This is an age old problem that seems to lack an easy answer. Do we warn others if we recognize that they are involved with individuals with psychopathic features? Is doing so a moral obligation or is it crossing the line?
Back in the day, it was easier. Sure, we saw our friends dating people we didn’t like or who made us uncomfortable, but we probably just thought of these individuals as “jerks.” We surmised that the relationships wouldn’t last and left it at that. Even if they did endure, expressing negative opinions on such matters tended to be taboo. As a result, typically, we said nothing.
Now, however, society is beginning to acknowledge and discuss psychopathy more readily. With this increasing awareness, we are coming to recognize that many of these individuals, who we once dismissed as mere “jerks,” are, in fact, pathological.
What do we do with our awareness?
Once educated on the matter, we are aware that things are more serious and worthy of warning. We also recognize how these individuals manipulate and control those around them, often very covertly, and in manners that evade the radar of many. Here, we know the dangers that can follow once involved with such disorder.
When this predicament presents itself, we know that our friends either don’t see the problems for what they are or don’t understand what it is they are dealing with. If they did, they probably would have dropped these guys (or gals) on their own. I don’t believe that anyone sets out to tangle with psychopathy. Yet, it happens. So…do we help?
That’s a tough one. Ultimately, it comes down to personal choices and beliefs. However, for me, I think we should (mostly)and I have.
How will they react?
The outcomes can be mixed. Sometimes, we strengthen the bonds of friendship, as there is camaraderie in such experiences. The torment is unique. Our friends may be relieved and thankful. They may appreciate that they are able to make sense of the things that were very, very wrong. At the same time, some may become angry and defensive. They may suggest that we have it “all wrong” or are simply “unsupportive.” If we choose to share our thoughts, we must be prepared for either outcome to occur.
It may be frustrating or disappointing to see and hear our friends defend individuals we know will ultimately bring them unhappiness or place them in harm’s way, but we cannot make their decisions for them. We can only share what we know, share how we know it, and unobtrusively make ourselves available. Sometimes, it helps. Sometimes, it does not.
Undoubtedly, this is a difficult subject to discuss. However, I have chosen to think of it this way; I know that if I saw my friends performing other dangerous acts, minimally, I would at least encourage them to move toward safety, even if I felt my suggestion might jeopardized the friendship. Why should this be any different?
It shouldn’t be, but it can be. Why? One reason is that there are fewer absolutes in these situations. Even if we recognize that our friends are in clear danger, the signs may be less obvious, especially to them. In the event that they were inches from the ledge of a tall building, there would be no questions. In that scenario, there’s no grey area. Clearly, the ledge is unsafe.
However, this may be less cut and dry, especially when the relationships are fairly new, with an absence of more tangible serious concerns. If we mainly rely on “gut” reactions, feelings, and red flags, our assertions are less concrete, even if incredibly valid.
While we may be able to pinpoint solid indicators of potential trouble, our friends may refuse to acknowledge our thoughts or question our assessments. If they stumble upon similar gut reactions themselves, they may question their own assessments too. The tendency is to move forward, giving others the benefit of the doubt. Individuals with psychopathic features bank on this occurring.
Unless seriously scorched by individuals with psychopathic personality traits prior, many don’t necessarily understand that this is real. Therefore, when we discuss the red flags or warning signs their “great guys/gals” display, they may not like it. They may do the same things we once did and minimize the problems, make excuses for them, and take things at face value, freely giving trust, rather than insisting it be earned.
Our heads tend to spin as we watch. “Don’t they see,” we ask? We recognize what is happening. Sometimes, they do not. Sometimes, we watch as they fail to make the important connections.
Why does this happen? Most people want to feel special. Anyone who has encountered or become entangled with individuals with psychopathic traits knows that initially they do just that. So, listening to friends may not top any priority lists, when they are hearing and getting what they want from their new prospects.
This may be especially frustrating when we witness those around us who seem to make repeated dangerous or unhealthy choices.
Either way, deciding whether or not to speak up may not be an easy choice to make. However, I feel I must share and help those I care about when I see things going wrong. For me, my decision to warn friends is one that I have become comfortable with. Thankfully, it does not happen too frequently. At the same time, I also understand that every person is different and so are the circumstances.
Where do we draw the line?
Who don’t we tell? Is sharing information of this nature always appropriate? This is another personal decision. However, I tend to feel that we should limit these discussions to our friends or others with whom we are very close.
There are certain scenarios in which no amount of “evidence” will change the minds of others. Some situations have the potential to become quite volatile. Sharing our thoughts and feelings may not only be fruitless, they may also be dangerous. With new resolve to take care of ourselves, we should respect the limitations that are inherently part of certain situations.
This topic is one that I am certain we all share many different views on. Some of us may feel letting others know what may lie ahead is a moral obligation, others may feel that it is crossing the line. I don’t necessarily think there is a right or wrong answer that neatly fits in every situation. Rather, the circumstances may dictate our actions. Either way, it’s something to consider.
Hens, yah…..he was just projecting the fact that he was not to be trusted onto you.
Sheeesh….. Under no circumstances would I ever entertain the notion of the exspath re-entering my life. I will never speak to him, again, and I’m treating him as if he’s simply a bit of dust that blew off of something. He’s gone, gone, and GONE, and I couldn’t feel more relieved, even if it’s the aftermath of the whole experience with him.
No….if anyone had ever tried to “warn” me, before, I would NEVER have listened. I was “in love,” and that meant “second chances” and “benefit of the doubt.”
Brightest blessings
Truthspeak<
I dont want him back, I dont want to ever talk to him again. Has been four and half years NC. Not that he hasn't tried a few time's to re-enter my life, I did not take the bait.
However I would like to look him in the eye's one more time, I dont need to say a thing, I just want to look at what almost killed me for what I now know it to be. I want to look evil in the eye and let it know it has no power over me.
Hey guys,
I wanted to post that I’ve had no contact with the ex, but he showed up at my barn saturday nite during a team penning. I said hi let him talk then excused myself and left. It was hard, he was cold, I don’t know why he showed up as he doesn’t really know anyone there, but me. I felt like I’d been punched in the gut and the older guy who hauls me talked to me awhile and said it was my choice to leave or stay and he wouldn’t judge me either way.
Yesterday, I get a text from a number I don’t know asking me to call sounds like a girl so I called to see who it was. It was him. He’s in trouble as he drove on dead tags for 18 mths and had no insurance. He has a CDL and is really in trouble. He had the nerve to ask me to drive 45 minutes to pick him up take him to the court commissioner and then home today. I told him and it wasn’t a lie that I’m trying to get another vehicle myself and if the money was preapproved I needed to take care of that today. So I’m at work with my cell turned off so I can’t hear his call or text and I have no voice mail set up so no voice mail. I feel bad he got into trouble, but he asked if I turned him in, which I didn’t, out of spite. He knows me better than that. I know with this he will probably lose his job and with the fines his truck inpounded he will most likely have to go back to VA where his family is. The good news is I probably won’t see him anymore or hear from him. Which is kind of a relief.
-Jennifer
PS It was a downer he showed up as I went to a stock horse show and roped my first calf, got the best score in reining I’ve ever gotten and had a great day. I’m trying not to let him ruin it. Oh and I got preapproval on the car so I can pay for it and then start working towards getting my dually.
MDCowgirl, I’m sorry that he tried to worm his way back, for whatever purpose. But, rest assured, whatever he had in mind would not have ended happily.
GOOD FOR YOU for staying NC, and BLOCK his numbers whenever he changes them. You don’t really want to know what’s happening to him, do you?
Congratulations on your event – cutting and reigning are truly challenging. What a superb thing for you to have in your life!!!!
Hens…..I understand what you’re saying. I don’t particularly want to do that, myself, but I can certainly understand why someone else might.
HUGS TO YOU!!!!
Hens,
Be careful. I thought I could do that and he targeted our adult daughter who hardly knew him. Now he has my daughter and grandchildren and I don’t anymore
Bertha,
He is now with your daughter and grandchildren? OH my, I can not think of any thing worse than that. My heart goes out to you.
Bertha, yes….I echo Hens’ sentiments. I am so sorry that things turned out the way that they have.
Brightest blessings
So, I am living in this situation of renting living space from a colleague that I’ve known for a number of years. This person is very intelligent, but very insecure, and always has been. He’s “different” in that he likes to play fantasy games (NOT online ones, but in group tournaments), is a sci-fi fan, and a virtual walking encyclopedia of comics facts, legend, and so forth. He’s an amazing artist, and he possesses a heart of true gold.
The girlfriend that is living with him was probably his second girlfriend and he met her in college. These two individuals come from VERY different backgrounds. His was a middle-class environment, and hers was an environment of housing projects and a very, very needy mother who went from one abusive relationship to another.
This girlfriend has interacted with me on an extremely passive/aggresive level since my colleague invited me to stay with him until I was able to sort out the wreckage of my life. That, I can handle. She’s a rude, selfish, and socially ignorant person, and that’s all there is to that.
But, what I can clearly see is her deliberate manipulations to dismantle this colleague’s life and network of friends. For instance, she deliberately manipulated this man from attending to business obligations so that he could take her to some parade in another town. She has demonstrated extremely inappropriate behaviors in FRONT of people – like twisting his nipples, threatening to harm him, attempting to “horseplay” and squealing INJURY even as she egged him on to wrestle some more, and has actually told him “I hate you,” when playing board games, cards, or other mundane events.
She is dismantling his network of friends by “disallowing” get-togethers to watch sci-fi movies, as a group. “That is NEVER going to happen,” was one response she made when I asked her about it. I thought she was joking. Then, when the topic came up, again, she emphatically said to his face, “I am NOT interested in watching STUPID movies for hours and hours.” Okay….there’s another television in this house that has cable, and it’s in THEIR bedroom. This is coming from the person who will actually enter into the living room (the only place where I can watch any programming), changes the channel and forces everyone to either watch reality programs, or leave the room. I always choose the latter, because I cannot tolerate such programs as, “My Big Fat Gypsy Wedding,” or, “Bad Girls Club,” or “Sister Wives,” or “Teen Moms,” and the rest. This young woman even RECORDS these programs so that she can view 8-hour marathons of this tripe on weekends, and she has the nerve to call epic movies “Stupid?!”
So………….the point of this whole rant is that I can see this situation for what it is. She hooked this guy through sex. She believes that she has hit the social and financial Jackpot, and she intends to marry this man, at all costs. She also intends to have children with him, but she will never, by her own admission, raise these children. She will have them in daycare at 6 weeks because she has admitted that she can’t handle that kind of committment.
I am NOT going to tell my friend and colleague what I can clearly see. Would it help? No, he would only draw closer to her and further away from everyone who cares about him. Because she has his ear on all things and wields SUCH a tremendous control over his actions through coersion and manipulations (and, physical humiliation), there will be a train wreck of epic proportions for this man, and I do not have the power to stop it.
Instead, I’m going to remain is friend, remain cordial with the creature that he’s in love with, and remain available if he ever needs a friend.
Truthspeak,
My longest and one of my three best friends is involved with someone I believe to probably be a spath. They are almost together for a year now.
He’s divorced and has a 5 year old son. He had this long ago youth love of the past who had always remained in love with him but had moved on and got married. He then went after her and the woman divorced her husband to finally have this relationship with him. But not long after that he met my friend and started an affair with her, while claiming to be racked with guilt over having the other woman divorce her husband for him. By November my friend was starting to realize she couldn’t go on like that, and gave him an ultimatum. In December he chose her, dumped the woman who had divorced her husband, and she practically moved in with him at the other side of Belgium. But she hasn’t rented out her apartment yet, because they still use it as a place to stay overnight when they go out in Antwerp. The move to the other side of Belgium of course isolates her physically from her parents and brother, from her lifelong friends and made her going to work horror drives of 3 hours going and 3 hours back. She was a high level manager for 12 years at the same company, and wished to get to even a higher level but was told there were no positions available. So, in February she decided she would quit the firm, and brokered a deal where she would work another 3 months but get paid until the end of the year 2012. She hasn’t worked since the start of June, and apparently her partner who has several design businesses didn’t need to work much either… so they’ve been living the good life of having an income and not needing to work.
I think she deserves a time off for a while and do spontaneous stuff like a last minute getaway and such, because she always worked so hard, feeling so conscious about her responsibilties, etc… I’m happy she finally gets the chance to experience herself in a committed relationship (that is where she feels committed, because she always had a very hard time falling in love with anyone); she gets to connect with her soft side and grow some wild hairs. But at the same time I am fully convinced she’s doing it with the wrong man.
She admits he’s “strange” and “arrogant” but feels he’s the man of her life. And yes he’s horribly arrogant. The first time I met him he basically tried to put me down on any subject we talked about and showed open disdain for teachers. Anyway, he was very rude. But the next time I saw him, he has made efforts to get on my good side. I gather that it seemed less of an effort to pretend to befriend me, because she and I meet only 4-5 times a year and at the same time I am the longest friend in her life (we’ve been friends since I was 16 and she 17). Noone has ever truly been able to come between that even if people often do not comprehend how two such different people can respect each other so well for so long.
Last night I saw her (and him of course) again after months. Because of me packing my stuff for the move in 3 weeks, I discovered some photography project I had to do during my master studies. I had forgotten all about it and discovered I had used her parents’ home and house as the subject. For me it’s pretty meaningless nowadays and something I’d not consider moving along to the new apartment, but I knew her parents would cherish it… they sold the house and hardware shop a couple of years ago, and it has been broken down… that house simply does not exist anymore. It’s a superb memoribilia gift for her and her family. So, that’s the reason why we ended up meeting at my favourite pub.
The things he did though have only deepened my distrust of him though I was fully able to hide that fact. He was trying to pretend to be my buddy, then when he noticed two strangers size me up he tried to pawn me off (of course with a lot of honey smearing and flattery about my appearance, my physics studies, being a fellow designer in degree like him, me being a true Antwerp citizen – we’re called the proud ones by other Belgians, etc)… I politely let him and those men know I am not into casual sex (anymore). But throughout the evening he showed a lot of interest in my breasts, the firmness, etc… sometimes in front of my best friend, and towards the end of the evening in a conversation I had with him while my friend was talking to other people he mentioned there being three women who claim he’s the man of their lives and they are still waiting for him, would drop any new partner instantly for him, and how there must be something wrong with them mentally to do that. One of those three women though he confessed is someone that if he would be alone with for 10 minutes they would be instantly all over each other, even though he knows it would never work between them. I gather that must be the woman he dumped for my best friend, because he also mentioned he couldn’t mention her name to my best friend without provoking my friend.
Pfff, I’m quite sure this creep probably fantasised about me last night, and I’m sure that at some point he’ll try to tell my friend I came on to him in order to make her drop me. Luckily we never ever fell for the same men and she does know I’m not a huge personal fan of him, and I told her yesterday of my biggest love possibly re-entering my life. I hope that lifetime experience will guard her from ever believing such a lie from him at some point in the future.
Anyhow, I have decided not to drop any hint of my true dislike and distrust of him to her anymore. She has to go the full ride unfortunately. My heart nearly breaks for her, but I want to be able to be there for her when her life falls apart because of him at some point. I want her to be able to come to me without fearing a “I told you so”. I gave her my opinion at the start of it all almost a year ago and she made her choice, and I cannot be anything but be supportive of her, and I will put up with his company somewhat for her.