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10 reasons why sociopaths’ lies seem so believable

lies-magnifier-represents-no-lying-and-correctWhen we finally figure out that just about everything a sociopath told us is a lie, we are shocked. How can anyone lie so fluently? And why did we fall for it?

Here are 10 reasons why the lies sociopaths tell seem so believable:

  1. Sociopaths tell you how honest they are

Early on, sociopaths may tell you how much they value honesty, that truthfulness is the foundation of all relationships. Their objective is to convince you of their trustworthiness, so that when you encounter their lies, you don’t see them.

  1. Sociopaths lie while they look directly into your eyes

Some experts say that if people look up and to their right while speaking, it’s a sign that they are lying. Other experts dispute this. Regardless, we all tend to believe that if someone can look us in the eye while talking, then they are telling the truth. Sociopaths know this, so they look us in the eye as they lie.

  1. Sociopaths mix truth with lies

This is a key sociopathic strategy mixing truth with lies. You know for a fact that some of what the sociopath says is true (and the sociopath knows that you know), so you infer that the rest is true. Unfortunately, you’re wrong.

  1. Everything is a lie

One way that we spot lies is by noticing change. At first, the story was this, now it’s that. With a sociopath, however, there is no change to notice, because the lying starts from the very beginning and just keeps going.

  1. Sociopaths lie with no physical reaction

Lying makes most of us feel anxious, which causes physical symptoms. These symptoms are what polygraph machines measure changes in heart rates/blood pressure, respiration and skin conductivity. Because sociopaths are comfortable lying, they feel no anxiety, so there are no physical changes to observe.

  1. Sociopaths cover their lies with more lies

When we confront sociopaths about their lies, they tell more lies to cover up the original lies. Most of us would never be able to keep all the lies straight, but sociopaths are frequently gifted in this they can remember exactly what they told to whom, and they keep the story going.

  1. “I would never lie!”

When questioned about something they said, sociopaths often proclaim, with righteous indignation, that they would never lie. They are so emphatic about this, and so obviously crestfallen that you could possibly think that they lied, that you end up apologizing even though they are, in fact, lying.

  1. Sociopaths lie with complete confidence

It’s hard to imagine that someone who is so charismatic, charming and confident, is also a complete liar. They exhibit no doubt whatsoever. They seem to command you to believe them so you do.

  1. The claims are so outrageous that they must be true

Sociopaths claim to be special forces soldiers, foreign royalty, Ph.D. scientists, born-again Christians, spiritual leaders and more. They may forge or buy certificates, medals and other documentation to prove their stories. You can’t imagine anyone would have the nerve to make such claims without them being true so you believe them.

  1. Practice makes perfect, and sociopaths practice a lot

The more sociopaths lie, the better they get at it and typically, sociopaths have been lying all their lives. So they are very, very good at it. Unfortunately, most humans are lousy lie detectors, so the rest of us simply haven’t got a chance. Sociopaths lie, and we don’t spot the lies until it’s too late.

 



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132 Comments on "10 reasons why sociopaths’ lies seem so believable"

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This is all so F***ING true.

Now that I see this in black and white it was there the whole time. I feel like a fool

Yes, we all do after the fact.

But, we shouldn’t feel like fools. Not even a bit.

I too believed EVERYTHING he told me; even though I suspected he was ‘fibbing’ or doctoring the truth to make himself ‘look good’some of the time. I wrote it off as his being insecure, being maltreated in his life (before me), needing MY love, compassion, caring to help him become a good man. But..as I learned, it was ALL LIES, every darn bit of any speech-making he did to me, at me..WAS LIES.on top of LIES. Did I feel like a fool, when I found this out, little by little? You bet I did. Became very judgmental of myself for swallowing ALL of his bilge, not questioning any of it. Not even being told “I love you, love you”..lies all of it. He did it for HIS own agenda..and in his mind, lies work as well as the truth.

I clearly remember the numerous, NUMEROUS conversations Justin and I had at the beginning of our relationship about infidelity and how it seemed that he had as much of an absolute ZERO tolerance toward it as I did. I remember even saying to him, “I KNOW YOU will never cheat on me, because if you did, that would make you the biggest hypocrite in the world, as much as you vehemently abhor it! “ I felt safe in this regard, but became increasingly concerned when he was constantly accusing ME of cheating, with absolutely no basis for it.
ӬWhen the evidence began to surface and continue to stack up, I was his biggest proponent in successfully enabling him to continue to cheat on me, which he did from DAY ONE, because I was in so much shock over slowly discovering this was the complete opposite of who he had presented to me in every single way, I actually enabled him for a long time by simply refusing to believe it, even when I caught him with his hand in the cookie jar and crumbs all over his face!

And when I finally got a hold of his phone and only saw ONE day’s worth of texts, I saw that he was cheating on me with THIRTEEN different women! THIRTEEN!!! This, after he literally tortured me over two lines of harmless flirting with a guy i was playing Words with Friends with, whom I had no interest in and never even found out his name, not to mention he lived in a different state! (And this happened within the first month of our dating, which, by the way, was during the time he was professing his love to me through misty, teary eyes. Same time frame that he was also going home to his live-in girlfriend as well.)

I should have seen all of his lies. But I’d never come across ANYONE that could stack lie upon lie upon lie upon lie! When I finally figured out what he was, and I went down the SOCIOPATH checklist, I was absolutely floored to see I had checked off every, single trait of a sociopath in him. Unbelievable.

Lack of empathy. Check.
No remorse. Check.
Sexually promiscuous. Check.
Gambling addiction. Check.
Criminal record. Check.
High risk behavior. Check.
Attitude that he was above the law. Check.
Violent. Check.
Out of control anger. Check.
Would always flip what he’d gotten caught doing and somehow make it my fault. Check.
And on and on and on”.

In the end, I ended up with a FELONY STRIKE on what was up until this point a perfectly clean record, not even a DUI or a misdemeanor.
I lost my entire family.
He’s stolen all of my valuables and all of my money. Pretty much everything that wasn’t nailed down., that after I of course supported him completely for 3 years.
Scars from the physical abuse.
At one point he shoved me down so hard I peed myself.
He had even stolen a blank check from my elderly mother’s bank account in addition to stealing all of my Coach purses and selling them to the ’hood rats he’d been f*#king.
All in all, $10,000 in cash”.gone. $14,000 in valuables”.gone.
Crushed heart. 3 years wasted. Major trust issues now. Self esteem to rebuild. Wow. WOW.

I sincerely feel for you as I do for myself. I am much older and should be wiser. I have been back and forth in a sick relationship with a sociopath of another kind.

He is not an out an out crook but he uses women and has been using me for the last two years. He is a great liar and I know when he is lying. I cannot seem to completely break away from him. I have tried the no contact rule and it lasts for a while then he stalks me. He is a married man whose wife allowed him and still allows him to stay at my home. In two years we must have broken up at least 25 times. He is extremely possessive or he uses it as a tool to fight with me when he needs to break up. I usually let him because I need the break from him anyway. This is the part that scares me. I allow him back and I miss him when he is not around even though he displays crazy behavior with respect to constant checking on me, accusing me of things that I would never ever do and just about anything else you can think of.

This man found me at my lowest. I suffered the loss of my husband about five years prior and I take care of my elderly mother. Most men don’t want any part of this program. This man has been kind to my mother and has been through some rough patches. He stayed with me when I had surgery and took care of me. He shows at time what seems genuine feelings.

This story is so convoluted that it would take a book to write about it. I know his personality, I play into many times and I have expended thousands of dollars on him in two years. He has never stolen anything from me and the money for the most part was because I knew he had so little and I did not mind at first. But, he and his wife I believe are in it together. I am in touch with his daughter in law and we speak daily, I have had contact with his grandchildren and they think I am an aunt. I have intertwined myself in the family dynamic somehow and this at times have proved to cause me to break up with him, block him and ignore him the best I can.

Crazy as it sounds this man is lost without me and when I do finally let him back in he looks like hell. I let him back again and I believe he has motive and I am going to let him play it out. One day this story may be a best seller.

My children will disown me if I were to ever let this man divorce his wife and marry me. I doubt he ever would divorce his wife even though he has cheated on her the entire time they have been together. Although we have been together for two years, it was this last year he has spent almost the entire year with me and I am certain he never cheated on me. I don’t know why because with every women he has been with outside his marriage, he has cheated on them.

Having a degree in Human Services I think the social worker in me thinks I can change this person. I know I can’t completely change him but his daughter in law admits she has seen plenty in the seven years married to his son and has seen improvement while he is with me. But, he still has some severe issues that I have not completely diagnosed and besides sociopathic behavior I believe there is much more going on in that head of his. Sometimes I believe bipolar and other times I believe borderline personality disorder. I also believe he is dyslexic. There is a lot going on but he is also European and his culture also brings another aspect to his behavior we Americans don’t tolerate.

I know I am lonely and at my age I know there are slim pickings and in most cases they have a different set of problems. I watch girlfriends go through men like crazy. I will probably eventually end this but for now he is in my life. I will not allow him to drain me dry that is for sure.

All the best to you.

I am so sorry that you have had to go through all of this.

What a nightmare.

It is so easy to be duped by these types, and they seem to target intelligent, warm empathetic people. I can see these things in your post. You have all of those wonderful qualities that the shitbags want to suck out of you…because they are not those things. They literally envy and ‘hate’ good people, for they are not that.

It just makes me sick when I read these stories again and again. What a spath epidemic this world seems to have.

So relieved that you are out of it. All the best to you and yoor new life.

Dear catnoch,

Being single and alone, even in your 50’s or 60’s or older is not a death sentence. In fact, if you are engaged in life and taking appropriate risks – taking classes, teaching, traveling, or whatever you may like to do – you don’t have time for fear and worry about aging – you will be actively engaged in your life. You will begin to attract similar people, and the next thing you know, you will have healthier relationships. It’s possible to be single without being lonely. And personally, I find it’s good to have standards and not to lower them. Every time I’ve lowered my standards out of loneliness, it never ended well.

Stargazer:
You are 100% correct. I went way low with this man and now I am not interested so much in having a man. I need to work on getting my life back. With exception of a few I still have a true friend base and my family are so happy I am finally rid of this man. I did it finally last night after observing his behavior in the course of the last few days and the wonderful words written here.

I thank you and the others and especially Donna.

Best regards,

We’ve all been there, catnoch. Congratulations on the start of your recovery and new life.

For the last few months I had been up and down with continuous break ups and then getting back together again. This creature was so complexed it is often too difficult to reconcile in my brain why would any human being want to be associated with him. But I was and as Donna has said to me, it was an addiction.

I am not sure if my words here are of any value to anyone reading them, but I want to pass along what I exposed myself to and knowing all along exactly what this man was all about. He was about what he could get for himself and his family. When I first met him he had told me he was divorced and had left his wife back in Bosnia and was living with his two sons. Lie number one. Later I found out he had a girlfriend after I came home from a trip.

My sexual relationship began with phone sex and I had no physical contact with him in the beginning. It would not be until later that I would learn this sociopath could not switch it on and off that easily. You see he had to put distance between his sexual encounters. Even though he was a no good for nothing cheat, he had his own set of standards and now that I look back at it I realize why at times he would behave the way he did. He liked sex that was certain and I suppose that was my drug. He knew how to satisfy me even if the actual act of sex did not take place and that would make me think. How many men do that. Well, now I know. This man did that because he could not mentally or maybe physically perform had he been with either his wife or another. I didn’t think it possible because he was with me most times after work and his spare time, however the frequent break-ups now have me realizing how clever he was. Even though we would break up, I would block his calls and have nothing to do with him, he would leave messages where the blocked messages go or use someone else’s phone to call me. He would also stalk me and find who I was with and what I was doing and report back to me often accusing me of things that never happened. He used this tactic often. Always accusing me of some disgusting act and often saying I went a girlfriend to have sex.

For the most part I live a very isolated life taking care of my mother most days. I get help when I have to go out and I can sneak out to the grocery store because of how I have my house set up so she can’t leave. This man knows this. However, he would call me all day long asking me why it took me so long to answer the phone, what was I doing, he would say he heard other voices and someone must be here in the house with me. He had me fire my lawn guys who I had for 11 years saying I must have had something to do with one of them which was so ludicrous anyone who knows me that would never happen. He then had me buy lawn equipment and said he would do the lawn. Well guess who was doing the lawn? He would always say it didn’t need it. I live in a deed restricted gated community and you know how they are? He would ask me why I needed to go to the store, why I needed to get my nails done on whatever day it was. If I had to go run errands and he was working he would accuse me of doing something behind his back. I know all of it was part of his manipulation and I was always living on eggshells. At my age and with the job I have taking care of my mother I did not need this. For what?

The break ups were becoming more and more frequent since June when I went to my granddaughter’s wedding in Costa Rica. He was pretty good with it, however he called incessantly and I ended up with a $400.00 cell phone bill that I negotiated down but still, he knew I was with my family and would ask questions in detail who was there, how many people showed up, what we were doing and the list went on and on. I should have shut my phone off and said the service was not good, but he would have went nuts when he could finally reach me. My daughters would say hang up on him, but I couldn’t. I must have been out of my mind. The June prior I went to my grandson’s high school graduation and it was the same thing ending up in yet another break up because he accused me of seeing an old boyfriend (which by the way I don’t have in NJ or anywhere). All part of the manipulation.

My mother broke her hip sometime in April and she was in rehab for three months. He would go religiously with me, was always showing concern for her and making sure we would pick up things for her to snack on and drink. He would always fill her cups with fresh water and a fresh drink and always tell her to eat all her food. He was so attentive until the day before she was to leave the facility when I stopped to get a massage on the way home from leaving my mother. Because you have to shut your cell phone off and he could not contact me, I was once again accused of doing something. He knew you could not have your phone on. What was one hour he insisted was three hours and broke up with me when I was relying on his help to bring her home and get her upstairs. I got help from my family so all was good.

He made up with me in perhaps a week and a half but it would not be for three months that I learned the true reason for the breakup and it was to take his ex-girlfriend to a wedding. He said only went to the wedding and it was not planned and nothing else happened. It was after this I realized if he did that, what else had he done in the past. So for the last two months it has been on and off. Now the switch is off and I pray the switch is broken so it never gets turned on again.

I share this information so others may know they are not nuts and we so many of us get taken in over and over until we say “when”.

Thank you for sharing. I am a few years out of entanglement with a psychopath. I relate to your experience, and particularly where you are now – the absolutely most difficult time when you are just beginning no contact on the path to break free.

Going through the break up/get back together cycle many times could be because he knows exactly how to manipulate you into that cycle. You might consider his part in controlling your participation in the cycle. You might also consider your view of both the negative and perceived positive aspects of continuing to relate to him. Maybe make a list of the pros and cons of continuing vs. ending the interactions. You might consider both yourself and your perception of his point of view. Consider that it is likely he has been manipulating your perception.

I am in my late 50’s. I continued interacting with my ex psychopath for a couple of years because I thought there was some value in his help around the house, etc. When I finally got free of him I experienced the following:

His ‘help’ was more trouble than it was worth. It is much easier to get anything and everything done by myself, with someone else’s help, or just pay a tradesman to do it. I get a lot more work done without the spath around so I earn more money.

I realized that my perception of my ex psychopath was skewed by his manipulation. I came to understand that many things he said and did which I’d taken at face value were actually manipulative tactics. I learned that he lied about a lot more than I realized. I concluded that I had no idea the extent of his lies and activities, due to his pathological lying.

Once the spath was gone, my time filled up with friends, family and activities. I took up Shape Note Singing and went back to clogging. I took some college classes and got a certificate in a subject I’m interested in. I am much more engaged in everything I do. I realized how much time and energy relating to the spath was taking from me. I realized I was much lonelier when the spath was around.

I’m not looking for a romantic relationship, but in my experience the best way to end up in a good relationship is to make yourself the best person you can be, and enjoy your life as it is. I can’t imagine trying to find a partner while trapped in a draining relationship with a spath.

I never thought I would be this happy and enthusiastic about my life. Getting rid of him had an overwhelmingly positive impact on my life, although it was a painful and stressful time getting free. It was a big loss to be grieved, as it is for you.

Annette:
I made a list of at 40 things I no longer have to contend with and the more I review the list the more I recognize how he was manipulating me with telephone calls and many other tactics.

Catnoch,

I had to respond because I couldn’t believe your story, it has so many similarities to mine!
First, I too have been taking care of my elderly mother. She too broke her hip and my “s-path” was right there being so incredibly attentive and sweet. One of my favorite photos of him is him sitting next to mom at her hospital bed with his hand gently laid on her forehead as she gazes at him, looking so grateful and he looking so concerned and loving!
I was accused of cheating every time I went to the grocery store too. I was always timed and could never get any of my errands done in the time he felt was appropriate, therefore I must have been f#*king one of the bag boys at Albertson’s!
Of course, he would disappear for DAYS and I was chastised and tortured over questioning him or mentioning that something was wrong with this behavior.
He broke up with me too once over my getting a massage because I turned my phone off as well for an hour so I must have been out throwing my body at another man!
One time I counted just how many nights he had stayed gone and cut off all contact and it was over 100 nights in a period of six months! Of course he to do this day claims he only stayed away because I told him to. Well, only AFTER he would stay put all night would I tell him not to come home, not before. Once he started using this as an excuse for staying gone, I made certain I never said it again. So then it became, “I didn’t come home because I suspected that you were going to get made and we would fight!” No, he didn’t come home because he was out tending to his other, multiple relationships!
I went and saw him in jail on Friday. He is now sober. (He’s also a meth addict and gambling addict. Just a great big winning ticket all around!). I wanted to see if it was the drugs causing his behavior or if he is indeed a sociopath. He is indeed a sociopath. I’m moving away. It will be the only way I will escape him. I hope he’s in jail for a long time. He’s in there for a crime unrelated to me, but I made sure that the DA also knew about the $14,000 worth of valuables he stole from me as well.
I have created a website that is just in its beginning design stages that is for women (and men) to be able to warn others about people like this, as well as just cheaters, abusers, etc. I will post its address as soon as it’s ready.
I’m a poet and am also publishing a collection of poetry about my experience. (From Theilled to Chilled: My Love Affair with a Sociopath.)
Here is my latest poem about him. I hope you like it. Sounds like you and I were walking parallel paths!
You can see more if my writing at http://www.fortisecreations.com

Love’s Possibility of Tomorrows

If only I could have understood,
The game we were destined to play,
Could have been privy to the dance steps,
Prior to the music beginning.

How helpful it would have been,
Prior to combining the ingredients:
You. Me. My Love. Your Intentions.
Before hastily mixing over high heat.

But you know me.
Not exactly the cautious type.
Boldly jumping in without checking
If the pond has any water.

So”when your sunshine scent,
Looping linguistics and
Effervescent elixir,
All wafted into my hungry senses”

I inhaled so deeply,
I hardly noticed the burn.
I gulped up the bait,
Until I was suffocating in the deceit.

I was hardly a worthy opponent.
I was already a fragile vessel.
There were surfaces on me
Worn thin from previous storms.

Deep cracks in my hull,
Tears in my sails’ fabric,
Over-extended, thread-barren,
A soul in need of resurfacing.

But I guess you did warn me,
You said you should have come,
With a warning label.
To be fair, I wouldn’t have read it.

“Warning. Proceed With Caution.”
“Not Suitable for Amateurs.”
“Debilitating Pain Likely.”
“Sociopath On Board.”

As it was, I found myself splintered,
Dangerously taking on water,
In the eye of a major hurricane.
Decidedly unseaworthy.

And finally, as they always do,
The shattering gale winds,
The relentless, pounding rain,
The deafening, crashing waves, settled.

And as I came to, hungrily gulping in,
Those first, new breaths, signs of life,
My will to survive surging through me,
I finally, carefully took inventory:

Two arms”attached”still able to,
One day embrace another.
Two legs”not yet stable”but still able to,
Carry me along another journey.

A soul”a bit wiser and still able to soar.
One heart”a bit bloody, but still beating,
With the rhythmic whisper of hope,
In Love’s possibility of tomorrows.

© 2016 Elisa Fortise Christensen

Beautiful poem portraying your experience with the spate. Thanks for the kind words.

I can relate to all, especially “looping linguistics” and “suffocating in the deceit.”

Amazing poem, thanks for sharing it. Really good reflection of the intensity of the spath experience. I love the expression of hope and strength in the aftermath.

Re number 1, I believe my ex psychopath verbally emphasized trust and honesty in a relationship to be sure I would be honest to him and also trust him.

Re number 7, when I confronted him with one or more of his lies, he often retorted, “Are you accusing me of lying?” changing the focus to my bringing up the lie and training me not to bring up his lies and other evil behaviors.

I have just found out that I was in a relationship with a spath. We were together for 1 1/2. Never in my life could i believe that this eould hallen to me. I thought i was smart enough to see it. He fits the checklist on almost everything. On our very first date he yalked about the importance of honesty and being faithful. He looked me straight in my face and said these things to me. I was so overwhelmed and we had such chemistry that i thought i had found “the one”. One our second date he asked me to move in with him. I was floored. There was no way i would fo this. Ictold him i won’t live with someone unless i am married to them. That must have been his key to making me believe anything he said. Within a month he was madly in love with me telling me that i was the first person he ever gave his heart to. (he was 40 yrs old and never married). I was over the moon. The love and affection didnt last long. He lived 1 1/2 hrs from me and would only talk to me by text unless he felt like it. This started a roller coaster ride for me. When i did see him he woyld be warm and loving and then an hour later he would change. He had suffered a brain injury (that i actually saw proof of) that affected him. He did not have any long term memory and he was seeing a dr to help him with that and other issues. He was on medication that was being changed all the time so i thought this was what was causing our issues. He had told me in the begging that once he left relationship he never came back. This was mot true with us. He wold get mad about stupid stuff and leave. Sometimes gone a week sometimes 3. But he always came back. Fast forward to a month ago he was coming to my house for the weekend and he just disappeared. Nothing. He blocked my number. The last time i heard from him was on November 4. I finally called on another phone the day after Thanksgiving and a woman answered his phone. She asked if he knew me saying my name. She gave him the phone and i asked him how long he had been seeing this other person. October 10. He had been texting and talking to me the whole time telling me how he loved me so very much. I am sure this new person has no idea about this. Akso she has mo idea that she is lucky #6 (that i know of) that he has seen in the last 2 years.i asked him if he ever loved me and he said no. I dont know if he said no because she was standing there or not….I’m devasted. How could someone tell you while looking at you that they loved you so much. Wanted to plan their life with you. I am old enough to know better but every time i tried to walk away he would suck me back in. Getting rid of this man from my heart and soul has been gut wrenching. I has made me physically ill. Some days i dont know how to get out of bed. And the crazy thing is i secretly want him to call me to tell that he really loved me…..ive read everything i can on spaths. This is one of the hardest things i have ever done. Any advise would be helpful

Hi mzpris15, glad you found your way to Donna Anderson’s wonderful site (Lovefraud). This site is a true blessing to navigate thru all of the chaos you are enduring from this crazy sociopath in your life.

First, I want to recommend that you do NOT contact anyone here on this site via an email address unless it is passed along via Donna herself. This is the best way to stay safe since you are in a vulnerable state right now.

Second, I want to recommend that you read everything on this site starting at the very top of this site. Each tab has valuable information & is a library full of info.

On the top of Lovefraud to the right you can do searches on subject matters…for starters look at these items below (also google):

Gas lighting abuse

No Contact rule

Sociopath no contact rule

gray rock

sociopath Triangulation

Sociopath smear campaign

sociopath addiction

pathological liar

This sociopath literally created an addiction in you…with his words & his touching…just like a drug, food or alcohol addiction. How do you stop…this is not easy but for me the more I read when I was crying, mad, angry or did not want to get out of bed the more it opened up my mind to the fact I was literally married to the devil himself.

Your ex also used mind control, hypnosis and trance to control your mind so know you need to unravel all this brain washing!! SCARY what they are truly capable of!!!!

One way to change how you feel about him is to picture his face next to someone like Charles manson or an other evil person as they are the same type person.

Every time this man got in a fight with you “over stupid stuff” know that it was his plan all along so that he could go to other women he had on the hook homes. This is what they do!!

When I told my counselor after leaving my ex h that I thought he cheated on me 8-12 she said it was more like 3 or 4 times that amount as this is what sociopath do…they are serial cheaters and have many many women on the hook…some long term some short term which they will return to years later. He has you hooked into his game.

How do you escape his hooks?

YOU FOLLOW THE NO CONTACT RULE STARTING TODAY!!!

What does the no contact rule mean?

BLOCK him from everything in your life!!!

Block him from social media asap!!

Change your phone number & only give it to your most trusted family & friends.

If he sends you something in the mail send it back without opening it by writing “Return to sender” and give it to the mail man without an additional postage required.

Call the police if he shows up at your door…under NO circumstance to you open your door to him!! He will just suck you back into his game with nothing but lies!!

MOST if not all victims of a sociopath suffer from anxiety & depression…aka PTSD. Get tested for vitamin & mineral deficiency, cortisol levels, hormonal imbalance as they are all issues of stress from a sociopath. Look up adrenal fatigue symptoms. See sites like DrLam. com & Adrenal fatigue. org.

Symptoms of adrenal fatigue = racing mind, anxiety, panic attacks, depression, mood swings, sleep issues etc etc the list is long.

On one site the site creater ask if anyone on the site has heal issue during their narcissistic/socipath relationship…over 400 victims said YES…and lister their symptoms which most were identical.

Get a piece of paper out and list all the mean, abusive, controlling, manipulative things this evil man did to you…and when you have those feeling of him calling you…read the list asap!!

You have to retrain your brain that he is NO good & evil and will bring nothing but heartache and disfunction to your life.

I promise you that you will get to the point that if you think about him it will make you not want to see him. It takes time but you will get to this point.

BE CONSCIENCELY AWARE OF YOUR EMOTIONS regarding him. Let out the tears, anger (not at anyone thou) and any other emotion.

Get into counseling with a extremely knowledgable counselor who knows about narcissist & sociopath abuse…MOST DO NOT KNOW about this kind of abuse!! SO interview them by phone.

Keep reading everything about sociopath…especially when you are sad, angry, mad or cant get out of bed…this will remind you of how evil he really is and that you deserve better but most importantly it will open your mind up from his brain washing.!!!

Donna Anderson has a phone coaching program that you can talk with her on the phone for a minimum fee just go to the top and look under the tab “Contact”

I’m truly sorry that you had a relationship with this crazy sociopath. It’s a heartache but you are strong and you will get thru this nightmare. I know it is hard to find out that your ex has 6 women on the side but it’s part of your closure on this man! SLAM THE DOOR SHUT FOREVER!!

If you are looking for closure, your closure is you found out he is a sociopath!

Wishing you all the best. Keep posting it’s part of the healing process.

Take care.

Mzpris15, this is from another site but it is an excellent article regarding the No contact rule & why to impose it. Please NEVER tell this guy what you have learned about him (being a sociopath) for your safety.

“Why Initiate a”No Contact” Rule When Leaving a Narcissistic Relationship

breakingfreeofchainsNo contact is initiated as a way of breaking the psychic emotional bonds between you and a narcissistic partner, friend or family member. If you have been involved with a narcissistic person for any length of time you will undoubtedly have a strong attachment to that person. This attachment needs to be weakened which will happen much more quickly once you engage the rules of “no contact.”

I am referring to the rules of “no contact” as RULES but these are only enforced by you. These are your rules! If you break these rules you are the one who pays the consequences. And”there are most definitely consequences that come in the form of emotional pain and re-attachment.

No contact gives you the space and time to get your energy back into your life. It can be challenging at first as you may have to resist the urge to answer the phone, return an Email or make that call. You must get into the habit of policing yourself for your own good.

Imagine that you have two different aspects of yourself; a parent self and a child self. The parent self will have to police the child self to be sure she doesn’t do anything that will hurt her. You know intellectually that breaking the rules of “no contact” will hurt that child, so you stop her from doing so, even though she is throwing a tantrum.

Making a decision to cut off contact with a narcissistic personality when leaving the relationship is an important part of your recovery process. The decision to initiate “NO Contact” is a decision for your health and sanity.

When you remain in contact you continue to engage in the relationship on some level and are still affected by its craziness and dysfunction. You will normally continue to be affected by the hot and cold behavior of the narcissist, be pulled in and pushed away, confused and hurt. You will continue to be drained energetically which results in depression and lethargy.

The best remedy for getting yourself back is to stop giving your energy to the relationship in any way. You can only dry off when you take your feet out of the water. Don’t allow the narcissist access to you and your energy!

Of course there are cases where ’no contact” is not possible due to the involvement of children or when the narcissistic personality is a direct family member. However even in these cases contact can be greatly limited and sometimes all contact can be through a third party mediator. See my article “When No Contact Can’t Work” for more info.

Here are the rules of No Contact:

1) Once you have made the decision to end the relationship get your business taken care of immediately, if possible. If you are married and going through a divorce you will need to initiate the divorce right away or make the decision to put it on hold for six months to a year while you take care of yourself and your family. During that time you can initiate “no contact” and then initiate the divorce paperwork, through an attorney when you are stronger. Let the narcissist in your life know that you are ending the relationship and won’t be in communication with him for a while. Ask him to please refrain from calling, text messaging, emailing, instant chat or stopping by your home or workplace.

2) Taking care of business involves getting your possessions, giving him his possessions. Getting separate living quarters, separating bills and anything that would give you a reason to contact him or for him to contact you. If necessary use a third party mediator.

3) Clean out your home and get rid of any memorabilia having to do with your ex-narcissistic partner. If you are having issues throwing something away or burning it, put it in a big box, tape it up and store it somewhere where you won’t see it. If you are comfortable burning sage or incense this can help clear the energy of your home. Also burning candles is a good way to shift the energy.

4) Make no arrangements for personal meetings. If he stops by, don’t answer the door. If you see him in public, put your sunglasses on, avoid eye contact and move past him as quickly as possible.

5) Make or accept no phone calls. If he calls, don’t answer the phone. If he calls from an unidentified number and you hear his voice on the other end, hang up without saying a word. He’ll get the message. If he leaves a voice mail message try and erase it without listening if you can. If he is persistent, consider having your phone number changed. This is your sanity we are talking about. It is priceless.

6) Make or accept no text messages, emails, or instant chat. It is best to block his emails and even consider having your own email address changed so he won’t have your information. This prevents him emailing you from an unknown address.

7) If you are on any mutual community Websites, you will want to stop visiting those sites. Do not access his Web pages, profiles, social media, or anything that will give you current info on him. What he is doing is none of your business. What you are doing is none of his.

8) If you have friends in common, you will want to let them know that you are avoiding any and all contact with him at this time so you can focus on your healing and you request that they NOT share any information about him with you nor any information about you with him. If you find mutual friends do not support your request you will want to avoid contact with them for a time. Do not allow anyone to tell you that what you are doing is crazy, silly, stupid, childish or invalidate your decision in any way. This is a time to surround yourself with people who support you and let go of people who don’t.

9) If you work with him, in the same office building, same company, etc.. Same rules apply. If you are forced to do business with him, keep all communication strictly business and don’t allow him to engage you in any other way. Remember: He no longer has access to you or your energy.

10) If you have children with him you are best to engage a mediator for all contact. Narcissistic people will often use the children as a way to get to you. You may consider asking a family member or good friend to act as the mediator for young children. If your kids are old enough to handle their own business, let them work out the details of any visits directly with the other parent and communicate with you to be sure you approve. Be careful not to use your children to punish the narcissistic parent. The kids will be the ones being affected. In some cases when the narcissistic parent realizes he has no control over you and using the kids doesn’t work, he may bow out altogether and you may rarely hear from him. So it is important that you don’t allow him access to you, even if you have kids. Keep it strictly business.

How Long Must No Contact Last?

No contact should remain in affect until you feel the bond has been completely severed. This can take several years so be prepared to continue “no contact” for a long time. Most will find once that bond is severed there is no need or desire to see that person, but the rules can soften a bit at this point so if you run into him on the street you may say “hello” and be kind, but not engage in any “real” conversation. If you have kids together you may be able to communicate directly at some point in the future, although there is absolutely no guarantee this will work well.

Once you have moved on, down the road, you will want to be careful not to make the mistake of believing maybe he/she has changed. The likelihood of any real change is very small. Always assume he or she is the same person as always. Even if change was possible, your trust in the narcissist has already been severely damaged and you would never likely be fully trusting again. This is no way to have a relationship. You deserve to have someone you can trust completely in your life.

If you need help sticking to No Contact, consider getting counseling or joining a support forum.”

Mzpris15, one last thing. The most dangerous time of for a woman leaving a abuisve relationship is when she is either planning to leave or has just left. So please contact your countries National domestic violence hotline to talk with a free counselors & get the number for your local abuse center where you can go for free counseling & free women group meetings. In the USA 800-799-SAFE…also see their website.

(YES you were in a mentally, emotional & verbally abusive relationship! (verbally does not have to mean yelling but it is manipulation, cunningness etc). The bulk of domestic abuse is not physical abuse but is actually emotional, mental, verbal & financial abuse.

Cheating = emotional & mental abuse

Lying = emotional, mental & verbal abuse

Manipulation = emotional, mental & verbal abuse

Gas lighting abuse = emotional, mental & verbal abuse

DID you know you were in a abusive relationship with this guy?

Thank y’all for for your comments and suggestions. I have never met anyone in my life like this person. He is a master manipulater. I have been told I see the good in people when others don’t. I always forgive too many times. I guess that is one of the reasons he was able to control me so well. I feel like I was hypnotized. This has been a slow healing. Pain everyday. I am so grateful that I found out that I am not crazy. Thank you.

mzpris15, out of all of the hell you endured hon please know this for certain…

You are NOT crazy!!

But he is crazy!!!

Now that you know this fact, keep him out of your life forever!!!

Sociopaths target everyone from the second they meet us. They attempt to snake into everyones life…why? because they want what you have…they want everything that you have including your goodness & kindness.

Accourding to Steven Hassan cult expert and author of Freedom of mind…anyone & everyone can be sucked into a destructive cult like relationship…ie domestic abusive relationship or a gang, drug cartel, cult, sex trafficking environment etc. These are all the same evil people that do these evil things!!

In Steven Hassan’s book Freedom of mind (do a search on Lovefraud top right for more info) he states that the most likely time that someone will end up in a cult or domestic abusive relationship is when the person just experienced a life change such as:

divorce, death in the family, change in school, new job, move to a new city etc.

Why this time? because your guard is down and these evil people can spot someone in a vulnerable state from a mile a way….like a shark in the ocean can smell blood these sociopath do the same.

It is estimated that 1 in 25 people are sociopaths & psychopaths on this plant!!! YES 1 in 25 people mainly men!!! SO INCREDIBLY SCARY!! They are every where blending in as rich, poor, blue or white collard workers…from school teachers, to CEO’s.

1 in 5 people (75% men) have narcissistic personality disorder. Throw in all the other personality disorders you MUST be on guard in this dangerous world!!

Add these two categories together & 6 in 25 people fall into the abuser category!!

Every class room you sat in had 6 abusers in it. Every time you go to a party statistically there are sociopaths in the room!!!

On you tube you can listen to the audio version of The sociopath next door by Harvard Professor Dr Martha Stout (just beware that it may trigger you so if it’s too much dont listen to it now maybe down the road at another time).

Sociopaths use mind control just like a cult leader does…brain washing, trance, hypnosis, gas lighting abuse, reward & punishment, install fear & phobias into their target victims love bombing (google & do a search on love fraud for this term) minds, pathological lying, manipulation the list goes on & on…it’s all psychology text book behavior…and the crazy part is they all seem to do the basic same things to control their victims.

It’s such a CRAZY world we live in!!! Experts believe that we have a sociopath in our circle of friends & family so look out for them too!! or at the work place!!

I know that your body & mind are working thru all of your pain…it’s interesting how the body & mind releases this type trauma…it’s scary to feel all of the emotions that are percolating up now…but let them out of your body its part of the healing process. Counseling helps & so does writing in a journal & asking questions here at love fraud or just venting here when you feel your emotional pain. Dont hold in your emotions. Donna Anderson has written on this subject so you can do a search on this subject too.

WE HEAR YOU, WE BELIEVE YOU & WE ARE HERE FOR YOU!! â¤ï¸

Thank you Jan7. My head knows how horrible this person is. My heart still says. Is he really that bad??Could I have been so deeply in love with a monster and not know it??? Now i read everything that I can on this subject….But i am still hurt. Why does he just get to leave me as if i was nothing, walk away to someone else that he is spending the holidays with and he tells me he never loved me and all im left with is trying to pick up the pieces of my life and he doesn’t even give me a second thought.

Your welcome mzpris15!

It takes time for your mind to realize that YES he was evil!!

Be patient with yourself…your mind & body will sort out everything.

Make a list of the mean, manipulative, cunning, lying, abusive things he has done to you. If you want to post them here for others to comment on you can do that. it really does help to realize that he was abusing you.

You are a good person so you naturally want to see the good in others. But the reality is on this planet there are pure evil people who want to destroy good people. This is reality. We see it in the news but never had a name to go with that person…we would just say to ourselves “who does that?!?!” now we know who does these evil acts against others = sociopaths & psychopath & narcissist!!!

Chances are you saw RED FLAGS with this guy the second you met him! But like all of us we either ignored the red flags they were giving off and/or we chose to be polite and not call them out on their bad behavior in the beginning.

We are taught to “get along with others”….this works great with good people but when dealing with a sociopath, they will use this as a manipulation tactic.

DID you see RED FLAGS with him the second you met him and after??

Ask this question everyday & write all your answers down on a piece of paper…you will see that you ignored a lot and he was also spinning your head away from what you were seeing.

Remember the old saying “actions speak louder then words”? well his actions did not match his words did they??

My ex h was masterful at spinning my head away from my gut reaction… he’s is a master manipulator with EVERYONE!! But everyone including my self did not know how to call hm out because it was all so crazy & not normal we honestly did not know how to react. We were in shock then he would use his words to divert our attention or use gas lighting abuse to make us believe what we saw was no the truth that his words were the truth.

He leaves because he has a new target that excites him but guess what she too will be treated the same EXACT way you were treated once he has her looked he will break her down emotionally & mentally. They do the same pattern with every vicim because it works every time.

His brain literally does not work in the emotional region…so him walking away is nothing to him because he feels nothing for ANYONE. No true feelings for his family , friend, girlfriend, pets etc.

Sociopaths brains are literally wired differently this is actually true scientific studies.

His true purpose is to have POWER & CONTROL over everyone!!

POWER & CONTROL IS WHAT ALL SOCIOPATHS WANT!!

They also want to emotionally & mentally break their victims down.

WHY?

To have full control over the victim = power to them!

I know hon it hurts like hell…HUGS TO YOU 🙁

But I can tell you the best thing I ever did after 12 years of marriage (and hating every second of it & not wanting to date him, live with him or marry him) was packing my car & getting the hell away from him!!

Once I was told by my counselor that I was married to a sociopath…that was it…I was DONE with my marriage. I had the answer to my prays…my marriage would never work out because he was pure pure evil.

It’s not easy to see this truth. But the more you read especially when you are sad, angry, crying, cant get out of bed the more you open up your mind to the truth and the “TRUTH WILL SET YOU FREE”!!! (old saying is true!!

On my darkest nights I would wake up crying in my sleep (crazy) I would get out of bed and look at LOvefraud & read. It helped to settle my mind & wake me up to the reality…that yes…I was marriage to a “really bad guy.

Yes, your guy is that BAD. How do I know this? Because you went on line & researched his traits this lead you to love fraud.

If you want to share some of your story please feel free. Everyone does. But if you are not ready then you dont have to. For me once I did others posted their stories that were similar to mind and things started to really connect the dots for me. What I learned is these sociopaths do the same thing…so crazy…like evil robots. Yes some of the stories are so incredibly heart wrenching and way beyond anything I could every imagine.

PLEASE BEWARE…socioapths leave the door open to return. The fact that he broke you down was intentional…YES…he did this to keep the door open.

IF he left you strong you would move on to someone else…but with you broken down he can come back in your life to destroy you more & use you. This is what sociopaths do!!

They never fully close the door. They want a back up plan incase their current supply see their mask drop & kicks him out of their life.

This is why it is important right now to education yourself on his sociopathic tactics and open your mind to the truth:

HE IS PURE EVIL & WILL ONLY BREAK YOU DOWN FURTHER if you let him back in your life.

Your local abuse center has free counseling & free women group meeting that will help you. Dont be embarrassed or ashamed to go. DO THIS FOR YOU!! It really is a life saver.

Google:

Domestic abuse POWER & CONTROL WHEEL….read up on how he was intently creating a emotional & mental roller coaster ride for you.

HUGE HUGS TO YOU TONIGHT. 💜💜💜

Take care.

mzpris15, google “Oprah Gavin debecker you tube” to watch their interview on listening to your gut.

What did your gut say to you the second you meet your ex & throughout your relationshiop with him?

My first reaction to my ex was “he was a tornado” second time I meet him “he was crazy not in a good way either”…throughout the marriage I would tell myself “I need to get away from him”. These were my RED FLAGS I ignored!

What where your RED FLAGS & the red flags with his behavior??

You saw the truth from day one about him…open your mind up again & think about the RED FLAGS he gave off & your gut gave off.

Book to read: Gift of Fear by Gavin Debecker (your local library may have it USA)

All I can say is Wow to your post! I am getting through the very last break up because of love of family and friends. If not for them sticking by me I may have gone completely out of my mind. There were times I thought I would die of a heart attack or a stroke because of how he would unnerve me with his antics. There were times I would look at him and believe he was the devil himself.

I have one loose end in this relationship and it is his daughter in law. She began to cry when I told her that I probably needed to break away from her as well. I have bought her children Christmas gifts and I struggle now whether or not to give them or return them. This family has gained a lot from me already. I believe she is the master manipulator as she has been in the mix of it all. She got insulted when I told her that I at times thought she was a liar. I know she was playing me. I explained to her that her mother in law was also not a very good person. She argued if I knew her I would know she was a good person. I told her she is the grandmother to your children and she lived with them for seven years so of course she thinks she is a good person.

This woman allows her husband to sleep with another woman (there have been numerous I learned) in 15 years since they have come here from Bosnia. They are here because of political asylum and fear for their lives because I learned (another lie) that he was muslim. He is not practicing muslim. the mother of his children was Catholic and so the children were considered Catholic so after living common law 25 years they married and fled. When he said he was in the war in Bosnia and knowing the history I was totally confused because the Christians were effecting the genocide against the Muslims. This is where he is so stupid I suppose he did not realize I might figure that one out. I asked him many times what side was he fighting on? Finally he said Muslim. I said I thought you said you were Catholic? No answer.

Although he has left messages in the blocked area of my phone I listened to them. Again he wants to blame me for the break up, when in fact it was I who blocked him. Then he left a series of directives because I sent his wife a picture of me and my daughter and said this is just one of my daughters and I have two more beautiful daughters along with seven grandchildren. I have a family and what you allowed your husband to do for the many years you are here makes you just as evil as him. I told her she is probably the mastermind behind it all. I had to get my last dig in. It was for my own therapy. Then I text his ex, who it appears she wants him back as they were together for 7 years, information on sociopathic behavior and try to knock some sense into that woman. I don’t care if he goes back with any of them but this woman looks like she has been rung out and left to dry. The messages she left me are so pathetic and I wish someone gets to her. I said show my messages to someone who loves you and they will tell you the truth about this man and perhaps you can spare yourself more heartache. Again, the social worker in me trying to do good even though this woman has said some horrible things about me.

The daughter in law called me yesterday. She spoke of him and the family and I told her I was not interested in hearing anything about them, nor do I ever want to speak of them. She said, “I know you still love him” and I said, sorry I do not and after the con he tried to pull on me two weeks ago, my eyes are wide open. I said I have been in touch with professionals and they are going to help me get through this. The money I exhausted will be reclaimed just by me having nothing to do with him. It seems the conversation was no longer exciting for her with the exception that I told her the messages I left him because I knew he had just started work and could not answer. I knew I could get my last words in as he had called me at 6:05 am with all his directives about leaving his wife alone, his family and he ex. I left a series of messages saying if you don’t want me to bother your wife, family or ex-girlfriend then stop calling. if you call me one more time, I will record it and play it for each of them. I told him to go to hell and drop dead, something I hate to say to anyone. But this I pray is the last time I hear from him.

He has done some really despicable things in the last two months I have learned. I cannot go to certain places with my friends because I am so ashamed I was ever with him and what a fool I looked like. I told him if he ever comes near me again I will call the police and say he threatened my life. I know he is afraid of the law so I feel secure he won’t pull the crap he has in the past. There is one place my friends and I go to that the manager told me if he ever comes in he will escort him out and tell him to stay out. I also believe he knows I mean business this time.

I will give it a week and if I don’t get anymore calls I will keep my phone numbers the way they are. If not I will change them both.

I believe I am on the road to recovery. I feel weak and drained, but I know this too will pass. It has been a rough last few weeks. Taking care of my Mother is draining in itself.

This site has saved me in many ways and I am so grateful to you all for sharing your stories and helping me to know I am not crazy.

Happy Holidays!

It sounds like if you are going to be successful in maintaining no contact with the spath and his disordered family members, it would be best not to send the gifts. You might consider what the consequences might be if you give the gifts vs. if you don’t give them.

It sounds like you have a plan to make no contact work; and that you are doing a good job taking care of yourself.

I keep coming back here because i can’t talk to anyone that i know about this. 😞 I hear why aren’t you over this jerk again then i don’t know what I’m going to do… I’ve been thinking and thinking about what made him laser un in me in the beginning. As i look back it was 10 years since my daughter had been killed in a car accident. That’s what made me a good mark….I should of known he was a person without empathy or a soul when he never said one thing about it. Nothing. No questions just acted like it didn’t happen even though u mentioned it and it upset me…The prior boyfriend he was so compassionate. He sent flowers to her grave. He bought me a bracelet with her name on it, it was Hope and he even found a couple of things when he went out of town that i had mentioned in passing that I wanted to make sure i was happy….how can I be jealous if this new person he’s with??? I know they are going to spend Christmas together and what an I gping to do??? I am going to work!!!! Why be off with no one to spend it with??? Why do I feel this way??? I got a promotion yesterday out of the blue with a big raise and i don’t even care. I don’t have anyone to share this with….he didn’t love me but i didntbknow this…we shared everything. Everything. Now no one to call…je was so good at making me believe him. My world is just spinning. Now I just dont know who to turn to and I just can’t find my way and i cant stop crying…😞😞

If it makes you feel better, I made numerous attempts to ignore this crazy man. He always wangled his way back in. I have him blocked on my home phone and cell phone. The cell phone has a flaw, the voicemails go into a blocked region of the phone. Therefore I can listen or not. Well I listened and let him push my button to call him. This time I used his own tact against him. I would not let him get a word in and his temper was beginning rise. I am still in contact with his daughter in law so I know each lie he is pulling. Without going into detail, he is nothing but a real disgusting human being. He has left messages saying his is going to be true to his wife and Saturday he was out on the prowl. However, he watched me like a hawk and I never looked at him or spoke with him.

He left a series of disgusting messages charging me with just about every disgusting thing a person could do. If I did all he said, I wouldn’t have time for anything else. I know I should just delete them but curiosity gets the “CAT” I listened and the last one struck a nerve. I figure he would be working and would not answer the phone. He did and I explained to him instead of saying all the nasty crap he does about me not only to me but his daughter in law, he should be grateful for living off me for two years, getting him a car (that he stuck me with for payment) and the list goes on. I further reminded him I have a huge job with my mother and he should at least have some understanding. He then turned the conversation toward my mother.

Finally he said he knows I still love him. I said I assure you I have no feelings for you and let us just end this in a nice way. He said he loved me and I said that’s nice good by. He then called at 3:45pm up until 10:00pm and the messages started out nice but then he began again with I am a liar and a few other things. I know I should have just deleted, but I save them for my friends listening enjoyment.

I learned today that his ex before me is busy New Year’s and his wife is working so he is going to be alone. He told his daughter in law he would get back in my good graces and get me to take him out and then break up with me again. Do you see how crazy this man is. He was gas lighting me the entire time we were together and I have so much pressure taking care of my mother that I was losing my mind. He would call all day long and accuse me of all sorts of things. When my friends were on the phone I had to cut them off to talk to him because I was afraid I was going to have to explain what I was doing and most my friends he had a problem with so he would go nuts and fight with me. He had me under some sort of spell. Never in my life have I ever let anyone rule me.

Intellectually, this man doesn’t even reach me by one quarter so how do you think I feel that I allowed this man to use me the way he did. He never had any money in his pocket. How convenient. and no shame letting me pick up the bill and then asking me for money and this fool would give it to him. I felt like I had a child to support and the sad thing was I couldn’t even claim him. I bought him just about everything he needed to look attractive. I fought with him a year ago last August and packed everything up and left it at his house. Now I have another batch of clothes and I am torn with what to do with them. I was going to give them to him but he is not deserving and why should I make him look better for someone else.

I know he loves getting a rise out of me and so he thought he would push me to call him again. I will not.

You will cry but look at all the reasons why you are better off without him. He is not going to make you happy, you are. Remember we have the power to make ourselves happy. Love hath no fury than a woman scorned but we need to be strong. I lost it too many times and this idiot was enjoying it.

Keep strong it gets better.

Big hugs!

Catnoch,

Your experience is similar to mine – I came to see that I could not interact with my ex psychopath without him pushing my buttons, and I came to see that he enjoyed whatever reaction I gave him. The way to really win is to have no contact with them whatsoever. Thank you for going to the trouble to share the details of your experience.

It sounds like your friends date a lot and attach importance to having a partner. You might consider whether you feel that way too, or not. Dating takes time and energy, which you might prefer to spend on taking care of your mom and other activities you’re interested in. In my experience meaningful relationships happen more often and are better when one isn’t looking just to find a partner. Consider spending time interacting with your friends and family, in spiritual practices such as church communities, volunteering, activities you are interested in, or taking educational classes. I find these activities rewarding in many ways, and the relationships I forge are meaningful, whether friendships or dating.

Spaths enjoy pushing their victims’ buttons and eliciting emotions. Since you have shown emotions in the process of trying to get rid of him, he is likely to keep trying to contact you because it’s a game to him. He likely gets more satisfaction from negative emotion (go to hell/drop dead) than he does from positive/happy emotions. If he does succeed in contacting you, consider trying not to show any emotion. Act bored, say very little, no matter what he does to try to push your buttons. He is more likely to leave you alone if you don’t give him any of the feedback he wants.

I know too well he gets a charge from getting me excited and upset and this is why I did it in voice mail rather than speaking because he is so clever he talks over you like you are not even talking. It is the most uncanny thing I have ever encountered.

I cannot have contact or ever see him again. I absolutely despise him and think in time he will realize it.

Happy Holidays!

Thanks for reaching out to me. I know too well his games and I intend to beat him at his for my own satisfaction. He supposedly is trying to get back with is old girlfriend of 7 years. This poor soul doesn’t get it. I sent her so much material to read and it did no good. What worked was photographing his phone calls to me. at least 30 in the last few days. She has now blocked him. For how long who knows. But he is so pissed at me. He insists I will take him back. What a cracked pot.

Catnoch,

Consider that for no contact to fully benefit you, avoiding contact with everything pertaining to him and everyone associated with him. As long as your time, thoughts, actions and other resources are consumed by stuff pertaining to him, he is winning. In my experience the greyrock technique http://www.lovefraud.com/2012/02/10/the-gray-rock-method-of-dealing-with-psychopaths/ and no contact, including no contact with him on FB, https://selfcarehaven.wordpress.com/2014/05/30/the-smart-girls-guide-to-no-contact-and-detaching-from-toxic-relationships/are the only things that ultimately work in the long run.

Jan7
You are so right about this man. I should have listened to my gut on our second date, I was no match for someone like him. He is a pro at this. I remember telling my best friend that he is the devil wrapped up in this beautiful package. That is probably what got me. How could someone some gorgeous be so evil. He wolud compliant me and tell how beautiful ans sexy and amazing i was. It’s not that i have low self esteem on how i look. He wasn’t more attractive than me but I am 10 years older than him and it had been so long since someone loved me that much. I knew he was a bad person and i tried to walk away so many times but he wouldnt let me…we had been talking about getting married (or more so he had) because i wouldn’t live with him if i wasn’t married. He asked me several times and i always said no. We went to dinner one night and he asked me if i saw the jewelry bag on the floor by my stuff when i came in. I said no. We’ll look at it when we get home. We go home he gave me the bag and went into the kitchen. There was a ring box inside. When i took it out all i could think was please dont be an engagement ring…..it took me forever to open that box. He kept saying did you open it….I was thinking how do I say no….I should have left then but he just drawing me back in…..I feel so stupid for not leaving…I knew it he was evil and bad…I always follow my gut. A grown, college educated woman…At least I don’t have to worry about the no contact rule. He blocked my number so i doubt I will ever hear from him again…..thank you for letting me talk this out

mzpris15, my ex h did the same. Right from the get go he pushed my boundaries…it was uncomfortable but I had never experienced that with anyone & I was the type to avoid arguments.

I had zero interested in him…he called my house phone 8 times a day leaving messages even thought I was at work. When I got home I ignored all his calls & thought it was weird…thinking why would someone leave so many messages. But this is how they get their foot in the door (love bombing). Endless calls & showing up at my door with out letting me know.

He mad me uncomfortable. He was a friend of a friend. So I didnt want to be rude. UHHH if I could go back in time 🙂 wishful thinking. Anyway. We all see the RED FLAGS with them. But we are taught from little kids to be “nice” “play nice”. NEVER AGAIN.

I read a study that within 3 seconds humans can determine if someone is trustworthy or not. 3 seconds!! This is our gut reaction immediately knowing the truth.

My ex h’s friends were all getting married. I had no interested in marrying him or even dating him. But again he was masterful at manipulating me & everyone. He pushed me to dating him, to moving in with him…like you it was against my principles but he aways got his way with pity me manipulation. When his friends were getting engaged I ignored his talks about “marriage” literally ignored them. Then he got his friends to talk to me about it…how crazy is that. Then he asked me at a party with all his friends around. I was literally in shock & did not know what to say. I did not tell him anything. I was embarrassed. GUT alarm going off!!

He had no ring nothing was planned…like everything he did it was all just a con game to him. Suck in his friends & me.

When I told him that I did not want to get married for at least two years he said he wanted to get married that summer (6 months away) I said no…guess what he manipulated me once again. Even when planning things out he got his way with everything except my dress. At the wedding I was just numb. The first red flag that he was cheating on me was just before our wedding and he invited the girl to our wedding.

The only thing I can tell you is I WASTED over 12 years….and it was an absolute nightmare hellish 12 years…gas lighting, mind games, all kinds of abuse, dealing with cheating, his lying, his manipulation etc etc. And the divorce the bottom of hell…thats when you see every evil thing that the are truly capable of. I literally saw him trance or hypnosis people in the court….but only after asking my counselor if he was hypnotizing me and reading the book my counselor gave me called “Women who love psychopath” by Sandra Brown did I conned the dots in detail of what he was doing.

That’s when you truly have a awaking to the fact they are PURE EVIL and like you stated :

“he is the devil wrapped up in this beautiful package”

(although was never attacked to my ex)

I too followed my gut…and this time I let it down…like I stated before Steven Hassan domestic abuse & cult expert states in his book Freedom of mind…that ANYONE & EVERYONE can be sucked into a abusive relationship if they had some type of life change…ie divorce, relationship breakup, move, new job, change in schools, empty nest etc etc.

Did you have a life change during the time you met him?

for me I had just moved 1000 miles away from my home for a new job. I was lonely just wanted friends, wasn’t looking to date. Like you college educated.

YES YOU NEED TO WORRY THAT HE WILL CONTACT YOU AGAIN!! Sociopaths always always boomerang back into a past target’s life when their current supply sees their mask drop and they see the truth that they too are dealing with the devil.

SO TAKE THIS TIME TO REALLY EDUCATE YOURSELF & IMPOSE THE NO CONTACT RULE (google) ON HIM RIGHT NOW!!!

Slam the door on him now.!!!

Your welcome. I too have been exactly where you are now…confused, mentally exhausted, physically exhausted, emotional over load etc. And so many people lifted me up & let me vent & ask question.

One thing I aways say is” All of these sociopath never counted on all of the victims getting together & lifting each other up!!

Take care 💜

Jan7
You are right about the red flags. They were popping up everywhere. Most people probably don’t know where the term “Red Flag” comes from and what it really means. I come from a beach community and they fly flags letting you know if it’s safe to get in the water. A red flag means,stay out of the water. It is very dangerous because of the undertow. Now for those who don’t know what an undertow is, it’s where the sand drags you out into the water extremely quickly. You don’t have time to swim to shore. It will take you so far and so fast there is little catch that you will not drown. I have been watching the videos that Jan7 recommend about your gut feeling that something is wrong….I don’t know why i ignored mine….

My mind knows what an Evil person he his. I know he will do this again. He will never contact me again he blocked my number do the no contact is easy to apply. I still cant wrap my head around this person being this way…..I asked one of my male friends why would he do something like this and he said “I dont know, I not wired that way” I went shopping today and for some reason when i walked by the mens

Part 2
Section of the store I burst into tears. I had to leave….I stopped to get gas and i was still crying and a lady stopped and asked me if i was ok…..What is wrong with me??Why would i want someone that said they never ever loved me the entire time we were together?????Am I CRAZY??? How can I get away from these awful feelings????? Anybody

My poor dear…it is the human in you. He does not have that trait.

There is a term for why we keep om wondering why…or how could he…

It is called cognitive dissonance. Please google it and read it. It will help you to understand why you feel the way that you do.

It is entirely normal and something that we all go through. It sucks big time, but perhaps it is a necessary step in our getting ourselves back?

mzpris15…good analogy of the ocean Red Flags! You are a smart woman for connecting these dots!!

Bev is correct do a search on love fraud up at the top right on CD and also google. Donna Anderson site creator of love fraud just posted an article on this subject this week but there are more on this extremely important topic. I posted a post to you on this article for you to read so it will be at the top of the “forum”.

Hang in there!!

You are in mourning. I was mourning my husband’s death when I began with my sp and he had me right where he wanted me. Weak and vulnerable. I fell for it all, hook, line and sinker.

Give yourself time to heal. The wounds are wide open and each day they close up. I could not talk to people without crying when my husband died and when I had many break up with my sp I would burst into tears. The feeling of remorse and loss is natural. We gave our all to that person all the while they were taking and taking. For many of us it was our sanity and with each day that passes we must remind ourselves we are getting stronger, wiser and ready to be the person we once were. Little by little it begins to fade. Even their faces begin to fade. Hang in there little one it will get better. I am about to go shopping and I am thrilled I am not going to buy that creep one more thing.

Smile! It makes you feel better. Each time you begin to get low, smile and say “I am free” and keep smiling and be proud of yourself.

Your feelings are 100% normal. You are grieving a real loss to you. You were betrayed into believing that he was a good person and you probably hoped that he would eventually care about you. You are capable of love and you bonded with him. For most women, engaging in a physical relationship creates a very strong physiological bond.

I keep coming back here because i can’t talk to anyone that i know about this. If I hear why aren’t you over this jerk again then i don’t know what I’m going to do… I’ve been thinking and thinking about what made him laser un in me in the beginning. As i look back it was 10 years since my daughter had been killed in a car accident. That’s what made me a good mark….I should of known he was a person without empathy or a soul when he never said one thing about it. Nothing. No questions just acted like it didn’t happen even though u mentioned it and it upset me…The prior boyfriend he was so compassionate. He sent flowers to her grave. He bought me a bracelet with her name on it, it was Hope and he even found a couple of things when he went out of town that i had mentioned in passing that I wanted to make sure i was happy….how can I be jealous if this new person he’s with??? I know they are going to spend Christmas together and what an I gping to do??? I am going to work!!!! Why be off with no one to spend it with??? Why do I feel this way??? I got a promotion yesterday out of the blue with a big raise and i don’t even care. I don’t have anyone to share this with….he didn’t love me but i didntbknow this…we shared everything. Everything. Now no one to call…je was so good at making me believe him. My world is just spinning. Now I just dont know who to turn to and I just can’t find my way and i cant stop crying…😞😞

mzpis15, so heart wrenching to read your post. I’m truly sorry to hear about the loss of your daughter. Sending you hugs…I have no words to express to you just my deepest condolences for your heart break.

I’m glad you keep coming back. Keep posting as many times as you want…we have all done the same. It really does help to vent out your emotions & feelings here. It’s part of the healing process.

Yes, your heartache over the loss of your daughter was most likely what he focused on. Once they have you hooked then then drop their “nice guy” mask and show you who they really are & then start the devalue & discard process (google with the word sociopaths in front).

I’m so glad that your ex prior was a nice guy. This is your baseline to men. He had compassion & empathy = normal persons feelings.

Please reach out to the National Domestic Violence hotline in the USA 800-799-SAFE to talk with a free counselor and also to get your local abuse center phone numbers where you can go & get free counseling & join a women group meeting. They really do help & you will know that you are not alone while in a safe place to express yourself.

Most family & friends will never understand the evilness of what a sociopath does because the sociopath most likely did not show them his evil side. They are masterful and really emotional & mentally abusing their main target while manipulating others to see that the target vicim is the problem (when we all know this is not true).

Please just know that the best thing that every happened was this evil guy going off to another victims. I know it does not feel good right now but in time you will see this was the best way to get away from him. I know that the fact he did not love you, is so hurtful. I spent 12 years plus trying to make a marriage work when it was never going to work because I was married to an manipulative cunning evil man. Time wasted but know I just reflect on the fact I am FREE…this is a blessing.

Please Please reach out for help today with the National domestic abuse center. And if you have a friend or trusted family member ask them to come to Lovefraud & show them what you learned about your ex. Ask them to be apart of your healing process. They may not want to see the truth because it’s quite fearful & it’s also so out of the norm it’s hard to believe that so many devils walk among us.

The woman that he is with now is being abused just like you were. These evil guys use EXACTLY the same con game on every woman they meet. She has no idea that she is being sucked deeper into his hellish world. But one day she will either break free or she to will be discard for his next target victim.

I have been exactly where you are with the crying…when I didnt think I had anymore tears after sobbing for hours in me…the tears would start flowing. (I never cried so hard in my life) Then came the angry stage and I have never been so angry in my life. What you are going thru is exactly the same stages as a death in the family.

Google: Grieving stages so you understand what you are going thru.

Please Celebrate your Promotion…even if it’s only to run a bubble bath or to relax at home!! This is a good thing in your life!!! CONGRATULATIONS!!! Job well done!!!!

Hugs to you tonight. Keep posting here. Take care.

mzpris15, I just want to add that your mind is awakening to the true reality of who you were with. All of your suppressed feelings are coming up…this is why you are crying so much.

mzpris15…this is how a sociopath sucks victims in. It may make you cry so if it’s too much to read tonight just read it another day. This article was on another site.If you want to talk with others set up a fake email account then a fake Facebook page and then look at Facebook pages like After narcissistic abuse (there is light) and Psychopath free. But for your privacy dont use a Facebook page with your real name or if you have a Facebook page now dont use that one this way you can talk freely without friends/family seeing. Set the privacy on the new fake Facebook account to “me only”. This article was on the web.

“CONTROL – HOW THE SOCIOPATH CONTROLS YOU!, SOCIOPATH, UNDERSTANDING THE SOCIOPATHIC MIND

HOW THE SOCIOPATH FOLLOWS THE PATTERN OF IDEALISE, DEVALUE AND DISCARD

It is always shocking to the victim who has been in a relationship with a sociopath, when you are ultimately ’discarded’ leaving you feeling worthless.

You can be left questioning the following:

What did I do wrong?
Why did he stop loving me?
Why did I deserve this?
I want answers
Why has this happened?
Idealise

The first stage can feel heady, and like you are floating on air. The sociopath idealises you. Bombards you with affection. Tells you that you are perfect. Makes out that you are the person that he has waited all of his life for.Tells you that you are the love of his life. He mirrors back to you:

What you need
What you want
What you think is missing in your life
Who you would like to be
The best side of you
It is the idealisation stage (the seduction) which lures you in. Idealising you, makes you feel good. In your own mind you are being given the message:

He likes me for who I really am (who you perceive yourself to be)
He sees my good qualities
He will encourage personal growth
He is just like me
I like this person
This creates a false bonding to the sociopath, because it is based upon manipulation and deception.

Devalue

Once the sociopath has you hooked to the feel good factor, and you are emotionally involved with him, once he has used you for what he wants, you will notice a shift in the behaviour towards you. This is negative attention and words, which will knock you off balance, and take away your own personal power.

He will say now often the opposite of what he said in the initial stages, which will leave you feeling confused.

He now puts down your personal beliefs
Will make you question things that are important to you
Will make comments about how you look
Will make comments about your personal connections and who you are close to
Will often say the opposite of what was said in the idealisation stage, leaving you confused
Will minimise and invalidate whatever is important to you
When the sociopath is in the discarding stage, he is already making plans for exit. He likely has a new source of supply lined up. Everything is behind the scenes, for he is the master strategist and manipulator.

The message you are left with is

This is my fault
I am not good enough
I have done something wrong
I am confused
Discard

After the full blown love affair that has swept you off your feet, to the discarding stage, where you are belittled, put down, made to feel small, made to feel that everything was your fault, were blamed, were accused to deflect from their behaviour, suddenly without warning the sociopath will discard you.

This can be incredibly painful to experience. You are treated as if you are worthless, that you mean nothing. The cut you dead attitude, from the full on seducing stage, can feel dramatic and cruel. Perhaps you had felt that when the devaluing was happening that things would return to how they were in the earlier idealisation stage of the relationship?

It is now that the truth starts to emerge. When you really see the true person come through. Now in the final stage of discard, when the sociopath has a new source of supply you are discarded like last weeks newspaper.

The way that the sociopath cuts you dead at the end is heartbreaking as you search for answers. You call but they blank your calls, or put down the phone. If they do pick up they rant on the phone, and then cut you off mid conversation. You are now nothing to them, and if they do speak to you, it will often be just to tell you how great their life is now. How their new person is nothing like you. How much happier they are without you.

You are left stunned, and often believe the lies that are being told to you. Yes, that is right lies. As that is all that it is. Just as the sociopath lied in the beginning ”“ and the middle he now lies at the end. Both to you (about you) and likely to others about you.

The messages that you receive at the end are

This is my fault
I am worthless
I was used
Everything was a lie
Nothing was real
Confusion
And this is the point where, without answers from the sociopath, you search for answers online. Or wherever you can find answers. You are heartbroken, as you think that you will never hear from this person again.

Will you hear from the sociopath again?

Most likely, yes. The sociopath is also a Narcissist and looks for narcissistic supply. He often leaves a relationship with sudden discard, no explanation, and leaving things ’open’ with one foot in the door, so that he can return, should and when he needs to. Sometimes it might be a year before you hear from them again. Sometimes much less time. It really depends on when he needs additional supply. As rarely can he be on his own. He always needs someone else to give him whatever it is that he needs.

Likely he will return, full of further empty promises. Which will be no more than the empty promises that he sold you in the beginning. And he will return (if you allow him to) back to the cycle of:

Assessment
Seducing/gaming
Ruining
But you should not take him back. Things will not get better and he will not change.

You can never change anybody else, and you certainly cannot change the sociopath. But you can change you. It is now time for you to take care of you. To love yourself. To focus your energy on yourself.”

All the feelings you describe are normal and natural. You have been betrayed and you have experienced a big loss. Jealousy is a normal emotion in your circumstances, even though you know in your mind that he’s worthless and he is not good to you. Normal people bond to one another and that works well in a committed relationship with an honest man who cares about your well being.

Sometimes crying is the right thing to do – I hope you feel better soon.

Keep coming back. I felt the same way you did. My addiction and my competitive nature was the cause of me not wanting to lose. I finally asked myself, “lose what?” A person as you mention that show no empathy or compassion. I have seen over and over this none feeling bastard show no emotion whatsoever when I told him things. I saw him cry only once when he talked of leaving his mother in Bosnia and she died and he could not go back for her funeral nor ever to see her again. Many people suffer that loss. Both my grandparents did too but both very religious and both prayed very hard.

The loss of a child is something that is so unexplainable unless one goes through it. My sister died at 39 and my mother was never the same again. She even show distain for me, almost like she wished it was me rather than my sister. I understand, they had a much closer bond. I reminded my mother of my sociopath father who she never got over and I paid dearly for it my entire life.

Christmas together? Christmas is a day of giving and sharing. Find and event where you can go and give a gift for children in need. These people who we devoted our time and love for were undeserving. I can make 24 hours pass like it is just like any other day in my mind. It gets me through the day. I have done it on many occasions.

These people had control over us and minds, we can control our own minds.

Many blessings and prayers you stop crying, your tears are far too valuable to waste on the likes of him.

Know we are all in this together. We all are feeling a loss, but this too will pass.

Thank you, everyone for sharing. I am a newbie and this site has saved me!

Hi dim 15,

I know I am posting to you all over the place this morning, but that is because you are one of the LUCKY ones who can get out FAST, and walk away with just a few scratches.

There are women here who have been dragged through YEARS of torment, who started out just as you have…with a brief ‘affair’. Don’t let this happen to you. Just CUT CONTACT of any kind. Simply take your good heart and make a hasty exit.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Do these people become dangerous once exposed???

Dim15,

Sociopaths and psychopaths are always potentially dangerous because they do not have the internal restraints that prevent normal people from harming others. Spaths say and do whatever they think will
work to get them what they want in any given situation if they think they won’t get caught.
You might consider how much the spath in your personal experience harmed you already. You might also consider ways to keep yourself safe. Limit all access the spath has to you and anything about you that you can, such as social media and any other online/internet presence you have. Change locks. Try not to let the spath get information about you andyour activities. Avoid engaging in a war to ‘win’ against the spath. Consider not ‘exposing’ the spath to others unless it is clearly beneficial to prevent harm to them. Consider making yourself as invisible and as boring as possible to the spath, for your safety.

I keep coming back here because i can’t talk to anyone that i know about this. 😞 I hear why aren’t you over this jerk again then i don’t know what I’m going to do… I’ve been thinking and thinking about what made him laser un in me in the beginning. As i look back it was 10 years since my daughter had been killed in a car accident. That’s what made me a good mark….I should of known he was a person without empathy or a soul when he never said one thing about it. Nothing. No questions just acted like it didn’t happen even though u mentioned it and it upset me…The prior boyfriend he was so compassionate. He sent flowers to her grave. He bought me a bracelet with her name on it, it was Hope and he even found a couple of things when he went out of town that i had mentioned in passing that I wanted to make sure i was happy….how can I be jealous if this new person he’s with??? I know they are going to spend Christmas together and what an I gping to do??? I am going to work!!!! Why be off with no one to spend it with??? Why do I feel this way??? I got a promotion yesterday out of the blue with a big raise and i don’t even care. I don’t have anyone to share this with….he didn’t love me but i didntbknow this…we shared everything. Everything. Now no one to call…je was so good at making me believe him. My world is just spinning. Now I just dont know who to turn to and I just can’t find my way and i cant stop crying…😞😞

Thank y’all for you kind words and support. It has helped so much.I am in the adopt a senior program and go 1 time a week to see my beautiful Ms Carol…She has MS so she can’t hardly talk, she cant feed herself or get dressed or any of the things we take for granted each day. But she has the biggest smile on the planet. She is my girl.. I love her so much. There are also other seniors there and all they want is asmile and a hug….my Ms Carol hadn’t been our of her bed for 2 yrs. Not because she couldn’t but because she said she didn’t have a reason to. Today was a big blessing. She got out of bed and we went to happ hour and listened to some music and she was happy and now she doesn’t want to miss anything….i try feel sorry for spath that do not have empathy or love or anything else in their life…When i go there my problems are nothing compared to what i see. That man will never take my joy again. He will never joy in his life..and I will always have angels in mine

Thank you for sharing this inspiring and heart warming experience. It put a smile on my face this morning.

Yes, this is beautiful 🙂

Many of you have read my posts. In one of them I told you that I left a series of messages and even took photos of quote with respect to sociopathic behavior to my sp.’s ex who was with him for seven years and was going to take him back. I learned today that she is not taking his calls. The last message I sent her simply stated that I did not seek him out and when I found out about her I dropped him but he was relentless and charmed me back on numerous occasions. I also told her to show the information I shared with her to someone who loves her in her family or a good friend and get their opinion and take from there. I was not the enemy, he was.

i pray she stays strong. I am. He is almost a distant memory.

Sounds like you are doing the right things for yourself and for others, and that you are doing the hard work of moving forward.

Today is another hard day for me. Off 4 days and no one to spend it with. I know my ex’s schedule and he is off 4 days as well but he has someone to spend it with. Its hurtful and painful that I spent over a year with this awful person and he just gets to carry on like he doesn’t have a care in the world. Its true. The good ones finish last.. I just hate this time of year so much. Everything you see on tv says if you don’t have a family or significant other then you are not anything. I am trying so hard to work through this. I’m trying to decide if he really is a sopath or if it was really just me. I’m just so mixed up. What do I keep doing wrong? What did I do for this person to do this for over a year and me not leave ? I’m lost and can’t find my way..

Hi mzpris15, I know it’s hard this time of year especially everything you are going thru & have gone thru.

There is a site called Meetup. com. It’s a free site that list all of the clubs, organizations and groups in each city. Check it out to see if there is something that interest you. Stick to the ALL FEMALE groups for now since you are vulnerable you dont want to get caught in another abusive relationship.

As for this guy…is he a sociopath or not?

The fact that he had zero compassion & empathy for your daughter passing each year leads to the fact that most highly definitely he is a sociopath!

It is very common to start to question everything about your relationship over and over. Is it me or is it him. This is another indication that YES it is him that is the problem. A normal person does not cheat or lie and then go off leaving the ex in the dust so quickly if they have empathy & compassion.

When I first went to my counselor after literally packing up my car and driving 3000 miles away I told my counselor the same…I said “ I dont know if it’s me, if it’s him or both, I am so confused”. And right there that was a huge red flag for the counselor that I was in a abusive relationship. After 20 minutes of asking me question the counselor told me that she believe I was married to a sociopath.

I had no idea what this meant…more confusion. She gave me the book “Woman who love psychopath by Sandra Brown. I read it none stop for next two days literally sobbing endlessly because it was TRUE I was married to a sociopath.

Everything made sense with regards to my marriage….all the craziness he did made sense…every thing made sense as to why I felt like I was going crazy (he was gas lighting me!!).

The biggest thing you should focus is not “is is a sociopath or not” but instead ask this question:

Did he abuse me emotional, mentally, verbally, financial and/or physically. IF the answer is yes to any or all = he is a sociopath with narcissistic personality disorder or a narcissist = ABUSERS!!

If I remember correctly you thought he cheated on you with several women. This is exactly what sociopaths do.

But again the most important thing is to ask yourself was I abused. Was I miss treated.

If you are not sure post some more about your relationship here and also go to the National Domestic Violence Hotline website and read every thing on their site.

But more importantly CALL THEM to talk with them for free! USA 800-799-SAFE. They will help you to find your way!! I promise this is what they do everyday of the year. Help victims of domestic abuse.

Did you know that 1 in 3 adult woman will ben in a abusive relationship?

Keep reading & watch Donna Andersons video’s up at the top of this website. You can also contact Donna to talk to her via the phone for a small fee just look under the top “Contact” tab for info. Many people call her for help. Especially when they are questioning everything.

YOU ARE NOT ALONE PLEASE KEEP REACHING OUT FOR HELP!!!

Hugs to you!! Take care. â¤ï¸

Your thoughts and feelings are normal for what you’re going through, and the holidays are a very tough time to end a relationship.

You’re asking good questions. There are a lot of good resources on this site and others. The book Women Who Love Psychopaths might be helpful, but there is lots of other helpful books and articles.

The longer you are away from him, you will think more clearly. I am several years out, and still opening my eyes to what happened when I was targeted by a psychopath.

Consider that he chooses to carry on without caring about anyone or anything. You would not make that choice and he is not even in the same universe as you – a ‘good one.’ He isn’t even in the race competing with you; he is just in a hamster wheel of his own destructive, harmful cycle of boring, meaningless behavior.

You sound as though you will find your way again soon.

I hope I can be of help dropping in here once in a while many years since I’ve moved on from the sociopath for whom I discovered this site. I remember one of the hardest things to understand was the pathological lying. I had never seen anything like it, and it took a lot for me to realize it was even happening! For anyone who is in the throes of trying to figure out if the person is lying or not because their incredible lies seem SO believable, I want to share how totally sincere my guy seemed at the time. I was just totally floored when I found out he was lying about so many things. It took a while for me to believe he lied. His lies (and stories about the lies) were so believable. The important thing you need to know here is that there ARE these people capable of playing these kinds of games. They DO exist. And if you think you might be being played or duped, there is a good chance that you are. Listen to what your gut is telling you. There will be a great desire to understand why and try to figure it out. But it is an unsolvable riddle that you will never solve. Just know that you are better than these kinds of games and just move on. You cannot fix or understand the problem.

Hi Stargazer,
Just wanted to add a tiny point to your wisdom.
There’s a REASON I believed his lies. It wasn’t that I was stupid and believed anything someone would say.

My ex was SO loving and sincere and logical and assuring when he lied to me. We were a TEAM and his way of explaining was VERY reassuring to me b/c there was nothing to disagree with. That changed later, because as TIME WENT ON, he forgot what he lied about and he started undermining his own lies. He couldn’t hide absenses anymore (unfaithful), and he had begun showing duping delight for how he was able to use people’s trust to fool them.

I do think, though, that it is a solvable riddle. Once I realized what a sociopath is, then it ALL made sense b/c then I knew, his agenda was ultimately about duping people… he was the ConMan.

oops. I meant to conclude with restating:
There’s a reason we get hooked in, they LIE so VERY believably. When a person has NO conscience, they are VERY sincere.

I found I could fairly accurately predict my ex psychopath’s behavior in many cases, when I understood his motivation. His behavior made absolutely no sense given a motivation for the well being of his family and others, a motivation to protect, improve, appreciate, connect, to keep commitments, honesty, and the Christian values he verbally espoused. But when I knew his true motivation – exploitation, control, power, sadism, sexual perversions, desire for church office, etc, what he chooses to say and do are what he thinks will work to achieve his goals. Of course his motivations don’t make sense to me, but it is what it is.

EVERYONE…please read this!

There is something very wrong in this world and we should keep quiet about it!

http://psychopathsandlove.com/mass-manipulation/#more-30987

I am so happy you posted this. I am sharing with each and every group I belong. Thanks Bev. Not only taken in by the man I was with for two year. Our nation was taken in too.

It is really something.

I meant to type NOT…that we should NOT keep quiet about it.

It is beyond strange that some are saying ‘well, Trump is in now so we just have to give him a chance and the benefit of the doubt’.

No. I will never do that.

I keep thinking that something will happen to finally disqualify him from taking office.

Fingers crossed.

I have been praying for days and working my little fingers off signing petition after petition and sharing them. I have also written so many posts with information so others see the man for what he is. An animal.

AnnettePK — Thank you. Well said. It is hard to not want the last word and to expose him to the world. Like that would even matter. This site has helped me more than I thought possible. Donna Andersen – and all of you out there -my eternal gratitude. My experience was textbook…ran into the guy I LOST MY VIRGINITY TO 30 YEARS AGO at a wake. I am 47. You do the math. Hadn’t seen or wanted to see him. Didn’t even notice him until he approached me. Have to say, wow he aged incredibly. Holy shit.

He then tried to contact me via social media. I blocked him, he had a live in gf. 3 days later, 3 dozen roses at my door and the love bombing began FULL FORCE. They (he and the gf) were just roommates. Blah Blah. Weird thing? She was my fb friend from the same hometown. Her posts were saying the same thing and he basically moved in with me….what a trainwreck…I have to say it was the MOST intimate sex I have EVER experienced. Ever. Felt like making love like never before. Hours.

However, I am a pretty independent, strong willed woman. I have raised money and awareness for nonprofits, including many national women’s organizations, for 25 years. As soon as the gaslighting was even remotely evident, I knew something was off. He also wasn’t the most sophisticated man in the world. But I am not a judgemental person. I started to panic immediately…blah blah…I reached out to her (gf) and everything was a lie. SHOCKER. They have a very toxic, destructive relationship.

Devastated. Soul wrenching.

Then I found this site.

He is TEXTBOOK Lovefraud/Sociopath. Vacant eyes. No soul. Said things to me I had never heard in that way. Fell quick and fell hard. Friends, family very surprised. Caught him off guard discarding and exposing him before he could discard me. His lies were outrageous in retrospect.

I hate to say this really but the gf has stayed with him for YEARS. DECADES. You can’t tell me this was the first time. She needs to stop enabling him and his facade. I emailed her this site. I told her her spirit needed to read it.

Why do they stay????

THANK YOU. Stay strong, stay safe and rock on..

One last thing – the experiences we have all had — are emotional rape. No doubt about it.

That is exactly what it is – taking from their victims by deception and by force. If we knew the truth about them and their motives and how they really feel about us, we would not have chosen to give a minute of our time to them. I felt like I’d been used and raped before I learned what my ex psychopath was about.

It’s difficult to watch someone being victimized and not be able to help, frustrating when they don’t really want to leave. There are so many factors in the mix of every situation; there are many reasons why some victims stay. A Google search on the subject will bring up lists of reasons. Sometimes all we can do is let go and put our energy into ourselves. Maybe the most you can do is let the gf know that if she ever would like any information from you, if she ever wants to talk, she’s welcome to contact you. That way, if she every wakes up and wants to change, she will know that you will offer support. Be careful, though. Interactions and connections of any kind with the spath disordered can be dangerous.

I wondered the same thing why my ex narc new girlfriend was staying with him?? Specially after she heard quite a bit in court!! when I had to get a restraining order against him for stalking me while they were together.. a week later she moved in with him go figure.. he actually used her to try to make me jealous!! By driving by a restaurant that you are able to sit outside with his New GF.. hoping to get a reaction from me. really didn’t get a good look of her until we went to court and oh my God was I surprised?? Cuz he’s all about impressing people I was I can do for him we would go everywhere together to try to show me off not that I’m trying to toot my own horn but I am attractive and slender and pretty well-to-do on top he was a boob man…She on the other hand is ugly, her face features look like she’s either been a drug addict or she’s an alcoholic!! Very heavy.. and wobbles when she walks.. that’s what he was trying to make me jealous with?? REALLY!!.. getting back to what I was told that there are a lot of women out there that are WILLING!!! THEY don’t care if they’re cheating!!! As long as Narc/ sociopath keeps promising them they will be taken care of!! three meals a day.. keep a roof over their head..don’t have to put any money out.. as long as she doesn’t question him of his whereabouts!!?? In her mind that’s a gold mine.. it’s called manipulation on both of their parts..he can do whatever.. usually women like this is insecure.. maybe they have a little bit of narcissist and sociopaths in them. not attractive probably can’t land a man..one does come along has a nice house.. portrays himself to have money.. which she doesn’t have any money that I do know for a fact.. has a Harley, jet ski, lives in an exclusive neighborhood!! In her eyes she feels she has latched onto something wonderful.. these type of women will put up and put out..just to hold on to them.. we all know how these type of narcissists sociopaths have done a smear campaign us all over town this is exactly what I have gone through with the ex narc that I ended the relationship with before he could discard me.. and he knows cuz I’ve thrown in his face that he’s a narcissist sociopath he knows I have his number.. and he knows that I’m going to stick up for myself.. of course that pisses him off.. to this day a friend of mine literally almost pulled him out of the truck! When he kept stalking and harassing me. And was confronted by my friend and all he did was Lie.. state’s not stalking harassing her. half the town has seen him doing this to me.. when Ex Narc sees my friend Ex Narc gets very nervous and Twitches when he sees my gentleman friend that stood up for me one day.. and this is even happened after I got the restraining order against him.. and she’s living with him.. they’re sick individuals and so are the women that latch onto them that stay in abusive relationship! she has to see the writing on the wall!!! and when I’ve seen her in town a couple of times at the grocery store.. she just gives me a smirk that shitty smile.. like I have him he’s mine..he wants nothing to do with u!! That’s the smirky smile that I get from her really that’s why he’s stalking me?? that tells me enough about the bimbo!!! he is with.. they deserve each other that’s why they stay!!!

J.Bridgford, glad you vented here. It’s complexing why a new victim would go out with a sociopath especially since your latest ex’s target victim was in court to hear the truth.

But remember he has already done his smear campaign against you…he has used pity play & every other trick in the book to manipulate her including Lovebombing!! She is being love bombed just like you were love bombed in the beginning of your relationship with him. Because she is being loved bomb she cant connect the dots that he is a bad guy. The love bombing makes him appear to be a “nice guy” so in her mind she is just thinking maybe you & he were not a good match.

His words & actions right now MATCH = this is why Lovebombing is so dangerous to the mindset.

PLEASE PLEASE Dont focus on her!! He is attempting to “sociopath triangulate” (google) you against her. And it’s working.

Please know that she is a victim. I know right now you dont want to believe this, that you want to take your anger out on her but stay mindful and keep your anger pointed directly at him for all the evil he did to you!!!

Dont play his games!!!

Stand back and just laugh at him attempting to suck you back into his sociopath con game and that YOU are wise to his games!!

YOU know the truth about him = he is a sociopath!!

She does not know this fact!!

But she too will learn the truth sadly when his mask falls and reveals his true evilness just like what happened to you.

This guy will play the exact mind games, brain washing, manipulation & tell the same lies to her that he told you. They just keep repeating the same con game because it works over & over for them.

Hugs to you. Stay focused on his games & keep reading to open your mind up from his brain washing & con game.

Take care.

dim15 I am so pleased you were brave enough to make your last comment. When my ex left me I had just been diagnosed with a serious medical condition and told that I may not survive another 6 months. I have a very close relationship with my mother, she’s great but we’ve never discussed sex before. I was in tears, crumpled on my bed, shaking at the shock of my medical news and the fact that my ex had discarded me and I turned to her and said, “Mum, I feel like I’ve been raped.”

My reason for saying that was because the man that I had shared a bed with for 3 years was clearly a total stranger to me. He had no love, no emotion, no care. He abused me physically, emotionally, financially and in a way sexually. I don’t mean to take anything away from rape victims, that is my last intention and it is a terrible crime. I’m just saying how it left me feeling.

I may have mentioned before that you can try endlessly to figure out why a sociopath lies, but you can never quite grasp it because the motives are not really human as we know it. Sociopaths themselves ARE the lie. They lie because they lie because they lie. They lie because they can. They lie because it’s fun. They lie because they want something in the moment. They lie because to them a lie has same value as telling the truth. Truth has no inherent virtue to them. And they mistakenly assume that because they lie, everyone lies. It is just a way of life to them.

In OUR world, we use words in an attempt to connect with others. It is called communication. It is how we reach out for connection, and ultimately, for love. When we are being authentic, our words are connected to our own feelings, our own truths.

In a sociopath’s world, however, words are not connected to anything. They have no particular meaning. It is just as easy for a sociopath to lie as it is to tell the truth. So they will often lie to manipulate or exploit you in the moment for their own entertainment. They are temporarily entertained b getting one over on you or getting something they want. It is a substitute for the real connection and love they cannot feel.

When their victims wonder why the sociopath can seem so happy going through life like this while they, the victims, are left writhing in pain for a long time, consider the different definitions of “joy” and happiness. The sociopath cannot experience true joy, though they’ve had their entire lives to learn how to fake it. Instead, they feel a sort of temporary entertainment before returning to their core emptiness and boredom. Now consider a different kind of joy – a spiritual joy. This joy comes from being deeply connected to our own authentic selves, from feeling deeply, whether it be grief or happiness. it comes from our hearts. Sociopaths cannot feel this kind of joy – they are not wired for it. They cannot feel anything too deeply. That is why they play games. They are looking for the temporary fix of winning, the orgasm, the conquest, anything to fill the void left in their empty souls. They can OBSERVE deep feelings in others, but they don’t understand those feelings, which is why they must feed off the feelings of others in order to survive in their hellish state. It is entertaining to them but ultimately not fulfilling so they must continue playing games to stay entertained.

It is so NOT worth trying to figure out what they meant when they said this or that. It could mean anything or nothing. And ultimately it doesn’t matte. It only matters that you realize these sick games are not good for any human being and that you deserve better.

This is a really good explanation; I’m going to save it.

I ultimately concluded that I’m glad I don’t understand the motives underlying my ex psychopath’s behavior. I know what drives him, but I’ll never understand.

It was helpful for me to understand that spaths don’t lie because of any trait or personal characteristic of the victim. We are not responsible for their lies, sadism, abuse. They don’t treat some people worse and some people better because of who the victim is. They treat their targets in whatever way they think will work to get them whatever they want at any given time. If they think acting ‘nice’ will work they’ll act nice. If they think lying will work, they will lie. They switch from one tactic to another on the same victim according to what they think will work. It has absolutely nothing to do with the qualities of the victim.

Survivors naturally try to understand why to understand our part in the relationship dynamics, which is appropriate in normal relationships. With a spath, there was no relationship and the spath is operating totally differently than a human.

For a spiritual paradigm, consider the symbolism in the Biblical parable of the tares – the tares look like the wheat and they act like the wheat to a certain extent, but they were planted by Satan, not God, and their motives are different. (A biblical reading of Satan’s motives can be pretty interesting, too.)

AnnettePK, after the shock had worn off and I no longer took the lies personally, I became fascinated with sociopaths in general. I wanted to learn everything I could about them because I thought they were fascinating. After a while, and after reading so many similar stories on LF, I found all the traits to be one-dimensional. It’s as if I were reading a novel that only skated on the surface of the characters – what they are doing, what they are wearing, etc., but never dipped below to examine their character or their motives. It became boring. I tried to scratch below the surface to see what the motivations were of sociopaths. All I saw was story after story of lies and deception with no real outcome except the life energy of the victims being sucked out of them. In my life, I look for substance, for character. When I meet someone and I notice they are wearing a beautiful piece of jewelry, for instance, I might ask the story of that piece of jewelry because I want to know what that person is about, what their life story is, how they feel about their lives, and how they view the world. I might ask about their views on politics because I want to now their values and what has shaped their lives. You cannot find those things out with a sociopath – you just get a one-dimensional fake person parroting what you want to hear, what they think they should say. There is no real connection possible with someone like this. However, until you realize this, you will invest your own real emotion with them, and that is what hurts so much when they betray you. It is YOUR motives, YOUR feelings, and YOUR reactions that are most fascinating and worthwhile because YOU are a real and complete human being. I don’t know what the Latin root of the word “fascinating” is, but I imagine it is the same as “facet.” Fascinating people are multi-faceted. They have a lot of layers. Sociopaths have no facets. They are cartoon characters in a world of real people.

I would like to reach out to folks here who are grieving and say that it is possible to feel a sort of spiritual joy even in the depths of your grief. How is this even possible? When I was in the depths of despair, I used self-talk a lot. I reminded myself that I can feel and that this makes me human. I felt grateful for that. I also told myself that the deepest spiritual joy is not possible without having visited the depths of grief. They go hand in hand. This is part of the human experience, and as painful as it is, we are privileged to experience this humanity. A sociopath cannot feel it, try as they may – not the grief nor the joy. That is why they can hurt others so callously and maliciously. If they were capable for feeling the hurt they cause others, would they still do this harm to others? I like to think that in some other realm – maybe the spirit realm – or another lifetime, the sociopath will become self-aware. At that time, all the pain they have caused others will come flooding back to them. It would probably kill them or at least flatten them with the heavy weight of karma. I don’t personally know whether that will happen or not. I stopped caring a long time ago.

The best way to deal with a sociopath is to live a good life without any trace of them. When they no longer exist to you except as a lesson in what to watch out for, you have triumphed.

Stargazer,
What an enlightening post(s) you have written.
I want to type hearts b/c your words fill me with sweet validation. Yes, I am being sentimental b/c validation has been void during most of my life. To know that others have similar feelings and internal experiences that I’ve had is so very validating, I spent so many years feeling completely alone.

My birth family were monsters. I then had a period of time between them and marrying my ex which were mostly wonderful. Then nearly 20 years of incredible isolation and loneliness that was so much like my childhood years with my monster family.

When I left my ex, well meaning people shamed me for “not moving on”. But I was driven, compulsively, to discover what was done to me and why. I knew it wasn’t just an awful breakup. I’d had an abusive relationship in the past and that did not destroy my sense of self like my marriage did. I didn’t know about sociopaths then, but I learned. Once I learned, only then I was able to “move on”. Only then did I realize that the dynamics in my birth family were bigger than hating me for a reason that I couldn’t figure out, they were that way b/c they were sociopathic monsters.

You are so right” in everything you wrote.
For me to understand the inner mind of my ex, I had to set aside my own empathy b/c empathy blinded me, having empathy prevented me from seeing the true nature of HIM. Although I HATED his habit of changing definitions, this was actually a key for me to understand him. I couldn’t find a motivation, instead I realized he had a way of being. He had NO emotional connection, so he had NO motivation. Motivations come from feelings” and another example: he seemed to want sex but I learned, he wanted control and he liked the orgasm, but making love was only a set of actions, not an internal expression of emotions or desire. So doing an animal or himself was the same as being with his girlfriend, no more/no less.

He fooled me for quite a while, he was quite PC. But it was easy for him to be politically correct b/c that’s an external set of behaviors. Some actions, some repeatable platitudes, lots of putdowns of others. He didn’t live or think that way, he was merely able to behave in the prescribed way so that others ascribed feelings to him that he didn’t actually have. He also liked to act out characters in tv shows” at first I thought it was his sense of humor, it was fun to watch him do his act. But it got old very quickly b/c when it came time to make a moral decision on ANYTHING that wasn’t from a tv script, he failed, EVERY TIME. No wonder he had a hard time making certain decisions” since he had no values or motivations, he didn’t have a foundation to draw from. It meant he could NEVER respond, he could only guess how to react.

When I left, I had to face the fact that although I’d been with him for years, I was emotionally invested but he was as if we had just had a first date, a fun date, but it was as if there was NO HISTORY” and for him, there wasn’t. SO shallow that he could “move on” b/c he had never been “in relationship”. He had just adapted certain PC behaviors.

Your insights about how to realize what a sociopath’s inner world actually consists of is a piece of the puzzle that so many of us need, I would welcome more” the wisdom to understand the mind of a sociopath, not a theory but a practical discovery that can only come from experience. Your insights are more illuminating than any I’ve received from people with lots of initials after their name. I’d love to see more from you on this topic, maybe be a featured writer? You are writing of the discoveries I made, not just a list of characteristics but they why that there isn’t any “THERE”, there.

Yes, I second this post, NotWhat…

Stargazer’s last two posts are ‘keepers’ for my archives. I, too, have never read ‘it’ put quite so eloquently and perfectly.

I don’t know what the Latin root of the word “fascinating” is, but I imagine it is the same as “facet.” Fascinating people are multi-faceted. They have a lot of layers. Sociopaths have no facets. They are cartoon characters in a world of real people.

Stargazer, we were both wrong, hee hee! 🙂 Noticing the “s” in there (“fasc-,” not “fac”), I thought the word might be related to “fascist,” “fascism.” Why those words? Well, Mussolini’s Fascists took their title from the “fasces,” a bundle of rods with a protruding ax head that was carried before a magistrate in the old Roman Empire as a symbol of his power and authority. I gather this bundle of rods had a double meaning for the Fascists of the twentieth century. It symbolized “strength through unity,” on the principle that one rod could be easily broken while the bundle as a whole was much stronger. But it also symbolized dictatorial power, and as everyone knows, Fascism was a highly dictatorial ideology. Specifically, the bundle was about the magistrate’s power to punish those who didn’t fall into line. The rods symbolized the punishment of whipping, and the ax head, execution by beheading. Grim stuff!

So what on earth might that have to do with “fascinating” anyone? To “fascinate” someone does mean to “hold them in thrall,” to “capture” their attention, to “exert power over them,” in a manner of speaking. So it’s very much about “power,” of a certain kind, and given the close similarity of the words I was guessing there might be a connection. The meanings of words do evolve in just such strange ways.

I can’t tell how much of it was also because “fascism” was already on my mind. I’d just been reading that article by Adelyn Birch that Bev linked to above, whose author seems to think Trump is a “fascist”! (For the record, I’m afraid I was NOT impressed with the article. Birch is just one more leftist who “doesn’t get” why her bunch lost the election, because she’s ideologically deaf to the voices of those who, rightly or wrongly, voted for Trump. Amazingly, many of those who voted for him didn’t like him either!–though naturally they had their reasons for doing what they did. But that’s a whole ‘nother story…)

Anyway my guess was wrong too. It turns out that “fascinate” derives from a different Latin word meaning to “bewitch,” or “put a spell on.” It may be influenced by older words meaning to “speak,” just like other words to do with speaking such as “enchant” and the German “besprechen,” which also have meanings similar to “fascinate,” or “put a spell on.”

I always find words interesting, so thank you for prompting me to educate myself on that word!

Like other posters here, I also enjoyed and thoroughly agreed with your comments about why psychopaths lie, because what they’re expressing with their words is “not connected” to truth or to reality. Words for them serve the sole function of getting something they want, and Truth is irrelevant.

I’ve had similar notions myself, and what strikes me in addition is that psychopaths could be seen in certain ways as “disconnected” from reality in general. Not only that, but in terms of time, the “parts” of reality could be seen as “disconnected” from one another in the mind of a psychopath. It’s “past,” “present,” and “future” that I’m talkng about. We all know that they’re interconnected into a coherent whole by the agency of cause and effect. What is done in the past has consequences in the present. Likewise, what is done in the present has consequences in the future. Yet psychopaths often seem blind to both. All too often they don’t learn from the past, from their own mistakes, and seem immune to the effects of punishment for past misdeeds. It doesn’t change their behavior in the present. And in the present they often indulge in reckless behavior, heedless of the consequences even to themselves, in the future. So in some ways it’s as if they don’t “connect” the past to the present and the present to the future—just as their words about the past may bear no relation to the truth of what really happened back there, and their promises about the future have no meaning in terms of any real intention or commitment!

Redwald- I agree
“their promises about the future have no meaning in terms of any real intention or commitment”. No meaning at all.

That is very kind, both of you. I wouldn’t mind being a featured writer on the site. I’ve written one article here. Would help to ask if I could cut and paste the last two posts together into an article that could be bookmarked for later reference?

Typos….I meant to say, “Would it help” for me ask Donna if she could turn both of those posts into an article? I’m so grateful I’m able to help anyone on this site. The site was very dear to me several years ago when I really needed it.

Yes please…absolutely.

Yes, Stargazer.
Your posts are dead on, would make an outstanding article… Sociopaths do not experience an emotional state, they have NO conscience. I remember asking “what does that mean”… and your posts answer that important question.

You explained WHY they were the lie from the beginning, they are ALWAYS a lie, there is NO “management” of this disorder, and thus, why we are NOT at fault and the ONLY path is to get away from them b/c to be with them is to live with the absence of reality… which is why we feel SO CRAZY. We are not crazy, but we were in a crazymaking situation.

Dear NotWhatHeSaidofMe, thank you again for your kind words. I think Donna is on break (good for her), and I don’t know if she will want me to be a regular contributing author. But feel free to prompt me and I’ll post about any related topic. Sometimes all it takes to have an energetic shift is to read something that hits you just the right way.

That is so true.

Hello everyone. I am not sure how many of you know about the website Quora. I found it when I was seeking help and information an=bout the spath in my family.

Anyway, it is a site where anyone can pose a question and anyone can answer said question. Sort of an ‘ask the audience’ type thing. There are people on that website who claim to be experts in every field imaginable. Whether they are or not is anyone’s guess. There are also just regular joes, like myself.

There is a woman on there with the user name ‘Athena Walker’ who claims to be a diagnosed psychopath. I want everyone to see this latest post by her. Our beloved Lovefraud website is included in this post. I want to be educated on the subject of personality disorders. I want to know what I am talking about. Perhaps we group these disorders into one. I am not sure what the truth is. As I said, I am just an average joe.

Here is the post. I would love everyones’ thoughts:

Athena Walker, Psychopathy is present from the first breath one takes, to the last.
Updated Oct 4 · Upvoted by Peter Midgley
There is a plague of this in recent times due to incorrect sites like Lovefraud and psychopathfree. They purport to know the differences , yet the assign narcissistic personality disorder traits and attributes to psychopaths, asserting that narcissists and psychopaths are the same thing. Narcissists and narcissistic personality disorder is not even the same thing. They are even wrong there. Not a great information source at all. All they truly care about is selling their poorly written books.

All psychopaths being narcissists as they proclaim is incredibly misinformed. I have never wanted someone to worship me. In reality, that is a factor that immediately makes me suspect and not trust a person.

Primary psychopaths are not associated with narcissism as a whole, though the myth persists……. quite annoyingly I might add. I am quite self interested, meaning I will see something I want and obtain it. I am not however, self obsessed. I do not have some grand opinion of myself, I don’t consider myself above others, I am me, they are them. If there is something that I want, I will do what I can to get it, and I am largely successful at it. If it doesn’t play out, I’m fine. It doesn’t bother me, short of my evaluation of what I could have done better to complete my goal.

Those of us that choose to write here that are psychopathic do so with various reasons. For me, a large part of it comes from the rather large body of misinformation that there is regarding psychopathy. We are spoken about in completely wrong terms on television, or the term is assigned to people that hurt someone else’s feelings. Generally that goes something like this;

They had a terrible breakup, their marriage ended. Something must have been WRONG with their ex, and they intend to figure out what it is. They found some garbage site that claims that it can educate them on psychopaths. OMG!!! My ex is a psychopath!!! They will read all the terrible information on this site and it will become their new bible. They know EVERYTHING now. They have known SEVEN……..no no EIGHT….EIGHT psychopaths. Psychopaths everywhere! I have to warn everyone.

And then they end up on this site with a bell and lantern screaming, the psychopaths are coming!! The psychopaths are coming!!! Like they’re Paul Revere for the neurotypical world. They have no idea what they are talking about. They don’t know what a psychopath is. Yet they tell everyone what we supposedly are and what supposedly we do.

I am not so keen to have this person in charge of how psychopathy is perceived by the neurotypical world. I sense they may be biased.

People make this mistake because they are hurt that they were so easily discarded. Since lack of bonding is a psychopathic trait the assume that the rest is somehow right as well. If they actually spent a period of time learning about us without being personally biased, they would see that the partner that they are so sure was psychopathic, was instead narcissistic personality disordered person.

So, let’s clear a thing or several up, shall we?

If we break up, I do not care about you. At all. I won’t even think of you. I am not “coming after you” I am not out to punish you, I could care less about you. Yes, it sucks to know we can discard you and never be bothered with you again, but that is what we do. We don’t bond like that, and for the most part, unless you really do something horrid, we don’t need to seek revenge. Sorry, that is the wounded pride of the narcissist, not a psychopath.

We do not stay mad at you for years. What a waste of my time that would be.

I don’t want to be worshiped.

I am not self obsessed, I am self interested. That means I want stuff for me

I don’t gaslight people. Again, complete waste of my time. Also I might add, gaslighting is weak manipulation. People that employ this are pathetic in my eyes.

I don’t love bomb.

I don’t put you through a devaluation phase

You can’t hurt me emotionally. I don’t have the wiring available for that to work.

If you do something to really really violate my trust in you, that is the only time I will be bothered with leveling you, and then, it’s only justice. I don’t go after you directly. In fact, I want to take your life apart like a Jenga tower. When it’s over and your life is ruined then we are even, but I have no need of you knowing that I did it. Your wreckage is all that matters to me.

This is a VERY small selection of some of the most common things that are misconstrued about psychopaths

So, to sum it

Sociopath

Sociopaths are made, not born. They are not the same thing as a psychopath though some people are dedicated in making them synonymous. They have circumstances in their lives, whatever they may be, that change their interaction in the world. When we are born, circumstances affecting brain function change what neurons grow. If you are spoken to and read to, neurons attributable to language are nourished, if not, they will die. It can be sometimes changed or reversed if heavy intervention is applied in later life. If you raise a child with pain, abuse, and neglect you can create yourself a fun sociopath. (Note sarcasm on the fun part).

A sociopath is a person that went through some sort of trauma, abuse, or neglect in their lives, usually childhood. They have formed the condition of sociopathy as a result of said abuse. This means that they were born, at least in current theory, neurotypical and from that point the trauma they endured formed the sociopathic condition. What that often means is that they have a difficulty regulating emotions as they were not well or properly formed in the first place.

Their emotional tuning board is out of balance. They have muted responses to some things, and exaggerated responses to others. Often the exaggerated responses are due to triggering stimuli that bring about a reliving of that trauma in one form or another. They may respond badly to raised voices, sexual situations, violence, or a number of other things.

Narcissist

Narcissism can be summed up this way. There is self esteem that normal people have, and the narcissistic self esteem. This is tremendously inflated and a beast to be around. They really see themselves as special, better than the best niftiest person that ever lived. There is no chink in the armor, they are simply infallible in their minds.This of course varies in strength person to person. People can certainly be on a continuum when it comes to narcissism.

Narcissistic Personality Disorder.

NPD is a personality disorder and is diagnosable. This comes in different strengths. The overwhelming continuum throughout is that they project a powerful ego while having nearly no self esteem whatsoever in the real sense of themselves. They distract themselves from that gnawing emptiness by what is call narcissistic supply.

They are rather different conditions and present very differently. It is a common misperception that they are one and the same thing. NPDs are like hollow husks with a shred of a person inside. All of their bravado and grandeur is not only a show for you, but for themselves as well. To focus out onto the “person” they created, they can ignore the speck of a person they are.

The person that they are has a tremendously small sense of self. They have virtually no self esteem if they have any at all. This causes them to be rather dedicated to the lie, and in that lie, they are infallible. They are Gods among men, and you (lowly human) have no place but to be grateful to be in their presence.Narcissism and NPD are rather different conditions and present very differently. It is a common misperception that they are one and the same thing. While NPD is not be something you would expect to see with psychopathy, narcissism on the other hand, if the psychopath is prone to it, would be the comorbid condition if narcissistic traits were attached.

Psychopath

Psychopaths have marked brain differences from a neurotypical brain. Our amygdala alone is around eighteen percent smaller, as well the same showing/damage to the orbital cortex, the frontal lobe, and also the insula which is located deep in the cerebral cortex.

Psychopathy being characterized by low fear is consistent with abnormalities in the amygdala, since detriments in aversive conditioning and instrumental learning are thought to result from amygdala dysfunction, potentially compounded by orbital frontal cortex dysfunction, although the specific reasons are unknown.

The orbital cortex regulates impulsivity, and the frontal lobe is the damage to the ethics and morality section of the brain. All of these areas will show a pattern that is present and distinctive for a psychopathic brain.

It is also why we do not process our chemical or electrical impulses as a neurotypical does.

The association of psychopathy with narcissism as the same thing is quite simply ignorance by people that, if they want to use terminology, they should know what they are taking about.

Hi Bev, thanks for posting. First off it’s a typical rant from a sociopath demanding that we see things their way not our way.

Second, I would much rather hear from her ex friends & family members that want nothing to do with her then to hear anything that this sociopath has to say.

I read nothing but manipulative words from her. Sociopaths always blame others & this is what this article in a nut shell is doing….that it’s our fault for not fully understanding a sociopath.

All sociopaths are narcissist!! That is all you need to know other then RUN fast away from them!!!

Thank you, Jan7.

I agree 100%.

There is a lot of similar prose on the internet like this. There are several sites supposedly for and by psychopaths/sociopaths. I don’t find any value in this for me; it’s a collection of loosely related opinions and ‘facts’ without any reference to the source, and doesn’t seem to have any point nor conclusion. I prefer to read the results of scientific studies in established journals written by the scientist who actually did the research.

There is a lot of good info available on observed differences between ‘normal’ and psychopath’s physiology. My discernment is that, like other traits we are born with, such as a tendency towards alcoholism or other addiction, musical talent, athletic talents, etc, etc, etc; that individual choices contribute to the development of the brain and physical body. Consider that every lie one tells gets easier. Practicing kindness creates a habit and affects the physical construct of the brain. So does practicing music, reading, learning a language, or playing violent video games.

Einstein’s brain had some physical differences. Is this why he thought about theoretical physics a lot, or did his brain develop differently because he chose to think about theoretical physics more than the rest of us?

I could comment in more detail on Athena’s post, but since I don’t have the time right now, I think her view could be summarized as:

“All psychopaths are just like me–or anyway just like my preferred perception of myself!–and we’re nothing like those dreadful narcissists, so there!”

Snort….this is perfect.

🙂

You know Bev…she sounds very intelligent, opinionated, and she is pretty articulate. She may be disordered. This doesn’t make her a personality disorder expert, except in her own mind. People can be diabetic, or schizophrenic, and not be experts on the subject. And even if they became experts, it is doubtful they would be condescending if they were explaining it to someone, or scornful of other experts/researchers (as this woman clearly is both).

Good for her, she doesn’t seek revenge. Many disordered personalities do; and I am not sure it’s all that important to figure out which SPECIFIC types do what, to whom, and when. Plus, if she is disordered her assessment of herself is not honest, not accurate. She cannot, by her nature, be subjective about herself. AND, why would we trust her to be honest about if she has ever sought revenge?

They are all a bit different, sitting on the spectrum of disorder and narcissism at various places. All of them are a bit of a mash up of disorders. She is likely no exception.

She is, in true disordered form, saying one thing but doing another. She is discrediting other people (like Donna), who have honest and decent intentions to aid those who have been damaged by these types. AND, at the same time she is totally setting herself up as the person with ‘all the answers’; even though she says she doesn’t want any glory or recognition. It’s complete BS, really. She has a very ‘silver tongue’ writing style.

Most of these types are not ONLY psychopaths, narcissists, borderlines, etc. They generally have overlapping traits. So, some disordered people are overtly narcissistic; loud, braggarts, who constantly toot their own horns. Some appear less grandiose, and are quiet types; their narcissism maybe is a bit less brash, more covert. Some psychopaths have killed themselves, like borderlines (who are known for ‘self-harming’ behaviors). I could go on.

But what it boils down to (to me) is this lady is parsing. It makes her feel smarter than everyone else to dissect all this, and give the impression she know it all. I laughed that she writes that she wants to clear up the large body of misinformation about psychopaths. Riiiight. Sure she does.

Thank you Slim. I could not agree with you, more. I subscribe to the Quora website and have listed personality disorders as my main interest. Therefore, I get these posts on the subject through my email. ‘Athena’ tends to answer every single post about this subject. I cannot even chime in nor reply to her posts, for some reason. The website is set up, I suppose, so that you either can ask, just answer, or both? I have no idea. I do know that she is the only self proclaimed psychopath that I an unable to comment on her posts.

They sure are fun to read sometimes, however, this time she mentioned Lovefraud, as if we are all a bunch of inane chickens with our heads cut off, proclaiming our expertise on such disorders, as it may pertain to someone that we know or have known.

Cheers for your timely response! Spot on.

Slimone,
Athena was doing something my ex did, as you write, parsing. My ex did it as proof. stating that since he wasn’t as bad as his dad, then what he did to me wasn’t abuse. He failed in awareness (lack of conscience) that abuse is ABUSE. It’s not excused b/c it’s different than the abuse done by others. (My ex did not think his father was an abuser, he only acknowledge that other people said the things he was were abusive.) My ex husband’s ability to HYPER compartmentalize was a symptom of his disorder.

Athena does the same, she hyper compartmentalizes (parsing), stating these things are different (fails to see overlapping indications), whereas normal feeling people are able to perceive connections or links such as abuse = abuser. And in so doing, she reveals her sociopathy.

OMG. So true.

I am so glad that I posted this person’s writing (parsing).

It is as if she sits on a throne, looking down, laying down the law on what is and isn’t, and who is and isn’t…

I allowed my sociopath back into my life again over the holidays. I knew exactly what he was up to and I let it all unravel as his daughter in law had painted the entire scenario. In the two years I know him, this was the second time I saw Mr. Sweet guy. He even spent money on me. I almost fell over. But then the ugly came out again and his sociopathic gas lighting began once he got what he wanted. He was so sweet making all sorts of promises to me. All he wanted was to go to a New Year’s Eve party we were invited to. I was just about over him when I allowed myself to be sucked in once more.

This self-proclaimed sociopath appears to be trying to rid herself of her label even though she admits to being a sociopath. You see when I call my sociopath out he goes crazy and says I am one. I question myself often as my father was a sociopath and perhaps I have some of that in me. This may explain why I was drawn to this man in the first place and then it became a challenge I wanted to win.

Since Thursday I have been on a roller coaster ride of all rides. He covered nearly all his sociopathic behavior in five days. Last week he deliberately called my house knowing I was having my family for dinner. By doing so he cause a great disturbance in my family and a friend. For the most part the month of December was great without him in it. But he used his force and other people’s phones to get through to me. I met him one night and talked for hours and I explained what I needed in a relationship and he just could not give it to me as he has too many issues. He was so charming and convincing. A week went by and we got together again and this time he again was so charming and making all sorts of promises. The next day the roller coaster ride began again. By Saturday I thought I would be rid of him but he turned his charm on again, enough so to earn him another good time out. I can go on but the fact is, he needs to be out of my life for good. Even though I blocked him on Sunday, he showed up pleading with me. I unblocked him and he spent the night. He did not get what he thought he may get and this made him angry by Monday and I was going to pay. Well, I did not take it sitting down and if anyone paid it was him. I was going to change my phone numbers today but is too much a hassle and no sense blocking as he calls by any means he can. All I can do is not answer.

These types do fall under more than one mental illness and mine I believe is in a class all his own.

Happy New Year to you all and wishes for many successes. I am praying I get the strength to no pick up the phone ever again.

I found her post to be very entertaining! I totally get that. When it is at a distance, and there is no chance of harm…they can be fun to ‘watch’.

Yes, that is exactly what I mean. She is so smug, it is laughable. Apparently, she has had a brain scan that led to her psychopathy diagnosis. And, yes, now she is the authority on the subject.

What Athena appears to be referencing is “attachment disorder.” From all I’ve learned here and studying psychology, I’ve come to believe that not all people with attachment disorder are sociopaths; however ALL sociopaths have attachment disorder. If you are interested in attachment disorder, there is a very good movie on the internet called “Child of Rage.” It is based on a true story of how a young girl who had been sexually abused by her father as an infant overcomes attachment disorder through the help of a controversial technique called “holding.” (Later the same therapist used that technique on a similar patient and accidentally smothered her to death.) I found the story a fascinating observation of the extreme effects of early childhood trauma and what is sometimes necessary to recover from it.

The research shows that sociopathy is not something that is caused by abuse or neglect. It appears to be genetic and biologically based. However, I’m sure growing up neglected or abused won’t help. Sociopathy in children is a gray area with many articles written about it here on this site alone. If a child is showing sociopathic tendencies, there is literature on how to help them form different neurologic pathways by teaching them empathy. I think it’s safe to say, however, that if an adult is exhibiting sociopathy, they probably will not ever change and probably cannot be helped (because even if they could, usually they don’t want to).

This is so true and evident.

Hello,
I haven’t been on here in a little while. I am still struggling to believe that i wasn’t the cause of our troubles and not him being a sopath. I don’t understand why I would not walk away from this horrible person or beg him to stay with me. Why would l let him keep coming back knowing he really didn’t love me. I have never had my heart broken like this before. In the end it he stil didn’t love me.

I did figure out that he was like my sister. We never got along our entire lives. I would take anything she would do to me in hopes that she would love me. It didn’t work and she died not loving me.

The most horrible part of it all is in my is i still just want him to still love me. This is so sick and disgusting that I would still want his validation when he is worth nothing. Everyday I want this pain to lessen but it doesn’t seem to. I pray, I keep busy, I give back to social causes. Nothing seems to Work.

Thank you for listening

mzpris15, your longing is not sick at all – it is very normal. As humans, it is a core desire for us to bond. If there is an absence of healthy people in our lives to bond with, we will bond with an unhealthy person, a substance like alcohol, a stuffed animal, a phone, or pretty much anything. Remember the Tom Hanks character in that movie where he was lost on a deserted island for 4 years? He survived by talking to a soccer ball named Wilson. It is human nature and doesn’t say anything bad about you. I remember how very painful it was to find out I was duped and all the love and attachment I felt in my heart had nowhere to go, so it was still directed toward him. I wanted to die. A big turning point came for me when I was driving home from work one day with my normal depression. I happened to be listening to a very sad love song and it made me cry. Instead of turning it off, I turned it up and let the pain come out. After that I listened to as many sad songs as I could to try and bring up the pain. I assure you that there was one cry that turned out to be the last one. It does end but before you can get over it, you first have to go through it. Slowly, you can begin to build more solid relationships with other people and even with yourself. Those relationships will fill the void of the longing and isolation. The trick is – what we all had to learn – is how to identify healthy people from unhealthy ones and seek them out.

I want to add to my last post that if you really feel that deep down there is something wrong with you, you are also not alone. I feel that sometimes and so do a lot of people. This is called “shame” and many people have a dose of this from time to time – especially if you had a challenging upbringing. Many people feel deep down that they are not good enough, and that often sabotages healthy life choices. It is very painful to be in this condition. The only way I know to work with it is to recognize it, feel it, and try to identify where it “lives” in your body. Give it some attention and maybe even a voice. Try to just feel it. If you are feeling it, you are not identifying with it. This is a good time to call on God or whatever your spiritual sources are and ask them to help with it. Shame can be very difficult because it lies at the core of who we think we are. But it is not the truth about us. The truth is that there is nothing wrong with us; we are so much more capable and lovable than we imagine.

Hi mzpris15, sending you huge hugs!! I’m so sorry that you are emotionally suffering. It’s hard hon…trust me when I say everyone here has sobbed & cried their eyes out during the healing process especially in the beginning.

One of the things most victims of a sociopath do not realize is during & after they leave this abuser they suffer from PTSD.

If you can find a good endocrinologist doctor and get tested for cortisol levels, vitamin & mineral deficiency and hormonal imbalance plus what ever the doctor recommends.

The biggest issue with PTSD is adrenal fatigue. So do some research on this health issue.

The stress you have been enduring with the sociopath and now that you have escaped him will fatigue your adrenal glands. This will also wreak havoc on your emotions.

Some symptoms of adrenal fatigue:

anxiety
depression
mood swings
sleep issues
memory loss

etc etc its a very long list.

Here are a few sites to start your research….DrLam. com & Adrenal fatigue.org. Both have videos & look at both sites symptoms list.

People think that it’s all in your “head” but it is not the biggest issues is the adrenal glands not working correctly after continual stress. Once you have your adrenal glands functioning correctly you will move back towards your old self.

Keep posting here to let us know how you are doing & to vent.

Hugs to you.

Take care.

mxpris15,

Oh sweetie…it really hurts is why it’s so hard, and it is equally as hard for our hearts to heal after they have been manipulated and betrayed.

The truth is we all (or most of us anyway) did some things, in the context of these abusive situations, that we are not proud of, and that we would not do in the course of a normal relationship. For instance I was willing to entertain the idea of an ‘open relationship’, and even went to some silly meetings. Even though I knew he was full of BS, and that he was just using this ‘poly amorous’ angle as a cover for his abuse and lies. When I changed my mind and said no to this, it became the entire focus of our split. I also, in my hurt, felt if I could ONLY have been more ‘something’ that he would have loved me.

But the truth is whenever we give in to these types, they just change the goal posts, and we never really achieve any lasting love, peace, harmony with them; no matter what we do. It never happens.

The guy I knew has gone on to have multiple other ‘girlfriends’, and each of them have disappeared after a time as well. I imagine they suffered the same fate, and total betrayal, that I did.

Keep breathing through all the feelings, they will pass with time and distance. I never found anything that sped the process…to make me stop hurting. But I do know that ANY contact only made the hurt worse.

((((HUgs)))) Slim

mzpris15,

If you are reading but not posting, I hope that today is a little better. Or, if it isn’t, that you are maintaining no contact, and riding the waves of your healing.

More hugs….Slim

Thank you for caring. Somedays I think I am ok am I can just move on. I don’t think about it at all.the next day it will consume my every free thought i have. I don’t know how to stop keep thinking about how our relationship started and when it changed or if it was this from the day we met. Over and ovrr i cant help from reading all of our old texts to see all of the things that i did wrong and see the mistakes i made. I look at everything thing and beat myself up knowing how horrible everything was and i stayed or let him come back everytime he left. I knew he didn’t love me. I questioned him over and over and he would tell me he did and hownmuch he did and want to spend our life together. Round and around it went. Now i know he didn’t not love me he didn’t even like me. And now he is with someone and he is doing all the the things he said he wanted to do with me that he lied about. Why am i so crushed. My previous boyfriend didnt end this way. Our relationship wasnt this way. We are actually friends. I look at his pictures and think the only good thing about him was he is good looking and that is where his good stops.

I still think it was me that he didn’t want. That i am just trying to find a reason to blame all of this on him and that is why i am so unhappy. He moved on to be with someone that he actually loves because he just didn’t love me.

Time does heal. I know. It is getting better. God does remove your misery. I just i knew how to turn off my brain

I hope you ladies are having a happy new year

The way you’re feeling and thinking is natural. You’re grieving a real loss to you. Grieving is hard work; and when one has been victimized by a disordered person, betrayed, and treated badly, it is painful and recovery takes work. It sounds like you are moving forward and coming to understand that you’re not to blame for his lying to you and betraying you. He likely lied to you about his feelings for you and his promise of staying with you to manipulate you into giving him what he wanted. He didn’t lie to you because of who you are; he lied to you because of who he is.

It is unlikely he is treating anyone else better. He treats people according to whatever works to get what he wants. He lies if it works. He’s likely lying to whomever he is with because he thinks it’s working to get him whatever he wants. People treat others from the same motivation – if he cared about whomever he’s exploiting at the moment’s feelings, he would care about everyone’s feelings.

Consider balancing your grieving and reflection time with time spent doing something you enjoy, talking and visiting with friends and family, watching a documentary or movie you enjoy, etc. You’re right that with time, you will recover fully and you’ll have a good life interacting with good people who appreciate you and care about your well being.

mzpris15,

I used to get frustrated that I went round and round with my healing. Like you say, good one day and not so good the next. Then someone said healing was like a spring (like a slinky, stretched out). I liked to visualize things so this kind of helped me know I was still on my path, even though I was ‘rehashing’ something I thought I had already let go of.

The visual is that we go round that slinky spring, and though we are moving forward, toward the end of the spring, we still spiral around to the same places. HOWEVER, with time, when we spiral around to the same place (same memory) we might see it and experience it just a little bit different. It is less painful, we understand it with more clarity, we feel less burdened by the memory. And so, we are making progress, but it isn’t and ‘all or nothing’ experience.

I also understand what you say about the boyfriend that you are still friends with. Prior to meeting the bad man, I had a 13 year relationship with a really lovely man. We decided to go our own way, and though it was difficult to do, we both supported each other, and we parted with good feelings toward one another; and went on our way to find ourselves, and forge a new life without one another. We have zero animosity.

Nothing like being completely lied to by a predator, made to feel shameful, and dumped. Nothing. These are not relationships, per se. They are experiences. They are learnings.

Stargazer is so right on when she says that we “normals” want to bond. It is part of our humanity to be with one another, love each other, and lift each other up. It is a terrible experience when we realize we were doing our ‘honest’ human thing with someone utterly incapable, who see’s human relations as a ‘game’ to win.

Try not to give too much energy to what he is doing with anyone else. Rest assured it is the same as what he did with you, perhaps with some twists to suit the details of his new situation. But, overall, he is doing his same old thing. He cannot do anything but. So no one is getting something you didn’t.

I thought the same, only to discover years later that many women had become entangled with him, and suffered losses just like I did. Some worse than me.

More hugs to you….Slim

Thank you everyone. It is really hard to know that this person completely started me from his life. I know he has deleted all of my photos, my phone number, anything in his house. That $500 watch and the engraved watch box I bought to go with it. I sure now he said he mom and dad bought it for him. I won’t ever hear from him because to him I never existed…….

On the other hand I have someone that I have been hanging out with. This is someone that I have known for 5 years. He has been there through the entire thing and knows everything. We dated before but broke up due to not being able to find the time to see each other. This relationship was normal and ended well. We’re taking it slow because he knows I need to go at my speed and he is letting me do that. He is a really good person, not a sociopath. The difference in these two people is like night and day. When he tells me he is doing something I don’t have to worry that he is lying to me. He lives 45 minutes from me and I don’t have to worry that he is off with someone else. 🐌🐌 Snails pace is what I want… To all I appreciate the the kind words and support. Thank you

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