By | June 22, 2012 75 Comments

We are valuable, and the psychopath can’t take that value

By Joyce Alexander, RNP (retired)

One of my cousins, a lovely lady in her early 80s, who still has every marble she ever had and a heart as big as a wash tub, sent me the following story in an e mail. I had heard the story years ago, but hadn’t read it in a long time, but today when I read it, I thought about how the psychopathic experience makes this a very valuable analogy.

A well-known speaker started off his seminar holding up a $20 bill. In the room of 200, he asked, “Who would like this $20 bill?” Hands started going up. He said, “I am going to give this $20 to one of you but first, let me do this.” He ”¦ proceeded to crumple up the $20 dollar bill. He then asked, “Who still wants it ”¦?” Still the hands were up in the air. “Well,” he replied, “What if I do ”¦ this?” And he dropped it on the ground and started to grind it into the floor with his shoe. He picked it up, now crumpled and dirty. “Now, who still wants it?” Still the hands went into the air.

“My friends, we have all learned a very valuable lesson. No matter what I did to the money, you still wanted it because it did not decrease in value. It was still worth $20. Many times in our lives, we are dropped, crumpled, and ground into the dirt by the decisions we make and the circumstances that come our way. We feel as though we are worthless. But no matter what has happened or what will happen, you will never lose your value.

Dirty or clean, crumpled or finely creased, you are still priceless to those who DO LOVE you. The worth of our lives comes not in what we do or who we know, but by WHO WE ARE. You are Special—Don’t EVER forget it.”

Count your blessings, not your problems.

The experience with a psychopathic abuser or any person who is abusive, manipulative, dishonest, hateful, malicious and lacks compassion, empathy or love crumples us, tears out feelings, and sometimes our very fibers, grinds us down ”¦ and yet, we do not lose our worth any more than the mutilated piece of currency does.

The media we see, read, and hear continually tells us that being young, beautiful, rich, stylishly dressed, cool, hip (or whatever today’s word is!) is what makes us valuable and pounds that message into our heads continually. This media message is however, not true! Let me repeat that, “This media message is not true!”

Our worth comes not from what the media says, not from what our neighbors think, or even from what our family and friends think, our value comes from what we are, who we are and what we think of ourselves.”¨If we examine ourselves and find ourselves less than we wish we were, we can be whatever we want to be in terms of the kind of person we want to be. Now, I’m not going to tell you that if you want to be an NBA star and you’re 50 years old and 5 feet 1 inch tall that you can become an NBA star, but if you are less honest than you want to be, less happy than you want to be, you can change that. You can improve yourself in so many ways to reach whatever emotional goals you set for yourself, but your basic worth can never be lost by what someone else does to you!

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Oh, Joyce……THANK YOU for this wonderful and inspiring article!!!

There must be some kind of “radar” on this site – whenever I “need” some encouragement, it’s there and provided by all of you incredible and inspiring survivors.

Brightest, brightest blessings


Yes, thank you Joyce. I struggle daily with body image issues, so your comments about the media were spot on. It’s exhausting trying to keep up. I’ve had 2 plastic surgeries to date, both immediately followed failed relationships. I know I will never achieve complete self acceptance, but I am closer to being non neurotic about my appearance at this stage of my life.

It doesn’t help that I work largely with 20 somethings in the IT world, and this job was so hard to go into everyday after the P because I was feeling so old and unattractive and dull. Things are better now but I still dread the mirror. I know this is a direct result of my flamboyant N mother who taught me from young age that looks are all that matter, oh, and having a man, that too. Probably why I never married. Trust issues and all, and dealing with the endless stream of men in my mother’s life.

Anyway, thanks for shoring up a bit of confidence today. 😉

Ox Drover


Okay, you get the CYBER SKILLET up to the side of the head BOINK!!!!! That’s for the negative attitude about “I know I will never achieve complete self acceptance”!!! Bad Girl! LOL 🙂 You stop that negative attitude RAT NOW!!!! Don’t make me get the BIG SKILLET out ! !

Honey, there is no one who felt older, fatter, uglier than I did when my husband died and I felt “oh, woe is me! no man will ever love me again booo hoooooo booo hoo” (that’s me having a negative pity party!~) But you know, I have finally come to realize (now that I have kicked the P- BF that my negative attitude allowed to enter my life to the curb and I have found that I am OKAY alone, and that I would rather have no man in my life than a BHAD relationship. I am not only OK with it, I am satisfied with it the way it is. Sure, I’d like to have a relationship0, a good one, but I am no longer NEEDY. I think that being “needy” is what opens us up to the psychopaths and their “love bombing” which if we are needy enough or our self esteem is low enough we fall for very easily. I know I sure did.!

I’ve learned to accept myself AS IS and not to worry about how I look compared to the 20s, 30s, 40s, or 50s I’m just OK with what and who I am….I’m never going to be a runway model, and so what. How you LOOK is not what is important in the real scheme of things, but how you are on the inside.

Love Oxy


Ouch. 🙂

I hear you, feel where you are coming from. I guess I don’t see it as being negative as much as being realistic. It’s so ingrained in me, the insecurities I mean. I don’t need the kind of validation I once did, being valued for substance instead of style is so much more important. I do still step on the scale first thing every morning, doubtful that will change.

Found out my plastic surgeon knows the P, same medical community and all. I am not happy about that bit of information. The P used to tell me all the time that I was too independent, it really irritated him that I would not just roll over. I rolled far enough, however. Far enough to be blind to his manipulations for quite a while.

Being a good mom is really what’s most important to me, and my boy tells me all the time that I’m awesome. Now THAT makes me very happy. I’m awesome even with no make up on and in a ratty old robe. I kind of love that kid. 🙂

Off to get some ice for the boinking.




Now that was just plain mean, hens. I just got the other goose egg down. 🙂


LOL Karma, Nobody on LF has been boinked by the Ox as much as I have was an inside joke .
but she means well and has the best of intentions.


I could tell. Maybe she’ll whip up an omlet for me in that skillet next time. 🙂

Ox Drover

Karma, I only do it to people I care about! I sure hate to see you have as much self loathing as Hens had! I thought I would have to beat his head flat (well it is kind of flat on the top now! ) LOL
Seriously though, stop with the self talk about “I will never….” this or that.

Our “self talk” becomes a SELF FULFILLING prophecy and so we need to talk POSITIVE TO OURSELVES….not negatively!

I know that’s hard sometimes….and you know what. I was a HOT chickie when I was young, but now I look in the mirror and I see MY GRANDMOTHER’S FACE…wrinkles and all…and the damage I did baking myself in the African sun and the Arkansas sun….and I am 65, and I will never be 25 or 35 or 35 or 55….but you know what, the OUTside of me may look 65, but the inside of me still feels “young” and I’m no longer worried about the outside of me so much as I am about what kind of PERSON I am. I’m a lot better, stronger, kinder, more caring and more able to set boundaries now than I ever was in the past.

The people who Liked me or loved me because I was a “hot chick” are not people who are still in my life….the people who love me now, or like me, are people who do not care if I have wrinkles or not…they enjoy my company because I am ME not because I am a “hot chick.”

So work on becoming YOU and the kind of person that people like because you are YOU not because you are a “hot chick.”

Being a good mother, having your son think you are an awesome mom….hey, that is wonderful! What more could you want?

Oh, BTW the only kind of omlet I make now are DUCK EGG OMLETS. YUM!



“The P used to to tell me all the time that I was too independent……”

Totally with you on that comment. Maybe some of your insecurities are stemming from being told that being independent is bad?!!!!
….you should be dependent on him. For approval, for scraps from the table.
Ya know karma, I was so mind farked by my ex I didn’t own my own thoughts
anymore. He could manipulate me so expertly I just relied on him for everything. When I lost weight…..a lot of weight from the stress of living with him…..he said
I looked old and saggy. When I put weight on again…..after I stopped living
with him….I was too fat and he would call me names. You could never win with

After I left him I continued to see him and we “saw” each other for another 2years. Although this period of my life was nearly as f++*d up as the years I
lived with him, I began to establish my independence once more. I had been
living on my own previous to meeting spath boy.

He HATED my new found awakenings. He resented my independence…..and of
course he tried to bully me into going back to him permanently.

The good people here at LF talk about how at the beginning it’s all about that
cruddy relationship that we endured and getting over that but it somehow ends
up being about us. As an independent soul.

Going back to how you see yourself. I say how you see yourself because friends an family won’t see you so negatively. Don’t do what I did. I didn’t appreciate what God gave, looks wise, when I was young. And so I’ve gone through my life thinking it’ll be better when I lose the weight bla bla etc etc ad infinitum. Then I look back on my life and think I really wish I had seen the beauty that I possessed. What a waste. My insecurities didn’t come from being told looks were everything… mum brought us up with humility and modesty…….er a little to much of that and bam … confidence.

So Karma, after all that I am learning that I’m ok. I’m doing alright. I look in the mirror and I think …yep it ain’t what it used to be but ya know it’s pretty darned good! Lol. I’m 50 in the autumn. I’m independent again. I’m learning to value what’s important …..and I’m determined not to let anyone else take that from me ever again. Or give it away so easily….

Brightest blessings to you.

Ps ….get smaller mirrors



Ha! Smaller mirrors are a fab idea. 🙂

Agreed on the independent thing. I put myself through college and have lived on my own since I was a teenager. Would rarely accept help from anyone, wanted to do it all on my own. P got me to drop my guard and helped me so much financially, more than I’ve ever allowed anyone to help me. I had huge amounts of debt due to being laid off several years ago and living off credit cards for a year.

I don’t expend the energy I used to worrying about appearances. Too many other worthwhile things to put my energy into these days. My comment about never reaching complete self acceptance was more geared towards the ‘complete’ part, I think most of us would change one or two little things here or there. I do get irritated that I allowed my upbringing to undermine my confidence to the degree I did, and still do sometimes.

I’m glad you are in a good place now. Being independent is so much better than relying on someone who is dedicated to breaking us down. They are all bullies, aren’t they? Big spath bullies. Thanks for the kind words. 🙂

Ox Drover


quoting you: “they are all bullies”

Yep, that is RIGHT!!!!

I like Stronga’s idea bout “smaller mirrors” LOL Yep, that too.

We hit our peaks about 20-25, and no matter how we eat, work out, etc. we are going to gradually “go down hill” in the “looks” department as we age. What is REALLY IMPORTANT is what we become inside as we get older.

Our body deteriorates as it ages and the natural design of it is that is what happens, but we SHOULD learn wisdom during those years of our lives so that when we do reach “old age” (I”m there!) we have accumulated enough wisdom that our mind and hearts are at peace with who we are….inside and out.

OUr media tells us that as we age we become worthless because youth and beauty is everything.

Funny thing, a while back I saw Ann Margaret on television. You may not remember her but she was a “hottie” back in my days, dated Elvis, etc. She has had so much plastic surgery that the dimple in her chin is what used to be her navel. She still wears her hair like she did when she was 25, etc. (and this woman must be 65-75) the effect was like a Barbie Doll that had gotten too close to the heat. It was bizzare.

There are stars who “age gracefully” and act their age and dress their ages, and those are the ones that I admire, rather than those who try with surgery etc. to appear decades younger than they really are because to them “appearance is everything.”

I hope all this rambling makes sense. Have a good day! God bless.



Wait, you can’t quote me, I was quoting Stronga! Is that some sort of blog plagierism?

I remember Ann Margaret. And what about Priscilla Presley, speaking of Elvis and all. Spooky.

It is good to know not everyone is youth obsessed and there is a place for aging gracefully. The messages given by the media are so damaging, even to young girls who end up with eating disorders in order to look like Kate Moss. I was happy to see the recent campaigns against air brushing in magazines. How did we become so shallow as a society, anyway?

Oh, and duck egg omlets?

still reeling

Karma, I had to do a double take when I read your first two comments…wow. You are not alone. As I’ve stated here before, I have the same issues around body image vs what is really important in life. My whole world has revolved around appearance as far back as I can remember, to my detriment.

I, too, when I worked with path was the soul older person amongst 20 somethings…old enough to be their grandmother! This is why I said on another thread, that I almost *had* to believe path really cared since I was the least likely of all the women there to catch his attention. I thought I was special to him for some reason.

I allowed myself to feel, for the first time, as if someone liked me not just for my looks but for something he saw in me that I didn’t see in myself. This has been the most crushing part of all, knowing I meant nothing to him…it doesn’t matter that he is incapable – it sets me back to square one, has crushed my spirit so badly. In believing in him, I believed in myself. Sometimes that can work….I still can’t wrap my head around the real deal. Working so very hard at it though.

You said ” I know this is a direct result of my flamboyant N mother who taught me from young age that looks are all that matter, oh, and having a man, that too.”
Again, just to let you know, I came from a similar circumstance. We took it to heart, my friend..

You are not alone and I do think there is hope. It takes work and doing all you can to believe in the wonderful person that you are. I can tell that you are terrific, loving and caring. Your son is very lucky..and it’s so healthy that you have him to focus upon. To raise him healthily with appropriate values about life is such a great way of helping yourself break out of those chains of appearance bondage your mom wound around you.

It’s ok to be you. You *will* look in the mirror, you will step on the scale. Everyone does. For people like us, it takes work that centers around liking ourselves as people, and those things we don’t like, we accept fully, then try to change them to help ourselves lead better lives. This is what I’m trying to do…I was making good headway till path blew up my world. Had I liked *myself* enough, it wouldn’t have happened. I saw the red flags.

Love to you….hang in there.

Great article Ox.


Aw, Still, you made me cry. 🙂 Thank you, I’m so glad you understand my plight.

My mother and stepfather used to talk about me in the third person when I was in the room, ‘what are we going to do about her HAIR’, ‘her HAIR, what about her SKIN!’ Going NC with my crazy mother was one of the best moves I ever made.

I’m so sorry your piece of crap spath made you feel so low. It is insidious, the way they break us down. I’m quite sure you are fabulous and I hope you can get that spirit back. It is so hard when you have to go to work and report to a 20 something boss, and deal with the somewhat moronic 20 something teammates. I think thats one of the main reasons I struggle so much, the work situation, I mean.

Really, your comments are like a tonic to me. It is a bondage of sorts, isn’t it? I am proud to say I left the house today without giving much thought to my ridiculous hair (very curly), nor makeup. And, as an added bonus, I was able to make small talk at the post office and grocery store! There is hope. I hope you can be compassionate with yourself, we are always our own worst critcs, aren’t we?

And yes, I do tell my son he is handsome, but more than that I tell him he is so smart, funny and sweet. I have no intention of passing on my mother’s neurosis to the next generation.

Thank you for making me feel so much better.

Ox Drover


Going NC with your mother! Good for you! It is difficult to de-parent yourself…but when you realize that these PEOPLE where never parents to you in the first place.

Talking about you in the third person while you are in the room. That is total devaluation if ever I heard it! Like you are an object!

Reeling, I am glad that you are working on valuing yourself too. It is difficult, but I work on it every day. Today is one of those good days when I feel “chipper” and upbeat! Tomorrow I may look at myself and say “OMG! Where did my youth go?” LOL

But one thing that makes me feel good is I LOOK BETTER THAN ANN MARGARET!!!! LOL ROTFLMAO


Still Reeling,

Also, I meant to mention before getting all gushy that there is a great book called Trapped in the Mirror, Adult Children of Narcissists in Their Struggle for Self, by Elan Golomb that really opened my eyes. It was one of those books that was life changing for me. I’d almost go as far to say it helped more than therapy, although therapy was helpful as well.

Here’s to not being Ann Margaret. 🙂

still reeling

Karma, knowing I can make you feel better is so affirming for me too. I think that’s one of the many charms of this forum. Mutual understanding, compassion and the opportunity to give as well as take. Thank *you*.

I’ve been in the 3rd party situation as well but my dad never played into it and so mom mainly maimed me alone or in front of my friends. Also with hair, skin, posture, fingernails, even the way I carried a bag! Yes, she used to say, “Reeling, there’s an art to carrying a don’t crumple it up into a messy ball.” Also, things like, “You never look finished…there’s always something wrong or missing when you’re dressed.” Sounds very similar to what you went thru.

This lady I revered though. And loved with all my heart. Because there were times we laughed and she sat and listened to all my crap. I was very open with her. The girls in my college dorm would tease me for spending so much time on the phone with her. Until I got into therapy, I considered her my best friend. Always took her hand in shopping malls. I guess for my wiring, I did the only thing I knew how to do….and that as to pretend we were best buds so I didn’t have to face that my mom disapproved of me.

Once in therapy, I went the opposite way. Not NC, but I did set limits with her..she was not allowed to talk about my appearance. That was not the therapist’s first sugg. His first sugg was to take what advice I wanted and let the rest go in one ear and out the other. I was never able to do that.
Anyway, I became very anxious in her presence. I don’t even like to think about it right now. There was no pleasing her.

She’d bitch about my biting my nails, finally I’d grow them out and she’d say they were too long. My hair was too fine (too bad you got your father’s hair), too short, too long. I was too thin, then once when I actually gained a little wgt, she freaked out. After that I spend 12 awful years with an eating disorder….bye bye 20’s…never getting those years back.

OK, well listen, I am going to stop wallowing. Karma, Ill check out Trapped in the Mirror….prob can get it cheap on Amazon. If not, the library! Thank you and I appreciate your thougtful and kind comments so much.

Listen, it’s really freeing to go out of the house w/out makeup and hair fixed…I’ve always done it on the weekends and I’m so glad of that. My mom used to chastise me for it.

So happy you are bringing up your son in a healthy way. I tried with my daughter as well…we did hit some rough spots and I wasn’t always the best me I could be….(toxic shame, here we go). I think she turned out pretty well…almost 23 yrs old.

You are a great person and a thoughtful and kind one too. Thank you for your support.

Ox, agree with everything you said. LOL on Ann Margaret. I do love her tho. I recall being so impressed when she did the movie Tommy with no makeup….loved her for that.

Love you guys. And again, thanks so much and hugs.

still reeling

Karma I ordered Trapped in the Mirror for $1 + 4.00 shipping *and* this one too…it looks good as well:

Will I Ever Be Good Enough?: Healing the Daughters of Narcissistic Mothers by Karyl McBride

Take care and thx again!


Still Reeling,

How awful, I mean to love your mom and have her undercut you like that. It was different for me, I didn’t feel much for my mom other than contempt after I reached my teenage years. It’s why I moved out as soon as I could. I still tried to have a relationship for a while, inviting her to dinner (which she declined because she had to feed the dogs), asking her to go shopping (she tried to steal from the store), etc. She was very troubled.

I caught her cutting out paper letters and glueing them to paper in the form of a note once. While wearing rubber gloves. She was livid because her 30 something boyfriend dumped her for a younger woman. Mom was in her early 60’s. She was sending a letter to the police advising them that her ex boyfriend’s new chick was a drug dealer. I said something like, oh mom what are you DOING!! ‘She doesn’t deserve her kids’ was her answer. Huh?

I could go on about how she treated me after I had my son, when he was hospitalized as a baby for RSV and I asked her to please bring me some clean clothes because I refused to leave him, and she refused saying it was just too far to drive (we live in the same city), can’t I just get someone else to do it? No point rehashing all that, I know you get the picture. My father ended up remarrying someone just like my mom, so now I have a crazy stepmother, too. Can’t go NC with her though, it would kill my dad.

I’ve noticed Will I Ever Be Good Enough while researching spaths. Seems all my attention recently has been focused on trying to understand how I ended up with such an abusive man and how I can heal from his damage. I practically have a library now of books on trauma bonds, spotting spaths, overcoming spaths, codependency, you name it. More than I ever wanted to know, thank you very much. I’m going to add Will I Ever Be Good Enough to the library. 🙂

I’m glad you wallowed with me. 🙂 Feel free to do so anytime! We can get better. Do you see your daughter often?

I’m off to cover my roots. Hope I don’t get a bonk on the head. 🙂


Oh and Oxy, when you said my parents treated me like an object, you were spot on. Interestingly enough, the P said to me on numerous occasions, with NO prompting from me, “I’m NOT objectifying you!” Another tell. He knew exactly what he was doing.

His sexual dysfunction was so disgusting, its one of the things that I struggle with the most, the things he wanted from me and felt entitled to. He was violent with me twice, could almost be called sexual assault, only I managed to get away. So very disturbing, it has really shaken me.

Ox Drover

Dear Karma,

Of course I wouldn’t boink you for covering your roots! LOL

I’m so glad that you both are able to give each other some comfort and understanding. That IS what LoveFraud is about.

Ns and Ps and other toxic forms whether they are parents or lovers, take away our souls, but we do not have to let it be permanent. Just like the 20 dollar bill, no matter how crumpled we are, we are STILL VALUABLE! (((hugs))))

still reeling

Karma, I am speechless at your mother’s behavior. A very sick woman it sounds like. WOW. SO MAL NARC!!! OMG!!! It was very difficult for me to read that, very difficult indeed. Thankfully you realize, as you said just how troubled she is/was. Talk about being made to feel worthless and non-existent even. Maybe on the bright side, it was easier to disconnect from her because there were not chinks in her narc armor.

I recall when I was in the throes of an eating disorder, prob around 27 yrs old. I lived in a high rise apt and was getting my mail from the large bank of mailboxes in the lobby when a guy approached. He was new to the bldg and began to talk to me immediately about being a recovering heroin addict. It was a chilling story that also displayed his tremendous inner strength and enormous motivation to stay clean. Meetings several x per day, meditation, groups of all sorts, etc. He said that telling his story to anyone that would listen was very therapeutic. I shared that I also had an addiction to overeating and starvation to keep from gaining wgt. His response was that he was surely glad to have been addicted to heroin rather than food as one has to eat every day but they don’t have to shoot up. Quite true.

In a sense, this story reminds me of you and I and our rships with our moms. The kind of things your mom did to you basically beg for NC. She was consistently not available, no guilt, no shame, no conscience. My mom, on the other hand, engaged quite a bit, even tho so very critical and so obviously more respectful and enamored of my older brother. We did have good times together when I could distract her from wanting to rip into relatives, friends, put everyone down, etc. There was laughter and she was giving and loved her grandkids. Catch 22, she being largely responsible for my toxic shame but also giving just enough for me to feel I had to stay engaged.
So much cog diss.

They did hone us into the perfect little targets for the paths in our lives. Another Catch 22, this inability to get to them and make them understand and pay for the way they hurt and abused us. Bastards. Sorry.

I’m sure you’ve read the Glass Castle by Jeannette Walls. It may be a very tough read for you, it was for me. But I’m glad I read it – auto-biographical by the author about her life as a child in a horror story of a family. I think you’ll relate to her mom’s behaviors. I did in some ways, but I liked the book because of the strength and character of this young girl and the woman she became, risiing from the ashes of hell basically. It’s a horror story tho. Have a feeling you’ve read it.

I had a really funny and kind of uplifting experience last night – it was prob very unhealthy for a variety of reasons and I’ve already made sure I didn’t fully enjoy it because of that. But since I’ve shared so much misery and pain here, esp of late, I figured I’d post it. Went to Wolf Trap (Vienna, Va) which for those who aren’t familiar with this area is a gorgeous concert venue. I go every summer just because I love it there….generally they don’t get the kind of entertainment I like but I find something. I have started going alone when my hub or friends don’t want to or can’t. It’s fine..I don’t mind at all. I like to get there early, get a glass of overpriced wine and people watch. Last night Rain was there (Beatles cover band – they’re pretty good).

I has been really hot here but yesterday and last night simply gorgeous out. I was walking around trying to find a place to sit on the grass and drink the wine (can’t take it to the seats). I saw this guy kind of walking behind me and sure enough, he plopped down right next to me. For a few min, I thought, “Nah, come on, he looks 25 yrs old at the most…you’re letting the upswing of insecurity get the better of you”. Literally I could almost be the grandma of a 25 yr old!

But he did start talking to me and finally asked if I wanted to share his blanket. HAHAHA. I was flattered but later figured out that he prob chose me because I was alone. Not many people go there alone. He was a really nice guy, a personal trainer and boy, he looked it. He wanted me to FB friend him..LOL…right!!!!!!!!!!!!

But even tho I have already ruined the experience in my mind, didn’t really feel comfortable with someone so young (was getting jealous of all the pretty young things walking by…so pathetic!!), and of course after path, I couldn’t believe a word he said, it still gave me a lift. *AND* it took my mind off path. Hey, it made me see that even tho I *am* married and am not getting involved with some young guy or anyone else unless my hub and I split, I *most certainly **CAN** be attracted to other men besides path. In fact, it was so refreshing to listen to this guy speak about his job, his family, etc., and later when I checked it out on FB (I had to look!!) he was telling the truth at least his story stuck to what I saw on FB. I didn’t friend him. He’s 29 yrs old for starters and so many pretty girls on his site…and he’s a kid from my perspective…very cute guy.

Anyway, we talked thru intermission, I did not share his blanket and I got out of there when it got dark and went to my seat…did not want to share a romantic interlude with him, which is what happens on the grass when it gets dark and they start singing the more intimate songs….no thanks.

Have a good day all!!!!!

Karma, you rock, hang in there.

still reeling

Oh btw, I must do my roots too!!!! Hate doing it tho. Envy you being done…I always end up with the dye all over my head – not good with hair or staying on the roots. Plus they discontinued my wonderful hair dye so I pay an arm and leg on Amazon. Yes, I have that damned “fine” hair my mom so angsted over, bless her heart so I like a gentle hair dye.

Ya know, I have rambled so much, I have to say one more thing. For as long as I can remember, one of my obsessions which involves my hair is that if I accidentally pull one out, I have a sh*t fit. It ruins my day and makes me feel it is noticeable and with such fine hair, I can’t afford it. Can you imagine with all the problems I have and the world has, that this bothers me???? There were times when I happened when path was in my life and I was sure that would end his interest in me.
Can you see how strongly my mom got to me??? Hell I believed everything she said and not only internalized it but made it a part of my belief system, then burned it into my very core. Wow.

Hey, if nothing else you all can feel glad you aren’t me.


I’m reading this latest discussion and it causes me to nod in understanding. That core of shame is SO damaging, on every level. From my physical appearance to my financial security, and everything in between – the shame-core had such a driving impact on every decision.

My mother often told me that my hair was my “crowning glory.” I used to have luscious long hair, and it began to go thin as I approached menopause. Then, a series of emotional traumas caused my physiology to deal with the stress by relieving me of MORE hair. Now, since I’ve been on chemo, my scalp is glaringly visible. Needless to say, I’ve cut my hair quite short, and to HELL with crowning glories or any other outward beauty!

I am what I am. I’m not going to succumb to the current trend of pretending that aging can be stopped through invasive cosmetic surgery, implants, injections, liposuction, dermabraisions, and the lot – what a HELL of a market “youth” is!

As for my noticable wrinkles? I earned every stinking ONE of them, and they’re my badges of healing. I couldn’t care less if I’m not “attractive” to men, since I have no interest or intention of ever engaging in a romantic entanglement, for the rest of my life.

What I am eager to “fix” is my soul. My essence. The part of me that has the power to heal itself and create beauty in the world through words, artwork, and true unconditional love.

Today….even if it’s ONLY today….I’m chalking up the “WIN” and all spath carnage can go straight to the bowels of hell. I don’t know how I’ll feel, tomorrow, but I’m “good,” today. And, I’ll take that over a plate of ribeyes, any day! 😀


Good morning Still,

Thank you for sharing so much with me. I do not consider it rambling at all. It helps me so much.

I know telling my story has been therapeutic. I was not sure it would be, thats why I just read the blog for a couple of months before I could post. It’s been good to talk about the P and about my mother.

I googled her name recently to see if there was an obituary notice since I have no idea whether she’s still alive. I don’t deal with anyone on that side of the family. I have a half sister as well, but she and my mother are both liars and cheats and I want nothing to do with either of them. My mom and sister used to go on cruises together and my mom would lie and say she went alone, but when I went to her house, she’d have pics all over of the two of them on the cruise.

I’m sorry you had to deal with the eating disorder. I did a lot of reading about anorexia and bulimia because I worked with someone who was bulimic and I knew she was killing herself. She’s a size zero to this day. Initially I wanted to help her, but she was so entrenched, I had to distance myself. Good for you for having the internal fortitude and strength to overcome it.

You are brave to go out on your own! I can’t really do that yet. I can run errands during the day, but I cannot put myself into social situations. I start having mild panic attacks if there are too many people around me. I’ve always been shy though, this experience has just set me back a bit. I love going out with my son because he still likes to hold my hand and act playful with me and it sort of helps me integrate back into being with people. Funny thing is my son has Aspergers, he’s supposed to be the socially anxious one. He’s overcome an awful lot.

You were approached by someone last night, and you sound ok this morning. I applaud the fact that it did not completely freak you out. It would have freaked me out.

I have not read Glass Castle. I have a very hard time reading about any sort of child abuse, of any sort. Go to great lengths to avoid it if possible. I’ve been able to read non fiction, self help books about it only because there is little emotion in the text.

I read Donna’s book last night, the Red Flags one. Have you read it yet? I had to set it down a few times because it is extremely intense. I had resisted reading it because I thought reading the blog so much would help enough, but the book is so much deeper. Highly recommend it, but it is triggering.

Yes I understand how deeply your mom got to you. I feel the same and I work on purging her influence as much as possible. For many years I could not use hair spray or drink coffee because those smells reminded me of her. I’ve gotten past that now, though.

We had a huge fight once and I flipping lost it. I screamed at her and told her I hoped she burned in hell for being the awful parent she was. I left home for a few days, but had to come back because I was underage. My mom said to me ‘I forgive you for those things you said about me, I know you didn’t mean them.’ BITCH. Never ever allowed me one moment of validation.

Thank you for being so open with me. It is increadibly healing. I thought all of MY rambling would have run you off. 🙂 And believe me, I understand the hair obsession. My mom used to humiliate me repeatedly with my hair. I have fine hair, but A LOT of it, and its curly. She used to either cut it very short or put it into many little pony tails and laugh at how stupid I looked. Until I got old enough, that is, then I was able to keep her away. I used to have dreams about her killing me, and in my dreams she was always bald. We have the same hair.

Hope you enjoy the rest of your weekend! I was going to get my brakes done today, but I can’t bringmyself to sit in the waiting room for the length of time it could take. Too much of a chance I’d have to talk to someone or just be around people for an extended period of time with no way to leave. Sorry if I’m a downer today, I think Donna’s book really got to me, but it was so helpful as well.

I’m so glad I met you! 🙂



You are so strong and I am so jealous. Are you cancer free now?


Karma, my dear……I’m not strong, whatsoever. I’m just a fighter, that’s all. I have many, many moments of utter despair, but I’m not going to allow myself to have one, today. I’m just not.

The chemo is standard treatment for my immune disorder. And, the thing about this drug is that I actually FEEL the toxicity when I take it. I hate it, and the most ludicrous aspect of the divorce action is that the exspath is suggesting that I’m not suffering from any immune disorder and willingly taking a toxic chemical for……pity and personal gain? REALLY!? So, I went to my doctor and said, “Hey, Doc….it looks like I’m going to be going through a really nasty divorce. Listen….could you write down in my medical record that I have an immune disorder and prescribe some kind of poison so I can look like a pitiful victim?” Doc says, “Oh, sure. I do that, every day. In fact, I’ll just make a little note on the prescription to substitute sugar pills for the chemical, and here’s the list of side effects that you can practice!’ ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!! Oh, holy shitballs……..

Nearly everyone that I know is facing some sort of immune issue, especially women. Makes me wonder just how much abuse is still being perpetrated in spite of all of the “education and information” out there.

still reeling

Karma, such an interesting post and so much in it, “sister.” I totally relate. You are not alone. Also a partner in panic attacks, hi anx, etc. I really want to comment on your post and will later. Have to go to my nephew’s bday party. I do *have* to say that I have been feeling that I being “involved” with people is too much trouble. I am sick to death of worrying what they think.
I have changed so much since corporate american blew me off and path. Maybe a bit of a different perspective, but I do understand where you’re coming from. More later. Please never think you are rambling when it comes to me! I feel like I’ve written 3 sentences, and when I see how much I’ve typed, I can’t believe how obnoxious I am.

Truth, you are ill? Geez, I am so sorry. This is one hell of a way to make peace with hair loss. I was sick last summer and I also felt that my emotional state was responsible in part for bringing it on.

You know I’m sending powerful positive and empowering vibes to you. And thinking of you with love. You are strong, have an intensely powerful self-concept, courageous to the hilt.
Couldn’t agree more about what is valuable in life…you are living proof of what all of us need to concentrate on and believe in. And it isn’t how much hair or wrinkling we have.
Huge blessings and enormous healthy vibes to you, Truth.

Hugs and love to you both.

still reeling

Glad you don’t have cancer, Truth.



Holy shitballs is right. Your spath is so evil. And I disagree, you are strong. I’m so sorry you have to endure that chemical toxicity.

My immune issues are pretty mild, chronic allergy problems that lead to chronic sinus infections that lead to chronic fatigue. Pretty mild in the grand scheme of things. The P used to happily write me an Rx for some meds, I think he really enjoyed watching the fact that nothing helped.

Still – take your time, enjoy the party. I usually need time to digest it all anyway! Also, I MUST clean the house before my son’s dad brings him home!


Hi everyone…
When my grandma was sick, I handled myself VERY poorly. I was sad. My ex had never seen this side of me as I typically handled myself well and any issues that. Erred dealing with we’re HIS… His stress at work, his insecurities, his jealousy, his hurt feelings. Etc. this time it was about ME! I needed a rock, a hug, to be told it would be ok… I was vulnerable.
During this time he was moving in w me and repeatedly told me ‘I don’t think you know how vulnerable I an right now.’. HUH? We dated for 5 years… Vulnerable??? What about ME, ME, ME!!! I couldn’t , literally, worry about him as I was barely keeping MY head above water. This is where the problem came in. You see, HE couldn’t take care of himself emotionally let alone me during MY time of need! I was called ‘selfish’ and ‘self absorbed’ and ‘only looking out for me.’.
I second guessed myself! I had never been called selfish by ANYONE and now my significant other thought I was selfish? I thought maybe I AM and tried desperately to be different. I was told I wasn’t attractive…although I know now my ‘unatteactiveness’ wasn’t the outside yet he didnt specify WHAT was unatteactive although he DID tell me I was too skinny, too muscely and not shapely anymore. Hmmmmm…
I was allowed to believe I WAS, in fact, an UGLY person…again, I’d NEVER been to that by anyone!!! He was my significant other, though, so it MUST be true!
I know MY ‘issues’ ( as he’s tried telling me I have many of) really weren’t mine then. I was VERY upset about my grandma and could have handled myself better had I been able to. I’m human. He couldn’t accept that side of me because if I was human, that meant I’d have needs and HE wouldn’t be always thought about first.


He texted me about a month ago asking for a ‘video’ we made years ago. I said ABSOLUTELY NOT will he get it! Again I was told I was selfish and only concerned about myself. He said he needed to know what he wanted was impt and that I’d ‘do right’ by him. He needed to know that what he wanted and needed hed get and for ONCE he wanted what he wanted when he wanted it. But I ‘couldn’t put mt first as always’. 4 days later he went trail riding with his ‘friend’…a month later they went to Florida. Bet she doesn’t know what he’s doin. I hate him



I like your name, you are lucky to be away from him. They are all selfish brats with no capacity to love or support. How dare you need comfort when your grandmother was sick! Don’t you know he needs ALL of your attention? Don’t chastise yourself for not being superwoman when you had a sick family member.

It sounds like you grasp that he’s the one projecting his issues on to you. Try not to forget that. It took me a long time to understand how easily spaths can manipulate.

I’m glad you are writing about it, it does a world of good.


I have a difficult time really ‘getting’ the issues he has that he projects. I’m no idiot by ANY means, however when it’s you in the situation clarity is sometimes tough. Any ideas?


Onelukygurl, it might help you to familiarize yourself with the following terms and you can “google” search each of them:
* crazymaking
* gaslighting
* cognitive dissonance

The exspath that was in your life systematically broke down your self-esteem and self-confidence – EVERYTHING that was “self” oriented. Of course, you’re no idiot! And, that’s one of the things that he coveted and despised about you – your self-assurance and smarts. What they will never have, they intend to destroy.

Perhaps, it would be helpful to you if you reconsidered your assessment of how you were feeling when your grandmother was ill. You DIDN’T handle yourself “poorly.” You were behaving as any “normal” human being would! When we are dealing with dire illness/injury, we MUST be self-absorbed or we’ll simply be of no use, at all. We are focusing on ourselves so that we can get THROUGH the drama of whatever is happening.

You are not repsonsible for having been vulnerable. You’re simply not. You’re a human being with human reactions. HE is responsible for taking advantage of those vulnerabilities! He is the one at fault – not you. He deliberately, maliciously, and methodically worked you over to reduce you to emotional rubble. And, that’s it. That’s all.

The clarity is this: you were victimized by a predator. You are not responsible for him BEING a predator or for his taking advantage of your vulnerabilities when you had been led to believe that you could trust him to care about you and care FOR you.

I wanted to beat myself up for having trusted a very, very patient predator. There MUST have been some signs that the exspath was a predator! How could I have missed them? It doesn’t matter what I missed or how I could have missed it. What DOES matter is that the exspath took advantage of another human being who was emotionally fragile and vulnerable. The exspath is a Bad Person. Therefore, he is not allowed to exist in my Universe – figuratively speaking, of course.

With regard to “the issues he has that he projects,” those issues aren’t yours and there are far better uses for your precious energies than trying to sort this fiend out. Understanding “what” he is or “why” he is will not change that leopard’s spots. He is a bad person, and that’s all that matters.

We don’t see the spath’s deliberate dismantling of our personna because they perpetrate their crazymaking and gaslighting over a period of time. If the exspath were to have done everything that he managed to accomplish in the space of a first, second, or third date, I would have run in the other direction as if he were carrying Ebola Virus. But, they DON’T work their spath tricks all at once. They take it one step at a time – see what they can get away with and push the edge of that emotional envelope further, the next time. Opportunities arise for them to implant bullshirt into our heads, and they take full advantage of those opportunities in a manner that I find to be almost morbidly fascinating.

As an aside, I say that it’s morbidly fascinating because it is just that. How they “know” what to do and say is phenomenal. Do they LEARN how to do this? Is there a TEXTBOOK that they go by? Do they hear little evil voices in their empty heads telling them to POUNCE on this golden opportunity to tear their victims down?

So, Onelukygurl…….cut yourself some serious slack. Sheesh, I know people who have degrees in psychology that have been damaged by spaths! And, THEY had the information beforehand! Anyone can be victimized, Onelukygurl, given the perfect set of opportunities. Slack…..cut yourself some slack and BURN THAT VIDEO!!!! Burn it. End it. Have a funeral for it. Just get rid of it and don’t even entertain a response to his outrageous “request.” What a jagoff!

Brightest blessings and hugs



Truthspeak is a genius, I always listen to her. 🙂

If you read this blog, you will soon begin to see the patterns. They are all very much alike. Spaths are creatures of habit, emphasis on creatures.

You might also want to look into the 5 stages of grieving, because you are grieving the loss of a relationship, and you will be angry. And that is ok.

You are NOT an idiot. You are lost, like we all were after realizing what we were dealing with.

Stick around and read our blogs, feel free to write when you feel up to it. We all get you.


Oh, and stay No Contact. It’s the only way to de-slime yourself from his toxicity. No texting, no emailing, no phone calls, no anything. ANY response, even if you are telling him what a piece of crap he is, will be taken as ‘supply’, attention is what he craves, good or bad.


Hello oneluckygirl,

Just wanted to applaud the posts above. Excellent advice. Don’t you give into him, girl. He is a bully. It’s all about power and you have it now. He can’t stand that. Oh it is such sweet revenge when you realise this beautiful thing, simple in it’s manifestation ….that is no contact. Hits em right between the eyes….so to speak.

Nope you are not guna lay down and let him have his own way. No more. I love karmas idea….have a bonfire. Yiha!!!!

Stay strong 1LG, ….it’s your best course of defence. No contact, nada, nothing.

Well done 🙂


Um sorry it was Truthy who sed burn the video.

Truth you are on fire tonight lol. I love your posts. So inspiring.

Thank you



One more thing. My ex called me selfish too. Well he would of course….I wasn’t feeding him, giving him everything he wanted then I was selfish.

When they’re not getting what they want your a selfish biatch.

Tra la la I don’t care. Tum ti tum up your bum. Spath boy !!!


The one he’s seeing now is the one he met last year after leaving me only to contact me n TELL ME he’s seeing her but really loves me. She had no idea…he’s back onto her again and is in FL with her… Again and she had NO IDEA he’s contacted me a month ago for the video saying he wanted to try to work things out with me except I’ve shown him who I am and he wants a partner whose honna give him what he wants and needs… AKA unsuspecting high school teacher girl who ‘would bend over backward for me, move me in, has a big house and money’. She has no idea the ant of chaos she’s in store for … Oh and that he got expelled from high school their having sex with his classroom assistant…did I mention I was in education for 10 years? Coincidence? He LITERALLY wants to be taken care of…


I pray though that he DOES view me as having all the power and control. Ha!!! He’s a bulky and has tried intimidating me time and time again but to no avail. I’ve told him IM NOT THE ONE FOR YOU TO F%># WITH!
I want so badly to tell this person about him, to save her the tome although I know I’ll look nuts. She’s the shield he NEEDS- the one who makes him look normal… As I did. His bio family, who I introduced him to, has NO idea either. They LOVE this girl…because he’s suckered her into believing he cares and has given me a bad name. I’ll wait… Ill sit back and I PRAY TO GOD he gets what he’s dished out 10x worse. I WAS that girl he’s fooling now… I feel so bad for her



Try to put the focus back on you, on your own healing. We will never understand why they do what they do, and you can drive yourself crazy thinking about THEM.

He is not worth your energy. I know it takes time to shift your attention from thinking about the relationship to thinking about yourself, taking care of YOU, but it really is essential. Your mental and physical well being is at stake here. Whoever he is with now will learn the hard way, just like you did.

Ox Drover

Oneluky girl, yes, put the focus on yourself and maintain NO CONTACT…DO NOT RESPOND TO HIM, DO NOT KEEP UP WITH HIM OR WHAT HE IS DOING by watching his FB page, or listening to what others tell you about what he is doing.

You can’t save that woman from him, only she can save herself when she realizes (like you have done) that he is a user, an abuser, and projects on to anyone else what he is doing himself.

Spend your energies and your time focusing on learning about psychopaths and I do recommend that you buy and read Donna’s book RED FLAGS OF LOVE FRAUD and do the work book exercises….it will help you heal and help you recognize the next psychopath that comes to your door.

Hang in there, the healing will progress with no contact! God bless (((hugs)))


One – sorry if that last post seemed short, I had dinner in the oven.

What I mean is how are you eating? Are you sleeping? Are you able to get through a day of work ok? I know at the beginning I was constantly thinking the the ex P, wondering where he was, what he was doing, who he was with, if she was getting the same treatment I did, etc. It was exhausting. I lost 15 lbs in a month and missed a lot of work.

I hope you are doing ok.


It’s funny. All I find myself wondering is if he will somehow treat her or anyone else better. Almost like there was something actually wrong with me that encouraged the poor treatment. I know that sounds strange although it’s true. Is it possible he would treat someone better and he REALLY just was ‘fed’ up? I don’t think so…


I know, I had the same thoughts. Still do sometimes. It’s normal.

No, I truly believe spaths never change. There may be a different type of honeymoon phase, but when that is over, he’ll go back to being the same person who hurt you.

There was nothing wrong with you. There is something very wrong with these disordered individuals. It takes time for that to sink in. Read, read and read. The more you research this, the more it will help you see that they are all alike. Some are craftier or more violent or more deviant, but they are all disordered and have NO REMORSE for taking everything and giving nothing. It’s the nature of the beast.


That last post may have sounded a little ‘victim like’ and I HATE that I sometimes think that way. I feel like I need some validation though and that seems to be the area I struggle with.

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