Do you suspect that someone you work with is a psychopath? Do they act superficially charming, lack remorse, lie to you, cheat, or attempt to manipulate you? Read more to find out about our study.
Dear Members of the Lovefraud Blog,
My name is Janelle and I am a Master’s student at Carleton University in Ottawa, Canada. I’m currently working on my Master’s thesis in Forensic Psychology under the supervision of Dr. Adelle Forth. The topic of my research is psychopathy in the workplace and the effects this has on victims.
Psychopathy in the workplace is a relatively new area of study in psychology. Most of the research to date focuses on the psychopathic individuals while neglecting to take into account the voices of survivors. I want to investigate how psychopaths establish relationships in the work environment and the behaviours they exhibit that lead you to believe they are psychopathic or that have victimized you. I also want to know what effects and impacts the relationship has had on your job and your life outside of work.
If you believe that someone you work with possesses psychopathic traits and you would like to share your experience by participating in the study, please click here. This link also contains more information on the study. Please note you must be 18 years of age or older to participate and the study is only available in English. Any questions, comments, or feedback about this research project or its content, are welcome at working.with.psychopath@gmail.com
Sincerely,
Janelle
UPDATE
The survey is now closed. Thank you to everyone who participated.
Oxy,
I agree that the fence sitters are a problem and if EVERYONE could come together and put the spaths on an ice floe, that would certainly help.
But I’m wondering, could it not be in some way that the fence sitters are doing a sort of self protective gray rock? I mean, see, hear and speak no evil — stay off the spath’s radar and he might not target you.
My daughter is going through a quandary right now. She is in an advanced academic program at her school. This program is smaller than the regular academic program, and it is headed by (to me) a very narcissistic man. I have had run-ins with this guy, and my spathdar is trained on him. I don’t know where he is on the continuum, but there are distinct red flags.
The game he plays is the spath game of, “I win, and you lose.” I say that he is narcissistic because he has no empathy, and he is self-aggrandizing. He also manipulates information to manipulate people. He withholds information, then blames you for not knowing it. He claims to send emails which you do not receive, then it is your fault for not knowing. He flagrantly disregards boundaries… my daughter has sent him a few emails (this is how it is done these days — kids email their teachers with questions) which he then responds to in very condescending, blaming, and also extreme put-downs… while he cc’s the world (both parents, her guidance counselor, other teachers…) which feels like an incredible violation to her (duh!) because she considered her email to him to be private — and the cc to everyone included her initial, private email.
Most recent problem was he manipulated information and she was unaware of a deadline which she had difficulty meeting, and she requested an extension and promised to do the necessary work. Her request was respectful and also a bit clumsy due to her age and inexperience, but it was clear that it was sincere. His response (to the world) was berating her for her idiocy and lack of caring about deadlines, and how dare she be such a bad child as to request this of him, and certainly there will be no extension of the deadline, and therefore she will fail out of the program and not receive her completion certificate.
he has the power to make these decisions and to not make exceptions. However, it is his methods that make me so angry.
I have worked so hard to guide my kids to be self-advocates and not have Mommy meddle in their schooling. I want them to deal directly with their teachers and adults at the school. This is their training ground for the future. And I wish so much that the adults at the school were NORMAL and would also encourage the self-advocacy and recognize her sincerity (most of the other kids who couldn’t meet the deadlines because of this guy’s screwy lack of clear communication just FORGED THE DOCUMENTS — my kid was HONEST and now she is being punished — she is spath-bait, for sure). — I wish the adults would respond with compassion, even if they have to turn down her request.
She is now being taught unfortunately that LYING would have been a better plan — she could have forged the documents, just like most of her classmates. she was tryign to be ethical, and instead that caught the eye of this probable spath, who said in effect, “aha! I see you have stepped into the ring to play my game of I WIN — AND YOU LOSE…”
20years, I think that people sit the fence for a couple of reasons. The main reason is simply denial. The next most powerful reason/excuse is fear – they fear that the spath has power and control over their lives, and they often do. I don’t think that it’s really a self-imposed “grey rock” reaction so much as wilfull denial and fear.
There is a board member for the facility where I work that is 100% sociopath. He was hired for the position without a lot of qualification or experience, but he was able to charm other Board members well in advance of applying for it. Once he got the position, he began an overt campaign of Divide-And-Conquer among the staff. He is emotionally and verbally abusive to the non-tenured people and OFTEN reminds them that they do not have tenure as a veiled threat.
One day, he met with my Director in her office to discuss a multi-million dollar project that had been proposed. They were supposed to have lunch, but they remained in her office for nearly 2 hours. I overheard him talking about another person that he had been targeting and I actually heard him say that he enjoyed “pushing her buttons” because he could. In the midst of this conversation, I knocked on the Director’s door and HE answered, “YES?” I didn’t even acknowledge him but told my Director that I was just getting something that I needed out of her office. I was looking directly AT her and he said, “Yeah, that’s fine.” He was, essentially, giving ME permission to enter my Director’s office and then dismissed me as if I were a gnat.
My Director does not have tenure and she is in constant fear of losing her position, and always HAS been. This man threatens people, tells them straight-up lies about policies, procedures, and projects, and he screams (literally) at non-tenured people when they’ve made an error or have somehow displeased him. Everyone is afraid of him, now, and he is categorically despised, though these people feel utterly powerless.
Workplace sociopathy is just as damaging as interpersonal sociopathy can be. Sometimes, it can be even more horrible because people’s lives depend upon their employment.
The quick and unempathetic response to this type of situation is always, “Well, get a job somewhere else, then.” It’s NOT always that easy, and in this current economic climate, people are grateful to have a fast-food position, much less a long-term gig with benefits.
Truthspeak,
I completely agree with everything you said. And I know this is a thread about workplace bullying/sociopaths in the workplace.
I’m seeing total parallels with the institutional bullying/sociopathy that is going on at my child’s school… no, she does not have the power to “change schools.” Unless we were to pull her out and put her in private school. But as you said about the economy and it not being all that simple to “change jobs,” it is not very simple to change schools.
The kids fear this man. He kisses up to the adults who probably don’t see what he does as a mask. He let his mask off very early in my first meeting him, and I think this is because I made one of those requests for a waiver of one requirement for my kid to be in the program (this was not an unreasonable request and I made it respectfully). He literally screamed at me and did the “you had this information — you knew” when in fact he had NEVER sent me any emails whatsoever (or they had not been received).
In any case… I ended up going over his head because sometimes parents just gotta advocate for their kids and in fact, I knew people in higher places (don’t like to use that, but I will if necessary). some battles are worth fighting. I prevailed. I’m sure he resents that. But his discourtesy to me and my kids is completely uncalled for.
His screaming at my child yesterday was very upsetting to her — totally uncalled for. He will deny it, and adults will believe him because they only see his professional side.
I do not like my child being subjected to this. On the other hand, it presents an opportunity for spath education. Sad — very, very sad.
The other point had loosely to do with bystanders/fence sitters AND whether or not it is sometimes OK for a target to LIE in order to protect their interests.
I do not condone lying, I’m one of those honest people who never shoplifted as a child, doesn’t steal pens from work, etc. And you know… the older I get… the more I think, sometimes being ethical and honest means you LOSE these battles with the spaths.
And is that OK?
I mean, with my husband… yes, I did end up resorting to lying, and it hurt me deep inside, because I felt guilty that I “stooped to” that, or lowered myself to his level, or whatever. I know it was self protective, but … ethically, is it better to pretend and mislead (lie to) a spath in order to protect your interests? Or to be always honest (I don’t mean necessarily volunteering information that you could keep to yourself, but if asked directly, must one always tell the truth, even though it can AND WILL be used against you by a spath?)
I think they target the honest ones.
Here’s the very, very dishonest thing I did when I was married. Now, I know it is a ridiculous thing, but I want to share: my husband was so controlling with the money (and there was more than plenty) that he would not release approximately $350 for me to buy a plane ticket to go to my beloved cousin’s wedding. I ended up not going, because I had no access to the money. I can never get that experience back (can’t go back in time to have a re-do). But I got so burning mad, and felt so helpless, that I got myself a PO box, I got myself a secret bank account, and I “pretended” that I’d hired a maid to clean the house twice a month (my husband complained about my poor housekeeping skills and wanted to hire a maid). I hired “myself” and twice a month I busted my butt for 4 hours (neglecting our baby) cleaning top to bottom, and paid myself a fair wage.
I amassed about $400, enough for a plane ticket.
My intention was only to have enough funds that should this type of situation ever come up again, a friend or relative having a wedding out of town — that I could have the money to go.
Was that elaborate lie that I did — a very, very bad thing?
I do feel bad for the deception — especially how elaborate it was.
And I also feel that I was pushed to act unethically.
That is kind of how I feel about my daughter, and I wonder what lessons she is learning from her interactions with this program director. To protect her interests — would be better for her to lie.
But lying is what spaths do — and so… it seems a tainted or dirty way to act.
I’m sure lots of folks feel driven to behaving unethically, as a form of self-protection. But where does it then end?
20years….when I was in the “thick of things” with BOTH exspaths, I would have to “lie” to get necessities.
I don’t believe that getting a PO Box, setting up an individual account, and hiring yourself to save money made you a “bad person,” by any stretch of the imagination! Not at ALL….no sir, no ma’am! I wish that I had developed something similar in BOTH marriages! WOW…..what a GREAT way to save up for a separation/divorce/exit!!!
I agree that spaths target “honest” people because they target those things that they do not have, themselves, and never will have: honesty, integrity, truthfulness, loyalty, empathy, sincerity, etc……they DO gravitate towards the things that they will never have. And, if they can, they destroy that which they cannot ever have.
I believe, for myself, that my sociopathic entanglements caused me to take “unethical” steps and make choices that are against our principals because, for the most part, we have been backed into a corner. Financially, emotionally, physically, sexually, and spiritually, we have been backed into that corner and, fight or flight, we do whatever we must to survive for the next hour.
I don’t believe that it is tainted, dirty, or necessarily makes us “bad” people. What WOULD make it tainted, dirty, or bad would be if we were making choices and decisions that were strictly at the expense of another person for our own gain. Hiding comingled money because we are not “allowed” access to joint accounts is not dirty – it’s survival. We know that we’ll be punished if we make any noise about the issue – we’ve been punished before for far, far less. So….what’s the alternative?
Sheeeeyit, the first exspath coerced me into filing a false insurance claim. If I didn’t go along with his scheme, he promised that he would not “allow” me to get groceries and pay the utilities. From past experiences, I knew that he would follow through with his threats and make them good. Should I have done it? Nope…. Did I know that I had options at that time? Nope….
Two words: Stockholm Syndrome
Forgive yourself, 20years! You did what you had to do at that time with the tools that you had available. NONE of us are perfect, so I’m not casting a single pebble in your direction!
HUGS and agape!
20 years he may be narcissistic but ALL psychopaths are narcistic, and with him being manipulative I would say he tends toward the P end more than “Just” an N.
In nazi Germany only about 10% of the people were actually Nazis, but the rest “went along to get along” and look what happened, WWII and 6 million people killed/tortured.
You know all that it takes for evil to flourish is for good men to do nothing. sure, I realize that “whistle blowers” sometimes suffer for doing so…look what they did to Jesus Christ for blowing the whistle on the evil guys at the top of the civil and religious world in which he lived.
We all have to make choices in life…right or wrong. Self serving or standing up for what we believe is right. sometimes the “fight” is worth it, sometimes it isn’t. sometimes we win, sometimes we end up crucified.
ps you know, thinking back about my “summer of chaos” if my son c had stood with me I think we would have won the round, but because he chose to NOT do what he knew was right…to stand idly by while my egg donor, his brother and his wife and her boy friend tried to drive me from my home and/or to kill me.
When his wife and her BF were arrested for trying to kill him, he told me in what I felt was a “sincere” apology “Mom, you were a prophet”—but looking back I can see that he not only didn’t stand up for me, he didn’t even WARN me what was going on. He had done the same thing in the past when he knew his brother was stealing, when he knew his brother was stealing my car at night to haul his loot…and you know, I “forgave” him, but also RESTORED trust to him….which was not a wise thing to do on my part. A couple of years ago when i caught him lying to me, really over what was an “unimportant” thing, I realized (finally) that I COULD NOT TRUST HIM. that his repentance was not long lasting if it even had been genuine. (He’s such a poor liar I think it was probably genuine at the time, but he just has no loyalty)
My son D put everything he/we had on the line to stick with me, he even stayed awake (unknown to me) every night from dark until daylight for almost a month guarding me while I slept before I finally realized that we had to “disappear” in order to be safe.
So who should I trust? Who did the right thing? the honorable thing? D was “invited” to join forces with my enemies but he refused and it could have, and still might, cost him his life, because as long as Patrick is still alive, in prison or out, he is a danger to both of us.
Oxy,
your son C said, “you were a prophet.” WTF?
He called you a prophet for figuring out what he already knew? The only thing he didn’t know was that they were going to kill HIM.
To call you a prophet is to say that only a miracle could have revealed that evil people do evil. hmm…
If your son D had stood with them, he might have been killed too. It didn’t help C any to side with them, did it? I guess you’d have to be a prophet to see that. 😯
Indeed, we do what we need to in order to survive. During WWI, WWII, and Korean Wars, there were organized pockets of “resistence” that formed to thwart the invading evil. Most of the human beings who were involved in those organizations were adamantly opposed to the invaders and made incredible sacrifices and took unbelievable risks (some, to their own end) to fight for what was being taken away from them. Of course, there HAD to have been spaths/ppaths involved, but the majority of those folks had to engage in risky and seriously “unethical” actions in their fight.
There you go. You either fight with the tools that are available, or you lie down and die (or, suffer WORSE than death). Which choice is worse?
Oxy, these are deep questions you pose.
If it is “someone’s life” vs. someone’s job or someone’s academic position (grades, diploma, etc.) — does that make a difference?
In the see, hear, speak no evil — folks, that is deliberately choosing not to see, hear and speak (warn, expose). It is their very own hands covering up their eyes, ears and mouth. I was not taught to interpret it this way, however… what I was taught was that “we must not” speak evil things (cruel words or lies), and we should “turn our eyes away from” evil (don’t watch porn or stand around and watch people fighting as though it were sport — walk away) and “do not listen to gossip or evil things — avoid that/do not participate — associate only with kind people.” It was taught to me more as a “lead us not into temptation” thing — do not associate with evil.
But now I see it differently — it is about the bystanders who choose to pretend that what they just saw or heard, was not harmful. And they choose not to expose or warn. And their pretense is also a lie/evil.
But I’m really wrestling over the lying, which is what spaths are ALL about, and how one way of abusing a target is to destroy their personal sense of integrity by putting them in these backed-into-a-corner “impossible” positions, or closing off their options so that they feel they have no choice but to act against their sense of personal integrity. It is another kind of poisoning.
My spath used this against me…. and continues to. He was physically abusive to me, repeatedly, over the years we were married. One time — ONE TIME — I (actually calculatingly) HIT HIM BACK. Not all that hard — but a shove to get his attention and hopefully make him stop. I had been thinking and thinking and thinking… “am I allowed to fight back?” because I was a non-violent person and I had been taught to defend myself with “words.” And that is what I’d been trying to do, and it wasn’t working. I had tried all sorts of things: pleading, reasoning, stern, “stop it!” and “that is uncalled for” and “that hurts me — please stop” and I had tried crying, I had tried cowering on the floor (hoping he would see how afraid I was — and I was afraid — it was not me pretending), holding up hands to “ward off his blows,” allowing myself to show my shock and confusion and pain in facial expressions and body language… and all kinds of resistance which I thought was “acceptable and allowed.”
But the hitting back — nope, that is not anything I’d ever been taught I was allowed to do. It was “wrong.” But one day, I felt I’d tried everything except THAT, so I thought, “well, maybe… next time…. maybe I will allow myself to strike him back IF he strikes me first.”
So I did.
And I immediately felt so AWFUL and DIRTY and my belief about myself as a nonviolent person shattered (oh my gosh, what ELSE am I capable of???).
And he was surprised and shocked, and said, “you HIT me! don’t you EVER do that AGAIN!!!” with such a look of rage and sneering contempt, and then he hit me. And I didn’t hit him back. I allowed myself instead fall to the floor, shaking and in a submissive position. That usually worked. (I’m not sayign I was faking — just that I could see that my hitting him did NOT work, and what had worked in the past, namely, becoming submissive and weak — might work this time). And he stopped. He loooked at me with such contempt and derision at my weakness, and said some very nasty things about how I reminded him of his mother, and he left me there.
So. Hitting back did not work. And it made me feel bad about myself inside.
To this day, he will say to various CPS investigators and therapists, “we both did it. We had a physically violent relationship. She hit me, too.”
It makes me angry, because that statement is true. And I am not a dishonest person. I have to say…. yes, it is true. I did hit him. Once.
So that is another way that spaths abuse us. They “get us to” act against our personal integrity. It is another sort of shame/blame projection onto us.
20years……stop it, right now. You did not concoct an elaborate scheme to damage someone for your own pleasure or entertainment. It’s NOT the same thing cut from the same sociopathic cloth. It simply isn’t.
They try to destroy what they will NEVER have – wether it’s financial independence, honesty, truthfulness, etc…..
Have you been truthful and honest about the things that you had to do in order to survive? Yes, you have. The spath, on the other hand, will NEVER, ever, ever, ever admit to having ever, ever, ever done anything that might even be questionable.
20years – you are NOT a “bad person” nor did you “lie.” You did what you could with the tools that you had at that time.
Now….have a cup of coffee and a piece of buttercream chocolate.
HUGS to you, dear one