This is an age old problem that seems to lack an easy answer. Do we warn others if we recognize that they are involved with individuals with psychopathic features? Is doing so a moral obligation or is it crossing the line?
Back in the day, it was easier. Sure, we saw our friends dating people we didn’t like or who made us uncomfortable, but we probably just thought of these individuals as “jerks.” We surmised that the relationships wouldn’t last and left it at that. Even if they did endure, expressing negative opinions on such matters tended to be taboo. As a result, typically, we said nothing.
Now, however, society is beginning to acknowledge and discuss psychopathy more readily. With this increasing awareness, we are coming to recognize that many of these individuals, who we once dismissed as mere “jerks,” are, in fact, pathological.
What do we do with our awareness?
Once educated on the matter, we are aware that things are more serious and worthy of warning. We also recognize how these individuals manipulate and control those around them, often very covertly, and in manners that evade the radar of many. Here, we know the dangers that can follow once involved with such disorder.
When this predicament presents itself, we know that our friends either don’t see the problems for what they are or don’t understand what it is they are dealing with. If they did, they probably would have dropped these guys (or gals) on their own. I don’t believe that anyone sets out to tangle with psychopathy. Yet, it happens. So…do we help?
That’s a tough one. Ultimately, it comes down to personal choices and beliefs. However, for me, I think we should (mostly)and I have.
How will they react?
The outcomes can be mixed. Sometimes, we strengthen the bonds of friendship, as there is camaraderie in such experiences. The torment is unique. Our friends may be relieved and thankful. They may appreciate that they are able to make sense of the things that were very, very wrong. At the same time, some may become angry and defensive. They may suggest that we have it “all wrong” or are simply “unsupportive.” If we choose to share our thoughts, we must be prepared for either outcome to occur.
It may be frustrating or disappointing to see and hear our friends defend individuals we know will ultimately bring them unhappiness or place them in harm’s way, but we cannot make their decisions for them. We can only share what we know, share how we know it, and unobtrusively make ourselves available. Sometimes, it helps. Sometimes, it does not.
Undoubtedly, this is a difficult subject to discuss. However, I have chosen to think of it this way; I know that if I saw my friends performing other dangerous acts, minimally, I would at least encourage them to move toward safety, even if I felt my suggestion might jeopardized the friendship. Why should this be any different?
It shouldn’t be, but it can be. Why? One reason is that there are fewer absolutes in these situations. Even if we recognize that our friends are in clear danger, the signs may be less obvious, especially to them. In the event that they were inches from the ledge of a tall building, there would be no questions. In that scenario, there’s no grey area. Clearly, the ledge is unsafe.
However, this may be less cut and dry, especially when the relationships are fairly new, with an absence of more tangible serious concerns. If we mainly rely on “gut” reactions, feelings, and red flags, our assertions are less concrete, even if incredibly valid.
While we may be able to pinpoint solid indicators of potential trouble, our friends may refuse to acknowledge our thoughts or question our assessments. If they stumble upon similar gut reactions themselves, they may question their own assessments too. The tendency is to move forward, giving others the benefit of the doubt. Individuals with psychopathic features bank on this occurring.
Unless seriously scorched by individuals with psychopathic personality traits prior, many don’t necessarily understand that this is real. Therefore, when we discuss the red flags or warning signs their “great guys/gals” display, they may not like it. They may do the same things we once did and minimize the problems, make excuses for them, and take things at face value, freely giving trust, rather than insisting it be earned.
Our heads tend to spin as we watch. “Don’t they see,” we ask? We recognize what is happening. Sometimes, they do not. Sometimes, we watch as they fail to make the important connections.
Why does this happen? Most people want to feel special. Anyone who has encountered or become entangled with individuals with psychopathic traits knows that initially they do just that. So, listening to friends may not top any priority lists, when they are hearing and getting what they want from their new prospects.
This may be especially frustrating when we witness those around us who seem to make repeated dangerous or unhealthy choices.
Either way, deciding whether or not to speak up may not be an easy choice to make. However, I feel I must share and help those I care about when I see things going wrong. For me, my decision to warn friends is one that I have become comfortable with. Thankfully, it does not happen too frequently. At the same time, I also understand that every person is different and so are the circumstances.
Where do we draw the line?
Who don’t we tell? Is sharing information of this nature always appropriate? This is another personal decision. However, I tend to feel that we should limit these discussions to our friends or others with whom we are very close.
There are certain scenarios in which no amount of “evidence” will change the minds of others. Some situations have the potential to become quite volatile. Sharing our thoughts and feelings may not only be fruitless, they may also be dangerous. With new resolve to take care of ourselves, we should respect the limitations that are inherently part of certain situations.
This topic is one that I am certain we all share many different views on. Some of us may feel letting others know what may lie ahead is a moral obligation, others may feel that it is crossing the line. I don’t necessarily think there is a right or wrong answer that neatly fits in every situation. Rather, the circumstances may dictate our actions. Either way, it’s something to consider.
Truth and Darwinsmom,
I got slimed just reading about your friends. It’s sad that they don’t see it.
It’s true that the awakening has changed us. I used to accept all kinds of bad behavior with excuses. Just because I don’t think the way a spath does, I couldn’t imagine it. I attributed my own thinking to their behavior, that’s where I came up with excuses for them.
So part of my problem was lack of imagination, I guess.
yes Sky, just reading about Truthy’s female roommate put me in a bad ass mood ~!
After reading SO MUCH of what is here — and after seeking counsel from people I trust — I have decided that (I AM going to speak to my daughter about this first) that I probably AM going to send a letter to IT’s wife, chronicling the past year of enmeshment with her husband. I am not doing this for vengeance. I am not doing it to “warn” her – as I suspect that she MUST know he is up to no good — at some level. I mean – for GOd’s sake — the man was at our house for the better part of the last year. What WAS he telling her? I want to do this for ME. It’s the only way I feel that I can wash my hands of this completely and start fresh. I just feel the need to tell her what he did. Having been married to someone who was a cheater and liar and abuser — I KNOW that had someone had the moral courage to tell me what they know — I WOULD have bailed — I would have gotten out and saved myself and my child immeasurable pain. For me — telling her is rectifying what DID NOT happen in my situation — and regardless of how she reacts — or chooses NOT to react (I will NOT KNOW — as I will completely excise It and his family from my life) — this is my way of getting closure. It’s my way of having the last word. And if it’s for naught — so far as she is concerned — then so be it. SHe will have to live with the fact that she ignored the truth. I will be able to live with the fact that I did what I could to tell the truth — and I can rest and be serene with that.
I am going to tell her that we have a police report on file — and I am going to alert the police to the fact that I have seen him around my home — and then I am going to let nature take its course.
This is the only way I can get closure from this — and that is very important to me.
I do not think he will do anything. If he does — then he will be arrested and in jail. and I can certainly live with that. I have people around me all the time — so I am not afraid.
I just can;t stand living in what feels like limbo. I have to let this go — and I can;t see my way to do that unless I send this letter. Just sayin’.
kathie2: we each have to make our own choices and decisions based upon the validations and information and sense of self that we have about us. Nobody can tell you what you need to do or not do. Those choices are all up to you. I know for me, personally, ‘outing’ “IT” only served to make the dramarama more perpetuating; but that was just my experience. The only thing it really did was feed that perpetuation of drama and really served no intent. I found the best thing to do was just cut it off and crumple it up and throw it in the trash and move forward. But, that was my experience. Each of us is surely different.
I wish you well with your endeavors.
I understand that ‘limbo’ feeling…I have been doing it for five years, non stop, 24/7…I am starting to let go of it all now with the help of some amazing therapsits and the assistance of lexapro for my ptsd and depression.
Therapy has absolutely helped me TREMENDOUSLY.
Yes, I have been ‘letting go’ of my situation for the last five years and it just seems to never go away.
Like a cockroach…once you see one, you can just bet there are more! A whole chorus line of them.
I fumigate and clean and lo and behold, more ‘minions’ appear….I mean, I am just sayin…
Blessings to you and your Daughter on your journey.
May you find peace and validation in your choices and decisions. Always be safe.
Dupey
Hens, I am so sorry my stituation ruined your mood….:-( I was venting a bit, but I was also demonstrating that I’m living in this situation and I cannot tell my colleague what I can clearly see with ANY sense of comfort.
The other day, in front of me, she insisted that he give up his tournaments by saying, “Don’t you think it’s time you gave that up?” I nearly shit twice and went blind!!! He’s been involved in these tournaments ever since he was a KID – like 15 years that he’s been doing this with his closest friends!!
Another interesting thing about this gal – when she moved in here over a year ago, my colleague’s best friend and his mother were living here (mom & dad divorced when he was in college). I don’t know how long it took, but BOTH of these people left this house. The mother that owns it, and the best friend who had lived here for 3 years with my colleague.
Kathie2, how long have you been out of the spath environment? I mean, how long has it been since you’ve nad no contact? There’s a specific reason that I ask this, and I’ll get to that, later.
But, for now…..I would ask you to write many, many drafts of what you want to say BEFORE (emphasis, not yelling) you send ANYthing (more emphasis).
Brightest blessings
I don’t know what to do. I hear the wisdom of just “letting it go — put it (IT) in the trash — but every day no matter HOW I try to avoid this — it comes back to haunt me. I am filled with terror every time I see a white truck or a guy on a motorcycle with tattoos (the guy — not the bike lol — see I haven’t lost my sense of humor!) I get up in the morning and shower in the shower that HE fixed. My entire house is filled with things that he fixed or moved or used…. My car has a scratch on the trunk from where I accidently backed into his truck… I drive to work past where he lives… or if I go to my regular school job, I drive past either the place where he and my daughter met 0r I drive past the trailer park where he said he lived with his mom. Home Depot is out because he goes there for supplies for his business. I went to Target today and almost had a meltdown fearing that I would run into him again like I did on Sunday. God knows that today I would not have reacted with grace. I cried the whole way home.
I bought myself a journal at the suggestion of my therapist so that I could chronicle my “recovery” – and all I could think of as I walke ddown the aisle is how my daughter and I were there to buy the same thing for him when he said he had cancer and could no longer speak.
EVERYTHING reminds me of this man… I don’t understand why I am reacting to this so terribly and with such emotional intensity. My therapist says that he messed up my mind and psyche so thoroughly — he knew just which buttons to push — cancer ( both my parents died from cancer within the past 8 years), faith, fear for my daughter (he vowed to always keep her safe — told me I’d never have to worry when she was with him) and then the betrayal — which is so very reminiscent of what my ex-husband did to us. Fran (therapist) says I am suffering from PTSD. I don’t know what the symptoms are — all I can tell you is that I am shaking, and I find it hard to breathe and I feel like someone has kicked me in the stomach. and it happens most every day.
I have not spoken to him since Sunday — and that was the first time since 18 June, when we found out. I have not driven past his house in I do not know how long — I changed my route to work so that I could avoid that. I do not search for him on the internet. I am trying very hard to not do or seek anything that is any way connected with this man. I don’t know what else to do.
I have written and re-written drafts of this letter.. and given them to my therapist. I have had my friends review the letter (just two — my besties) –and my letter is kind and concerned and caring — it is NOT vindictive or mean in any way. It presents facts — facts that are substantiated by e-mails, text messages, gifts. cards. picture, etc.
i just feel sick and I want to go to sleep and not wake up — or wake up to find that this is all gone away.
I know that will not happen. I just do not know what to do to escape this pain.
Sorry to be a downer again today. I am just blue.
Kathie, How is your daughter coping with all this?
She is four hours away in another town. She keeps busy with her job and tries not to think about it. She doesn;t like to talk about it because we both get so upset. I need to pull myself together or I will be useless to help her.
kathie,
I wouldn’t write that letter.
I would tell her in person. Don’t give him ammunition: the letter.
Also, I would talk to you daughter about it. it was her relationship right?
You are right, though about doing it for yourself. Let her know that this is the case. Tell her you are doing for her what you would want others to do for you.
You are right, by keeping a secret for the spath, we become complicit, we enable the mofo’s. We become slimed with guilt.
Of course you will need to plan this by finding out where she is at what time of day and where he is so that you can be sure you are safe.
If you have any pictures, take those along for evidence.
The way that spaths slime us is with their CONSTANT emotional manipulations. Normal people aren’t accustomed to having their emotions primed and pumped constantly. We don’t even notice what they are doing. Our emotions work on autopilot. By the time they are done with us, we have adrenal fatigue and don’t know it.
I hope you are able to get this done soon and get it over with. Then you can start working on healing. Heal your emotional overload and heal the hurt that made you vulnerable to him and to your exhusband. Then you’ll be able to say that you’ve taken his shit and made fertilizer.
Edit: I just saw your response to Kim.
Okay leave your daughter out of it. It sounds like she’s tired of the drama and can move on. But you can still do what you need to for yourself.
.