Geraldo Rivera provided his analysis of the ”¦ Natalee Holloway disappearance case. Prime suspect Joran Van Der Sloot has given a series of interviews proclaiming his total innocence. “The lie that he has fastened on,” Rivera pronounced, “is that he took her on the beach but didn’t have sex because he didn’t have a condom, then left her on the there. It’s at odds with the story he told earlier, but as he tells this story he becomes more confident and more glib. I believe there is a pathological aspect to this man.” The Factor concurred that Van Der Sloot seems psychologically unbalanced. “I can’t figure out why he wants do these interviews because he comes off as a sociopath. If he makes one slip-up he’s done. It looks to me like he’s a danger junkie – he likes this cat-and-mouse game, it’s exciting to him” (source)
Does it matter whether or not Joran van der Sloot is a sociopath/psychopath? Why not just be satisfied that he is a “criminal” and an evil person?
Yes, it does matter, because when dealing with a sociopath the usual rules of human interaction do not apply. Anyone who treats a sociopath as they would a non-disordered person is likely to get burned and to be implicated in the evil that sociopath does. Joran van der Sloot’s story illustrates this principle.
Joran’s father, Paulus, was an attorney many believed knew the truth about what happened to Natalie Halloway, the first young woman Joran was accused of murdering. Paulus strongly supported his son after the murder accusations first arose, and was even charged himself as an accessory after the fact, though the charges were dropped.
Paulus van der Sloot died of a sudden cardiac death last February and so did not live to see the result of his enabling of his son. Joran’s mother, Anita, is now alone to deal with the repercussions of the family’s enabling.
The lesson to be learned is that if you have a family member who has been charged with a serious crime, and that family member has psychopathic personality traits, or is diagnosed with antisocial personality disorder, DO NOT HELP THAT PERSON IN ANY WAY.
Over and over again, we have said on this website that sociopaths are able to do evil in a large part because they are enabled by family members and various governmental agencies- including the judicial system and law enforcement. Well, law enforcement does it again.
It turns out that the FBI wired Joran $25,000 as part of a “sting” operation, as they were trying to arrest him for shaking down Natalie Halloway’s parents. According to former agent Paul Lindsay, “the FBI formula for extortion stings is, “set ’em up, pay ’em off, get ’em to talk, never let them leave the room without handcuffs on.” Because the FBI did not understand the psychology of their suspect, they let him leave the room and were out smarted by a sociopath.
The lesson to be learned here is that next time the FBI wants to sting a sociopath they should contact Lovefraud so that Donna and I can tell them not to give a sociopath any money”¦ that is unless they want the sociopath to use the money to kill someone.
One more lesson to be learned from the van der Sloot case is that media psychiatrists should stop confusing people with their false categorical statements. I came across this analysis of van der Sloot by psychiatrist Keith Ablow (who I have criticized before):
“Serial killers whether organized or disorganized are always made, never born. Having interviewed dozens of killers myself, I can tell you that it turns out that evil never appears ”˜out of the womb’.”
Well, I knew Rodney Alcala, and I can tell you that he was born with a disposition to become a serial killer that was present in his early childhood. Serial killers are both born and made. Evil is in the genes of some people but like many other traits it needs the right soil to take root and blossom.
Liane, an EXCELLENT article, especially defining the serial killer.
It’s almost a relief to see that someone has used “sociopath” with regard to Van der Skunk.
OxD, the wanton enabling and seemingly WILLFUL dysfuction in many spath-related families is beyond my capacity to comprehend. When someone does something (anything) that is harmful to others, illegal, and/or amoral, they should be held accountable and NOT coddled, excused, or enabled. Some of the things that I’ve known about even with regard to the spath son is just outrageous.
Now, to clarify the unwilling participation, the ex spath would “require” my participation, and I believe that the importance of my participation was quite simple. If I were directly involved in what the ex spath wanted done, I was an accessory and, therefore, he figured that I would never talk about our activities. Once the shame and abuse became clearly defined, my participation ended and I got the heck out.
OxD, you’re so right that Van der Snot’s mother is definitely going to have to do some very hard, long, intense work to get through this – even to address it. I’ve always been fearful of the knock at the door or the phone call to inform me that the spath son has been involved in some crime. Because I chose to call a spade a spade and go NC, I’m prepared for the worst. Hopefully, I’ll never hear that knock or get that phone call.
This is what Joran Van Der Sloot does when he is unhappy with the way the interview is going….
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyZEM7ECohs&NR=1
It shows poor impulse control, and speaks volumes about the core of his personality.
Keith Ablow sounds like one of those people who’s in denial about the influence of genetics on human personality.
I doubt the FBI has much to learn about psychopaths. They’ve got whole departments that specialize in that kind of thing, in profiling serial killers for instance. Even the ordinary agent is going to be well aware that criminal suspects tell lies and can be altogether slippery, whether they’re psychopathic or not.
Paul Lindsay said “the FBI formula for extortion stings is “set ’em up, pay ’em off, get ’em to talk, never let them leave the room without handcuffs on.” But it’s not clear to me that the FBI ever GOT van der Sloot in a “room” to begin with! My impression is that this “sting” was conducted entirely at long distance, and their immediate intention was to entrap the guy for extortion and get him extradited to the U.S. Then they’d proceed from there. It’s not that the operation “failed” so much as the difficulties of getting Aruban authorities to cooperate slowed it down enough to make a fatal difference.
Any operation of that kind is a gamble. If the “sting” succeeded, then the FBI would get to STOP van der Sloot, probably for as long as several years on the extortion charge. Nobody had been able to do that much before. That might provide the time and opportunity to get a case together or force a confession for Natalee Holloway’s murder as well. Those gains were well worth playing for.
If it failed, what did they stand to lose? At most, $25,000 of somebody else’s money that they’d been voluntarily offered. Based on van der Sloot’s past behavior, they had no reason to suppose he was likely to fly off and kill someone else right away. Van der Sloot has traveled to many places in the five years since Natalee Holloway’s murder, and there’s no evidence that he’s been responsible for any other murder since then. It’s possible that he was, and managed to remain unsuspected just as Oxy said, but there’s no actual evidence of that.
Far more important is that he’s been to all these places all over the world WITHOUT needing any financial subsidies from the FBI! So I don’t think this $25,000 made a scrap of difference one way or the other. If van der Sloot was going to kill again, he was going to do it anyway, sooner or later, with or without that $25,000. He obviously has other sources of money, and seems to have some dirty ways of getting it besides. There are allegations that he’s been involved in sex trafficking in Thailand, for instance.
When we talk about “enabling” anyone in a case like this, it really boils down to what Ayn Rand said in some context or other: “The question isn’t who is going to LET me; it’s who is going to STOP me.” That’s true of any human. We’re all perfectly free to do whatever we CAN. And if we can’t find the resources to do it in one place, more often than not we can find them in another place. This is just as true for psychopaths as it is for anyone else. No matter how evil the things they do, the question is still not “who is going to LET them,” but “who is going to STOP them.”
That’s why I wouldn’t blame the FBI for this. At least they were trying to STOP this guy. Nobody else currently was.
Dear Redwald,
You are right, and Ayn Rand is also right, they will manage to get someone to help them or manage somehow to get the resources they need or want to do their evil. Unfortunately, I also know how easy it is to get sucked into the evil vortex of the psychopathic adult child because we keep on with the malignant Hope that either we are wrong about them or that they will reform.
I see so many family members in so many situations with adult kids, and the family enabling them, bailing them out over and over, and I’m not sure if the family members are not BOTH victims and ENABLERS/CO-conspiritors in the evil accomplished by the ones they enable.
It is sort of like keeping a dog that you know is viscious and each time it bites someone you still refuse to do anything about the dog because you “love it” —and eventually when it kills someone— WHO is to blame? You or the dog?
Well, I KNOW what to do with a dog that bites, and I would have NO problem doing it even with a dog that I dearly loved, but unfortunately, the law NOW frowns on us doing that to a human, though the Law of Moses did prescribe just such a thing for a child or adult child that was UNCONTROLABLE. They were to be brought before the elders by their parents and essentially tried and if found uncontrolable, to be put to death.
The Bible is full of sons of great men who should have been put to death under such a law, including King David’s son, Absalom, who David enabled and failed to control. The stories in the Bible about psychopaths, narcissists and enablling unruly children, consorting with “bad people” and on and on, never cease to amaze me. Even if a person doesn’t believe the Bible is any kind of “holy” book, it is still a wonderful text book of Psych 101! Giving us some great examples of what to do and not to do with evil people!!!!!
OxDrover,
I just want to compliment your responses… they are honest, brave, responsible and caring, etc!
And, I think you’re on the mark, 99.9999%!
(you’ve got yerself a cheerleader, even if you don’t want/need one —->me) Hahaha.
Also, p.s. I’m going to use your term:
arsehold delux, 24 karat gold plated – hilarious!
Oxy, yes the facts about Life and the Hereafter (the Bible).
Interesting what these scriptures say taken directly from the Bible:
The sinner is as bad as what is said in scriptures.
Scripture says,
“they are filled with all unrighteousness” (Romans 1:29).
“The hearts of the sons of men are full of evil” (Ecclesiastes 9:3), and they have an evil spirit working in them (Ephesians 2:2). AGAIN, THEY DO NOT BELIEVE IN GOD.
False assurance is certainly given, when a void that doesn’t exist is supposedly filled.
God says,
“The wicked in his proud countenance does not seek God; God is in none of his thoughts.” (Psalm 10:4).
“And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, . . .” (Romans 1:28)
And, “There is none who seeks after God.” (Romans 3:11)
And, “An evil man seeks only rebellion.” (Proverbs 17:11; see also Romans 1:18-32; 3:10-18; Proverbs 14:2).
Psalm 10:3 says the wicked “renounce the Lord.”
John 3:20 says they hate the light (1 John 1:5).
Romans 1:30 describes them as “haters of God.”
They are not lonely for Him. They do not thirst for God. They would not rather try to build their own ladder to God. They hate Him.
He who walks in his uprightness fears the Lord, but he who is perverse in his ways despises Him. (Proverbs 14:2; see also Romans 1:18-32; John 3:19-20)
So I swore in My wrath, they shall not enter My rest. (Psalm 95:11; see also Hebrews 3:11-19 and Numbers 1:45-46; 14:28-35; 26:2, 51, 63-65).
Those who blasphemed the Holy Spirit lay beyond the forgiveness of God (Matthew 12:22-32).
Today, anyone who sins willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth lies beyond the forgiveness of God (Hebrews 10:26-31).
Moreover, in the future, the antichrist, the son of perdition (2 Thessalonians 2:3-4) and his false prophet (Revelation 13:11-17), and all who worship the beast, will lie beyond the forgiveness of God as they walk upon the earth (Revelation 13:8; 14:9-11; 19:20).
And I say to you, My friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do. But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear Him who, after He has killed, has power to cast into hell; yes, I say to you, fear Him! (Luke 12:4-5).
Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire. (Revelation 20:11-12, 15).
“. . . when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. These shall be punished with everlasting destruction . . .” (2 Thessalonians 1:7-9; see also Matthew 8:12; 10:28; 13:41-42, 49-50; 18:8-9; 22:13; 25:30, 41; Mark 9:45, 47; Revelation 19:20).
It’s been how many years that NON-believers had God removed from our school systems, public buildings, division of church and state? How many short years and chaos continues to flourish. When you take God out, what is put in it’s place? Satan’s lies is what replaces God’s truth.
Our way of life was founded on God, read any form of our money in this country and it says “In God we Trust” … and people wonder why chaos has been running rampant in our streets? It is due to taking God out of our way of life, not preaching/teaching His truth, but man’s truth (Satan again)!
Dear PUREWATER 2,800,890,304 (LOL–ROTFLMAO)
Thank you sweetie! I’m just past the point I think of taking myself too seriously any more! This has been a good week for me, getting that letter from the Senator to the Parole board head for my P-son’s PERMANENT FILE—doesn’t assure he will get a 5 yr set off at his next heariing, but I THINK IT WILL HELP.
Also been doing a little ON LINE searching and just found out that the parents of his victim filed a WRONGFUL DEATH SUIT against him and the company he worked for (they both worked there) sooooooo, it may be that with a little more digging I can find where they got a judgment against himm and/or the company AND it is possible that if he gets any MONEY THEY CAN SEIZE IT. The article gave the name of their attorney so I need to contact him tomorrow and see what I can find out. I don’t’ care if my egg donor gives her entire estate to him, if SOMEONE ELSE CAN SEIZE IT! AS LONG AS HE DOESN’T GET IT!!! TOWANDA!!!!!!
PureWaters, maybe you should
just change your handle to
H2o !!!!!!!!!!
Haha. You know what? If purewaters3 gets deleted – you’ve got it, my next name will be H20…. haha..
Did you ever contact DONNA? I had a heck of a time, it wouldn’t take my password, and then she would send me a new one and it wouldn’t take that. Then it would finally take it, then not again, and back and forth and over and over and then some how it just “fixed itself” I think. Anyway, I’m still here so see if Donna can fix you. I just hate it when people change their names cause I can’t REMEMBER who is who! LOL