This is an age old problem that seems to lack an easy answer. Do we warn others if we recognize that they are involved with individuals with psychopathic features? Is doing so a moral obligation or is it crossing the line?
Back in the day, it was easier. Sure, we saw our friends dating people we didn’t like or who made us uncomfortable, but we probably just thought of these individuals as “jerks.” We surmised that the relationships wouldn’t last and left it at that. Even if they did endure, expressing negative opinions on such matters tended to be taboo. As a result, typically, we said nothing.
Now, however, society is beginning to acknowledge and discuss psychopathy more readily. With this increasing awareness, we are coming to recognize that many of these individuals, who we once dismissed as mere “jerks,” are, in fact, pathological.
What do we do with our awareness?
Once educated on the matter, we are aware that things are more serious and worthy of warning. We also recognize how these individuals manipulate and control those around them, often very covertly, and in manners that evade the radar of many. Here, we know the dangers that can follow once involved with such disorder.
When this predicament presents itself, we know that our friends either don’t see the problems for what they are or don’t understand what it is they are dealing with. If they did, they probably would have dropped these guys (or gals) on their own. I don’t believe that anyone sets out to tangle with psychopathy. Yet, it happens. So…do we help?
That’s a tough one. Ultimately, it comes down to personal choices and beliefs. However, for me, I think we should (mostly)and I have.
How will they react?
The outcomes can be mixed. Sometimes, we strengthen the bonds of friendship, as there is camaraderie in such experiences. The torment is unique. Our friends may be relieved and thankful. They may appreciate that they are able to make sense of the things that were very, very wrong. At the same time, some may become angry and defensive. They may suggest that we have it “all wrong” or are simply “unsupportive.” If we choose to share our thoughts, we must be prepared for either outcome to occur.
It may be frustrating or disappointing to see and hear our friends defend individuals we know will ultimately bring them unhappiness or place them in harm’s way, but we cannot make their decisions for them. We can only share what we know, share how we know it, and unobtrusively make ourselves available. Sometimes, it helps. Sometimes, it does not.
Undoubtedly, this is a difficult subject to discuss. However, I have chosen to think of it this way; I know that if I saw my friends performing other dangerous acts, minimally, I would at least encourage them to move toward safety, even if I felt my suggestion might jeopardized the friendship. Why should this be any different?
It shouldn’t be, but it can be. Why? One reason is that there are fewer absolutes in these situations. Even if we recognize that our friends are in clear danger, the signs may be less obvious, especially to them. In the event that they were inches from the ledge of a tall building, there would be no questions. In that scenario, there’s no grey area. Clearly, the ledge is unsafe.
However, this may be less cut and dry, especially when the relationships are fairly new, with an absence of more tangible serious concerns. If we mainly rely on “gut” reactions, feelings, and red flags, our assertions are less concrete, even if incredibly valid.
While we may be able to pinpoint solid indicators of potential trouble, our friends may refuse to acknowledge our thoughts or question our assessments. If they stumble upon similar gut reactions themselves, they may question their own assessments too. The tendency is to move forward, giving others the benefit of the doubt. Individuals with psychopathic features bank on this occurring.
Unless seriously scorched by individuals with psychopathic personality traits prior, many don’t necessarily understand that this is real. Therefore, when we discuss the red flags or warning signs their “great guys/gals” display, they may not like it. They may do the same things we once did and minimize the problems, make excuses for them, and take things at face value, freely giving trust, rather than insisting it be earned.
Our heads tend to spin as we watch. “Don’t they see,” we ask? We recognize what is happening. Sometimes, they do not. Sometimes, we watch as they fail to make the important connections.
Why does this happen? Most people want to feel special. Anyone who has encountered or become entangled with individuals with psychopathic traits knows that initially they do just that. So, listening to friends may not top any priority lists, when they are hearing and getting what they want from their new prospects.
This may be especially frustrating when we witness those around us who seem to make repeated dangerous or unhealthy choices.
Either way, deciding whether or not to speak up may not be an easy choice to make. However, I feel I must share and help those I care about when I see things going wrong. For me, my decision to warn friends is one that I have become comfortable with. Thankfully, it does not happen too frequently. At the same time, I also understand that every person is different and so are the circumstances.
Where do we draw the line?
Who don’t we tell? Is sharing information of this nature always appropriate? This is another personal decision. However, I tend to feel that we should limit these discussions to our friends or others with whom we are very close.
There are certain scenarios in which no amount of “evidence” will change the minds of others. Some situations have the potential to become quite volatile. Sharing our thoughts and feelings may not only be fruitless, they may also be dangerous. With new resolve to take care of ourselves, we should respect the limitations that are inherently part of certain situations.
This topic is one that I am certain we all share many different views on. Some of us may feel letting others know what may lie ahead is a moral obligation, others may feel that it is crossing the line. I don’t necessarily think there is a right or wrong answer that neatly fits in every situation. Rather, the circumstances may dictate our actions. Either way, it’s something to consider.
Kim == Why would the letter be ammunition?
Sry — Skylar asked this
Skylar — SHe is tired of the drama — and so am I . I just need to find a concrete way to put this to rest.
I just ate a dozen Italian cookies and drank a cup of coffee. I feel a little better.
I also bought a pack of cigarettes – STUPID! We were not terrific smokers, but be both gave up smoking when we learned that IT had cancer…which he did NOT…. so here I am a smoke stack again. DAMN
She is coming home this evening, and I have so much to do to get things ready — and I have to get MYSELF ready.
kathie2
I completely understand your reasoning. It may or may not make his wife make the decision to run, but it’s not bad either imo to expose him. I think a personal meeting as Sky explained is the best option, and to be very honest about why you feel compelled to do this.
Chances are low it will make her decide to leave him, but imo passing such crucial info is the right thing and does free us from the spath’s slime of being a moral accomplice to their duplicity.
Truthspeak, I only can tolerate the slime of my best friend’s partner because I see them only several times a year (though I don’t like it that I can barely get to see her without him being present). I have high respect for you that you can bear it day in and day out living with her.
Sky, it kinda makes me understand those who loved me and had a bad feeling about the spath. It makes me so sad to see her so glowing and happy with the worst choice ever. I really wish her happiness could be based on someone deserving of her. I love and care for her so much that I’d rather suffer mr Gross than have her even more isolated.
Thank you all for listening and understanding and giving me your wisdom and counsel. I know that each of you come from a different place — and are at a different place in recovery from this. I appreciate your thoughts from each place. It is still so fresh for me and there are constant reminders that are excruciating.
I just talked to my daughter who is on her way home. She sounds WONDERFUL and we chatted about this whole mess. She says that she recognized before I did, completely, the patterns in his behavior that revealed him as the piece of poo that he is –ironically because I had pointed out the cycle that he seemed to follow. IN a moment of clarity at one point I said that none of what he did made any sense. Any time she tried to exert her own interests or be independent or seem to move away in her own direction, he manufactured a crisis that compelled him to break off their relationship == then immediately recant — plead for forgiveness, and guilt her into getting back together with him. This last time was the LAST straw for her. She was DONE — and even though he pled with her to get back together — she was tired of the drama and tired of him blaming her for doing things that were completely reasonable. She just wasn;t willing to have blame assigned to her when it was not warranted. GOod for her!! How did I raise such a smart cookie?? And as shocking as the truth was to both of us — she says it didn;t hurt her as much because she was already DONE with him. SHe said that she feels my reaction is a PTSD echo of my ex’s betrayal of both of us — and a reluctance to just give up on somebody I had come to care for. I think she is right.
I invested so much emotional energy in them and in their relationship because I believed he was something he was NOT — and I did not want her to throw away a relationship I thought was worth working on. I should have MINDED MY OWN DAMN BUSINESS. Instead, I allowed myself to be conned — I believed this man when he told me I was like his mom. I believed him when he said he was starting to have faith again when we “prayed him through” his ordeal with (nonexistent) cancer. I believed his when he said he would take care of my daughter forever. I loved him like a son. MY love was real — and it came from a kind heart. He is a TURD and not worthy of my love.
My DD also told me to go ahead and send the letter I have written. Not sure what I will do there – It will be difficult to maneuver a meeting with his wife when I am SURE he will not be around — and I do not want to go alone. I also do not want to talk to her when her kids are around, because I DO NOT want them to be hurt by this anymore than is necessary. I think that maybe I will deliver the letter in person — and then just go. And I will have my best friend go with me — He was with us through this entire ordeal anyway — he was sucked into the lies as well… IT called and texted him constantly, too. We were quite a foursome — my DD, IT ,my friend and I. We did EVERYTHING together, and it WAS like family, SO hard to believe it was all a lie. But it was.
Anyway, I feel very relieved that I have the consent from my DD to send this final letter. And that will be the end of that. His wife, bless her, can do what she wants with the info . and I will pray for her to do what is right for her and her children. That judgment is up to her. Not my business.
I know that I have healing to do. That’s what THIS place is for — and that’s what therapy is for. But all in all, I think we will eventually be OK.
I feel like I have my sanity back.
I escaped from the “herd”.
I was meant to be another psychological/emotional captive like all the rest but I fought back and survived and won.
All the rest are still in that whirlwind and I jumped ship. THEY can have it. They wouldn’t believe me anyways. They say that the amount of abused people who return to their abusers is abnormally high compared to the people who escape. I am finding it very shocking why anyone would choose to be abused the way I was but that is not for me to worry about. MY LIFE is what I need to worry about.
I stood strong and tall, although I was lost in the valleys for a mighty long time! And, I am making it.
I am NEVER going back to that.
Never.
It’s ugliness just like what happened in Colorado today.
There is just no excuse for the lack of human empathy.
“Beings” without empathy are what? Demons?
How terribly awful and all I can bare to listen to about it is a brief news report, online. I just can’t hear anymore. Everytime I hear something like this, it immediately makes me think that I know ‘who’ it is…THAT is how ‘touchy’ the situation was and still is. Just like that: BOOM! The fuse could go off, at any moment…
May all of our prayers and thoughts be with the victims and families of today’s horrible massacre.
May God help us all.
You gotta live strong.
Live large.
Dupey
Kathie,
I said that letter could be ammunition because it is a document and documents can be used as evidence that you slandered him or whatever. I don’t like to give spaths any documents, particularly with my signature on them. You just don’t know what they might come up with.
Furthermore, if he gets a hold of it, he will know EXACTLY the words you used to explain what happened, and he will know EXACTLY how to counter it with his own stories.
A conversation is more private and stays private. He’s less likely to find out. You have to realize too, that women are in the most danger from spaths when they confront them about their lies and threaten to leave. So you are poking the fire by telling her. I still think she deserves to know, but I would hope that she maintains silence.
If you do tell her, you need to explain that he is a psychopath and that she is in danger if she makes him believe she is leaving him. The only way to escape from a psychopath is to run when they don’t expect it. Otherwise, he may try to kill her or the kids.
She needs to prepare slowly and carefully.
Kathie2, you sound strong, resolved, and completely within your wits, my dear. The “feelings” that are associated with the betrayals and the truths are valid, and your daughter IS a smart cookie! TOWANDA for her AND you!
Yes, a long chat over some good, hot coffee and scones will purge a great deal of venom, Kathie2. She “gets it,” and you “get it.” It’s not like you’re trying to convince someone that doesn’t.
Brightest and most sincere blessings
As an Edit: I agree that any printed document can be an extreme liability when spaths are involved. Absolutely.
Skylar, I’m muddling through this current situation because I have no other options. It’s either stay here, or find new homes for my pets and move into a homeless shelter. I do not have tranpsoration, or a steady source of even reasonable income. So….what typically happens in situations like this is the needy party is forced to tolerate the ill treatments of their benefactors or get out. And, the “kind” benefactors are doing me a HUGE favor by charging me far less in rent than would be required at a regular rental property. Another barb in the harpoon! LOL And, this is a constant reminder – the girlfriend ran my colleague’s best friend AND mother out of this dwelling in short order.
This is temporary. I know what I know, and this is coming to an end, soon.
Brightest blessings!
Dupey, I don’t know the details, but I know that it was horrific.
I do not understand things, these days. When I was growing up, I never remember hearing about people going on these violent rampages so frequently. When something DID happen like this, there was shock, horror, and visceral reactions to the heinous nature of the crimes. Today, it’s a response of “Oh, that’s awful.” “Awful?” Really?
We have become such a desensitized society and culture that NOTHING is shocking, anymore. It’s just a shame – it’s awful. But, it isn’t outrageous or violent.
(sigh) My heart goes out to all of the victims and their families – and, society, in general