warning others: a moral obligation or crossing the line?"

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Linda, this topic is going to open up some serious discussion – and, I appreciate this article, right now. And, I mean, “right now.” It is so uncanny how I read what I need to when I need to read it!

For me, “warning” someone that I care about FEELS like a moral imperative. I clearly saw where the marriage of the female ex-con was headed before the nuptials were even spoken, but any attempt to “warn” her victim would have resulted in an even stronger trauma-bond with him. He had been homeless when they met. She “gave” him a place to live. He had no direction and she “gave” him his opportunities. And, so forth….to tell him that she had targeted him, baited and lured him, and ultimately snagged him would not have helped him, at all. Not at all.

The same goes true with the people that we’re staying with. I can clearly see where this relationship is headed, and “warning” my friend will only strengthen that bond between him and his girlfiend. He either can’t see, or doesn’t WANT to see the manipulations and passive/aggressive behaviors. His kind heart and giving nature won’t allow him to believe that someone that he cares about has an agenda.

Peripheral people respond to the discussion of sociopathy with almost identical beliefs that they’re “disordered” and can, somehow, be “cured” or “helped.” So, that type of discussion is moot. Raising awareness about sociopathy/psychopathy is a platform of very thin ice, especially when one isn’t a “qualified professional” to discuss the facts.

Today, I choose to refer to “red flags” and my personal experiences, as Linda has mentioned, but I have to choose my words and opportunities very, very carefully. I no longer “volunteer” ANYTHING. When someone that I care about complains about their partner or friend or family member, I must be very, very cautious in my choice of words and responses. “That’s pretty awful,” is a response that I try to use rather than, “My god, but he/she sounds like a sociopath!”

If the person that is speaking to me presses for validation or insight, I try to respond with, “I felt the same way when _____ did _____ to me.” Nothing more than that is needed, I think.

True counseling is, in most cases, impossible to provide to friends for an untrained layman. I don’t know the words to use or how to separate my experiences from someone else’s. I’m still too raw for that. But, the one thing that I know that I do have the ability to provide is validation. And, even that must be approached with carefully chosen words.

What a fantastic article, Linda. Donna, thank you for posting this!

Linda, all I can say is “it depends” on the circumstances.

When I realized that the Trojan Horse psychopath who had installed himself in my mother’s home as her “live in caregiver” and I found out that he was a pedophile and that he was a “friend” of my convict son, Patrick….I got all the evidence I could from the sheriff and from the internet sex registry site and then went to her…shedid not believe a word I said…she accused me of making up the poster on my handy dandy little computer. wouldn’t believe a word I said.

I tried to warn her because I believed her LIFE WAS IN IMMEDIATE DANGER I was in TERROR. I left her house that day in sobbing tears believing at that time that I was leaving her to be killed…I had even tried to take her to court and get him kicked out of her home but that didn’t work for long…she let him back in.

The thing is by the time we get to the point that we realize what the person is dealing with, THEY ARE HOOKED and it is like trying to get a baby lion away from mommy. They will fight to stay with Mommy and mommy will attack to keep us away.

There are times we can just stay around to help pick up the pieces, but many if not most times I think we have to figure it out for ourselves. Sad but true.

Good article and bound to get some discussion going.

Interesting topic, Linda.
A friend at work has told me about having a “crush” on a customer. They flirted, a bit, and bantered. She finally asked him if he would like to meet her for a drink, sometime, and he immediatly shut her down, by admitting that he was currently seeing someone else. She backed off completely, in fact felt a little duped.
So, he keeps coming in the restaraunt, trying to engage her. She avoids him, whild maintaining a polite and professional facade.
Then, she starts getting perverted phone calls, and she KNOWS it’s him.
He denies it. She is somehow hooked in by this attention…sort of tickled by the whole thing. I asked her,” Don’t you think that’s a little creepy?”
She has told me that she isn’t particularly attracted to him, physically, until she looks in his eyes. It’s those eyes. Then, she feels the spark.
I haven’t told her about the sociopathac stare.
The most I’ve done is suggest that I find him a little creepy, and to tell her I think it’s a good thing they never hooked up.
What is interesting is watching how these freaks hook us.
She said, she thinks he’s a little odd, but, “I like odd.”
If she ever really hooked up with him, I think I’d warn her.

There is a wonderful page in Al-Anon’s original daily reader, One Day at a Time, that talks about what do when somebody else is in crisis.

Sometimes, the help is appreciated and wanted. Other times, people “need” the crisis to stop or grasp the harm that is occurring, either by their behavior or somebody else’s. Even so, there are those who never see regarding of the circumstances. People ultimately believe what they want to believe.

For instance, I found out by accident that somebody that I knew fairly well was arrested as part of huge child pornography investigation. I found out years after he and I parted as friends and long after he had been arrested and incarcerated. (I think he served 3 years. So much for getting the maximum.)

The report that I found out about him on the Internet said that the people who were the lesser offenders and arrested 10 months after he was were each facing $250,000 in fines and 10 years in jail.

Had I known that was what this guy was up to (he presented himself as Mr. New Age/granola/organic nice guy,) I wouldn’t have given him the time of day. In fact, had I known he was doing this, I would have reported him to the police.

By the time that I found out about his arrest, he had already been convicted, imprisoned, and released. A mutual friend was all set to fly to his side and hold his hand because she knew what prisoners do to guys like him in prison.

I had no compassion for him. He deserved the consequences of what he did. She came down hard on me, telling me that pornography is an addiction and I understood addictions.

First of all, this was child pornography and secondly, we both knew that he went to Thailand in search of a “bride.” I’ve been to Thailand. When you go through the airport at Bangkok, they have huge posters up on the walls for child prostitution.

As for me understanding addictions, I told her that he wasn’t addicted when he first did it and he, a college graduate, certainly knew that child porngraphy was wrong before the first time he “indulged.”

I thought what he did was heinous. I wanted no part of him. She thought not supporting him would literally be bad karma for her. She was all about not judging people and being there for them.

This situation broke apart our friendship. She saw me as a monster letting him lay in the bed that he made for himself and I saw her condoning sexual child abuse by wanting to support an abuser who had been punished for his crimes. To each his own, I guess.

Getting back to the Al-Anon page, it says that sometimes people need the experience because that is the only way that they will learn. We do not know what somebody else’s Higher Power has in mind for them. We can be more of a help to do nothing, in order to let the crisis happen sooner, than to step in, which will only prolong the inevitable and possibly permit even far more damage to happen.

Also, we need to keep in mind that what seems so obvious to us might not be the full story at all. There might be a whole lot else going on that we are not aware of and us stepping in might cause more harm than good. Our perspectives can be very limited at times. We often don’t have the whole story and it may genuinely be none of our business.

I agree that there are times when we can express our concern. It depends on, as Oxy said, the circumstances. People get overwhelmed. There may be so much going on that they missed something or there is so much chaos around them that they may appreciate a calmer insight.

How we present the information is important, too.

In a case like what Kim just mentioned above, I might say something like, “I don’t know if this applies, but from what you describe, it reminds of me of…” and I’d tell her what I thought was applicable, finishing it with, “it’s something to think about. I’m not trying to interfere, but I’d really hate to see you get hurt.” If appropriate, I might also add, “I don’t want to see psychopaths behind every tree, but I do know that they are out there and they usually aren’t the serial rapists and murderers that Hollywood would have us believing.”

What I do think we can do, which requires patience and persistence, is write to newspapers, magazines, and our congressional representatives stating our concerns. We can provide a little education in our letters as well. Things won’t change quickly, but we can always point out, “Did you read in the paper about…” Messages often hold more creditability when they are printed as opposed to being delivered verbally by a friend.

My town newspaper prints every letter to the editor it gets, while our state newspaper picks and chooses which letters it will print.

Sometimes we’ll get press and sometimes we won’t, but we can make our voices heard at town, school, community, and religious meetings. We don’t need to supply the answers or solutions. It is enough to ask, “Hey, what is being done about X?” The squeaking wheel most definitely gets the grease these days.

Just be prepared that while some people will listen, there will be enough in denial who won’t hear you and there will be those who don’t care. In those instances, simply brush the dust off your sandals and move on.

The important things are to keep moving and not give up.

For me, anyway, there is no obligation. Just because I know something, there is nothing requiring me to tell unless it is actually mandated by a law.

The problem isn’t the spath, it’s the person with poor boundaries. I know from experience. That’s why warnings often fall on deaf ears. The victim can’t see anything wrong with the situation.

Some of us were raised to be spath food and we just don’t see how to be different. My sister, the good one, is married to a controlling narcissist. I think she sees that but she’s determined to make this marriage work. She doesn’t realize that she is sacrificing her integrity for the sake of her marriage. Why? Isn’t she worth more than her marriage? Shouldn’t her marriage give to her, rather than take? Yes her husband brings home the big bucks and they travel and they’ve raise 3 kids. It’s just sad to know that what makes him happy is that she sacrificed her potential just for the sake of his ego.

In her situation, nobody could say she is in imminent danger. Rather, her soul is slowly being erode away. Death is death, whether it’s slow or quick. She should know better, she saw what I went through. Slow death is worse because, like a frog being boiled slowly, you never know when to jump out of the water, not even when it’s reached a boil. At least when you see a full-frontal attack, you run, like I finally did.

An “AHA!” moment skylar: you are right. The problem isn’t the spath, it’s the person with poor boundaries.
That is really the crux of the issue, isn’t it? We can’t control others but we CAN control ourselves.

You are right: ‘the victim can’t see anything wrong with the situation.” Exactly.

HA: ‘raised to be spath food’; don’t I know that is right. For some reason, though, I have always managed to slip through the cracks with my life. My boundaries go way out there now, though. “Imminent Danger”…oh yes, the soul being eroded away is as precious as life itself. In fact, it IS life itself; is it not? We can’t trust the abuser NOT to abuse us, based upon conscience but we CAN trust OURSELVES to not be abused anymore. It is not a requirement of a relationship, I don’t think, to allow it to suck your life.

Death IS death, whether it’s slow or quick.
Slow death is worse than going quickly. Where you feel your flesh being ravaged from your body by merely hearing one word…..
I found the ‘boil’ point in my water. I jumped out and left it keep boiling…I made my escape, FINALLY.

I know all about frontal attacks, too…
You are right, at least you can see those coming and I think that is a lot of what made me hang on as long as I did, to keep a watch on the situation. When I found a chance to jump out of the boil, I had to take it or I wouldn’t have survived. And that’s the truth. ABSOLUTELY THE TRUTH.

I am NOT sacrificing MY LIFE for a sick person who chooses to do NOTHING about their sickness. That is all there is to it. NOT after everything “I” have been put through. It’s just over and finished. I pulled the plug and it’s done. Period. I will never compromise myself and all that I am for another human being without their earning it in my eyes. While I won’t be cruel and mean, like they are, I will retreat inside of my cave and we’ll call it good. There is nothing left I want to see but safety and to be able to live what life I have left without all the ugliness.

THIS IS MY LIFE; NOT ITS.

Thanks skylar for bringing that up.
Have a good day today, would ya?

Dupey

Grace, I realize you may not agree with me, BUT I’m gonna say it anyway.

People have control over an “addiction” if they WANT control over it.

I was addicted to cigarettes. I “quit” (half heartedly, knowing I would go back to smoking eventually because I did not want to quit) multiple times, but when the time came that I knew I HAD TO QUIT, I DID. Sure it was hard, I had to exercise some “won’t power” and NOT pick up a cigarette no matter how badly I wanted on. Period.

He had the same ability to control his “addiction”to kiddie porn.

One day at a time, one desire at a time. The same way I did.

Granted it may be hard, but if you really WANT to curb the behavior you can do it. He was obviously into more than just “visual porn” if he went to Thialand —and you know I have no empathy for him at all. I hope he caught something and it rotted off. Doesn’t matter to me if he got a kid over seas or here, he is a pervert. He knew it was WRONG.

Oxy, I agree with you 100%. Addiction can be controlled. I’m not disagreeing with you on that.

My point was that he wasn’t addicted the first time that he did it so claiming addiction is not applicable.

He should never have gotten into it in the first place. He knew it was wrong before he ever looked at a piece of child pornography.

I also agree with you that he was doing a lot more than looking at photos. You don’t spend that kind of money to travel from the US East Coast to Bangkok to look at photos you could have just as easily downloaded on your computer in New Jersey.

I can’t imagine all the children that he harmed, but I now understand why he refused to hold my infant son. I am so grateful for that.

This has been a subject that has been on my mind since I found out my ex (spath) plans to marry his new victim in 2 months. I would love for him to move on and leave me and the kids alone, but….I don’t want her and her family to suffer and live the same hell he (and still attempts to) put me through. Sometimes I feel morally obligated to let someone in her circle know what she’s in for. Although I know she would not believe me after the many lies that have been spoken to her about me. It would also make matters worse with my ex spath and in his evil vindictive ways he would make sure there were “severe consequences” for my actions. Sickens me to know what lies in store for this woman and her 2 children. Nobody knows my ex as well I do. The man should be in jail!

Has anyone ever tried to warn their childrens’ future “step-parent” of the lies, emotional pain, cheating, stealing, bankruptcy, etc that is inevitably their future?

Would love to read your thoughts/experience and advice.

Thank you!

2nd chance: they wouldn’t believe you anyways.
I tried to warn the ‘new victim’ and by then the lies had already been laid down. Sometimes all you can do is pray. I would be very careful as to how close I allow my children to their ‘marriage’. I would, I am afraid, get real selfish and protective of my children.

There is nothing that you can do to prevent anything.
All you can do is protect yourself and your children.

I had a ppath just like that…always ugly and threatening. Sit tight and be patient; the ‘mask’ always slips and falls off. I know exactly what you mean about them belonging in jail.

If you are in any danger, do seek assistance from your local authorites. There are ways to escape abusive relationships. There is nothing we can do about the new ‘victims’ unless we were declared ‘super heroes’ and were given capes and we could fly around warning of their evilness. All we can do is take care of ourselves and try to help people just like us who have fallen for the devil himself…..

I wish you peace and happy endings.

Dupey

2ndchance, this is always a very difficult topic. For some, it’s a burning moral imperative and they choose to voice their concerns, regardless. Others try to guage whether the risk of ending relationships is worth voicing their concerns. Still others feel that nothing that they say will be of any help to the “target,” and this is often the case: telling someone about what the spath has done or might do often drives the spath and its target closer together in a trauma-bond.

Try to imagine yourself before your spath experiences unfolded and a complete stranger and possible competitor approaching you to tell you how vile this man that you’re in love with is. Would you have believed them? Would he have agreed? Would he have successfully made the previous victim look like a raving lunatic? Try to think of how you were drawn in and apply it to this unsuspecting target.

If you must interact with this woman due to visitation, etc., there is an opportunity to remain available to her – not BFF’s, or ANYthing like that, but cordial, polite, and “reasonable.” It is possible that she may reach out to you, at some point, and you can affirm what she’s feeling and experiencing through understanding.

From my own personal experience, my attempts to “warn and inform” the first exspath’s targets (and, there were MANY) resulted in catastrophe. I was angry, bitter, and still had not healed from my experiences with him. So, my attempts caused me to look (and, act) like a complete loon. “See what I mean? She’s crazy…” I’m SURE was what he told these women. He was a master of manipulations, and once I got over some of the rage, I realized how crazy my actions DID make me look. I couldn’t even “save” myself from that person! How could I even expect to “save” someone else?

YES – it is a “normal” impulse, and it can become utterly obsessive. To turn that around and walk away to allow the chips to fall where they may is a challenge. But, IMHO, it’s the best approach.

Additionally, if you haven’t considered counseling therapy for yourself, I highly recommend it after exiting an abusive relationship. It doesn’t mean that we’re nuts. It means that we’ve experienced events and the subsequent carnage that follows, and it’s beyond our ability to manage, alone. Your local domestic violence hotline can provide a list of counseling therapists that “get it” and OFTEN provide their services at no cost to victims, whether there have been police reports, convictions, etc., or not.

Brightest healing blessings to you

First, child pornography is more than an addiction. This is like saying that Ted Bundy had an addiction to having sex with dead women. Noooooooooooo…he is demonic. People that have sex with children and dead bodies are psychopaths at their worst. More than a bad hair day. These folks need to be locked up and the key thrown away.

Warning other people? Yes, I attempted this after my path of 17 years walked out of our marriage. I did look like a CRAZY women. Months later, I have calmed down after I realized what I was dealing with and the need for me to get “healthier”. She is still with him and evidently as happy as a clam. I have suspected that my path has actually met another “path”. It’s path heaven! I dont know how long it will last, but this is her choice now. I have sent her the facts. There is truth in the statement that many of these folks are “learning” life’s lessons and that is what we are all here to do. However, I am for warning potential victims especially women with children.

Why do I believe this? This is the day of the internet. There are very few secrets anymore about people. We can almost find out what they had for dinner….oh, no wait – we can if they are huge facebookers….right? In this day and age all one has to do is plant the seed. If this person has a shred of sense there will be that “moment” when that mask slips…that moment when their gut finally says…”this is creepy”…or “I dont think he is telling me the truth.”….days later you may find this person on the internet – checking the links to “psychopath” or “credit reports.”

I believe that God gave us this brain and mouth for a reason. If there were not situations that demanded someone to speak “up”…we would still have ovens for burning people in Germany and Jim Jones would still be handing out poisoned coolaid to his loyal “followers”.

I will never stop speaking out. Peace to all of you.

Hope52, speaking out and speaking “to” is, for me, a different matter. I am quite vociferous about the facts with regard to sociopathy. I speak about what they do, how they troll, how I was snagged, and the aftermath of the experiences. I try to avoid giving information about what my experiences were simply because most people just “don’t get it” unless they’ve had similar experiences.

My problem with warning the next victim is that they have already been baited and lured into the belief that the spath is the greatest thing since the electric toaster. The new targets are already being isolated from their network of support so that the ony source of “information” is the spath. Former victims are painted as lunatics, as you know, and nothing we can say or do will convince the new targets that their emotional, financial, sexual, spiritual, and physical safety is at extreme risk.

I agree that it’s particularly frightening if children are involved. But, unless there exists what can be defined as “legal evidence” that someone is a risk to children, the former victims will be made to look bitter, vindictive, and slanderous – this is a hard, ugly truth, but it is a truth, nonetheless.

In my situation, the exspath became involved with a GROUP of people who entertained violent sexual interests. One playmate, in particular, is a young, dumb woman who has a young daughter. Knowing what I do about the exspath, I am in DREADFUL fear for this child’s safety. But, according to the legal definition, an adult’s personal sexual interests are of no concern unless it involves children. What this child could be exposed to is only an “idea,” and not a fact – not, yet. And, the new victim is so deeply enmeshed in this violent sexual culture that she will never accept facts, even if if those facts are on paper, in a Judgement, in writing, or in her face.

The only thing that I can do is to heal myself and attempt to educate others who remain oblivious.

Brightest blessings

To clarify on “adult’s sexual interests,” this includes bondage, torture, necrophilia, and a host of other extremely disturbing and vile acts. But, as long as it doesn’t involve a child, the standard view is, “If it’s between consenting adults, it’s none of our business.”

Sick? You bet.

Two friends who were also colleagues took great risk at a meeting 3 weeks ago. They asked if I had gone back to Hansen. We had dated for intense 11 weeks when he first broke up in a sudden viscious manner after a fantastic getaway over a cell phone issue. Within 1.5 hours, his texts, calls, flowers started and 4 days later, I gave him a 2nd chance. Just 12 days later, he broke up with me again accusing me of wanting to date a friend of his who I had zero interest in and only had spoken to at a business dinner. Again, it was viscious words then accusations then and this time it impacted a weekend trip that included kids. I’d had enough. In my mind, I was only going to give him a 2nd chance. After the 1st breakup, my friends intervened telling me that he was beyond jerk, that he was psycho and that they cared about me and even if it meant end of friendship, they could not sit back and let me go back to him without warning. They also made sure I knew that if I did go back, they’d still be there for me if anything went wrong. Well, if I had heeded their words, I wouldn’t be writing this, having just tested home alarm system and planning to file restraining orders. My ex- is prominent former CEO and has been stalking me for 3 weeks now, showing up at house and causing disturbances though I stay behind locked door. I blocked all his numbers and then the new # he bought just to get through my blocks. I’ve set up email and new email to go straight to archives. I’ve blocked social media channels. He is clever and seems to keep finding ways but I’ve managed to not see him. This is scary. Your site, given to me by one of these friends, was an eye-opener. He is not the first sociopath I’ve dated, I know now. I used to wonder what was wrong with me, why these types were attracted to me. Seeing your research was freeing, in that the qualities I have that attract them are actually positive. That relieved a lot of angst for me, and now I know “Just say no” to the bad ones because there are always red flags and I could have avoided this situation if I had listened much earlier. Yes, the relationship may seem short but he was pressuring me to see him nearly 6 days a week, sometimes 7, texted, called, would never give me space, and my self-employed work was suffering, my friendships were getting neglected and my time with my teen-aged son was beginning to be impacted. I realized I had accommodated Hansen to the maximum, practically let him run my schedule as if I were a child. When I couldn’t see him, he would threaten me subtly, saying, “Our relationship won’t work if we don’t spend time together.” That button worked for weeks on me. I was slowly giving up my power and my friends warned me that there would be little left of me if this continued, that he would decimate me. What really helped is that I realized after reading this site to treat my issue as if I was addicted to him and that anytime I spoke to him, emailed him back or engaged in any contact whatsoever, it would be akin to “falling off the wagon” and starting over. So, after a few slips, I have been firm in “no engagement” and feel stronger everyday. He is charming and handsome and we had a lot in common, the same story echoed here. Even if some of that was true, the meanness and lack of kindness is not love to me. That was another “a ha.” He keeps telling me how much he loves me, wants to marry me, etc. and I resolved that perhaps he does love me in his twisted way, but that my agreement about what love is differs drastically from his so that our agreement about “love” is NOT a match. I treasure my friends and wrote them both thank you letters for caring so much that they were willing to risk our friendship rather than see me get mixed up with a creep. I hope now that this doesn’t end in physical harm to me.

I was the eldest of four children raised by a psychopathic parent, I then married one and had three children. I divorced and then married another one and then divorced again. Two of my children have children of their own. In all that time I lived in a nightmare that I couldn’t make sense of. I knew something was wrong, but I just couldn’t work out what. I was frightened but I didn’t know what I was so scared of. I went to so many professional people for help. The first time I tried to get help was when I was 8 years old. I feel like I have spent a lifetime trying to protect my siblings and my children from something I couldn’t see and I wasn’t able to. No one could help me. Recently when my adult children who were so close to me suddenly became estranged from me and from each other I again looked for help and then a telephone counsellor told me I was dealing with a psychopath. It was a life changing moment. I have lost so much but I finally have my freedom. If I had only known all those years ago life would have been different for all of us. The only pain left that I have is the new awareness that my adult children are in relationships with psychopaths and two of them have small children. I have seen terrible things happening to my children and my grandchildren all without real evidence and I have seen the same confusion and fear in all their faces. I know my children have been to psychologists looking for help that don’t get it and come away worse off, but I know they don’t want to hear anything from me. I worry that if and when they do finally realise and they have suffered and I haven’t said anything that I will feel like I have let them down again. I want so much to protect my grandchildren who I know are being abused but what I do could also make things worse. My friends have suggested saying nothing and just being there for them when they need me. Knowing what is morally right or what is crossing the line is extremely difficult and can be quite painful.

Truthspeak – Necrophilia – or sex with a corpse is a Class D Felony in the majority of the United States. Unwanted sexual acts are physical abuse. Witnessing these types of sexual acts damages the brains of children and can create nightmare psychological damage for both children and adults. If you know anyone committing necrophia turn them into the authorities. I must say I am concerned about your post about sex. Are you in therapy? Have you suffered sex abuse? These are acts of violence. Innocent people are drawn into these groups and all of these behaviors can lead to more serious abuse.

Tmarie – “love is kind” – Cornithians 13:4. If this man is doing these things to you RUN dont walk to the local police to file stalking charges and protective orders. Reach out to your local abuse shelter for counseling and legal advice. If you do not have a domestic abuse center nearby – contact Victim’s Assistance at your local police office. If you live in a small town with a disinterest in your concerns remember law enforcement is another area for psychopaths to work. I would consider moving to another city. GET AWAY.

Maree – Scary stuff you posted. The NUMBER ONE observation I have made about our so called “therapists” is that MOST are not worth the cost of their diploma. How the heck do you go to college for four years and then a master’s degree and NOT know about personality disorders? Also, realize that psychotherapy is a major MAGNET for psychopaths. I am not so sure there is a huge difference between the two – sociopaths and psychopaths. They are both LOW conscience personality disorders. Psychopaths actually have been born with a brain anomaly. Although the brains of children raised in violent homes will change from the violence experienced. This is now a proven fact. If you think your children are being physcially abused, emotionally abused or sexually abuse reach out to your local Domestic Abuse center for help.

It’s time to stop abuse of our children. If you feel that your grandchildren are suffering – go with your gut and contact the local authorities.

I will pray for your strength and peace to make the right decision for your grandchildren and your family. Peace.

Hope52, I wrote: ~~To clarify on “adult’s sexual interests,” this includes bondage, torture, necrophilia, and a host of other extremely disturbing and vile acts~~

What I typed was “interests,” not known sexual violation of corpses.

Thank you for your clarifications.

Truthspeak…hmmmm…I dont know we may be splitting hairs here….having an “interest” in bondage, torture, necrophilia and other disturbing acts” to me is “like” having an “interest” in pedophia, child prostitution, and other disturbing behaviors. Healthy people are not interested in these things. Sorry, my RED flag warning would be going off big time. I would probably alert the authoritites and make other friends. Something is wrong with these people with interests such as the above. An accident waiting to happen.

Ok, perhaps a clarification…”I am intersted in learning how to educate people about the dangers of deviant sexual behaviors.” Now I could go with that perhaps as a theory of why someone is “interested” in having sex with a corpse.

Hope52, I don’t recall seeing your ID, before, so I may have missed previous posts.

I have been posting frequently with regard to my situation, and I don’t have the energy to re-hash it all, right now. Suffice it to say, that I’ve got my situation in hand as much as possible.

My answer to the question about actively warning new potential victims is that it cannot be an all-or-nothing approach. My personal experience has demonstrated that attempts to “warn” targets of their impending doom typically are wasted.

It’s a personal call, and I choose to voice my opinion ONLY if I am asked, directly. Even then, I tread very, very carefully, as that friend or target may need a friend down the proverbial road.

P.S. I forgot to add he has blantantly said the most vile things to try to assasinate my character and there are places I can no longer go to. I know I count myself very blessed that I am out of the relationship now, however, I did care and that is what hurts, and the shock of his behavior – but it is all text book behavior from what I have read on this site. I had trouble fighting the urge to want to tell his people and parents the truth (he is in his 40’s) and yet I know he would come after me – not sure that they would believe me as they do not seem to really care or have ever held him accountable for his behaviors even as a child. So there is nothing I can do… but move forward this is the hardest part. I thank everyone for their posts as it has been very helpful as well but wow is my heart hurting.

Skysong, they might be just like him as well.

Just remember that they’ve known him a lot longer than you have. His behaviors are not new. They know what he is.

Don’t bother trying to warn anybody.

There is a high likelihood that your warnings will be used against you as in, “What a crazy woman she is; can you believe that she is saying these things about him?”

People who don’t want to know won’t believe you.

People who would like to know have already noted his bad behavior. Their warning bells have gone off.

You take care of you so you don’t get dragged under by him, or others like him, again.

Skysong,
I agree with G1S.
There are plenty of people in this world who would not seem to be psychopaths on the surface, but given the chance, they will join in with a bully to harrass and slander you.

I call these “spaths without balls”. The don’t have the balls to start a bully campaign but they’ll join in on the malice and relish every minute of it.

Normal people don’t relish anybodys pain. They don’t join in with bullies, though they might not defend you out of fear of being the next target.

Sometimes we have to look at what the spaths do to us as a favor. They reveal the true being of all the false friends around us. It’s very painful to learn, but I can’t think of anything more valuable.

Skylar,
LOL..That statement reminds me of some kind of tv show:

Monday, 10:00 pm (9ct) SPATH’S WITHOUT BALLS

Watch spaths, sub-spaths, minions, bully’s assistants, etc.
you only have to watche ONCE! why? Because they are ALL THE SAME!

sorry, got on a roll.

Skysong,

First off, I’m glad you escaped from a spath. Don’t bother warning the spath’s family members – they don’t care. My ex is a spath and I have warned different ones in his family – no-one cares. I personally think that the whole family (including the sister-in-laws who married into the family) collectively lack a conscience. Before I married the spath and while married to him, not one of these family members tried to warn me about their family member. It was only when we separated and I shared some of my experiences, telling them about how the spath is a liar (trying to tell them tactfully, being considerate of their feelings, thinking at the time that they didn’t know the spath’s true character) and about some of his shady ways, I found out that they already knew some awful stuff about him (which they conveniently kept quiet about). Now, I’m through with the whole family, not caring what happens to any of them.

Ana,
LOL! I’d watch that show! Once. It would actually be a good show, I’ll bet. It would educate some people.

I think we should call it: A spath and his minions.

ROTFLMAO

Skysong, I’m so sorry for your experiences. I agree with Bluejay – any attempts to “warn” anyone else is not going to be productive for you, or for them. They are either sitting the fence or in complete denial – they don’t want to hear truths. They could also be addicted to the drama/trauma associated with the spath. Who knows? But, you are your business, now – healing YOU, and we can’t very well “warn” anyone when we are raw, in pain, and trying to recover.

Character assassins, yes. That is a given. And, the only way to combat that is through No Contact, and recognizing that there is not one thing that we can do to “undo” the damages that the spaths have caused. We can’t go back in time and change what’s already happened. We CAN take this day and make it our own.

Ana…..LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!! And, put them all on Spath Island…..

Basically the whole village warned me that the spath was bad news, had a bad past of being a thief and conning tourists… I ignored all of these warnings, because he said he had learned his lesson and I felt the village wasn’t giving him much of a chance to get his life back in order. I kinda thought the same thing about his father who didn’t seem to help him much according to what he said (didn’t actually start to converse with the father until several months later). And I could see that his cousins disliked him very much and didn’t trust him and were scared of him at times, in my opinion (at that time) for no apparent reason. I saw him as being the black sheep of the family, smething my father endured all of his life without cause because of his narcistic sister.

A year later though I had a good report with his brother and father. And that’s when they slowly started to reveal a few things about him, gradually more and more. His brother would insist the spath was a liar over the phone the last months. And his father on the one hand wanted a better life for his youngest son, but also had very good boundaries. They didn’t ‘warn’ me, but they validated me when I witnessed or eperienced a wrong by him, and they had no issue hiding from me they wouldn’t put up with his dramarama.

The only info I did not have was of the ex girlfriends. One even told me the opposite ‘that I could trust him’ when I first got to know him, even though she was the first to call me up and then tell me ‘good riddance, he’s always been a bastard.’ The ex-es and women he cheated me with came forward in the week after the mask went off, and that was exactly the last piece of the puzzle for me that made me instantly decide he’d never ever change. I personally belief that it was the sole warnings I would have accepted and relied on much earlier in the relationship; because it has always been my opinion that how previous partners were treated is the biggest aid to predict how you will likely end up being treated. I never even allowed even flirtation from a man in a relationship for exactly that reason. But that’s ME!

I did warn the new victim, but she’s still with him. So, it didn’t help. But it eased my conscious to know that I tried to do the right thing by her. And I also know that at some point in the future (not too far I hope for her), she will wise up or when echanged yet again for someone new, will find her way out of the maze partly because of the info I passed onto her.

Darwin,
I also was warned by a few people that he was trouble, even his own mother told me “you dont want to get involved with somebody like that” I asked what she meant and she said “he is a booger”..well I thot she was the problem because the x had told me his mother had abandoned him at age two and he was raised by his grandparents.
I am not perfect and had a few issue’s also, so I thot the two of us could put our troubled past behind us and finally have something wonderful = the two of us…
I wish I had listened to everybody, I wish I had listened to my gut, I knew from the beginning he was off. The main reason I let him stay here was I felt so sorry for him. And each time he cut my heart out and stomped on it I would forgive him. His pity ploy’s deserved an academy award.
Not only did I feel sorry for him I was half scared of him, he would make threat’s like ‘if you dont love me I will rock your fuckin world” so I schemed on how to get him out of my life because he was making no attempt to leave on his own.. We would have terrible ugly arguments and I would kick him out with his life belongings in a few paper bags. I even took him to the bus station, gave him the money for a ticket to his mom’s, well she called me and said ‘ he cant come here I cant do anything with him.” So again I felt sorry for him. Later that day he called crying, well he was homeless, would lose his job if I didnt let him have a place to stay,,,so again I told him OK two weeks and you have to move on.. During those to weeks he would convince me I was everything he wanted…The cheating never slowed down a bit.. So finally I gave him enough rope ( access to the computer ) to land him a new victim…and when he finally left the last and final time he said he was leaving me because he didnt trust me..duh?!~

Hens, yah…..he was just projecting the fact that he was not to be trusted onto you.

Sheeesh….. Under no circumstances would I ever entertain the notion of the exspath re-entering my life. I will never speak to him, again, and I’m treating him as if he’s simply a bit of dust that blew off of something. He’s gone, gone, and GONE, and I couldn’t feel more relieved, even if it’s the aftermath of the whole experience with him.

No….if anyone had ever tried to “warn” me, before, I would NEVER have listened. I was “in love,” and that meant “second chances” and “benefit of the doubt.”

Brightest blessings

Truthspeak<
I dont want him back, I dont want to ever talk to him again. Has been four and half years NC. Not that he hasn't tried a few time's to re-enter my life, I did not take the bait.
However I would like to look him in the eye's one more time, I dont need to say a thing, I just want to look at what almost killed me for what I now know it to be. I want to look evil in the eye and let it know it has no power over me.

Hey guys,

I wanted to post that I’ve had no contact with the ex, but he showed up at my barn saturday nite during a team penning. I said hi let him talk then excused myself and left. It was hard, he was cold, I don’t know why he showed up as he doesn’t really know anyone there, but me. I felt like I’d been punched in the gut and the older guy who hauls me talked to me awhile and said it was my choice to leave or stay and he wouldn’t judge me either way.

Yesterday, I get a text from a number I don’t know asking me to call sounds like a girl so I called to see who it was. It was him. He’s in trouble as he drove on dead tags for 18 mths and had no insurance. He has a CDL and is really in trouble. He had the nerve to ask me to drive 45 minutes to pick him up take him to the court commissioner and then home today. I told him and it wasn’t a lie that I’m trying to get another vehicle myself and if the money was preapproved I needed to take care of that today. So I’m at work with my cell turned off so I can’t hear his call or text and I have no voice mail set up so no voice mail. I feel bad he got into trouble, but he asked if I turned him in, which I didn’t, out of spite. He knows me better than that. I know with this he will probably lose his job and with the fines his truck inpounded he will most likely have to go back to VA where his family is. The good news is I probably won’t see him anymore or hear from him. Which is kind of a relief.

-Jennifer

PS It was a downer he showed up as I went to a stock horse show and roped my first calf, got the best score in reining I’ve ever gotten and had a great day. I’m trying not to let him ruin it. Oh and I got preapproval on the car so I can pay for it and then start working towards getting my dually.

MDCowgirl, I’m sorry that he tried to worm his way back, for whatever purpose. But, rest assured, whatever he had in mind would not have ended happily.

GOOD FOR YOU for staying NC, and BLOCK his numbers whenever he changes them. You don’t really want to know what’s happening to him, do you?

Congratulations on your event – cutting and reigning are truly challenging. What a superb thing for you to have in your life!!!!

Hens…..I understand what you’re saying. I don’t particularly want to do that, myself, but I can certainly understand why someone else might.

HUGS TO YOU!!!!

Hens,
Be careful. I thought I could do that and he targeted our adult daughter who hardly knew him. Now he has my daughter and grandchildren and I don’t anymore

Bertha,
He is now with your daughter and grandchildren? OH my, I can not think of any thing worse than that. My heart goes out to you.

Bertha, yes….I echo Hens’ sentiments. I am so sorry that things turned out the way that they have.

Brightest blessings

So, I am living in this situation of renting living space from a colleague that I’ve known for a number of years. This person is very intelligent, but very insecure, and always has been. He’s “different” in that he likes to play fantasy games (NOT online ones, but in group tournaments), is a sci-fi fan, and a virtual walking encyclopedia of comics facts, legend, and so forth. He’s an amazing artist, and he possesses a heart of true gold.

The girlfriend that is living with him was probably his second girlfriend and he met her in college. These two individuals come from VERY different backgrounds. His was a middle-class environment, and hers was an environment of housing projects and a very, very needy mother who went from one abusive relationship to another.

This girlfriend has interacted with me on an extremely passive/aggresive level since my colleague invited me to stay with him until I was able to sort out the wreckage of my life. That, I can handle. She’s a rude, selfish, and socially ignorant person, and that’s all there is to that.

But, what I can clearly see is her deliberate manipulations to dismantle this colleague’s life and network of friends. For instance, she deliberately manipulated this man from attending to business obligations so that he could take her to some parade in another town. She has demonstrated extremely inappropriate behaviors in FRONT of people – like twisting his nipples, threatening to harm him, attempting to “horseplay” and squealing INJURY even as she egged him on to wrestle some more, and has actually told him “I hate you,” when playing board games, cards, or other mundane events.

She is dismantling his network of friends by “disallowing” get-togethers to watch sci-fi movies, as a group. “That is NEVER going to happen,” was one response she made when I asked her about it. I thought she was joking. Then, when the topic came up, again, she emphatically said to his face, “I am NOT interested in watching STUPID movies for hours and hours.” Okay….there’s another television in this house that has cable, and it’s in THEIR bedroom. This is coming from the person who will actually enter into the living room (the only place where I can watch any programming), changes the channel and forces everyone to either watch reality programs, or leave the room. I always choose the latter, because I cannot tolerate such programs as, “My Big Fat Gypsy Wedding,” or, “Bad Girls Club,” or “Sister Wives,” or “Teen Moms,” and the rest. This young woman even RECORDS these programs so that she can view 8-hour marathons of this tripe on weekends, and she has the nerve to call epic movies “Stupid?!”

So………….the point of this whole rant is that I can see this situation for what it is. She hooked this guy through sex. She believes that she has hit the social and financial Jackpot, and she intends to marry this man, at all costs. She also intends to have children with him, but she will never, by her own admission, raise these children. She will have them in daycare at 6 weeks because she has admitted that she can’t handle that kind of committment.

I am NOT going to tell my friend and colleague what I can clearly see. Would it help? No, he would only draw closer to her and further away from everyone who cares about him. Because she has his ear on all things and wields SUCH a tremendous control over his actions through coersion and manipulations (and, physical humiliation), there will be a train wreck of epic proportions for this man, and I do not have the power to stop it.

Instead, I’m going to remain is friend, remain cordial with the creature that he’s in love with, and remain available if he ever needs a friend.

Truthspeak,

My longest and one of my three best friends is involved with someone I believe to probably be a spath. They are almost together for a year now.

He’s divorced and has a 5 year old son. He had this long ago youth love of the past who had always remained in love with him but had moved on and got married. He then went after her and the woman divorced her husband to finally have this relationship with him. But not long after that he met my friend and started an affair with her, while claiming to be racked with guilt over having the other woman divorce her husband for him. By November my friend was starting to realize she couldn’t go on like that, and gave him an ultimatum. In December he chose her, dumped the woman who had divorced her husband, and she practically moved in with him at the other side of Belgium. But she hasn’t rented out her apartment yet, because they still use it as a place to stay overnight when they go out in Antwerp. The move to the other side of Belgium of course isolates her physically from her parents and brother, from her lifelong friends and made her going to work horror drives of 3 hours going and 3 hours back. She was a high level manager for 12 years at the same company, and wished to get to even a higher level but was told there were no positions available. So, in February she decided she would quit the firm, and brokered a deal where she would work another 3 months but get paid until the end of the year 2012. She hasn’t worked since the start of June, and apparently her partner who has several design businesses didn’t need to work much either… so they’ve been living the good life of having an income and not needing to work.

I think she deserves a time off for a while and do spontaneous stuff like a last minute getaway and such, because she always worked so hard, feeling so conscious about her responsibilties, etc… I’m happy she finally gets the chance to experience herself in a committed relationship (that is where she feels committed, because she always had a very hard time falling in love with anyone); she gets to connect with her soft side and grow some wild hairs. But at the same time I am fully convinced she’s doing it with the wrong man.

She admits he’s “strange” and “arrogant” but feels he’s the man of her life. And yes he’s horribly arrogant. The first time I met him he basically tried to put me down on any subject we talked about and showed open disdain for teachers. Anyway, he was very rude. But the next time I saw him, he has made efforts to get on my good side. I gather that it seemed less of an effort to pretend to befriend me, because she and I meet only 4-5 times a year and at the same time I am the longest friend in her life (we’ve been friends since I was 16 and she 17). Noone has ever truly been able to come between that even if people often do not comprehend how two such different people can respect each other so well for so long.

Last night I saw her (and him of course) again after months. Because of me packing my stuff for the move in 3 weeks, I discovered some photography project I had to do during my master studies. I had forgotten all about it and discovered I had used her parents’ home and house as the subject. For me it’s pretty meaningless nowadays and something I’d not consider moving along to the new apartment, but I knew her parents would cherish it… they sold the house and hardware shop a couple of years ago, and it has been broken down… that house simply does not exist anymore. It’s a superb memoribilia gift for her and her family. So, that’s the reason why we ended up meeting at my favourite pub.

The things he did though have only deepened my distrust of him though I was fully able to hide that fact. He was trying to pretend to be my buddy, then when he noticed two strangers size me up he tried to pawn me off (of course with a lot of honey smearing and flattery about my appearance, my physics studies, being a fellow designer in degree like him, me being a true Antwerp citizen – we’re called the proud ones by other Belgians, etc)… I politely let him and those men know I am not into casual sex (anymore). But throughout the evening he showed a lot of interest in my breasts, the firmness, etc… sometimes in front of my best friend, and towards the end of the evening in a conversation I had with him while my friend was talking to other people he mentioned there being three women who claim he’s the man of their lives and they are still waiting for him, would drop any new partner instantly for him, and how there must be something wrong with them mentally to do that. One of those three women though he confessed is someone that if he would be alone with for 10 minutes they would be instantly all over each other, even though he knows it would never work between them. I gather that must be the woman he dumped for my best friend, because he also mentioned he couldn’t mention her name to my best friend without provoking my friend.

Pfff, I’m quite sure this creep probably fantasised about me last night, and I’m sure that at some point he’ll try to tell my friend I came on to him in order to make her drop me. Luckily we never ever fell for the same men and she does know I’m not a huge personal fan of him, and I told her yesterday of my biggest love possibly re-entering my life. I hope that lifetime experience will guard her from ever believing such a lie from him at some point in the future.

Anyhow, I have decided not to drop any hint of my true dislike and distrust of him to her anymore. She has to go the full ride unfortunately. My heart nearly breaks for her, but I want to be able to be there for her when her life falls apart because of him at some point. I want her to be able to come to me without fearing a “I told you so”. I gave her my opinion at the start of it all almost a year ago and she made her choice, and I cannot be anything but be supportive of her, and I will put up with his company somewhat for her.

Truthspeak,
You are in a terrible situation here. This girlfriend of your friend sound’s like white trash to me. Personally I think anyone that watches those reality TV show’s that often has the mentality of a Jerry Springer couch tater.
You must find somewhere else to live and then tell your friend what you think of her.
This is not a healthy inviroment for you. You must start looking for another place to rent asap as I see thing’s only gettin worse. Best of luck…….

Hens, I truly appreciate your concern, and I know that this is an extremely negative situation. This gal does things, on purpose, with deliberation, but this is only temporary. There will be options available to me, soon.

I noticed that she uses the topic of sex, frequently. She insinuates that my friend becomes “embarassed” whenever she discusses sex around him and his friends – a completely INappropriate topic, I believe, but that’s just me. “Look at how red he’s turning! He’s EMBARASSED!” is what she typically says. One day, he reponded, “I’m not embarassed. I’m angry.”

She also dumped bleach water on the sunflowers that I planted in his yard. She has fed food that I cooked to their dog if she didn’t like it by setting the plate within very close proximity of the dog’s face, and then whining, “OH, dammit, she’s eating my food!” She then tossed the food out, and didn’t get a second plate.

This gal is trash, indeed. She may be “educated,” but she lacks empathy, social courtesy, TRUE reality-based views, and she is thoroughly ignorant in her assertions. She was actually attempting to school me on my second divorce actions, and I shot her the fark down by saying, “And, how many divorce procedings have you experienced?” She actually had the NERVE to respond, “Well, none.” To which I responded, “I think I have a bit more experience in these matters than you do.” The most telling thing about this exchange is that she didn’t even try to pretend that she was put in her place. She just became sullen.

Yeah, this poor guy’s in for the ride of his life. For me, it is simply a temporary solution to a very dire situation. This isn’t going to go on, forever, and I told my friend AND his girlfiend this, on several occasions. 🙂

Darwinsmom, yeah……he’s got your dear friend hooked, and it’s a crying shame. (sigh) Warning her wouldn’t be of any value, whatsoever.

Truth….I am glad to hear this is only a temporary situation for you…however this sound’s like constant drama and chaos to me……I am so blessed to be able to live alone peacefully…

Truthspeak,

No, it wouldn’t be of any value. And I certainly must keep my lips sealed about the inappropriate remarks he made when she wasn’t around, certainly not about these women he spoke about it. I’m actually convinced that it was as much as a confession that he used his previous victim for sex still. He tried to make it sound as simply a hypothetical situation and some emotional attraction fact or observation between him and that woman… but he said it at least twice and it sounded too much as a recent or present occurrence.

I think it’s both a tell as well as a test. To find out whether I would relay that info to my friend and warn her about him. I was a bit drunk when he told me, but my stomach churned at how he represented himself and these women… they were the irrational, mentally disturbed women chasing him, and he was the adored man who was a bit of a victim who chose my friend over all of this. I literally still feel sick over that disgusting piece of convo, though I played my part and nodded when he asked me whether those prior victims of his were mentally disturbed. I’ll give him rope on the few times I meet him when I’m meeting her. Perhaps one day he’ll hang himself.

As for the focus of his on my sexuality: it was creepy too. He didn’t come on to me, and yet it was clear he could not but think of me as a sexual object. Grossed me out too.

And somewhere half through the evening he even asked me whether I was the woman staying over at her apartment with them. He meant it as some sexual banter inside joke between them (she was present during this). I smiled and said “No chance in that happening. I’ll be sleeping at my own proper place, and you get to enjoy my friend all to your self!” I also passed any flattery about my breasts when my friend was present and turned it into a compliment of her figure.

Yuck! Yuck! I think I need another shower.

Hens, yes….it is a wonderful thing to have one’s own space without emotional conditions attached. This gal is such trash that I watched her neglect their “family dog” for 3 days, at a clip, and forget to feed it. Now, this is a common, almost perennial, event that she “forgets” to feed this poor dog. Did I feel a burning desire to assume this responsibility? YOU BET I DID! And, I fed this poor dog, on the sly, to see what this gal would do. Eventually, she says, “Oh my god, I don’t know when the last time I fed ***** was!” In the meantime, she’s busy searching the internet rescue leagues to “get a puppy” to keep this poor dog “company when (I) leave.”

Darwinsmom……I feel sick along with you! EW….another shower and some scrubbing sands to exfoliate the spath cells off! BLECH!!!! Patooie! ICK

Truthspeak I hope you find a peaceful haven all to yourself away from that trashy person.

I find it so amazing sometimes how blatantly wrong people behave and act and yet others don’t seem to be able to see it as clearly. Once the blinders are off, they are truly off, aren’t they. I do understand to be blindsided, because I was myself in the past… but now those red flags scream at me and I find it so hard not to think, “Can’t he/she see how obnoxious a bastard/bitch that other person is?”

I flip through the tv channels and occasionally look at some of these reality tv show’s and I am stunned that people actually watch this shit. Society is going down the terlette.
Look at the world, look at our young people texting and unable to connect on a human level. I am so glad I did experience the good ole day’s, despite all my childhood trauma I do remember a better time then today.

Darwinsmom, I have made the conscious decision to call a spade what it is. I do not allow for the “benefit of the doubt” where deliberately bad behavior is concerned. Now, this doesn’t mean that I’m going to drag my colleague off into a corner and tell him how much danger he’s in. Neither am I going to tell this trash about herself. I can see it, smell it, taste it, and I cringe because I know what’s coming. But, I cannot stop it, and unless my colleage asks my specific opinion, my mouth is glued shut. And, if he ever does ask my views, I will have to be very, very cautious of my words.

It’s funny….whenever he asks how my divorce is going, I take the opportunity to say, “It cost thirty five bucks for a marriage license. To dissolve a bad marriage, it costs THOUSANDS, and if children are involved, tens of thousands.” I leave it at that.

Hens, do you know how the “tone” of the reality show people sound? Know what I mean? If I hear that type of whining, droning, and self-serving tone, I just get ALL KINDS of wormy.

I’m with you – I wouldn’t want to be a kid or young adult, today, for all of the tea in China. This is the most narcissistic generation in modern History. I can barely stand instructing children, anymore, because they are so unresponsive, verbally abusive to one another, and plain scary. I had one kid make a handle for a pot he was making and my assistant says, “Look at how clever this is!” I responded, “Yeah, if you like the butt of a Glock 9mm.” She was shocked when I pointed out that this kid had recreated the butt of a firearm on a piece of work.

Very, very disturbing.

As for safe haven? That will come, in due time. Thanks Darwinsmom – it’ll definitely come in due time.

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