LoveFraud reader buzzibee raises some important issues in a recent comment.
How does a tested and proven psychopath usually respond to being told “You have a mental disorder. You are characteristically a psychopath”?
Are [they] so arrogant to dispute a medical diagnosis that they have a mental disorder? Do they display any desire to learn more about the disorder and at any point admit to it?
In order to be diagnosed as a psychopath, a person needs a score of 30 out of a possible 40 on the Psychotherapy Checklist-Revised test (PCL-R). This is a very time-consuming test which only trained personnel can administer, so by and large only prisoners and research subjects are likely to have it.
Psychopaths don’t see themselves as having a problem and so wouldn’t present themselves for testing anyway. Unless they thought they might benefit from the diagnosis in some way. So that’s point number one: psychopaths are unlikely to receive the diagnosis unless they are incarcerated, and probably not even then.
Point number two is that those who do get the diagnosis respond like psychopaths; in other words they use it as yet another tool to manipulate others. Here’s a quote from a December, 13 ‘Nature’ article on research scanning the brains of psychopaths in order to better understand empathy:
All the subjects seem to find the experiment to be nonsense. “It was stupid, boring,” says inmate Willem Boerema (not his real name), who claims to have taken part only because he likes Meffert [the young female researcher]. Then, contradicting himself, he adds that “if they say the study can help people then it’s good”.
Boerema, smart, articulate and multilingual, has a PCL-R rating of 35 and a big problem with the term ‘psychopath’. He views it as a fashionable label abused by the judicial system to keep people like himself from being released. “The courts look at your PCL-R rating and add two years to your sentence, then another two years, and then another.”
When he entered the prison five years ago, Boerema says, ‘borderline personality’ was the fashionable term, and his designated pigeon-hole. “The psychopathy label is more damaging though it prompts everyone to see you as a potential serial killer, which I could never be.” (Note, in reporting this article it was agreed that inmates’ crimes would be neither asked about nor reported on.) But Boerema also wears the score as a badge of honour: “I think my high psychopath score is a talent, not a sickness I can make good strong decisions, and it’s good to have some distance with people.”
I’m reminded of Freud’s comments on the following “piece of sophistry”:
A. borrowed a copper kettle from B. and after he had returned it was sued by B. because the kettle now had a big hole in it which made it unusable. His defence was: “First, I never borrowed a kettle from B. at all; secondly, the kettle had a hole in it already when I got it from him; and thirdly, I gave him back the kettle undamaged”….We might…say: “A. has put an ‘and’ where only “either-or” is possible.”
‘Boerema’s litany is classic. It’s ‘nonsense’, ‘stupid’, ‘boring’. I’m going along because I like the doctor, I want to help people. It’s ‘fashionable’, ‘damaging’, labeling, used as an excuse to keep him in prison. It’s a badge of honour, a talent. It’s not a sickness… In short, there is no such thing as psychopathy, but to the extent that it’s true, it’s a good thing.
Just two other uses to which the diagnosis might be put are: as a threat, and to elicit pity.
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There’s never anything wrong with the psychopath. This is perhaps the main reason why therapy doesn’t work with them – they have no motivation to change. But that’s a topic for another day!
Oh my, this behavior is quite familiar!
During a custody dispute (years ago) we were court ordered to have psychological tests. My ex’s came out poorly – he protested it was wrong and demanded another from a different Dr. We did another one, and he refused to pay because he “knew” in advance it was wrong. Somehow he managed to manipulate the situation so attention was off him. He then found 3 more psychologists and a social worker for more testing to “prove” he wasn’t psychotic, then never went back or paid any of the bills.
When I received a call from the last one telling me he was there and this was an “emergency” and I needed to drop everything and show up immediately, I gave him the names of all the previous MDs, and told him no, this game is over.
Nothing was ever wrong with the guy, but he did cost our family a lot of aggravation and upset with invented problems.
Wow! This shows how a chain of -yet again- orchestrated events would suck the victim back in to the pity play, where the paramoralisms run rampant but more importantly, it demonstrates to each of us why the No Contact policy is so critical.
As much as we WANT to help them and as much as THINK (hope) we can … we just cannot. The famous Serenity Prayer applies beautifully to us all –
“God grant us the serenity to accept the things we cannot change,
courage to change the things we can, and wisdom to know the difference.”
I think I speak for all the good folk here when I say that so much thanks has to go to Donna Anderson, Dr Liane Leedom, ML Gallagher and of course to Dr Steve and this site for your tireless efforts and the care and professional advice you have given to us all. I doubt any of us, wherever we may live in the world would have found such awesome “treatment” in any place, other than on the Lovefraud site.
THANK YOU !!
I’ve never been administered the PCL-R so I’m no diagnosed psychopath. I was, however, diagnosed at an early age as having APD. I received intensive “therapy” for many years following the diagnosis.
As I got older and the therapy progressed, I did a lot of my own research to find out just what a sociopath really was. I read classic cases of the sociopath turned serial killer, the petty criminals, the con-men. I read what was the only solution for such a character – institutional incarceration.
This wasn’t my idea of where I wanted to end up, piss poor end for someone who’s supposedly self serving!
The result is probably the best case scenario for rehabilitating a sociopath. I’ve developed strong impulse control and have seamlessly integrated, as a productive member, into society.
This is not to say I’m not still extremely manipulative. I still partake in behavior that is not seen as “productive” or “good” to any social groups. It simply means I’m much better at getting away with it as my urges are satisfied over long term well thought out plans and not quick useless lying based upon impulse.
I would never say a label as a sociopath would be a badge of honor as it ostracizes one from the social groups which we NEED. Unless, of course, the social group in which one is involved with after incarceration is adequate. I’ve spent time in a box, I have no intention of ever doing so again.
So perhaps the best one can hope for with a sociopath is to be able to remove the sociopath/psychopath label and just be comfortable in calling them a self centered manipulative jerk.
And to the point of this comment – I used my diagnosis (and while not a psychopathic one, it’s close based upon the criteria used back when I was diagnosed) to find out what the end result of such a diagnosis usually meant, and did everything I could to avoid it.
I’m cured!
SecretMonster
I think SecretMonster has something there. It appears to me that the intelligence we’ve found in these guys indicates most of them get better at what they do over time. I know that the man I was involved with has gotten steadily craftier and better at what he does. He learns from the mistakes that get him busted and he figures out how to use those experiences to his advantage. He tells a better tale each time and picks up a woman who makes a little more money or is slightly prettier, thinner, or brighter than us, but she is also more needy and less likely to call bullsh*t when she finds it.
Society commonly thinks of sociopaths as serial killers, but I suspect the ones who are truly good at what they do never make the mistake of killing someone and causing an enormous manhunt. They move through life gaining more skill at manipulation. Some even become downright useful to society and can completely ape the actions of a normal person, feigning empathy they will never feel.
I still think that the man I was involved with believed all the lovely things he said to women. He desperately wanted to have the feelings of compassion and caring and love that normal people do, and he knew he was broken. He longed for the love he could never feel. He thought that if he told a girl she was the love of his life enough times, they would both come to believe it eventually. She always fell hard, and he grew steadily more angry with her for not eliciting the feelings in him that he wanted. Truly, I think he wanted someone who could manipulate his feelings in much the way he convinced others to adore him. The catch here is that he is completely incapable of experiencing those warm and caring feelings, and it makes him angry when someone else can’t make him feel what comes naturally to the rest of us.
Strangely, that knowledge has helped me reach a certain level of forgiveness I thought I’d never find with him. He is smart, and he is certainly responsible for his actions, but he will never know what it’s like to hold someone in his arms and have his heart fill with the sort of tenderness and adoration we’re all entitled to. He is well and truly broken, and he is also irrepairable. It would be terrible to know, deep within yourself that you are incapable of the loving feelings that make us basic, decent human beings. To some degree, it isn’t his fault that his wiring is broken. Isn’t that where they get us all? We’re empathetic and feel sorry for this poor, dear man who is so obviously broken that he doesn’t even realize the scope of how messed up he is. Talk about a Catch 22! We just need to remember that he is untreatable and not allow ourselves to get taken in again.
In the comments to a previous post, someone mentioned that we’re all afraid the next one will actually be the one who could do what we couldn’t: handle it all and keep him happy. I know that’s bothered me a great deal, too. Ultimately, though, what the next victim will get is a false relationship with a man who is merely improving his manipulation skills and getting better at evil manipulation for his own selfish gains because he is not even remotely capable of love.
My ex-husband was diagnosed as a sociopath in prison, unknown to me at the time I married him (of course). You are right, he knows it, but now he’s better at it. When he was in prison it was for armed robbery, 11 years in a row, when he got out he just figured that if he told women he loved them, he didn’t have to commit armed robberies anymore for his drug habit, so that’s what he does. He uses women and their money to keep his drug habit alive and well, and in the meantime, goes from woman to woman to take care of him, thus he doesn’t have to go back to prison, or commit crimes.
notquitebroken: Extremely well put. I wish I had something quippy to say.
Noquitebroken,
That is the trap… thinking there is something to handle. I think we handled a lot!!! I compare my relationship to being a twig withstanding a hurricane and I didn’t snap. I am surprised I didn’t.
There is no way of pleasing these people and if we did, what would be the reward anyway? That we get to keep a cruel, manipulative, heartless being for our very own? Its kind of like being the other woman that wins and gets the man… a cheating man with a proven track record.
No thanks.
Aloha…… E.R.
“What would be the reward anyway? That we get to keep a cruel, manipulative, heartless being for our very own?”
WELL SAID Aloha!! … that question and answer is exactly what each of us needs to hammer into our own hearts and spirits until we fully understand it … and believe it.
To secret monster
Have you ever experienced affection for another person?
What do they experience in place of affection? Do they get that euphoric feeling over a special day or event? Do they feel any kind of intimacy during sex or is it just a release for them? I’ve pondered the feeling thing for so long. While I forgive those in my life who messed with my emotions, money and such, I don’t excuse them.
Is what they do who they are? I’ve sometimes felt guilty for being so harsh in my assessment since the dust has somewhat settled. I love peace and tranquility, and with these kinds of people it’s anything but. I’m not into the drama, but it’s like I’ve been provoked until I flip. Then when I finally explode, I’m told all he wants is peace. I’ve realized that he must deliberatly provoke me. Do others find this to be so?
I’ve found too they leave a woman very frustrated, either sexually or emotionally. For me everything was a game. I have had a very difficult time determining which part was real. I don’t think anything was. I’ve found, in observing people, they concentrate on the physical aspects of living, i.e., eating, sleeping, pottying, drinking, drugs, etc., but to go deeper, they just don’t know how. I’ve been told that I’m just too deep for the ones in my life. Apparently everyone here is, too.
The sad part is that we all have intelligence, and it just proves how good they are. I keep blaming myself for not seeing it coming. I wasn’t out looking for anything, but it showed how deep my hurt was from my husbands treatment, that I fell for all the lines. I didn’t even label it abuse until I described his behavior to a friend. I just knew I felt horrible at the hands of someone who said they cared. If that was caring, I’d dread being hated by them. I guess I was. Love doesn’t cause that kind of pain and disillusionment.
I wish these people came with instructions. They do now, because I know to keep my heart guarded and to look for the signs. I’ve read where, if you can recall and not hurt, then you are pretty much healed. I think I’m pretty much there. I’ve done some ranting and raving to rid myself of him, but I don’t have instant recall anymore. I don’t dwell on it like I use to. Thinking of him doesn’t bring the thrill. It’s more of a dread. I can’t change the past but I can prevent it from happening again. If it does I have no one to blame but me.