By Ox Drover
What’s the most important thing the sociopath took from you? Money? Love? Your home? Your self-esteem? Sex? Or, is it something else, which in my opinion may be even more important than just about anything?
The most important thing I think I lost from every sociopath I ever dealt with was my own confidence in myself to make assessments about people and then, reasonable choices about those people, based on those accurate assessments.
Many former victims have said that they just have trouble “trusting others” again after being totally hoodwinked and ripped off for so many important things in their lives by the sociopath. Is it others that they don’t trust, though, or are they unable to trust themselves to make accurate assessments of others they may meet in the future? I think it isn’t so much others we don’t trust, as it is ourselves we don’t trust to make good judgments of the intentions and sincerity of others.
Dr. Abraham Maslow’s “hierarchy of needs” says that the first thing we are concerned with in our lives is out biological needs for oxygen, water, food and relatively constant body temperature. These are the strongest needs we have, about in that order, because if we don’t have these things not much else matters.
The next need we have, according to Maslow, when the physiological needs are satisfied and are no longer controlling out thoughts and behaviors, is the need for safety and security. We (adults) don’t usually think about “safety” until we feel threatened. Of course after we have been injured by a sociopath, we really don’t feel safe at all. Our world of safety is upside down.
The next highest need of mankind, according to Maslow, is the need for love, affection and belongingness. We seek to overcome feelings of alienation and loneliness by both giving and receiving affection.
If our need for “safety” is not satisfied, it is very difficult for us to seek affection, because we feel threatened.
However, because we had difficulty “seeing” from the looks or behaviors of past encounters with sociopaths that these people were “dangerous” to us, we become “paranoid” of others, especially new others. We want the affection of others, but because we have failed in the past to correctly assess the dangerousness of previous people we felt affection for, we are afraid to get too close to others. It is not so much the others that we don’t trust, as we don’t trust ourselves to make good choices.
Not feeling safe makes it very difficult for us to advance on to the “higher needs” such as affection and connectedness with others when we fear that we may make another poor assessment of another’s sincerity and motives with will lead to more pain and injury.
Rather than working on trying to trust others, I suggest we should work on learning to trust ourselves and our ability to make valid and correct assessments of others. This may seem that it is the same thing, but I actually don’t think it is at all.
How do we learn to trust ourselves again? How do we put our past mistakes in assessment of others we have sought to have mutual affection with behind us?
I think we do it slowly by forming new friendships, first of all, rather than looking for a lifetime mate. We meet new people in our environment, or go out and seek to interact with new people. We keep our distance at first from these new people, and we look at them, watching their behavior, and watching for the red flags of deception in their words and actions.
We educate ourselves on what we believe makes a good friend, and we accept nothing less in those that we allow to become closer friends.
We look at people who are already in our “circle” and assess them by what we know about their past and current behavior. Does this person now, or have they in the past, shown less than stellar respect for us? What are the benefits versus the liabilities of having this person in our lives? Maybe we decide that this person doesn’t fit well within our circle of people we think we can trust and we distance ourselves from them.
Just as a child slowly learns whom they can trust by observation, or just as an animal learns that certain people are liable to hurt them, or that certain people will reward them for approaching, we need to reeducate ourselves slowly and carefully, and learn to trust ourselves. If we trust ourselves, it will be much easier to trust ourselves to keep us safe when we venture into “unknown” territory, because we will know that we will keep ourselves safe by our valid and good observations.
We will also know that caution with others is a good thing to have. We will validate that we respect ourselves and love ourselves enough to keep ourselves safe without depriving ourselves of the opportunity to have the love, affection and connectedness that we, as humans, need and want.
Please God, DO NOT let ErinBrock’s Hot Man kiss like a crocodile.
If this man is in the Tom Selleck arena, then I would go BOUNCY HAIR on this one.
OR, maybe you should go out with him once, and make sure he’s WORTHY of the BOUNCY HAIR.
I don’t know. It’s a tough one, Erin. You make the call.
thanks guys for all the input and honest y and i know he’s a trainwreck and do i sypathize , how could i not but you are all right, im out of my league as he’s prob more damaged than i and as i’ve been told in AA for years two sicks don’t make for a healthy relationship it’s just that i see so much of myself in him. I f we were both in a better place he would be a very good guy to have but unfortunately timing is all wrong for both of us. He is definatley telling me the truth about proff. he is to get his 25 year watch and ring or something coming up at awards ceremoney and he mentioned that his wife is not indicating she is going and i m thinking why the hell would you want her to go, so already im becoming possessive . No sense bullcrapping you guys, im setting myself up to being hurt , just by another person other than the s and i’ve had my share of disappointments . Im not sure how to handle detaching from this but i know he would be better to seek professional help as im not a therapist just another victim. When i look at him and myself , i wonder why with all we have going for us would be settle for such crap, and i come up with rejection ,but the reality is it doesn’t matter, it’s in the no contact and im in a better position than he. It is staggering to think how much control we gave these people letting them gauge our selfworth. This guy has been even more lovestarved than i , mine couldn’t perform but i did get some cuddling and kissing, but at what price. I’ve had diff people say just go ahead and sleep with this guy but don’t get attached and see it for what it is, wish i could but i do know myself well enough now to not head in that direction. love kindheart, thanks guys ps. i have a wierd question for you guys, concerning the kissing with the s, mine couldn’t perform so kissing was important, but different times he would suck my tongue(sorry hope im not making anyone nauseous here) and it would actually hurt, was that maybe a masochistic thing with him?
Jello shots and donuts & dating? Intersting combo….
Is there a woman alive who hasn’t watched the movie Pretty Woman and been “drawn in” to the romance? When Richard Gere is climbing the fire escape and declaring his love to Julia Roberts? The key components to this story are millionaire and hooker. In REAL life this doesn’t happen.
Pretty woman is the adult version of Cinderella, that we all watched as little girls. It’s a fairy tale.
Another good one that comes to mind is Renee Z. line……”You had me at hello”
Haven’t we all been had at “hello”? This is a fairy tale to….When a guy has us at hello (or whatever) it is usually an indication that we should turn around and head for the hills. (as FAST as we can)
Yeah we are all adults here and we know that movies aren’t real. Thats not “real” life….But do we….Really? Doesn’t some of what we see in these portrayals of love on the big screen kind of “define” what we think love is?
No ONE really taught us what love and marriage was all about.
And most of us were not lucky enough to have great role models growing up within our parents marriages to see first hand what it is “suppose” to be like.
This is something we had to learn on our own. Many of us that have ended up here at LF, have learned the hard way that we aren’t very good at this relationship thing.
Many of us (myself included) are not ready to go out there again. But for those of us that are…What do you look for?
This is somewhat of a perplexing question….Because we CAN’T know what to look for if we haven’t experienced it. If we have never been in a good healthy relationship, we don’t know what that feels like. We don’t even know what the EARLY “indicators” are, of a healthy man. Do we?
We know what we know. We know what we have learned in both our past mistakes and what we have learned thus far in our healing journey.
Hopefully we know this:
We know “fairy tales” are not real. If he/she looks to good to be true……Then thats EXACTLY what it is. To good to be true.
If things are happening to “fast”. The declaration of “I love you”, or sex, or early commitments to each other, or moving into each others living quarters, or borrowing money, neediness….NOT good signs.
Evasive. Not Good
Always proclaiming to be the victim in their past relationships. No accountability for their own mistakes. Not good.
Seeing early signs of past problems that don’t make sense. Doesn’t have good relationships with ANYONE in their past. Parents, siblings, their own children. Yes some of the people in their past might have been toxic (just like in our own) BUT EVERYONE? That would be an indication that “they” might be the one with the problem. Not good.
So that is what we don’t want to see…..
What do we want to look for?
And how do we take the “blinders” off? How do we really see without either being cynical or to the other extreame?
rosa, i think this guy is on the up and up as far as his profession and i’ve not heard a bad thing about him , i do sense he is a bit of a martyr though, can’t say no, does alot of things for others and is realizing it. As for the charges for the samples , i think it was the security gurad but who knows. One thing i am suspicious of though and maybe it’s nothing, his wife looks similar to i. I mean we aren’t twins by any means just she’s tiny , blonde, etc. similar build. I have wondered other than her looks what he saw in her in the beginning, asking myself is it all about looks with him as he’s very handsome and i know that he knows it even though he is damaged by his wife , obv letting her spit on him. Im watching diligently but by all accounts its very familiar to my marriage in that he tried very hard to make her happy just like my exhusband did , she thinking it was his responsiblity to please her etc. just as in my marriage. There are differences in that i would never have cheated on my exhusband nor degraded him to the level she did . I was unhappy in myself , drinking heavily and take most the responsibility for my husband leaving. His exact words when he announced he was leaving were”i’m tired of trying” and i knew exactly what he meant. I was insatiable just like this woman so in essence i’ve been on both sides of the fence, perpetrator and victim and i’ve talked to the detective about all of this. kh
KindHeart:
“his wife looks similar to I.”
Kindheart, I would run like the wind, if I were you.
Please be VERY careful. I cannot stress that enough.
Dear Kind heart,
What part of “even if he IS on the up and up he is BAD for you” do you NOT get? Hun, getting involved with a married man, even if his wife is SATANA herself, you are setting youirself up for another FALL. I don’t need a “crystal ball” to “see the future” on this one——RUN!!!! Only YOU can make a good decision, but if you persist in having ANYTHING to do with this guy—this old crone sees nothing but pain and a “rinse and repeat” of troublbe, trouble in your life. THINK ABOUT IT WITH YOUR HEAD, not your “emotional need” to FIX someone or to have a “man in your life.” WORK ON YOU!!!!
Kindheart, you saw his mask slip once. He is mirroring you. He is acting like he is hurt because he knows you are. It’s scaring me and I’m not even there. You need to leave town or go gray rock. You are under his spell.
please skylar can you explain what Grayrock entails, in not sure what you mean other than to me nonemotional not something that is easy for me to do. I remember once my sponsor telling me that i had to act or learn to act unemotionally . Sometimes i wish i could be like the s just for say a day to see what it is really like to be completely unemotional. That is probably why they outlive decent kind people, i’ve often thought that with the s. He has never eaten a fruit or veggie, since i’ve known him for over 7 years, smokes like a chimney and is still kicking , outliving one ex wife and two women after, one has ms and the other said she credits him with Irritable bowel syndrome. I know im setting myself up to be hurt again and i know i should distance and im not sure how to go about it. I am going to breach it with him if he show s up again and that part does get me. He shows up whenever to talk and it’s not fair to me. kh thanks for all the input guys kh
II don’t know where else to post this, so here it goes”.
An URGENT need for immediate information.
I posted a couple days ago about hyper focused effort to expose my ex with details.
Yesterday, our oldest daughter asked me if I wanted to listen to something she recorded on her cell phone.
To my HUGE surprise, she had video recorded a confrontation with her father on their visit, over two weeks ago. I knew things went badly, but it is my policy not to pry for information. I leave myself open if she wants to talk, but I don’t ask.
She had 64 short recordings. She is so hurt by the lies he tells about them. She is devastated that her grandparents have “rejected” them because of the things negative things he’s said, and the way he frames the kids – provoking them to become angry, then records, or returns calls when grandparents are present to hear his children melting down and setting limits with him, while he wears the ever calm, hurt, victim mask.
Anyway”. She is BRILLIANT and is far more grounded then I’ve ever been in my life. Her concrete reasoning blows me away. She drilled him about issues pertaining their relationship and in his effort to project, blame, avoid, and confuse her — he EXPOSED himself!!!!! Whewwwwwwweeeee!!!! Sorry, getting a little excited here.
All the factual details that I’ve been painstakingly gathering, he basically confirmed the facts that my facts point to. He admitted to defrauding me. He admitted to his father purposefully conspiring with him, to defraud me. Add this recording with the evidence I have it shows, without a doubt, efforts made to cause me to trust the father (He repeatedly told me and the kids, “Don’t you worry about anything, you leave the worrying to me.”) while they (my ex and his father) were scheming to defraud me of community business assets.
He also EXPOSED his true interest (or lack of interest) in the kids. He’s been accusing me of PAS” hehehee..so when our daughter drills him about why he just forgot about them, and never bothered to be a part of their lives, and didn’t show up to events they invited him too” he responded, angrily..”I WAS BUSY, WORKING, OK!.” Oh, wait”wait”wait” it gets better. He was busy working, when on his declaration he claims he’s unemployed. Heheheee.
Furthermore, and this is heartbreaking for my daughter. He tells her in a very glib way, he would rather her NOT come on these visits because she gives him grief. Hit pits the two younger siblings against her. He mocks her pain by saying he has fun with them, but wishes she wouldn’t come, “”and, besides,” he tells her, “the court said you don’t have to go with us anymore. So, I prefer that you don’t.”
She is 15 going on 40 in her maturity, and in most of the conversation, he sounded like a little boy saying, “Nanner, Nanner, Nanner.” He even said, repeatedly to her condescendingly, “In your little world”.” to which she countered, “Dad, I don’t live in my OWN little world. I live in the real world with everybody else.” To this he responded, “Well in MY little world”.” OMG” I’m laughing. He basically exposes that he doesn’t live in the real world. :::Giggling:::: Yeah, we already knew that. It’s nice that he admitted it.
His expectations are for the kids to feel sorry for him. YES! He EXPOSED this, too.
He even EXPOSED by telling our 15 year old daughter that he doesn’t care where they live, as she was pleading with him about not forcing us out of the only home they’ve ever known. He said to her, “What difference does it make. If I let you stay in the house, you aren’t going to LOVE ME any better. So why should I care what happens to you?”
Another wammy was” And, this is weird on many levels.
In his effort to blame me for the kid’s lives turning upside down, he demanded, “Do you want to know the truth about what happened? “ (A little history first: I changed the locks on the house when he was threatening to kill me.) “He told her, “When two people love each other”when they are truly in love with each other, they will work through anything. I’ll give you an example: I know a couple where the father rapped their little girl. He basically had sex with his daughter. When he got caught, he was arrested, and went to jail. Even though there was a restraining order, his wife still loved him, and they figured out a way to still be together, in spite of the restraining order.” Our daughter’s response was, “OMG, DAD! That’s sick. GROSS.” He continued, “Everybody is judging me, and that’s not right. You have to hate the sin, but love the sinner unconditionally. He was trying to convince her that it was my fault our marriage broke up, because I didn’t love him enough to stay exposed to his abuse. A perfect example of the way they think in HIS little world.
The funny thing is, he went off track to confuse our daughter, and, in so doing EXPOSED himself. Our daughter had no clue the value of the information she had in her possession for the past two weeks. She kept asking me, as I responded to each self condemning comment he made with gasps, “What? Why is that important? She had no clue that what he said to distract would have any significance to what I’ve been working on. Her cell phone has become the most valuable piece of property we own (wrapped in the paper trail of evidence I have gathered), sealed with the bow of erroneous claims in his declarations where he lies to the court under oath.
So what was it I needed?
Oh, yeah”. I saw a post on here a while back, but can’t remember where or when, about how to transfer video/audio files from a cell phone to a computer. Does anyone recall this, or have information as to how to do it? I have an AT&T LG SHINE. ANY suggestions would be helpful, as I need to get this copied, secured, and to my attorney and the kids attorney, and the court appointed reunification therapist.. ASAP!!!!!