LoveFraud reader buzzibee raises some important issues in a recent comment.
How does a tested and proven psychopath usually respond to being told “You have a mental disorder. You are characteristically a psychopath”?
Are [they] so arrogant to dispute a medical diagnosis that they have a mental disorder? Do they display any desire to learn more about the disorder and at any point admit to it?
In order to be diagnosed as a psychopath, a person needs a score of 30 out of a possible 40 on the Psychotherapy Checklist-Revised test (PCL-R). This is a very time-consuming test which only trained personnel can administer, so by and large only prisoners and research subjects are likely to have it.
Psychopaths don’t see themselves as having a problem and so wouldn’t present themselves for testing anyway. Unless they thought they might benefit from the diagnosis in some way. So that’s point number one: psychopaths are unlikely to receive the diagnosis unless they are incarcerated, and probably not even then.
Point number two is that those who do get the diagnosis respond like psychopaths; in other words they use it as yet another tool to manipulate others. Here’s a quote from a December, 13 ‘Nature’ article on research scanning the brains of psychopaths in order to better understand empathy:
All the subjects seem to find the experiment to be nonsense. “It was stupid, boring,” says inmate Willem Boerema (not his real name), who claims to have taken part only because he likes Meffert [the young female researcher]. Then, contradicting himself, he adds that “if they say the study can help people then it’s good”.
Boerema, smart, articulate and multilingual, has a PCL-R rating of 35 and a big problem with the term ‘psychopath’. He views it as a fashionable label abused by the judicial system to keep people like himself from being released. “The courts look at your PCL-R rating and add two years to your sentence, then another two years, and then another.”
When he entered the prison five years ago, Boerema says, ‘borderline personality’ was the fashionable term, and his designated pigeon-hole. “The psychopathy label is more damaging though it prompts everyone to see you as a potential serial killer, which I could never be.” (Note, in reporting this article it was agreed that inmates’ crimes would be neither asked about nor reported on.) But Boerema also wears the score as a badge of honour: “I think my high psychopath score is a talent, not a sickness I can make good strong decisions, and it’s good to have some distance with people.”
I’m reminded of Freud’s comments on the following “piece of sophistry”:
A. borrowed a copper kettle from B. and after he had returned it was sued by B. because the kettle now had a big hole in it which made it unusable. His defence was: “First, I never borrowed a kettle from B. at all; secondly, the kettle had a hole in it already when I got it from him; and thirdly, I gave him back the kettle undamaged”….We might…say: “A. has put an ‘and’ where only “either-or” is possible.”
‘Boerema’s litany is classic. It’s ‘nonsense’, ‘stupid’, ‘boring’. I’m going along because I like the doctor, I want to help people. It’s ‘fashionable’, ‘damaging’, labeling, used as an excuse to keep him in prison. It’s a badge of honour, a talent. It’s not a sickness… In short, there is no such thing as psychopathy, but to the extent that it’s true, it’s a good thing.
Just two other uses to which the diagnosis might be put are: as a threat, and to elicit pity.
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There’s never anything wrong with the psychopath. This is perhaps the main reason why therapy doesn’t work with them – they have no motivation to change. But that’s a topic for another day!
Shana31….Yeah, I experienced the same response. To crow about how society “needs” spaths was sickening. It would be wonderful if there were such a thing as Utopia, but there isn’t. There have been users since man began to walk upright – even “lower” primates develop spathic tendencies.
I guess it’s just another facet of the Human Condition. We are mortal, we are flawed, and some of us are really, really off the proverbial hook.
Silvermoon, it may be an EXCELLENT strategy to subpoena information with regard to the spath’s record to facilitate an annulment. ANYTHING that can be used to your advantage should be seized with tenacity. Even if an astrological chart were found to be supportive evidence, I’d use that, too!!!!
Brightest blessings.
I think that I need to know about the former spath friend’s criminal record so that I can relate her behviors with what might have been in store had I not slammed the door on that relationship.
For me, information is vital. I’ve discovered that, in my old age, information is the mortar that holds my boundary foundation together. If I know what I was dealing with, I can better protect myself against falling into the same patterns of open trust and avoidance.
“Oh, she’s just like that because she had a terrible childhood,” was one of the things that I used to say to myself, constantly. Well, I’ve come to the conclusion that nearly every human being has experienced some type of dysfunction in their family. That’s not an excuse to dismiss bad choices that harm other human beings. Today, when someone says something like that, I lock the gate and turn out the lights. It’s a ready-made excuse, and I’m not even entertaining the peddler trying to sell it.
buttons –
‘For me, information is vital. I’ve discovered that, in my old age, information is the mortar that holds my boundary foundation together’
it seems to me, that the more BS that floats my way and cognitive impairment (from reaction to chemical exposures) that manifests and unhinges my reality, the more i need information. i find my mind is harder to work with, more unruly, and i have to hold on to bits of info to mitigate the meanderings of my thoughts and emotions. you never know what bits might be the most helpful, so i seek more info than i used to.
this bears out in this situation with the ppath. mind you there are conflicting forces at play….things that make it harder to take in and retain info (like ptsd and cognitive impairment), and the disorienting exp of coming into contact with a disordered person, but these things make it all the more important that i use LOTS of mortar.
I guess at this point that my need to know is or should be satiated by what I can gather on my own by reading and/or participating in these blogs. By engaging my ex or SM or Mr. Green (whether one and the same or maybe 2 S’s that hooked up and said let’s go start some crap over on LF, who knows?) seems to me to be giving them more of what they want and what we say we don’t. We can establish NC with our own rejects, but we look to their brothers for answers? I can handle them lurking in the shadows, but when they start to try to wow us with their insight, it just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Reminds me of Jack and Marla at the support groups and him realizing she is just an imposter, then her outing him as well.
Shana31 – right! I have no interest in ANYthing spaths have to convey. Even if there’s a grain of truth in their musings, it’s specifically generated to elicit a response – to feed the spath monkey. And, sorry peeps! I’m all out of bananas!
My need to know the criminal history is mainly academic, though there would also be some validations there. “Yes, I should have paid attention to my gut instinct because _____.”
For many years, feeling off-balance seemed “normal.” But, the intensity of these past 2 years has been the greatest series of lessons of my entire life. Off-balance is NOT normal and I don’t HAVE to feel off-balance due to the activites of another person. I don’t have control over the weather, earthquakes, asteroids, or other people, but I most definitely have control over my own choices and actions. This includes the choice of allowing another human being to cause me to feel off-center, or not. I prefer feeling centered.
I agree wholeheartedly!
I don’t know that my S was involved in anything illegal, but I feel it in my bones and some things he said helped lead me to that conclusion.
That was one of my biggest issues as well…feeling centered. It is a place I know I can always come back to. Barbara DeAngelis planted that seed. I think the name of the book is Secrets About Life Every Woman Should Know. A quote I wrote down and kept with me when going through a divorce was Find your center and act from there. Kept me from engaging ex-h in things that in the end simply did not matter and kept me from going insane.
And my favorite quote of all—When the student is ready, the teacher arrives.
Shana31, it’s a very good quote, and I think I’ll adopt it, as well. It speaks DIRECTLY to me, on a gut level. I needed those lessons in the past 2 years, though I hated the teacher for them.
Brightest blessings!
good info in the original article – a little blueprint for mapping ppath behavior.
Yes, the Ps show up every now and then here, some self proclaimed and some who either try to hide or really don’t know what they are, but just come here to post because some poor “abuser” DUN’EM WRONG BY ESCAPING and they want to figure out how to get them back (yes, we really had one like that come here and he wanted us to help him write a letter to her so he could CONTROL HER!) LOL
We’ve had others come here posing as poor abused victims and anyone who doesn’t 110% agree with them or their antics is a P! They usually out themselves though, and end up attacking someone or just leaving on their own. Interestingly enough, it seems that on of the “easier” ways to spot them here is that they come here very “needy” from the get go, but even after being here quite some time, they seldom if EVER offer any solice to others, instead they keep sucking up sympathy like a Hoover, but never seem to reach out to others. There are some other ways I sort of keep an eye on, but mostly that aspect of the ones who seem to eventually act like Ps here on this blog is the most uniform indicator.
Mostly, though, I just “post around” them not replying to them at all. It used to be much more tempting to blast them out of the saddle, but If I see someone behaving in a way I think is going to “explode” I will hit the “report abusive comment” link, and Donna promptly takes care of it as needed.
Giving them the “potted plant” treatment is usually the best idea as what they are after is attention any way they can get it. The more the better, so just ignoriing them works. Any “reply” to them usually just provokes them and it isn’t worth the time to type it.
OxD, it is VERY tempting to blow spath trolls out of the water! I started a blog on another site several years ago to address spathy and ncism. The number of posters that were just looking for attention via sympathy was incredible.
Some of the “regulars” would trigger and engage in an online slam of these people – feeding the spath’s cravings with the spath pulling the triggers. My tactic was to ignore it, entirely.
One of these trigger-pullers went to great lengths to generate ONLINE disruption that it became almost comical. I kept typing, “Folks, this is ONLINE life – responding to this is like farting in a windstorm: no results!”