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By | February 10, 2010 168 Comments

A story. My story. Dancing in the arms of love.

She waited. Patient. Patiently. I’ll wait for you forever, she told him. And so she waited. She waited and waited but still he never came.

She called. Impatient. Impatiently. She called and she called and still he never answered.

She searched. For him. For answers. For hope. And still her hands came up empty.

I am your only hope, he’d told her. I am the one you’ve been waiting for.

And so, she waited. In the dark. Through the dawn. Throughout the day. And still, he never came.

He’d promised to come. Promised to bring her the keys to their new home. The money he owed. He promised to give back the dreams he’d killed. The trust he’d broken. The hopes he’d dashed. Today, he’d promised. Today.

She believed him. She was patient. She had to, believe him. Give him the space and time and support. It was all she could do. She had run out of options. Run out of strength to fight. To make anything else happen.

She waited.

Patient.

Patiently.

And still. He never came.

She started to cry. It had been so long. So long since she could remember a time when fear and shame and self-loathing were not her constant companion.

She prayed. Please, please, somebody make it stop. Somebody come and take away this horror that I am living. Please.

She was patient. Oh so patient.

And still, nothing changed. Nothing ever happened. She stayed locked. Locked up in this hell that was her life. On the outside smiling. On the inside dying.

And nobody could see. Nobody knew the truth.

She was patiently waiting for death to come knocking at her door.

But death was busy. His scythe was slicing through other life-cords. Setting others free to rise up and find their place in that time and plane where all beings unite with the One who lives eternal. That other-world beyond this fearsome world that had become her reality.

She opened her arms to death. Her life-cord remained intact. And she cried.

Please come, she begged. Please come.

But still, he didn’t call.

Her phone remained silent. Her mind screamed in agony. Her body writhed in pain.

Somebody make it stop. Somebody please make it stop.

And all the patience in the world couldn’t awaken her to the truth. Nobody out there could make it stop. Nobody out there could make him go away.

She had to do that. She had to wake up.

And she told herself she couldn’t. She was too frightened. Too weak. Too alone.

Be patient, he said as he held her in the dark. Just a bit longer and then you will see, it was all worth it.

Nothing would ever be worth the terror of his embrace. She knew that. But she couldn’t see it. Feel it. Breathe it. She couldn’t feel. She couldn’t breathe.

She was suffocating beneath the lies. Suffocating in the sea of fear that held her up to the mirror of her shame. She couldn’t see. She was lost in the dark of his embrace.

And so she waited.

And nothing changed except the fear.

The fear engulfed her. The roaring in her head grew louder. She lost all sense of time. Of place. Of being.

She lost.

And fell into the sea of despair that had patiently waited for her to surrender all hope and fall. She fell. She fell and closed her eyes.

Patiently waiting for death to come.

But it never came.

And then, in the dark of despair, the dream of his coming to save her died and she awoke and lost all patience with him.

She lost all patience with his lies, his deceit, his manipulations. She lost all patience with hiding from the truth and found her voice to speak up.

I have run out of patience! She cried. I have no more time for you.

And in her voice she found the courage to speak up. To stand up. To walk away from waiting for him to come and make it all better. For him to sweep his magic wand across the night and raise the dawn. She lost all patience for him and turned her back on waiting.

She turned her back and reached out. Oh God, she cried. Help me.

And He did.

I am here, my child, she heard Him whisper inside her head. She felt the blood flowing in her veins. The warmth of dawn caressing her face. She felt His breath rise and fall within her and she wept. Tears streamed down her face and then she felt a hand upon her brow.

Cry no more, the voice whispered. Cry no more. You are free.

She opened her eyes and saw the wonder of the world around her.

It had been there throughout time. Waiting. Patiently. Waiting for her to open her eyes. To open her ears and heart and mind to the truth within. For her to awaken to the truth of who she was and who she was meant to be. She opened her eyes and her heart beat a wild tattoo of joy upon her breast.

I am free. I am free she whispered to the dawn. And she opened her arms wide and Love flooded in. Love engulfed her. Picked her up and carried her through her fear that what was would be forever more.

Truth is, the voice called out. Truth is. Within you. Always. Always present. Ever patient. Truth is Love and you are your truth. Love yourself. Love your wounded heart. Your battered spirit. Love your beauty and your beast and let yourself surrender and fall, In Love.

And she did.

And Love embraced her.

And she danced forevermore in the arms of Love.

Posted in: M.L. Gallagher

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Ox Drover

Dear Louise,

A very poetic and moving article. How we have all waited with such patience, such pain, for the thing that never came.

In reading through your article, I could so relate to that WAITING, that hoping, that despair, that the “other” would appear and save the day…but it is only, within ourselves, that our savior can come when we reach down inside for the strengths that were always there to save ourselves.

Thank you, Louise, for an, as always, inspiring read! (((hugs)) and God bless.

Ox Drover

Dear Louise,

Thank you for those kind words, you have been my inspiration and when I grow up I want to be just like you! LOL

super chic

Wow. Amen.

pollyannanomore

That about sums it up = waiting in the dark for so many promises, then the fear of getting free and the pain of seeing what we had shut our eyes to in order to stay with him and believe his lies.
Thankyou for writing this – it speaks on many levels. I remember the waiting – his always asking me to ‘be patient’ and for what? Nothing ever came through for me. Nothing ever changed.

Now I struggle to integrate back into life and the long journey of healing is mine alone. He can walk off without a backward glance at the devastation he wreacked because of the nature of what he is. He has no regrets, no sorrow, no shame, no guilt, no burden of anything dark for what he did to me. I carry the load for both of us. And everything to get myself free – I have to do. Unwinding each cord he strangled my soul with. Ripping off his shackles and waiting to see the signs of entanglement and slavery in his new mark. I know it will come as surely as the sun rises each day for he is incapable of change and perhaps that is his curse and my blessing.

Thankyou Louise for sharing your pain and dipping into that dark hole again that those of us aching might find communion and some meaning with you.

PiNOW

Does anyone else think of this as an emotional investment? the more Patience, the more support, the more time we give these beings, the less we want to see and feel the truth about them.
Being a single mother, I thought when the Ex was out of my life, I’d be so devastated and lost. Instead, I found better footing, stronger hold, predictability even and re-discovered sanity.
Oh, I miss him to no end. I know that never will I experience the highs of that relationship again. But, frankly, it’s fine by me. You all are great. As my saga nears its end, I hope to regain control over my life and to not care so much that he is punished. Indeed, Punishment is for those who can experience the remorse. It is no longer a punishment, if the S is dead inside, just a walking dead.would you agree?

pollyannanomore

I agree that there is no revenge we could take that could hurt them … because they are incapable of being hurt like we get wounded. I think they are fearful though of being exposed for what they are … that’s why they discredit us after we end it to other people – put the blame on us and make rumours about our mental health so others won’t be so inclined to listen if we tell the story of what really happened.

You will get a sense of sanity back and relief when it is over … I don’t miss mine – I miss having a companion, but not him. He tried to turn my head inside out and by the end when he knew I KNEW what he was he was hateful and cold and spiteful towards me all the time. So I don’t miss him no – I miss the lost dreams, my lost youth and my faith in humanity – that is taking some time to come back to me. I am deeply wounded by the whole thing.

My saga is coming to an end too soon – he is out of my life and has been for a while. I am still hurt and damned angry about it all. The desire for revenge still surfaces from time to time though I know it is futile ultimately. He is incapable of feeling any of the pain he put me through – if he was capable of pain or empathy he would not have done what he did to me. It was inhuman.

learnthelesson

Louise,

To look long and far for a love so pure and true – that is right in front of us -yet we cant see it until we stop looking outward and look inward, when we are ready to.

The beauty in this story, your story radiates off the computer!

ps. I try to “recover my joy” everyday! Thank you for sharing all that you do.

super chic

I believe it was an emotional investment, giving everything I had, believing I would get that love and support back.
I think “walking dead” is a perfect analogy.

Rosie

That’s lovely.

Midlifecrises..what you said about them telling everyone you’re mentally ill..mine did the same! It is so embarrasing. His new gf told me “she knows I’m unwell and I should think about prozac as it worked for some of her freinds” LOL!!

I said to her of course I’m angry and unhappy (I whacked him in front of her, jsut after I found out that he’d started seeing her while we were trying to ‘give things another go’) but I’m not going to medicate myself to help the pain of being callously betrayed over and over by the man I loved. She doesn’t like hearing that stuff and straight out refuses to beleive anything I say about him..so I have left her to it.

She must be a bit more naive than me because that would have made me run a mile..I guess she truly beleives I’m crazy.

Aah, she will learn what he’s really like in time..when she gets hit with “the bullshit bat”

pollyannanomore

LOL @ the bullshit bat – the phrases and words that get used here crack me up a bit (not mentally of course!)

I haven’t heard it yet blatantly in front of me but I know that’s the tack he’s taken – the rumor mill is in overdrive in my city. They commonly do this discrediting before we start to tell the truth – we just have to find one person who can see we’re not crazy and can tell we are full of the truth – then that one person sets the seeds of doubt in their character – that is if we can be bothered with the whole damned exposure thing.

Why should we warn the next woman? She is probably laughing at us and enjoying gossip with him about how nuts we were and what bad people – perhaps letting them find out for themselves is the best way – they can go through the hell we did in trying to find out what the hell is wrong. I am totally confident he won’t change – I don’t daydream about her having a better time than I did – I know she might right now but her turn will come just as mine did and just as the woman before me – they don’t ever change – they are incapable of it.

Quantum Solace

You girls are so right, of course. Pre-emptive strikes is one of the things these types are well-known for. I have a folder full (which is about an inch thick) of papers the monster has filed with the court recounting [my] “long history of mental illness.” It’s actually kind of commical when one reads it in cronological order and sees the escalation. In 1997, I was “depressed,” in 1988, I was “trying to commit suicide” by 2003, I was already wanted by the FBI. Really! This guy should be collaborating with Albert Broccolis on scripts for James Bond movies. What an imagination! Sadly, the individual has told my children the same exact things he has fabricated and has completed alienated them from me. His “new” wife is now issuing diagnosis of her own and asserts with great conviction that I am suffering from “Bipolar disorders” (her words in court papers, not mine!). While his equally Psychopathic lawyer claims that I am “Bi-polar” (his words not mine!).

As I always say, you just can’t make this stuff up! And still, nobody sees thru the bullshit, the lies and the malice.

learnthelesson

Rosie says :

referring to her ex’s new victim

“Aah, she will learn what he’s really like in time..when she gets hit with “the bullshit bat”

And she will probably go through giving him 3 strikes maybe more until shes OUTTA THERE!!!!

No more 3 strikes you’re out anymore HERE- we are One and Doners now!!! Because we dont tolerate playas with the BS BAT anymore!!!!!!!!!

Good one Rosie! 🙂

Ox Drover

LEARN,

“ONE AND DONERS” Yea! You have come up with the lastest LF MOTTO! Ah, yes! TOWANDA for you and a big Silver Skillet Award for that phrase—it is perfect!!!!!

As I was reading through the letters from my P-son to the Trojan Horse Psychopath, I came across several where he was “diagnosing” my short run of Bell’.s Palsy (where one side of your face droops for a while. I had had this checked out because those can be symptoms of a stroke and had MRIs, CTscans and the works so knew I was OK and it would resolve on its own, which it did) as “brain lesions” and so on based on the fact that I was NO LONGER COOPERATING WITH HIS WHIMS AND DESIRES. He went on and on in the same letters to his dupes (including my egg donor, my son C and the TH-P) about how they were FAMILY and FAMILY was everything, but poor old mom with her brain lesions had to be persecuted because she wouldn’t cooperate with them.

Also, I noticed in the letters to me going back to the first time when he was arrested for robbery, when he wanted something done for him, it was always for US, or WE need to do such and such to benefit US.

Having to go back through all this stuff did trigger me at first, but now I am just sitting here shaking my head in mock disbelief that I ever FELL FOR such dribble!

ONE AND DONE!!!!!

learnthelesson

Oxy –

Even if you had shown him the literature on common causes of Bells Palsy (viral, inflamation of nerve, etc) he probably would have said you made it up!!!

I wish you didnt have to reread those letters. But if you must, Im glad you can do so with a new and improved minds-eye – that is able to see manipulation and unhealthiness in each letter.

Im jumping for joy – my first ever Silver Skillet Award!! Id like to thank the LF Academy visitors for sharing all of their life stories, input, advice and perspectives ..and the 3 greatest influences that inspired me to see I had a choice of how I want to proceed in life and make healthier choices in all of my relationships! – Oxy, Kathy and Louise… thank you! :)))

Ox Drover

darn, Learn, you sound like you are accepting an academy award! LOL

Yea, he was a medical expert all right! It is actually laughable really, he thinks he is an EXPERT in everything there IS. He has spent his entire adult life in prison and that makes him an EXPERT on psychology, finances, and life in general including his MEDICAL NON-DEGREE. LOL

He IS very smart, tested in the 99.9Th percentile from the time he was in gradeschool, but you know, that doesn’t mean jack-schitz if you are so arrogant that you dont’ learn because, why bother, you ALREADY know more than anyone else in the world. LOL

The one thing I can see that he has learned though in his nearly 20 years total in prison is that he can quote the Bible and philosophers in order to con others, BUT it is only “profound” on the SURFACE, if you read it carefully, you can see that he is just using “words” and has ZERO concept of what they actually MEAN.

In one letter he wrote to my DIL (knowing she was having an affair) he wanted to sound SO PROFOUND so he was telling her the affair was OK because her relationship with the TH-P didn’t detract from her relationship with her HUSBAND, because (get this) “when you light one candle from another candle, it doesn’t diminish the light of the first candle.” ROTFLMAO

Then later in the letter, he told her she should “work on her relationship with her husband.” ROTFLMAO

I mean, HOW SHALLOW IS THAT?

So though at first it was painful to go back through these old letters, in the end it is really “cleansing” and reinforces what I already know. It may even be giving me some closure, like lancing and cleaning out a boil on my butt! A painful process but one that will lead to feeling better later!

From looking at this thing as an impossible and huge task I have some order in it now, both physically in the papers and emotionally in my mind! (((hugs)))) We CAN do anything we have to do to protect ourselves. I just have to pound that into my own “thick skull!” Thank you MaryJo B for that reminder. BTW if you haven’t read her book, it is GREAT!!!!

learnthelesson

Oxy –

A silver skillet award is a big deal!!! I wanted to say thanks in a funny way with much seriousness about my appreciation for LF!!! Was just being goofy about it :))

Seems like one trait will be with your son for life– another life sentence — “he just uses “words” and has ZERO concept of what they actually MEAN”

Shallow and hollow…

Anything is possible when we put our minds to it – especially for the betterment of our good health and personal protection! Im glad you have reclaimed a sense of order with what youre dealing with both in a physical sense and in an emotional sense — your strength will always get you there!! xoxo

Ox Drover

Dear Learned! Glad you liked the silver skillet award, cause I sure like the ONE AND DONERS motto!!!

And yes, sometimes we fall of the “horse” and lay oon the ground crying a while, but we DO ahve to get back up and get on that “horse” (or donkey!) and ride! I know that at least as well as anyone, but sometimes I too get triggered and throw a pity party for myself! But TODAY I am OK, and TODAY I am strong, and TODAY I am on the road to healing, and TODAY I will be good to myself and do what I have to do to STAY on the road to healing!

Fex Ex finally got through the snow and delivered my ink cartridge for my printer so I am back in business on printing out things and getting the package read to send off to the attorney!

We’ve come a long way LTL, and we are LEARNING, and we need to keep on learning and practicing our new behaivors and thoughts and keep it between the ditches on the road to healing!

geminigirl

Oxy, Towanda to you girl! Hey, do I get a back dated silver skillet award for the word ,”Spath-bait”?
I still think its a goodie!
more power to your skillet wielding arm!
Much Love,
GemXX

sotired

Amen

pollyannanomore

Louise – did you experience a period of ‘stuckness’ after getting free? Did anyone else? Can people tell me how long it lasted and how they managed to get themselves out of the stuckness and change their lives if they weren’t forced to by circumstance ?

I am reading a book called Trauma and Recovery and there is a long quote about what looks to others and outsiders to be learned helplessness, but in actual fact is internalisation of the abuser inside the target – remember what I said about having an inner P implanted in me?????

“This constriction in the capacities for active engagement with the world, which is common after a single trauma, becomes more pronounced in chronically traumatized people, who are often described as passive or helpless. Some theorists have mistakenly applied the concept of ‘learned helplessness’ to the situation of battered women and other chronically traumatized people. Such concepts tend to portray the victim as simply defeated or apathetic, whereas a in fact a much livelier and more complex inner struggle is usually taking place. In most cases the victim has not given up. But she has learned that every action will be watched, that most actions will be thwarted, and that she will pay dearly for failure. To the extent that the perpetratir has succeeded in his demand for total submission, she will perceive any exercise of her own initiative as insubordination. Before taking any action , she will scan the environment expecting retaliation.

Prolonged captivity undermines or destroys the ordinary sense of a relatively safe sphere of initiative, in which there is some tolerance for trial and error ….any action has the potential for dire consequences. There is no room for mistakes…
….this sense that the perpetrator is still present even after liberation signifies a major alteration in the victim’s relational world. The enforced relationship during captivity, which of necessity monopolizes the victim’s attention, becomes PART OF THE VICTIM’S INNER LIFE AND CONTINUES TO ENGROSS HER ATTENTION AFTER RELEASE … in sexual, domestic and religious cult prisoners, this continued relationship may take a more ambivalent form: the victim may continue to fear her former captor and to expect that he will eventually hunt her down, but she may also feel empty, confused and worthless without him.”(p.91).
Herman, J.L.(1998). Trauma and Recovery. London: Pandora Press.

The book also talks about tracking the activities of the perpetrator over time after release and a brooding engrossment with what they are doing – this relates to what Kathy described as surveillance for protection.

What does everyone think of this? Has anyone else experienced this ‘stuck’ feeling? That they want to do things, but for some reason just can’t???

ErinBrock

Midlife:
Uhhhhh YES!
I was discussing this with a friend recently!

I am wrestling with it…..it’s like I am sabotaging myself….
Depressed or somehting….and it pisses me off!!!
In a way, I’m like my eldest son….oppositional and defiant!
If’ I am asked….I’ll say sure,sure….and state a deadline….and let the deadline go….I’ll get it done…but in the knick of time! And at the lastminute and at MY pace!
I’ve NEVER ever been like this….for christ sake….I’m a personal assistant….I MANAGE others lives….HELLLLOOOOO.
I CAN”T DO THIS!

If I’m pationate about doing something….I’ll whip it right out….gut if not….it’s gets procrastonated!

I HATE THIS…..and it causes a rediculous stress that is SO not necessary!

I need a fire lit under my ass!!!

ErinBrock

I don’t open my mail.
I don’t respond to emails
I don’t pay bills like I used to….
I’m late for engagements….
I push deadlines……
WHY

WHY????

geminigirl

Dearest EB, What your describing is FEAR ,and it stands for FALSE EVIDENCE APPEARING REAL.
Fear isa spirit.Fear can kill you with stress overload.
But its not real, it only gets strength if we feed it.
back to the white wolf and the gray wolf again.
Which one grows?
The one we feed.
PTSD can cause all of your symptoms, I still have it after NC from my spath daughter after 1 year NC.
I think we need to cut ourselves some slack, it took years and years of abuse to get us like this, how come we think we can fix it overnight?!!
Love and Hugs,Gem.XX

one/joy_step_at_a_time

Midlife, YES, YES, AND YES.

I AM ALL FOR ANY DESCRIPTION THAT STARTS WITH ’much livelier and more complex inner struggle is usually taking place’. It’s honouring and validating.

whereas a in fact a much livelier and more complex inner struggle is usually taking place. In most cases the victim has not given up. But she has learned that every action will be watched, that most actions will be thwarted, and that she will pay dearly for failure.

Before taking any action , she will scan the environment expecting retaliation.
OH F*CK, YOU KNOW THIS IS MY LIFE ON BAD DAYS. IT’S THE TANKING, THE FEAR OF MOVEMENT FOR FEAR OF WHAT MOVEMENT MAY BRING. AND I HAVE REASON TO FEEL THIS WAY”CAUSE I HAVE *SO MUCH EVICENCE* THAT THIS HAPPENS. I AM A NATURAL AND EXPEREINCED NETWORKER, I CREATE MY OWN JOBS, I ..I”I”I

”.I HIDE UNDER MY COVERS OR EAT A BIT ALL DAY ‘TIL I AM NUMB, DON’T SEE FRIENDS…AND ON AND ON……

Prolonged captivity undermines or destroys the ordinary sense of a relatively safe sphere of initiative, in which there is some tolerance for trial and error ”.any action has the potential for dire consequences. There is no room for mistakes”YES, YES, YES. AFTER THE BOY WONDER DIED, I FELT LIKE I HAVE NEVER FELT ”“ I JUST GAVE UP ”“ KNOWING WHAT I SO DEARLY WANTED, HAVING SEEN IT FULL ON, MY DREAMS IN FRONT OF MY FACE ”“ THEN RIPPED AWAY FROM ME, EVERY DAY GOT WORSE AND WORSE. I STOPPED TRYING. IT WAS FREEING”.BUT THE STREET WAS GETTING CLOSE”.THEN SHE CALLED AND MY ANGER ROSE UP AND TRIED TO PUSH ME, MOVE ME”.

”.this sense that the perpetrator is still present even after liberation signifies a major alteration in the victim’s relational world. The enforced relationship during captivity, which of necessity monopolizes the victim’s attention, becomes PART OF THE VICTIM’S INNER LIFE AND CONTINUES TO ENGROSS HER ATTENTION AFTER RELEASE ”
OF COURSE THE PERP IS STILL PRESENT ”“ BECAUSE IT WASN’T JUST THE SPATH, BUT THE N FATHER AND THE N GF AND THE SPATH BOSS,—AND THE SPATH POLICITAL/SOCIAL SYSTEMS—”.

Good work midlife. Thank you.
Best,
One step.

Louise, thank you for this beautiful prose poem.

I stopped dead at “I am your only hope, he’d told her. I am the one you’ve been waiting for.” Feeling the sweet, poignant tug of those words, wondering if I was still vulnerable.

And then I thought, I’m supposed to be saying that to ME. I am my only hope. I’m the one I’ve been waiting for.

As always, your writing gives me the chills in the most wonderful way. You wake me up again to truths I need to remember.

BTW, here is a Valentine gift from NPR, the host’s favorite break-up songs, described as “songs of love and loathing.” I haven’t listened to the songs, but my sister, who knows my story (and has her own just like it), says they’re great. And there’s no Bonnie Raitt on the list, so hopefully nothing to make us sad. (Unless Jimmy Durante singing “I’ll Be Seeing You” will do it to you.)

Here’s the URL: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=18950469

Kathy

Regarding the “stall” or the funky plateau, as I usually think about it, I’m beginning to suspect it’s a combination of psychological and physical burn-out, but due to something in particular.

I agree with onestep and gemini and midlife that it’s fear. But fear of what? The logical answer is that we’re still dealing with “bad learning” from the trauma, fear that any action will result in more of that same sort of cosmic whacking that was so painful before. Because this goes beyond the sociopath; it’s like the whole world is a threat now.

But what’s the trigger here?

For me, I keep coming back to a whole series of things he said to me that all came down to the same thing, more or less. No one could possibly love me. No one will ever love me again. There are at least 35 things about me that I have to correct before anyone could even look at me again without gagging. And all of that is impossible to fix because I’m too stupid, too undisciplined, too misguided, too emotionally damaged, and just too much of an all-around loser to even begin to write down the list, much less do anything about it.

That’s a lot of stuff, but it all comes down to one feeling. A kind of ego implosion into shame and insecurity. And if I can get in touch with that feeling, I can work on it. (It’s when these things just float around in our heads while we try to avoid them that they drag us down.)

So, okay, here’s my feeling and I’m going to really feel it. Hopeless. Incompetent. Afraid of anyone seeing me because they’ll see through me and know what a loser I am. I’m slipping right inside of it, and wondering…

Is this my voice talking this stuff? Or did someone else say it to me? If it was someone else, not just him, but the first time I ever felt this way, who was it? Who made me feel like this?

And were they right? Am I really such a big nothing? This might be a good time to go to the mirror, and take a look. Do I really agree with this? Or do I have some little argument in my own behalf I’d like to make. Not grandiose, but just logical.

I’m not Ava Gardner or the President or the winner of the Nobel Prize or the Academy Award, but I’m not nothing. I’ve done some really hard things and finished them. Some real people have loved me, and a lot of real people care about me. My whole life is full of cool stuff I’m doing, and souvenirs of cool stuff I did in the past.

So okay, I’ve screwed up. And other people have screwed up around me, in ways that made me feel bad. But I’ve learned from it, each time, something new that changed my life.

And that’s maybe the important thing about me — when I try, when I just take a chance and try anything, it usually comes out surprisingly well. When I get the nerve to contact someone, they usually are glad to hear from me. When I try to write something, people usually like to read it. When I get away from this computer and go out, the world usually turns out to be prettier and friendlier than I remembered.

Maybe the truth of my life is that I’ve always been a little afraid, always had to push past my fear to do anything. These voices have been in my head as long as I can remember. And maybe now that I’ve gotten better and really think I can do better than I’ve ever done before, those voices have turned up the volume. Or maybe I’m just not so good at denial anymore, and I’m not able to ignore them so much. And so I’m actually going to have to pay attention to them and deal with them, for the first time in my life.

But now, after I’ve gotten better, I’m pretty sure they’re not what I really believe about myself. They’re just a bunch of memories that aren’t particular useful to my current intention to be happy, creative and confident.

So I can just say “Thanks for the input, guys, but I’ve decided I’m going to like myself for the rest of my life, and I’m not actually looking for love or approval from crabby people like you, so you can take a rest.”

And then I can look in the mirror and say, “You can do it, Kathy. You can make a list of what you want to do today. And just try, take your chances of failing, and but it will probably come out okay. There are a lot more people out there rooting for you than people who want you to fail. And I’m rooting for you. So just take a chance and try. It might just turn out to be a good day.”

So that’s what I think my funk plateau is about. I don’t know if that’s true for anyone else, but I wrote down my process in case it’s useful for anyone.

I have a lot of deeply embedded stuff from my father, the bully-coward who was so scared of his kids challenging him that he tried to destroy our will, and my poor beaten down mom who was so bitterly jealous of anyone who had more hope than she did that she was bitingly sarcastic. It’s part of me, just like the good stuff from them is part of me — the intelligence, the aptitudes, the sense of humor, the endurance. My job is to be more aware of my choices than they were, to make the choices about what I accept as “me” and what I don’t from all this inherited noise from them and the nuns and the mass media and the ex-boyfriends.

Thank heaven for psychotherapy and the internet.

hens

Midlife – I am responding to your feeling of stuckedness. I am at 2 years no contact. He was with me 3 years before that. I knew him 2 years before he hooked me. So 7 years of my life have been occupied with him. 4 of those years he has been here in mind only. I think in some form he will always be part of me like it or not. I think that stuckedness or ptsd is more about what he took with him when he left, good and bad. Those dreams, the ideas I had of being in love, of happy ever after are forever gone and changed. Having to look at the world, the reality that he forced on me, good and bad are changed. So maybe it’s not so much stuckedness we feel but change, good and bad. If there was a pill that would erase him from my memory I would sell my home for it, but because of the lessons I have learned, good and bad I am lucky i have a home,,once again I dont think I am making any sense, but time and no contact and someone new will get us unstuck,,,hang in there,,,

Thanks, Louise.

I’m not sure I can do that contract with myself that you do. The self-definition as a “fearless woman.” But I know people who can, and I always admire them. I think I’ll try it. It’s a lot faster than dealing with the noise. Just go for the gold.

Kathy

Ox Drover

Dear Kathy, yyour above post IS AWESOME! I think it is the best thing you have EVER written! Thanks!

Oh BTW Christmas before last my son D and I made a CD of “leaving them” songs, starting off with Charlie Daniels, “Thank God and Graeyhound She’s GONE!” and “these boots are made for walking” and 10 or 12 other great “break up” songs! It is a great CD and very uplifting! Everything from Sinatra to punk rock! So whatever your favorite kind of music there are some great “take that” songs out there. Make you up your own CD and play them whenever you feel down about “missing him/her.”

I’ve been off here for a few hours reading through my P-son’s medical records that he had sent to me a couple of years ago, and guess what!!!!

I found a mental health note that says “ASPD Traits” and another full eval that names every thing from grandiose on to describe a psychopath! YEA!!!!! So my “evidence” is piling up into a large pile! The attorney will have lots of things to use. I also found that he had been lying to the medical providers too, claiming to be a seizure patient in order to get phenobarb, and claiming a motorcycle wreckk and a bad car wreck as a child. He DID have surgery at age 5 months which left a large scar on his skull (his cranial sutures were closed at birth) but he has NO seizures, never had any, never had any motorcycle wreck or car wreck! LOL

In reading through these records in detail I saw how he was using anyting he could to manipulate his situation, from what jobs he could get to what jobs he could not “do” because of his supposed seizures! LOL I LOVE IT! WHAT A PORTRAIT of a manipulator. He even used my son C’s step son’s (that he had never met or communicated with) illness from MD and subsequent death to get a different housing unit because the “noise” in the other area made his GRIEF worse! LOL ROTFLMAO Yet there were some of the medical and MH staff there that DID GET IT and I have documentation that they did, but only one mention of AXIS II (the cluster B area of the diagnosis sheet) ASPD “Traits” but enough for “government work” so I think at least I have that much and with the other documents, I think I can make a case that he is “Charlie Manson” if they let his arse out! DEEP BREATH here!!!! (Feel weight of the world lifting off my back!)

Some great stuff here on LF today too! Thank you all for your wonderful contributions!!!

ErinBrock

Oxy:
What you discovered is the whole reason why your looking through these old docs!
It is just so valuable to do what your doing, to succeed in your goal…..present your case….
look, dig deep and keep on going girl!

Sometimes the most valuable information in right where we may have looked before!!!!

This is another example of why we should hold on to every scrap…..we just NEVER know what tidbit will be just the piece we need!!!

We learn, change and grow ……then we go back and see things we never wouild have seen before!

He may just develop a siezure disorder when he’s DENIED parole!!!

Thanks for sharing this info….I so remember several nights of ‘recon’ and going through stuff…..just to discover and feel this same feeling….HA!

I had boxs of year end stuff from the 80’s….before we were married….with bank statements,letters etc…of the S.
Those 19 year old bank statements were vital in proving that the vacation home was NEVER purchased by him……and I could prove he had NO MONEY!!!! For years!!!
I wrote the checks from my account, I paid utilities, taxs,mtgs……..he NEVER contributed…..so it proved it was NEVER community property….these banks were LOOOOONnNnnng out of business…..and no way I could acquire this info otherwise….
I keep a file box from every year….not big….doesn’t take a lot of space….and just shove them under the stairs…..with the year marked on them…..that’s it…..then you rarely ever look at em again….UNLESS……you need to!

SO….let this be a lesson…..keep it all folks….it’s just paper and it doesn’t take up much room…..you JUST never know!

Goooooo OXY!

pollyannanomore

Erin I heartily second you on keeping paperwork – I had it all filed year by year – no chance of arguing with it and he knows it. I kept every year intact and can find things from the start the middle or the end.

Thanks everyone for your illumination and thoughts on the concept of ‘stuckness’. I asked because I am suffering quite badly from it at the moment and never had before I met him. I seem to keep doing the bare necessities to tick by with life, but can’t muster up the energy to do more. I realise it is a FEAR definitely. I don’t hear a clear voice when I experience it so I can’t attribute it to a particular message from a particular person, but when I feel the feeling of being stuck on contemplating doing something new, the black cloud descends and sucks me into its vortex.

I used to get really enthused about doing things – especially if they were new or challenging. I loved learning about new ways to try things, now I will do endless research but not actually do that which needs doing. That said – the maintenance of life as it is takes up ALL day – I am not lazy by any stretch of the imagination, but I am just wondering where that vital energy has gone and what is happening with me.

Do you just naturally move out of it? Do you have to analyse it and tell it to pith off each time it comes up? Do you have to force yourself to move?

The book doesn’t divulge the answer to that. I am at the section on treatment and how the therapist should engage in relationship with someone who has been traumatised – it’s an excellent read. The author proposes a diagnosis of ‘complex post traumatic disorder’ for those who have been in endless captivity and wounded on a regular basis and I think since publication many yrs ago this term has been somewhat normalised. I am not a fan of leaning on crutches, but it helps me to understand that this is a normal cluster of ‘after effects’ from a highly toxic and harmful relationship – there’s something comforting in seeing a list of symptoms I can relate to. I can’t quite explain it but I have thought previously ‘well you’re just f$%#ed now and that’s all there is to it’. To understand that there is a healing path from this constellation of oddities is good 🙂

I like the idea of little slogans I can say to myself to pep myself up but to be honest they don’t work. I am sure if it could be measured I would have about fifty percent of the energy I used to have – my health is fine too – already checked that. I mean mental energy for changing things. This ennui is all encompassing at the moment. I am going to qualify it by saying ‘it is for now’ – maybe it just wants me to pay some real attention to it so it can go? Maybe rather than fighting it I need to accept it for now – would that work perhaps?

Erin – I can so relate to the lateness. I am pushing it in every way I can. I set a time to meet a friend and am consistently late each time. I used to always be early – I was known for it. What is going on here? I pay the bills because his behaviour with bills frightened me but if I hadn’t had that I am sure I would be the same with those. EVerything is put off till the last minute. I don’t understand it.

One step – thankyou for spelling out what fits for you right now. I am the same with wanting to just stay in bed or pick at food all day and lounge around the house. I used to be full of energy and a mover and a shaker = WTF???

Kathleen – thankyou for outlining your process and identifying fear as the basis of it. The more I thought about the statement re scanning the environment because anything I did had been thwarted the more memories that came up. He would sabotage anything I tried to plan or do – he would always spoil it in some surprise way that I couldn’t see coming. And if I took actions on my own I was ridiculed and criticised for the mistakes I made in doing them – I couldn’t win so I stopped trying for a long time. And now that I want to try, I lack the energy, impetus, attitude and knowhow. It’s so frustrating.

Is there a resource we could collectively develop to get through these common stages? I would be really keen to contribute to developing something from what we have all learned to help others – a workbook of some kind I am thinking perhaps with a CD of relaxation and guided visualisation techniques… would anyone else be interested in doing something like this???

one/joy_step_at_a_time

I made a valentine’s card ”“ a place where we can write love: http://lfvalentinescard.blogspot.com/

one/joy_step_at_a_time

midlife – i would be interested in making contributions. and creating a process for education also.

pollyannanomore

Louise – I like that saying Avoidance strengthens fear. I can also relate to the circular thinking of asking why? Maybe that’s part of why this is coming up for me at the moment. It’s almost like hitting a glass wall – you can see clearly through it what you want on the other side, but you can’t get to it and don’t know why.

I did take on the ‘fearless’ woman idea for a spell and got a couple of things done but it burned out – maybe the negativity swamped it or I wasn’t good enough at keeping the fearless image at the forefront.

Gemini – you are right – I am expecting miracles!!!It did indeed take yrs to get here – I just don’t want to live through any more pain. I had this image that when I got rid of him life would be radically different … and it is in some ways, but not how I expected it to be.

pollyannanomore

Awesome One Step = I am thinking a guided path through the recovery of toxic relationships – something that outlines common symptoms we have had and leaves space for people to write their own stories 😀 Let’s have a think over the weekend about what it might look like 🙂

Thanks, Oxy. That means a lot to me.

I’m reading your posts about seeing the old stuff through new eyes. And now putting together things that will really make your case. I’m so glad for you.

Kathy

one/joy_step_at_a_time

midlife – i am remembering a line i read once – that depression was suppressed anger, and relating that to what kathleen said about writing out the resentments.

one of the things i expereince is that i can’t stand for things to be as difficult as they are. can’t stand the lack of affect i have on the world. for example – i do a ton of work to get a job, and don’t get it. this has to do with the economy here, and i am getting better at continuing and trying for the next job – but i get a bit more desparate, as I see my timeline shrinking. it is anxiety brought on by a fear of/ experience of lack of real world resources. and i see my sense of self worth erode when the world is not open to me. that’s how i internalize not succeeding.

now maybe it is one of those things, one of those great stories wherein the heroin discoveries that she is just rying to make the wrong things happen and uncoveries her true calling and the sky opens. and truthfully i want to believe that. but i also want to pay next months rent, and that is more important.

tonight I showed a friend my folder of ‘job search’ over the last three years. he went, ‘yikes!’

i have written so many resumes, puled and pinched and shaped my experience so many times, i don’t know what the truth is anymore.

i am not good with overload. i am sick. i am rambling, not connecting the dots i wanted to. i am going to bed.

night night

one/joy_step_at_a_time

midlife – um, my timeline is a little longer than yours 🙂

pollyannanomore

One step – you hit a nail on the head with that statement –

can’t stand the lack of affect i have on the world.

This is something I am struggling with too – the experience with the P really tore down my assumptions about how powerful I was in reality. I believed before I met him that I could do anything and everything. Being caged by him broke those assumptions and let me see how little I really am in the big scheme of things. It makes me feel powerless.

I hope you sleep well and feel better soon. I will hold both you and the job search in my ‘good thoughts’ and prayers – you have lots of people here cheering for you 🙂

geminigirl

Looks like weve all been going thru old stuff, {as Oxy is to find out more about her son in jail.} I printed out the entire section of “Profile of theSociopath, -the Kleckley and Hare definitions,and my spath daughter ticks EVERY SINGLE BOX!its totally uncanny!Its all there,Manipulative Conning,Pathological Lying, Lack of remorse,shallow emotions,lack of Shame and Guilt,, Incpacity for Love,Callousness, lack of empathy, Poor behavioural control,Early behavioural Problems. Juvenile delinquency,Parasitic Lifestyle,Criminal activity,Narcisistic and Grandiose,does not perceive anything is wrong with them,paranoid, unable to hold down a job for longer than a year,lack of realistic life plan,Irresponsibility,
failure to meet financial obligations, YES YES YES!!! This is HER!! and more!!It goes on to say they have no consciense, no capacity for remorse, condition cannot be treated, and if it is, they usually end up winning over the therapist, pass lie detector tests.It ends by saying,”The only thing to do is move on!”It also says that it now appears to have genetic causes, and that the Spath does not always have to have had a bad background asa child, in fact it says it doesnt seem to make any difference to their behaviour as adults., how they were raised.She ticks every single box!! And she will NEVER EVER CHANGE!!How clear is that!!Like Oxy, I am having to finally bury that dear litle girl, and realise, finally that she is dead and GONE and she aint coming back. This is the plain unvarnished truth, my adult daughter is a horrible person,she does NOT love me, she is totally indifferent to me,{so is her spath sister,} and NOTHING i did or did not do would have made a ny difference.”The truth will set you free, but first it will piss you off! How true! Im getting stronger the longer I stay NC with her and her sister. Even looking at her pics in facebook triggered me again. Curiosity killed the cat! Its so hard to cut off your own flesh and blood, but fo my own survival, mentally emotionally and financially, I know I CANT see her or contact her again.very hard to do.Much Love to all you brave, courageous people in LF, who are dealing with all of this one day at a time. TOWANDA, Guys! And Love, Gem.XX

Cat

ML, beautiful post that says it all, from beginning to end! I could feel what you were writing with each word and understood it all. Thank you for sharing something that came straight from the heart.

midlife, YES and YES! I’m in that period of “stuckedness” at times, not making a move unless it’s absolutely required of me and that’s only because I have a son who needs his mother. For others, I kind of just “step out” for awhile.
As I write this, I’m thinking to myself that I am listening to a voice that comes from a worthless piece of humanity who has done nothing but hurt and take from others. THAT is a valid source of information and knowledge? An inspirational source? I don’t think so. I think my new slogan will be, “Anything he could do, I can do better.” And I can! The difference is, I do it in the REAL world. He just does it in his head.

EB, As I said, I’ve had those feelings, but when I follow the trail and dig deep, I find the source and it’s only a voice from the path. I also like FEAR stand for: FACE EVERYTHING AND RECOVER. And by damn, I will! We all will!

Mine has been trying to play games with our son. He had someone call here asking to have my son call him because he was sick with a virus. Now, my ex spath LOVES to be sick. He gets attention(he thinks) and somehow that means everyone else is going to want to give him what he wants. Somehow, the world is going to forget all that he’s done and he will actually turn right around and expect those he’s taken from to give him the most attention. NOT. He asks our son for FOOD. I’ve already started the process of him only being allowed supervised visitation and this is why. I did NOT fall for this and when the call was over (60 seconds), I calmly explained to my son that his father had money and could get food, that the food here was for those who lived here and for those who really did NEED food.

one-step, I’ve read the same about depression and anger and right now, I’m in the anger over the stupid things he’s doing. HE doesn’t know this because I don’t show him.
can’t stand the lack of affect i have on the world-yes, this fits those periods when I do nothing to a T. Even when I AM doing something and feel like I’m banging my head against the wall, I feel like this at times. I have to remind myself over and over again that I AM making a contribution to this world, I have a place on this earth for a reason and I’m one of God’s children.

For those who have children and MUST have contact with one of these #$%^^’s, I have found a direct correlation between the days when he has called here and my feeling lousy all over again and the days when he doesn’t. I feel far more empowered, happy and free. I don’t know if anyone else has experienced this, but I’ve documented feelings and what not and found there is a direct link. My “stuckedness” comes in far more when there’s been contact, if only seeing his number come up on my phone. As for a picture-GAG.

Cat

ML. Thank you once again! I just read the following and I love it! Good points too. It all goes back to the fear of facing ALL of what we are at that given moment.
For me, the ‘stuckness’ is often preceded by a fear of something ”“ and often that fear is based on my misconception that I am powerless.

so I have a contract with myself it is: I am a fearless woman.

one/joy_step_at_a_time

I made a valentine’s card ”“ a place where we can write our wishes for growth, life and love: http://lfvalentinescard.blogspot.com/

please spread the word.

best,
one step

Matt

Hi, All:

A variation on the “keep everything because you never know when you’ll need it.”

Yesterday I was cleaning out some drawers when I came upon a cache of photos, cards, mementos, etc of S-ex. As I flipped through them I felt sadness initially — especially when I came to the Valentine’s Day card which said on the front “Because of You I’m a better man” and inside said “Thank you for being the best part of my life.” I felt so sad.

And then I realized that sadness wasn’t the right emotion and I kept digging.

Up next was a stash of emails which I had printed out chronologically. There were the first ones from early August written in French (with translations), loaded with flattery. The print outs stopped abruptly with one dated October 1, 2007.

Looking back, I must have realized on some level that something was already wrong with the picture. You see, that email was his half-assed explanation (not apology) on why he stood me up for a date the previous night. Apparently he had gone to a party in Jersey City and gotten tanked. In the process he apparently left his cell phone there. Somehow he got back to NYC and had spent the day dying of his hangover.

The fact that he wasn’t supposed to be drinking since he was on parole, having only been released from prison less than 3 months earlier escaped him. The fact that he wasn’t supposed to leave the state (NY) without his probation officer’s permission (yes, NY to NJ qualifies) escaped him. And the fact that he lost his cell phone was no excuse and he should have hauled his sorry ass off the sofa and walked to the 2 blocks to my place to cancel in person or looked up my building’s phone number and called my doorman and asked him to deliver the message to me escaped him.

Apparenly it didn’t escape me. Because I came across a bill from the bar at the Ritz Carlton where I had summoned him the following night because we had to talk.

That was the night where I ignored my initial gut feeling that something was off. That was the night where I proceeded to ignore a whole parade of red flags. How he told me about how he got addicted to drugs after his mother was rendered brain-dead after a stroke (lie, long-time user). How he had just been released from prison 3 weeks before we met (in a bar) and how he didn’t want to bring the problems of being an ex-con had to my doorstep (pity play). And, of course, how he loved me (the hook).

And I fell for it.

I kept digging and I saw how, now that he had me hooked, how the dynamic changed in our relationship. There was the receipt for the dozen roses I sent him the next day. There was the receipt for the blackberry and 2 year contract I bought him the next week (I also remembered how 2 weeks later he traded it in for chump change so he could get an iphone). Then I tripped across photos taken at the engagement party of a couple he was friendly with which were taken a few days before New Year’s Eve 2007.

Those photos signaled the dawn of full-fledged assault by him. The friend’s asked us if we wanted to go down to New Hope to celebrate the holiday. He told them we’d love to. A few days later, they had made all the arrangements, but couldn’t reach him to confirm. I was hesitant, but they reminded me that he said he wanted to do this, so I gave them the go-ahead and said if we couldn’t go I’d cover our share of the expenses.

Once we got to the inn his behavior became abominable and I was his verbal punching bag. When his friends set up the jacuzzi for S-ex and I (candles, flowers, etc) to celbrate our 6 month anniversary, he was nasty as hell to me when I tracked him down and lit into me about even telling them about the 6 months. He wrecked the holiday.

More receipts, more photos, more mementos. All these little things I saved from the moments he was “nice” to me. A baggie with a rose in it which he took off a restaurant table and gave to me. An empty chocolate box. A piece of wrapping paper. I began to feel so pathetic.

Then I came across my wake up call — the airline ticket bill for the trip to Greece. That damned trip to Greece. That trip will go down in history to rival other great disasters in history — the Chicago fire. The sinking of the Titanic. The massacre of the Hugenots. Greece. Where we arrived and he promptly ripped off my neighbor’s villa. Where I paid for everything. Where I got nothing from him except grief. I got angry.

Then I grabbed the whole lot and tossed it in the fireplace and burned it all.

So, the moral of this story is hold onto whatever information you think you’ll need in court or in your dealings with your S-ex. But, anything that is purely emotional in content, get rid of it. You don’t need the triggers.

blueskies

I agree Matt.

I dont know how this will come across out of the blue, but this is the e-mail correspondance with – as Oxy says – my ‘egg doner’ (ED)just before I went NC in July.

I think I still need someone ELSE to see it:( – I am having such trouble with the enormity of how I feel about everything (after the sociopath)…so I apologise for the personal and crazy essay that is about to ensue…:(

I think I would also appreciate brutal honesty from anyone who wishes to comment.x

This woman, my mother, Has a TRAIL of broken lives, disordered and abandoned children (6 grandchildren that ‘didnt exist’), a history of heroine dependancy, violence towards her spouse and children FACT. has been supported her entire life by the old family wealth (and them not wanting to air ‘dirty laundry’)and wears the face of the perfect middle class woman.
___________________________________________________________________________________________
(Blue) My personal problems apart (and yes I AM aware that I am severely depressed aand a bit off base) I would really like to find a way to sort out our underlying issues with each other.

I love you both very much, but just not able to cope (and never have been what ever my social or mental state) with the ‘family dynamic’, I would love to change it so that it is easier just to ‘be’ with each other.

I find the shifting goal posts and double standards we display with each other, painful and confusing. I wish here was a way to iron them out for good.

I think I would like to know ( properly and respectfully not an excuse for a slanging match) what your expectations of me are as a sibling and as a daughter. I don’t know HOW to be in order to gain your affection or approval or if I ever truly could.

I would really like the opportunity to talk candidly and without anger and lots of understanding about this stuff.

I can tell you about things from my perspective too, but for that to be in anyway useful, it cannot be disregarded, devalued, or written off as paranoia.

Our expectations of each other, and habits of treatment of each other are really out of balance and causes (me at least) an awful lot of pain on a daily basis.

I would like to hear your thoughts about how these things,that have been going on for so long, can be resolved once and for all.(oooh I can hear the response coming… we just dont want YOU ***** it’s all your doing, becuase YOU are NASTY! lol! – I hope I dont get that, it would just about finish me off!;)

*Blueskies*
_____________________________________________________________________________________________
Dear ******,

It just seems to me that I am loving and ‘normal’ and kind and supportive to you all the time no matter what, and you are occasionally extremely unpleasant, accusatory, jealous, aggressive etc etc often out of the blue. It is pretty awful to experience and always shocks me out of thinking of you as my wonderful daughter and friend – and reminds me of your darker and meaner side.

Familily dynamic or what – this is surely up to you to stop being nasty and aggresssive out of the blue for no reason.

And for the record, ***** is not ganging up with me to do whatever to you. When I am with ***** the conversation is about ******’s interests and the baby – you are not really discussed except if an arrangement has been made or as part of a conversation about something nice we did together.

I have not read your e-mail properly – but I will. I do find it annoying that you can be hurtful and nasty to people well me anyway – and not take any responsibility for your selfishness.

It’s all about you you you all the time. You are the only person who is suffering – no matter what jewels good times are bestowed on you, they should always have been some other thing bestowed some other way at some other time etc etc. Gift horse/mouth all the time. Perhaps you should look at how cruel you are to those around you.

I don’t know what you are talking about when you say shifting goal posts as there are no personal goals set for you from my direction – goals are about personal things and work etc so that is your domain. Ditto double values. What on earth do you mean. I am pretty straight down the line always and have always been an adherent to the ‘right way’ and the ‘truth way’ in life, not being a game player at any time. How absurd that you should think that I play some kind of daft game with my life, it makes me realise that you do not know me at all.

Perhaps it is true that you just use people, and get mad when they will not jump when you say jump.

Your accusations and fantasies regarding my motives anyway are paranoid – there is no doubt of that – as they are a miserable distortion of the reality and usually rather vicious too.

If the cap fits wear it. We are all capable of being paranoid and I read in last week’s papers that 37% of the population are paranoid to a greater or lesser degree – so it is not unusual. Paranoia misreads reality however and attrubutes intent/hurt where there is none. In this way it is unfair, untrue and in some ways even immoral. To accuse a good and decent person of malicious intent is profoundly unkind.

I am sorry you are suffering, but you have doled out a lot more suffering to other methinks.
But other people’s suffering are not as big or important as yours are they.

Nothing happened last time we wer together except that you got nasty because I was sympathetic with you, when you probably were looking more for a row and reasons to kick off. It did not take you long to come up with a good ‘kicking off’ reason. You were the angry one. I was just verbally beaten up and yet again utterly bemused.

How am I supposed to be the one to bow to some wierd notion that its alright for you to be unpleasent to me and that it must all be my fault for saying or doing something that is not utterly to your liking. Your liking seems to change from minute to minute and word to word, so anything said at all is bound to offend in some way isn’t it.

i can’t win in this, and being like anyone else in that I do not like nastiness in any form, then I have to get out of the way when I am told to leave etc.

Is is worth the bother? I can promise you here and now that I will not change from the person I am as I think I am kind, helpful, tolerant and sensitive to needs. I am glad I am like that, but do not like being ‘beaten up’ on a whim.

——————————————————————————————–
(Blue) Okay, well I was hoping NOT to get an abuse filled reply☺x

I am not acusing anyone of anything, I am trying to find a way to sort things out between the three of us in a civil and meaningful manner. Without insults or blaming or finger pointing, playing people off, back biting, its all gone on too long, for as long as I can remember life!

I DO take responsibility for my own behaviour and sincerely apologise ( and have) for the times I have been so angry that I have lashed out unfairly.

What you have said here is once again above and beyond, and it is a shame that this dynamic (this is not a laughable statement is it?) is something that could go on forever.

I will not waste time and open myself up to further hurt by asking the specifics of what you see as my cruelty to those around me, how I have used you, what jewels and good times have been bestowed that i have not been grateful for, even if , I believe it would help me to know, I really cannot take much more.
——————————————————————————————————–

The language you use here is SO hurtful it takes my breath away.
am sorry, I know I said I wouldnt, but I feel compelled to answer your statements,I cant let you hurt me like this without saying something…

(ED)Dear *****,

It just seems to me that I am loving and ‘normal’ and kind and supportive to you all the time no matter what, and you are occasionally extremely unpleasant, accusatory, jealous, aggressive etc etc often out of the blue. It is pretty awful to experience and always shocks me out of thinking of you as my wonderful daughter and friend – and reminds me of your darker and meaner side.

(Blue)I feel that it is you who is unable to take responsibility for your actions if you think you have spent your whole life being kind and supportive to us all.

My darker and meaner side? I see this as nothing more than extremely abusive language designed to hurt and belittle me, when I have asked and hoped that we could talk without such abuse.

Out of the blue suggests no preceding factors… are you seriously telling me that everything has been just hunky dory and I get upset ‘out of the blue’? or are you just trying to deny my right to disagree with you or to feel angry… because that is called emotional abuse.

(ED)Familily dynamic or what – this is surely up to you to stop being nasty and aggresssive out of the blue for no reason.

(Blue) You are seriously saying that the years and years of problems in our family have been because I wasn’t being ‘good’? And because I am nasty? Me alone? (wow I MUST be evil)

(ED)And for the record, *sister* is not ganging up with me to do whatever to you. When I am with *sister* the conversation is about sisterss interests and the baby – you are not really discussed except if an arrangement has been made or as part of a conversation about something nice we did together.

(Blue)I have not mentioned a word about you and ***** ganging up, this is called PROJECTION, and it is is exactly the kind of attempt at manipulation that I am sick to near death of.

ED*I have not read your e-mail properly – but I will. I do find it annoying that you can be hurtful and nasty to people well me anyway – and not take any responsibility for your selfishness.

(Blue)I feel that this is devaluing my attempt at sorting things out and my email in order to perpetuate the problems. I believe that I am taking responsibility by trying to sort the problems out. I AM willing to take responsibility for the way I have behaved that has hurt people, but I do not want to be a scapegoat.

(ED) It’s all about you you you all the time. You are the only person who is suffering – no matter what jewels good times are bestowed on you, they should always have been some other thing bestowed some other way at some other time etc etc. Gift horse/mouth all the time. Perhaps you should look at how cruel you are to those around you.

(Blue) This is also called PROJECTION, If you think I have been cruel to the people around me, I want specifics.

I want specifics of those gift horses I looked in the mouth, and how you KNEW how ungrateful I was…I cannot remember being ungrateful for anything. Specifics, not sweeping statements… I need to know why you all hate me so much.

Yes I am suffering. I am by no means expecting to be the only one on the planet, , but yes I AM suffering…!

ED*I don’t know what you are talking about when you say shifting goal posts as there are no personal goals set for you from my direction – goals are about personal things and work etc so that is your domain. Ditto double values. What on earth do you mean. I am pretty straight down the line always and have always been an adherent to the ‘right way’ and the ‘truth way’ in life, not being a game player at any time. How absurd that you should think that I play some kind of daft game with my life, it makes me realise that you do not know me at all.

(Blue) okay, fair enough… maybe they’re not games.

Perhaps it is true that you just use people, and get mad when they will not jump when you say jump.

(Blue)Please be specific, I have used you in WHAT way? I told you I wanted to talk about our expectations, if I have expections of you above and beyond that of my mother then they need adjusting…be specific( and vice versa)

(ED)Your accusations and fantasies regarding my motives anyway are paranoid – there is no doubt of that – as they are a miserable distortion of the reality and usually rather vicious too.

Blue*I think this is using nasty abusive terms and it hurts me.

(ED)If the cap fits wear it.

(Blue)I feel that this is another extremely nasty statement.

(ED)We are all capable of being paranoid and I read in last week’s papers that 37% of the population are paranoid to a greater or lesser degree – so it is not unusual. Paranoia misreads reality however and attrubutes intent/hurt where there is none. In this way it is unfair, untrue and in some ways even immoral. To accuse a good and decent person of malicious intent is profoundly unkind.

(Blue)I did not mean to be unkind, I was trying to sort things out, and cannot find in my initial e-mail where I accuse you of hurtful intent, but if you want to know, yes I do feel that you have done some very unkind things over the years. It is not my paranoia, it is REAL hurt to people. but maybe you did not intend to.

ED*I am sorry you are suffering, but you have doled out a lot more suffering to other methinks.

(Blue)Again – specifics please!… The tone of this mail seems to convey to me that you are not at all sorry for my suffering, rather that you resent it, so I dont think that was the language to use, unless you were being sarcastic…?

ED*But other people’s suffering are not as big or important as yours are they.

(Blue)Tell me of your suffering, and tell me of a time when you have told me and I have been unsympathetic…specifically…

(ED)Nothing happened last time we wer together except that you got nasty because I was sympathetic with you, when you probably were looking more for a row and reasons to kick off. It did not take you long to come up with a good ‘kicking off’ reason. You were the angry one. I was just verbally beaten up and yet again utterly bemused.

(Blue)I feel that you are devaluing me by saying nothing happend, it DID, I simply will not have you sitting there complaining about *daughter* or the way *sister * is dealing with the baby( oor her complaining about you or wish to complain about you her or *daughter*) anymore!. I told you before on your Birthday.

ED*How am I supposed to be the one to bow to some wierd notion that its alright for you to be unpleasent to me and that it must all be my fault for saying or doing something that is not utterly to your liking. Your liking seems to change from minute to minute and word to word, so anything said at all is bound to offend in some way isn’t it.

(Blue) Nope, only the offensive things offend.

I have no notion at all of it being ‘alright’ for me to be nasty to people.

(ED) can’t win in this, and being like anyone else in that I do not like nastiness in any form, then I have to get out of the way when I am told to leave etc.

(Blue)There is nothing to win.

I am glad you left, I was not wanting to sit and listen to you going on about how dissapointed with Daisy you were for a moment longer.

(ED) Is is worth the bother? I can promise you here and now that I will not change from the person I am as I think I am kind, helpful, tolerant and sensitive to needs. I am glad I am like that, but do not like being ‘beaten up’ on a whim.

(Blue)Neither did we.

No Narcissists do not change, they are incapable, of seeing that they have ever done anything wrong and will forever walk around in the illusion that they are nothing but kind, helpful, tolerant and sensitive to needs.

Life is unbearable.

– Show quoted text –
(ED)I am very sorry I tried.

(Blue)Regarding on the phone right now; you said that the fact that you hit me as a cild was a DISGUSTING LIE? but that you were TOLD to do it by others that anyway I ENJOYED IT????!!! I did not ‘enjoy’ being beaten as a child!!!! That is by far the SICKEST thing I have ever heard you say. I wonder if YOU’LL ever appologise for it oh – kind giving and NORMAL (?????) one?

(ED) If you remember correctly.
You were the one doing all the biting beating and hurting to others, including the welfare visitors (x2) and the psychiatrist (senior consultant) at Selly Oak. Plus everyone else when you were in a temper.
I most certainly did not ‘beat’ you as you know too well, but occasionally smacked you in precicely the way I was advised to – but it did not work so I gave it up as you seemed to actually enjoy it. It was like you had wanted some kind of reaction other than kindness, as you just bit and scratched people who hugged you or tried to comfort you.

The physhciatrist said you were highly self interested, not caring of damage to others and property but enjoyed being the centre of a drama. He said that you were ‘a proper little madam’ and that he was ‘sorry’ for me as you had inherited a ‘personality defect’. I was disgusted with his diagnosis, but all the following advice from medics were along the lines that you should be punishedand osracised for bad behaviour and praised for good – carrot and stick. *****infants had to be talked round after your attack on the headmistress, and upsetting of staff and pupils generally.
The advice I was given was that I should religiously ignore all your screaming etc physically pick you up, and put you in a room or place by yourself until you stopped kicking and screaming. If you bit or scratched I should smack you on the legs or bottom. This was useless as you would break everything and damage the doors, walls, people etc, and it really upset me to think that there was somthing so wrong with you.

considering the damage you did to me ( I had around 8 years worth of bruising and bites to my body) and to supermarkets shops etc where you would try to pull down displays, break stock up etc, you had a pretty easy time. I was always the one to carry you home and I was the one to get all the bashes.

I see you have forgotten all this. And all the way through I was so worried about your ability to learn at all, your ability to get on with other children, with staff, with the family. So many ‘friends’ said that you were spoiled, or trying to get attention and they did not understand why I so called ‘let you get away with it’ all the time. I really really wanted you to be aware of others and your responsibilites regarding our own behaviour. I really wanted you to have a normal happy life, not be a frightening self centred monster.

So maybe you are remembering now how hard everyone worked to include you, to forgive you, to prevent ‘fireworks’ all the time. You got your education, you ended up with talents required for self sufficiency, but all the time being angry and dissatisfied with everything. You were given the stars and the moon but you obviously prefer darkness and conflict.

As the nasty psychiatrist said at the time’ you would drain your family’s emotions and there would be no rewards at the end of the day. He said you may grow out of your behaviour pattern but that it was unlikely – hea had seen it all before.

Dr —— on the other hand said he had every belief that you would become better self controlled as you matured and that you would ‘grow out of’ your tantrumming behaviour as you realised it brought no social or personal rewards.

But here you are at ** still trying to make trouble for everyone and still blaming everyone and still reveling in your own misery and malfunction. The tragedy is that all you family are dragged into this all engrosing activity of yours and everyone is made to feel bitten and bashed continually to please your appetite for hatred and anger.

You are obviously capable of being kind, thoughtful, wise and considerate – why not try to keep it up for longer periods of time. You have such a good intellect and have so much talent. It is about time this nastiness stopped and gave way to a decent, uncomplicated, unspiteful, honest you.

(Blue)This shows you up for what you are.

The wording you use here is SICK.

I have a child with ADHD, who had a LOT of trouble settling into school and adjusting, settling down, shouts out, has temper tantrums that are off the chart, had me in tears not going to bed and up untill 12 on a work night, and it is tough I can tell ya, but believe me, the day I talk about him or to him like this is the day hell freezes over.

I am, in a way, glad that you put this in writing,

So with all these health professionals involved, there was some kind of diagnosis right? This ‘personality defect’ – was what exactly? What treatment did I get (apart from ‘smacking’ until I liked it)? Do you have the names of said professional who advised you to hit us?…..

Worried about my ability to learn? What action did you take?

Dont you dare tell me that your violence towards us is a fantasy of mine one more time.

Let alone trying to scapegoat little girls (which is so beautifully illustrated in your previous mail) THE absolute WORST part of your abuse is your COMPLETE DENIAL of it and TOTAL lack of remorse.
– Show quoted tex
_____________________________________________________________________________________________

Dear *****

I doubt if you were ever abused by anyone. You had a lot of attention and love when you were little. Nobody who was close to you wanted to label you or cause you embarrassment. They just did their best to help you, to comfort you and to try to prevent you being in destructive rages all the time.
I think in the main that you were the main ‘abuser’ around if an innocent but troubled child can be called such. Most people are committed to doing their very best for an unhappy child as it is terrible to witness destructive behaviour. In spite of the comments of shopkeepers, outsiders and people not in the know, the effort to improve an unhappy child’s life is always worth it at the end of the day.

If this is your latest favourite flight of fantasy to enjoy feeling put upon, or to blame everyone for imagined misdemeanors then go ahead and enjoy. I am used to being verbally abused by you and it no longer shocks me or hurts me as deeply as I am sure you would like. It is just sad that you never count your blessings or realise how loving people are and how hard they have worked towards your happiness and independance.

Good luck in your world of self pity and cruelty to others.

____________________________________________________________

This is now going in the trash and the trash is being deleted.

Whether it IS me or not – I am no longer going to try to sort it out with ED.

🙁

Matt

blueskies:

It’s all there, the circular logic, the word salad, the manipulativeness and the pity play.

Trash it.

witsend

blueskies,
First of all (((BIG HUG)))
I am at a loss for words. There is some really painful stuff said in those emails. And it is hard for me to even imagine that this is your mother saying this to you.

What I see is alot of projection. Alot. All of her stuff onto you. And I also see a total lack of any “owning up.” However significant or insignificant anything she ever did might have helped to create the family dynamics that now exist. There is nothing ever said to apologize for anything or to even have any small bit of understanding of how you might be feeling. Or a little compassion of why you feel that way.

Its what I call “circular” conversation. (for lack of what to call it) No matter what you say it is all twisted around and always comes back to you.
You can never just get a simple answer to one of your questions. Or even validation that you asked a legit question. Its like you never asked the question.

Its all attacking.

I don’t know that you can ever sort out such a painful past as far as having any KIND of ongoing relationship with your mother. I can see why you went N/C.

The only thing you can try to do is heal from the inside out. Be kind and loving to the inner child in yourself. Try to repair the damage of that little girl by mothering her yourself. I know that is easier said than done. But Kathleen talks about this alot and maybe reading some of her older post can be helpful.
I am still trying to look back in my own childhood and alcoholic father and repair that damage.
Maybe it is really a lifelong journey. I am begining to think so.
Maybe don’t so much try and “sort it out” with ED. My father is dead so I can’t even entertain the idea of sorting anything out with him anymore.
Sort it out within yourself. I would delete these emails if I were you. You don’t need them.
xxxxx

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