UPDATED FOR 2024: When we finally figure out that just about everything a sociopath told us is a lie, we are shocked. How can anyone lie so fluently? And why did we fall for it?
Here are 10 reasons why the sociopath’s lies seem so believable:
- Sociopaths tell you how honest they are
Early on, sociopaths may tell you how much they value honesty, and that truthfulness is the foundation of all relationships. Their objective is to convince you of their trustworthiness, so that when you encounter their lies, you don’t see them.
- Sociopaths lie while they look directly into your eyes
Some experts say that if people look up and to their right while speaking, it’s a sign that they are lying. Other experts dispute this. Regardless, we all tend to believe that if someone can look us in the eye while talking, then they are telling the truth. Sociopaths know this, so they look us in the eye as they lie.
- Sociopaths mix truth with lies
This is a key sociopathic strategy — mixing truth with lies. You know for a fact that some of what the sociopath says is true (and the sociopath knows that you know), so you infer that the rest is true. Unfortunately, you’re wrong.
- Everything is a lie
One way that we spot lies is by noticing change. At first, the story was this, now it’s that. With a sociopath, however, there is no change to notice, because the lying starts from the very beginning and just keeps going.
- Sociopaths lie with no physical reaction
Lying makes most of us feel anxious, which causes physical symptoms. These symptoms are what polygraph machines measure — changes in heart rates/blood pressure, respiration and skin conductivity. Because sociopaths are comfortable lying, they feel no anxiety, so there are no physical changes to observe.
- Sociopaths cover their lies with more lies
When we confront sociopaths about their lies, they tell more lies to cover up the original lies. Most of us would never be able to keep all the lies straight, but sociopaths are frequently gifted in this — they can remember exactly what they told to whom, and they keep the story going.
- “I would never lie!”
When questioned about something they said, sociopaths often proclaim, with righteous indignation, that they would never lie. They are so emphatic about this, and so obviously crestfallen that you could possibly think that they lied, that you end up apologizing — even though they are, in fact, lying.
- Sociopaths lie with complete confidence
It’s hard to imagine that someone who is so charismatic, charming and confident, is also a complete liar. They exhibit no doubt whatsoever. They seem to command you to believe them — so you do.
- The claims are so outrageous that they must be true
Sociopaths claim to be special forces soldiers, foreign royalty, Ph.D. scientists, born-again Christians, spiritual leaders and more. They may forge or buy certificates, medals and other documentation to prove their stories. You can’t imagine anyone would have the nerve to make such claims without them being true — so you believe them.
- Practice makes perfect, and sociopaths practice a lot
The more sociopaths lie, the better they get at it — and typically, sociopaths have been lying all their lives. So they are very, very good at it. Unfortunately, most humans are lousy lie detectors, so the rest of us simply haven’t got a chance. Sociopaths lie, and we don’t spot the lies until it’s too late.
Learn more: Tools for navigating narcissists and other manipulative people.
Lovefraud originally posted this story on Nov. 28, 2016.
Should I warn the next victim?
dim15 I am so pleased you were brave enough to make your last comment. When my ex left me I had just been diagnosed with a serious medical condition and told that I may not survive another 6 months. I have a very close relationship with my mother, she’s great but we’ve never discussed sex before. I was in tears, crumpled on my bed, shaking at the shock of my medical news and the fact that my ex had discarded me and I turned to her and said, “Mum, I feel like I’ve been raped.”
My reason for saying that was because the man that I had shared a bed with for 3 years was clearly a total stranger to me. He had no love, no emotion, no care. He abused me physically, emotionally, financially and in a way sexually. I don’t mean to take anything away from rape victims, that is my last intention and it is a terrible crime. I’m just saying how it left me feeling.
I may have mentioned before that you can try endlessly to figure out why a sociopath lies, but you can never quite grasp it because the motives are not really human as we know it. Sociopaths themselves ARE the lie. They lie because they lie because they lie. They lie because they can. They lie because it’s fun. They lie because they want something in the moment. They lie because to them a lie has same value as telling the truth. Truth has no inherent virtue to them. And they mistakenly assume that because they lie, everyone lies. It is just a way of life to them.
In OUR world, we use words in an attempt to connect with others. It is called communication. It is how we reach out for connection, and ultimately, for love. When we are being authentic, our words are connected to our own feelings, our own truths.
In a sociopath’s world, however, words are not connected to anything. They have no particular meaning. It is just as easy for a sociopath to lie as it is to tell the truth. So they will often lie to manipulate or exploit you in the moment for their own entertainment. They are temporarily entertained b getting one over on you or getting something they want. It is a substitute for the real connection and love they cannot feel.
When their victims wonder why the sociopath can seem so happy going through life like this while they, the victims, are left writhing in pain for a long time, consider the different definitions of “joy” and happiness. The sociopath cannot experience true joy, though they’ve had their entire lives to learn how to fake it. Instead, they feel a sort of temporary entertainment before returning to their core emptiness and boredom. Now consider a different kind of joy – a spiritual joy. This joy comes from being deeply connected to our own authentic selves, from feeling deeply, whether it be grief or happiness. it comes from our hearts. Sociopaths cannot feel this kind of joy – they are not wired for it. They cannot feel anything too deeply. That is why they play games. They are looking for the temporary fix of winning, the orgasm, the conquest, anything to fill the void left in their empty souls. They can OBSERVE deep feelings in others, but they don’t understand those feelings, which is why they must feed off the feelings of others in order to survive in their hellish state. It is entertaining to them but ultimately not fulfilling so they must continue playing games to stay entertained.
It is so NOT worth trying to figure out what they meant when they said this or that. It could mean anything or nothing. And ultimately it doesn’t matte. It only matters that you realize these sick games are not good for any human being and that you deserve better.
This is a really good explanation; I’m going to save it.
I ultimately concluded that I’m glad I don’t understand the motives underlying my ex psychopath’s behavior. I know what drives him, but I’ll never understand.
It was helpful for me to understand that spaths don’t lie because of any trait or personal characteristic of the victim. We are not responsible for their lies, sadism, abuse. They don’t treat some people worse and some people better because of who the victim is. They treat their targets in whatever way they think will work to get them whatever they want at any given time. If they think acting ‘nice’ will work they’ll act nice. If they think lying will work, they will lie. They switch from one tactic to another on the same victim according to what they think will work. It has absolutely nothing to do with the qualities of the victim.
Survivors naturally try to understand why to understand our part in the relationship dynamics, which is appropriate in normal relationships. With a spath, there was no relationship and the spath is operating totally differently than a human.
For a spiritual paradigm, consider the symbolism in the Biblical parable of the tares – the tares look like the wheat and they act like the wheat to a certain extent, but they were planted by Satan, not God, and their motives are different. (A biblical reading of Satan’s motives can be pretty interesting, too.)
AnnettePK, after the shock had worn off and I no longer took the lies personally, I became fascinated with sociopaths in general. I wanted to learn everything I could about them because I thought they were fascinating. After a while, and after reading so many similar stories on LF, I found all the traits to be one-dimensional. It’s as if I were reading a novel that only skated on the surface of the characters – what they are doing, what they are wearing, etc., but never dipped below to examine their character or their motives. It became boring. I tried to scratch below the surface to see what the motivations were of sociopaths. All I saw was story after story of lies and deception with no real outcome except the life energy of the victims being sucked out of them. In my life, I look for substance, for character. When I meet someone and I notice they are wearing a beautiful piece of jewelry, for instance, I might ask the story of that piece of jewelry because I want to know what that person is about, what their life story is, how they feel about their lives, and how they view the world. I might ask about their views on politics because I want to now their values and what has shaped their lives. You cannot find those things out with a sociopath – you just get a one-dimensional fake person parroting what you want to hear, what they think they should say. There is no real connection possible with someone like this. However, until you realize this, you will invest your own real emotion with them, and that is what hurts so much when they betray you. It is YOUR motives, YOUR feelings, and YOUR reactions that are most fascinating and worthwhile because YOU are a real and complete human being. I don’t know what the Latin root of the word “fascinating” is, but I imagine it is the same as “facet.” Fascinating people are multi-faceted. They have a lot of layers. Sociopaths have no facets. They are cartoon characters in a world of real people.
I would like to reach out to folks here who are grieving and say that it is possible to feel a sort of spiritual joy even in the depths of your grief. How is this even possible? When I was in the depths of despair, I used self-talk a lot. I reminded myself that I can feel and that this makes me human. I felt grateful for that. I also told myself that the deepest spiritual joy is not possible without having visited the depths of grief. They go hand in hand. This is part of the human experience, and as painful as it is, we are privileged to experience this humanity. A sociopath cannot feel it, try as they may – not the grief nor the joy. That is why they can hurt others so callously and maliciously. If they were capable for feeling the hurt they cause others, would they still do this harm to others? I like to think that in some other realm – maybe the spirit realm – or another lifetime, the sociopath will become self-aware. At that time, all the pain they have caused others will come flooding back to them. It would probably kill them or at least flatten them with the heavy weight of karma. I don’t personally know whether that will happen or not. I stopped caring a long time ago.
The best way to deal with a sociopath is to live a good life without any trace of them. When they no longer exist to you except as a lesson in what to watch out for, you have triumphed.
Stargazer,
What an enlightening post(s) you have written.
I want to type hearts b/c your words fill me with sweet validation. Yes, I am being sentimental b/c validation has been void during most of my life. To know that others have similar feelings and internal experiences that I’ve had is so very validating, I spent so many years feeling completely alone.
My birth family were monsters. I then had a period of time between them and marrying my ex which were mostly wonderful. Then nearly 20 years of incredible isolation and loneliness that was so much like my childhood years with my monster family.
When I left my ex, well meaning people shamed me for “not moving on”. But I was driven, compulsively, to discover what was done to me and why. I knew it wasn’t just an awful breakup. I’d had an abusive relationship in the past and that did not destroy my sense of self like my marriage did. I didn’t know about sociopaths then, but I learned. Once I learned, only then I was able to “move on”. Only then did I realize that the dynamics in my birth family were bigger than hating me for a reason that I couldn’t figure out, they were that way b/c they were sociopathic monsters.
You are so right” in everything you wrote.
For me to understand the inner mind of my ex, I had to set aside my own empathy b/c empathy blinded me, having empathy prevented me from seeing the true nature of HIM. Although I HATED his habit of changing definitions, this was actually a key for me to understand him. I couldn’t find a motivation, instead I realized he had a way of being. He had NO emotional connection, so he had NO motivation. Motivations come from feelings” and another example: he seemed to want sex but I learned, he wanted control and he liked the orgasm, but making love was only a set of actions, not an internal expression of emotions or desire. So doing an animal or himself was the same as being with his girlfriend, no more/no less.
He fooled me for quite a while, he was quite PC. But it was easy for him to be politically correct b/c that’s an external set of behaviors. Some actions, some repeatable platitudes, lots of putdowns of others. He didn’t live or think that way, he was merely able to behave in the prescribed way so that others ascribed feelings to him that he didn’t actually have. He also liked to act out characters in tv shows” at first I thought it was his sense of humor, it was fun to watch him do his act. But it got old very quickly b/c when it came time to make a moral decision on ANYTHING that wasn’t from a tv script, he failed, EVERY TIME. No wonder he had a hard time making certain decisions” since he had no values or motivations, he didn’t have a foundation to draw from. It meant he could NEVER respond, he could only guess how to react.
When I left, I had to face the fact that although I’d been with him for years, I was emotionally invested but he was as if we had just had a first date, a fun date, but it was as if there was NO HISTORY” and for him, there wasn’t. SO shallow that he could “move on” b/c he had never been “in relationship”. He had just adapted certain PC behaviors.
Your insights about how to realize what a sociopath’s inner world actually consists of is a piece of the puzzle that so many of us need, I would welcome more” the wisdom to understand the mind of a sociopath, not a theory but a practical discovery that can only come from experience. Your insights are more illuminating than any I’ve received from people with lots of initials after their name. I’d love to see more from you on this topic, maybe be a featured writer? You are writing of the discoveries I made, not just a list of characteristics but they why that there isn’t any “THERE”, there.
Yes, I second this post, NotWhat…
Stargazer’s last two posts are ‘keepers’ for my archives. I, too, have never read ‘it’ put quite so eloquently and perfectly.
Stargazer, we were both wrong, hee hee! 🙂 Noticing the “s” in there (“fasc-,” not “fac”), I thought the word might be related to “fascist,” “fascism.” Why those words? Well, Mussolini’s Fascists took their title from the “fasces,” a bundle of rods with a protruding ax head that was carried before a magistrate in the old Roman Empire as a symbol of his power and authority. I gather this bundle of rods had a double meaning for the Fascists of the twentieth century. It symbolized “strength through unity,” on the principle that one rod could be easily broken while the bundle as a whole was much stronger. But it also symbolized dictatorial power, and as everyone knows, Fascism was a highly dictatorial ideology. Specifically, the bundle was about the magistrate’s power to punish those who didn’t fall into line. The rods symbolized the punishment of whipping, and the ax head, execution by beheading. Grim stuff!
So what on earth might that have to do with “fascinating” anyone? To “fascinate” someone does mean to “hold them in thrall,” to “capture” their attention, to “exert power over them,” in a manner of speaking. So it’s very much about “power,” of a certain kind, and given the close similarity of the words I was guessing there might be a connection. The meanings of words do evolve in just such strange ways.
I can’t tell how much of it was also because “fascism” was already on my mind. I’d just been reading that article by Adelyn Birch that Bev linked to above, whose author seems to think Trump is a “fascist”! (For the record, I’m afraid I was NOT impressed with the article. Birch is just one more leftist who “doesn’t get” why her bunch lost the election, because she’s ideologically deaf to the voices of those who, rightly or wrongly, voted for Trump. Amazingly, many of those who voted for him didn’t like him either!–though naturally they had their reasons for doing what they did. But that’s a whole ‘nother story…)
Anyway my guess was wrong too. It turns out that “fascinate” derives from a different Latin word meaning to “bewitch,” or “put a spell on.” It may be influenced by older words meaning to “speak,” just like other words to do with speaking such as “enchant” and the German “besprechen,” which also have meanings similar to “fascinate,” or “put a spell on.”
I always find words interesting, so thank you for prompting me to educate myself on that word!
Like other posters here, I also enjoyed and thoroughly agreed with your comments about why psychopaths lie, because what they’re expressing with their words is “not connected” to truth or to reality. Words for them serve the sole function of getting something they want, and Truth is irrelevant.
I’ve had similar notions myself, and what strikes me in addition is that psychopaths could be seen in certain ways as “disconnected” from reality in general. Not only that, but in terms of time, the “parts” of reality could be seen as “disconnected” from one another in the mind of a psychopath. It’s “past,” “present,” and “future” that I’m talkng about. We all know that they’re interconnected into a coherent whole by the agency of cause and effect. What is done in the past has consequences in the present. Likewise, what is done in the present has consequences in the future. Yet psychopaths often seem blind to both. All too often they don’t learn from the past, from their own mistakes, and seem immune to the effects of punishment for past misdeeds. It doesn’t change their behavior in the present. And in the present they often indulge in reckless behavior, heedless of the consequences even to themselves, in the future. So in some ways it’s as if they don’t “connect” the past to the present and the present to the future—just as their words about the past may bear no relation to the truth of what really happened back there, and their promises about the future have no meaning in terms of any real intention or commitment!
Redwald- I agree
“their promises about the future have no meaning in terms of any real intention or commitment”. No meaning at all.
That is very kind, both of you. I wouldn’t mind being a featured writer on the site. I’ve written one article here. Would help to ask if I could cut and paste the last two posts together into an article that could be bookmarked for later reference?
Typos….I meant to say, “Would it help” for me ask Donna if she could turn both of those posts into an article? I’m so grateful I’m able to help anyone on this site. The site was very dear to me several years ago when I really needed it.
Yes please…absolutely.
Yes, Stargazer.
Your posts are dead on, would make an outstanding article… Sociopaths do not experience an emotional state, they have NO conscience. I remember asking “what does that mean”… and your posts answer that important question.
You explained WHY they were the lie from the beginning, they are ALWAYS a lie, there is NO “management” of this disorder, and thus, why we are NOT at fault and the ONLY path is to get away from them b/c to be with them is to live with the absence of reality… which is why we feel SO CRAZY. We are not crazy, but we were in a crazymaking situation.
Dear NotWhatHeSaidofMe, thank you again for your kind words. I think Donna is on break (good for her), and I don’t know if she will want me to be a regular contributing author. But feel free to prompt me and I’ll post about any related topic. Sometimes all it takes to have an energetic shift is to read something that hits you just the right way.
That is so true.
Hello everyone. I am not sure how many of you know about the website Quora. I found it when I was seeking help and information an=bout the spath in my family.
Anyway, it is a site where anyone can pose a question and anyone can answer said question. Sort of an ‘ask the audience’ type thing. There are people on that website who claim to be experts in every field imaginable. Whether they are or not is anyone’s guess. There are also just regular joes, like myself.
There is a woman on there with the user name ‘Athena Walker’ who claims to be a diagnosed psychopath. I want everyone to see this latest post by her. Our beloved Lovefraud website is included in this post. I want to be educated on the subject of personality disorders. I want to know what I am talking about. Perhaps we group these disorders into one. I am not sure what the truth is. As I said, I am just an average joe.
Here is the post. I would love everyones’ thoughts:
Athena Walker, Psychopathy is present from the first breath one takes, to the last.
Updated Oct 4 · Upvoted by Peter Midgley
There is a plague of this in recent times due to incorrect sites like Lovefraud and psychopathfree. They purport to know the differences , yet the assign narcissistic personality disorder traits and attributes to psychopaths, asserting that narcissists and psychopaths are the same thing. Narcissists and narcissistic personality disorder is not even the same thing. They are even wrong there. Not a great information source at all. All they truly care about is selling their poorly written books.
All psychopaths being narcissists as they proclaim is incredibly misinformed. I have never wanted someone to worship me. In reality, that is a factor that immediately makes me suspect and not trust a person.
Primary psychopaths are not associated with narcissism as a whole, though the myth persists……. quite annoyingly I might add. I am quite self interested, meaning I will see something I want and obtain it. I am not however, self obsessed. I do not have some grand opinion of myself, I don’t consider myself above others, I am me, they are them. If there is something that I want, I will do what I can to get it, and I am largely successful at it. If it doesn’t play out, I’m fine. It doesn’t bother me, short of my evaluation of what I could have done better to complete my goal.
Those of us that choose to write here that are psychopathic do so with various reasons. For me, a large part of it comes from the rather large body of misinformation that there is regarding psychopathy. We are spoken about in completely wrong terms on television, or the term is assigned to people that hurt someone else’s feelings. Generally that goes something like this;
They had a terrible breakup, their marriage ended. Something must have been WRONG with their ex, and they intend to figure out what it is. They found some garbage site that claims that it can educate them on psychopaths. OMG!!! My ex is a psychopath!!! They will read all the terrible information on this site and it will become their new bible. They know EVERYTHING now. They have known SEVEN……..no no EIGHT….EIGHT psychopaths. Psychopaths everywhere! I have to warn everyone.
And then they end up on this site with a bell and lantern screaming, the psychopaths are coming!! The psychopaths are coming!!! Like they’re Paul Revere for the neurotypical world. They have no idea what they are talking about. They don’t know what a psychopath is. Yet they tell everyone what we supposedly are and what supposedly we do.
I am not so keen to have this person in charge of how psychopathy is perceived by the neurotypical world. I sense they may be biased.
People make this mistake because they are hurt that they were so easily discarded. Since lack of bonding is a psychopathic trait the assume that the rest is somehow right as well. If they actually spent a period of time learning about us without being personally biased, they would see that the partner that they are so sure was psychopathic, was instead narcissistic personality disordered person.
So, let’s clear a thing or several up, shall we?
If we break up, I do not care about you. At all. I won’t even think of you. I am not “coming after you” I am not out to punish you, I could care less about you. Yes, it sucks to know we can discard you and never be bothered with you again, but that is what we do. We don’t bond like that, and for the most part, unless you really do something horrid, we don’t need to seek revenge. Sorry, that is the wounded pride of the narcissist, not a psychopath.
We do not stay mad at you for years. What a waste of my time that would be.
I don’t want to be worshiped.
I am not self obsessed, I am self interested. That means I want stuff for me
I don’t gaslight people. Again, complete waste of my time. Also I might add, gaslighting is weak manipulation. People that employ this are pathetic in my eyes.
I don’t love bomb.
I don’t put you through a devaluation phase
You can’t hurt me emotionally. I don’t have the wiring available for that to work.
If you do something to really really violate my trust in you, that is the only time I will be bothered with leveling you, and then, it’s only justice. I don’t go after you directly. In fact, I want to take your life apart like a Jenga tower. When it’s over and your life is ruined then we are even, but I have no need of you knowing that I did it. Your wreckage is all that matters to me.
This is a VERY small selection of some of the most common things that are misconstrued about psychopaths
So, to sum it
Sociopath
Sociopaths are made, not born. They are not the same thing as a psychopath though some people are dedicated in making them synonymous. They have circumstances in their lives, whatever they may be, that change their interaction in the world. When we are born, circumstances affecting brain function change what neurons grow. If you are spoken to and read to, neurons attributable to language are nourished, if not, they will die. It can be sometimes changed or reversed if heavy intervention is applied in later life. If you raise a child with pain, abuse, and neglect you can create yourself a fun sociopath. (Note sarcasm on the fun part).
A sociopath is a person that went through some sort of trauma, abuse, or neglect in their lives, usually childhood. They have formed the condition of sociopathy as a result of said abuse. This means that they were born, at least in current theory, neurotypical and from that point the trauma they endured formed the sociopathic condition. What that often means is that they have a difficulty regulating emotions as they were not well or properly formed in the first place.
Their emotional tuning board is out of balance. They have muted responses to some things, and exaggerated responses to others. Often the exaggerated responses are due to triggering stimuli that bring about a reliving of that trauma in one form or another. They may respond badly to raised voices, sexual situations, violence, or a number of other things.
Narcissist
Narcissism can be summed up this way. There is self esteem that normal people have, and the narcissistic self esteem. This is tremendously inflated and a beast to be around. They really see themselves as special, better than the best niftiest person that ever lived. There is no chink in the armor, they are simply infallible in their minds.This of course varies in strength person to person. People can certainly be on a continuum when it comes to narcissism.
Narcissistic Personality Disorder.
NPD is a personality disorder and is diagnosable. This comes in different strengths. The overwhelming continuum throughout is that they project a powerful ego while having nearly no self esteem whatsoever in the real sense of themselves. They distract themselves from that gnawing emptiness by what is call narcissistic supply.
They are rather different conditions and present very differently. It is a common misperception that they are one and the same thing. NPDs are like hollow husks with a shred of a person inside. All of their bravado and grandeur is not only a show for you, but for themselves as well. To focus out onto the “person” they created, they can ignore the speck of a person they are.
The person that they are has a tremendously small sense of self. They have virtually no self esteem if they have any at all. This causes them to be rather dedicated to the lie, and in that lie, they are infallible. They are Gods among men, and you (lowly human) have no place but to be grateful to be in their presence.Narcissism and NPD are rather different conditions and present very differently. It is a common misperception that they are one and the same thing. While NPD is not be something you would expect to see with psychopathy, narcissism on the other hand, if the psychopath is prone to it, would be the comorbid condition if narcissistic traits were attached.
Psychopath
Psychopaths have marked brain differences from a neurotypical brain. Our amygdala alone is around eighteen percent smaller, as well the same showing/damage to the orbital cortex, the frontal lobe, and also the insula which is located deep in the cerebral cortex.
Psychopathy being characterized by low fear is consistent with abnormalities in the amygdala, since detriments in aversive conditioning and instrumental learning are thought to result from amygdala dysfunction, potentially compounded by orbital frontal cortex dysfunction, although the specific reasons are unknown.
The orbital cortex regulates impulsivity, and the frontal lobe is the damage to the ethics and morality section of the brain. All of these areas will show a pattern that is present and distinctive for a psychopathic brain.
It is also why we do not process our chemical or electrical impulses as a neurotypical does.
The association of psychopathy with narcissism as the same thing is quite simply ignorance by people that, if they want to use terminology, they should know what they are taking about.
Hi Bev, thanks for posting. First off it’s a typical rant from a sociopath demanding that we see things their way not our way.
Second, I would much rather hear from her ex friends & family members that want nothing to do with her then to hear anything that this sociopath has to say.
I read nothing but manipulative words from her. Sociopaths always blame others & this is what this article in a nut shell is doing….that it’s our fault for not fully understanding a sociopath.
All sociopaths are narcissist!! That is all you need to know other then RUN fast away from them!!!
Thank you, Jan7.
I agree 100%.
There is a lot of similar prose on the internet like this. There are several sites supposedly for and by psychopaths/sociopaths. I don’t find any value in this for me; it’s a collection of loosely related opinions and ‘facts’ without any reference to the source, and doesn’t seem to have any point nor conclusion. I prefer to read the results of scientific studies in established journals written by the scientist who actually did the research.
There is a lot of good info available on observed differences between ‘normal’ and psychopath’s physiology. My discernment is that, like other traits we are born with, such as a tendency towards alcoholism or other addiction, musical talent, athletic talents, etc, etc, etc; that individual choices contribute to the development of the brain and physical body. Consider that every lie one tells gets easier. Practicing kindness creates a habit and affects the physical construct of the brain. So does practicing music, reading, learning a language, or playing violent video games.
Einstein’s brain had some physical differences. Is this why he thought about theoretical physics a lot, or did his brain develop differently because he chose to think about theoretical physics more than the rest of us?
I could comment in more detail on Athena’s post, but since I don’t have the time right now, I think her view could be summarized as:
Snort….this is perfect.
🙂
You know Bev…she sounds very intelligent, opinionated, and she is pretty articulate. She may be disordered. This doesn’t make her a personality disorder expert, except in her own mind. People can be diabetic, or schizophrenic, and not be experts on the subject. And even if they became experts, it is doubtful they would be condescending if they were explaining it to someone, or scornful of other experts/researchers (as this woman clearly is both).
Good for her, she doesn’t seek revenge. Many disordered personalities do; and I am not sure it’s all that important to figure out which SPECIFIC types do what, to whom, and when. Plus, if she is disordered her assessment of herself is not honest, not accurate. She cannot, by her nature, be subjective about herself. AND, why would we trust her to be honest about if she has ever sought revenge?
They are all a bit different, sitting on the spectrum of disorder and narcissism at various places. All of them are a bit of a mash up of disorders. She is likely no exception.
She is, in true disordered form, saying one thing but doing another. She is discrediting other people (like Donna), who have honest and decent intentions to aid those who have been damaged by these types. AND, at the same time she is totally setting herself up as the person with ‘all the answers’; even though she says she doesn’t want any glory or recognition. It’s complete BS, really. She has a very ‘silver tongue’ writing style.
Most of these types are not ONLY psychopaths, narcissists, borderlines, etc. They generally have overlapping traits. So, some disordered people are overtly narcissistic; loud, braggarts, who constantly toot their own horns. Some appear less grandiose, and are quiet types; their narcissism maybe is a bit less brash, more covert. Some psychopaths have killed themselves, like borderlines (who are known for ‘self-harming’ behaviors). I could go on.
But what it boils down to (to me) is this lady is parsing. It makes her feel smarter than everyone else to dissect all this, and give the impression she know it all. I laughed that she writes that she wants to clear up the large body of misinformation about psychopaths. Riiiight. Sure she does.
Thank you Slim. I could not agree with you, more. I subscribe to the Quora website and have listed personality disorders as my main interest. Therefore, I get these posts on the subject through my email. ‘Athena’ tends to answer every single post about this subject. I cannot even chime in nor reply to her posts, for some reason. The website is set up, I suppose, so that you either can ask, just answer, or both? I have no idea. I do know that she is the only self proclaimed psychopath that I an unable to comment on her posts.
They sure are fun to read sometimes, however, this time she mentioned Lovefraud, as if we are all a bunch of inane chickens with our heads cut off, proclaiming our expertise on such disorders, as it may pertain to someone that we know or have known.
Cheers for your timely response! Spot on.
Slimone,
Athena was doing something my ex did, as you write, parsing. My ex did it as proof. stating that since he wasn’t as bad as his dad, then what he did to me wasn’t abuse. He failed in awareness (lack of conscience) that abuse is ABUSE. It’s not excused b/c it’s different than the abuse done by others. (My ex did not think his father was an abuser, he only acknowledge that other people said the things he was were abusive.) My ex husband’s ability to HYPER compartmentalize was a symptom of his disorder.
Athena does the same, she hyper compartmentalizes (parsing), stating these things are different (fails to see overlapping indications), whereas normal feeling people are able to perceive connections or links such as abuse = abuser. And in so doing, she reveals her sociopathy.
OMG. So true.
I am so glad that I posted this person’s writing (parsing).
It is as if she sits on a throne, looking down, laying down the law on what is and isn’t, and who is and isn’t…
I allowed my sociopath back into my life again over the holidays. I knew exactly what he was up to and I let it all unravel as his daughter in law had painted the entire scenario. In the two years I know him, this was the second time I saw Mr. Sweet guy. He even spent money on me. I almost fell over. But then the ugly came out again and his sociopathic gas lighting began once he got what he wanted. He was so sweet making all sorts of promises to me. All he wanted was to go to a New Year’s Eve party we were invited to. I was just about over him when I allowed myself to be sucked in once more.
This self-proclaimed sociopath appears to be trying to rid herself of her label even though she admits to being a sociopath. You see when I call my sociopath out he goes crazy and says I am one. I question myself often as my father was a sociopath and perhaps I have some of that in me. This may explain why I was drawn to this man in the first place and then it became a challenge I wanted to win.
Since Thursday I have been on a roller coaster ride of all rides. He covered nearly all his sociopathic behavior in five days. Last week he deliberately called my house knowing I was having my family for dinner. By doing so he cause a great disturbance in my family and a friend. For the most part the month of December was great without him in it. But he used his force and other people’s phones to get through to me. I met him one night and talked for hours and I explained what I needed in a relationship and he just could not give it to me as he has too many issues. He was so charming and convincing. A week went by and we got together again and this time he again was so charming and making all sorts of promises. The next day the roller coaster ride began again. By Saturday I thought I would be rid of him but he turned his charm on again, enough so to earn him another good time out. I can go on but the fact is, he needs to be out of my life for good. Even though I blocked him on Sunday, he showed up pleading with me. I unblocked him and he spent the night. He did not get what he thought he may get and this made him angry by Monday and I was going to pay. Well, I did not take it sitting down and if anyone paid it was him. I was going to change my phone numbers today but is too much a hassle and no sense blocking as he calls by any means he can. All I can do is not answer.
These types do fall under more than one mental illness and mine I believe is in a class all his own.
Happy New Year to you all and wishes for many successes. I am praying I get the strength to no pick up the phone ever again.
I found her post to be very entertaining! I totally get that. When it is at a distance, and there is no chance of harm…they can be fun to ‘watch’.
Yes, that is exactly what I mean. She is so smug, it is laughable. Apparently, she has had a brain scan that led to her psychopathy diagnosis. And, yes, now she is the authority on the subject.
What Athena appears to be referencing is “attachment disorder.” From all I’ve learned here and studying psychology, I’ve come to believe that not all people with attachment disorder are sociopaths; however ALL sociopaths have attachment disorder. If you are interested in attachment disorder, there is a very good movie on the internet called “Child of Rage.” It is based on a true story of how a young girl who had been sexually abused by her father as an infant overcomes attachment disorder through the help of a controversial technique called “holding.” (Later the same therapist used that technique on a similar patient and accidentally smothered her to death.) I found the story a fascinating observation of the extreme effects of early childhood trauma and what is sometimes necessary to recover from it.
The research shows that sociopathy is not something that is caused by abuse or neglect. It appears to be genetic and biologically based. However, I’m sure growing up neglected or abused won’t help. Sociopathy in children is a gray area with many articles written about it here on this site alone. If a child is showing sociopathic tendencies, there is literature on how to help them form different neurologic pathways by teaching them empathy. I think it’s safe to say, however, that if an adult is exhibiting sociopathy, they probably will not ever change and probably cannot be helped (because even if they could, usually they don’t want to).
This is so true and evident.