By | November 21, 2012 152 Comments

Why do they always come bouncing back like bad pennies

By Sarah Strudwick

It’s just coming up for three years now since I wrote Dark Souls, in the hope it would help other women who have been though the same as me. In January 2010 I kicked out my psychopathic ex after uncovering a string of lies which included working for a job that never existed, feigning cancer, multiple sexploits on the internet, and advertising his services as a sperm donor. The list goes on.

Over the last three years I have worked tirelessly to get myself out of debt, educate others and, more important, heal from the abuse. Yet up until a couple of months ago, this person continued to stalk me. I’ve had to change my phone number three times as a result, and I lost a fair amount of business along the way. Whilst I now deal with it in a matter-of-fact way, I always assumed he was stalking because he hadn’t found any new narcissistic supply to keep him busy.

A couple of months ago an ex acupuncture client saw me a in the supermarket and asked why she couldn’t get hold of me for an appointment. I explained I had changed my number and directed her to my website.

Distraught text message

In my optimism, since things have been reasonably good for a few months now, I decided to put the number on my site again, Then voilà—a last week I was amazed to receive a very distraught text message from my ex’s current victim, asking me if I know him and when was the last time I slept with him. My first reaction, since my ex has gone under a number of different guises pretending to be other people in order to keep contact with me, was, “Is it genuinely her or him?”  I decided to go on Google and look up the number, which took me to a website he owns.

I was tempted to respond with a comment like, “I’d be more concerned not about ‘when’ was the last time I slept with him, but how many other people he has been seeing during the time they have been together?” After all this is a man who sleeps with “anything,” whether it be women, men or transvestites. But I suggested he or she could call me if they wanted further information. I received a text back saying, “He’s with me now; I can’t talk.” The following day, the number was disconnected.

It goes without saying I was somewhat intrigued as to why she may have contacted me after so long. Although I had evidence about his “sexploits,” there had never been any substantial evidence he was in a “proper” relationship with anyone else apart from me. I was also intrigued that no sooner had I put my website number back up, she called me. I wondered whether he had tracked me down via the internet and used a bit of “torture by triangulation” in order to see what a reaction he would get from either of us.

With that in mind, curiosity killed the cat and I called the number.

The new target

I was shocked to discover that not only was this new target young enough to be his own daughter, but he has had two children with her, in the time we have been apart (one of whom whilst he was with me).

If there was ever a reason not to play “detective,” this had to be one of them. Also, knowing how keen he was to plant his sperm in any women that would be willing to take it, I felt sick seeing the smug look on his face as he smirked holding his new babies. I decided to give myself a big, big slap round the face for even bothering to look. It just goes to show how words and promises mean nothing to them. We should never play detective, no matter how much we have been triggered.

The last time my own family saw him, he had taken my teenage kids out to see “Twilight.” He was telling them how much he loved their mum (i.e. me), and was really looking forwards to sorting himself out and starting a new family with us, since he had left his “horrible” wife. However, I realise now that at that time his new target would have been well and truly pregnant. This probably explains why he wasn’t around at Christmas to support me whilst I recovered in hospital from an internal bleed from an operation. My own daughter had to cook the family Xmas dinner. When he finally did turn up, it comes as no surprise that I kicked him out a few days later in the New Year.

The Disposable Family

I believe psychopaths view their families are utterly disposable. This is a man who had two beautiful, lovely children from his first wife. They are under 10 and still need a father. I assumed he would continue seeing them whether we had had a family or not. However, with the ability to re-invent themselves at the drop of a hat, it comes as no surprise that he has a brand new family. It also doesn’t take rocket science to figure out that it’s only a matter of time before he messes up again. Even worse, and to add insult to injury to his poor first wife, he’s called one of his new children the same name as his son from his previous marriage!

This new woman would not have been able to get my number unless he had searched for it. As I said earlier, I took all phone numbers off my web sites for months. My guess is he’s either already on his way out, and wanted to shift the blame by putting both his current target and myself in a position when if his new partner were to leave him, he could then blame me for “spilling the beans”.

What’s even more interesting was that he would give his poor new, soon to be wife my number. Perhaps it was in order to triangulate and get her all upset. It’s the same as he did to me when he tried to push me to the point where I would tell his own “bitchy” wife that he was having an affair.

Either way, I doubt this woman will contact me again. He’s probably told her the same old sob story about his ex girlfriend being a bitch. He told me his wife was the problem.

Not my responsibility

Despite feeling sorry for his new target, it’s not my responsibility to take on her problems. This man has messed up again. Until he takes responsibility for his own actions, and grows a conscience, it’s only matter of time before he re-invents himself and starts another family all over again.

On a positive note, in January 2013 I celebrate three years being psychopath free. Whilst it’s hurtful to find out that he’s got a new family, I thank my lucky stars daily that I don’t have the legacy of having a family to raise from him to remind me of him.

If I would give anyone any advice after this recent discovery, is that it’s only a matter of time until your ex, or one of their many victims, will turn up again like a bad penny. Whether it’s three months, three years, or 30 years, it’s just one of the many ways in which they try their hardest to remind people (no matter how much you have moved on with your life) they will continue to do their best to remind you they are still there lurking in the background. It may be giving your phone number to new partners, or for whatever reason or making you feel responsible for their new victims. Either way don’t bite, don’t engage and most of all, however hard it is, don’t play detective ever again.

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kim frederick

Sarah, “Torture by triangulation.” Love your choice of words. I think this is a favorite from their bag of tricks. Thanks, Sarah. I’m sorry you took the bait, but you learned a valuable lesson, and I thank you for sharing it with us. It’s a valuable reminder that we are still vulnerable to their antics, even though we’ve learned so much.


Sarah I am sorry that you stepped in a pile of his shit, again.
A leopard doesn’t change his spots. For some reason you needed to see this, and you’ll be stronger for it. HUGS to you.


Ox Drover

Yea, Sarah, even having “back door” contact by looking at their FB pages or talking to their latest victims usually back fires on us. Even those of us who are required by courts to “co-parent” with them or who must keep an eye on them so we can know from whence the bullets might fly….even that mandated back door contact is debilitating (at best) for us.

They do turn up like “bad pennies” though, and I’ve known few if any of them tat don’t turn back up again. Glad you got the lesson, which is the most important thing. Happy holidays!


Sarah, thank you for sharing this article and your experiences – playing “detective” has never resulted in anything more than another stab to the gut, and the most recent misstep was when I was setting up a new FB page (deleted the old one), and cut ties with nearly everyone on my list of “friends.” I saw his new photos when I blocked his profile, and it made me sick. Literally. Another lesson about “No Contact” for me.

Today, in the U.S., we’re celebrating “Thanksgiving.” Traditionally, it is meant to be a celebration of the harvest after surviving a long, hot, mean summer. Most people associate this holiday with family gatherings. Today, I’m celebrating YOUR escape, MY escape, OxD’s escape, Donna’s escape, and the hundreds of thousands of others who were able to GET OUT of their horrific relationships. Today, I’m celebrating survival and recovery. Today, my “thanks” is for the hard, cold truths and the ugliest lessons that a person ever learns about themselves.

Thank you for your article and may you continue your amazing recovery!

Brightest blessings



Thank you for sharing this. I need the reminder not to play detective!

I have only done it once, via google. After looking at his blog, the you tube vids, and the list of fans, I realized I did not care, whatsoever, to know what he was up to. It was the same old crap, just like your ex, without variation. They repeat themselves ad nauseum. It did make my heart rate go up, and my stomach turn, but it didn’t make my heart hurt. It was just so gross.

I think the biggest feeling was humiliation. I was embarrassed for ever having been with him.

This turned into a sense of great relief, humility, and a commitment to continue to treat myself (and other’s) with care and respect.

I wish you well this season of Thanks and gratitude,


Ox Drover

Giving THANKS daily for the survival of those of us who have escaped, and for the many blessings that we in the “western world” have….especially an abundance of food and water, and education….we are INDEED BLESSED. Unfortunately too many times even still, victims of psychopaths and other abusers die at the hands of their abusers, or are emotionally scarred to the point that the suffering never ends.

No matter what we have endured, we can, with educating ourselves and by validating ourselves emotionally survive even the most horrific conditions. Dr. Viktor Frankl, who will always be my hero for writing about the emotional survival during and after his years in a Nazi prison camp (the ultimate psychopathic experience) His writings made me realize that we can over come anything no matter how emotionally painful. Thank you, Dr. Frankl, and thank you Donna Andersen, and Thank you Dr. Liane Leedom, and Thank you Dr. Bob Hare, and the many many others who have shared their knowledge and their journeys with me.



AMEN and God Bless!


OxD….and, I’m so grateful that I found this site when I did. I had a 2 year head start on the information before I discovered what the spath was. If I had NOT had this priceless source of support, encouragement, and wisdom, I would have been in the most horrific tailspin imaginable. I don’t know if I would have been able to extract myself from a second spath marriage, quite honestly.

Many, many thanks to Donna, and the most brightest of blessings to all the readers who have helped me so very, very much.


Thank God and Greyhound the spath is history. almost five year’s now.
I was thinking about the trauma bond, does that last a life time? Kinda like I am so glad I survived and he is gone and it’s all over but there just seem’s to be something that keep’s me tied to the whole ugly episode and him..i guess we arent supposed to forget such things..illusion’s are freaky.


Dance’s with Moon:

I hope you had a good day. I didn’t even eat too much like I thought I would!

God, I hope the trauma bond doesn’t last a lifetime. I think it will kill me. But you may be right. And it may be because we aren’t supposed to forget. I am afraid if I forget, I will make the same mistake again and I have vowed that will never happen. I see red flags all the time now and I heed them; not like before where I would feel or see red flags and ignore what my body and mind were telling me. It’s almost three years for me now. I can’t even believe it’s been that long and I have been questioning myself lately as to why I still feel the way I do after all this time. Of course I tell myself I must be crazy or there must be something drastically wrong with me for still feeling this way.


Louise, Maybe that’s it, we are crazy! But I would rather be crazy then with him any day…..well I hope one of these days I forget him but I kinda doubt it..
If a vampire jumped out of a tree and bit me I would never forget that either. Like I have said, meeting a sociopath is kinda like being under the spell of a vampire…maybe we should get a blood transfusion or something…
I had an ok day Louise…happy TG to you..

Ox Drover

Moon Dancer,

Sugar, my grandpa used to tell me that when a cat has jumped on a HOT STOVE, he is not gonna be put on a cold one….in other words, when we have been burned badly by someone we are always gonna be a bit leery. The cat can’t understand WHY the stove burned him one time and didn’t burn him another time, so he just avoids stoves all together…

We have to learn to understand WHY we got burned, to learn the RED FLAGS of why one person burned and another one doesn’t burn…it may take us a long time to learn those RED FLAGS and to internalize them so that we no longer have FEAR of being burned.

But you know, there are other ways of being burned than in love relationships, I just got nailed a few weeks ago when I bought the dog….and I consider myself an “old horse trader” in the most cautious sense of the word….and I still got burned. I blame myself on that one as much as I blame the scam artists….and that’s the MOST PAINFUL PART IS THE SELF BLAME…but I have come to terms with it now and as we speak I have one kick arse dog lying at my feet, and God help the person who tried to hurt me, she’s got a mouth full of alligator teeth. She’s got hips that are genetically defective, so she may not be around for a long time, but for RIGHT NOW she’s what I need, so sometimes even when we get “scammed” there is something there that is what we need…even if it is just the lesson.

When I think about loyal dogs, and gutsy ones, Hens, I think about the time you came home and your weiner dog was BACKING in through the doggie door, and it turned out she was dragging in a DEAD POSSOM she had killed protecting your home! LOL I can visualize that scene in my sleep, it is one of THE funniest animal stories I have ever heard!

Hope everyone had a great day of Thanksgiving, good food and peace! (and that you didn’t have to work at one of the stores being besieged by Gray Thursday or Black Friday)


Hi Ox,,, The possum killin wiener dog has bad hip’s now also, I think her days of draggin in her kills ( possums frogs and snakes) and putting them in my bed are over.
Happy thanks giving to you Ox..

Ox Drover

Son D’s black mouth curr dog got bitten by a copper head snake last summer, big old snake, and she swelled up like all get out, but she killed that sucker, and I never did even find his head, I guess she ate it…but he was one DAID SNAKE.

Those little wiener dogs were bred to be fierce and they are sure that!



I think you are right…we are crazy! I will speak for myself and say, yes, I think I am.

A blood transfusion or a brain transplant. Then I could forget…



Great post Sarah!
Thanks for your validation.
I thought I was listening to myself,
there, for a moment. You have described
it all to such a remarkable “T”….

Triangulation; yes – playing people against one another
for entertainment. Oh yes. I went through YEARS of
this – OW and OM calling ME – strangers, I never even
have met or know….all at the instruction or spurring on
by “IT”…I don’t and never have played THOSE games…

I merely :::block::: and :::delete:::, of course, it took me
a while to figure it all out. I changed a long standing,
business phone number in an attempt to STOP the
stalking and harassment from “IT” and it’s ‘band of
merry minions’….but, alas, as I had already THOUGHT
would be the case, that anonymity only lasted 90 days.

The intrusions continue.
Does this stalking and stuff REALLY last forever, Sarah?
Does it? I absolutely HATE that this disgusting sick person
has himself attached to me like a blood sucking emotional

I must say, that being away from home all day today,
and spending it with family was a very refreshing way
to just sweep it all under the rug for me and I was most
impressed when I returned home and there was no ‘minion’
messages on my phone nor on my computer, just waiting
for me….

I am breathing a HUGE sigh of relief that I haven’t had
not one inkling of “IT” around today – that’s good….
perhaps I am getting ‘lucky’ and the ‘new victim’ has
“IT” captured well enough that it can’t get free no more
to visit all his OW….

Oh yes, Sarah, I completely SAW my situation in your
post. Unfortunately, the details of my story run a lot
deeper….so deep and so complex, there are times I
don’t even like remembering it all, much less trying to
explain it all to someone.

I have decided that the best thing I can do for myself
and what is left of my life is to try BURYING IT in one
of those PTSD files and forgetting about it…

It’s difficult to forget when you realize that someone would
have murdered you, if you would have let it continue one more
moment…that someone who USED TO BE your best friend in
this life. Someone you have loved more than anything….

Just such betrayal.
I have NO AFFECTION for “IT” any longer…
NONE. The best thing “IT” can do is stay far away from me…
I am in self defense/protective mode and I think I am going
to just get stuck there now…

Eventually, I will move somewhere else…
leave no trails. I don’t understand why “IT”
wants me dead…I don’t understand the obsession.

A therapist told me, recently, that YES, that narcissism DOES
run that deep. I don’t even ‘know’ this person any more. It
has been a couple of years since I saw “IT” last….

The only thing that has worked for me is forgetting and
burying…it’s almost impossible to do but if you try real
hard, it’s possible almost 99.9% – the rest is ruminating
and feeling in between wanting to knock his block off
and laughing – karma always rules in the end, you know.

I SEE karma alive and working…
I believe, absolutely.

No evil done goes left unpunished.
Believe that. ALL OF YOU.
It’s true.

Hope every one got to eat real well….
I was pampered for the whole afternoon and evening…

Wonderful family moments…

Thanks Sarah: you have helped me feel not so alone…
I heard you and you connected with me in a remarkable way.




I am glad you enjoyed Thanksgiving yesterday with family.

Right now I feel very vulnerable to her returning, and to me accepting me back into my life. She took everything that meant anything to me but for some reason I miss her. Thanksgiving was miserable for me, I felt like I had a hole in my soul.

Ox Drover


Holidays do that for many of us, but I suggest that you do something non traditional for a holiday…take a trip or go to a movie. My step son and his family go to the movies after Christmas lunch. I think that is so cool.

Or go rent a hotel room somewhere at a spa resort and get a massage…

Go down and volunteer at your local shelter to serve dinner for the holiday for the less privileged….

Whatever you do, DO NOT STAY HOME ALONE SUCKING YOUR THUMB (emotionally) get out and DO SOMETHING!~

those are tremendously good ideas! Serve others when your heart is broken, it helps to heal.


OxD, what a superb list of ideas! I especially identify with the suggestion to volunteer for the less fortunate. I’m one of the “less fortunate” and having to access the only foodbank for 50 miles, and it’s a horror show. Most of the people standing in the freezing cold and waiting for the doors to open are women. Many have children and infants in tow. And, the 2-week supplemental “groceries” are the worst types of foods imaginable – 100% starch, no fresh produce, and protein (if any) in the form of 4 frozen hamburger patties.

I’ve made a determination that I’m going to get involved in soliciting a better quality of donated foods for this food bank, whether I’m back on my feet, or not. I have a telephone, so I can make some calls, and I have a friend who has a number of CSA (community sustained agriculture) groups in the area. I can “DO SOMETHING” even if many people respond, “No, I can’t help.” Doing something for the benefit of myself and others not only takes the focus away from my own dire situation, but places it upon recovering by doing something instead of sitting in a freezing dwelling and “sucking (my) thumb.” LMAO!!!!!!! YES……I love that!

Brightest blessings

Ox Drover


Too many times I have engaged in the “emotional thumb sucking” and pity party for myself….and it is not something that is productive or fun in any way.

Finding passion in life about something….anything…is, I think, very fundamental to having a life that has meaning.

Too many times we focus (and I’m including myself here) on the harm that has been done to us and we don’t focus on the things we have left, only what we have lost…pooooor me!

So taking the holidays and making them something special, something good, by focusing on new traditions and not sitting around feeling sorry that the “things we used to do” are no more.


OxD, your words are so affirming, and they are true. I’m working hard on focusing on myself and what I have to be truly appreciative of.

And, meeting some of the CSA farmers has gotten me onto a serious train of thought where the local food bank goes. Most people in dire need do not have access to proper nutrition. Some, by choice, but most by necessity. It’s WAY cheaper to pay for 10 boxes of mac & cheese than it is to pay for fresh fruits and produce. One of the CSA farmers actually has solar greenhouses that they grow incredible produce in, and she’s INEXPENSIVE in her own shop! Even her raw milk and grass-fed beef is very, very reasonable. Her porterhouse steaks go for 3.99 lb, and that’s just incredible. SO…..I’m going to approach her (and, other CSA farmers) to see if she would be interested in monthly donations to the food bank. Monthly, or every other month, or something.

It’s very, very easy and tempting to continue sucking my emotional thumb – it sure as hell is. But, I’m a whole lot stronger than that, and I know it.

You wrote strong words, ”

So taking the holidays and making them something special, something good, by focusing on new traditions and not sitting around feeling sorry that the “things we used to do” are no more.” I’d like to take those strong words one step further in that the “things we used to do” were mainly illusion-keeping. Either we desperately worked to keep the illusions alive, or we ruminate about the things we SHOULD have been doing. Just maintaining the fantasy was what made previous holidays such a dreadful drudgery. I wanted (and, believed) that the holidays are special times. The exspath could take them or leave them.

So, yeah……feeling pretty positive, today, and grateful as HAYELL that I wasn’t involed in the Black Friday chaos!!! LOLOL!! It should be renamed to “Black And Blue Eye Friday!”

Brightest blessings – and, hope you’re recovering quickly!


Sorry, Sarah, I’m confused on several points.

First you got a “distraught” text from a woman who is the Psycho’s “latest target.” (For the sake of a name, I’ll call this target “Tara.”) When you texted her back, Tara couldn’t talk because Psycho was with her. The next day, the number was “disconnected.” By “disconnected,” do you mean “taken out of service”? Yet later, out of curiosity, you called that number and apparently got a response from “Tara,” from whom you learned she was young enough to be Psycho’s daughter and they have two children together. I’m wondering how you got an answer from a number that was “disconnected.”

Second, Psycho had a “smug look on his face as he smirked holding his new babies.” I’m not clear whether you were just visualizing this “smug look,” or whether you saw this actual picture somewhere: possibly on the “website he owns” that you referred to earlier?

Finally, and perhaps most important, I’m not at all clear why you think Psycho himself had to be somehow responsible for the fact that “Tara” is contacting you now. Why does it have to be at Psycho’s instigation that she’s doing this? Did she tell you so? Why would Tara “not have been able to get [your] number unless HE had searched for it”?

Lacking any evidence to the contrary, my impression from your story is that it’s most likely Tara herself who dug up your number after you placed it on your Web site. True, Psycho himself may also have been trying to contact you for precisely the reason you gave: that he was still looking for narcissistic supply. Even though he had a new partner at the tme, people of his type like to keep as many strings to their bow as they possibly can. (I assume you do have proof that Psycho was the one trying to contact you, and not someone else?)

But as for Tara, she may well have known who you were all along. She just had no reason to contact you before, that’s all. The fact that she’s “distraught” now and wondering who Psycho has been sleeping with shows beyond question that she’s having serious doubts about Psycho.

As you pointed out, Psycho told you his previous wife was a “bitch” and any breakup was all her fault. I don’t doubt he’s been telling Tara the same thing about you. Tara may have bought his story up until now, but some recent development has opened her eyes to the way he’s been fooling her, and that’s prompted her to get in touch with you to compare notes.

I would personally have thought the LAST thing Psycho would want is for all the females he’s been screwing (in more ways than one!) to actually get together and start swapping their stories of what this guy is really like. That could only incur the risk that they’d all wake up to the truth about him!

I think at bottom, part of what’s bothering me is that you seem to be according too much power altogether to Psycho. Reading your account, it’s as if you think Psycho is the sole “active agent” in anything that happens: that if anything happens, it must be his doing, and nothing can happen without his say-so. Everybody else (including Tara) is a mere puppet jumping at Psycho’s command.

This is simply not true. Other people have power of their own, and the ability to act independently in their own interests—including yourself of course, but also people like Tara. Stop imagining psychopaths as some kind of All-Powerful Boogeymen, and that cuts them down to size; they instantly become far less terrifying.

Ox Drover


Son D and I are playing “dress up” and have on our pre 1840 duds and are going up to the state park where our group is camped out. We went up yesterday but didn’t “dress out” just went in street clothes but I am glad to see that son D is interested in playing “dress up” today (he is feeling better) and actually I am doing better as well. The Physical therapy is helping both physically and mentally for us both.

It is nice to see our friends and just sit around the camp fires and tell outrageous stories…we have some of the best story tellers in the world that will make you roll on the ground peeing yourself laughing. We started this camp out 15 or 18 years ago with some of our friends from the group and one of the park rangers who was a friend and also a member of the group and it has grown through the years, rain, hail, cold, wind, lightening…or fair weather…until now there are 30-50 camps each year. We’ve only missed a few years of this Thanksgiving camp. One of the reasons I wanted to do it was to quit having TG with uncle Monster at egg donor’s and this was a good excuse to not do so without having a hissy fit on her part. Now it has become our TG “tradition”—last year son D and a friend camped up there and I came home at night to sleep on my warm bed. (we are only 45 minutes away from the park)

But I think making new traditions that are REAL rather than just trying to placate someone else’s idea of what TG or Xmas should be should be the order of the day.

I like your idea of asking the CSA folks to donate, maybe they have some left over produce that could be given to folks who need it rather than fed to their hogs or the compost pile. Unfortunately, too many people though, do not know how to cook fresh produce. Maybe you could give some cooking classes for the folks at the pantry. Back when I was in nursing school part of our public service for a class was to teach cooking to a group of women who got food from a pantry. They had a large supply of rice and beans etc but these women had NO idea how to cook it or make good meals out of it.


Rewald, nobody knows whether the teenaged mother was coerced or contacted Sarah on her own. The “reaction” to the contact is a visceral response to an attempt to explain and predict – that’s all. And, this is a very, very common reaction after spath entanglements.

When I discovered the full impact of what the exspath had done, I fully expected (and, attempted to predict) for an attempt to be made upon my life – it’s far cheaper to pay an ex-convict a few hundred dollars than a lifetime of alimony. Paranoia, irrational anxiety, fear-based decisions and reactions….they’re all a part of the carnages.

OxD, what a GREAT IDEA to teach preparation of produce!! Awesome idea! I’m going to explore this, ASAP. Seriously – it’s a very, very good idea.

Brightest blessings


My ex used to say ‘Revenge is a dish best served cold’, so although its nearly 9 years since I threw him out and have relaxed a bit, I’m always aware that at some point he could come back & have on several occasions thought I’ve seen him, which would be a bit odd as he moved to the other end of the country. I can usually tell if it is him by how my body reacts. If I start to sweat & my stomach jumps, then it might be him, if they don’t, then its not.

Whilst I agree in principle its not a good idea to play detective, I found, particularly in the early days when I was trying to work exactly what had happened, how much of what he’d said was true etc etc, I found I needed to KNOW. To know his story, to show myself that I hadn’t just wasted 10 years of my life on a low life who I’d believed was my soul mate.

I checked up on various stories he’d told & discovered that while there was some grains of truth in there, the story was not as he’d told me (what a surprise).

I found I had to construct a ‘history’/’story’ to make sense of what had happened. It may not be the right story, but given the bits i found out it makes sense and helped me move on a bit.

I do occasionally play detective. Whilst it disturbs me somewhat, I feel I am keeping an eye out for him & can be a bit more prepared if something happens out of the blue.


@ Redwald It was a weird situation regarding my ex and his ex’s. He & I used to go & stay at one of his ex GFs places for our holidays. We would get it free, rather than have to pay. I also used to go and visit her with him. I later learnt that although they’d been friends for 10 years & he’d stayed at her place for most of that, they had only been BF & GF for 1 year.

He also introduced me to another friend, who had very briefly been out with him, but had remained friends. We would go on holiday with her to the other friends place, but when she wasn’t there. We would also go out to events etc together.

After I threw him out, it was the first one that made a couple of comments that made me realise that what he’d told me, had been a lie. She had been at certain events or knew certain things which he had ‘mistold’ me. Then the other friend as well told me stuff that I hadn’t know, including the fact that one of the stories that he told, was in fact HER story, but he had changed some details.

For a period of 10 years, we all at various times met, went out together or on holiday together and the truth never materialised.

It was the later friend who had some psyche training suggested that he was a spath. And when he threatened to kill her I decided enough was enough. We are still good friends now :-). She was a real support to him during the early days when I discovered exactly what he was.


WOW. I haven’t been on this site for a few days but reading about being a “detective” really hit home. It’s like a drug. My spath has blocked me on Facebook but (the only gift he ever gave me) but we still have mutual friends on Facebook. One of these friends posted his blog – on Facebook so of course I had to go on and read it. That is where I learned about his latest victims. It made me sick to read it. My palms got sweaty and my stomach churned but then I realized that I had felt that way our entire relationship. Every phone call, every text I was always wondering who it was from. He has very few, if any, male friends. They are all girls. One day we were in a store when “Janet” called. He told her he was with me and dismissed her to me as just a high school friend who lives with her mother and he had helped her out by taking her mother to the Dr. Well he never told me about that at the time and he was the one who insisted we tell each other every move we make. Well now on his sick blog he talks about “Janet” being more than a friend. I know it is her because he told me about her strange eating habits. This girl was obviously more than just a friend while he was dating me or at least there must have been mutual interest there. One night we had an argument because Janet called again. I thought I hit end on the phone but apparently I didn’t and Janet heard our argument and called the police citing domestic violence. Of course there wasn’t so the police asked a few questions and left. I was always frantic with this man because my instincts told me he was never truly “committed” to me. So yes, I play detective. But it doesn’t help me heal. It only keeps the wound from healing. I have had extensive conversations with his third ex wife – unfortunately she had three children with this monster and has to endure him for the rest of her life. I know what he is and who he is and that leopards don’t change their spots. Particularly Spath Leopards! They are incapable of change, feelings or emotion. And I know he will be just as unsuitable of a romantic partner for the rest of his miserable existence. He will lovebomb the next girl and she will either run away or stay like I did and endure the emotional abuse. He found me at the right time – single for a long time and emotionally vulnerable. But now that I am dating non Spaths I realize what normal dating is. Normal patterns. It’s not all lust and romantic words. It is showing up. Caring to ask questions about how your day was and listening to your answers. It is a sweet phone call just to say I am thinking about you. It is a cute text telling you to get your cute butt out of bed. It is taking you and your daughter and her friends out to eat so you don’t have to cook. It is picking up the tab so you don’t have to. It is holding your hand. My spath wanted to know what I was doing every second of every day, well until he got bored with me and began the “discard” process. But I never knew what he was doing or with whom. Well I guess I do now. His ex wife said he has never been with a woman he didn’t cheat on. But the point is – did I listen? No I took him back. The new victims won’t listen to us either because they are in the process of being lovebombed. The hardest part for me is knowing he isn’t capable of loving his three beautiful kids. He uses them as bait to “hook” his next victim. That’s why he blogs about them and posts pictures on Facebook so he can look like this amazing father. And those kids got attached to me and other women in his past. And they get attached and he discards scarring his kids just like he scarred his victim. I know I am doing better. I am thankful I can feel love and real feelings. I care deeply about people. And I hurt like any scorned girlfriend. Not sure why this one hurts more than any other breakup but it does. It’s harder to move on from this one even though I look at this fat, bald, unemployed loser whose full time job is working the welfare system and preying on women – it still hurts. Because my feelings were real and THANK GOD for that. Thanks for listening to my rant. All of you guys help me so much.


DLD: Such a thoughtful and inspiring post.
Very validating, for me, personally.
I thank you, so much for sharing your
‘rant’ with us.

I have shared quite a few, here, myself,
in the past couple years. This is the
‘healing place’ and although I don’t
say too much, very often, I do feed
my soul here, often and hope you will
continue to, as well.

Your story sounds so much like mine.
Fortunately, I never allowed ppath to
get that close and up into my life…..

Lied and lovebombed me for years
and then it just all came crashing down…
lies; all of it. Drama Kings and Queens.

It’s harder to move on from THIS ‘break up’ because
they have played upon our emotions and have struck
the very core of our being BEFORE THEY PUSHED US
off the cliff.

We all make mistakes.
The second chance is a choice.
We are not obligated to that choice.
Least not with them.

I have thrown it all out the window;
sealed, padlocked and have put up
such immense boundaries NOW, they
will never come down or be altered.

I can look back, at what I left behind,
and I can stand up, shake my head “YES”

Yes, I suppose we should be grateful
that at least WE can ‘feel’. THEY can’t
and never will. Everything, to them, is
automatic and it’s all narcissistic and about
them, all the time. NOTHING is going to change
that except for US CHANGING OURSELVES.

It is difficult to effect a change in ourselves.
But that is one thing that sets us apart from

I will keep you in prayer, DLD –
keep on, keepin’ on; hm?

This life belongs to us too.



Thank you Dupey for your kind words. Even though it hurts, it is a bit like being released from prison. I don’t feel frantic or panicked anymore. I used to pace the floor waiting to hear back from this man. No more drama. I was always texting and ignoring my friends and family. They are glad to have me back from the dark side. I am learning to adjust to no drama but frankly I find the non spath boys so boring. I look forward to the day when I can appreciate this new normal and recognize the lovebombing for what it is – control and manipulation. I believe I met the Master! He is truly a wolf in sheeps clothing. I will never again trust a man who does not believe in a Higher Power and despises dogs. Those were always red flags for me but I ignored them. I once told him my father would be horrified to know that he didn’t have a job (or even look for one) and lived off of welfare. He told me “I don’t care what your father thinks of me.” Looking back, I get chills up my spine because he truly does not care what my father or anyone else thinks of him. He isn’t embarrassed to not have a job and live on food stamps. He isn’t embarrassed that his children live half time in his ghetto apartment. The world is his oyster. There are two kinds of people in his world, Predators and prey. I often wonder if he knows he is a sociopath. Does he know what he is? And I was his Sugar Mama. I have a very good job and make a very good living and he was happy to go along for the ride and have me pick up the check. We once went through a drive through and ordered two diet cokes. When he pulled out his wallet I about fell off my chair! And he also has the characteristic of reckless spending. If that man gets a $20 bill, he will go buy movies. He blows though his IRS check like he is a millionaire with money in the bank. He doesn’t have any insurance, his wife pays him child support and he is on food stamps. So you get a little cash and blow it on videos? It would never occur to him to put some money in savings. Because when his phone is turned off, or his electricity, or his internet, someone always steps forward to pay the bill. And you know why? Because they don’t want to lose connection with his “words”. His lies. His deceit. He used to tell me he is incapable of lying when in reality if his lips were moving – he was lying! And yes this has been a tough breakup for me but I constantly remind myself that there is nothing wrong with me. I just happened to meet Satan on the internet and fell for his lovebombing skills which he ahs mastered over his lifetime of preying on innocent women who just want to be cherished and adored. I heal a little more each day – it’s only been 3 months. I will get there. I will come out stronger than ever. And one day he will be a distant memory – the kind you shrug off immediately. I shall pray for you too, my dear.


DLD: You are welcome. Yes, it does hurt but we are still breathing; right?

I have been stalked for the past 13 years and what a ride it has been for me!
The past 2-3 years, I have lived under the shadow
of death threats and attempts and have all but hidden myself and
cut myself off from living. For what? A monster who preys upon
others? I don’t think so. Seriously.

It’s really difficult getting them off of you, at first.
This last NC is going on 7 months now and this is the
sixth time of NC…there will be NO MORE. However, the
stalking continues and well, today has been an absolutely,
amazingly, remarkable day for me. All the good karma has
been flowing in my direction on this day in a great many ways.

I want so much to share it all with you: the wonderful news
I have to share but everything has to be ‘verified’ before I
can say anything. Just know, right now, right this moment,

Pick your chins up off the floor and look –
We are alive and breathing and nobody can
steal that from us. Not even my stalker.

Yes, going on 7 months for me – despite the persistent
stalking and ‘minion intrusions’. Working on the second
change in phone number. However, I am not worried…
quite the opposite: “IT” is the one who should be worried.
Seriously. I am not afraid because if ANY THING ever
happens to me….guess what happens?

Yah: ‘just happened to meet satan (not even worthy of
a capital ‘s’) on the internet…and almost became devoured;
right? That’s usually how it works.

I liken the distant memory of “IT” to flicking pigeon
feces from your shoulder as you walk down the sidewalk
in any major city. Yes, just like that: “FLICK”…

Thanks for the prayers, DLD…
I sure can use all of those I can get.
Right back at ya with all sincerity…

Peace, love and enlightenment to you, Dearest…



Sometimes, “detective work” is necessary for healing. While the real truth about somebody might be painful, truth prevents the wise from making the same mistake twice.

Many here noted that a sociopath almost inevitably turns up again at some point in their victim’s life. To this day, my x-spath’s Facebook profile picture is one that was taken the day we met. Given he lives in London and I live in New York, and the picture was taken in New York, I feel keeping this picture is not only odd but leaves me open to the inevitable, especially given that my x-spath is often alone in hotels due to his job and he drinks.

Had it not been for the detective work and more important this blog, I would still be vulnerable to his charming british manipulations.

Now, I am prepared for the inevitable…


Hello BBE: I agree with you.
It is important with a dangerous ppath to know
some things and to keep tabs on them, however,
one must be careful it does not become obsession
in and of itself.

For instance: since I NC’d for the sixth time, almost 7
months ago, now, I have disciplined myself to not look
or care anymore. I had done such follow up on this
‘thing’ that the more I saw and became aware of,
the more deeply it affected me and prohibited me,
almost, of completely healing.

I had to find that place inside myself where I could say:
“No, I refuse to let this evil person walk through my thoughts
with his dirty feet.” And, that is the way I have been training
myself to feel about it.

I won’t and never will make the same mistake again.
I can assure you of that.

Yes, they seem to always return.
Unless you completely and unequivocally SEVER
that bond they have been holding over you, emotionally.
Although I have attempted this NUMEROUS times, somehow
or another it always finds it’s ugly way back into my space.
Whether that space is physically in front of me or inside my
head. Little ‘nuances’ of taunting fly my way all the time,
unsolicited and my warnings go unheeded.

I have been silent for almost 7 months while the
constant stalking continued on…it has only been
somewhat quiet since I changed my phone number
again and now someone even has that!

It’s like a bad case of herpes that never quite goes away…
I am alright; I can handle all this now that I have recovered
from my heart attack. I am stronger now to deal with what
needs to be done. I am sorry for every thing that has had
to happen in this experience, HOWEVER, I am not sacrificing
my sanity nor my life anymore, over all this, than I already

KARMA DOES eventually catch up with those it needs to.
I BELIEVE that with all my heart.
I have seen it and AM seeing it as I write…

It has been almost 13 years of this now.
It had been just coming back and coming back
and I was always feeling sorry for it and feeling
sorry for it…my friend, I was trying to help…

It seems like it never ends but it does.
Sooner or later it gets quiet and the boogeyman
goes away.

I wonder why he still has that NY picture on his FB profile.
Interesting. A mind stab is what I call it. Of course, sometimes
I really don’t believe that they are in control of their mindless
selves anyways.

I am happy to hear you have your ‘adamant’ on BBE…
Mine has been coming in DROVES lately…

Peace and smiles, Lovey….



BBE, investigating someone’s activities to confirm or refute suspicions is 100% normal and, I agree, necessary. Had I not dug further and discovered that the exspath had actually been acting out his violent fantasies with (at least) another person, I would have probably wallowed in cog/diss for another decade!

I think that it’s dangerous to the Self to “check up” on what the exspath is doing, whom he’s doing it with, and so forth AFTER the relationship has been severed. The reason I believe this is that I do not need one more piece of “evidence” that the exspath is a complete predator. The only “confirmation” that I “needed” prior to the separation was that he was actually having an affair – if you want to call what he was doing “an affair.” EW…..

But, for me to search the internet and google for profiles, etc., is only harmful to me, personally, because my motivation might be to see some shred of remorse or conscience expressed, somewhere. Well, he doesn’t possess a conscience and, therefore, is incapable of experiencing remorse. So, why do I need to have this driven in further like a 16-penny nail into my skull? I don’t. He’s bad. I’m out. That’s it.

ADAMANT………I love it, and I hold onto my adamant with a clenched iron fist.

Brightest blessings!


Truthspeak: All I can say is:
That’s right.

Bingo! You hit the nail right on the head.
Everything you said was right.

After I found out what the ppath was and was all about,
trying to figure it out lead me to LF and a new enlightenment,
I immediately started making preparations to banish “IT” from my world.
The more I learned, the more I found my ‘adamant’.

“IT” gave me NOTHING: no explanations…
just a shove right off the cliff into the abyss…
I was FRANTICALLY searching for answers….

I found more than what I was looking for.
It is ‘chilling’. I have learned I don’t want to look no more.
I have it away from me now. And, I have lots of back up.
It’s over. Finished. There will be NO MORE.

Yet, it continues, still – to this day.
The stalking and intimidation through the mind…

I grew up in dysfunction.
At a very early (young) age, I made a conscious decision
to NOT EVER have that kind of dysfunction in my life. Just
because we ‘love’ someone does not mean we must excuse
nor condone their behavior.

I spent some time researching and doing background stuff
on “IT”. Definitely: it helped me get a good, solid, clear
picture of what this was all about. It helped me make up
my mind.

HOWEVER, as you say: doing it to ‘check up’, that’s another
thing. I absolutely do NOT care “WHAT” is going on with “IT”.
They do NOT change. You could sit them on a rock in the
middle of the desert and go back 20 years later and they
will still be sitting there with that same STUPIDNESS.

I am sorry for them; I am – they are sick people.
But my compassion for their plight does not mean
I must continue being the battering ram nor punching

I found so many things online, doing little checks…
CONVINCING THINGS but you have to be ready for
it. Sometimes the things we find are shocking…
Sometimes what we find searching only adds to the
pain, horror and shock, like it has me….like it was for me.
I mean, you could have knocked me over with a FEATHER…

I am purposely leaving ‘little threads’ to this story OUT due
to recognition and/or identification reasons but there is a lot
more going on right now I just really am not at liberty to
discuss but you guys listen to me:


Yes, Dearie: ADAMANT…
One of EB’s favorite verbiage…

Don’t mess with ME today….
I got my adamant on…!!!!!!!

Happy Day Lovey!



HA: I dug to the bottom of the barrel and back…
I knew there was a bad apple in that barrel…..

I saw it with my own eyes and I am convinced.
It will NOT take a brick wall falling on me to convince
me anymore. And: WHY are these dangerous people
allowed to continue walking amongst the rest of us??
Hm? THAT is MY question.

No way: let the threats continue…
Bring it the hell on…

I have already won –
They so hate losing.

*EDIT (add) – ADAMANT is my mantra for today…



I agree. Investigating is not always good; in fact, most of the time it is just bad business, BUT…I feel, and this is only my opinion, that if a person is still having feelings and ruminations about someone, investigating can unearth things that will make you hate that person. I think sometimes our psyche drives us to do things until we find the truth. Like I remember skylar saying to me once that perhaps the reason I couldn’t forget is because I still had something to learn. I think that goes along with the investigating…you may learn something that makes you HATE the spath and that’s the ultimate goal. We don’t want to have any fuzzy, warm feelings left so that they have the power to manipulate us ever again!!!


Good Morning, btw…

They make us hate them, though…
they do. They NEGATE every decent thing
about themselves by being evil. Then they
hate US for looking at them that way.

Yes: ‘we still have something to learn’…
perhaps about us – that’s what I am finding.
I am able to turn the focus off “IT” and onto “ME”.

THANK GOD: I never thought I would get to this point.



Good morning, Dupey!




“Like I remember skylar saying to me once that perhaps the reason I couldn’t forget is because I still had something to learn.”


Skylar is rarely wrong. I have maintained for some time that the reason I cannot forget is that there are still things I felt I needed to learn. There is also the bizarre nature of the whole relationship, my knowing of him from internet 6 months before I met him in person and then only by coincidence, but mainly how HIV was central to the whole story, my being honest, his being dishonest — include our first big date on World AIDS Day.

Per comments above, I also agree that when confronted with truth, the initial investigations are important; however, at some point they do become counter-productive. My only advice here is to understand that rumination is a sign of clinical depression and treating the depression causes the rumination to subside.

“But, for me to search the internet and google for profiles, etc., is only harmful to me, personally, because my motivation might be to see some shred of remorse or conscience expressed, somewhere. Well, he doesn’t possess a conscience and, therefore, is incapable of experiencing remorse. So, why do I need to have this driven in further like a 16-penny nail into my skull? I don’t. He’s bad. I’m out. That’s it.”


Yup. Once we know “enough”, whatever that is, further investigation is painful and interferes with recovery. Yes, I found out more bad about the x-spath which further confirmed he is a liar. At the same time, I came across photos showing him having a good time, including some from one friend who clearly has a unrequited relationshit with my x-spath.

There is nothing we can do. Spaths are the master of the sanity mask. If I emailed the friend and told him all I know about the x-spath, the warning would not do any good, even if I provided the trail of online and other evidence.

More important, I would look like the crazy one. Time and time again, I have read here that confrontations with sociopaths inevitable lead to the victim being perceived by many as crazy.


Per the above, I just remembered a great observation, I forget the source:

“Crazy people make sane people crazy.”


That is their thought and/or intention, anyways.
Once you grab a hold of that little reality, suddenly,
things start falling into place.

“IT” ALMOST drove me insane and straight to the other side.
HOWEVER: I am stronger than “IT”. Inside and out.

I wash my hands of this ugliness in my life…
NOW, all I gotta do is make it stop stalking me.

I think there may be an app for that; lol…
Maybe I will invent one. lol


That’s funny, “Skylar is rarely wrong.” Well then how the heck did I end up with a spath who was poisoning me for over 25 frickin’ years??!! 😯

Yes, the reason I keep ruminating and studying the spaths for over 3 years now is because I feel there is more that I need to learn. That mistake I made for 25 years, has shaken me to the core. I need to understand what the heck happened.

In medicine and in business, they call it a post mortem. And just when I think I get it, I learn something new; a new perspective, a new angle or a new piece of information.

For example, we know that people who get involved with a spath, either romantically or in their family of origin, will usually repeat the same mistake over and over with other spaths because they haven’t “learned what they needed to know.” But isn’t this the same thing as ruminating about the first spath? The only difference is that we act it out instead of talking it out.

I also believe that spaths are doing exactly this, they are acting out their own trauma because they have never talked it out, instead they have denied their shame. This places them in the vicious cycle of re-living their shameful behavior and attempting to make someone else feel it for them.

I’m not sure, but it seems to me that we will be ruminating until every last bit of slime we were contaminated with (since we were born) gets held up to the light.



You did not know. We did not know. Now, we know. We cannot change the past but we change the future, both ours and that of others. Donna is a good role model in not only providing advice to other but using her experiences with a sociopath to help recoup the financial lost suffered at the hand of a sociopath.

“they are acting out their own trauma because they have never talked it out, instead they have denied their shame.”

I cannot agree with you more and this comment is a remarkably accurate assessment of my x-spath. There is shame in him that he refuses to talk about. Some is regarding his father — that I knew a bit about, although not the details. There is other shame too — I strongly believe my x-spath was not only sexually abused as a child but may have done similar later as a late teen-ager or young adult.

“This places them in the vicious cycle of re-living their shameful behavior and attempting to make someone else feel it for them.”

Going with the very strong assumption that one of my x-spath’s “shames” is being HIV+, what could be more manipulative than dumping me when doctors thought (incorrectly) that I was HIV+?

I had no shame because if it was true, it would have be from an unfortunate accident. I told him (as well as others) because I not only felt no shame but trusted these people, including him. His dumping me at that moment did made me not only think I deserved such; it reinforced the mask of “british reservedness” and “respect” that he was using to manipulate me…


(((BBE))) I completely understood your last post and I am
sorry that there are such horrid and ugly creatures among us.

I have been through what you have in a lot of ways
and it isn’t OUR SHAME we need to be feeling or claiming…

Certainly we have done NOTHING wrong but care for
someone that has completely devoured us.


Yes, I understand how they use ‘reservedness’ and
things like ‘loyalty’ and ‘respect’ and all those other
honorable traits against us. There is nothing lower
than having your own sense of self thrown back in
your face.

I don’t really care if they are acting out their ‘own trauma’
or not – we all have traumas in our lives. Each of us needs
to be and deserves to be respected if only for the unique
individuals that we are. The ppath/spath hasn’t taken that
from us. They would like to think they have sucked away
the very essence of our souls but look: they have not! We
still have them. We are the strongest and don’t you ever
forget that. I have no sympathy for them just because
they are ‘ill’ and/or maybe use (the majority of the time)
BLATANTLY>their ‘illness’ to get away with doing just
DREADFUL THINGS to others. They have the same
opportunity for growth and change as we do.
They have the same opportunities for reflection
and making themselves a better person but they
chose NOT TO. Psychologists have told me that
there really ARE people that are empty shells
and they CANT help themselves and that just is
NOT TRUE. I will never believe that because “I”
drug myself out of dysfunction to find a NON dysfunctional
life for myself from a very young age….I KNOW it is all
about CHOICE.

I prefer to have it all away from me and forever.
There is no coming back from this – never.
At least not for “IT” & I. There are no more words
needing to be said – the only thing this deserves is
a good shove off the cliff. Hm?

If a person would rather snuff you out than respect you,
the only thing you can do is get that person away from you.
Period. I can’t have game players and game changers about
me. It was my “FAULT” for paying the idiot any attention in
the first place and I will be ABSOLUTELY the first one to admit
that. So, I am to be damned to a lifetime of stalking because
I cared about someone who has later threatened and tried to
murder me? Someone I THOUGHT was my best friend.
Never had a clue. Never.

We cannot change the past but we sure can change the future.
OURS firstly and foremostly.

And, I agree with you: Donna is an EXCELLENT role model.
Strong – dynamic – spaths so hate that. lol

Take care of yourself BBE…
Love from the left coast of America xxoo


skylar: I sure hope you are wrong about ruminating the rest of our lives.

I absolutely HATE the thought of that monster sucking it all up and away from me.


Ox Drover

I don’t think we HAVE TO ruminate about them for the rest of our lives….I think if we process the situation (with each one in case we have had more than one) we can come to a resolution and acceptance.

For example….when we were little and we lost “fluffy” the cat/dog/hamster we were devastated and mourned like our life had come to an end but eventually we came to understand death and resolved our grief and came to acceptance and we got to a point in our lives where we could remember “Fluffy” without feeling that tremendous pain we first felt.

As we grew and began to understand death from an adult’s perspective and as we got to “practice” grieving with other losses in our lives, other dogs/cats/hamsters or broken relationships, losses of this or that that we valued we learned to COPE with trauma and loss.

Now, while the “Psychopathic experience” is VERY dramatic and traumatic, I think we can come to a resolution and acceptance with it as well.

Wit my X BF that I thought was going to save me from a life time alone after my husband died….well, it was very TRAUMATIC at first but now, he is not a pimple on an elephant’s butt emotionally to me any more. I can’t say that I totally am indifferent to my P son, but if he would leave me the hell alone and I didn’t have to worry about him getting out of prison and killing me, I could be indifferent to him.

The multitude of People who are “high in P traits” or just plain jerks that have passed through my life and that I have loved to one extent or another but have since booted out of my life….well, I’ve come to a resolution with them…an acceptance of what they are. Doesn’t even bother me to see them any more when we chance to meet at some local event or other.

Of course the higher the trauma the longer it will take so it may not be quick. But I think we can recover.

I hope I’m wrong too. I want to forget.

The sexual abuse as a child really hits home. My ex-spath’s dad and grand dad were both spaths, but he ran away when his mom divorced his dad, when he was 12 years old. He went to live with a prostitute.

I have no doubt that he was sexually abused there.

It’s sad that I was so young and ignorant when he told me these things. He didn’t say he was abused, he said just the opposite. He said that a young boy is lucky to get to have sex with an older woman and that when a young boy turns in his teacher after having sex with her, HE should go to jail for ratting on her.

Of course, now I know that he was having sex with men and I’m sure the prostitute sold him to them. I’m certain that he was abused during that time and possibly before that, as a young boy living at home. He was in denial about his shame.

I feel bad that I didn’t “get it”, when he told me, but then, at age 17, I didn’t really understand sexual abuse and he certainly didn’t act like he’d been hurt or shamed during his formative years. More than that, I also know that it wouldn’t have made any difference. There is nothing I can do about his past or mine. You are certainly right about that.

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