This is an age old problem that seems to lack an easy answer. Do we warn others if we recognize that they are involved with individuals with psychopathic features? Is doing so a moral obligation or is it crossing the line?
Back in the day, it was easier. Sure, we saw our friends dating people we didn’t like or who made us uncomfortable, but we probably just thought of these individuals as “jerks.” We surmised that the relationships wouldn’t last and left it at that. Even if they did endure, expressing negative opinions on such matters tended to be taboo. As a result, typically, we said nothing.
Now, however, society is beginning to acknowledge and discuss psychopathy more readily. With this increasing awareness, we are coming to recognize that many of these individuals, who we once dismissed as mere “jerks,” are, in fact, pathological.
What do we do with our awareness?
Once educated on the matter, we are aware that things are more serious and worthy of warning. We also recognize how these individuals manipulate and control those around them, often very covertly, and in manners that evade the radar of many. Here, we know the dangers that can follow once involved with such disorder.
When this predicament presents itself, we know that our friends either don’t see the problems for what they are or don’t understand what it is they are dealing with. If they did, they probably would have dropped these guys (or gals) on their own. I don’t believe that anyone sets out to tangle with psychopathy. Yet, it happens. So…do we help?
That’s a tough one. Ultimately, it comes down to personal choices and beliefs. However, for me, I think we should (mostly)and I have.
How will they react?
The outcomes can be mixed. Sometimes, we strengthen the bonds of friendship, as there is camaraderie in such experiences. The torment is unique. Our friends may be relieved and thankful. They may appreciate that they are able to make sense of the things that were very, very wrong. At the same time, some may become angry and defensive. They may suggest that we have it “all wrong” or are simply “unsupportive.” If we choose to share our thoughts, we must be prepared for either outcome to occur.
It may be frustrating or disappointing to see and hear our friends defend individuals we know will ultimately bring them unhappiness or place them in harm’s way, but we cannot make their decisions for them. We can only share what we know, share how we know it, and unobtrusively make ourselves available. Sometimes, it helps. Sometimes, it does not.
Undoubtedly, this is a difficult subject to discuss. However, I have chosen to think of it this way; I know that if I saw my friends performing other dangerous acts, minimally, I would at least encourage them to move toward safety, even if I felt my suggestion might jeopardized the friendship. Why should this be any different?
It shouldn’t be, but it can be. Why? One reason is that there are fewer absolutes in these situations. Even if we recognize that our friends are in clear danger, the signs may be less obvious, especially to them. In the event that they were inches from the ledge of a tall building, there would be no questions. In that scenario, there’s no grey area. Clearly, the ledge is unsafe.
However, this may be less cut and dry, especially when the relationships are fairly new, with an absence of more tangible serious concerns. If we mainly rely on “gut” reactions, feelings, and red flags, our assertions are less concrete, even if incredibly valid.
While we may be able to pinpoint solid indicators of potential trouble, our friends may refuse to acknowledge our thoughts or question our assessments. If they stumble upon similar gut reactions themselves, they may question their own assessments too. The tendency is to move forward, giving others the benefit of the doubt. Individuals with psychopathic features bank on this occurring.
Unless seriously scorched by individuals with psychopathic personality traits prior, many don’t necessarily understand that this is real. Therefore, when we discuss the red flags or warning signs their “great guys/gals” display, they may not like it. They may do the same things we once did and minimize the problems, make excuses for them, and take things at face value, freely giving trust, rather than insisting it be earned.
Our heads tend to spin as we watch. “Don’t they see,” we ask? We recognize what is happening. Sometimes, they do not. Sometimes, we watch as they fail to make the important connections.
Why does this happen? Most people want to feel special. Anyone who has encountered or become entangled with individuals with psychopathic traits knows that initially they do just that. So, listening to friends may not top any priority lists, when they are hearing and getting what they want from their new prospects.
This may be especially frustrating when we witness those around us who seem to make repeated dangerous or unhealthy choices.
Either way, deciding whether or not to speak up may not be an easy choice to make. However, I feel I must share and help those I care about when I see things going wrong. For me, my decision to warn friends is one that I have become comfortable with. Thankfully, it does not happen too frequently. At the same time, I also understand that every person is different and so are the circumstances.
Where do we draw the line?
Who don’t we tell? Is sharing information of this nature always appropriate? This is another personal decision. However, I tend to feel that we should limit these discussions to our friends or others with whom we are very close.
There are certain scenarios in which no amount of “evidence” will change the minds of others. Some situations have the potential to become quite volatile. Sharing our thoughts and feelings may not only be fruitless, they may also be dangerous. With new resolve to take care of ourselves, we should respect the limitations that are inherently part of certain situations.
This topic is one that I am certain we all share many different views on. Some of us may feel letting others know what may lie ahead is a moral obligation, others may feel that it is crossing the line. I don’t necessarily think there is a right or wrong answer that neatly fits in every situation. Rather, the circumstances may dictate our actions. Either way, it’s something to consider.
The ex P’s new victim did come to me, however she too, was disordered, and bluffed me into thinking she wanted to meet with me as she had “concerns about him”, and wondered if I would feel comfortable meeting her and helping her to “understand some things”. I did go to meet her, however, she set me up, in order to destroy me further. She had not only become P’s new interest, but in addition, his accomplice. It was horrible. It set me back months in my recovery. I had continuous nightmares and fears that had not existed until she became part of the hell that I had been healing from. Prior to her playing a part in the aftermath, I had extreme guilt about not informing her of what the P was made of. As it turned out, she was far worse in terms of P traits, than he.
An additional outcome to consider….
Shane, your experience is far from rare, unfortunately. Sorry you had to find it out first hand, but at least you did find it out.
Psychopaths do recruit others to help them smear, defame and torture you, and also it is not infrequent for two psychopaths to hook up together and cooperate for some period of time. My P son Patrick teamed up with my P DIL (his brother’s wife)as well as one of his x cell mates (also a diagnosed P) and they used and abused me, my egg donor and my other sons as victims. In the end, they turned on each other like a pack of rabid wolves when their plans fell apart, but it is best to avoid problems with the psychopaths, and isn’t usually a good idea to trust anyone who is involved with them…at least until you are sure that they are distanced from the psychopath.
Wow, that was certainly a hairy situation you were put in, Ox Drover. Thanks for your responce. Yes, so true, never a good idea to risk trusting anyone who is involved with the P in any way, just in case. Boy was that an experience I didn’t need to add to the evil things I had already been working so hard to recover from. Lesson learned! Never again! : )
Ox Drover, Have you ever checked out this website?
http://www.apa.org/pubs/databases/psycinfo/index.aspx
I just found it, recently and have found some pretty interesting publications. Maybe you know of it already, but just in case, not, thought I’d post link.
I think we are obligated to say somehting, what exactly that is is the hard part. The truth is, the person will only hear what we say to them when they are ready to anyway. My freinds were telling me in many ways for about 2 -3 years another one for about a year before I really started to say “really?” The one friend is the one who insisted I go get checked at the hospital and drove me there herself not accepting my no or maybe. If she hadnt, and I went back to my husband, I would probably be dead today… they told me I was lucky I landed the way I did.
SO, yes, speak up, but choose your words wisely and be prepared for them to not be heard for a while, or ever… but you will never forgive yourself if you dont speak up and something tragic happens. Dont minimize and assume the tragic wont happen… if oyu see the signs for real, the tragic will happen, its just a matter of when.
xoxo
Shane: That is a great point you bring up… I have mutual friends still and I am constantly on my guard with them as one sees my husband regularly and I wonder if they are covertly gaining info for him. I never thought about the new girl as a potential area for contention as I generally see them as his next victims… there have been 2 since our incident in Feb this year… and we are still married. I wanted to warn both of them, but the first is no longer with him that way… the second is and she has children… I want to run and tell her husband so he can stop it, but have been advised not to until all divorce is final and even after that was warned to choose words wisely… my lawyer stated that because my soon to be ex husband is crazy (her words) he will take me to court over anything, he wont win, but he would cause a lot of upheaval over me speaking even the truth to others… he would call it slander until a judge said otherwise, but he would still believe he was “victimized…
I think the original post implies the friend is a friend of yours, not the new person with your spath ex… but maybe I read it wrong. If it is supposed to be the new person with your spath ex, then yes, I think caution is warranted, no matter how badly you want to warn the person… My lawyer said it has to be enough that me and my kids are away from him now, I cannot stay up at night worrying about his new and future others, bc I cannot be the one to prevent anything more…
Talk about feeling like my hands are tied! You know what I mean though… catch 22.
I want to add one more thing to remember… the person with the xspath is enraptured by that person just as we were at one point… if we call them crazy, pot kettle bc we were once where that person is now. The same denial mechanisms and perhaps self esteem issues or pleasing tendencies ended us up with our xspath, are at work with the new “partner.”
In the past I was warned about a man my husband and I were doing business with….I brushed off the warning, and the man turned out to be a swindler that cost us DEARLY.
I went back to the person who warned me and thanked them…but at the time I was being “love bombed” in a business sense and wasn’t going to listen to the warning.
Ditto on a job I took. I was warned about my new boss…and I didn’t listen…turned out she was ABUSIVE to all employees, and about 6 months into the job she “went off on” me in a screaming match…and I left the job as soon as my notice was up.
I was fortunate that I didn’t HAVE to have that job, I had another job within 48 hours. But I found out that she had done the exact same rant on every other employee there and most of them NEEDED that job, couldn’t afford to leave.
Those are only two of the warnings I did not listen to.
On the other hand, I have WARNED PEOPLE and they did not listen.
We hear what we want to hear when we want to hear it and not before.
o my
I and other ex-gfs tried to warn the woman who replaced me. She listened, but was deaf and blind, and married him nonetheless. I did it because I thought it was the right thing to do, because I knew full well what he was and would do my share to prevent him from making more victims.
In some tiny way it created a bond to him and his life that at some point, much much later, I learned I didn’t want at all.
Anyhow, she believes she’s the one for him, that it’s different and she can save him as long as she stands by him more than I did or the others before me. It is HER LIFE LESON. And I even think that my and the other ex’s warning, only set her up for more cognitive dissonance. She has the full data on his patterns and misbehaviour from the get-go, and chose to be with him anyway… so it only makes the stakes higher for her to prove not to just herself, and him but also to us that it’s not the same with her, though of course it’s exactly the same.
I thought I could tell her. The whole village warned me he was a petty criminal and a good-for-nothing, his father and his brother made clear to me they didn’t trust him with money and that he was a liar. But none of the ex’s I knew warned me. It was acctually the sole piece of info and warning I would have listened to. I already knew and believed that patterns in previous relationships will be repeated.
And yet, I do not blame any of the other ex’s… Why? My life wasn’t their responsibility to save. My life was my own responsibility to keep safe.
Does that mean I believe I ought to keep it a secret? That he has a devious mind who sets up plans to get men involved to assault and rob his partner for revenge? That he can be a violent man who knocks out the teeth of other men (never laid a hand on me though)? That I suspect him of having raped a tourist who lodged at his home once? No, I don’t keep it a secret, but I ain’t flying to Nicaragua either to accuse him of all of this and hope the police would keep him in jail without me having to bribe them for it. I don’t keep it a secret, but I see no point in reminding his cousin or his mother of what a piece of shit he really is.
I endanged my fiancial credit, my emotional and mental sanity, my physical health and my career for two years in order to keep this man in my life. I’m not endangering any of it to keep him in my life by hunting him and his possible targets down now either.
I don’t expect other victims to sacrifice their safety, their health or anything else anymore after they escaped and sacrificed so much already.