Yesterday was a tough day at Lovefraud.
First thing in the morning, I got a call from a woman I’d spoken to before. She was hysterical.
From what she’d told me previously, it sounded like she was dealing with three sociopaths—her husband, her oldest son, and a guy she had an affair with. Initially, her husband had condoned the affair. Then he left her. Then he returned. Then he smeared her with her family and friends. The oldest son was violent.
“You have to get out,” I advised.
“I don’t have any money,” she whined. “My husband hid the checkbook.”
“Is your name on the account?” I asked.
“Yes.”
“Then go to the bank, withdraw money and leave.”
Then she started telling me that she begged her husband to make her son stop disrespecting her.
“Your husband is not going to do that,” I said. “He’s a sociopath. You have to get out.”
Then she told me that she and her husband had an appointment with her counselor on Sunday.
“What are you doing that for?” I asked. “It’s just another opportunity for him to manipulate you. Don’t do it.”
“I’ll kill myself”
The woman did not heed my advice. She did not leave. She went to the counseling appointment with her husband. My guess is that the counselor has been co-opted by the husband, as often happens when a sociopath calmly expresses concerns about his or her partner’s “problems.”
So the woman did not sleep at all Sunday night. First thing Monday morning, she’s on the phone with me. Hysterical.
“You have to get out,” I repeated.
“Why should I have to leave when he’s the one abusing me?” she asked.
Then she started begging me for help. She wanted her situation investigated. She wanted justice.
I’m not an investigator. I’m not a lawyer. I’m not a therapist. I’m on the other side of the country. All I could offer were suggestions. Which I’d already done.
So then she started talking about killing herself. Or arranging for someone else to kill her. Repeatedly.
Luckily, call waiting clicked—someone else was on the phone for her. After hanging up, I sought advice from some colleagues. They advised me not to take any chances.
So I called the woman’s counselor—she’d given me the phone number—and left a message that she was suicidal. Then I called the authorities.
An hour later the woman called back. She’d heard from her counselor that I said she was suicidal. She’d heard that law enforcement was coming.
“I’m not suicidal,” she screamed at me.
“You told me you were going to kill yourself,” I replied.
“I’m not suicidal,” she repeated. Then she hung up.
A few hours later, after the shock subsided, I vomited.
The problem was, I knew this incident played right into the hands of the husband, who was claiming that the woman was bi-polar.
I could imagine the scene. She’d get carted off to the hospital, screaming in protest, while he calmly explained to the doctors about her “problems.”
The record would show her receiving psychiatric care for her suicidal threats—another step toward her destruction.
Get out now
I don’t know if everything this woman told me was true. I do know that what she told me was possible.
Some sociopaths are so cunning, so manipulative and so vicious, that it’s possible the husband was orchestrating a grand scheme for this woman to take her own life. Dr. Leedom calls it “murder by suicide.”
But you can’t fight a sociopath by allowing yourself to slip into hysteria.
You can’t save yourself by demanding that somebody “do something” about another person’s abuse or injustice.
If you’re in an abusive situation, you must get out as soon as you become cognizant of it. The longer you stay, the weaker you’ll become, until you end up without the internal resources to cope at all.
If you’re reading this blog, and you’re in an abusive relationship, get out. Now.
In the end, you must save yourself. Other people can only offer suggestions.
Murder by suicide….so true. My psycho used to openly wish a few women inhis life dead…
Did you mention to therapist or police about him?
I know you label them and you become the psycho.
To Lovefraud.com readers: Donna is very special, she has given a great deal of herself to help others. The way to show her the respect she deserves is to realize what her mission is. Her mission is psychopathy/sociopathy education and support for victims. If you are suicidal please seek the help of a trained and licensed therapist or call a suicide hotline. No one affiliated with lovefraud.com can or should be asked to deal with that particular issue.
At a certain point, this kind of behavior on the part of victims becomes abusive to Donna. Victims have a choice, and I hope this woman will make better choices next time.
Oh yes, I know the murder by suicide routine. My P was a Muslim and he even used that to try and plant suicidal thoughts in my head. By that time he knew I was beginning to see through him and he’d got the money so I was no longer needed. He never siad anything directly because it would give him away but the remarkI remember most is ” If you drown I’ll drown with you even though it’s against my religeon”.
I feel so sorry for the woman mentioned above. She is clearly so messed up that Donna’s or our comments may have no effect at all. I hate to think what will happen to her whilst her husband sails on smiling having destoyed another human being.
Swallow
Hi Donna,
Would it be helpful to provide some links for help with Domestic Violence? Here’s a National resource for the US that I found. And there is a hotline on there.
http://www.ndvh.org/
I get the impression (and I could be wrong) that most of the Sociopath’s we talk about on LoveFraud are not physically abusive but more the psychological type. I might have that impression because I never was hit or anything.. thankfully. But whether my impression is right or wrong, I bet there will be a lot of people tha find this site that are dealing with Domestic violence.
If I had recieved the call you did, I would have done the same thing. It is very hard to assess a situation over the phone. You did the right thing.
Thanks for all that you do. This site is top notch and has helped so many people. I don’t know where I would be without it.
All the best in 2008!
Aloha, E.R.
the best thing to do is leave. when i did it i felt so free and excited. it was great.
but the challenge is really getting to that point. and it really is unfair in most cases. many woman who do leave just go back to their abusers because there is no assistance for them. it’s really a pathetic situation.
What a terrible and shocking event!
It actually sounds like she really wasn’t looking for help. If you had been able to do any of the things she asked, she very likely would have then gone back to the psycho and both of them would have blamed you for trying to break them up. I’ve seen that drama play all the way through a time or two. It’s really sick and sometimes it is hard to tell who is the deviant in the situation – or if they both are.
I agree with everyone else that you did exactly the right thing though you should not have had to do that. If someone asks you for advice and you give it and they refuse it, there’s really nothing else you can do.
What occurs to me as most interesting is your physical reaction to the situation. One thing that Donna wrote in her book “How to Spot a Dangerous Man” is that we should always pay attention to what our bodies tell us. Andzrej Lobaczewski talks about this also, though in a different way, but I think there is a clue there that connects to your physical reaction. It has to do specifically with the body’s reaction to any interaction with a psychopath when the mask is off. I’ll paraphrase it a bit:
“When the human mind comes into contact with the reality of the psychopathic, which is so different from normal reality, it releases psychophysiological shock symptoms in the human brain. (cortex) This inhibits thinking. The mind works more slowly and less keenly because the associative mechanisms have become inefficient. There is a stifling of feelings, (a feeling of choking) following which the emotions sometimes gush forth uncontrollably.
Psychopaths will use their specific experience to traumatize the minds of the “others” with their own personalities. This causes the mind of their target to fall into a state of short-term catatonia. Their humiliating and arrogant techniques, brutal paramoralizations, and so forth deaden the normal human’s thought processes and self-defense capabilities, and their completely bizarre experiential method anchors in his mind.
Only once these unbelievably unpleasant psychological states have passed, thanks to rest in benevolent company, is it possible to reflect, always a difficult and painful process, or to become aware that one’s mind and common sense have been fooled by something which cannot fit into the normal human imagination.”
I don’t know if you were sickened by the husband’s behavior by proxy through the wife, or if it was due to contact with the wife, herself. My guess is the latter. She sounds like the looper in this situation.
I meant Sandra’s book, not Donna’s!
I’m sure what I’m about to say might not be popular among many romantic partners of sociopaths, but I think it needs to be said.
I think sometimes when people cry out for help with their sociopath…
What they are really crying is, “PLEASE MAKE HIM CHANGE.”
Which, of course, is completely unrealistic, illogical, and futile.
But I think until someone decides to change that mindset, of wanting the sociopath to change, they will continue to put their head on that block.
They won’t get out. They won’t get away. They won’t save themselves.
They want someone else to change the sociopath so they don’t have to do any of that.
And of course, no matter what, that will never happen – probably never with your garden variety abusive jerk, and definitely never with a sociopath.
Laura,
In the book, did it really say “chocking” somewhere? I have that book but haven’t gotten all the way through it. I have described a chocking feeling I have had since my time with the Sociopath and it occurs when I think too much about it, when I see someone being manipulated in a movie, when I read the word Sociopath (sometimes), or have a moment when the meaning of the word Sociopath realy sinks in a little deeper for me, or I recall certain events that were especially upsetting, and so on. I have identified for sure that this chocking feeling which causes me to cough and make a scene sometimes, is directly connected to some distressing thought.
I want to see this in writing because I have wondered when this anxiety reaction will dissapate completely. Sometimes it comes up at really weird times… like in a job interview or something.
alohatraveler: Notice that I said I was going to paraphrase the text a bit. I included the choking comment because that is what I got from Lobaczewski directly in conversation. I questioned him closely about what did he mean exactly. Another point he made was that you get a feeling that is like heat rising up from your solar plexus which flushes your face and that feeling of paralysis “flows” with it. Yeah, I know that sounds weird, but those who have experienced it know exactly what I’m talking about.
There are a lot of problems with the text of Ponerology that we will be fixing in the next edition. It was translated by an academic from academic (very formal) Polish and we didn’t do very much editing (almost NONE except for glaring syntax or grammar errors). Many of the things that are somewhat vague will be clarified and expanded. It just takes time to work on a text that is this dense.