This is an age old problem that seems to lack an easy answer. Do we warn others if we recognize that they are involved with individuals with psychopathic features? Is doing so a moral obligation or is it crossing the line?
Back in the day, it was easier. Sure, we saw our friends dating people we didn’t like or who made us uncomfortable, but we probably just thought of these individuals as “jerks.” We surmised that the relationships wouldn’t last and left it at that. Even if they did endure, expressing negative opinions on such matters tended to be taboo. As a result, typically, we said nothing.
Now, however, society is beginning to acknowledge and discuss psychopathy more readily. With this increasing awareness, we are coming to recognize that many of these individuals, who we once dismissed as mere “jerks,” are, in fact, pathological.
What do we do with our awareness?
Once educated on the matter, we are aware that things are more serious and worthy of warning. We also recognize how these individuals manipulate and control those around them, often very covertly, and in manners that evade the radar of many. Here, we know the dangers that can follow once involved with such disorder.
When this predicament presents itself, we know that our friends either don’t see the problems for what they are or don’t understand what it is they are dealing with. If they did, they probably would have dropped these guys (or gals) on their own. I don’t believe that anyone sets out to tangle with psychopathy. Yet, it happens. So…do we help?
That’s a tough one. Ultimately, it comes down to personal choices and beliefs. However, for me, I think we should (mostly)and I have.
How will they react?
The outcomes can be mixed. Sometimes, we strengthen the bonds of friendship, as there is camaraderie in such experiences. The torment is unique. Our friends may be relieved and thankful. They may appreciate that they are able to make sense of the things that were very, very wrong. At the same time, some may become angry and defensive. They may suggest that we have it “all wrong” or are simply “unsupportive.” If we choose to share our thoughts, we must be prepared for either outcome to occur.
It may be frustrating or disappointing to see and hear our friends defend individuals we know will ultimately bring them unhappiness or place them in harm’s way, but we cannot make their decisions for them. We can only share what we know, share how we know it, and unobtrusively make ourselves available. Sometimes, it helps. Sometimes, it does not.
Undoubtedly, this is a difficult subject to discuss. However, I have chosen to think of it this way; I know that if I saw my friends performing other dangerous acts, minimally, I would at least encourage them to move toward safety, even if I felt my suggestion might jeopardized the friendship. Why should this be any different?
It shouldn’t be, but it can be. Why? One reason is that there are fewer absolutes in these situations. Even if we recognize that our friends are in clear danger, the signs may be less obvious, especially to them. In the event that they were inches from the ledge of a tall building, there would be no questions. In that scenario, there’s no grey area. Clearly, the ledge is unsafe.
However, this may be less cut and dry, especially when the relationships are fairly new, with an absence of more tangible serious concerns. If we mainly rely on “gut” reactions, feelings, and red flags, our assertions are less concrete, even if incredibly valid.
While we may be able to pinpoint solid indicators of potential trouble, our friends may refuse to acknowledge our thoughts or question our assessments. If they stumble upon similar gut reactions themselves, they may question their own assessments too. The tendency is to move forward, giving others the benefit of the doubt. Individuals with psychopathic features bank on this occurring.
Unless seriously scorched by individuals with psychopathic personality traits prior, many don’t necessarily understand that this is real. Therefore, when we discuss the red flags or warning signs their “great guys/gals” display, they may not like it. They may do the same things we once did and minimize the problems, make excuses for them, and take things at face value, freely giving trust, rather than insisting it be earned.
Our heads tend to spin as we watch. “Don’t they see,” we ask? We recognize what is happening. Sometimes, they do not. Sometimes, we watch as they fail to make the important connections.
Why does this happen? Most people want to feel special. Anyone who has encountered or become entangled with individuals with psychopathic traits knows that initially they do just that. So, listening to friends may not top any priority lists, when they are hearing and getting what they want from their new prospects.
This may be especially frustrating when we witness those around us who seem to make repeated dangerous or unhealthy choices.
Either way, deciding whether or not to speak up may not be an easy choice to make. However, I feel I must share and help those I care about when I see things going wrong. For me, my decision to warn friends is one that I have become comfortable with. Thankfully, it does not happen too frequently. At the same time, I also understand that every person is different and so are the circumstances.
Where do we draw the line?
Who don’t we tell? Is sharing information of this nature always appropriate? This is another personal decision. However, I tend to feel that we should limit these discussions to our friends or others with whom we are very close.
There are certain scenarios in which no amount of “evidence” will change the minds of others. Some situations have the potential to become quite volatile. Sharing our thoughts and feelings may not only be fruitless, they may also be dangerous. With new resolve to take care of ourselves, we should respect the limitations that are inherently part of certain situations.
This topic is one that I am certain we all share many different views on. Some of us may feel letting others know what may lie ahead is a moral obligation, others may feel that it is crossing the line. I don’t necessarily think there is a right or wrong answer that neatly fits in every situation. Rather, the circumstances may dictate our actions. Either way, it’s something to consider.
2ndchance, this is always a very difficult topic. For some, it’s a burning moral imperative and they choose to voice their concerns, regardless. Others try to guage whether the risk of ending relationships is worth voicing their concerns. Still others feel that nothing that they say will be of any help to the “target,” and this is often the case: telling someone about what the spath has done or might do often drives the spath and its target closer together in a trauma-bond.
Try to imagine yourself before your spath experiences unfolded and a complete stranger and possible competitor approaching you to tell you how vile this man that you’re in love with is. Would you have believed them? Would he have agreed? Would he have successfully made the previous victim look like a raving lunatic? Try to think of how you were drawn in and apply it to this unsuspecting target.
If you must interact with this woman due to visitation, etc., there is an opportunity to remain available to her – not BFF’s, or ANYthing like that, but cordial, polite, and “reasonable.” It is possible that she may reach out to you, at some point, and you can affirm what she’s feeling and experiencing through understanding.
From my own personal experience, my attempts to “warn and inform” the first exspath’s targets (and, there were MANY) resulted in catastrophe. I was angry, bitter, and still had not healed from my experiences with him. So, my attempts caused me to look (and, act) like a complete loon. “See what I mean? She’s crazy…” I’m SURE was what he told these women. He was a master of manipulations, and once I got over some of the rage, I realized how crazy my actions DID make me look. I couldn’t even “save” myself from that person! How could I even expect to “save” someone else?
YES – it is a “normal” impulse, and it can become utterly obsessive. To turn that around and walk away to allow the chips to fall where they may is a challenge. But, IMHO, it’s the best approach.
Additionally, if you haven’t considered counseling therapy for yourself, I highly recommend it after exiting an abusive relationship. It doesn’t mean that we’re nuts. It means that we’ve experienced events and the subsequent carnage that follows, and it’s beyond our ability to manage, alone. Your local domestic violence hotline can provide a list of counseling therapists that “get it” and OFTEN provide their services at no cost to victims, whether there have been police reports, convictions, etc., or not.
Brightest healing blessings to you
First, child pornography is more than an addiction. This is like saying that Ted Bundy had an addiction to having sex with dead women. Noooooooooooo…he is demonic. People that have sex with children and dead bodies are psychopaths at their worst. More than a bad hair day. These folks need to be locked up and the key thrown away.
Warning other people? Yes, I attempted this after my path of 17 years walked out of our marriage. I did look like a CRAZY women. Months later, I have calmed down after I realized what I was dealing with and the need for me to get “healthier”. She is still with him and evidently as happy as a clam. I have suspected that my path has actually met another “path”. It’s path heaven! I dont know how long it will last, but this is her choice now. I have sent her the facts. There is truth in the statement that many of these folks are “learning” life’s lessons and that is what we are all here to do. However, I am for warning potential victims especially women with children.
Why do I believe this? This is the day of the internet. There are very few secrets anymore about people. We can almost find out what they had for dinner….oh, no wait – we can if they are huge facebookers….right? In this day and age all one has to do is plant the seed. If this person has a shred of sense there will be that “moment” when that mask slips…that moment when their gut finally says…”this is creepy”…or “I dont think he is telling me the truth.”….days later you may find this person on the internet – checking the links to “psychopath” or “credit reports.”
I believe that God gave us this brain and mouth for a reason. If there were not situations that demanded someone to speak “up”…we would still have ovens for burning people in Germany and Jim Jones would still be handing out poisoned coolaid to his loyal “followers”.
I will never stop speaking out. Peace to all of you.
Hope52, speaking out and speaking “to” is, for me, a different matter. I am quite vociferous about the facts with regard to sociopathy. I speak about what they do, how they troll, how I was snagged, and the aftermath of the experiences. I try to avoid giving information about what my experiences were simply because most people just “don’t get it” unless they’ve had similar experiences.
My problem with warning the next victim is that they have already been baited and lured into the belief that the spath is the greatest thing since the electric toaster. The new targets are already being isolated from their network of support so that the ony source of “information” is the spath. Former victims are painted as lunatics, as you know, and nothing we can say or do will convince the new targets that their emotional, financial, sexual, spiritual, and physical safety is at extreme risk.
I agree that it’s particularly frightening if children are involved. But, unless there exists what can be defined as “legal evidence” that someone is a risk to children, the former victims will be made to look bitter, vindictive, and slanderous – this is a hard, ugly truth, but it is a truth, nonetheless.
In my situation, the exspath became involved with a GROUP of people who entertained violent sexual interests. One playmate, in particular, is a young, dumb woman who has a young daughter. Knowing what I do about the exspath, I am in DREADFUL fear for this child’s safety. But, according to the legal definition, an adult’s personal sexual interests are of no concern unless it involves children. What this child could be exposed to is only an “idea,” and not a fact – not, yet. And, the new victim is so deeply enmeshed in this violent sexual culture that she will never accept facts, even if if those facts are on paper, in a Judgement, in writing, or in her face.
The only thing that I can do is to heal myself and attempt to educate others who remain oblivious.
Brightest blessings
To clarify on “adult’s sexual interests,” this includes bondage, torture, necrophilia, and a host of other extremely disturbing and vile acts. But, as long as it doesn’t involve a child, the standard view is, “If it’s between consenting adults, it’s none of our business.”
Sick? You bet.
Two friends who were also colleagues took great risk at a meeting 3 weeks ago. They asked if I had gone back to Hansen. We had dated for intense 11 weeks when he first broke up in a sudden viscious manner after a fantastic getaway over a cell phone issue. Within 1.5 hours, his texts, calls, flowers started and 4 days later, I gave him a 2nd chance. Just 12 days later, he broke up with me again accusing me of wanting to date a friend of his who I had zero interest in and only had spoken to at a business dinner. Again, it was viscious words then accusations then and this time it impacted a weekend trip that included kids. I’d had enough. In my mind, I was only going to give him a 2nd chance. After the 1st breakup, my friends intervened telling me that he was beyond jerk, that he was psycho and that they cared about me and even if it meant end of friendship, they could not sit back and let me go back to him without warning. They also made sure I knew that if I did go back, they’d still be there for me if anything went wrong. Well, if I had heeded their words, I wouldn’t be writing this, having just tested home alarm system and planning to file restraining orders. My ex- is prominent former CEO and has been stalking me for 3 weeks now, showing up at house and causing disturbances though I stay behind locked door. I blocked all his numbers and then the new # he bought just to get through my blocks. I’ve set up email and new email to go straight to archives. I’ve blocked social media channels. He is clever and seems to keep finding ways but I’ve managed to not see him. This is scary. Your site, given to me by one of these friends, was an eye-opener. He is not the first sociopath I’ve dated, I know now. I used to wonder what was wrong with me, why these types were attracted to me. Seeing your research was freeing, in that the qualities I have that attract them are actually positive. That relieved a lot of angst for me, and now I know “Just say no” to the bad ones because there are always red flags and I could have avoided this situation if I had listened much earlier. Yes, the relationship may seem short but he was pressuring me to see him nearly 6 days a week, sometimes 7, texted, called, would never give me space, and my self-employed work was suffering, my friendships were getting neglected and my time with my teen-aged son was beginning to be impacted. I realized I had accommodated Hansen to the maximum, practically let him run my schedule as if I were a child. When I couldn’t see him, he would threaten me subtly, saying, “Our relationship won’t work if we don’t spend time together.” That button worked for weeks on me. I was slowly giving up my power and my friends warned me that there would be little left of me if this continued, that he would decimate me. What really helped is that I realized after reading this site to treat my issue as if I was addicted to him and that anytime I spoke to him, emailed him back or engaged in any contact whatsoever, it would be akin to “falling off the wagon” and starting over. So, after a few slips, I have been firm in “no engagement” and feel stronger everyday. He is charming and handsome and we had a lot in common, the same story echoed here. Even if some of that was true, the meanness and lack of kindness is not love to me. That was another “a ha.” He keeps telling me how much he loves me, wants to marry me, etc. and I resolved that perhaps he does love me in his twisted way, but that my agreement about what love is differs drastically from his so that our agreement about “love” is NOT a match. I treasure my friends and wrote them both thank you letters for caring so much that they were willing to risk our friendship rather than see me get mixed up with a creep. I hope now that this doesn’t end in physical harm to me.
I was the eldest of four children raised by a psychopathic parent, I then married one and had three children. I divorced and then married another one and then divorced again. Two of my children have children of their own. In all that time I lived in a nightmare that I couldn’t make sense of. I knew something was wrong, but I just couldn’t work out what. I was frightened but I didn’t know what I was so scared of. I went to so many professional people for help. The first time I tried to get help was when I was 8 years old. I feel like I have spent a lifetime trying to protect my siblings and my children from something I couldn’t see and I wasn’t able to. No one could help me. Recently when my adult children who were so close to me suddenly became estranged from me and from each other I again looked for help and then a telephone counsellor told me I was dealing with a psychopath. It was a life changing moment. I have lost so much but I finally have my freedom. If I had only known all those years ago life would have been different for all of us. The only pain left that I have is the new awareness that my adult children are in relationships with psychopaths and two of them have small children. I have seen terrible things happening to my children and my grandchildren all without real evidence and I have seen the same confusion and fear in all their faces. I know my children have been to psychologists looking for help that don’t get it and come away worse off, but I know they don’t want to hear anything from me. I worry that if and when they do finally realise and they have suffered and I haven’t said anything that I will feel like I have let them down again. I want so much to protect my grandchildren who I know are being abused but what I do could also make things worse. My friends have suggested saying nothing and just being there for them when they need me. Knowing what is morally right or what is crossing the line is extremely difficult and can be quite painful.
Truthspeak – Necrophilia – or sex with a corpse is a Class D Felony in the majority of the United States. Unwanted sexual acts are physical abuse. Witnessing these types of sexual acts damages the brains of children and can create nightmare psychological damage for both children and adults. If you know anyone committing necrophia turn them into the authorities. I must say I am concerned about your post about sex. Are you in therapy? Have you suffered sex abuse? These are acts of violence. Innocent people are drawn into these groups and all of these behaviors can lead to more serious abuse.
Tmarie – “love is kind” – Cornithians 13:4. If this man is doing these things to you RUN dont walk to the local police to file stalking charges and protective orders. Reach out to your local abuse shelter for counseling and legal advice. If you do not have a domestic abuse center nearby – contact Victim’s Assistance at your local police office. If you live in a small town with a disinterest in your concerns remember law enforcement is another area for psychopaths to work. I would consider moving to another city. GET AWAY.
Maree – Scary stuff you posted. The NUMBER ONE observation I have made about our so called “therapists” is that MOST are not worth the cost of their diploma. How the heck do you go to college for four years and then a master’s degree and NOT know about personality disorders? Also, realize that psychotherapy is a major MAGNET for psychopaths. I am not so sure there is a huge difference between the two – sociopaths and psychopaths. They are both LOW conscience personality disorders. Psychopaths actually have been born with a brain anomaly. Although the brains of children raised in violent homes will change from the violence experienced. This is now a proven fact. If you think your children are being physcially abused, emotionally abused or sexually abuse reach out to your local Domestic Abuse center for help.
It’s time to stop abuse of our children. If you feel that your grandchildren are suffering – go with your gut and contact the local authorities.
I will pray for your strength and peace to make the right decision for your grandchildren and your family. Peace.
Hope52, I wrote: ~~To clarify on “adult’s sexual interests,” this includes bondage, torture, necrophilia, and a host of other extremely disturbing and vile acts~~
What I typed was “interests,” not known sexual violation of corpses.
Thank you for your clarifications.
Truthspeak…hmmmm…I dont know we may be splitting hairs here….having an “interest” in bondage, torture, necrophilia and other disturbing acts” to me is “like” having an “interest” in pedophia, child prostitution, and other disturbing behaviors. Healthy people are not interested in these things. Sorry, my RED flag warning would be going off big time. I would probably alert the authoritites and make other friends. Something is wrong with these people with interests such as the above. An accident waiting to happen.
Ok, perhaps a clarification…”I am intersted in learning how to educate people about the dangers of deviant sexual behaviors.” Now I could go with that perhaps as a theory of why someone is “interested” in having sex with a corpse.